Re: Avoidance behavior-tricky question

[Guest guest]

I don't think a few drinks are bad for the brain. In fact, studies have shown some benefit. But a lot of drinks certainly are bad. Scientifically, alcohol is a depressant but in the short term it can have the opposite effect. I don't think drinking makes you depressed. But if you are depressed, drinking can relieve the symptoms and if it works too well, you are in real danger of developing alcohol dependence.I understand that you are trying to break through your fears of things and activities. But I don't think drinking is an activity you want to force yourself to do. You might find you like it too much.Happy Halloween,BruceI was treated by a therapist two years ago for agoraphobia and panicattacks. During the height of my struggles and coming off of meds Ihad a bought of what she called Major Depression. Only until recentlyhave I discovered that my old therapist followed alot of what ACT isall about. We practiced acceptance and living life in a valueddirection, but she excluded things like mindfulness etc.(btw I saw shewas mentioned in an ACT book as a 'student.' Her name is Sigmon...ring a bell Dr. ?) Anyways when I left her after myfinal 'exposure' if you will for agoraphobia (I flew across country)the one thing I was terrfied of returning was depression. And, as Dr. points out, if you dont want something you will get it. Sureenough, and over the past two years I've gone in and out of weeks ofdepression, then weeks of feeling normal. I am expecially terrified ofdepression because my grandfather commited suicide and through myrecearch (dont we all) I fond out its genetic/determined by sex etc.Anyways so I am an emotion watcher, when any negative emotion comes upI despair and fall right back into the two week on again off againcycle. I am working through GOOYMITYL and find it extrememly helpful,a breath of fresh air. My question is, I've stopped alot of myavoidance behaviors after seeing my first therapist. And I've workedon other avoidance behaviors recently (listening to sad music etc.)but here's one that is stumping me: I try to avoid alcohol becauseI've heard it causes depression. I am in college right now, and whileI dont particularly like drinking all that much, I feel most of myavoidance is in the fact that it 'makes you depressed.' So tonight ishalloween, should I thank my mind for the warning and then go have afew drinks? Or is alcohol that bad for the brain? Is it good to avoidit? Thank you. Like I said I'm slowly working through the book. haha 

[Guest guest]

I think it's interesting that you mention two blocks of ten years. I am coming on on 10 years of depression and anxiety and I'm really tired of it. I sometimes say to myself "I've been depressed for ten years and I'm tired of it!" and that sometimes helps a bit.My boss was also depressed for ten years over adoption issues. So maybe this is our year to get free!I must say I'm bothered by the books that say you can recover in a few weeks or once you realize X, you'll be cured. I've tried all kinds of therapy, exercise, reading, etc. and I still feel bad and constricted. At least ACT says it's a long-term process.Thanks,BruceHi Robyn,  that is downright crock.   You don't just show post-abuse "signs of schizophrenia", but your anxiety may well increase, obviously!  I am sorry you were involved with such an incompetent, damaging therapist. I was in a physically abusive relationship for ten years and verbally abusive ones for many more (not counting the childhood abuse).  After I finally got out of the physically abusive one, with the help of a talented therapist, my primary diagnosis of major depression did not change, but I had changed in my personality somewhat.  I went from meek to angry to the extent of pushing people away, trusting no one.  It took months for me to trust my therapist.  Apparently, that was a necessary next step in my healing.  Before, I couldn't feel anger; it was all repressed. Now, some 10 years later, most of which I spent in self-imposed isolation, I am re-learning how to relate to people and am making new friends.  ACT is helping me to become balanced and to accept myself as I am, and others as well, mostly by practicing mindfulness on a daily basis.  And I mean "practice"--it is a process, even though I want it all RIGHT NOW!  Helena  Avoidance behavior-tricky question> > > > > > > > > I was treated by a therapist two years ago for agoraphobia and panic> > > attacks. During the height of my struggles and coming off of meds I> > > had a bought of what she called Major Depression. Only until recently> > > have I discovered that my old therapist followed alot of what ACT is> > > all about. We practiced acceptance and living life in a valued> > > direction, but she excluded things like mindfulness etc.(btw I saw she> > > was mentioned in an ACT book as a 'student.' Her name is > > > Sigmon...ring a bell Dr. ?) Anyways when I left her after my> > > final 'exposure' if you will for agoraphobia (I flew across country)> > > the one thing I was terrfied of returning was depression. And, as Dr.> > > points out, if you dont want something you will get it. Sure> > > enough, and over the past two years I've gone in and out of weeks of> > > depression, then weeks of feeling normal. I am expecially terrified of> > > depression because my grandfather commited suicide and through my> > > recearch (dont we all) I fond out its genetic/determined by sex etc.> > > Anyways so I am an emotion watcher, when any negative emotion comes up> > > I despair and fall right back into the two week on again off again> > > cycle. I am working through GOOYMITYL and find it extrememly helpful,> > > a breath of fresh air. My question is, I've stopped alot of my> > > avoidance behaviors after seeing my first therapist. And I've worked> > > on other avoidance behaviors recently (listening to sad music etc.)> > > but here's one that is stumping me: I try to avoid alcohol because> > > I've heard it causes depression. I am in college right now, and while> > > I dont particularly like drinking all that much, I feel most of my> > > avoidance is in the fact that it 'makes you depressed.' So tonight is> > > halloween, should I thank my mind for the warning and then go have a> > > few drinks? Or is alcohol that bad for the brain? Is it good to avoid> > > it? Thank you. Like I said I'm slowly working through the book. haha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > 

[Guest guest]

If you don't like drinking that much and drinking is not a part of you living a valued life, why would you drink? Maybe not drinking is not avoidance. Maybe your mind is presenting a helpful thought - don't drink. If so pay attention to it. From time to time our thinking self will present a useful thought. The secret is to recognize them and buy them. Bouncing them off of your values might be a good way to "sort" your thoughts.

