Re: Panic Attack on Live TV

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

No offense but few people faint from Anxiety Attacks. It is funny because I am

talking from my wise mind right now. Usually I would be freaking out and

worried that would happen to me. I don't think it was a panic attack. Usually

people who have panic dont' faint.

Robyn

-------------- Original message ----------------------

> <act_for_the_public >

>

> Attorney General Mukasey had a panic attack on live television. I

> can't imagine what that must have been like for him. In reading news

> reports, although the exact words " panic attack " are not used, there are

> code words – he had a long day, the lights were hot, he seemed stressed

> earlier, etc. All his test results were made public, so the whole world

> knows he didn't have a physical problem.

>

>

>

> My heart goes out to him, I know how truly horrific it can feel to have a

> panic attack in front of one person – but on YouTube, to be subject to mean

> comments and weeks of humiliation? It's just not fair.

>

>

>

> I wish there was a way the ACT professional community could use this

> incident as a means of education about panic disorder and anxiety disorder,

> but I doubt Mukasey would go for it, maybe once he leaves office? It seems

> like such an opportunity wasted, think how many people could be helped if we

> could link what happened to what happens to everyone – if we can link it to

> the normal.

>

>

>

> The best thing about ACT is realizing that I'm normal, that everyone has

> fear thoughts, I just buy into them. Maybe this guy usually didn't buy into

> his fear thoughts, but during that speech he did, or maybe he's had this

> problem for awhile but hadn't had an attack in public, who knows.

>

>

>

> We have seen people with eating disorders seek treatment after celebrities

> give interviews and talk about it; I wish I could say the same for panic

> disorder. Steve has had severe panic disorder since he was 20. He

> writes about it in his book, and he doesn't talk about treatment. I think,

> honestly, he still has to deal with panic triggers 40 years later.

>

>

>

> Part of the problem that before ACT was introduced to the general public,

> the only treatment was drugs, and stars seem reluctant to talk about

> antidepressant use. Still, if ACT could " hitch " its wagon to a star, it

> could gain more notoriety and help a lot of people.

>

>

>

> I have a good friend who is a physician. Although he specializes in

> gastroenterology, when he encounters patients who have anxiety related

> issues he advocates meditation. When I told him about ACT and its approach

> to mediation, he was very impressed. Another way that ACT can become more

> established is through the medical community. Every doctor I've spoken to is

> incredibly impressed with ACT, because it promotes such a healthy and honest

> relationship with the body and its sensations. This might be a matter of

> simple marketing – create an " ACT Packet " and send to physicians with an

> interest in learning more about anxiety issues, who knows?

>

>

>

> Anyway, there's some food for thought. If there are any professional members

> in this public group who would be kind enough to forward this message to the

> professional group, I would appreciate it. Of course, I also welcome

> feedback from my compatriots in the public group as well.

>

>

>

> Thanks,

>

>

>

Attorney General Mukasey had a panic attack on live television. I can't imagine what that must have been like for him. In reading news reports, although the exact words "panic attack" are not used, there are code words – he had a long day, the lights were hot, he seemed stressed earlier, etc. All his test results were made public, so the whole world knows he didn't have a physical problem.

My heart goes out to him, I know how truly horrific it can feel to have a panic attack in front of one person – but on YouTube, to be subject to mean comments and weeks of humiliation? It's just not fair.

I wish there was a way the ACT professional community could use this incident as a means of education about panic disorder and anxiety disorder, but I doubt Mukasey would go for it, maybe once he leaves office? It seems like such an opportunity wasted, think how many people could be helped if we could link what happened to what happens to everyone – if we can link it to the normal.

The best thing about ACT is realizing that I'm normal, that everyone has fear thoughts, I just buy into them. Maybe this guy usually didn't buy into his fear thoughts, but during that speech he did, or maybe he's had this problem for awhile but hadn't had an attack in public, who knows.

We have seen people with eating disorders seek treatment after celebrities give interviews and talk about it; I wish I could say the same for panic disorder. Steve has had severe panic disorder since he was 20. He writes about it in his book, and he doesn't talk about treatment. I think, honestly, he still has to deal with panic triggers 40 years later.

Part of the problem that before ACT was introduced to the general public, the only treatment was drugs, and stars seem reluctant to talk about antidepressant use. Still, if ACT could "hitch" its wagon to a star, it could gain more notoriety and help a lot of people.

I have a good friend who is a physician. Although he specializes in gastroenterology, when he encounters patients who have anxiety related issues he advocates meditation. When I told him about ACT and its approach to mediation, he was very impressed. Another way that ACT can become more established is through the medical community. Every doctor I've spoken to is incredibly impressed with ACT, because it promotes such a healthy and honest relationship with the body and its sensations. This might be a matter of simple marketing – create an "ACT Packet" and send to physicians with an interest in learning more about anxiety issues, who knows?

Anyway, there's some food for thought. If there are any professional members in this public group who would be kind enough to forward this message to the professional group, I would appreciate it. Of course, I also welcome feedback from my compatriots in the public group as well.

Thanks,

[Guest guest]

I faint a lot from panic, Robyn. Indeed, almost any physical discomfort or ailment can be a panic symptom. Everyone is different.

Take a step back. What was my post about? It was about ways to bring ACT to more people who need it. If you have thoughts on that, I am genuniely interested in hearing them.

Thanks,

Please address the main point of my post - which is how this type of

Hi , No offense but few people faint from Anxiety Attacks. It is funny because I am talking from my wise mind right now. Usually I would be freaking out and worried that would happen to me. I don't think it was a panic attack. Usually people who have panic dont' faint.

