Guest guest Posted July 28, 2000 Report Share Posted July 28, 2000 I am new to this list. I live in Lancaster, Mass. I have had symptoms for many years and recently was diagnosed with FMS. My most troubling problem is the overwhelming fatigue. Back pain is secondary. Many other lesser symptoms too. mary ===== Reilly iamredeemd@... Above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfection " (Col 3:14) __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2000 Report Share Posted July 28, 2000 Are you working with someone re your sleep, are you getting good enough sleep (no so much quanitity but quality?) I take prescription Benadrayl and its really helped my energy. Also diet is a huge factor, allergic to anything? Sensative to foods? Best to you Matty --- Reilly wrote: > I am new to this list. I live in Lancaster, Mass. > I have had symptoms for > many years and recently was diagnosed with FMS. My > most troubling problem is > the overwhelming fatigue. Back pain is secondary. > Many other lesser symptoms > too. > > mary > > ===== > Reilly > iamredeemd@... > Above all these things put on love, which is the > bond of perfection " (Col 3:14) > > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2000 Report Share Posted July 28, 2000 Welcome ! Take care & be well. Bright blessings.' Love & light. :-) -- --------- Forwarded Message --------- DATE: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 06:13:32 To: fibromyalgiacuredegroups Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2000 Report Share Posted July 28, 2000 I am on trazodone for sleep and it works very well. I am a carbo addict and haven't been real successful taming that monster. I understand that low carb diets are helpful. I am also on Effexor. Thanks! mary --- mro wrote: > Are you working with someone re your sleep, are you > getting good enough sleep (no so much quanitity but > quality?) I take prescription Benadrayl and its really > helped my energy. Also diet is a huge factor, > allergic to anything? Sensative to foods? > > Best to you Matty > > --- Reilly wrote: > > I am new to this list. I live in Lancaster, Mass. > > I have had symptoms for > > many years and recently was diagnosed with FMS. My > > most troubling problem is > > the overwhelming fatigue. Back pain is secondary. > > Many other lesser symptoms > > too. > > > > mary > > > > ===== > > Reilly > > iamredeemd@... > > Above all these things put on love, which is the > > bond of perfection " (Col 3:14) > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2002 Report Share Posted June 17, 2002 Welcome Ross, I honor you for caring for your wife. For striving to understand and research her disease and caring for her pain even if you cannot immagine it! I encourage you to approach the guaifenison protocol. It isn't easy but there is excellent support available on line and through your own reading. You mest read " the book " and most want to own one. I used a library copy on and off for two years!!! " What your doctor may not tell you about fibro..... " by Dr. St Amand and site www.guaidoc.com . I have had a lot of help from this protocol and without hard negative cyles like many have. START SLOW and LOW dose and start a diary of pain and symptom levels before your begin. It doesn't work for all but I'm a believer!! That is only a part of my survival routine other components are: * a wonderful, understanding, caring husband *support group on line and FAITH based local group *drink good filtered water 1/2body wt in # of oz per day *multi vit-min, vit C 2000, Cal/mg 1000/500, E 400u *B Complex 50 to 100 + B12 sublingual *magnesium malate *require rest of 1/2 to 1 hour in mid-day and 7 hr at nite *Low sugar, high fiber diet Ask questions and we will try to encourage you!! in Washington state Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 Hi ! Welcome to the group! You can find lots of information about various alternative approaches to treating MS by visiting http://i.webring.com/hub?ring=multiplescleros1 Check it out! With best wishes, Dudley Delany http://profiles.yahoo.com/dudley_delany Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2005 Report Share Posted May 12, 2005 > New to Group but have been reading the backlog of posts. > Just trying this out to be sure I am doing it right! > -Pat You know, Pat - reading ALL these posts can be confusing - too much info which may or may not be relevant to you personally....if you've got questions or insights, that might be the easier way to get involved... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 Casey, Depersonalization/derealization/ " oh no, now I'm going crazy " are things I have experienced. These are pretty common with anxiety. What ACT (I think) will help with is not so much how to " tolerate " these issues but how to accept them. Any struggle, whether it is depersonalization or something else, can seem to be overwhelming, or insurmountable. The thing that has helped me out the most from the book has been the tin can monster exercise. It breaks down the struggle to its components and allows me to experience what I am resisting. I find the metaphor of dropping the rope (letting go of the struggle) to be powerful. It just seems to click with me. > > Hi all, > > I just joined the group after reading the ACT workbook, I am > currently working with it and really believe this is the philosophy > I have been looking for. I am slowly trying to wean myself off an > anti-depressant medication that I have been on for over a decade, > mostly for panic and anxiety but also some associated depression. I > have been trying to do this for some time but was never successful > due to weaning much too quickly and the rebound anxiety. I don't > believe I really need this anymore, I just believe my brain is so > used to getting it that I am going to have to be patient and really > take my time. I am also a recovering alcoholic and have been sober > for 13 years, so I find the acceptance theory to be somewhat similar > to things I have learned in AA, although different in