Re: Cassandra Affective Deprivation Disorder

[Guest guest]

As I have made mention that I'm going through therapy, this is just

another reason I doing so. To learn to communicate better when in a

relationship with someone who might either be AS or NT (or a

combination of both, as I am).

>

> Maxine Aston has done extensive research on a condition called

Cassandra

> Affective Deprivation Disorder (CADD). She is also one of my

favorite

> authors and practitioners with respect to Asperger's and intimate

> relationships.

>

> Yes, emotional deprivation is physically painful to NT's. As I

said in

> my earlier post this evening.....much to the chagrin of

AS.........NT's

> feel every single aspect of a relationship including physical,

emotional

> and intellectual. It's a package deal for NT's and if any one

element

> isn't in what we might call normal ranges, it shakes them to their

core

> and comes out as pure emotion. This goes for NT/NT relationships as

> well. My best friend threw up when she discovered her husband was

> cheating on her. It is the most perfect example of emotional to

> physical pain, I can offer that may be understood by AS and NT

alike.

>

> Regards,

> Anita 55 NT

>

>

> Please see Maxine's web site for the full text of this and many

other

> things.

>

> http://www.maxineaston.co.uk/cassandra/

> <http://www.maxineaston.co.uk/cassandra/>

>

> Everything below was written by Maxine Aston.

>

>

> " CADD is about emotional deprivation!

>

> My research strongly indicates that CADD can develop as a

consequence of

> being in an intimate relationship with an adult with Asperger

syndrome

> or a disorder that produces a low emotional/empathic quotient or

> ithymia, a Greek term meaning literally without words for

feelings

> (, and Bagby 2001).

>

> The CADD sufferer experiences similar symptoms to those of the SAD

> sufferer. However there is a more damaging effect upon the CADD

> sufferer insofar as it is another human being, they probably love,

who

> is responsible, usually unintentionally, for their emotional

> deprivation - this can be a partner or a parent.

>

> The fact that it is unintentional is only realised when the reason

for

> their behaviour is discovered either by self-diagnosis or

diagnosis by

> a professional.

>

> Living in a relationship where Asperger syndrome is undiagnosed or

> denied will often result in the non-AS partner being blamed. CADD

is

> likely to be at it's height as the non-AS partner (whether male or

> female) find themselves in a position of not being believed by

either

> the AS person or other people around them.

>

> It is these feelings of confusion, aloneness and desperation that

have

> resulted in the name Cassandra being applied to the condition.

> Emotional reciprocity, love and belonging are essential human

needs, if

> these needs are not being met and the reason why is not understood,

then

> mental and physical health may be affected. Awareness and

understanding

> can eliminate this. "

>

[Guest guest]

A plea... ?

Let us not be more careful with our words. Careful words are an indicator of careful, and often more reliable, thought, in general, and that is what this list needs more of. There is absolutely nothing wrong with passionate thought and feeling -- but please, be accurate.

When you go to the ice cream stand, you do not simply ask for ice cream. You have to tell them what flavor. There is not just one flavor of Aspergers any more than there is only one flavor of "NT". And remember that "NT" means "neurotypical".... do you know what the "typical"neurological system looks and functions like? I sure don't. It's like defining "normal". There is a line in a wonderful book by WS Penn called "Killing Time with Strangers" where (and I am terribly summarizing here -- read the book, it's really great) an Indian (read: native american) child has been called a minority and asks his mother what that is and she said, "It's what we are in here. It's what they are in the world."

When we read something, it is human nature that we take from it what what makes sense to us. The most valuable thing Maxine Aston says to me in the words below is the ...."when we don't know the cause....we get upset" part. To me it is natural for anyone who experiences something negative, not knowing the cause, to get upset. It is a general principle and a likely result. Not knowing the cause, you do not know the "cure" and this goes back to what makes us human, whether it is because we as fixers, problem solvers or simply just people who desire to control our own destiny tend to get upset by that or, if you are looking to another person for confirmation of your identity in some way or for feedback on you and it is negative, it can send you reeling or shut you down.

But general statements about "NT" and "AS" are incorrect when made in an unqualified manner. There are not two classes of people, NT and AS. There are a million points on the spectrum if the current literature is correct. There are a million nuances and varieties of Asperger Disorder -- BAskin Robbins eat your heart out -- and please let's be sensitive to that in all posts, otherwise this sounds like a tiring wave of NT this and AS that. I would certainly argue that persons on the spectrum equally "feel" every aspect of a relationship including physical, emotional and intellectual -- they just "feel" it _differently_. It is every bit as much a "package deal" for the AS, it is just a different package. And I do not agree that "we" "NT" have "normal ranges" of emotion. I have known some really, really "wacky" persons who are not on The spectrum but they are definitely on Some other planet. And i do not agree that if any one aspect is not within such "normal range" for an NT that "we" become completely emotional. I have been trained to do what I do for so long that not much any longer besides extreme situations make me completely emotional.