Robyn --------- Panic Attack on Live TV

Attorney General Mukasey had a panic attack on live television. I can't imagine what that must have been like for him. In reading news reports, although the exact words " panic attack " are not used, there are code words – he had a long day, the lights were hot, he seemed stressed earlier, etc. All his test results were made public, so the whole world knows he didn't have a physical problem.

My heart goes out to him, I know how truly horrific it can feel to have a panic attack in front of one person – but on YouTube, to be subject to mean comments and weeks of humiliation? It's just not fair.

I wish there was a way the ACT professional community could use this incident as a means of education about panic disorder and anxiety disorder, but I doubt Mukasey would go for it, maybe once he leaves office? It seems like such an opportunity wasted, think how many people could be helped if we could link what happened to what happens to everyone – if we can link it to the normal.

The best thing about ACT is realizing that I'm normal, that everyone has fear thoughts, I just buy into them. Maybe this guy usually didn't buy into his fear thoughts, but during that speech he did, or maybe he's had this problem for awhile but hadn't had an attack in public, who knows.

We have seen people with eating disorders seek treatment after celebrities give interviews and talk about it; I wish I could say the same for panic disorder. Steve has had severe panic disorder since he was 20. He writes about it in his book, and he doesn't talk about treatment. I think, honestly, he still has to deal with panic triggers 40 years later.

Part of the problem that before ACT was introduced to the general public, the only treatment was drugs, and stars seem reluctant to talk about antidepressant use. Still, if ACT could " hitch " its wagon to a star, it could gain more notoriety and help a lot of people.

I have a good friend who is a physician. Although he specializes in gastroenterology, when he encounters patients who have anxiety related issues he advocates meditation. When I told him about ACT and its approach to mediation, he was very impressed. Another way that ACT can become more established is through the medical community. Every doctor I've spoken to is incredibly impressed with ACT, because it promotes such a healthy and honest relationship with the body and its sensations. This might be a matter of simple marketing – create an " ACT Packet " and send to physicians with an interest in learning more about anxiety issues, who knows?

Anyway, there's some food for thought. If there are any professional members in this public group who would be kind enough to forward this message to the professional group, I would appreciate it. Of course, I also welcome feedback from my compatriots in the public group as well.

Thanks,

[Guest guest]

Hi,

No steps back, just telling you that every book I have read on anxiety says it

is rare. And it is a fear of mine so I would prefer to believe the books. I

totally understand that you were being kind in the whole thing. I just think

that alot of us anxiety sufferers are afraid of that. If I am wrong, my

apologies. And I in no way was saying that you were wrong.

I am getting anxiety now of course, thinking wow were all those books wrong,

could this happen to me?

Kind Regards,

Robyn

--------- Panic Attack on Live TV

Attorney General Mukasey had a panic attack on live television. I can't imagine what that must have been like for him. In reading news reports, although the exact words " panic attack " are not used, there are code words – he had a long day, the lights were hot, he seemed stressed earlier, etc. All his test results were made public, so the whole world knows he didn't have a physical problem.

My heart goes out to him, I know how truly horrific it can feel to have a panic attack in front of one person – but on YouTube, to be subject to mean comments and weeks of humiliation? It's just not fair.

I wish there was a way the ACT professional community could use this incident as a means of education about panic disorder and anxiety disorder, but I doubt Mukasey would go for it, maybe once he leaves office? It seems like such an opportunity wasted, think how many people could be helped if we could link what happened to what happens to everyone – if we can link it to the normal.

The best thing about ACT is realizing that I'm normal, that everyone has fear thoughts, I just buy into them. Maybe this guy usually didn't buy into his fear thoughts, but during that speech he did, or maybe he's had this problem for awhile but hadn't had an attack in public, who knows.

We have seen people with eating disorders seek treatment after celebrities give interviews and talk about it; I wish I could say the same for panic disorder. Steve has had severe panic disorder since he was 20. He writes about it in his book, and he doesn't talk about treatment. I think, honestly, he still has to deal with panic triggers 40 years later.

Part of the problem that before ACT was introduced to the general public, the only treatment was drugs, and stars seem reluctant to talk about antidepressant use. Still, if ACT could " hitch " its wagon to a star, it could gain more notoriety and help a lot of people.

I have a good friend who is a physician. Although he specializes in gastroenterology, when he encounters patients who have anxiety related issues he advocates meditation. When I told him about ACT and its approach to mediation, he was very impressed. Another way that ACT can become more established is through the medical community. Every doctor I've spoken to is incredibly impressed with ACT, because it promotes such a healthy and honest relationship with the body and its sensations. This might be a matter of simple marketing – create an " ACT Packet " and send to physicians with an interest in learning more about anxiety issues, who knows?

Anyway, there's some food for thought. If there are any professional members in this public group who would be kind enough to forward this message to the professional group, I would appreciate it. Of course, I also welcome feedback from my compatriots in the public group as well.

Thanks,

[Guest guest]

, how often does this happen to you and do you know why? Are you able

to drive?

--------- Panic Attack on Live TV

Attorney General Mukasey had a panic attack on live television. I can't imagine what that must have been like for him. In reading news reports, although the exact words " panic attack " are not used, there are code words – he had a long day, the lights were hot, he seemed stressed earlier, etc. All his test results were made public, so the whole world knows he didn't have a physical problem.

My heart goes out to him, I know how truly horrific it can feel to have a panic attack in front of one person – but on YouTube, to be subject to mean comments and weeks of humiliation? It's just not fair.

I wish there was a way the ACT professional community could use this incident as a means of education about panic disorder and anxiety disorder, but I doubt Mukasey would go for it, maybe once he leaves office? It seems like such an opportunity wasted, think how many people could be helped if we could link what happened to what happens to everyone – if we can link it to the normal.

The best thing about ACT is realizing that I'm normal, that everyone has fear thoughts, I just buy into them. Maybe this guy usually didn't buy into his fear thoughts, but during that speech he did, or maybe he's had this problem for awhile but hadn't had an attack in public, who knows.