Congratulations on your hard work and success. Keep it up. Bill

Avoidance behavior-tricky question

I was treated by a therapist two years ago for agoraphobia and panicattacks. During the height of my struggles and coming off of meds Ihad a bought of what she called Major Depression. Only until recentlyhave I discovered that my old therapist followed alot of what ACT isall about. We practiced acceptance and living life in a valueddirection, but she excluded things like mindfulness etc.(btw I saw shewas mentioned in an ACT book as a 'student.' Her name is Sigmon...ring a bell Dr. ?) Anyways when I left her after myfinal 'exposure' if you will for agoraphobia (I flew across country)the one thing I was terrfied of returning was depression. And, as Dr. points out, if you dont want something you will get it. Sureenough, and over the past two years I've gone in and out of weeks ofdepression, then weeks of feeling normal. I am expecially terrified ofdepression because my grandfather commited suicide and through myrecearch (dont we all) I fond out its genetic/determined by sex etc.Anyways so I am an emotion watcher, when any negative emotion comes upI despair and fall right back into the two week on again off againcycle. I am working through GOOYMITYL and find it extrememly helpful,a breath of fresh air. My question is, I've stopped alot of myavoidance behaviors after seeing my first therapist. And I've workedon other avoidance behaviors recently (listening to sad music etc.)but here's one that is stumping me: I try to avoid alcohol becauseI've heard it causes depression. I am in college right now, and whileI dont particularly like drinking all that much, I feel most of myavoidance is in the fact that it 'makes you depressed.' So tonight ishalloween, should I thank my mind for the warning and then go have afew drinks? Or is alcohol that bad for the brain? Is it good to avoidit? Thank you. Like I said I'm slowly working through the book. haha

[Guest guest]

HiYou've made great progress. Inspiring!!!If you would like to take a drink and it's in moderation - what's wrong with that? If deep down you think "I'd like to have a couple of drinks with my friends just like they do". Personally, I think that is fine. Can a couple of drinks damage our minds? For me, no, I don't think it can. Will a couple of drinks make us feel more depressed? Who knows - perhaps you will have felt depressed anyway. A couple drinks in the scheme of things is neither here or nor there. Your long term well being doesn't hinge on whether you take a couple of drinks or not tonight. Sure you might wake up in the morning feeling depressed? Perhaps you would have woken up feeling depressed anyway, or if

you had had a pizza or taken too much Coke. OK - so we can't drink coffee because that's got caffeine, hamburgers are bad because (whatever reason they are bad), eggs are bad because there's too much cholesterol, white bread is bad etc etc etc I'm not advocating drinking to excess and I'm not saying it will in any way help the depression or anxiety, but if you go into with your eyes open - "I'm going to have a couple of drinks because I want to", for me that's fine. If it moves you towards a value of, let's say "being more sociable". Fine by me. Don't make it an avoidance behaviour (hiding beind the alcohol). If you are not keen to drink but feel under pressure to do so - that's different... Don't do anything that doesn't feel right to youLet me know how it goesTTo: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Friday, 31 October, 2008 13:31:46Subject: Avoidance behavior-tricky question

I was treated by a therapist two years ago for agoraphobia and panic

attacks. During the height of my struggles and coming off of meds I

had a bought of what she called Major Depression. Only until recently

have I discovered that my old therapist followed alot of what ACT is

all about. We practiced acceptance and living life in a valued

direction, but she excluded things like mindfulness etc.(btw I saw she

was mentioned in an ACT book as a 'student.' Her name is

Sigmon...ring a bell Dr. ?) Anyways when I left her after my

final 'exposure' if you will for agoraphobia (I flew across country)

the one thing I was terrfied of returning was depression. And, as Dr.

points out, if you dont want something you will get it. Sure

enough, and over the past two years I've gone in and out of weeks of

depression, then weeks of feeling normal. I am expecially terrified of

depression because my grandfather commited suicide and through my

recearch (dont we all) I fond out its genetic/determined by sex etc.

Anyways so I am an emotion watcher, when any negative emotion comes up

I despair and fall right back into the two week on again off again

cycle. I am working through GOOYMITYL and find it extrememly helpful,

a breath of fresh air. My question is, I've stopped alot of my

avoidance behaviors after seeing my first therapist. And I've worked

on other avoidance behaviors recently (listening to sad music etc.)

but here's one that is stumping me: I try to avoid alcohol because

I've heard it causes depression. I am in college right now, and while

I dont particularly like drinking all that much, I feel most of my

avoidance is in the fact that it 'makes you depressed.' So tonight is

halloween, should I thank my mind for the warning and then go have a

few drinks? Or is alcohol that bad for the brain? Is it good to avoid

it? Thank you. Like I said I'm slowly working through the book. haha

[Guest guest]

HI,

Here is what I think. I too have agoraphobia issues but in my case my therapist

made me worse by scaring me with depression and other things. I was never

afraid of it until I started seeing my last therapist. She scared me by telling

me I was depressed among other scary stuff. . I didn't think I was before

meeting her. So, I guess the point is we are what we think we are? The fact

that you are afraid of it tells me it is just a fear. Same with the drinking

thing. It is perfectly understandable that you would be afraid of depression

becuase of what your family member did. I think that the reason you might be

avoiding alcohol, is just because of that other fear. We all make choices and

I don't believe alot of the genetics thing. I have a very screwed up family and

I mad the choice of not being like them. Genetics don't make our choices for

us. Genetics don't make us just suddenly do something like that. I think the

alcohol thing could just be a fear and you can slow

ly face that fear too.

