Guest guest Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 Where are you as a conscious human being when youthink " Again, I'd be interested to know how the ACT approach would deal with this. Do I accept these feelings as unpleasant and that's it " ?As you have these thoughts, who has them?As you host these thoughts, who is hosting them?As you are aware of these thoughts, who is aware of them? Inside the network of your mind there is no solution. You can't successfully negotiate with how things work on the grounds of your misery ( " It's very tiring and debilitating. " ) because your mind is mindlessly doing what minds do. It cannot stop. You can.Hundreds of people on this very list have learned how.If you can find that detached and mindful sense of yourself see if it isn't so that this part of you can choose to attend or not. Every moment you spend focused on getting the anxiety to go away,or evaluating it, or negotiating with it is another moment of your life put on hold. What if the next moment could be about what you most deeply value, anxiety or not? OK that is one moment. What is the next moment after that could be about what you most deeply value, anxiety or not?OK, that is two moments. What if these choices were truly about living notabout getting anxiety to go away. With enough moments like that your life is moving and it really, truly is no longerabout anxiety, whether or not there is anxiety. This is not hard in an effortful sense ... it is hard in a tricky sense. That is because your mind is a problem solving organ and yourlife is not a problem to be solved.These words will not help unless you've done enough to have some of theelements in place in an experiential way. Have you? Read the books / do the exercises / push against it / see how it works.It can't be a simple verbal formula because guess which organ deals with verbal formulae? " I used to think that my mind was my most important organ .... until I notice which organ was telling me that. " Once some of the experiential elements are in place, thewords on the screen can bump you just enough to connect withyour experience.AcceptChoose Take valued actionNotice the thoughts and feelingsNotice who is noticingLet go of the struggleConnect with what you want to be aboutMoveThey aren't verbal formulae anymore than " here is how to balance on one foot " is really how people learn to balance on one footHard-tricky, not hard-effortfulGive yourself time.The group will help but it will only help when it begins to build on experiences those words are about We are rooting for you- S C. Foundation ProfessorDepartment of Psychology /298University of NevadaReno, NV 89557-0062hayes@... or stevenchayes@... Fax: Context Press (you can use for messages): (www.contextpress.com)If you want my vita, publications, PowerPoint slides, go to http://www.contextualpsychology.org/blog/steven_hayes If you are a professional or student and want to be part of the world wide ACT discussion or RFT discussions go to http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/acceptanceandcommitmenttherapy/join orhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/relationalframetheory/joinIf you are a member of the public reading ACT self-help books (e.g., " Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life " etc) go to: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/join Hi all I find that my nerves are very sensitised through my constant thinking of unpleasant, obsessional thoughts / fears. It's very tiring and debilitating. This means that any negative thought is felt at a physical level and that I feel close to panic most of the time. Again, I'd be interested to know how the ACT approach would deal with this. Do I accept these feelings as unpleasant and that's it? I guess i notice them, which gets me more anxious which makes me more sensitised etc etc. I recognise that I have no control over the thoughts and their frequency - although I have very much been trying to get rid of them (experiential avoidance I guess)which has made things worse. I find breaking the cycle difficult to achieve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 Hi Firstly, many thanks for responding to my post. I have started to read your Get Out of Your Mind...book There are number of things I have struggled with over the years with regard to my problem which I do not yet understand how ACT will help To all intents and purposes from an outsiders point of view my life is moving forward - I'm married, 3 kids, good job etc. So I would say that in every other aspect of my life things have moved forward, but not my OCD, anxiety, depression Whenever I try to set about "doing something about it" my mind throws up lots of reason why it will never work for me - "all these other people aren't as bad as you", "you're the worst there is" "you'll never get better" etc etc. To which I fight, struggle, answer because I feel I should not be thinking in this way - even though as I am learning I have no control over what I think. So when I presnt my mind with the "what if I will just live with or without the anxiety" it immediately fires back with "yeah but the anxiety will get so bad that you will not be able to function" or some similar negative answer. There always seems to be a retort from my mind that puts me down and works against me - almost aggressively - seemingly my mind is intent on harming me rather than protecting me? Also, it's very difficult to derive any pleasure from life when your mind