We have seen people with eating disorders seek treatment after celebrities give interviews and talk about it; I wish I could say the same for panic disorder. Steve has had severe panic disorder since he was 20. He writes about it in his book, and he doesn't talk about treatment. I think, honestly, he still has to deal with panic triggers 40 years later.

Part of the problem that before ACT was introduced to the general public, the only treatment was drugs, and stars seem reluctant to talk about antidepressant use. Still, if ACT could " hitch " its wagon to a star, it could gain more notoriety and help a lot of people.

I have a good friend who is a physician. Although he specializes in gastroenterology, when he encounters patients who have anxiety related issues he advocates meditation. When I told him about ACT and its approach to mediation, he was very impressed. Another way that ACT can become more established is through the medical community. Every doctor I've spoken to is incredibly impressed with ACT, because it promotes such a healthy and honest relationship with the body and its sensations. This might be a matter of simple marketing – create an " ACT Packet " and send to physicians with an interest in learning more about anxiety issues, who knows?

Anyway, there's some food for thought. If there are any professional members in this public group who would be kind enough to forward this message to the professional group, I would appreciate it. Of course, I also welcome feedback from my compatriots in the public group as well.

Thanks,

[Guest guest]

As someone who suffers with panic attacks & has done so for 30 years, I have managed to take control of the attacks during an episode, due to the knowledge given to me by many many medical professionals, that no one has ever fainted or yet died during an attack, that belief is the fear that increases the intensity of an atack.

Are we being told that we have been misled? Or have you learnt something new that can help you control your attacks? I do seriously hope it the latter!

Debbie

> > > > > Hi ,> > >> > > No offense but few people faint from Anxiety Attacks. It is funny because I> > > am talking from my wise mind right now. Usually I would be freaking out and> > > worried that would happen to me. I don't think it was a panic attack.> > > Usually people who have panic dont' faint.> > >> > > Robyn> > > --------- Panic Attack on Live TV> > >> > > act_for_the_public > > >> > > Attorney General Mukasey had a panic attack on live television. I> > > can't imagine what that must have been like for him. In reading news> > > reports, although the exact words "panic attack" are not used, there are> > > code words – he had a long day, the lights were hot, he seemed stressed> > > earlier, etc. All his test results were made public, so the whole world> > > knows he didn't have a physical problem.> > >> > >> > >> > > My heart goes out to him, I know how truly horrific it can feel to have a> > > panic attack in front of one person – but on YouTube, to be subject to mean> > > comments and weeks of humiliation? It's just not fair.> > >> > >> > >> > > I wish there was a way the ACT professional community could use this> > > incident as a means of education about panic disorder and anxiety disorder,> > > but I doubt Mukasey would go for it, maybe once he leaves office? It seems> > > like such an opportunity wasted, think how many people could be helped if we> > > could link what happened to what happens to everyone – if we can link it to> > > the normal.> > >> > >> > >> > > The best thing about ACT is realizing that I'm normal, that everyone has> > > fear thoughts, I just buy into them. Maybe this guy usually didn't buy into> > > his fear thoughts, but during that speech he did, or maybe he's had this> > > problem for awhile but hadn't had an attack in public, who knows.> > >> > >> > >> > > We have seen people with eating disorders seek treatment after celebrities> > > give interviews and talk about it; I wish I could say the same for panic> > > disorder. Steve has had severe panic disorder since he was 20. He> > > writes about it in his book, and he doesn't talk about treatment. I think,> > > honestly, he still has to deal with panic triggers 40 years later.> > >> > >> > >> > > Part of the problem that before ACT was introduced to the general public,> > > the only treatment was drugs, and stars seem reluctant to talk about> > > antidepressant use. Still, if ACT could "hitch" its wagon to a star, it> > > could gain more notoriety and help a lot of people.> > >> > >> > >> > > I have a good friend who is a physician. Although he specializes in> > > gastroenterology, when he encounters patients who have anxiety related> > > issues he advocates meditation. When I told him about ACT and its approach> > > to mediation, he was very impressed. Another way that ACT can become more> > > established is through the medical community. Every doctor I've spoken to is> > > incredibly impressed with ACT, because it promotes such a healthy and honest> > > relationship with the body and its sensations. This might be a matter of> > > simple marketing – create an "ACT Packet" and send to physicians with an> > > interest in learning more about anxiety issues, who knows?> > >> > >> > >> > > Anyway, there's some food for thought. If there are any professional> > > members in this public group who would be kind enough to forward this> > > message to the professional group, I would appreciate it. Of course, I also> > > welcome feedback from my compatriots in the public group as well.> > >> > >> > >> > > Thanks,> > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Hi Robyn, I am agreeing with what you have said, I too have been convinced via our medical professionals & books that this is not something that happens, that we will not pass out or faint during an attack & that the thought of that happening intensifies our fear. After years of doubting the professionals I finally believed them, because I have never found anything to contradict that knowledge, now like you I'm thinking omg was I misled?

