Guest guest Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 > Hi Gang, > > Just wanted to relate my experiences over the last few months and > maybe get some feedback. Hi Simone - Don't worry, you are not alone - I too have " ACT overload " and flip through this book & that book. Every other week I seem to discover some new thing that is really a standard part of ACT, I just " forgot " it. My mind tells me " ACT has failed, you're doomed! " Thanks, mind. What I am doing right now - 1) Although mentioned in another of his excellent posts that he does his mindfulness practice in an impromptu manner, I do find that I need to also schedule regular " appointments " with myself for certain kinds of ACT work that need doing - a couple of times a week is good. 2) It is easy for me to get back into a reason-giving head-trip - I do this often - & so some of my weekly work needs to be in this area. Regrets, confusion, avoided worries, etc. all tie into reasons very often, and the reasons sound really credible, absolutely convincing. The question here is always something like, " Okay, say it's true - does buying this reason help me go where I want to go? " Ignore the shriek from your mind of BUT IT'S REALLY TRRUUEEEEE ... let go & see what happens. I should add that the dynamic of freely chosen vs. " should, must " etc. is very compelling to me right now. Because values work can easily lead to a sense of feeling coerced - and thus becoming rigid - that is one of the barriers. And so defusion is needed often and often for a fresh breath of air ... & for a renewed & flexible commitment. good luck & take care - Randy P.S. You might try a self-forgiveness meditation ... to gently let go of the comfort of the " twit " thoughts ... I so often cling to such thoughts myself as they reassure me all is in good order in heaven and earth. There is a wonderful exercise of this sort in a Levine book on death & dying - I am reluctant to post it because of potential copyright issues, but would be glad to send it to you off-list if you are interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 Dear fellow Gold MedalistI can really identify with "I managed to defuse only to pick them up again and again. I felt a wreck. Its uncertainty that I cannot stand - I'm still struggling with control". Just a few questions prompted by my own experience:1. What is the function of your defusion? Do you by any chance defuse with a purpose of eliminating some thoughts? 2. Who/What is telling you that you are feeling a wreck? Is your mind judging the sensations?3. Who/What is telling you that you cannot stand uncertainty? Is this just another story that your mind produced?4. Who is struggling? You or your mind? Is your awareness/observing self struggling? I am sharing this because yet again (and again) I've fallen into trap of using acceptance to control, defusion to eliminate, leaning into sensations to lessen them, etc... and when I realised what I was doing, it felt as if I was facing a brick wall... where to from here??? If this is not going to "work" what else will??? Again, notice the mind at play, trying to solve the "problem". Like you, I buy books, I read articles, read, read, read, but it all comes down to one thing, the thing I like to avoid - experiencing. My mind tells me I am far off from letting go of control and that perhaps I will never be able to do it, so I defuse again and again and again and again by observing these thoughts from "the observing self perspective" looking at them as they come and go, I focus on here and now, the person in front, the sounds, the smells, the purpose of being wherever I am, the objects around me, and the value I hold for living in here and now, with whatever thoughts and sensations this here and now brings with itself. Health uncertainties are often worrying and many, many other people worry over these, in their own different ways (but our mind compares us only with those who don't seem to worry as much). Is there any space for your worry to be, without trying to use this space to eliminate the worry? Can this worry come along for a ride while you go about your day doing things that matter to you?BestK Anatomy of a worry. Hi Gang, Just wanted to relate my experiences over the last few months and maybe get some feedback. To cut a long story short I went to the Doctors with 'women's troubles' - and I have had to undergo a series of tests. At each stage of these investigations I was thinking the worst, or trying to rationalise, but feeling so vulnerable and weak. One day watched my thoughts bury me, re-marry my husband, leave my children motherless, never see them grow up.... and on and on and on. It felt so real this fear. My mind was like a herd of wild horses that would not be tamed. Now, I have been doing ACT for some time so I was aware of what I was doing but these thoughts seemed to have a life of their own - a force that I could not control ( aha! control) I managed to defuse only to pick them up again and again. I felt a wreck. Its uncertainty that I cannot stand - I'm still struggling with control - wanted everything ordered, calm, manageable. I work with three books, GOOYMAIYL, The happiness Trap and more recently the ACT workbook for anxiety. All great books. But I think I may have ACT overload - I have read all the books but never seem to find the time to get down to the exercises in detail - and am never sure which ones I should be doing. I love the CD in the workbook - that helped me a great deal. I think what I need is an exercise for dealing with uncertainty! Any suggestions? I feel such a twit getting myself into a state over the content of my mind - after all the work that I have been doing. My sisters husband finds out today if his cancer has returned - he is so positive, focused and determined to live a full life. I feel ashamed of my small, fearful and selfish self. Why are some of us like this? I'm so frustrated with myself! Sorry - needed to get that off my chest! Simone ( Gold Medalist Olympic worrier) Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 Remember the line from the movie Forest Gump … Mamma told me that “life is like a box of chocolates…you never know what you’re going to get.” That line resonates with me. Our minds like certainty and will be at work 24/7 making sense of our experience. This can give us the illusion of certainty, as when it paints a dark picture of a future that has yet to be – one thought brush stroke after another. That picture may seem as real as the shoes on your feet, but it is not – it is a bunch of words and images. What is certain is that everything changes and that the future is unknown. No amount of thinking will change that future. You probably know that already. Our minds love to pull us into futures that have yet to be or pasts that once were. Just the other day I learned that my mother of 66 years (and otherwise in good health) developed sudden weakness in the legs, is unable to walk, and has lost sensation in her groin and legs too, amounting to loss of bowel and bladder control. She’s been through the mill of tests and nobody seems to know what is going on. She didn’t ask for this, but it happened. Now she is doing what she can to take care of herself. She’s now in a rehab facility and hasn’t been home in almost a month. Just the other day, she said told my father that “life is short.” It might be helpful to see if you can lean into the natural uncertainty of life and perhaps allow yourself a bit of time to just sit with that during some mindfulness practice. Notice that the thoughts you have here are all projections into a future that has yet to be. Just thoughts creating the illusion of a certain future, like a time machine that pulls you out of the certain present – just where you are. My mother appears focused and positive, but I also know that deep down she is scared. I don’t see or experience her fear, but if I could get inside her head and heart, I’m almost certain that I’d find fear, uncertainty, worry, and many other experiences there too. There is no shame in that. She has years of life ahead, judging by most standards, and in this moment of despair I am my family are given an opportunity to care for her and do what we can to be there for her. The thought and feelings you have are not the enemy – you are not broken for feeling and thinking what you feel and think. See too how your mind throws judgment into the mix – shame and selfish are just two of them you mention. Just thoughts…more blah, blah, blah… So, perhaps the thing to do it to just take it slow. Pick an exercise or two that seems to resonate with you and let your experience with it be your guide. Then, you can move on to something else. Making time for practice is important I think – the skills you water and allow to grow with practice develop over time. It’s like riding a bicycle. That time is time for you – taking care of you. You allow yourself some room to do something for you,. As you do something new, you risk getting something new. The outcome, even here, is uncertain. You might try the giving and receiving exercise on the CD in The Mindfulness & Acceptance Workbook for Anxiety. You can make it your own by doing the exercise with uncertainty in mind, for those that suffer about and through the uncertainty. Thanks again for sharing Simone. You are not alone. We are all in the same soup. Peace -john P. Forsyth, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Psychology Director of Clinical Training Director, Anxiety Disorders Research Program University at Albany, SUNY Department of Psychology Social Science 369 1400 Washington Avenue Albany, NY 12222 Ph: Fax: email: forsyth@... Web www.albany.edu/~forsyth www.acceptanceandmindfulness.com www.contextualpsychology.org Web Blog on Mindfulness and Acceptance for Anxiety http://mindfulness-and-anxiety.blogspot.com/ Undergraduates interested in a research position in my lab can apply at: www.albany.edu/~forsyth/undergradra.html From: ACT_for_the_Public [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of adrianandboo Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 7:24 AM To: ACT_for_the_Public Subject: Anatomy of a worry. Hi Gang, Just wanted to relate my experiences over the last few months and maybe get some feedback. To cut a long story short I went to the Doctors with 'women's troubles' - and I have had to undergo a series of tests. At each stage of these investigations I was thinking the worst, or trying to rationalise, but feeling so vulnerable and weak. One day watched my thoughts bury me, re-marry my husband, leave my children motherless, never see them grow up.... and on and on and on. It felt so real this fear. My mind was like a herd of wild horses that would not be tamed. Now, I have been doing ACT for some time so I was aware of what I was doing but these thoughts seemed to have a life of their own - a force that I could not control ( aha! control) I managed to defuse only to pick them up again and again. I felt a wreck. Its