is working against you in this way. It's like there's a monster continually knocking you down. I guess that's been my yardstick - if I'm feeling OK life is great (regardless of what's going on in my life as long as I'm feeling OK all is well). Conversely, when I'm feeling like I am now all is bad (because I feel the way I do). So moving away from this idea to one that is focused on values would help I also think a key part of my problem is a reluctance to take repsonsibility for myself and my problems. It's easier to ask for reassurance than deal with the anxiety myself - experiential avoidance I suppose. Well off to read the book now Once again, many thanks T To: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Wednesday, 8 October, 2008 16:48:00Subject: Re: Sensitised Where are you as a conscious human being when youthink "Again, I'd be interested to know how the ACT approach would deal with this. Do I accept these feelings as unpleasant and that's it" ?As you have these thoughts, who has them?As you host these thoughts, who is hosting them?As you are aware of these thoughts, who is aware of them?Inside the network of your mind there is no solution.You can't successfully negotiate with how things work on the grounds ofyour misery ("It's very tiring and debilitating.") because your mind ismindlessly doing what minds do. It cannot stop. You can.Hundreds of people on this very list have learned how.If you can find that detached and mindful sense of yourself see if it isn't so that this part of you can choose to attend or not.Every moment you spend focused on getting the anxiety to go away,or evaluating it, or negotiating with it is another moment of your life put on hold. What if the next moment could be about what you most deeply value, anxiety or not?OK that is one moment. What is the next moment after that could be about what you most deeply value, anxiety or not?OK, that is two moments. What if these choices were truly about living notabout getting anxiety to go away. With enough moments like that your life is moving and it really, truly is no longerabout anxiety, whether or not there is anxiety. This is not hard in an effortful sense ... it is hard in a tricky sense.That is because your mind is a problem solving organ and yourlife is not a problem to be solved.These words will not help unless you've done enough to have some of theelements in place in an experiential way. Have you? Read the books / do theexercises / push against it / see how it works.It can't be a simple verbal formula because guess which organ deals with verbal formulae?"I used to think that my mind was my most important organ ....until I notice which organ was telling me that."Once some of the experiential elements are in place, thewords on the screen can bump you just enough to connect withyour experience.AcceptChoose Take valued actionNotice the thoughts and feelingsNotice who is noticingLet go of the struggleConnect with what you want to be aboutMoveThey aren't verbal formulae anymore than"here is how to balance on one foot" isreally how people learn to balance on one footHard-tricky, not hard-effortfulGive yourself time.The group will help but it will only help when it begins to build on experiences those words are aboutWe are rooting for you- S C. Foundation ProfessorDepartment of Psychology /298University of NevadaReno, NV 89557-0062hayes@... or stevenchayes@ gmail.comFax: Context Press (you can use for messages): (www.contextpress. com)If you want my vita, publications, PowerPoint slides, go to http://www.contextu alpsychology. org/blog/ steven_hayes If you are a professional or student and want to be part of the world wide ACT discussion or RFT discussions go to http://health. groups.yahoo. com/group/ acceptanceandcom mitmenttherapy/ joinorhttp://health. groups.yahoo. com/group/ relationalframet heory/joinIf you are a member of the public reading ACT self-help books (e.g., "Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life" etc) go to: http://health. groups.yahoo. com/group/ ACT_for_the_ Public/join On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:16 AM, weimer1uk <weimer1ukyahoo (DOT) co.uk> wrote: Hi allI find that my nerves are very sensitised through my constant thinking of unpleasant, obsessional thoughts / fears. It's very tiring and debilitating. This means that any negative thought is felt at a physical level and that I feel close to panic most of the time. Again, I'd be interested to know how the ACT approach would deal with this. Do I accept these feelings as unpleasant and that's it? I guess i notice them, which gets me more anxious which makes me more sensitised etc etc. I recognise that I have no control over the thoughts and their frequency - although I have very much been trying to get rid of them (experiential avoidance I guess)which has made things worse. I find breaking the cycle difficult to achieve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 Hi Steve, Amen---picking up GOOYMAIYL was the beginning of a paradigm shift that changed everything---and it only gets better! Gratefully, Don Re: Sensitised Where are you as a conscious human being when youthink "Again, I'd be interested to know how the ACT approach would deal with this. Do I accept these feelings as unpleasant and that's it" ?As you have these thoughts, who has them?As you host these thoughts, who is hosting them?As you are aware of these thoughts, who is aware of them?Inside the network of your mind there is no solution.You can't