My questions are to anyone who does know what is correct. Maybe if someone had low/high blood pressure that could cause someone to faint whilst having an attack at the same time, I'm only guessing with that.

very interesting debate

Debbie

> > > >> > > > > Hi ,> > > > >> > > > > No offense but few people faint from Anxiety Attacks. It is funny> > because I> > > > > am talking from my wise mind right now. Usually I would be> > freaking out and> > > > > worried that would happen to me. I don't think it was a panic> > attack.> > > > > Usually people who have panic dont' faint.> > > > >> > > > > Robyn> > > > > --------- Panic Attack on Live TV> > > > >> > > > > act_for_the_public > > > > >> > > > > Attorney General Mukasey had a panic attack on live> > television. I> > > > > can't imagine what that must have been like for him. In reading> > news> > > > > reports, although the exact words "panic attack" are not used,> > there are> > > > > code words – he had a long day, the lights were hot, he seemed> > stressed> > > > > earlier, etc. All his test results were made public, so the whole> > world> > > > > knows he didn't have a physical problem.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > My heart goes out to him, I know how truly horrific it can feel to> > have a> > > > > panic attack in front of one person – but on YouTube, to be> > subject to mean> > > > > comments and weeks of humiliation? It's just not fair.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > I wish there was a way the ACT professional community could use> > this> > > > > incident as a means of education about panic disorder and anxiety> > disorder,> > > > > but I doubt Mukasey would go for it, maybe once he leaves office?> > It seems> > > > > like such an opportunity wasted, think how many people could be> > helped if we> > > > > could link what happened to what happens to everyone – if we> > can link it to> > > > > the normal.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > The best thing about ACT is realizing that I'm normal, that> > everyone has> > > > > fear thoughts, I just buy into them. Maybe this guy usually didn't> > buy into> > > > > his fear thoughts, but during that speech he did, or maybe he's> > had this> > > > > problem for awhile but hadn't had an attack in public, who knows.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > We have seen people with eating disorders seek treatment after> > celebrities> > > > > give interviews and talk about it; I wish I could say the same for> > panic> > > > > disorder. Steve has had severe panic disorder since he was> > 20. He> > > > > writes about it in his book, and he doesn't talk about treatment.> > I think,> > > > > honestly, he still has to deal with panic triggers 40 years later.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Part of the problem that before ACT was introduced to the general> > public,> > > > > the only treatment was drugs, and stars seem reluctant to talk> > about> > > > > antidepressant use. Still, if ACT could "hitch" its wagon to a> > star, it> > > > > could gain more notoriety and help a lot of people.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > I have a good friend who is a physician. Although he specializes> > in> > > > > gastroenterology, when he encounters patients who have anxiety> > related> > > > > issues he advocates meditation. When I told him about ACT and its> > approach> > > > > to mediation, he was very impressed. Another way that ACT can> > become more> > > > > established is through the medical community. Every doctor I've> > spoken to is> > > > > incredibly impressed with ACT, because it promotes such a healthy> > and honest> > > > > relationship with the body and its sensations. This might be a> > matter of> > > > > simple marketing – create an "ACT Packet" and send to> > physicians with an> > > > > interest in learning more about anxiety issues, who knows?> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Anyway, there's some food for thought. If there are any> > professional> > > > > members in this public group who would be kind enough to forward> > this> > > > > message to the professional group, I would appreciate it. Of> > course, I also> > > > > welcome feedback from my compatriots in the public group as well.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Thanks,> > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > >>

[Guest guest]

I was also taught you cant faint from a panic attack. My experience

tells me otherwise. I apologise if i scare anyone, so please only

read on if you choose to, as i explain what happened to me on the

issue of fainting and panic........

I also ask the question about how to deal with hyperventilation from

the ACT perspective.

........

I have night panic attacks, where i awake at night in full panic

attack, hyperventilating, drenched in sweat, feeling hot/cold,

dizzy, shakey. They are extremely frightening. I have had physical

causes ruled out, and these attacks have been put down to my anxiety

disorder, which to me makes sense, as they tend to recurr when i go

through highly stressful periods in my life.

I too was told by my GP, and psychiatrist 10 years ago it is

impossible that one could faint from a panic attack, even though one

feels like they are going to faint it is next to impossible that it

will occur because being keyed up in the flight fight response,

usually raises your blood pressure, whereas fainting occurs with low

blood pressure. (Dont know if this is medically accurate, but i

accepted it, as that is what the professionals were telling me).

Last month, I had probably the worse night attack that i have ever

experienced. I was awoken midsleep with all the usual anxiety

symptoms- I recognised i was hyperventilating, short shallow

breathes, my mouth felt parched, and my chest felt tight (and what i

usually do is slow down my breathing and work 3sec in 3 sec out

breathing, which has worked for me for 10 yrs, and is a technique i

was taught as part of CBT). However this time, i turned the light

on, and sat up on the edge of my bed, poured a glass a water (my

usual WAFs were screaming at me at how horrible this was feeling, i

was going to die etc)

and so i got ready to count my breathing and slow it down, when all

of a sudden my vision went fuzzy, bright white, then black, and then

i felt my self come through again. im sure i had fainted.

Went to a dr the next day (not my usual dr, as i was convinced there

was something physically wrong with me that my regular dr had

missed); he took my blood pressure, did blood tests. As usual,

everything was normal.

My question is this- i know in ACT, we are taught that " controlling "

anxiety only causes us to struggle with it which can make things

worse. But what do you do when you are hyperventilating with an

anxiety attack?

My fear is that if i don't attempt to control my breathing when the

symptoms of hyperventilation occur with my anxiety, that i will pass

out again. I think if i am aware i am hyperventilating, at least

with my day panic attacks, should i not attempt to correct my

overbreathing?

Any thoughts on how to approach hyperventilation, from an ACT

perspective?

> > > > >

> > > > > > Hi ,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > No offense but few people faint from Anxiety Attacks. It

is

> funny

> > > because I

> > > > > > am talking from my wise mind right now. Usually I would

be

> > > freaking out and

> > > > > > worried that would happen to me. I don't think it was a

panic

> > > attack.

