Guest guest Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 Kavy, I only know because I do the same thing as bad or worse. Zen masters beating students. That does not sound very Zen like. LOL. Robyn -------------- Original message ---------------------- > Thanks Robyn and Bill (Billboy), > > I had two lovely emails yesterday. One was from Bill (Billboy) gently > and playfully nudging me in the right direction, and then one from > Robyn. Yes, I was being hard on myself - as usual. I'm always riddled > with guilt - the work of my thinking machine. Thanks again for your > kindly reply. > > P.S. I have had a look on the internet and it does seem that zen > masters sometimes do beat their students with sticks and sometimes > quite badly. > > Kavy > > > > > > Thanks Robyn and Bill (Billboy), I had two lovely emails yesterday. One was from Bill (Billboy) gently and playfully nudging me in the right direction, and then one from Robyn. Yes, I was being hard on myself - as usual. I'm always riddled with guilt - the work of my thinking machine. Thanks again for your kindly reply. P.S. I have had a look on the internet and it does seem that zen masters sometimes do beat their students with sticks and sometimes quite badly. Kavy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 Dear Kavy: You will only get rid of your anxiety, depression, and anger (which we all have) until you realize one fact. Don't ask me how I know this, but I do. You are a winner. A fine specimen of a human being. The human race is much better with you. Please realize this. You are just as good as anybody with credentials or a position of authority. If you realize this, it will be good flying from now on. Please just take my word on this. You are prime. Sincerely and truthfully, Bill Being Hard on Myself Thanks Robyn and Bill (Billboy), I had two lovely emails yesterday. One was from Bill (Billboy) gently and playfully nudging me in the right direction, and then one from Robyn. Yes, I was being hard on myself - as usual. I'm always riddled with guilt - the work of my thinking machine. Thanks again for your kindly reply. P.S. I have had a look on the internet and it does seem that zen masters sometimes do beat their students with sticks and sometimes quite badly. Kavy Tis the season to save your money! Get the new AOL Holiday Toolbar for money saving offers and gift ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 Cor! That was nice Bill. That really helps. I have spent many years in depression and great loneliness. I spoke about loneliness once before and how it can eat away all your self value until you feel completetly unatractive. Some people say other people can't make you happy, so get yourself happy first before trying to find a fulfilling relationships (i.e. Burns, and many other prominent writers/ psychologists). These people say that a lonley forlorn person doesn't attract others. Yes that's true. So you end up feeling guilty because you want someone to make you happy. But Dr Tony Lake (a loneliness expert) say's that good relationships are absolutely vital if we are to like ourselves, without these we all start to doubt ourselves. Bob Murrey, author of Creating Optimism, quotes research that proves this. So it is important to get relationships going again. I got this girlfriend a few months back but I wasn't after her, I wanted her friend. I didn't think it would last long but she is bringing me to life. She really likes me and I'm beginning to feel special and loveable. She likes all the things about me that I hated about myself - my vanity, insecurity, lack of confidence, and other pathetic things. We're becomming close, and I feel my confidence growing. I have even started to like the way I look in the mirror. Dr Burns say's that people admire our achievements but love us for our shortcomings, because we all have shortcomings and it helps us to feel that we are OK too. No one feels great against an all perfect superman or woman who always wins at everything. Anyway, best to go now because some folks don't like if you do too much thinking around here, like talking in a public library. I'm only joking. Bye for now. Kavy > > Dear Kavy: > > You will only get rid of your anxiety, depression, and anger (which we all have) until you realize one fact.? Don't ask me how I know this, but I do.? > You are a winner.? A fine specimen of a human being.? The human race is much better with you.? Please realize this.? You are just as good as anybody with credentials or a position of authority.? If you realize this, it will be good flying from now on.? Please just take my word on this.? You are prime. > > Sincerely and truthfully, > > Bill > > > Being Hard on Myself > > > > > > > Thanks Robyn and Bill (Billboy), > > I had two lovely emails yesterday. One was from Bill (Billboy) gently > and playfully nudging me in the right direction, and then one from > Robyn. Yes, I was being hard on myself - as usual. I'm always riddled > with guilt - the work of my thinking machine. Thanks again for your > kindly reply. > > P.S. I have had a look on the internet and it does seem that zen > masters sometimes do beat their students with sticks and sometimes > quite badly. > > Kavy > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 Robyn: Zen Masters don't beat their students. They lightly tap a student with a stick when they see by the student's posture that they are lost in thought or THE WORD MACHINE. The student then "wakes up" and then goes back to the meditation object (the