It seems understandable to me that you would be afraid. Alcohol doesn't cause

depression but alcoholism does. I wouldn't go just start drinking, I suspect

that would cause fear but maybe slowly try a little.

I have the same sort of issues too and am working at facing my fears too.

I remember a gal that had anxiety and agoraphobia who said that she was afraid

of her monthly period. (Sorry Guy

to be blunt) anyway, her doctor said she had that disorder that made her

period worse that others. I can' t remember the name of it. For a week before

she would talk about how it was coming and that she was going to be having her

bad time in a few days and it sort of crippled her during 2 weeks a month. I

don't fault her for this because I do the same thing with other stuff. But,

it is interesting that I could see it from my detached place.

I say this from experience. I was told all sort of stuff about myself that I

bought into. Knowing the truth doesn't make it go away but helps us to see that

it is fear. And then maybe we can face it when we know what it is .

Sending Sunshine.

Robyn

--------- Avoidance behavior-tricky question

I was treated by a therapist two years ago for agoraphobia and panic

attacks. During the height of my struggles and coming off of meds I

had a bought of what she called Major Depression. Only until recently

have I discovered that my old therapist followed alot of what ACT is

all about. We practiced acceptance and living life in a valued

direction, but she excluded things like mindfulness etc.(btw I saw she

was mentioned in an ACT book as a 'student.' Her name is

Sigmon...ring a bell Dr. ?) Anyways when I left her after my

final 'exposure' if you will for agoraphobia (I flew across country)

the one thing I was terrfied of returning was depression. And, as Dr.

points out, if you dont want something you will get it. Sure

enough, and over the past two years I've gone in and out of weeks of

depression, then weeks of feeling normal. I am expecially terrified of

depression because my grandfather commited suicide and through my

recearch (dont we all) I fond out its genetic/determined by sex etc.

Anyways so I am an emotion watcher, when any negative emotion comes up

I despair and fall right back into the two week on again off again

cycle. I am working through GOOYMITYL and find it extrememly helpful,

a breath of fresh air. My question is, I've stopped alot of my

avoidance behaviors after seeing my first therapist. And I've worked

on other avoidance behaviors recently (listening to sad music etc.)

but here's one that is stumping me: I try to avoid alcohol because

I've heard it causes depression. I am in college right now, and while

I dont particularly like drinking all that much, I feel most of my

avoidance is in the fact that it 'makes you depressed.' So tonight is

halloween, should I thank my mind for the warning and then go have a

few drinks? Or is alcohol that bad for the brain? Is it good to avoid

it? Thank you. Like I said I'm slowly working through the book. haha

[Guest guest]

Wow, thanks for the responses everyone. Yes, as an ex agoraphobic I

can tell you all who have this problem it can be overcome. It's funny

five years ago (I'm 22) I had my first panic attack and feared having

another one so bad I had them all the time. This lead to the

agoraphobia and so I ended up taking meds to escape the feeling.

Eventually I came off of them and worked my way through my agoraphobia

and a fear of schizophrenia(I had been obsessed with physical

hypochondriasis before) and then as I was about to sign off and end

therapy-after everything I had been through-I remembered depression. I

asked her 'what if it returns' and she said 'go to the hospital.'

haha..not the answer I was looking for. Anyways long story short ACT

fits me to a T. Finally someone who agrees with me that emotions can

come before a thought. I never really agreed with traditional CBT

(Feeling Good) and remember thinking the book made me more depressed

reading it as I didn't feel it applied to me. I really like

description of the quicksand, this is me. I have been trying to run

from these feelings, from my family's history (grandfather's death),

to the point where I can't outrun it. I need to accept it. I bought

the Happiness Trap and I heard this is a good one to start out with

before heading into book. So that is my plan. I've just read the

intro chapters to , why we suffer etc. I'm going to read

book and then return to .

As for the drinking, I can honestly say I would never develop

alcoholism. Alcohol has never really turned me on. Even when I'm

feeling good, it's always something I do to fit in. Tonight I am

dressing up as Superman. I was going to be Elvis but I didn't want to

be Vegas Elvis and sadly that is the only Elvis people would

recognize. haha.

Any Halloweiners out there tonight? haha

>

> HI,

>

> Here is what I think. I too have agoraphobia issues but in my case

my therapist made me worse by scaring me with depression and other

things. I was never afraid of it until I started seeing my last

therapist. She scared me by telling me I was depressed among other

scary stuff. . I didn't think I was before meeting her. So, I guess

the point is we are what we think we are? The fact that you are

afraid of it tells me it is just a fear. Same with the drinking

thing. It is perfectly understandable that you would be afraid of

depression becuase of what your family member did. I think that the

reason you might be avoiding alcohol, is just because of that other

fear. We all make choices and I don't believe alot of the genetics

thing. I have a very screwed up family and I mad the choice of not

being like them. Genetics don't make our choices for us. Genetics

don't make us just suddenly do something like that. I think the

alcohol thing could just be a fear and you can slow

> ly face that fear too.