> > > > > > Usually people who have panic dont' faint.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Robyn

> > > > > > --------- Panic Attack on Live TV

> > > > > >

> > > > > > act_for_the_public

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Attorney General Mukasey had a panic attack on

live

> > > television. I

> > > > > > can't imagine what that must have been like for him. In

> reading

> > > news

> > > > > > reports, although the exact words " panic attack " are not

used,

> > > there are

> > > > > > code words – he had a long day, the lights were hot, he

> seemed

> > > stressed

> > > > > > earlier, etc. All his test results were made public, so

the

> whole

> > > world

> > > > > > knows he didn't have a physical problem.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My heart goes out to him, I know how truly horrific it

can

> feel to

> > > have a

> > > > > > panic attack in front of one person – but on YouTube, to

> be

> > > subject to mean

> > > > > > comments and weeks of humiliation? It's just not fair.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I wish there was a way the ACT professional community

could

> use

> > > this

> > > > > > incident as a means of education about panic disorder and

> anxiety

> > > disorder,

> > > > > > but I doubt Mukasey would go for it, maybe once he leaves

> office?

> > > It seems

> > > > > > like such an opportunity wasted, think how many people

could

> be

> > > helped if we

> > > > > > could link what happened to what happens to everyone – if

> we

> > > can link it to

> > > > > > the normal.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The best thing about ACT is realizing that I'm normal,

that

> > > everyone has

> > > > > > fear thoughts, I just buy into them. Maybe this guy

usually

> didn't

> > > buy into

> > > > > > his fear thoughts, but during that speech he did, or

maybe

> he's

> > > had this

> > > > > > problem for awhile but hadn't had an attack in public,

who

> knows.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > We have seen people with eating disorders seek treatment

after

> > > celebrities

> > > > > > give interviews and talk about it; I wish I could say

the same

> for

> > > panic

> > > > > > disorder. Steve has had severe panic disorder

since he

> was

> > > 20. He

> > > > > > writes about it in his book, and he doesn't talk about

> treatment.

> > > I think,

> > > > > > honestly, he still has to deal with panic triggers 40

years

> later.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Part of the problem that before ACT was introduced to the

> general

> > > public,

> > > > > > the only treatment was drugs, and stars seem reluctant

to talk

> > > about

> > > > > > antidepressant use. Still, if ACT could " hitch " its

wagon to a

> > > star, it

> > > > > > could gain more notoriety and help a lot of people.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have a good friend who is a physician. Although he

> specializes

> > > in

> > > > > > gastroenterology, when he encounters patients who have

anxiety

> > > related

> > > > > > issues he advocates meditation. When I told him about

ACT and

> its

> > > approach

> > > > > > to mediation, he was very impressed. Another way that

ACT can

> > > become more

> > > > > > established is through the medical community. Every

doctor

> I've

> > > spoken to is

> > > > > > incredibly impressed with ACT, because it promotes such a

> healthy

> > > and honest

> > > > > > relationship with the body and its sensations. This

might be a

> > > matter of

> > > > > > simple marketing – create an " ACT Packet " and send to

> > > physicians with an

> > > > > > interest in learning more about anxiety issues, who

knows?

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Anyway, there's some food for thought. If there are any

> > > professional

> > > > > > members in this public group who would be kind enough to

> forward

> > > this

> > > > > > message to the professional group, I would appreciate

it. Of

> > > course, I also

> > > > > > welcome feedback from my compatriots in the public group

as

> well.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you for sharing your experiences with us, what we experience is not nice to say the least. It will be interesting to hear of more experiences & thoughts on this.

When i am in panic mode I fix my eyes on an object, I begin to describe the object in my mind whilst doing my breathing, observing the shape of it, the colour, the pattern if any and so on, within seconds my attack is over because I've learnt to take my attention away from the emotions, my thoughts & fear. I know that it is a mindful way but I don't know if it is from an ACT perspective, but it works for me.

Debbie

> > > > > >> > > > > > > Hi ,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > No offense but few people faint from Anxiety Attacks. It > is> > funny> > > > because I> > > > > > > am talking from my wise mind right now. Usually I would > be> > > > freaking out and> > > > > > > worried that would happen to me. I don't think it was a > panic> > > > attack.> > > > > > > Usually people who have panic dont' faint.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Robyn> > > > > > > --------- Panic Attack on Live TV> > > > > > >> > > > > > > act_for_the_public > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Attorney General Mukasey had a panic attack on > live> > > > television. I> > > > > > > can't imagine what that must have been like for him. In> > reading> > > > news> > > > > > > reports, although the exact words "panic attack" are not > used,> > > > there are> > > > > > > code words – he had a long day, the lights were hot, he> > seemed> > > > stressed> > > > > > > earlier, etc. All his test results were made public, so > the> > whole> > > > world> > > > > > > knows he didn't have a physical problem.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > My heart goes out to him, I know how truly horrific it > can> > feel to> > > > have a> > > > > > > panic attack in front of one person – but on YouTube, to> > be> > > > subject to mean> > > > > > > comments and weeks of humiliation? It's just not fair.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > I wish there was a way the ACT professional community > could> > use> > > > this> > > > > > > incident as a means of education about panic disorder and> > anxiety> > > > disorder,> > > > > > > but I doubt Mukasey would go for it, maybe once he leaves> > office?> > > > It seems> > > > > > > like such an opportunity wasted, think how many people > could> > be> > > > helped if we> > > > > > > could link what happened to what happens to everyone – if> > we> > > > can link it to> > > > > > > the normal.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > The best thing about ACT is realizing that I'm normal, > that> > > > everyone has> > > > > > > fear thoughts, I just buy into them. Maybe this guy > usually> > didn't> > > > buy into> > > > > > > his fear thoughts, but during that speech he did, or > maybe> > he's> > > > had this> > > > > > > problem for awhile but hadn't had an attack in public, > who> > knows.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > We have seen people with eating disorders seek treatment > after> > > > celebrities> > > > > > > give interviews and talk about it; I wish I could say > the same> > for> > > > panic> > > > > > > disorder. Steve has had severe panic disorder > since he> > was> > > > 20. He> > > > > > > writes about it in his book, and he doesn't talk about> > treatment.> > > > I think,> > > > > > > honestly, he still has to deal with panic triggers 40 > years> > later.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Part of the problem that before ACT was introduced to the> > general> > > > public,> > > > > > > the only treatment was drugs, and stars seem reluctant > to talk> > > > about> > > > > > > antidepressant use. Still, if ACT could "hitch" its > wagon to a> > > > star, it> > > > > > > could gain more notoriety and help a lot of people.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > I have a good friend who is a physician. Although he> > specializes> > > > in> > > > > > > gastroenterology, when he encounters patients who have > anxiety> > > > related> > > > > > > issues he advocates meditation. When I told him about > ACT and> > its> > > > approach> > > > > > > to mediation, he was very impressed. Another way that > ACT can> > > > become more> > > > > > > established is through the medical community. Every > doctor> > I've> > > > spoken to is> > > > > > > incredibly impressed with ACT, because it promotes such a> > healthy> > > > and honest> > > > > > > relationship with the body and its sensations. This > might be a> > > > matter of> > > > > > > simple marketing – create an "ACT Packet" and send to> > > > physicians with an> > > > > > > interest in learning more about anxiety issues, who > knows?> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Anyway, there's some food for thought. If there are any> > > > professional> > > > > > > members in this public group who would be kind enough to> > forward> > > > this> > > > > > > message to the professional group, I would appreciate > it. Of> > > > course, I also> > > > > > > welcome feedback from my compatriots in the public group > as> > well.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Thanks,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