uncertainty that I cannot stand - I'm still struggling with control - wanted everything ordered, calm, manageable. I work with three books, GOOYMAIYL, The happiness Trap and more recently the ACT workbook for anxiety. All great books. But I think I may have ACT overload - I have read all the books but never seem to find the time to get down to the exercises in detail - and am never sure which ones I should be doing. I love the CD in the workbook - that helped me a great deal. I think what I need is an exercise for dealing with uncertainty! Any suggestions? I feel such a twit getting myself into a state over the content of my mind - after all the work that I have been doing. My sisters husband finds out today if his cancer has returned - he is so positive, focused and determined to live a full life. I feel ashamed of my small, fearful and selfish self. Why are some of us like this? I'm so frustrated with myself! Sorry - needed to get that off my chest! Simone ( Gold Medalist Olympic worrier) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 Dear - The term "lean into" has turned out to be a trap for me as I seem to overdo it. I have fed myself to the tiger on several occasions, thinking that I was leaning into whatever. My leaning into tends toward going down every rabbit hole to thoroughly explore every possible catastrophic outcome, an amygdala's dream. These adventures have lasted for several days to up to a week. My therapist and I have figured this out and I now recognize what I've been doing. But I need some clarification on what "leaning into" means. I've dug through all of the books for the answer. This seems to be one of the riddles of ACT. One of the things I've found especially helpful from this listserv are the effective "conversations" folks have with their mind, such as this post from Parks http://by113w.bay113.mail.live.com/mail/mail.aspx? & ip=10.1.106.211 & d=d939 & mf=a0 Any enlightenment on "leaning into" would be appreciated. Thanks for taking the time to make your personal posts. Very supporting to know a "guru" is watching over us. Bill To: ACT_for_the_Public From: Forsyth@...Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 08:51:53 -0400Subject: RE: Anatomy of a worry. Remember the line from the movie Forest Gump … Mamma told me that “life is like a box of chocolates…you never know what you’re going to get.” That line resonates with me. Our minds like certainty and will be at work 24/7 making sense of our experience. This can give us the illusion of certainty, as when it paints a dark picture of a future that has yet to be – one thought brush stroke after another. That picture may seem as real as the shoes on your feet, but it is not – it is a bunch of words and images. What is certain is that everything changes and that the future is unknown. No amount of thinking will change that future. You probably know that already. Our minds love to pull us into futures that have yet to be or pasts that once were. Just the other day I learned that my mother of 66 years (and otherwise in good health) developed sudden weakness in the legs, is unable to walk, and has lost sensation in her groin and legs too, amounting to loss of bowel and bladder control. She’s been through the mill of tests and nobody seems to know what is going on. She didn’t ask for this, but it happened. Now she is doing what she can to take care of herself. She’s now in a rehab facility and hasn’t been home in almost a month. Just the other day, she said told my father that “life is short.” It might be helpful to see if you can lean into the natural uncertainty of life and perhaps allow yourself a bit of time to just sit with that during some mindfulness practice. Notice that the thoughts you have here are all projections into a future that has yet to be. Just thoughts creating the illusion of a certain future, like a time machine that pulls you out of the certain present – just where you are. My mother appears focused and positive, but I also know that deep down she is scared. I don’t see or experience her fear, but if I could get inside her head and heart, I’m almost certain that I’d find fear, uncertainty, worry, and many other experiences there too. There is no shame in that. She has years of life ahead, judging by most standards, and in this moment of despair I am my family are given an opportunity to care for her and do what we can to be there for her. The thought and feelings you have are not the enemy – you are not broken for feeling and thinking what you feel and think. See too how your mind throws judgment into the mix – shame and selfish are just two of them you mention. Just thoughts…more blah, blah, blah… So, perhaps the thing to do it to just take it slow. Pick an exercise or two that seems to resonate with you and let your experience with it be your guide. Then, you can move on to something else. Making time for practice is important I think – the skills you water and allow to grow with practice develop over time. It’s like riding a bicycle. That time is time for you – taking care of you. You allow yourself some room to do something for you,. As you do something new, you risk getting something new. The outcome, even here, is uncertain. You might try the giving and receiving exercise on the CD in The Mindfulness & Acceptance Workbook for Anxiety. You can make it your own by doing the exercise with uncertainty in mind, for those that suffer about and through the uncertainty. Thanks again for sharing Simone. You are not alone. We are all in the same soup. Peace -john P. Forsyth, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Psychology Director of Clinical Training Director, Anxiety Disorders Research Program University at Albany, SUNY Department of Psychology Social Science 369 1400 Washington Avenue Albany, NY 12222 Ph: Fax: email: forsythalbany (DOT) edu Web www.albany.edu/~forsyth www.acceptanceandmindfulness.com www.contextualpsychology.org Web Blog on Mindfulness and Acceptance for Anxiety http://mindfulness-and-anxiety.blogspot.com/ Undergraduates interested in a research position in my lab can apply at: www.albany.edu/~forsyth/undergradra.html From: ACT_for_the_Public [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of adrianandbooSent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 7:24 AMTo: ACT_for_the_Public Subject: Anatomy of a worry. Hi Gang,Just wanted to relate my experiences over the last few months and maybe get some feedback.To cut a long story short I went to the Doctors with 'women's troubles' - and I have had to undergo a series of tests. At each stage of these investigations I was thinking the worst, or trying to rationalise, but feeling so vulnerable and weak. One day watched my thoughts bury me, re-marry my husband, leave my children motherless, never see them grow up.... and on and on and on. It felt so real this fear. My mind was like a herd of wild horses that would not be tamed. Now, I have been doing ACT for some time so I was aware of what I was doing but these thoughts seemed to have a life of their own - a force that I could not control ( aha! control) I managed to defuse only to pick them up again and again. I felt a wreck. Its uncertainty that I cannot stand - I'm still struggling with control - wanted everything ordered, calm, manageable. I work with three books, GOOYMAIYL, The happiness Trap and more recently the ACT workbook for anxiety. All great books. But I think I may have ACT overload - I have read all the books but never seem to find the time to get down to the exercises in detail - and am never sure which ones I should be doing. I love the CD in the workbook - that helped me a great deal. I think what I need is an exercise for dealing with uncertainty! Any suggestions?I feel such a twit getting myself into a state over the content of my mind - after all the work that I have been doing. My sisters husband finds out today if his cancer has returned - he is so positive, focused and determined to live a full life. I feel ashamed of my small, fearful and selfish self. Why are some of us like this? I'm so frustrated with myself!Sorry - needed to get that off my chest!Simone ( Gold Medalist Olympic worrier) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 Hi Simone, Oh, uncertainty is my favorite discomfort -- the one I dislike the most! Found out that resisting my discomfort was even MORE uncomfortable, so one day I decided to look for the very worst part of the uncertainty--to find the most painful place and look it in the eye, or poke it to see what it was like. It was very interesting and since I'm writing this, I survived it in pretty good shape--it's apparently not a dangerous thing to do. Good luck! Madelon > > Hi Gang, > > Just wanted to relate my experiences over the last few months and > maybe get some feedback. > To cut a long story short I went to the Doctors with 'women's > troubles' - and I have had to undergo a series of tests. At each > stage of these investigations I was thinking the worst, or trying to > rationalise, but feeling so vulnerable and weak. One day watched my > thoughts bury me, re-marry my husband, leave my children motherless, > never see them grow up.... and on and on and on. It felt so real this > fear. My mind was like a herd of wild horses that would not be tamed. > Now, I have been doing ACT for some time so I was aware of what I was > doing but these thoughts seemed to have a life of their own - a force > that I could not control ( aha! control) I managed to defuse only to > pick them up again and again. I felt a wreck. Its uncertainty that I > cannot stand - I'm still struggling with control - wanted everything > ordered, calm, manageable. I work with three books, GOOYMAIYL, The > happiness Trap and more recently the ACT workbook for anxiety. All > great books. But I think I may have ACT overload - I have read all > the books but never seem to find the time to get down to the > exercises in detail - and am never sure which ones I should be doing. > I love the CD in the workbook - that helped me a great deal. I think > what I need is an exercise for dealing with uncertainty! Any > suggestions? > I feel such a twit getting myself into a state over the content of my > mind - after all the work that I have been doing. My sisters husband > finds out today if his cancer has returned - he is so positive, > focused and determined to live a full life. I feel ashamed of my > small, fearful and selfish self. Why are some of us like this? I'm so > frustrated with myself! > > Sorry - needed to get that off my chest! > > Simone ( Gold Medalist Olympic worrier) > > > > ------------------------------------ > > For other ACT materials and list serves see www.contextualpsychology.org > > If you do not wish to belong to ACT_for_the_Public, you may > unsubscribe by sending an email to > ACT_for_the_Public-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 Hi Bill – Here’s my sense of leaning into. It means to touch what is there instead of the habit of pulling