>

> It seems understandable to me that you would be afraid. Alcohol

doesn't cause depression but alcoholism does. I wouldn't go just

start drinking, I suspect that would cause fear but maybe slowly try

a little.

>

> I have the same sort of issues too and am working at facing my

fears too.

>

> I remember a gal that had anxiety and agoraphobia who said that she

was afraid of her monthly period. (Sorry Guy

> to be blunt) anyway, her doctor said she had that disorder that

made her period worse that others. I can' t remember the name of it.

For a week before she would talk about how it was coming and that she

was going to be having her bad time in a few days and it sort of

crippled her during 2 weeks a month. I don't fault her for this

because I do the same thing with other stuff. But, it is

interesting that I could see it from my detached place.

>

> I say this from experience. I was told all sort of stuff about

myself that I bought into. Knowing the truth doesn't make it go away

but helps us to see that it is fear. And then maybe we can face it

when we know what it is .

>

>

> Sending Sunshine.

>

> Robyn

> --------- Avoidance behavior-tricky question

> >

> >

> > I was treated by a therapist two years ago for agoraphobia and panic

> > attacks. During the height of my struggles and coming off of meds I

> > had a bought of what she called Major Depression. Only until recently

> > have I discovered that my old therapist followed alot of what ACT is

> > all about. We practiced acceptance and living life in a valued

> > direction, but she excluded things like mindfulness etc.(btw I saw she

> > was mentioned in an ACT book as a 'student.' Her name is

> > Sigmon...ring a bell Dr. ?) Anyways when I left her after my

> > final 'exposure' if you will for agoraphobia (I flew across country)

> > the one thing I was terrfied of returning was depression. And, as Dr.

> > points out, if you dont want something you will get it. Sure

> > enough, and over the past two years I've gone in and out of weeks of

> > depression, then weeks of feeling normal. I am expecially terrified of

> > depression because my grandfather commited suicide and through my

> > recearch (dont we all) I fond out its genetic/determined by sex etc.

> > Anyways so I am an emotion watcher, when any negative emotion comes up

> > I despair and fall right back into the two week on again off again

> > cycle. I am working through GOOYMITYL and find it extrememly helpful,

> > a breath of fresh air. My question is, I've stopped alot of my

> > avoidance behaviors after seeing my first therapist. And I've worked

> > on other avoidance behaviors recently (listening to sad music etc.)

> > but here's one that is stumping me: I try to avoid alcohol because

> > I've heard it causes depression. I am in college right now, and while

> > I dont particularly like drinking all that much, I feel most of my

> > avoidance is in the fact that it 'makes you depressed.' So tonight is

> > halloween, should I thank my mind for the warning and then go have a

> > few drinks? Or is alcohol that bad for the brain? Is it good to avoid

> > it? Thank you. Like I said I'm slowly working through the book. haha

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I too have a fear of mental illness and Schizophrenia. So what did my now

known, incompetent therpapist told me that women that have been abused will show

signs of schizophrenia when they first get out of an abusive relationship. This

made my anxiety worse. Then she used the fact that I was anxious as proof that

I had all kinds of stuff. I am even nervous mentioning this here because I

don't want everyone to believe her. I will say that I had a therapist before

her that was fabulous and he got me to where I had very little anxiety.

I am learning to face that fear, it takes time. I am glad you are getting

better. Go to a hospital, if you have depression? Incompetent therapists are

a problem. It is sort of scary.

Robyn

--------- Avoidance behavior-tricky question

> >

> >

> > I was treated by a therapist two years ago for agoraphobia and panic

> > attacks. During the height of my struggles and coming off of meds I

> > had a bought of what she called Major Depression. Only until recently

> > have I discovered that my old therapist followed alot of what ACT is

> > all about. We practiced acceptance and living life in a valued

> > direction, but she excluded things like mindfulness etc.(btw I saw she

> > was mentioned in an ACT book as a 'student.' Her name is

> > Sigmon...ring a bell Dr. ?) Anyways when I left her after my

> > final 'exposure' if you will for agoraphobia (I flew across country)

> > the one thing I was terrfied of returning was depression. And, as Dr.

> > points out, if you dont want something you will get it. Sure

> > enough, and over the past two years I've gone in and out of weeks of

> > depression, then weeks of feeling normal. I am expecially terrified of

> > depression because my grandfather commited suicide and through my

> > recearch (dont we all) I fond out its genetic/determined by sex etc.

> > Anyways so I am an emotion watcher, when any negative emotion comes up

> > I despair and fall right back into the two week on again off again

> > cycle. I am working through GOOYMITYL and find it extrememly helpful,

> > a breath of fresh air. My question is, I've stopped alot of my

> > avoidance behaviors after seeing my first therapist. And I've worked

> > on other avoidance behaviors recently (listening to sad music etc.)

> > but here's one that is stumping me: I try to avoid alcohol because

> > I've heard it causes depression. I am in college right now, and while

> > I dont particularly like drinking all that much, I feel most of my

> > avoidance is in the fact that it 'makes you depressed.' So tonight is

> > halloween, should I thank my mind for the warning and then go have a

> > few drinks? Or is alcohol that bad for the brain? Is it good to avoid

> > it? Thank you. Like I said I'm slowly working through the book. haha

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Be sure to practice, practice, practice THT exercises. They are designed to build new habits. There are no shortcuts. Happy Halloween.