This may have been a vasovagal attack, which is often caused by anxiety over a specific fear, and often leads to fainting due to a precipitious drop in blood pressure.

Subject: Re: Panic Attack on Live TVTo: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 12:50 PM

Hi , No offense but few people faint from Anxiety Attacks. It is funny because I am talking from my wise mind right now. Usually I would be freaking out and worried that would happen to me. I don't think it was a panic attack. Usually people who have panic dont' faint. Robyn ------------ -- Original message ------------ --------- -From: " Hoffman" <chuckkittygmail (DOT) com>> <act_for_the_ public@yahoogrou ps.com>> > Attorney General Mukasey had a panic attack on live television. I> can't imagine what that must have been like for him. In reading news> reports, although the exact words "panic attack" are not used, there are> code words – he had a long day, the lights were hot, he seemed

stressed> earlier, etc. All his test results were made public, so the whole world> knows he didn't have a physical problem.> > > > My heart goes out to him, I know how truly horrific it can feel to have a> panic attack in front of one person – but on YouTube, to be subject to mean> comments and weeks of humiliation? It's just not fair.> > > > I wish there was a way the ACT professional community could use this> incident as a means of education about panic disorder and anxiety disorder,> but I doubt Mukasey would go for it, maybe once he leaves office? It seems> like such an opportunity wasted, think how many people could be helped if we> could link what happened to what happens to everyone – if we can link it to> the normal.> > > > The best thing about ACT is realizing that I'm normal, that everyone

has> fear thoughts, I just buy into them. Maybe this guy usually didn't buy into> his fear thoughts, but during that speech he did, or maybe he's had this> problem for awhile but hadn't had an attack in public, who knows.> > > > We have seen people with eating disorders seek treatment after celebrities> give interviews and talk about it; I wish I could say the same for panic> disorder. Steve has had severe panic disorder since he was 20. He> writes about it in his book, and he doesn't talk about treatment. I think,> honestly, he still has to deal with panic triggers 40 years later.> > > > Part of the problem that before ACT was introduced to the general public,> the only treatment was drugs, and stars seem reluctant to talk about> antidepressant use. Still, if ACT could "hitch" its wagon to a star, it> could gain more

notoriety and help a lot of people.> > > > I have a good friend who is a physician. Although he specializes in> gastroenterology, when he encounters patients who have anxiety related> issues he advocates meditation. When I told him about ACT and its approach> to mediation, he was very impressed. Another way that ACT can become more> established is through the medical community. Every doctor I've spoken to is> incredibly impressed with ACT, because it promotes such a healthy and honest> relationship with the body and its sensations. This might be a matter of> simple marketing – create an "ACT Packet" and send to physicians with an> interest in learning more about anxiety issues, who knows?> > > > Anyway, there's some food for thought. If there are any professional members> in this public group who would be kind enough to forward this

message to the> professional group, I would appreciate it. Of course, I also welcome> feedback from my compatriots in the public group as well.> > > > Thanks,> > >

[Guest guest]

, thanks for your comments.

I think the way i will approach a future hyperventilation/anxiety

attack is the way i always have (cupping my mouth, and slowing down

my breathing) because i do find this helpful, but perhaps i can also

incorporate ACT- mindfulness, and also turning the willingness

switch on.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hi ,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > No offense but few people faint from Anxiety Attacks.

It

> is

> > funny

> > > > because I

> > > > > > > am talking from my wise mind right now. Usually I

would

> be

> > > > freaking out and

> > > > > > > worried that would happen to me. I don't think it was

a

> panic

> > > > attack.

> > > > > > > Usually people who have panic dont' faint.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Robyn

> > > > > > > --------- Panic Attack on Live TV

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > act_for_the_public

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Attorney General Mukasey had a panic attack on

> live

> > > > television. I

> > > > > > > can't imagine what that must have been like for him. In

> > reading

> > > > news

> > > > > > > reports, although the exact words " panic attack " are

not

> used,

> > > > there are

> > > > > > > code words - he had a long day, the lights were hot, he

> > seemed

> > > > stressed

> > > > > > > earlier, etc. All his test results were made public,

so

> the

> > whole

> > > > world

> > > > > > > knows he didn't have a physical problem.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My heart goes out to him, I know how truly horrific it

> can

> > feel to

> > > > have a

> > > > > > > panic attack in front of one person - but on YouTube,

to

> > be

> > > > subject to mean

> > > > > > > comments and weeks of humiliation? It's just not fair.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I wish there was a way the ACT professional community

> could

> > use

> > > > this

> > > > > > > incident as a means of education about panic disorder

and

> > anxiety

> > > > disorder,

> > > > > > > but I doubt Mukasey would go for it, maybe once he

leaves

> > office?