ways as well > (ways that I really like.) > > Anyway, sometimes during my anxiety I experience feelings of > depersonalization and derealization (feeling unreal, out of my body, > dreamlike, etc.)and was wondering if anyone else experienced these > things, and if so, how did you use ACT principles to tolerate them? > So far they have not been overwhelming, thank God, and I try not to > struggle and just realize that this is a perception that will pass, > but my biggest difficulty is not buying into the " thought train " and > the old story that " oh no, now I'm going crazy " , etc. Can anyone > relate to this? Would love to hear the experiences of others. > > Thanks! Casey > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 has said it all. Kudos to you for your decision to come off anti-depressants. I was just wondering if you had considered switching to prozac (if your not already taking it) to help with your taper. Prozac has the longest half life of any of the anti-depressants and is usually the easiest to come off of because of that. I came off my Prozac and benzodiazapine a couple of years ago. It is not easy but can be done. Greg > > > > Hi all, > > > > I just joined the group after reading the ACT workbook, I am > > currently working with it and really believe this is the > philosophy > > I have been looking for. I am slowly trying to wean myself off an > > anti-depressant medication that I have been on for over a decade, > > mostly for panic and anxiety but also some associated depression. > I > > have been trying to do this for some time but was never successful > > due to weaning much too quickly and the rebound anxiety. I don't > > believe I really need this anymore, I just believe my brain is so > > used to getting it that I am going to have to be patient and > really > > take my time. I am also a recovering alcoholic and have been > sober > > for 13 years, so I find the acceptance theory to be somewhat > similar > > to things I have learned in AA, although different in ways as well > > (ways that I really like.) > > > > Anyway, sometimes during my anxiety I experience feelings of > > depersonalization and derealization (feeling unreal, out of my > body, > > dreamlike, etc.)and was wondering if anyone else experienced these > > things, and if so, how did you use ACT principles to tolerate > them? > > So far they have not been overwhelming, thank God, and I try not > to > > struggle and just realize that this is a perception that will > pass, > > but my biggest difficulty is not buying into the " thought train " > and > > the old story that " oh no, now I'm going crazy " , etc. Can anyone > > relate to this? Would love to hear the experiences of others. > > > > Thanks! Casey > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 I am not so sure why you have to wean from the anti-depressants. According to what I read, some of us basically have a chronic condition: certain cells in our brain cann't replenish over many years after years, like an average person can. There is lack of certain chemicals in the brain constantly. Thanks to modern medications, we have found remedy, anti-depressants for these conditions. So we may need them all the time in order to maintain the chemical balance thus avoid relapses. In this case, anti-depressants are just like insulin for those who are insulin dependent because their pancreas can't produce any insulin, a chemical/hormorne that a regualar one can. Those people need regular insulin injection daily to maintain their life. It is just a chronic condition. Some people are usually pretty good in handling stress. In other words, they never have depressions before until certain disastrous/tragic event put them in downward spin, depression. They resort to anti-depressants. After recovery, they can consider weaning. > > Hi all, > > I just joined the group after reading the ACT workbook, I am > currently working with it and really believe this is the philosophy > I have been looking for. I am slowly trying to wean myself off an > anti-depressant medication that I have been on for over a decade, > mostly for panic and anxiety but also some associated depression. I > have been trying to do this for some time but was never successful > due to weaning much too quickly and the rebound anxiety. I don't > believe I really need this anymore, I just believe my brain is so > used to getting it that I am going to have to be patient and really > take my time. I am also a recovering alcoholic and have been sober > for 13 years, so I find the acceptance theory to be somewhat similar > to things I have learned in AA, although different in ways as well > (ways that I really like.) > > Anyway, sometimes during my anxiety I experience feelings of > depersonalization and derealization (feeling unreal, out of my body, > dreamlike, etc.)and was wondering if anyone else experienced these > things, and if so, how did you use ACT principles to tolerate them? > So far they have not been overwhelming, thank God, and I try not to > struggle and just realize that this is a perception that will pass, > but my biggest difficulty is not buying into the " thought train " and > the old story that " oh no, now I'm going crazy " , etc. Can anyone > relate to this? Would love to hear the experiences of others. > > Thanks! Casey > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 I apologize for the horribly vague reference, but I just read that there is a strong correlation between kickbacks and prescriptions of anti-depressants. I think this is scary for two reasons: 1) evidence that supports the assertion that we are over medicating instead of treating and healing is scary. 