[SPAM] Re: ACT and Religion

[Guest guest]

Hi Henrik and Kavy I agree with what is being said here. To pretend to believe is not believing - and adds yet another layer to the avoidance of reality. Even to REALLY believe is no way to avoid the pain in life - if we value anything we are virtually guaranteed to have pain. So to value 'believing' - anything - adds a potential area for pain. Much that has been written about this here is about that I think. Devout believers in Christianity, Islam - you name it - still have pain. In fact, the 'verbal rules' that accompany the belief can create pain that would not be there otherwise. For me ACT has meant learning to live in the present moment. Learning how to open up to, and support, 'who I am and where I am'. To accept the ugly bits, with willingness to experience what I have been hiding from, enables me

to work towards living out what I believe in. (Small, baby steps and very haltering ones at that - but it's the direction that counts). It is almost as if I choose a framework within which I want to 'work out' the spiritual dimension of myself. There are many frameworks available - I have chosen to believe the Christian gospel. I live in a Moslem country and observe my Moslem friends 'working out' their own spiritual dimensions according to what they have chosen to believe. The 'spiritual dimension' (if I may call it that) is similar for each of us - it's the framework for acting it out that is different. As is the framework for living with the belief that you have no belief in (a) deity(ies). As I wrote the word 'chosen' my mind went into overdrive about cultural and family influences, indoctrination, legal systems etc. and I started rehearsing all the arguments about religious

orientation not being a 'chice' for some. I would like to put those on the back burner for the moment, together with any arguments about the 'real' existence of g(G)od(s). As worthy of discussion as those topics are, they are big subjects and would, I think, just complicate what we are all trying to grasp here. I had a thought this morning - is religion the same as 'magic'? I think I was once confused between the two. Wouldn't it be nice if I could join the team who REALLY included Santa Claus, the tooth fairy and the Easter bunny?! It seems there is no way to escape the pain of caring and being. With gentle understanding Ingrid Henrik Nordin wrote: Hi Kavy, I can relate to what you say - inventing a spirituality and pretend that I /you believe in it. This is not the spirituality that Steve talks about – he talks about a transcendental kind of spirituality, right? – What you mean, and that I recognize in myself is rather escapism. Not supporting to be who you are or where you are and then living in a fantasy where I’m really, really spiritual. The pain that comes from realizing that it was just fake spirituality is hard, but for me accepting that pain opens up to the present moment. And I think that being open to the present moment is much more spiritual than living a kind of spiritual dream where I'm on the path to enlightenment - bla, bla ,bla. Even if it's

painful. Best, Henrik ACT and Religion> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi.> > > > I'm not sure that ACT and religion are compatible. Religion seems > to me something that people use

("control tactic") in order to > control unpleasant feelings and insecurities. I would also argue that > positing a 'supernatural' being/spirit/entity is (almost?) by > definition an argument with reality.> > > > Any thoughts?> > > > Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really want -> millions of new email addresses available now at Yahoo!> >>

[Guest guest]

Wow, that's so nice Helena, I always think I am boring people.

Thanks for that, it was important to me.

Kavy

> > > >

> > > > Hi - You've raised an interesting question and I

> can't

> > wait

> > > to hear some responses. I think it depends on which

definition

> of

> > > religion we use. Some people do use their religion " in order

to

> > > control unpleasant feelings and insecurities. " Perhaps " deal

> > with "

> > > or " ACCEPT " would be better words. My religion is a rich mix

of

> > > Buddhism, Christianity, ACT and who knows what else - the

> result

> > of

> > > many years of searching for answers to questions without

> answers

> > and

> > > dealing with life's pain. It helps me ACCEPT what life offers

> and

> > > live a valued life through committed action. I admit that I'm

> > taking

> > > much liberty with the word religion and I hope one of our

> > linguists

> > > will help with the root of the word. Looking forward to the

> > > discussion.

> > > >

> > > > I think a recent post by one of the ACT professionals

raised

> > the

> > > idea of a " congregation " of people who share a belief that

ACT

> > works -

> > > forgive the license I've surely taken with their post.

> > > >

> > > > For what it's worth.

> > > >

> > > > Bill

> > > > Boulder, CO

> > > > Not an ACT professional!

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > To: ACT_for_the_Public@: russell_c_cook@: Sun, 3 Aug 2008

> > > 07:57:20 +0000Subject: ACT and Religion

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Hi.

> > > >

> > > > I'm not sure that ACT and religion are compatible. Religion

> > seems

> > > to me something that people use ( " control tactic " ) in order

to

> > > control unpleasant feelings and insecurities. I would also

> argue

> > that

> > > positing a 'supernatural' being/spirit/entity is (almost?) by

> > > definition an argument with reality.

> > > >

> > > > Any thoughts?

> > > >

> > > > Not happy with your email address? Get the one you really

> want -

> >

> > > millions of new email addresses available now at Yahoo!

> > > >

> > >

> >

>