Bill

Avoidance behavior-tricky question> > > > > > I was treated by a therapist two years ago for agoraphobia and panic> > attacks. During the height of my struggles and coming off of meds I> > had a bought of what she called Major Depression. Only until recently> > have I discovered that my old therapist followed alot of what ACT is> > all about. We practiced acceptance and living life in a valued> > direction, but she excluded things like mindfulness etc.(btw I saw she> > was mentioned in an ACT book as a 'student.' Her name is > > Sigmon...ring a bell Dr. ?) Anyways when I left her after my> > final 'exposure' if you will for agoraphobia (I flew across country)> > the one thing I was terrfied of returning was depression. And, as Dr.> > points out, if you dont want something you will get it. Sure> > enough, and over the past two years I've gone in and out of weeks of> > depression, then weeks of feeling normal. I am expecially terrified of> > depression because my grandfather commited suicide and through my> > recearch (dont we all) I fond out its genetic/determined by sex etc.> > Anyways so I am an emotion watcher, when any negative emotion comes up> > I despair and fall right back into the two week on again off again> > cycle. I am working through GOOYMITYL and find it extrememly helpful,> > a breath of fresh air. My question is, I've stopped alot of my> > avoidance behaviors after seeing my first therapist. And I've worked> > on other avoidance behaviors recently (listening to sad music etc.)> > but here's one that is stumping me: I try to avoid alcohol because> > I've heard it causes depression. I am in college right now, and while> > I dont particularly like drinking all that much, I feel most of my> > avoidance is in the fact that it 'makes you depressed.' So tonight is> > halloween, should I thank my mind for the warning and then go have a> > few drinks? Or is alcohol that bad for the brain? Is it good to avoid> > it? Thank you. Like I said I'm slowly working through the book. haha > > > > > > > > > >>

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi,

>

> I too have a fear of mental illness and Schizophrenia. So what did

my now known, incompetent therpapist told me that women that have been

abused will show signs of schizophrenia when they first get out of an

abusive relationship. This made my anxiety worse. Then she used the

fact that I was anxious as proof that I had all kinds of stuff. I am

even nervous mentioning this here because I don't want everyone to

believe her. I will say that I had a therapist before her that was

fabulous and he got me to where I had very little anxiety.

I hope you don't mind my saying this, Robyn, but it sounds to me as

though you need to drop that therapist asap.

Louise

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Thanks for that. I followed this horrible therapist for over 5 years and just

dropped her last February. It wasn't easy either. It is a long story. I am

just starting to get my head back together. Thanks for your email.

Robyn

-------------- Original message ----------------------

>

>

> Hi,

>

> I too have a fear of mental illness and Schizophrenia. So what did

my now known, incompetent therpapist told me that women that have been

abused will show signs of schizophrenia when they first get out of an

abusive relationship. This made my anxiety worse. Then she used the

fact that I was anxious as proof that I had all kinds of stuff. I am

even nervous mentioning this here because I don't want everyone to

believe her. I will say that I had a therapist before her that was

fabulous and he got me to where I had very little anxiety.

I hope you don't mind my saying this, Robyn, but it sounds to me as

though you need to drop that therapist asap.

Louise

[Guest guest]

Hi Robyn, that is downright crock. You don't just show post-abuse "signs of schizophrenia", but your anxiety may well increase, obviously! I am sorry you were involved with such an incompetent, damaging therapist.

I was in a physically abusive relationship for ten years and verbally abusive ones for many more (not counting the childhood abuse). After I finally got out of the physically abusive one, with the help of a talented therapist, my primary diagnosis of major depression did not change, but I had changed in my personality somewhat. I went from meek to angry to the extent of pushing people away, trusting no one. It took months for me to trust my therapist. Apparently, that was a necessary next step in my healing. Before, I couldn't feel anger; it was all repressed.

Now, some 10 years later, most of which I spent in self-imposed isolation, I am re-learning how to relate to people and am making new friends. ACT is helping me to become balanced and to accept myself as I am, and others as well, mostly by practicing mindfulness on a daily basis. And I mean "practice"--it is a process, even though I want it all RIGHT NOW!

Helena

Avoidance behavior-tricky question> > > > > > > > > I was treated by a therapist two years ago for agoraphobia and panic> > > attacks. During the height of my struggles and coming off of meds I> > > had a bought of what she called Major Depression. Only until recently> > > have I discovered that my old therapist followed alot of what ACT is> > > all about. We practiced acceptance and living life in a valued> > > direction, but she excluded things like mindfulness etc.(btw I saw she> > > was mentioned in an ACT book as a 'student.' Her name is > > > Sigmon...ring a bell Dr. ?) Anyways when I left her after my> > > final 'exposure' if you will for agoraphobia (I flew across country)> > > the one thing I was terrfied of returning was depression. And, as Dr.> > > points out, if you dont want something you will get it. Sure> > > enough, and over the past two years I've gone in and out of weeks of> > > depression, then weeks of feeling normal. I am expecially terrified of> > > depression because my grandfather commited suicide and through my> > > recearch (dont we all) I fond out its genetic/determined by sex etc.> > > Anyways so I am an emotion watcher, when any negative emotion comes up> > > I despair and fall right back into the two week on again off again> > > cycle. I am working through GOOYMITYL and find it extrememly helpful,> > > a breath of fresh air. My question is, I've stopped alot of my> > > avoidance behaviors after seeing my first therapist. And I've worked> > > on other avoidance behaviors recently (listening to sad music etc.)> > > but here's one that is stumping me: I try to avoid alcohol because> > > I've heard it causes depression. I am in college right now, and while> > > I dont particularly like drinking all that much, I feel most of my> > > avoidance is in the fact that it 'makes you depressed.' So tonight is> > > halloween, should I thank my mind for the warning and then go have a> > > few drinks? Or is alcohol that bad for the brain? Is it good to avoid> > > it? Thank you. Like I said I'm slowly working through the book. haha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > >

[Guest guest]

I think that is great advice, Bruce. Why let in a potential demon? I speak from personal experience. Although depressed all my life, I occasionally drank lightly for years and never thought the hook would get me. But it did, during the years I spent with an abusive alcoholic boyfriend. I did what he did -- drank a lot and started smoking to boot. How I wish I could turn back the clock on that one. I have since quit smoking and drink very little, and I probably shouldn't drink at all since I know I am vulnerable.

Best,

Helena

-- Original Message -----

From: Bruce Carlson

To: ACT_for_the_Public

Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2037 11:11 AM

Subject: Re: Avoidance behavior-tricky question

I don't think a few drinks are bad for the brain. In fact, studies have shown some benefit. But a lot of drinks certainly are bad. Scientifically, alcohol is a depressant but in the short term it can have the opposite effect. I don't think drinking makes you depressed. But if you are depressed, drinking can relieve the symptoms and if it works too well, you are in real danger of developing alcohol dependence.

I understand that you are trying to break through your fears of things and activities. But I don't think drinking is an activity you want to force yourself to do. You might find you like it too much.

Happy Halloween,

Bruce

I was treated by a therapist two years ago for agoraphobia and panicattacks. During the height of my struggles and coming off of meds Ihad a bought of what she called Major Depression. Only until recentlyhave I discovered that my old therapist followed alot of what ACT isall about. We practiced acceptance and living life in a valueddirection, but she excluded things like mindfulness etc.(btw I saw shewas mentioned in an ACT book as a 'student.' Her name is Sigmon...ring a bell Dr. ?) Anyways when I left her after myfinal 'exposure' if you will for agoraphobia (I flew across country)the one thing I was terrfied of returning was depression. And, as Dr. points out, if you dont want something you will get it. Sureenough, and over the past two years I've gone in and out of weeks ofdepression, then weeks of feeling normal. I am expecially terrified ofdepression because my grandfather commited suicide and through myrecearch (dont we all) I fond out its genetic/determined by sex etc.Anyways so I am an emotion watcher, when any negative emotion comes upI despair and fall right back into the two week on again off againcycle. I am working through GOOYMITYL and find it extrememly helpful,a breath of fresh air. My question is, I've stopped alot of myavoidance behaviors after seeing my first therapist. And I've workedon other avoidance behaviors recently (listening to sad music etc.)but here's one that is stumping me: I try to avoid alcohol becauseI've heard it causes depression. I am in college right now, and whileI dont particularly like drinking all that much, I feel most of myavoidance is in the fact that it 'makes you depressed.' So tonight ishalloween, should I thank my mind for the warning and then go have afew drinks? Or is alcohol that bad for the brain? Is it good to avoidit? Thank you. Like I said I'm slowly working through the book. haha

[Guest guest]

Bruce, that was ten years in an abusive relationship. My depression has been with me for 50 years (I'm 62) with only brief bouts of relief, interspersed with shrinks, psychotropic drugs, suicide attempts, and hospitalizations. Now, with ACT, I think I am onto something that may work long-term. I'm feeling hopeful and not resigned for the first time in my crazy life!

Helena

Avoidance behavior-tricky question> > > > > > > > > I was treated by a therapist two years ago for agoraphobia and panic> > > attacks. During the height of my struggles and coming off of meds I> > > had a bought of what she called Major Depression. Only until recently> > > have I discovered that my old therapist followed alot of what ACT is> > > all about. We practiced acceptance and living life in a valued> > > direction, but she excluded things like mindfulness etc.(btw I saw she> > > was mentioned in an ACT book as a 'student.' Her name is > > > Sigmon...ring a bell Dr. ?) Anyways when I left her after my> > > final 'exposure' if you will for agoraphobia (I flew across country)> > > the one thing I was terrfied of returning was depression. And, as Dr.> > > points out, if you dont want something you will get it. Sure> > > enough, and over the past two years I've gone in and out of weeks of> > > depression, then weeks of feeling normal. I am expecially terrified of> > > depression because my grandfather commited suicide and through my> > > recearch (dont we all) I fond out its genetic/determined by sex etc.> > > Anyways so I am an emotion watcher, when any negative emotion comes up> > > I despair and fall right back into the two week on again off again> > > cycle. I am working through GOOYMITYL and find it extrememly helpful,> > > a breath of fresh air. My question is, I've stopped alot of my> > > avoidance behaviors after seeing my first therapist. And I've worked> > > on other avoidance behaviors recently (listening to sad music etc.)> > > but here's one that is stumping me: I try to avoid alcohol because> > > I've heard it causes depression. I am in college right now, and while> > > I dont particularly like drinking all that much, I feel most of my> > > avoidance is in the fact that it 'makes you depressed.' So tonight is> > > halloween, should I thank my mind for the warning and then go have a> > > few drinks? Or is alcohol that bad for the brain? Is it good to avoid> > > it? Thank you. Like I said I'm slowly working through the book. haha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > >

[Guest guest]

Hi Helena, I've just joined & read your message & found it very encouraging to hear that you are finding ACT hopeful. I'm 47 & have been battling for only 30 years & for most of them I didn't even know what was wrong with me, just that I felt I lived a crazy life like you have said. So to hear you say that your feeling hopeful after 50 years makes me feel I may have finally found the right path. It all seems to make so much sense. Thanks, Debbie

> > >> > > HI, > > > > > > Here is what I think. I too have agoraphobia issues but in my case> > my therapist made me worse by scaring me with depression and other> > things. I was never afraid of it until I started seeing my last> > therapist. She scared me by telling me I was depressed among other> > scary stuff. . I didn't think I was before meeting her. So, I guess> > the point is we are what we think we are? The fact that you are> > afraid of it tells me it is just a fear. Same with the drinking> > thing. It is perfectly understandable that you would be afraid of> > depression becuase of what your family member did. I think that the> > reason you might be avoiding alcohol, is just because of that other> > fear. We all make choices and I don't believe alot of the genetics> > thing. I have a very screwed up family and I mad the choice of not> > being like them. Genetics don't make our choices for us. Genetics> > don't make us just suddenly do something like that. I think the> > alcohol thing could just be a fear and you can slow> > > ly face that fear too. > > > > > > It seems understandable to me that you would be afraid. Alcohol> > doesn't cause depression but alcoholism does. I wouldn't go just> > start drinking, I suspect that would cause fear but maybe slowly try> > a little. > > > > > > I have the same sort of issues too and am working at facing my> > fears too. > > > > > > I remember a gal that had anxiety and agoraphobia who said that she> > was afraid of her monthly period. (Sorry Guy> > > to be blunt) anyway, her doctor said she had that disorder that> > made her period worse that others. I can' t remember the name of it. > > For a week before she would talk about how it was coming and that she> > was going to be having her bad time in a few days and it sort of> > crippled her during 2 weeks a month. I don't fault her for this> > because I do the same thing with other stuff. But, it is> > interesting that I could see it from my detached place. > > > > > > I say this from experience. I was told all sort of stuff about> > myself that I bought into. Knowing the truth doesn't make it go away> > but helps us to see that it is fear. And then maybe we can face it> > when we know what it is . > > > > > > > > > Sending Sunshine. > > > > > > Robyn > > > --------- Avoidance behavior-tricky question> > > > > > > > > > > > I was treated by a therapist two years ago for agoraphobia and panic> > > > attacks. During the height of my struggles and coming off of meds I> > > > had a bought of what she called Major Depression. Only until recently> > > > have I discovered that my old therapist followed alot of what ACT is> > > > all about. We practiced acceptance and living life in a valued> > > > direction, but she excluded things like mindfulness etc.(btw I saw she> > > > was mentioned in an ACT book as a 'student.' Her name is > > > > Sigmon...ring a bell Dr. ?) Anyways when I left her after my> > > > final 'exposure' if you will for agoraphobia (I flew across country)> > > > the one thing I was terrfied of returning was depression. And, as Dr.> > > > points out, if you dont want something you will get it. Sure> > > > enough, and over the past two years I've gone in and out of weeks of> > > > depression, then weeks of feeling normal. I am expecially terrified of> > > > depression because my grandfather commited suicide and through my> > > > recearch (dont we all) I fond out its genetic/determined by sex etc.> > > > Anyways so I am an emotion watcher, when any negative emotion comes up> > > > I despair and fall right back into the two week on again off again> > > > cycle. I am working through GOOYMITYL and find it extrememly helpful,> > > > a breath of fresh air. My question is, I've stopped alot of my> > > > avoidance behaviors after seeing my first therapist. And I've worked> > > > on other avoidance behaviors recently (listening to sad music etc.)> > > > but here's one that is stumping me: I try to avoid alcohol because> > > > I've heard it causes depression. I am in college right now, and while> > > > I dont particularly like drinking all that much, I feel most of my> > > > avoidance is in the fact that it 'makes you depressed.' So tonight is> > > > halloween, should I thank my mind for the warning and then go have a> > > > few drinks? Or is alcohol that bad for the brain? Is it good to avoid> > > > it? Thank you. Like I said I'm slowly working through the book. haha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > >>

[Guest guest]

Debbie, I can't tell you how much it means to me that you found my remarks encouraging! Thanks for telling me that. This is a great group and I've learned a lot here and have received much support. I hope you have a positive experience as well. We are in this together!Helena