away, hardening, struggling, or shutting down. This leaning in cuts against the grain of the old habits of avoidance. You approach with curiosity and some space to allow your experience to be exactly as it is. This is something you can chose to do, and this choice can have an odd effect. When you don’t resist your discomfort, it may not stick around as long. More importantly, leaning into it as it is means that you are no longer fighting it, struggling with it. This defuses the power of anxiety to pull you out of your life. I don’t think of leaning into as exploring everything there is to experience about anxiety. To me, this sounds like drowning in it. The goal is not to be a masochist, but to be lighter and gentler with your discomfort when it shows up and then allowing it to recede as some other aspect of your experience emerges on the stage. If there is one thing to notice here it is probably the urge to lean out, harden, shut down, pull away, or cut and run. These natural impulses are the fuel for anxious suffering and if you can learn to notice them and let them be, you are well on your way to doing something radical and new. This may give you other options. One last thing … I am a person just like you. I get stuck now and then too. I don’t think of myself as a Guru, and hope you don’t think of me as one J. I’m just a human being trying to do the best that I can. A fellow traveler of this journey we call a life. You are on that path too. We all can learn something from one another. I’ll do my best to help where I can. We are all in this together, each faced with the challenges of being a human being, each faced with the challenges of living well. Don’t forget that when you (like me) face pain and discomfort as you step in directions that you want to go. Peace -j P. Forsyth, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Psychology Director of Clinical Training Director, Anxiety Disorders Research Program University at Albany, SUNY Department of Psychology Social Science 369 1400 Washington Avenue Albany, NY 12222 Ph: Fax: email: forsyth@... Web www.albany.edu/~forsyth www.acceptanceandmindfulness.com www.contextualpsychology.org Web Blog on Mindfulness and Acceptance for Anxiety http://mindfulness-and-anxiety.blogspot.com/ Undergraduates interested in a research position in my lab can apply at: www.albany.edu/~forsyth/undergradra.html From: ACT_for_the_Public [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of BILL CAMERON Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 10:21 AM To: act_for_the_public Subject: RE: Anatomy of a worry. Dear - The term " lean into " has turned out to be a trap for me as I seem to overdo it. I have fed myself to the tiger on several occasions, thinking that I was leaning into whatever. My leaning into tends toward going down every rabbit hole to thoroughly explore every possible catastrophic outcome, an amygdala's dream. These adventures have lasted for several days to up to a week. My therapist and I have figured this out and I now recognize what I've been doing. But I need some clarification on what " leaning into " means. I've dug through all of the books for the answer. This seems to be one of the riddles of ACT. One of the things I've found especially helpful from this listserv are the effective " conversations " folks have with their mind, such as this post from Parks http://by113w.bay113.mail.live.com/mail/mail.aspx? & ip=10.1.106.211 & d=d939 & mf=a0 Any enlightenment on " leaning into " would be appreciated. Thanks for taking the time to make your personal posts. Very supporting to know a " guru " is watching over us. Bill To: ACT_for_the_Public From: Forsyth@... Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 08:51:53 -0400 Subject: RE: Anatomy of a worry. Remember the line from the movie Forest Gump … Mamma told me that “life is like a box of chocolates…you never know what you’re going to get.” That line resonates with me. Our minds like certainty and will be at work 24/7 making sense of our experience. This can give us the illusion of certainty, as when it paints a dark picture of a future that has yet to be – one thought brush stroke after another. That picture may seem as real as the shoes on your feet, but it is not – it is a bunch of words and images. What is certain is that everything changes and that the future is unknown. No amount of thinking will change that future. You probably know that already. Our minds love to pull us into futures that have yet to be or pasts that once were. Just the other day I learned that my mother of 66 years (and otherwise in good health) developed sudden weakness in the legs, is unable to walk, and has lost sensation in her groin and legs too, amounting to loss of bowel and bladder control. She’s been through the mill of tests and nobody seems to know what is going on. She didn’t ask for this, but it happened. Now she is doing what she can to take care of herself. She’s now in a rehab facility and hasn’t been home in almost a month. Just the other day, she said told my father that “life is short.” It might be helpful to see if you can lean into the natural uncertainty of life and perhaps allow yourself a bit of time to just sit with that during some mindfulness practice. Notice that the thoughts you have here are all projections into a future that has yet to be. Just thoughts creating the illusion of a certain future, like a time machine that pulls you out of the certain present – just where you are. My mother appears focused and positive, but I also know that deep down she is scared. I don’t see or experience her fear, but if I could get inside her head and heart, I’m almost certain that I’d find fear, uncertainty, worry, and many other experiences there too. There is no shame in that. She has years of life ahead, judging by most standards, and in this moment of despair I am my family are given an opportunity to care for her and do what we can to be there for her. The thought and feelings you have are not the enemy – you are not broken for feeling and thinking what you feel and think. See too how your mind throws judgment into the mix – shame and selfish are just two of them you mention. Just thoughts…more blah, blah, blah… So, perhaps the thing to do it to just take it slow. Pick an exercise or two that seems to resonate with you and let your experience with it be your guide. Then, you can move on to something else. Making time for practice is important I think – the skills you water and allow to grow with practice develop over time. It’s like riding a bicycle. That time is time for you – taking care of you. You allow yourself some room to do something for you,. As you do something new, you risk getting something new. The outcome, even here, is uncertain. You might try the giving and receiving exercise on the CD in The Mindfulness & Acceptance Workbook for Anxiety. You can make it your own by doing the exercise with uncertainty in mind, for those that suffer about and through the uncertainty. Thanks again for sharing Simone. You are not alone. We are all in the same soup. Peace -john P. Forsyth, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Psychology Director of Clinical Training Director, Anxiety Disorders Research Program University at Albany, SUNY Department of Psychology Social Science 369 1400 Washington Avenue Albany, NY 12222 Ph: Fax: email: forsyth@... Web www.albany.edu/~forsyth www.acceptanceandmindfulness.com www.contextualpsychology.org Web Blog on Mindfulness and Acceptance for Anxiety http://mindfulness-and-anxiety.blogspot.com/ Undergraduates interested in a research position in my lab can apply at: www.albany.edu/~forsyth/undergradra.html From: ACT_for_the_Public [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of adrianandboo Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 7:24 AM To: ACT_for_the_Public Subject: Anatomy of a worry. Hi Gang, Just wanted to relate my experiences over the last few months and maybe get some feedback. To cut a long story short I went to the Doctors with 'women's troubles' - and I have had to undergo a series of tests. At each stage of these investigations I was thinking the worst, or trying to rationalise, but feeling so vulnerable and weak. One day watched my thoughts bury me, re-marry my husband, leave my children motherless, never see them grow up.... and on and on and on. It felt so real this fear. My mind was like a herd of wild horses that would not be tamed. Now, I have been doing ACT for some time so I was aware of what I was doing but these thoughts seemed to have a life of their own - a force that I could not control ( aha! control) I managed to defuse only to pick them up again and again. I felt a wreck. Its uncertainty that I cannot stand - I'm still struggling with control - wanted everything ordered, calm, manageable. I work with three books, GOOYMAIYL, The happiness Trap and more recently the ACT workbook for anxiety. All great books. But I think I may have ACT overload - I have read all the books but never seem to find the time to get down to the exercises in detail - and am never sure which ones I should be doing. I love the CD in the workbook - that helped me a great deal. I think what I need is an exercise for dealing with uncertainty! Any suggestions? I feel such a twit getting myself into a state over the content of my mind - after all the work that I have been doing. My sisters husband finds out today if his cancer has returned - he is so positive, focused and determined to live a full life. I feel ashamed of my small, fearful and selfish self. Why are some of us like this? I'm so frustrated with myself! Sorry - needed to get that off my chest! Simone ( Gold Medalist Olympic worrier) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 Bill - My two cents on " leaning into " - It's really a metaphor for " willingness " - so just look up " willingness " in pretty much any ACT book and you will find out more. Other metaphors that are often used for willingness are " embracing " or " inhaling " scary content, etc. As says, the idea is to move toward rather than away from. Another metaphor I like is how a rock climber learns to climb up steep faces - the first instinct we all have is to hug the rock, but this works against you - it's actually safer and more powerful to keep your upper body _away_ from the rock face - which we can also think of as leaning out space - into the void - into our fear of falling. Strange stuff. However, I do think it's important to know what defusion feels like first - to have played around with different techniques for defusion. Once you get the hang of that, then you can try leaning in & leaning in can itself become a form of defusion. But without knowing what defusion feels like first, I think there is indeed a danger of falling down the rabbit hole into some heavy-duty fusion - of getting sucked into mind games in a big way. --Randy > > Hi Bill - Here's my sense of leaning into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 Hi Randy, I