breath, counting the breath, just sitting, or on a koan). But they still use the "hitting with a stick" as an example for what they are doing. I guess it sounds more dramatic. Now Robyn, be mindful or I will hit you 33 times with a stick! Bill Re: Being Hard on Myself Kavy, I only know because I do the same thing as bad or worse. Zen masters beating students. That does not sound very Zen like. LOL. Robyn --------- Being Hard on Myself Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 19:20:37 +0000 Thanks Robyn and Bill (Billboy), I had two lovely emails yesterday. One was from Bill (Billboy) gently and playfully nudging me in the right direction, and then one from Robyn. Yes, I was being hard on myself - as usual. I'm always riddled with guilt - the work of my thinking machine. Thanks again for your kindly reply. P.S. I have had a look on the internet and it does seem that zen masters sometimes do beat their students with sticks and sometimes quite badly. Kavy Tis the season to save your money! Get the new AOL Holiday Toolbar for money saving offers and gift ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 33 times!! I am mindful that I am afraid to be Zen student. LOL Robyn --------- Being Hard on Myself Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 19:20:37 +0000 Thanks Robyn and Bill (Billboy), I had two lovely emails yesterday. One was from Bill (Billboy) gently and playfully nudging me in the right direction, and then one from Robyn. Yes, I was being hard on myself - as usual. I'm always riddled with guilt - the work of my thinking machine. Thanks again for your kindly reply. P.S. I have had a look on the internet and it does seem that zen masters sometimes do beat their students with sticks and sometimes quite badly. Kavy Tis the season to save your money! Get the new AOL Holiday Toolbar for money saving offers and gift ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 You know actually, I would like to experience this. As long as they don't hurt me. It would be great to see when I am lost in thought. Really. Robyn --------- Being Hard on Myself Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 19:20:37 +0000 Thanks Robyn and Bill (Billboy), I had two lovely emails yesterday. One was from Bill (Billboy) gently and playfully nudging me in the right direction, and then one from Robyn. Yes, I was being hard on myself - as usual. I'm always riddled with guilt - the work of my thinking machine. Thanks again for your kindly reply. P.S. I have had a look on the internet and it does seem that zen masters sometimes do beat their students with sticks and sometimes quite badly. Kavy Tis the season to save your money! Get the new AOL Holiday Toolbar for money saving offers and gift ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 Robyn: They only tap you. And some don't do it at all. It doesn't hurt. Now go buy "Zen Training" by Katsuki Sekida. AND START SITTING! Then I will be your student and you can hit me 33 times with a stick. Bill Re: Being Hard on Myself 33 times!! I am mindful that I am afraid to be Zen student. LOL Robyn --------- Being Hard on Myself Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 19:20:37 +0000 Thanks Robyn and Bill (Billboy), I had two lovely emails yesterday. One was from Bill (Billboy) gently and playfully nudging me in the right direction, and then one from Robyn. Yes, I was being hard on myself - as usual. I'm always riddled with guilt - the work of my thinking machine. Thanks again for your kindly reply. P.S. I have had a look on the internet and it does seem that zen masters sometimes do beat their students with sticks and sometimes quite badly. Kavy Tis the season to save your money! Get the new AOL Holiday Toolbar for money saving offers and gift ideas. Tis the season to save your money! Get the new AOL Holiday Toolbar for money saving offers and gift ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 Go buy the book. And I will bow to you 33 times. Bill Re: Being Hard on Myself You know actually, I would like to experience this. As long as they don't hurt me. It would be great to see when I am lost in thought. Really. Robyn --------- Being Hard on Myself Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 19:20:37 +0000 Thanks Robyn and Bill (Billboy), I had two lovely emails yesterday. One was from Bill (Billboy) gently and playfully nudging me in the right direction, and then one from Robyn. Yes, I was being hard on myself - as usual. I'm always riddled with guilt - the work of my thinking machine. Thanks again for your kindly reply. P.S. I have had a look on the internet and it does seem that zen masters sometimes do beat their students with sticks and sometimes quite badly. Kavy Tis the season to save your money! Get the new AOL Holiday Toolbar for money saving offers and gift ideas. Tis the season to save your money! Get the new AOL Holiday Toolbar for money saving offers and gift ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 Hi Bill, It’s lovely to see you reaching out to Kavy in your post below. At the same time, alarm bells always ring when I hear folks talking about “winners”. ACT speculates that if you try hard to think of yourself as a winner, paradoxically that is likely to maintainin your depression and anxiety, rather than reducing it. How so? Well, by coincidence, I was writing about this subject only yesterday. See below. Happiness Trap #6: The “Winners and Losers” Myth Pop-psychology often encourages us to think in terms of “winners” and “losers”. “Think