> > > > It seems

> > > > > > > like such an opportunity wasted, think how many people

> could

> > be

> > > > helped if we

> > > > > > > could link what happened to what happens to everyone -

if

> > we

> > > > can link it to

> > > > > > > the normal.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The best thing about ACT is realizing that I'm normal,

> that

> > > > everyone has

> > > > > > > fear thoughts, I just buy into them. Maybe this guy

> usually

> > didn't

> > > > buy into

> > > > > > > his fear thoughts, but during that speech he did, or

> maybe

> > he's

> > > > had this

> > > > > > > problem for awhile but hadn't had an attack in public,

> who

> > knows.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > We have seen people with eating disorders seek

treatment

> after

> > > > celebrities

> > > > > > > give interviews and talk about it; I wish I could say

> the same

> > for

> > > > panic

> > > > > > > disorder. Steve has had severe panic disorder

> since he

> > was

> > > > 20. He

> > > > > > > writes about it in his book, and he doesn't talk about

> > treatment.

> > > > I think,

> > > > > > > honestly, he still has to deal with panic triggers 40

> years

> > later.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Part of the problem that before ACT was introduced to

the

> > general

> > > > public,

> > > > > > > the only treatment was drugs, and stars seem reluctant

> to talk

> > > > about

> > > > > > > antidepressant use. Still, if ACT could " hitch " its

> wagon to a

> > > > star, it

> > > > > > > could gain more notoriety and help a lot of people.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I have a good friend who is a physician. Although he

> > specializes

> > > > in

> > > > > > > gastroenterology, when he encounters patients who have

> anxiety

> > > > related

> > > > > > > issues he advocates meditation. When I told him about

> ACT and

> > its

> > > > approach

> > > > > > > to mediation, he was very impressed. Another way that

> ACT can

> > > > become more

> > > > > > > established is through the medical community. Every

> doctor

> > I've

> > > > spoken to is

> > > > > > > incredibly impressed with ACT, because it promotes

such a

> > healthy

> > > > and honest

> > > > > > > relationship with the body and its sensations. This

> might be a

> > > > matter of

> > > > > > > simple marketing - create an " ACT Packet " and send to

> > > > physicians with an

> > > > > > > interest in learning more about anxiety issues, who

> knows?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Anyway, there's some food for thought. If there are any

> > > > professional

> > > > > > > members in this public group who would be kind enough

to

> > forward

> > > > this

> > > > > > > message to the professional group, I would appreciate

> it. Of

> > > > course, I also

> > > > > > > welcome feedback from my compatriots in the public

group

> as

> > well.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Russ, thanks for your helpful comments, especially about how to

approach hyperventilation from an ACT perspective.

I hadn't thought about aligning the deep breathing with values.

Interesting, because i do slow my breathing down to reduce (and

hence control) the uncomfortable sensations associated with

hyperventilation.

Next time it happens, i will still slow my breathing down, but in a

mindful way, making room for the sensations, turning the willingness

switch on, and keeping in mind my values (of taking care of my

health).

The breath as an anchor to steady me through the storm... i love it.

I will print this post off..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hi ,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > No offense but few people faint from Anxiety Attacks.

It

> is

> > funny

> > > > because I

> > > > > > > am talking from my wise mind right now. Usually I would

> be

> > > > freaking out and

> > > > > > > worried that would happen to me. I don't think it was a

> panic

> > > > attack.

> > > > > > > Usually people who have panic dont' faint.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Robyn

> > > > > > > --------- Panic Attack on Live TV

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > act_for_the_public

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Attorney General Mukasey had a panic attack on

> live

> > > > television. I

> > > > > > > can't imagine what that must have been like for him. In

> > reading

> > > > news

> > > > > > > reports, although the exact words " panic attack " are

not

> used,

> > > > there are

> > > > > > > code words - he had a long day, the lights were hot, he

> > seemed

> > > > stressed

> > > > > > > earlier, etc. All his test results were made public, so

> the

> > whole

> > > > world

> > > > > > > knows he didn't have a physical problem.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My heart goes out to him, I know how truly horrific it

> can

> > feel to

> > > > have a

> > > > > > > panic attack in front of one person - but on YouTube,

to

> > be

> > > > subject to mean

> > > > > > > comments and weeks of humiliation? It's just not fair.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I wish there was a way the ACT professional community

> could

> > use

> > > > this

> > > > > > > incident as a means of education about panic disorder

and

> > anxiety

> > > > disorder,

> > > > > > > but I doubt Mukasey would go for it, maybe once he

leaves

> > office?

> > > > It seems

> > > > > > > like such an opportunity wasted, think how many people

> could

> > be

> > > > helped if we

> > > > > > > could link what happened to what happens to everyone -

if

> > we

> > > > can link it to

> > > > > > > the normal.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The best thing about ACT is realizing that I'm normal,

> that

> > > > everyone has

> > > > > > > fear thoughts, I just buy into them. Maybe this guy

> usually

> > didn't

> > > > buy into

> > > > > > > his fear thoughts, but during that speech he did, or

> maybe

> > he's

> > > > had this

> > > > > > > problem for awhile but hadn't had an attack in public,

> who

> > knows.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > We have seen people with eating disorders seek

treatment

> after

> > > > celebrities

> > > > > > > give interviews and talk about it; I wish I could say

> the same

> > for

> > > > panic

> > > > > > > disorder. Steve has had severe panic disorder

> since he

> > was

> > > > 20. He

> > > > > > > writes about it in his book, and he doesn't talk about

> > treatment.