Avoidance behavior-tricky question> > > > > > > > > > > > I was treated by a therapist two years ago for agoraphobia and panic> > > > attacks. During the height of my struggles and coming off of meds I> > > > had a bought of what she called Major Depression. Only until recently> > > > have I discovered that my old therapist followed alot of what ACT is> > > > all about. We practiced acceptance and living life in a valued> > > > direction, but she excluded things like mindfulness etc.(btw I saw she> > > > was mentioned in an ACT book as a 'student.' Her name is > > > > Sigmon...ring a bell Dr. ?) Anyways when I left her after my> > > > final 'exposure' if you will for agoraphobia (I flew across country)> > > > the one thing I was terrfied of returning was depression. And, as Dr.> > > > points out, if you dont want something you will get it. Sure> > > > enough, and over the past two years I've gone in and out of weeks of> > > > depression, then weeks of feeling normal. I am expecially terrified of> > > > depression because my grandfather commited suicide and through my> > > > recearch (dont we all) I fond out its genetic/determined by sex etc.> > > > Anyways so I am an emotion watcher, when any negative emotion comes up> > > > I despair and fall right back into the two week on again off again> > > > cycle. I am working through GOOYMITYL and find it extrememly helpful,> > > > a breath of fresh air. My question is, I've stopped alot of my> > > > avoidance behaviors after seeing my first therapist. And I've worked> > > > on other avoidance behaviors recently (listening to sad music etc.)> > > > but here's one that is stumping me: I try to avoid alcohol because> > > > I've heard it causes depression. I am in college right now, and while> > > > I dont particularly like drinking all that much, I feel most of my> > > > avoidance is in the fact that it 'makes you depressed.' So tonight is> > > > halloween, should I thank my mind for the warning and then go have a> > > > few drinks? Or is alcohol that bad for the brain? Is it good to avoid> > > > it? Thank you. Like I said I'm slowly working through the book. haha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > >>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Helena, yes together Debbie

> > > >> > > > HI, > > > > > > > > Here is what I think. I too have agoraphobia issues but in my case> > > my therapist made me worse by scaring me with depression and other> > > things. I was never afraid of it until I started seeing my last> > > therapist. She scared me by telling me I was depressed among other> > > scary stuff. . I didn't think I was before meeting her. So, I guess> > > the point is we are what we think we are? The fact that you are> > > afraid of it tells me it is just a fear. Same with the drinking> > > thing. It is perfectly understandable that you would be afraid of> > > depression becuase of what your family member did. I think that the> > > reason you might be avoiding alcohol, is just because of that other> > > fear. We all make choices and I don't believe alot of the genetics> > > thing. I have a very screwed up family and I mad the choice of not> > > being like them. Genetics don't make our choices for us. Genetics> > > don't make us just suddenly do something like that. I think the> > > alcohol thing could just be a fear and you can slow> > > > ly face that fear too. > > > > > > > > It seems understandable to me that you would be afraid. Alcohol> > > doesn't cause depression but alcoholism does. I wouldn't go just> > > start drinking, I suspect that would cause fear but maybe slowly try> > > a little. > > > > > > > > I have the same sort of issues too and am working at facing my> > > fears too. > > > > > > > > I remember a gal that had anxiety and agoraphobia who said that she> > > was afraid of her monthly period. (Sorry Guy> > > > to be blunt) anyway, her doctor said she had that disorder that> > > made her period worse that others. I can' t remember the name of it. > > > For a week before she would talk about how it was coming and that she> > > was going to be having her bad time in a few days and it sort of> > > crippled her during 2 weeks a month. I don't fault her for this> > > because I do the same thing with other stuff. But, it is> > > interesting that I could see it from my detached place. > > > > > > > > I say this from experience. I was told all sort of stuff about> > > myself that I bought into. Knowing the truth doesn't make it go away> > > but helps us to see that it is fear. And then maybe we can face it> > > when we know what it is . > > > > > > > > > > > > Sending Sunshine. > > > > > > > > Robyn > > > > --------- Avoidance behavior-tricky question> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was treated by a therapist two years ago for agoraphobia and panic> > > > > attacks. During the height of my struggles and coming off of meds I> > > > > had a bought of what she called Major Depression. Only until recently> > > > > have I discovered that my old therapist followed alot of what ACT is> > > > > all about. We practiced acceptance and living life in a valued> > > > > direction, but she excluded things like mindfulness etc.(btw I saw she> > > > > was mentioned in an ACT book as a 'student.' Her name is > > > > > Sigmon...ring a bell Dr. ?) Anyways when I left her after my> > > > > final 'exposure' if you will for agoraphobia (I flew across country)> > > > > the one thing I was terrfied of returning was depression. And, as Dr.> > > > > points out, if you dont want something you will get it. Sure> > > > > enough, and over the past two years I've gone in and out of weeks of> > > > > depression, then weeks of feeling normal. I am expecially terrified of> > > > > depression because my grandfather commited suicide and through my> > > > > recearch (dont we all) I fond out its genetic/determined by sex etc.> > > > > Anyways so I am an emotion watcher, when any negative emotion comes up> > > > > I despair and fall right back into the two week on again off again> > > > > cycle. I am working through GOOYMITYL and find it extrememly helpful,> > > > > a breath of fresh air. My question is, I've stopped alot of my> > > > > avoidance behaviors after seeing my first therapist. And I've worked> > > > > on other avoidance behaviors recently (listening to sad music etc.)> > > > > but here's one that is stumping me: I try to avoid alcohol because> > > > > I've heard it causes depression. I am in college right now, and while> > > > > I dont particularly like drinking all that much, I feel most of my> > > > > avoidance is in the fact that it 'makes you depressed.' So tonight is> > > > > halloween, should I thank my mind for the warning and then go have a> > > > > few drinks? Or is alcohol that bad for the brain? Is it good to avoid> > > > > it? Thank you. Like I said I'm slowly working through the book. haha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > >> >>