2) Some people really do need meds of various sorts, and unscrupulous practitioners make it harder to trust the good ones.keitheverest_usa wrote: I am not so sure why you have to wean from the anti-depressants. According to what I read, some of us basically have a chronic condition: certain cells in our brain cann't replenish over many years after years, like an average person can. There is lack of certain chemicals in the brain constantly. Thanks to modern medications, we have found remedy, anti-depressants for these conditions. So we may need them all the time in order to maintain the chemical balance thus avoid relapses. In this case, anti-depressants are just like insulin for those who are insulin dependent because their pancreas can't produce any insulin, a chemical/hormorne that a regualar one can. Those people need regular insulin injection daily to maintain their life. It is just a chronic condition. Some people are usually pretty good in handling stress. In other words, they never have depressions before until certain disastrous/tragic event put them in downward spin, depression. They resort to anti-depressants. After recovery, they can consider weaning. > > Hi all, > > I just joined the group after reading the ACT workbook, I am > currently working with it and really believe this is the philosophy > I have been looking for. I am slowly trying to wean myself off an > anti-depressant medication that I have been on for over a decade, > mostly for panic and anxiety but also some associated depression. I > have been trying to do this for some time but was never successful > due to weaning much too quickly and the rebound anxiety. I don't > believe I really need this anymore, I just believe my brain is so > used to getting it that I am going to have to be patient and really > take my time. I am also a recovering alcoholic and have been sober > for 13 years, so I find the acceptance theory to be somewhat similar > to things I have learned in AA, although different in ways as well > (ways that I really like.) > > Anyway, sometimes during my anxiety I experience feelings of > depersonalization and derealization (feeling unreal, out of my body, > dreamlike, etc.)and was wondering if anyone else experienced these > things, and if so, how did you use ACT principles to tolerate them? > So far they have not been overwhelming, thank God, and I try not to > struggle and just realize that this is a perception that will pass, > but my biggest difficulty is not buying into the "thought train" and > the old story that "oh no, now I'm going crazy", etc. Can anyone > relate to this? Would love to hear the experiences of others. > > Thanks! Casey > Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 I don't know where you are getting your information, but being one who had to wean off anti-depressants and having talked to hundreds who have, I think I have first hand knowledge. Telling someone that taking these drugs is just like someone who needs insulin is fiction. There is no proof that anyone has a chemical imbalance or lack of chemicals in their brain. If you disagree please post PROOF. As a matter of fact every manufacturer of anti-depressants states that they think it is because of a seratonin deficiency, but they really don't know how they work. Also only 20% of people are helped by anti-depressants which is no better then placebos. 20% is not clinicaly significant, as Steve points out in the Get out of your mind book. Please do more research before you give statements as fact. Greg > > > > Hi all, > > > > I just joined the group after reading the ACT workbook, I am > > currently working with it and really believe this is the philosophy > > I have been looking for. I am slowly trying to wean myself off an > > anti-depressant medication that I have been on for over a decade, > > mostly for panic and anxiety but also some associated depression. > I > > have been trying to do this for some time but was never successful > > due to weaning much too quickly and the rebound anxiety. I don't > > believe I really need this anymore, I just believe my brain is so > > used to getting it that I am going to have to be patient and really > > take my time. I am also a recovering alcoholic and have been sober > > for 13 years, so I find the acceptance theory to be somewhat > similar > > to things I have learned in AA, although different in ways as well > > (ways that I really like.) > > > > Anyway, sometimes during my anxiety I experience feelings of > > depersonalization and derealization (feeling unreal, out of my > body, > > dreamlike, etc.)and was wondering if anyone else experienced these > > things, and if so, how did you use ACT principles to tolerate > them? > > So far they have not been overwhelming, thank God, and I try not to > > struggle and just realize that this is a perception that will pass, > > but my biggest difficulty is not buying into the " thought train " > and > > the old story that " oh no, now I'm going crazy " , etc. Can anyone > > relate to this? Would love to hear the experiences of others. > > > > Thanks! Casey > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Hi there Could someone be so kind as to let me know the name and author of the best workbook on ACT to buy. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 The best selling and most general one is Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life (). The Happiness Trap () is also general but is not yet easily available in the US. The rest are more specific -- the ones out so far are for trauma, pain, eating disorders, anger & obsessions. Anxiety, depression, and diabetes will be out soon. More will follow in several other areas - S Steve ________________________________ From: ACT_for_the_Public on behalf of Ahimsa Sent: Tue 7/10/2007 3:06 AM To: ACT_for_the_Public Subject: Re:new to group Hi there Could someone be so kind as to let me know the name and author of the best workbook on ACT to buy. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Hi, Greg: I disagree that everest_usa was making a scientific assertion. It seems more like the presentation of a possible, alternate point-of-view. However, you do seem to be making a scientific assertion. I am not sure where you got the 20% figure. Can you please provide a citation for that? I do not remember reading it in the book. Can you please cite a page reference? You seem to want to criticize other folks' statements without providing the same standard of proof to your own. Here is a page with some brain scans to check out: http://amenclinics.com/bp/atlas/ The scans compare normal brains to the brains of some folks who were diagnosed with several different conditions, including mental illnesses. It does make a case that the drugs are helpful for some people but that they do have to be taken over a significant time frame. The drugs are not a panacea. Therapy isn't one, either. I absolutely agree that the drugs are over prescribed. Anyone who is considering getting on or off medication might find the information posted on this page, including dosing information, non-judgmental and useful: http://www.crazymeds.org I have been weaned off and on the drugs, too. It really sucks, both ways. Meditating and attempting to be physically present without judgment during all of that craziness was extremely difficult for me. It may have been even more difficult for you, Greg. I know that lots of people share a similar experience to yours and come to the same conclusions. That does not mean that it is the only valid experience, with or without scientific evidence. Many folks, including myself, find the medication necessary and helpful long-term despite the fact that the mechanism isn't completely known. This doesn't make us the evil spreaders of bad science. It doesn't make us stupid, uninformed or unaware. And it doesn't make it an easy experience. It just makes it our experience, which we deserve to share in the spirit of compassion without judgment. sj > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > I just joined the group after reading the ACT workbook, I am > > > currently working with it and really believe this is the > philosophy > > > I have been looking for. I am slowly trying to wean myself off > an > > > anti-depressant medication that I have been on for over a decade, > > > mostly for panic and anxiety but also some associated > depression. > > I > > > have been trying to do this for some time but was never > successful > > > due to weaning much too quickly and the rebound anxiety. I don't > > > believe I really need this anymore, I just believe my brain is so > > > used to getting it that I am going to have to be patient and > really > > > take my time. I am also a recovering alcoholic and have been > sober > > > for 13 years, so I find the acceptance theory to be somewhat > > similar > > > to things I have learned in AA, although different in ways as > well > > > (ways that I really like.) > > > > > > Anyway, sometimes during my anxiety I experience feelings of > > > depersonalization and derealization (feeling unreal, out of my > > body, > > > dreamlike, etc.)and was wondering if anyone else experienced > these > > > things, and if so, how did you use ACT principles to tolerate > > them? > > > So far they have not been overwhelming, thank God, and I try not > to > > > struggle and just realize that this is a perception that will > pass, > > > but my biggest difficulty is not buying into the " thought train " > > and > > > the old story that " oh no, now I'm going crazy " , etc. Can anyone > > > relate to this? Would love to hear the experiences of others. > > > > > > Thanks! Casey > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 I read findings that the SSRI drugs, after prolonged use, could actually inhibit the brain's ability to produce its own seratonin. That scared me -- the bottom line is we don't know what the long term effects are. So why not learn to deal with the world on my own chemistry? was my answer. That is what finally made me give up the Prozacs and the Paxils and turn to things like ACT. --- " sjthompson.rm " wrote: > Hi, Greg: > > I disagree that everest_usa was making a scientific > assertion. It > seems more like the presentation of a possible, > alternate > point-of-view. However, you do seem to be making a > scientific > assertion. I am not sure where you got the 20% > figure. Can you > please provide a citation for that? I do not > remember reading it in > the book. Can you please cite a page reference? > You seem to want to > criticize other folks' statements without providing > the same standard > of proof to your own. > > Here is a page with some brain scans to check out: > > http://amenclinics.com/bp/atlas/ > > The scans compare normal brains to the brains of > some folks who were > diagnosed with several different conditions, > including mental > illnesses. It does make a case that the drugs are > helpful for some > people but that they do have to be taken over a > significant time frame. > > The drugs are not a panacea. Therapy isn't one, > either. I absolutely > agree that the drugs are over prescribed. Anyone > who is considering > getting on or off medication might find the > information posted on this > page, including dosing information, non-judgmental > and useful: > http://www.crazymeds.org > > I have been weaned off and on the drugs, too. It > really sucks, both > ways. Meditating and attempting to be physically > present without > judgment during all of that craziness was extremely > difficult for me. > It may have been even more difficult for you, Greg. > I know that lots > of people share a similar experience to yours and > come to the same > conclusions. That does not mean that it is the only > valid experience, > with or without scientific evidence. > > Many folks, including myself, find the medication > necessary and > helpful long-term despite the fact that the > mechanism isn't completely > known. This doesn't make us the evil spreaders of > bad science. It > doesn't make us stupid, uninformed or unaware. And > it doesn't make it > an easy experience. It just makes it our > experience, which we deserve > to share in the spirit of compassion without > judgment. > > sj > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > I just joined the group after reading the ACT > workbook, I am > > > > currently working with it and really believe > this is the > > philosophy > > > > I have been looking