think a regular appointment with myself as therapist would be a good idea. A bit of qaulity ACT time rather than a bit here and there. I'll have a go at that. I think that I find the ambiguity of life so hard to handle - sometimes I think I would like to run off and join a convent! But there is no escaping life is there. You either live it or you don't. Without going into gory details my doctor says that my health concern is 'cureable' and 'quite common' so all my wild, distaster impending thoughts did nothing except exhaust me. But even now my mind is whispering away that maybe they have got it wrong that my symptoms are similar to those of something terminal. Whats so great about life that we all hold on so tightly to it anyway? Hurricans, earthquakes, famines wars, sheeeeesh! But I do know why the caged bird sings ( sorry Maya Angelou) because despite all the crap there is something very sweet and good about life. I'm going on holiday next week. Driving through France, I'm a bit anxious about that as well! What if my husband dies and leaves me alone in the middle of France? Hahahahahahaha! Thank you mind - I'm off to meditate, we'll play later. Thanks Randy - when you gonna write that book? Simone x Re: Anatomy of a worry. > Hi Gang,> > Just wanted to relate my experiences over the last few months and > maybe get some feedback.Hi Simone - Don't worry, you are not alone - I too have "ACT overload" and flipthrough this book & that book. Every other week I seem to discoversome new thing that is really a standard part of ACT, I just "forgot" it. My mind tells me "ACT has failed, you're doomed!" Thanks, mind.What I am doing right now - 1) Although mentioned in another of his excellent posts that he does his mindfulness practice in an impromptu manner, I dofind that I need to also schedule regular "appointments" with myselffor certain kinds of ACT work that need doing - a couple of times aweek is good. 2) It is easy for me to get back into a reason-giving head-trip -I do this often - & so some of my weekly work needs to be in this area. Regrets, confusion, avoided worries, etc. all tie intoreasons very often, and the reasons sound really credible, absolutely convincing. The question here is always somethinglike, "Okay, say it's true - does buying this reason help me go where I want to go?" Ignore the shriek from your mind of BUT IT'S REALLY TRRUUEEEEE .... let go & see what happens.I should add that the dynamic of freely chosen vs. "should, must" etc. is very compelling to me right now.. Because values work can easily lead to a sense of feeling coerced - and thus becoming rigid - that is one of the barriers. And so defusion is needed often and often for a fresh breath of air ... & for a renewed & flexible commitment. good luck & take care -Randy P.S. You might try a self-forgiveness meditation ... to gently let go of the comfort of the "twit" thoughts ... I so often cling to such thoughts myself as they reassureme all is in good order in heaven and earth. There is a wonderful exercise of this sort in a Levine book on death & dying - I am reluctant to post it because of potential copyright issues, but would be glad to send it to you off-list if you are interested. Sent from Yahoo! Mail. A Smarter Email. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 Thanks K, Think maybe you are right. I tell myself I am not trying to control thoughts and feelings but my secret agenda is to do just that. The questions you put made me realise that my mind is like a couple of sumo wrestlers going into battle - bouncing off each other, grappling each other to the floor, retiting to the corner for five minutes only to start fighting again. What peace there must be when we finally see out thoughts for what they are. I think I have been trying to use ACT as a secret weapon that will zap suffering -even whilst telling myself that I am not. oh well, back to the drawing board.... Simone [ACT_for_the_ Public] Anatomy of a worry. Hi Gang,Just wanted to relate my experiences over the last few months and maybe get some feedback.To cut a long story short I went to the Doctors with 'women's troubles' - and I have had to undergo a series of tests. At each stage of these investigations I was thinking the worst, or trying to rationalise, but feeling so vulnerable and weak. One day watched my thoughts bury me, re-marry my husband, leave my children motherless, never see them grow up.... and on and on and on. It felt so real this fear. My mind was like a herd of wild horses that would not be tamed. Now, I have been doing ACT for some time so I was aware of what I was doing but these thoughts seemed to have a life of their own - a force that I could not control ( aha! control) I managed to defuse only to pick them up again and again. I felt a wreck. Its uncertainty that I cannot stand - I'm still struggling with control - wanted everything ordered, calm, manageable. I work with three books, GOOYMAIYL, The happiness Trap and more recently the ACT workbook for anxiety. All great books. But I think I may have ACT overload - I have read all the books but never seem to find the time to get down to the exercises in detail - and am never sure which ones I should be doing. I love the CD in the workbook - that helped me a great deal. I think what I need is an exercise for dealing with uncertainty! Any suggestions?I feel such a twit getting myself into a state over the content of my mind - after all the work that I have been doing. My sisters husband finds out today if his cancer has returned - he is so positive, focused and determined to live a full life. I feel ashamed of my small, fearful and selfish self. Why are some of us like this? I'm so frustrated with myself!Sorry - needed to get that off my chest!Simone ( Gold Medalist Olympic worrier) Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address. Sent from Yahoo! Mail. A Smarter Email. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 Thank you , I think I get angry with God for being so absent - such an underachiever! But maybe I am missing the point. Maybe there is some meaning and value in suffering - I like the Forest Gump line too, I just think thats its so unfair that some of us get the nutty crunch whilst others get the strawberry cream! Its all so random and pointless - if I didn't believe in something soft and sweet at the heart of it all I think I would go mad. I'll work with uncertainty - do the exercise you mentioned. Take it slow. Thank you for your wisdom and compassion. Simone [ACT_for_the_ Public] Anatomy of a worry. Hi Gang,Just wanted to relate my experiences over the last few months and maybe get some feedback.To cut a long story short I went to the Doctors with 'women's troubles' - and I have had to undergo a series of tests. At each stage of these investigations I was thinking the worst, or trying to rationalise, but feeling so vulnerable and weak. One day watched my thoughts bury me, re-marry my husband, leave my children motherless, never see them grow up.... and on and on and on. It felt so real this fear. My mind was like a herd of wild horses that would not be tamed. Now, I have been doing ACT for some time so I was aware of what I was doing but these thoughts seemed to have a life of their own - a force that I could not control ( aha! control) I managed to defuse only to pick them up again and again. I felt a wreck. Its uncertainty that I cannot stand - I'm still struggling with control - wanted everything ordered, calm, manageable. I work with three books, GOOYMAIYL, The happiness Trap and more recently the ACT workbook for anxiety. All great books. But I think I may have ACT overload - I have read all the books but never seem to find the time to get down to the exercises in detail - and am never sure which ones I should be doing. I love the CD in the workbook - that helped me a great deal. I think what I need is an exercise for dealing with uncertainty! Any suggestions?I feel such a twit getting myself into a state over the content of my mind - after all the work that I have been doing. My sisters husband finds out today if his cancer has returned - he is so positive, focused and determined to live a full life. I feel ashamed of my small, fearful and selfish self. Why are some of us like this? I'm so frustrated with myself!Sorry - needed to get that off my chest!Simone ( Gold Medalist Olympic worrier) Sent from Yahoo! Mail. A Smarter Email. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 Thanks Madelon, I'll give it my best shot. Yummy! bring on the discomfort! Simone Re: Anatomy of a worry. Hi Simone,Oh, uncertainty is my favorite discomfort -- the one I dislike themost! Found out that resisting my discomfort was even MOREuncomfortable, so one day I decided to look for the very worst part ofthe uncertainty- -to find the most painful place and look it in theeye, or poke it to see what it was like. It was very interesting andsince I'm writing this, I survived it in pretty good shape--it'sapparently not a dangerous thing to do.Good luck!MadelonOn Tue, May 13, 2008 at 4:23 AM, adrianandboo <adrianandboo@ yahoo.co. uk> wrote:>> Hi Gang,>> Just wanted to relate my experiences over the last few months and> maybe get some feedback.> To cut a long story short I went to the Doctors with 'women's> troubles' - and I have had to undergo a series of tests. At each> stage of these investigations I was thinking the worst, or trying to> rationalise, but feeling so vulnerable and weak. One day watched my> thoughts bury me, re-marry my husband, leave my children motherless,> never see them grow up.... and on and on and on. It felt so real this> fear. My mind was like a herd of wild horses that would not be tamed.> Now, I have been doing ACT for some time so I was aware of what I was> doing but these thoughts seemed to have a life of their own - a force> that I could not control ( aha! control) I managed to defuse only to> pick them up again and again. I felt a wreck. Its uncertainty that I> cannot stand - I'm still struggling with control - wanted everything> ordered, calm, manageable. I work with three books, GOOYMAIYL, The> happiness Trap and more recently the ACT workbook for anxiety. All> great books. But I think I may have ACT overload - I have read all> the books but never seem to find the time to get down to the> exercises in detail - and am never sure which ones I should be doing.> I love the CD in the workbook - that helped me a great deal. I think> what I need is an exercise for dealing with uncertainty! Any> suggestions?> I feel such a twit getting myself into a state over the content of my> mind - after all the work that I have been doing. My sisters husband> finds out today if his cancer has returned - he is so positive,> focused and determined to live a full life. I feel ashamed of my> small, fearful and selfish self. Why are some of us like this? I'm so> frustrated with myself!>> Sorry - needed to get that off my chest!