> > > > I think,

> > > > > > > honestly, he still has to deal with panic triggers 40

> years

> > later.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Part of the problem that before ACT was introduced to

the

> > general

> > > > public,

> > > > > > > the only treatment was drugs, and stars seem reluctant

> to talk

> > > > about

> > > > > > > antidepressant use. Still, if ACT could " hitch " its

> wagon to a

> > > > star, it

> > > > > > > could gain more notoriety and help a lot of people.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I have a good friend who is a physician. Although he

> > specializes

> > > > in

> > > > > > > gastroenterology, when he encounters patients who have

> anxiety

> > > > related

> > > > > > > issues he advocates meditation. When I told him about

> ACT and

> > its

> > > > approach

> > > > > > > to mediation, he was very impressed. Another way that

> ACT can

> > > > become more

> > > > > > > established is through the medical community. Every

> doctor

> > I've

> > > > spoken to is

> > > > > > > incredibly impressed with ACT, because it promotes

such a

> > healthy

> > > > and honest

> > > > > > > relationship with the body and its sensations. This

> might be a

> > > > matter of

> > > > > > > simple marketing - create an " ACT Packet " and send to

> > > > physicians with an

> > > > > > > interest in learning more about anxiety issues, who

> knows?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Anyway, there's some food for thought. If there are any

> > > > professional

> > > > > > > members in this public group who would be kind enough

to

> > forward

> > > > this

> > > > > > > message to the professional group, I would appreciate

> it. Of

> > > > course, I also

> > > > > > > welcome feedback from my compatriots in the public

group

> as

> > well.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yes this has been a very interesting topic & I'm also glad it has been raised, thank you .

I'm also aware that one can't control a panic attack, however for me I've learnt to have more control of my thoughts during an attack, maybe control is the wrong word but by keeping my thoughts on the present moment by switching my concentration onto an object rather than allowing them to flow with the panic helps me & has reduced the amount of attacks that I have. From having say several attacks a day I now only have several attacks a month all through object focus, because I take attention away from my fear the fear has reduced.

Debbie

> > > > >> > > > > > Hi ,> > > > > >> > > > > > No offense but few people faint from Anxiety Attacks. It is funny> > > because I> > > > > > am talking from my wise mind right now. Usually I would be> > > freaking out and> > > > > > worried that would happen to me. I don't think it was a panic> > > attack.> > > > > > Usually people who have panic dont' faint.> > > > > >> > > > > > Robyn> > > > > > --------- Panic Attack on Live TV> > > > > >> > > > > > act_for_the_public > > > > > >> > > > > > Attorney General Mukasey had a panic attack on live> > > television. I> > > > > > can't imagine what that must have been like for him. In reading> > > news> > > > > > reports, although the exact words "panic attack" are not used,> > > there are> > > > > > code words - he had a long day, the lights were hot, he seemed> > > stressed> > > > > > earlier, etc. All his test results were made public, so the whole> > > world> > > > > > knows he didn't have a physical problem.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > My heart goes out to him, I know how truly horrific it can feel to> > > have a> > > > > > panic attack in front of one person - but on YouTube, to be> > > subject to mean> > > > > > comments and weeks of humiliation? It's just not fair.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > I wish there was a way the ACT professional community could use> > > this> > > > > > incident as a means of education about panic disorder and anxiety> > > disorder,> > > > > > but I doubt Mukasey would go for it, maybe once he leaves office?> > > It seems> > > > > > like such an opportunity wasted, think how many people could be> > > helped if we> > > > > > could link what happened to what happens to everyone - if we> > > can link it to> > > > > > the normal.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > The best thing about ACT is realizing that I'm normal, that> > > everyone has> > > > > > fear thoughts, I just buy into them. Maybe this guy usually didn't> > > buy into> > > > > > his fear thoughts, but during that speech he did, or maybe he's> > > had this> > > > > > problem for awhile but hadn't had an attack in public, who knows.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > We have seen people with eating disorders seek treatment after> > > celebrities> > > > > > give interviews and talk about it; I wish I could say the same for> > > panic> > > > > > disorder. Steve has had severe panic disorder since he was> > > 20. He> > > > > > writes about it in his book, and he doesn't talk about treatment.> > > I think,> > > > > > honestly, he still has to deal with panic triggers 40 years later.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Part of the problem that before ACT was introduced to the general> > > public,> > > > > > the only treatment was drugs, and stars seem reluctant to talk> > > about> > > > > > antidepressant use. Still, if ACT could "hitch" its wagon to a> > > star, it> > > > > > could gain more notoriety and help a lot of people.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > I have a good friend who is a physician. Although he specializes> > > in> > > > > > gastroenterology, when he encounters patients who have anxiety> > > related> > > > > > issues he advocates meditation. When I told him about ACT and its> > > approach> > > > > > to mediation, he was very impressed. Another way that ACT can> > > become more> > > > > > established is through the medical community. Every doctor I've> > > spoken to is> > > > > > incredibly impressed with ACT, because it promotes such a healthy> > > and honest> > > > > > relationship with the body and its sensations. This might be a> > > matter of> > > > > > simple marketing - create an "ACT Packet" and send to> > > physicians with an> > > > > > interest in learning more about anxiety issues, who knows?> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Anyway, there's some food for thought. If there are any> > > professional> > > > > > members in this public group who would be kind enough to forward> > > this> > > > > > message to the professional group, I would appreciate it. Of> > > course, I also> > > > > > welcome feedback from my compatriots in the public group as well.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Thanks,> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>