successfully negotiate with how things work on the grounds ofyour misery ("It's very tiring and debilitating.") because your mind ismindlessly doing what minds do. It cannot stop. You can.Hundreds of people on this very list have learned how.If you can find that detached and mindful sense of yourself see if it isn't so that this part of you can choose to attend or not.Every moment you spend focused on getting the anxiety to go away,or evaluating it, or negotiating with it is another moment of your life put on hold. What if the next moment could be about what you most deeply value, anxiety or not?OK that is one moment. What is the next moment after that could be about what you most deeply value, anxiety or not?OK, that is two moments. What if these choices were truly about living notabout getting anxiety to go away. With enough moments like that your life is moving and it really, truly is no longerabout anxiety, whether or not there is anxiety. This is not hard in an effortful sense ... it is hard in a tricky sense.That is because your mind is a problem solving organ and yourlife is not a problem to be solved.These words will not help unless you've done enough to have some of theelements in place in an experiential way. Have you? Read the books / do theexercises / push against it / see how it works.It can't be a simple verbal formula because guess which organ deals with verbal formulae?"I used to think that my mind was my most important organ ....until I notice which organ was telling me that."Once some of the experiential elements are in place, thewords on the screen can bump you just enough to connect withyour experience.AcceptChoose Take valued actionNotice the thoughts and feelingsNotice who is noticingLet go of the struggleConnect with what you want to be aboutMoveThey aren't verbal formulae anymore than"here is how to balance on one foot" isreally how people learn to balance on one footHard-tricky, not hard-effortfulGive yourself time.The group will help but it will only help when it begins to build on experiences those words are aboutWe are rooting for you- S C. Foundation ProfessorDepartment of Psychology /298University of NevadaReno, NV 89557-0062hayes@... or stevenchayesgmailFax: Context Press (you can use for messages): (www.contextpress.com)If you want my vita, publications, PowerPoint slides, go to http://www.contextualpsychology.org/blog/steven_hayes If you are a professional or student and want to be part of the world wide ACT discussion or RFT discussions go to http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/acceptanceandcommitmenttherapy/joinorhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/relationalframetheory/joinIf you are a member of the public reading ACT self-help books (e.g., "Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life" etc) go to: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/join On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 7:16 AM, weimer1uk <weimer1ukyahoo (DOT) co.uk> wrote: Hi allI find that my nerves are very sensitised through my constant thinking of unpleasant, obsessional thoughts / fears. It's very tiring and debilitating. This means that any negative thought is felt at a physical level and that I feel close to panic most of the time. Again, I'd be interested to know how the ACT approach would deal with this. Do I accept these feelings as unpleasant and that's it? I guess i notice them, which gets me more anxious which makes me more sensitised etc etc. I recognise that I have no control over the thoughts and their frequency - although I have very much been trying to get rid of them (experiential avoidance I guess)which has made things worse. I find breaking the cycle difficult to achieve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2008 Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 Understanding will only help keep you stuck. Understanding is realm of the mind. It needs to understand, and will tell you that it is nessecary. Don't buy it. When you think you understand ACT that's when you know you don't. I relate to you're post. My mind does the same thing. That is it's job. Thank God. What a marvelous tool we have. As long as it is used as a tool. When we turn ourselves over to it, is when we get into trouble. If your just starting the book, most find that reading it through one time before doing any of the exercises seems to work best. Then go through it again and do the exercises you can. Don't get hung up on them. If you get stuck on one, put it aside and move on to something else. I think I have gone through it 5 or 6 time already, and will pick it up and review certain parts once in a while. Have a great experience. Greg > > Hi all > > I find that my nerves are very sensitised through my constant thinking > of unpleasant, obsessional thoughts / fears. It's very tiring and > debilitating. This means that any negative thought is felt at a > physical level and that I feel close to panic most of the time. > Again, I'd be interested to know how the ACT approach would deal with > this. Do I accept these feelings as unpleasant and that's it? I > guess i notice them, which gets me more anxious which makes me more > sensitised etc etc. I recognise that I have no control over the > thoughts and their frequency - although I have very much been trying > to get rid of them (experiential avoidance I guess)which has made > things worse. I find breaking the cycle difficult to achieve. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.