>> Simone ( Gold Medalist Olympic worrier)>>>> ------------ --------- --------- ------>> For other ACT materials and list serves see www.contextualpsych ology.org>> If you do not wish to belong to ACT_for_the_ Public, you may> unsubscribe by sending an email to> ACT_for_the_ Public-unsubscri beyahoogroups (DOT) com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 Randy,Wondering if you would be so kind as to send the Levine forgiveness exercise to me.Kind regards,Joe > Hi Gang, > > Just wanted to relate my experiences over the last few months and > maybe get some feedback. P.S. You might try a self-forgiveness meditation ... to gently let go of the comfort of the " twit " thoughts ... I so often cling to such thoughts myself as they reassure me all is in good order in heaven and earth. There is a wonderful exercise of this sort in a Levine book on death & dying - I am reluctant to post it because of potential copyright issues, but would be glad to send it to you off-list if you are interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 noticing that I mistakenly sent the below request to the list, instead of to only Randy, as I'd intended.what an excellent reminder to myself to come into mindful awareness before posting instead of impulsively clicking on send :-) JW Randy,Wondering if you would be so kind as to send the Levine forgiveness exercise to me.Kind regards,Joe > Hi Gang, > > Just wanted to relate my experiences over the last few months and > maybe get some feedback. P.S. You might try a self-forgiveness meditation ... to gently let go of the comfort of the " twit " thoughts ... I so often cling to such thoughts myself as they reassure me all is in good order in heaven and earth. There is a wonderful exercise of this sort in a Levine book on death & dying - I am reluctant to post it because of potential copyright issues, but would be glad to send it to you off-list if you are interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 > > Thanks K, > Think maybe you are right. I tell myself I am not trying to control thoughts and feelings but my secret agenda is to do just that. The questions you put made me realise that my mind is like a couple of sumo wrestlers going into battle - bouncing off each other, grappling each other to the floor, retiting to the corner for five minutes only to start fighting again. What peace there must be when we finally see out thoughts for what they are. I think I have been trying to use ACT as a secret weapon that will zap suffering -even whilst telling myself that I am not. > oh well, back to the drawing board.... > Simone > > Thats an interesting analogy simone, remember that you are not either of the wrestlers, so you must be the arena they are fighting in, getting a little scuffed and damaged by their actions. But in the end it doesnt matter to you which of them wins. keep breathing. remember your inner yoga teacher! good luck j Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 Hi Joe - I've sent you the exercise using the Yahoo groups email interface - so it should go to whatever email you use for the group. Let me know if you don't get it. -Randy > > > Hi Gang, > > > > > > Just wanted to relate my experiences over the last few months and > > > maybe get some feedback. > > > > > > P.S. You might try a self-forgiveness meditation ... to > > gently let go of the comfort of the " twit " thoughts ... > > I so often cling to such thoughts myself as they reassure > > me all is in good order in heaven and earth. There is a > > wonderful exercise of this sort in a Levine book > > on death & dying - I am reluctant to post it because of > > potential copyright issues, but would be glad to send it > > to you off-list if you are interested. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 Hi Randy, forgot to say I would like the Levine exercise too if thats ok - thanks again Simone Re: Anatomy of a worry. > Hi Gang,> > Just wanted to relate my experiences over the last few months and > maybe get some feedback.Hi Simone - Don't worry, you are not alone - I too have "ACT overload" and flipthrough this book & that book. Every other week I seem to discoversome new thing that is really a standard part of ACT, I just "forgot" it. My mind tells me "ACT has failed, you're doomed!" Thanks, mind.What I am doing right now - 1) Although mentioned in another of his excellent posts that he does his mindfulness practice in an impromptu manner, I dofind that I need to also schedule regular "appointments" with myselffor certain kinds of ACT work that need doing - a couple of times aweek is good. 2) It is easy for me to get back into a reason-giving head-trip -I do this often - & so some of my weekly work needs to be in this area. Regrets, confusion, avoided worries, etc. all tie intoreasons very often, and the reasons sound really credible, absolutely convincing. The question here is always somethinglike, "Okay, say it's true - does buying this reason help me go where I want to go?" Ignore the shriek from your mind of BUT IT'S REALLY TRRUUEEEEE ... let go & see what happens.I should add that the dynamic of freely chosen vs. "should, must" etc. is very compelling to me right now. Because values work can easily lead to a sense of feeling coerced - and thus becoming rigid - that is one of the barriers. And so defusion is needed often and often for a fresh breath of air ... & for a renewed & flexible commitment. good luck & take care -Randy P.S. You might try a self-forgiveness meditation ... to gently let go of the comfort of the "twit" thoughts ... I so often cling to such thoughts myself as they reassureme all is in good order in heaven and earth. There is a wonderful exercise of this sort in a Levine book on death & dying - I am reluctant to post it because of potential copyright issues, but would be glad to send it to you off-list if you are interested. Sent from Yahoo! Mail. A Smarter Email. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008  Me too! Maybe you should just post it to the list? Thanks!!!Helena Re: Anatomy of a worry. > Hi Gang,> > Just wanted to relate my experiences over the last few months and > maybe get some feedback.Hi Simone - Don't worry, you are not alone - I too have "ACT overload" and flipthrough this book & that book. Every other week I seem to discoversome new thing that is really a standard part of ACT, I just "forgot" it. My mind tells me "ACT has failed, you're doomed!" Thanks, mind.What I am doing right now - 1) Although mentioned in another of his excellent posts that he does his mindfulness practice in an impromptu manner, I dofind that I need to also schedule regular "appointments" with myselffor certain kinds of ACT work that need doing - a couple of times aweek is good. 2) It is easy for me to get back into a reason-giving head-trip -I do this often - & so some of my weekly work needs to be in this area. Regrets, confusion, avoided worries, etc. all tie intoreasons very often, and the reasons sound really credible, absolutely convincing. The question here is always somethinglike, "Okay, say it's true - does buying this reason help me go where I want to go?" Ignore the shriek from your mind of BUT IT'S REALLY TRRUUEEEEE ... let go & see what happens.I should add that the dynamic of freely chosen vs. "should, must" etc. is very compelling to me right now. Because values work can easily lead to a sense of feeling coerced - and thus becoming rigid - that is one of the barriers. And so defusion is needed often and often for a fresh breath of air ... & for a renewed & flexible commitment. good luck & take care -Randy P.S. You might try a self-forgiveness meditation ... to gently let go of the comfort of the "twit" thoughts ... I so often cling to such thoughts myself as they reassureme all is in good order in heaven and earth. There is a wonderful exercise of this sort in a Levine book on death & dying - I am reluctant to post it because of potential copyright issues, but would be glad to send it to you off-list if you are interested. Sent from Yahoo! Mail. A Smarter Email. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 > Me too! Maybe you should just post it to the list? Still a little worried about copyright - it's too long to just post as is without L.'s permission. (I'm a writer so I worry about these things). But here is a link to a very similar version that he wrote for someone's newsletter on the Web - http://www.wellnessgoods.com/forgiveness.asp And below is a link to a podcast that includes an audio version of the exercise, with Levine speaking about the nature of forgiveness - rather long but interesting. He speaks from a quasi-Buddhist tradition (some Christian imagery too here & there) - but I think it's ACT-friendly in many ways, e.g. rigidity of thought & avoidance of uncertainty or discomfort are typical barriers to opening up - http://www.podcastdirectory.com/podshows/712646 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 How about guru with a small g. Thanks, Bill To: ACT_for_the_Public From: Forsyth@...Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 12:52:45 -0400Subject: RE: Anatomy of a worry. Hi Bill – Here’s my sense of leaning into. It means to touch what is there instead of the habit of pulling away, hardening, struggling, or shutting down. This leaning in cuts against the grain of the old habits of avoidance. You approach with curiosity and some space to allow your experience to be exactly as it is. This is something you can chose to do, and this choice can have an odd effect. When you don’t resist your discomfort, it may not stick around as long. More importantly, leaning into it as it is means that you are no longer fighting it, struggling with it. This defuses the power of anxiety to pull you out of your life. I don’t think of leaning into as exploring everything there is to experience about anxiety. To me, this sounds like drowning in it. The goal is not to be a masochist, but to be lighter and gentler with your discomfort when it shows up and then allowing it to recede as some other aspect of your experience emerges on the stage. If there is one thing to notice here it is probably the urge to lean out, harden, shut down, pull away, or cut and run. These natural impulses are the fuel for anxious suffering and if you can learn to notice them and let them be, you are well on your way to doing something radical and new. This may give you other options. One last thing … I am a person just like you. I get stuck now and then too. I don’t think of myself as a Guru, and hope you don’t think of me as one J. I’m just a human being trying to do the best that I can. A fellow traveler of this journey we call a life. You are on that path too. We all can learn something from one another. I’ll do my best to help where I can. We are all in this together, each faced with the challenges of being a human being, each faced with the challenges of living well. Don’t forget that when you (like me) face pain and discomfort as you step in directions that you want to go. Peace -j P. Forsyth, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Psychology