for. I am slowly trying > to wean myself off > > an > > > > anti-depressant medication that I have been on > for over a decade, > > > > mostly for panic and anxiety but also some > associated > > depression. > > > I > > > > have been trying to do this for some time but > was never > > successful > > > > due to weaning much too quickly and the > rebound anxiety. I don't > > > > believe I really need this anymore, I just > believe my brain is so > > > > used to getting it that I am going to have to > be patient and > > really > > > > take my time. I am also a recovering > alcoholic and have been > > sober > > > > for 13 years, so I find the acceptance theory > to be somewhat > > > similar > > > > to things I have learned in AA, although > different in ways as > > well > > > > (ways that I really like.) > > > > > > > > Anyway, sometimes during my anxiety I > experience feelings of > > > > depersonalization and derealization (feeling > unreal, out of my > > > body, > > > > dreamlike, etc.)and was wondering if anyone > else experienced > > these > > > > things, and if so, how did you use ACT > principles to tolerate > > > them? > === message truncated === ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 > > Hi, Greg: > I disagree that everest_usa was making a scientific assertion. I Never claimed he was. >It seems more like the presentation of a possible, alternate > point-of-view. However, you do seem to be making a scientific > assertion. I never made such an assertion, I claim their science is bad and asked for proof. >I am not sure where you got the 20% figure. Can you > please provide a citation for that? I do not remember reading it in > the book. Can you please cite a page reference? PAGE 5 > You seem to want to > criticize other folks' statements without providing the same > standard of proof to your own. I am not the one claiming anti-depressants work, I only ask that proof is given for the claims that they do. > Here is a page with some brain scans to check out: > > http://amenclinics.com/bp/atlas/ > > The scans compare normal brains to the brains of some folks who were > diagnosed with several different conditions, including mental > illnesses. It does make a case that the drugs are helpful for some > people but that they do have to be taken over a significant time frame. I do apologize for the statement, " There is no proof that anyone has a chemical imbalance or lack of chemicals in their brain " I was typing to fast and didn't make the correct point. What I meant was that there is no proof that a chemical imbalance produces anxiety, depression or anything else. We do not know if the depressive or anxious thoughts produce the chemical changes or the chemical changes produce the depressive or anxious thoughts. And who's to say that if you are depressed that your brain chemistry is imbalanced. Maybe that is normal for someone who is depressed. Maybe it is just a symptom of depression, and treating a symptom instead of the supposed problem is not good medicine. It would also seem to me that if chemical changes produce depression or anxiety then there is no way ACT or any other therapy could help. The only solution would be to take medication to rebalance the chemicals in the brain. > The drugs are not a panacea. Therapy isn't one, either. I absolutely agree that the drugs are over prescribed. Anyone who is considering getting on or off medication might find the information posted on this page, including dosing information, non-judgmental and useful: http://www.crazymeds.org > > I have been weaned off and on the drugs, too. It really sucks, both > ways. Meditating and attempting to be physically present without > judgment during all of that craziness was extremely difficult for >me. > It may have been even more difficult for you, Greg. I know that lots of people share a similar experience to yours and come to the same conclusions. That does not mean that it is the only valid experience, with or without scientific evidence. I never claimed it was. > Many folks, including myself, find the medication necessary and > helpful long-term despite the fact that the mechanism isn't completely > known. This doesn't make us the evil spreaders of bad science. It > doesn't make us stupid, uninformed or unaware. And it doesn't make it > an easy experience. It just makes it our experience, which we deserve > to share in the spirit of compassion without judgment. I don't remember claiming anyone was evil. I never claimed anyone was stupid. And I certainly don't judge anyone for take medication. You may very well be right that some people do need this medication, I will not argue that. My point is simply that we don't really know what happens in the brain to create these conditions. To throw drugs at people that, as you will read on page 5, have no clinical significance seems very irresponsible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 Hi all, Thanks for the responses to my post. I will try and " tin can monster " exercise, sounds helpful. In regarding the weaning off of medication, I appreciate everyone's input. I am in no way judgemental of people on medication, I always thought I would be on meds for life. Then in the last several years, the medication has stopped working, and when I missed a dose or was even several hours late with a dose, I would experience terrible dizziness, anxiety, electrical shock-like feelings, etc. While in Mexico last fall, I developed a stomache bug and was unable to keep my meds down. As a result, I experienced the worst depression and anxiety of my life ( and I have been hospitalized 3 times), I truly thought I would die and this was with every coping skill I have honed over 15 years, it was just horrible and I felt like I was in heroin withdrawal. This was particularly painful for me as I got off a xanax addiction back in the early 90's and was med free for almost 2 years. Then when paxil came out, my psychiatrist promised me numerous times this was a non-addictive med and I would never have those problems when I decided to