I do not have Aspergers Disorder as defined by what "knowledge" is out there today yet after years of mediating, lawyering, etc. my training is logic-based and my being is logic-based. I was a very emotional child but learned to channel that emotion to things like artistic endeavors. where they serve more recognizable purpose... and admittedly I use emotion in my arguments. And I know this is a list where people come to vent and that's great but it doesn't mean that emotional vents are limited to NT -- had one just the other day. Even Bill had one <g>. They are not the be all and end all of this list or of life. Probably because I hear a thousand of them every day (exaggeration of course) I am sympathetic to them but not for too long or too often. In and of themselves, they are an incomplete thing. And some words do not deserve response because they are phrased in a manipulative way or are simply self serving. If they are halfbaked they are the starting point, they are not where you hope people will end up. They are also physically painful to me at times when I am short on patience (my brain is going, "come on, already..."). So when you hear it over and over again, it is only human nature -- and i repeat, Human nature, not AS nature -- to want it to end. At this point it is also sometimes painful for me, physically, to hear illogical things because they show me a mind that is at least slightly closed and because I worry, perhaps unnecessarily, that others will hear and accept them. In order to be a mediator, also, you are trained to move people Beyond emotion and to get to consensus by appealing to logic. Not everyone can do it but perhaps some AS persons might make good lawyers and mediators for that reason.

I guess my plea is just, remember that we are all people first. We are not classes. Think of cooking ingredients... how a little of this and a little of that really changes the flavor. Not every supposed NT feels the way that is described here. Not every supposed AS feels the way that is described here. These are not even General Rules of AS/NT behavior that is described here. They are very subjective evaluations and I wish that we as the writers of them, would pledge to be more careful, more "scholarly", with our words.

In my view, what is objected to on this list time and time again -- is not "NT emotion" -- but (NT, AS or N/A) generalization.

Cassandra Affective Deprivation Disorder

Maxine Aston has done extensive research on a condition called Cassandra Affective Deprivation Disorder (CADD). She is also one of my favorite authors and practitioners with respect to Asperger's and intimate relationships. Yes, emotional deprivation is physically painful to NT's. As I said in my earlier post this evening.....much to the chagrin of AS.........NT's feel every single aspect of a relationship including physical, emotional and intellectual. It's a package deal for NT's and if any one element isn't in what we might call normal ranges, it shakes them to their core and comes out as pure emotion. This goes for NT/NT relationships as well. My best friend threw up when she discovered her husband was cheating on her. It is the most perfect example of emotional to physical pain, I can offer that may be understood by AS and NT alike.Regards,Anita 55 NT Please see Maxine's web site for the full text of this and many other things.

http://www.maxineaston.co.uk/cassandra/Everything below was written by Maxine Aston.

"CADD is about emotional deprivation! My research strongly indicates that CADD can develop as a consequence of being in an intimate relationship with an adult with Asperger syndrome or a disorder that produces a low emotional/empathic quotient or ithymia, a Greek term meaning literally without words for feelings (, and Bagby 2001).The CADD sufferer experiences similar symptoms to those of the SAD sufferer. However there is a more damaging effect upon the CADD sufferer insofar as it is another human being, they probably love, who is responsible, usually unintentionally, for their emotional deprivation - this can be a partner or a parent. The fact that it is unintentional is only realised when the reason for their behaviour is discovered either by self-diagnosis or diagnosis by a professional. Living in a relationship where Asperger syndrome is undiagnosed or denied will often result in the non-AS partner being blamed. CADD is likely to be at it's height as the non-AS partner (whether male or female) find themselves in a position of not being believed by either the AS person or other people around them. It is these feelings of confusion, aloneness and desperation that have resulted in the name Cassandra being applied to the condition.

Emotional reciprocity, love and belonging are essential human needs, if these needs are not being met and the reason why is not understood, then mental and physical health may be affected. Awareness and understanding can eliminate this."

[Guest guest]

"When we read something, it is human nature that we take from it what what makes sense to us. The most valuable thing Maxine Aston says to me in the words below is the ...."when we don't know the cause....we get upset" part. To me it is natural for anyone who experiences something negative, not knowing the cause, to get upset. It is a general principle and a likely result. Not knowing the cause, you do not know the "cure" and this goes back to what makes us human, whether it is because we as fixers, problem solvers or simply just people who desire to control our own destiny tend to get upset by that or, if you are looking to another person for confirmation of your identity in some way or for feedback on you and it is negative, it can send you reeling or shut you down."Sometimes knowing the cause doesn't change anything other than: knowing the cause. Sometimes things cannot be fixed and the frustration comes from trying to fix it anyway. Sometimes it feels good to have an idea of where one's destiny might be. Sometimes, people in situations not experienced by most other people they know come to a group looking for confirmation of what they are experiencing so it confirms a bit of identity lost by having had the experience. Sometimes accepting the truth, regardless of what it is, is the most difficult and life altering event of all.If it were possible to separate the emotion from the words and the feelings when individuals are in crisis, many wouldn't be here looking for the depth of information attempted to be discussed here. There is a huge chasm between those who have accepted and dealt with these situations in one way or another, and those who are raw and anxious. Sometimes those who are just a little less raw are able to express the empathy and/or sympathy for another that can disarm a meltdown. Sometimes those who have come to peace with their situation have an expectation that others can come to peace through the "tough love" approach. Perhaps the level of patience here is precisely the level of patience needed to navigate these relationships. If that is the case, the list can serve to perhaps place a numeric value on "degree of patience" as well as "duration of patience." The degree is very high and the duration very long....and while it is prudent to point out how uniquely different we are from one another in perhaps more subtle ways, the commonality that allows us to even begin to understand any of this remains the same. Regards,Anita

[Guest guest]

From Maxine Ashton: Emotional reciprocity, love and belonging are essential human needs, if these needs are not being met and the reason why is not understood, then mental and physical health may be affected. Awareness and understanding can eliminate this."jkz