Director of Clinical Training Director, Anxiety Disorders Research Program University at Albany, SUNY Department of Psychology Social Science 369 1400 Washington Avenue Albany, NY 12222 Ph: Fax: email: forsythalbany (DOT) edu Web www.albany.edu/~forsyth www.acceptanceandmindfulness.com www.contextualpsychology.org Web Blog on Mindfulness and Acceptance for Anxiety http://mindfulness-and-anxiety.blogspot.com/ Undergraduates interested in a research position in my lab can apply at: www.albany.edu/~forsyth/undergradra.html From: ACT_for_the_Public [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of BILL CAMERONSent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 10:21 AMTo: act_for_the_public Subject: RE: Anatomy of a worry. Dear - The term "lean into" has turned out to be a trap for me as I seem to overdo it. I have fed myself to the tiger on several occasions, thinking that I was leaning into whatever. My leaning into tends toward going down every rabbit hole to thoroughly explore every possible catastrophic outcome, an amygdala's dream. These adventures have lasted for several days to up to a week. My therapist and I have figured this out and I now recognize what I've been doing. But I need some clarification on what "leaning into" means. I've dug through all of the books for the answer. This seems to be one of the riddles of ACT. One of the things I've found especially helpful from this listserv are the effective "conversations" folks have with their mind, such as this post from Parks http://by113w.bay113.mail.live.com/mail/mail.aspx? & ip=10.1.106.211 & d=d939 & mf=a0 Any enlightenment on "leaning into" would be appreciated. Thanks for taking the time to make your personal posts. Very supporting to know a "guru" is watching over us. Bill To: ACT_for_the_Public From: Forsythcas (DOT) albany.eduDate: Tue, 13 May 2008 08:51:53 -0400Subject: RE: Anatomy of a worry. Remember the line from the movie Forest Gump … Mamma told me that “life is like a box of chocolates…you never know what you’re going to get.” That line resonates with me. Our minds like certainty and will be at work 24/7 making sense of our experience. This can give us the illusion of certainty, as when it paints a dark picture of a future that has yet to be – one thought brush stroke after another. That picture may seem as real as the shoes on your feet, but it is not – it is a bunch of words and images. What is certain is that everything changes and that the future is unknown. No amount of thinking will change that future. You probably know that already. Our minds love to pull us into futures that have yet to be or pasts that once were. Just the other day I learned that my mother of 66 years (and otherwise in good health) developed sudden weakness in the legs, is unable to walk, and has lost sensation in her groin and legs too, amounting to loss of bowel and bladder control. She’s been through the mill of tests and nobody seems to know what is going on. She didn’t ask for this, but it happened. Now she is doing what she can to take care of herself. She’s now in a rehab facility and hasn’t been home in almost a month. Just the other day, she said told my father that “life is short.” It might be helpful to see if you can lean into the natural uncertainty of life and perhaps allow yourself a bit of time to just sit with that during some mindfulness practice. Notice that the thoughts you have here are all projections into a future that has yet to be. Just thoughts creating the illusion of a certain future, like a time machine that pulls you out of the certain present – just where you are. My mother appears focused and positive, but I also know that deep down she is scared. I don’t see or experience her fear, but if I could get inside her head and heart, I’m almost certain that I’d find fear, uncertainty, worry, and many other experiences there too. There is no shame in that. She has years of life ahead, judging by most standards, and in this moment of despair I am my family are given an opportunity to care for her and do what we can to be there for her. The thought and feelings you have are not the enemy – you are not broken for feeling and thinking what you feel and think. See too how your mind throws judgment into the mix – shame and selfish are just two of them you mention. Just thoughts…more blah, blah, blah… So, perhaps the thing to do it to just take it slow. Pick an exercise or two that seems to resonate with you and let your experience with it be your guide. Then, you can move on to something else. Making time for practice is important I think – the skills you water and allow to grow with practice develop over time. It’s like riding a bicycle. That time is time for you – taking care of you. You allow yourself some room to do something for you,. As you do something new, you risk getting something new. The outcome, even here, is uncertain. You might try the giving and receiving exercise on the CD in The Mindfulness & Acceptance Workbook for Anxiety. You can make it your own by doing the exercise with uncertainty in mind, for those that suffer about and through the uncertainty. Thanks again for sharing Simone. You are not alone. We are all in the same soup. Peace -john P. Forsyth, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Psychology Director of Clinical Training Director, Anxiety Disorders Research Program University at Albany, SUNY Department of Psychology Social Science 369 1400 Washington Avenue Albany, NY 12222 Ph: Fax: email: forsythalbany (DOT) edu Web www.albany.edu/~forsyth www.acceptanceandmindfulness.com www.contextualpsychology.org Web Blog on Mindfulness and Acceptance for Anxiety http://mindfulness-and-anxiety.blogspot.com/ Undergraduates interested in a research position in my lab can apply at: www.albany.edu/~forsyth/undergradra.html From: ACT_for_the_Public [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of adrianandbooSent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 7:24 AMTo: ACT_for_the_Public Subject: Anatomy of a worry. Hi Gang,Just wanted to relate my experiences over the last few months and maybe get some feedback.To cut a long story short I went to the Doctors with 'women's troubles' - and I have had to undergo a series of tests. At each stage of these investigations I was thinking the worst, or trying to rationalise, but feeling so vulnerable and weak. One day watched my thoughts bury me, re-marry my husband, leave my children motherless, never see them grow up.... and on and on and on. It felt so real this fear. My mind was like a herd of wild horses that would not be tamed. Now, I have been doing ACT for some time so I was aware of what I was doing but these thoughts seemed to have a life of their own - a force that I could not control ( aha! control) I managed to defuse only to pick them up again and again. I felt a wreck. Its uncertainty that I cannot stand - I'm still struggling with control - wanted everything ordered, calm, manageable. I work with three books, GOOYMAIYL, The happiness Trap and more recently the ACT workbook for anxiety. All great books. But I think I may have ACT overload - I have read all the books but never seem to find the time to get down to the exercises in detail - and am never sure which ones I should be doing. I love the CD in the workbook - that helped me a great deal. I think what I need is an exercise for dealing with uncertainty! Any suggestions?I feel such a twit getting myself into a state over the content of my mind - after all the work that I have been doing. My sisters husband finds out today if his cancer has returned - he is so positive, focused and determined to live a full life. I feel ashamed of my small, fearful and selfish self. Why are some of us like this? I'm so frustrated with myself!Sorry - needed to get that off my chest!Simone ( Gold Medalist Olympic worrier) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 Lol -- -j P. Forsyth, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Psychology Director of Clinical Training Director, Anxiety Disorders Research Program University at Albany, SUNY Department of Psychology Social Science 369 1400 Washington Avenue Albany, NY 12222 Ph: Fax: email: forsyth@... Web www.albany.edu/~forsyth www.acceptanceandmindfulness.com www.contextualpsychology.org Web Blog on Mindfulness and Acceptance for Anxiety http://mindfulness-and-anxiety.blogspot.com/ Undergraduates interested in a research position in my lab can apply at: www.albany.edu/~forsyth/undergradra.html From: ACT_for_the_Public [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of BILL CAMERON Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 9:29 AM To: act_for_the_public Subject: RE: Anatomy of a worry. How about guru with a small g. Thanks, Bill To: ACT_for_the_Public From: Forsyth@... Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 12:52:45 -0400 Subject: RE: Anatomy of a worry. Hi Bill – Here’s my sense of leaning into. It means to touch what is there instead of the habit of pulling away, hardening, struggling, or shutting down. This leaning in cuts against the grain of the old habits of avoidance. You approach with curiosity and some space to allow your experience to be exactly as it is. This is something you can chose to do, and this choice can have an odd effect. When you don’t resist your discomfort, it may not stick around as long. More importantly, leaning into it as it is means that you are no longer fighting it, struggling with it. This defuses the power of anxiety to pull you out of your life. I don’t think of leaning into as exploring everything there is to experience about anxiety. To me, this sounds like drowning in it. The goal is not to be a masochist, but to be lighter and gentler with your discomfort when it shows up and then allowing it to recede as some other aspect of your experience emerges on the stage. If there is one thing to notice here it is probably the urge to lean out, harden, shut down, pull away, or cut and run. These natural impulses are the fuel for anxious suffering and if you can learn to notice them and let them be, you are well on your way to doing something radical and new. This may give you other options. One last thing … I am a person just like you. I get stuck now and then too. I don’t think of myself as a Guru, and hope you don’t think of me as one J. I’m just a human being trying to do the best that I can. A fellow traveler of this journey we call a life. You are on that path too. We all can learn something from one another. I’ll do my best to help where I can. We are all in this together, each faced with the challenges of being a human being, each faced with the challenges of living well. Don’t forget that when you (like me) face pain and discomfort as you step in directions that you want to go. Peace -j P. Forsyth, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Psychology Director of Clinical Training Director, Anxiety Disorders Research Program University at Albany, SUNY Department of Psychology Social