go off. And now I find this to be even worse. Only with super slow tapering with a liquid medication am I able to tolerate. And I know of literally thousands of people who are going through this same thing, in fact the New York Times Magazine just published a 7 page story on someone who suffered terribly trying to get off of Effexor, and they were flooded with letters to the editor of people saying the same thing. So what I am saying is not that some people don't need meds, but that these meds must be taken with extreme caution. Do we really need these things for life, or are we just experiencing withdrawal symptoms when we try to come off? If I had the right kind of therapy I believe I could have lived quite well without medication. And even if our brain chemistry is altered, many recent studies have shown that things like cognitive changes, meditation, exercise, etc. can alter your brains as well, without all the horrendous side effects and withdrawal. Anyway, I have nothing but compassion for anyone who is suffering from depression, anxiety, etc., and if meds enable you to lead a more peaceful life than I am certainly not one to judge. I may find myself unable to get off them anyway, as I have been on for 13 years, but I am trying my best and am now down to almost 75% less than my original dose and am struggling somewhat but hanging in there, largely thanks to the things I have learned from ACT! Would love to hear from anyone with similar experiences and I am glad to be part of this community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 First: Casey, on behalf of the group, sorry for hijacking your subject. Welcome to the group. Like any group of humans we sometimes get a little emotionally involved in what we do, and sometimes we discuss things in a calmer manner.Secondly: In the interest of making sure that 's work is not misrepresented, GOOYMAIYL on page 5 asserts a 20%, statistically insignificant difference in results from placebos and anti-depressant medications. I found the way it was referred to in this thread bit unclear, and I hope this clears it up.Third: Also in the interest of attempting clarifying ACT: I understand ACT to promote flexibility and functionality through a process of letting go of those fused thoughts and processes. I believe that several of the licensed practitioners who occasionally post here have pointed out that ACT does not require an "ACT consistent" litmus test for everything that someone tries out in their path to a better life. My understanding of the goal is enabling people to live lives consistent with their values. If part of someone's journey is accepting a prescription of anti-depressant medications, then we should take care not to harshly criticize that part of their journey. Drugs=bad is still fusion, and that may interfere with another person's (or your) journey to a value driven life.I do strongly encourage anyone on prescription meds or thinking about starting them to be very cautious about them. This is the entire reason that they are prescription and not "over the counter" medications. Get a second opinion or check on the research/statistics for you medications (psychological or otherwise). Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 Casey, Your story is very familiar to me, and probably to quite a few others in this group. I weaned myself off Paxil and Lexapro (at different times), and the symptoms you described are ones that I experienced as well. Someone mentioned on another thread about using Prozac as way to taper off Paxil. I didn't do it that way but it may be an option you want to consider in consultation with your doctor. I think the tin can monster exercise will help. However, in my own experience, the exercise wasn't as helpful until I developed my values (Chapters 11-13 in the book). And for me, as I'm sure it was for many others, it was the hardest thing to do. Because what I found was that I couldn't use my evaluative mind to find those values. Values are a little slippery. I think says in the book that getting in touch with the pain in our lives may be a way to find what our values are. What I found was that even after doing the tin can exercise I was often confronted with a choice: Do I allow the pain I am experiencing now stop me from doing the things that support my values, or do I continue on and bring the pain with me? > > Hi all, > > Thanks for the responses to my post. I will try and " tin can > monster " exercise, sounds helpful. > > In regarding the weaning off of medication, I appreciate everyone's > input. I am in no way judgemental of people on medication, I always > thought I would be on meds for life. Then in the last several > years, the medication has stopped working, and when I missed a dose > or was even several hours late with a dose, I would experience > terrible dizziness, anxiety, electrical shock-like feelings, etc. > While in Mexico last fall, I developed a stomache bug and was unable > to keep my meds down. As a result, I experienced the worst > depression and anxiety of my life ( and I have been hospitalized 3 > times), I truly thought I would die and this was with every coping > skill I have honed over 15 years, it was just horrible and I felt > like I was in heroin withdrawal. This was particularly painful for > me as I got off a xanax addiction back in the early 90's and was med > free for almost 2 years. Then when paxil came out, my psychiatrist > promised me numerous times this was a non-addictive med and I would > never have those problems when I decided to go off. And now I find > this to be even worse. Only with super slow tapering with a liquid > medication am I able to tolerate. And I know of literally thousands > of people who are going through this same thing, in fact the New > York Times Magazine just published a 7 page story on someone who > suffered terribly trying to get off of Effexor, and they were > flooded with letters to the editor of people saying the same thing. > > So what I am saying is not that some people don't need meds, but > that these meds must be taken with extreme caution. Do we really > need these things for life, or are we just experiencing withdrawal > symptoms when we try to come off? If I had the right kind of > therapy I believe I could have lived quite well without medication. > And even if our brain chemistry is altered, many recent studies have > shown that things like cognitive changes, meditation, exercise, etc. > can alter your brains as well, without all the horrendous side > effects and withdrawal. > > Anyway, I have nothing but compassion for anyone who is suffering > from depression, anxiety, etc., and if meds enable you to lead a > more peaceful life than I am certainly not one to judge. I may find > myself unable to get off them anyway, as I have been on for 13 > years, but I am trying my best and am now down to almost 75% less > than my original dose and am struggling somewhat but hanging in > there, largely thanks to the things I have learned from ACT! > > Would love to hear from anyone with similar experiences and I am > glad to be part of this community. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 Hi, I emailed Russ a couple of days ago complementing him on his excellent book, and he replied this morning with the following good news: " It's coming out in the USA in May 2008, published by Shambhala. However, as of next week, I will have established an online store on my website, whereby people in the USA will be able to get a copy relatively cheaply, delivered by express airmail. " The address of his website is http://www.actmindfully.com.au. Cheers, Stan Melbourne, Australia > > The best selling and most general one is Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life (). > The Happiness Trap () is also general but is not yet easily available in the US. > > The rest are more specific -- the ones out so far are for trauma, pain, > eating disorders, anger & obsessions. Anxiety, depression, and diabetes will be out soon. > More will follow in several other areas > > - S > > Steve > > > ________________________________ > > From: ACT_for_the_Public on behalf of Ahimsa > Sent: Tue 7/10/2007 3:06 AM > To: ACT_for_the_Public > Subject: Re:new to group > > > > Hi there > > Could someone be so kind as to let me know the name and author of the > best workbook on ACT to buy. > > Thank you > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 Hi Casey, sorry for being so late with my response. I am a psychiatrist working with ACT in Germany. I also prescribe medications. As is reflected in the previous discussion the jury is still out over the necessity to use medication or not. With regard to tapering or weaning off from medication I have begun to use a strategy that reduces the weekly dosage. There is no empirical evidence of this - but unfortunately there also seems to be very little research on dose reduction strategies in psychopharmacology in general. In case of great sensitivity to changes in dosage I recommend my clients, for example, to take a half dose of a medication one day in a week; then after one, two or three weeks to take a half dose two days in a week and so on. After seven (or twenty one) weeks I recommend to do the same with the remaining half dose. As I imagine this is a very soft way of dose reduction that - to speak a little metaphorically - gives the brain the opportunity readjust its biochemical working AND also helps to reduce the psychological importance of the medication. BUT, PLEASE, REMEMBER THIS IS NOT AN EVIDENCE-BASED STRATEGY it just seems to work in my daily practice. Rainer "Talking I make use of my language saw. In doing so, whether I like it or not, I am sawing into the branch I sit on. So silence would be a better choice?But how, then, could I feel the branch that gives me hold?" - Franz Mon (my translation)Dr.med. Rainer F. SonntagBehavioral Psychiatrist in Private PracticeIn der Wüste 1857462 OlpeGermanyTel +49 (0)2761 96670Fax +49 (0)2761 966767Email raisonn@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 > > Hi Casey, > > sorry for being so late with my response. I am a psychiatrist working with > ACT in Germany. I also prescribe medications. As is reflected in the previous > discussion the jury is still out over the necessity to use medication or > not. > > With regard to tapering or weaning off from medication I have begun to use a > strategy that reduces the weekly dosage. There is no empirical evidence of > this - but unfortunately there also seems to be very little research on dose > reduction strategies in psychopharmacology in general. > > In case of great sensitivity to changes in dosage I recommend my clients, > for example, to take a half dose of a medication one day in a week; then after > one, two or three weeks to take a half dose two days in a week and so on. > After seven (or twenty one) weeks I recommend to do the same with the remaining > half dose. > > As I imagine this is a very soft way of dose reduction that - to speak a > little metaphorically - gives the brain the opportunity readjust its biochemical > working AND also helps to reduce the psychological importance of the > medication. > > BUT, PLEASE, REMEMBER THIS IS NOT AN EVIDENCE-BASED STRATEGY it just seems > to work in my daily practice. > > Rainer > > > > > " Talking I make use of my language saw. > In doing so, whether I like it or not, I am sawing into the branch I sit on. > So silence would be a better choice? > But how, then, could I feel the branch that gives me hold? " > - Franz Mon (my translation) > > > Dr.med. Rainer F. Sonntag > Behavioral Psychiatrist in Private Practice > In der Wüste 18 > 57462 Olpe > Germany > > Tel +49 (0)2761 96670 > Fax +49 (0)2761 966767 > Email raisonn@... > Hi Rainer, Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I am weaning very slowly, using liquid paxil, and dropping in 0.5 mg every month or so. I have been on paxil for 13 years and am very sensitive to drops, so this was a way that was suggested to me. We will see how it goes, I will hold on to your suggestion for future reference! That is exciting that you are using ACT in your practice, I live in New Jersey and was wondering if you knew anyone in this area who does the same? I would love to find someone. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 I'll share my thoughts from the POV of a daughter. My mother struggled with depression and anxiety, and just general relationship dysfunction throughout my childhood and teen years. She was very distant, angry, and just unavailable. She was very hard on me. This was painful, and gave me some hangups with my self esteem and relationships. I'm now 29. My mother has just recently realized she herself has OCD, and has also battled depression off and on her whole life. She has already made some major changes just from becoming aware of what has been going on with her. I completely forgive her for any hurt or pain she caused me. I let go fo the judgments, the preconceptions of how it " should " have been. I know that all that ever really matters is " now " . Nothing is ever perfect. Whether or not they had a perfectly " normal " childhood or not, they would still have struggles to overcome just b/c they're human. I know several peope who had an ideal childhood, but are very unhappy. People who had everything go " right " in their lives, yet still struggle. I had to take responsiblity for what I was going to do with my life, and make the changes I wanted to make regardless of how my parents were. In some ways it has made me a much stronger and more compassionate person. I would recommend the book " The Power Of Now " by Eckhart Tolle. Also try to recognize your judgmental thinking as just that, judgmental thinking. It doesn't really *mean* anything. Accept your sadness and regret, make space for it. Accept that strong urge you have to hold onto the past and guilt. There's nothing to figure out, just accept what is and don't resist it. Then you can make space for that also, and be free to do what you can do NOW, to create the life you want to live. When you are caught up in this imaginary world (b/c it's no longer a reality, only now is) of " past " or " future " or " how it should've been " you are robbing yourself from the NOW and what could be at this very moment. > > I am just going to jump right in and ask for thoughts on my most > painful, chronic, and pervasive problem I just can't find a solution to. > This is first on my suffering inventory list. This gives me the most > excruciating, unbearable pain. I believe that ACT will work with all my > other problems. I have already made many gains with cognitive therapy, > but this is the major one and I can't seem to get it figured out. I go > around in circles and get nowhere. > > I have bipolar disorder, but wasn't diagnosed until about 4 years ago. > My three children, 23, 18, and 16 had to grow up with my yelling, > fussing, black and white thinking, irrationality, depression (which was > most of the time), bad relationship with their dad. It has caused > obvious pain in THEIR lives. When I think of them, I hurt. I can't > imagine HOW to accept this type of pain when each time I think of them, > or see them, I know they are the way they are because of me. I want so > badly to fix them, but I can't. > I have been told by counselors that when my children see me > successfully dealing with my problems, they will see how to deal with > their own. The truth is, > They MAY choose to deal with their pain. > But there is also the possibility that they never will. > If they deal with their pain and enjoy a great life, they will still > have sad memories of their childhood. They will have psychological pain > that I caused. That just makes me so sad. > If they don't deal with their pain, they will lead a miserable life. > Either way, I am still responsible. This is literally crippling me. > Every other problem that I listed on the inventory can be dealt with > using ACT. I have no idea how to deal with this. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 > If they don't deal with their pain, they will lead a > miserable life. Either way, I am still responsible. > This is literally crippling me. Every other problem > that I listed on the inventory can be dealt with > using ACT. I have no idea how to deal with this. I am an adult child who suffered from the mistakes of a parent. So I am very familiar with this theme of guilt and pain from the reverse side, of being the " wronged " party. Does your pain need to go away? What if pain was something that added meaning to life? If it made us not less powerful but more powerful? In ACT terms, flip the pain over and see the values that cause it. There is deep caring here, otherwise you wouldn't hurt. Don't immediately look for a " logical " answer as to " what to do " with that caring. Find the caring first. Then ask, what does caring suggest can be done today? In your story " I am responsible " seems to mean " I am helpless. " What if it meant, " I can respond? " What if blaming yourself is actually a way not to take responsibility, but to hide from it? What if forgiving yourself were a way not to hide from responsibility, but to take it? In your story there also seems to be a number of assumptions, such as " Life should never include serious pain " and " No one should ever be forgiven for making a mistake. " Some other assumptions might be that " Serious pain is often part of living, " and " Forgiveness and responsibility are okay. " Can any of these assumptions be proved true or false? If not, what might that suggest about choosing among them? If you insist on guilt, what is the difference to the universe? Who or what is keeping score here? What stake does this scorekeeper have in keeping the status quo? People may seek to reassure you that if you forgive yourself, your kids will come around. This seems logical. But as you say, it might never happen. Is it more important to be logical or to be alive? Good luck--my heart is with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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