Science 369 1400 Washington Avenue Albany, NY 12222 Ph: Fax: email: forsyth@... Web www.albany.edu/~forsyth www.acceptanceandmindfulness.com www.contextualpsychology.org Web Blog on Mindfulness and Acceptance for Anxiety http://mindfulness-and-anxiety.blogspot.com/ Undergraduates interested in a research position in my lab can apply at: www.albany.edu/~forsyth/undergradra.html From: ACT_for_the_Public [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of BILL CAMERON Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 10:21 AM To: act_for_the_public Subject: RE: Anatomy of a worry. Dear - The term " lean into " has turned out to be a trap for me as I seem to overdo it. I have fed myself to the tiger on several occasions, thinking that I was leaning into whatever. My leaning into tends toward going down every rabbit hole to thoroughly explore every possible catastrophic outcome, an amygdala's dream. These adventures have lasted for several days to up to a week. My therapist and I have figured this out and I now recognize what I've been doing. But I need some clarification on what " leaning into " means. I've dug through all of the books for the answer. This seems to be one of the riddles of ACT. One of the things I've found especially helpful from this listserv are the effective " conversations " folks have with their mind, such as this post from Parks http://by113w.bay113.mail.live.com/mail/mail.aspx? & ip=10.1.106.211 & d=d939 & mf=a0 Any enlightenment on " leaning into " would be appreciated. Thanks for taking the time to make your personal posts. Very supporting to know a " guru " is watching over us. Bill To: ACT_for_the_Public From: Forsyth@... Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 08:51:53 -0400 Subject: RE: Anatomy of a worry. Remember the line from the movie Forest Gump … Mamma told me that “life is like a box of chocolates…you never know what you’re going to get.” That line resonates with me. Our minds like certainty and will be at work 24/7 making sense of our experience. This can give us the illusion of certainty, as when it paints a dark picture of a future that has yet to be – one thought brush stroke after another. That picture may seem as real as the shoes on your feet, but it is not – it is a bunch of words and images. What is certain is that everything changes and that the future is unknown. No amount of thinking will change that future. You probably know that already. Our minds love to pull us into futures that have yet to be or pasts that once were. Just the other day I learned that my mother of 66 years (and otherwise in good health) developed sudden weakness in the legs, is unable to walk, and has lost sensation in her groin and legs too, amounting to loss of bowel and bladder control. She’s been through the mill of tests and nobody seems to know what is going on. She didn’t ask for this, but it happened. Now she is doing what she can to take care of herself. She’s now in a rehab facility and hasn’t been home in almost a month. Just the other day, she said told my father that “life is short.” It might be helpful to see if you can lean into the natural uncertainty of life and perhaps allow yourself a bit of time to just sit with that during some mindfulness practice. Notice that the thoughts you have here are all projections into a future that has yet to be. Just thoughts creating the illusion of a certain future, like a time machine that pulls you out of the certain present – just where you are. My mother appears focused and positive, but I also know that deep down she is scared. I don’t see or experience her fear, but if I could get inside her head and heart, I’m almost certain that I’d find fear, uncertainty, worry, and many other experiences there too. There is no shame in that. She has years of life ahead, judging by most standards, and in this moment of despair I am my family are given an opportunity to care for her and do what we can to be there for her. The thought and feelings you have are not the enemy – you are not broken for feeling and thinking what you feel and think. See too how your mind throws judgment into the mix – shame and selfish are just two of them you mention. Just thoughts…more blah, blah, blah… So, perhaps the thing to do it to just take it slow. Pick an exercise or two that seems to resonate with you and let your experience with it be your guide. Then, you can move on to something else. Making time for practice is important I think – the skills you water and allow to grow with practice develop over time. It’s like riding a bicycle. That time is time for you – taking care of you. You allow yourself some room to do something for you,. As you do something new, you risk getting something new. The outcome, even here, is uncertain. You might try the giving and receiving exercise on the CD in The Mindfulness & Acceptance Workbook for Anxiety. You can make it your own by doing the exercise with uncertainty in mind, for those that suffer about and through the uncertainty. Thanks again for sharing Simone. You are not alone. We are all in the same soup. Peace -john P. Forsyth, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Psychology Director of Clinical Training Director, Anxiety Disorders Research Program University at Albany, SUNY Department of Psychology Social Science 369 1400 Washington Avenue Albany, NY 12222 Ph: Fax: email: forsyth@... Web www.albany.edu/~forsyth www.acceptanceandmindfulness.com www.contextualpsychology.org Web Blog on Mindfulness and Acceptance for Anxiety http://mindfulness-and-anxiety.blogspot.com/ Undergraduates interested in a research position in my lab can apply at: www.albany.edu/~forsyth/undergradra.html From: ACT_for_the_Public [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of adrianandboo Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 7:24 AM To: ACT_for_the_Public Subject: Anatomy of a worry. Hi Gang, Just wanted to relate my experiences over the last few months and maybe get some feedback. To cut a long story short I went to the Doctors with 'women's troubles' - and I have had to undergo a series of tests. At each stage of these investigations I was thinking the worst, or trying to rationalise, but feeling so vulnerable and weak. One day watched my thoughts bury me, re-marry my husband, leave my children motherless, never see them grow up.... and on and on and on. It felt so real this fear. My mind was like a herd of wild horses that would not be tamed. Now, I have been doing ACT for some time so I was aware of what I was doing but these thoughts seemed to have a life of their own - a force that I could not control ( aha! control) I managed to defuse only to pick them up again and again. I felt a wreck. Its uncertainty that I cannot stand - I'm still struggling with control - wanted everything ordered, calm, manageable. I work with three books, GOOYMAIYL, The happiness Trap and more recently the ACT workbook for anxiety. All great books. But I think I may have ACT overload - I have read all the books but never seem to find the time to get down to the exercises in detail - and am never sure which ones I should be doing. I love the CD in the workbook - that helped me a great deal. I think what I need is an exercise for dealing with uncertainty! Any suggestions? I feel such a twit getting myself into a state over the content of my mind - after all the work that I have been doing. My sisters husband finds out today if his cancer has returned - he is so positive, focused and determined to live a full life. I feel ashamed of my small, fearful and selfish self. Why are some of us like this? I'm so frustrated with myself! Sorry - needed to get that off my chest! Simone ( Gold Medalist Olympic worrier) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 I understand your concern about posting someone else's words ... thanks for the links; they are very helpful. Helena Re: Anatomy of a worry. > Me too! Maybe you should just post it to the list?Still a little worried about copyright - it's too long to just post as is without L.'s permission. (I'm a writer so I worry about these things). But here is a link to a very similar version that he wrote for someone's newsletter on the Web - http://www.wellnessgoods.com/forgiveness.aspAnd below is a link to a podcast that includes an audio version of the exercise, with Levine speaking about the nature of forgiveness - rather long but interesting. He speaks from a quasi-Buddhist tradition (some Christian imagery too here & there) - but I think it's ACT-friendly in many ways, e.g. rigidity of thought & avoidance of uncertainty or discomfort are typical barriers to opening up - http://www.podcastdirectory.com/podshows/712646 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 Randy, What is the name of the book? I have a few Levine books that I haven't read and I'm wondering if I have this one. Thanks, Christi > > P.S. You might try a self-forgiveness meditation ... to > gently let go of the comfort of the " twit " thoughts ... > I so often cling to such thoughts myself as they reassure > me all is in good order in heaven and earth. There is a > wonderful exercise of this sort in a Levine book > on death & dying - I am reluctant to post it because of > potential copyright issues, but would be glad to send it > to you off-list if you are interested. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 The book is - " Who Dies? An Investigation of Conscious Living and Conscious Dying, " by Levine & Ondrea Levine > > Randy, What is the name of the book? I have a few Levine > books that I haven't read and I'm wondering if I have this one. > > Thanks, > Christi > > > > > P.S. You might try a self-forgiveness meditation ... to > > gently let go of the comfort of the " twit " thoughts ... > > I so often cling to such thoughts myself as they reassure > > me all is in good order in heaven and earth. There is a > > wonderful exercise of this sort in a Levine book > > on death & dying - I am reluctant to post it because of > > potential copyright issues, but would be glad to send it > > to you off-list if you are interested. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 Thanks Randy. I have that book and look forward to reading your recommendation. Christi Re: Anatomy of a worry. The book is - "Who Dies? An Investigation of Conscious Living and Conscious Dying," by Levine & Ondrea Levine >> Randy, What is the name of the book? I have a few Levine > books that I haven't read and I'm wondering if I have this one.> > Thanks,> Christi> > > > > P.S. You might try a self-forgiveness meditation ... to > > gently let go of the comfort of the "twit" thoughts ... > > I so often cling to such thoughts myself as they reassure> > me all is in good order in heaven and earth. There is a > > wonderful exercise of this sort in a Levine book > > on death & dying - I am reluctant to post it because of > > potential copyright issues, but would be glad to send it > > to you off-list if you are interested.> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2008 Report Share Posted May 16, 2008 Hi - I now realize that I was more buying into the thoughts than I was leaning into them. Accepting/making room for does not mean buying into. The bubble wand exercise seems tricky in this regard, almost as if to see how far one can lean into without falling into the hole. Exposing oneself to the layers of bothersome thought seems like an adventure into buying the thought. I do see that it is clearly not avoidance!!! I'm finding that ACT depends on the careful understanding of common words with a very precise ACT meaning. Maybe a glossary would be helpful, with a "what it does not mean" component. I know these distinctions are included in the text of your book and others but it's hard to find them when one is clinging to the cliff with one hand while holding the book in the other!!!! I wish it was an intuitive as riding a bicycle. I'm sure it will be so, someday, for me. Bill To: ACT_for_the_Public From: Forsyth@...Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 12:52:45 -0400Subject: RE: Anatomy of a worry. Hi Bill – Here’s my sense of leaning into. It means to touch what is there instead of the habit of pulling away, hardening, struggling, or shutting down. This leaning in cuts against the grain of the old habits of avoidance. You approach with curiosity and some space to allow your experience to be exactly as it is. This is something you can chose to do, and this choice can have an odd effect. When you don’t resist your discomfort, it may not stick around as long. More importantly, leaning into it as it is means that you are no longer fighting it, struggling with it. This defuses the power of anxiety to pull you out of your life. I don’t think of leaning into as exploring everything there is to experience about anxiety. To me, this sounds like drowning in it. The goal is not to be a masochist, but to be lighter and gentler with your discomfort when it shows up and then allowing it to recede as some other aspect of your experience emerges on the stage. If there is one thing to notice here it is probably the urge to lean out, harden, shut down, pull away, or cut and run. These natural impulses are the fuel for anxious suffering and if you can learn to notice them and let them be, you are well on your way to doing something radical and new. This may give you other options. One last thing … I am a person just like you. I get stuck now and then too. I don’t think of myself as a Guru, and hope you don’t think of me as one J. I’m just a human being trying to do the best that I can. A fellow traveler of this journey we call a life. You are on that path too. We all can learn something from one another. I’ll do my best to help where I can. We are all in this together, each faced with the challenges of being a human being, each faced with the challenges of living well. Don’t forget that when you (like me) face pain and discomfort as you step in directions that you want to go. Peace -j P. Forsyth, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Psychology Director of Clinical Training Director, Anxiety Disorders Research Program University at Albany, SUNY Department of Psychology Social Science 369 1400 Washington Avenue Albany, NY 12222 Ph: Fax: email: forsythalbany (DOT) edu Web www.albany.edu/~forsyth www.acceptanceandmindfulness.com www.contextualpsychology.org Web Blog on Mindfulness and Acceptance for Anxiety http://mindfulness-and-anxiety.blogspot.com/ Undergraduates interested in a research position in my lab can apply at: www.albany.edu/~forsyth/undergradra.html From: ACT_for_the_Public [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of BILL CAMERONSent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 10:21 AMTo: act_for_the_public Subject: RE: Anatomy of a worry. Dear - The term "lean into" has turned out to be a trap for me as I seem to overdo it. I have fed myself to the tiger on several occasions, thinking that I was leaning into whatever. My leaning into tends toward going down every rabbit hole to thoroughly explore every possible catastrophic outcome, an amygdala's dream. These adventures have lasted for several days to up to a week. My therapist and I have figured this out and I now recognize what I've been doing. But I need some clarification on what "leaning into" means. I've dug through all of the books for the answer. This seems to be one of the riddles of ACT. One of the things I've found especially helpful from this listserv are the effective "conversations" folks have with their mind, such as this post from Parks http://by113w.bay113.mail.live.com/mail/mail.aspx? & ip=10.1.106.211 & d=d939 & mf=a0 Any enlightenment on "leaning into" would be appreciated. Thanks for taking the time to make your personal posts. Very supporting to know a "guru" is watching over us. Bill To: ACT_for_the_Public From: Forsythcas (DOT) albany.eduDate: Tue, 13 May 2008 08:51:53 -0400Subject: RE: Anatomy of a worry. Remember the line from the movie Forest Gump … Mamma told me that “life is like a box of chocolates…you never know what you’re going to get.” That line resonates with me. Our minds like certainty and will be at work 24/7 making sense of our experience. This can give us the illusion of certainty, as when it paints a dark picture of a future that has yet to be – one thought brush stroke after another. That picture may seem as real as the shoes on your feet, but it is not – it is a bunch of words and images. What is certain is that everything changes and that the future is unknown. No amount of thinking will change that future. You probably know that already. Our minds love to pull us into futures that have yet to be or pasts that once were. Just the other day I learned that my mother of 66 years (and otherwise in good health) developed sudden weakness in the legs, is unable to walk, and has lost sensation in her groin and legs too, amounting to loss of bowel and bladder control. She’s been through the mill of tests and nobody seems to know what is going on. She didn’t ask for this, but it happened. Now she is doing what she can to take care of herself. She’s now in a rehab facility and hasn’t been home in almost a month. Just the other day, she said told my father that “life is short.” It might be helpful to see if you can lean into the natural uncertainty of life and perhaps allow yourself a bit of time to just sit with that during some mindfulness practice. Notice that the thoughts you have here are all projections into a future that has yet to be. Just thoughts creating the illusion of a certain future, like a time machine that pulls you out of the certain present – just where you are. My mother appears focused and positive, but I also know that deep down she is scared. I don’t see or experience her fear, but if I could get inside her head and heart, I’m almost certain that I’d find fear, uncertainty, worry, and many other experiences there too. There is no shame in that. She has years of life ahead, judging by most standards, and in this moment of despair I am my family are given an opportunity to care for her and do what we can to be there for her. The thought and feelings you have are not the enemy – you are not broken for feeling and thinking what you feel and think. See too how your mind throws judgment into the mix – shame and selfish are just two of them you mention. Just thoughts…more blah, blah, blah… So, perhaps the thing to do it to just take it slow. Pick an exercise or two that seems to resonate with you and let your experience with it be your guide. Then, you can move on to something else. Making time for practice is important I think – the skills you water and allow to grow with practice develop over time. It’s like riding a bicycle. That time is time for you – taking care of you. You allow yourself some room to do something for you,. As you do something new, you risk getting something new. The outcome, even here, is uncertain. You might try the giving and receiving exercise on the CD in The Mindfulness & Acceptance Workbook for Anxiety. You can make it your own by doing the exercise with uncertainty in mind, for those that suffer about and through the uncertainty. Thanks again for sharing Simone. You are not alone. We are all in the same soup. Peace -john P. Forsyth, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Psychology Director of Clinical Training Director, Anxiety Disorders Research Program University at Albany, SUNY Department of Psychology Social Science 369 1400 Washington Avenue Albany, NY 12222 Ph: Fax: email: forsythalbany (DOT) edu Web www.albany.edu/~forsyth www.acceptanceandmindfulness.com www.contextualpsychology.org Web Blog on Mindfulness and Acceptance for Anxiety http://mindfulness-and-anxiety.blogspot.com/ Undergraduates interested in a research position in my lab can apply at: www.albany.edu/~forsyth/undergradra.html From: ACT_for_the_Public [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of adrianandbooSent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 7:24 AMTo: ACT_for_the_Public Subject: Anatomy of a worry. Hi Gang,Just wanted to relate my experiences over the last few months and maybe get some feedback.To cut a long story short I went to the Doctors with 'women's troubles' - and I have had to undergo a series of tests. At each stage of these investigations I was thinking the worst, or trying to rationalise, but feeling so vulnerable and weak. One day watched my thoughts bury me, re-marry my husband, leave my children motherless, never see them grow up.... and on and on and on. It felt so real this fear. My mind was like a herd of wild horses that would not be tamed. Now, I have been doing ACT for some time so I was aware of what I was doing but these thoughts seemed to have a life of their own - a force that I could not control ( aha! control) I managed to defuse only to pick them up again and again. I felt a wreck. Its uncertainty that I cannot stand - I'm still struggling with control - wanted everything ordered, calm, manageable. I work with three books, GOOYMAIYL, The happiness Trap and more recently the ACT workbook for anxiety. All great books. But I think I may have ACT overload - I have read all the books but never seem to find the time to get down to the exercises in detail - and am never sure which ones I should be doing. I love the CD in the workbook - that helped me a great deal. I think what I need is an exercise for dealing with uncertainty! Any suggestions?I feel such a twit getting myself into a state over the content of my mind - after all the work that I have been doing. My sisters husband finds out today if his cancer has returned - he is so positive, focused and determined to live a full life. I feel ashamed of my small, fearful and selfish self. Why are some of us like this? I'm so frustrated with myself!Sorry - needed to get that off my chest!Simone ( Gold Medalist Olympic worrier) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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