like a winner!”, “Winners do this!”, “Only losers do that!” If you hold on tightly to these stories, there may well be some short-term benefits for you . For example, when you buy into the story that someone else is a “loser” or you are a “winner”, you get to feel good about yourself .... at least, for a little while. But how long does it last for? How long before your mind compares you to someone else who is achieving more or doing better than you? And when that happens, who does your mind call a “loser”? You may have heard of the concept of “fragile self-esteem”. It’s very common in successful professionals. As long as they achieve peak performance, they can hold on tightly to the “I’m a winner” story, and feel good about themselves. But the moment their performance drops, the story changes to “I’m a loser”. And If their habit is to hold these stories tightly, then they instantly get sucked into the black hole of “I’m a loser”. This set-up creates a desperate need to achieve more and more, for fear of becoming a “loser” - and this in turn leads to chronic stress, performance anxiety, perfectionism, and burn-out. The take home message: hold these stories lightly. After all, they’re only words. If your mind says “Hey you’re a loser,” don’t take it seriously. And if your mind says, “Hey you’re a winner,” don’t take that seriously, either. You are a complex human being, and no words can ever capture the richness and complexity of your personality. Even a thousand-page autobiography can not capture the essence of your humanity, never mind a single word such as “winner” or “loser”. What matters in life is what you do, not the stories you believe about yourself. So positive or negative, always hold those self-judgments lightly; they are not you! Cheers, Russ Russ PO Box 5079 Alphington, Vic 3058 www.thehappinesstrap.com www.actmindfully.com.au From: ACT_for_the_Public [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of billboy1951@... Sent: Saturday, 29 November 2008 7:14 AM To: ACT_for_the_Public Subject: Re: Being Hard on Myself Dear Kavy: You will only get rid of your anxiety, depression, and anger (which we all have) until you realize one fact. Don't ask me how I know this, but I do. You are a winner. A fine specimen of a human being. The human race is much better with you. Please realize this. You are just as good as anybody with credentials or a position of authority. If you realize this, it will be good flying from now on. Please just take my word on this. You are prime. Sincerely and truthfully, Bill Being Hard on Myself Thanks Robyn and Bill (Billboy), I had two lovely emails yesterday. One was from Bill (Billboy) gently and playfully nudging me in the right direction, and then one from Robyn. Yes, I was being hard on myself - as usual. I'm always riddled with guilt - the work of my thinking machine. Thanks again for your kindly reply. P.S. I have had a look on the internet and it does seem that zen masters sometimes do beat their students with sticks and sometimes quite badly. Kavy Tis the season to save your money! Get the new AOL Holiday Toolbar for money saving offers and gift ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 Hi Russ, I don't feel much of a winner, but Bill's post did balance things out a bit. I'm nowhere near as bad as I see myself. And it was a lovely comment from Bill - I'm much touched. Anyhow, thanks for your timely post, as I had gone back to judging myself - good and bad. It's funny how how your old ways get back in without you knowing. I shall shall keep working at the mindfulness which will help identify it when it happens again, and then I can let it go. Although I like liking myself a bit more and having fun with it. But I know what you mean - take it lightly. Kavy > > Hi Bill, > > It's lovely to see you reaching out to Kavy in your post below. At the same > time, alarm bells always ring when I hear folks talking about " winners " . ACT > speculates that if you try hard to think of yourself as a winner, > paradoxically that is likely to maintainin your depression and anxiety, > rather than reducing it. How so? Well, by coincidence, I was writing about > this subject only yesterday. See below. > > > > Happiness Trap #6: The " Winners and Losers " Myth > > > > Pop-psychology often encourages us to think in terms of " winners " and > " losers " . " Think like a winner! " , " Winners do this! " , " Only losers do that! " > If you hold on tightly to these stories, there may well be some short-term > benefits for you . For example, when you buy into the story that someone > else is a " loser " or you are a " winner " , you get to feel good about yourself > .... at least, for a little while. But how long does it last for? How long > before your mind compares you to someone else who is achieving more or doing > better than you? And when that happens, who does your mind call a " loser " ? > You may have heard of the concept of " fragile self-esteem " . It's very common > in successful professionals. As long as they achieve peak performance, they > can hold on tightly to the " I'm a winner " story, and feel good about > themselves. But the moment their performance drops, the story changes to > " I'm a loser " . And If their habit is to hold these stories tightly, then > they instantly get sucked into the black hole of " I'm a loser " . This set-up > creates a desperate need to achieve more and more, for fear of becoming a > " loser " - and this in turn leads to chronic stress, performance anxiety, > perfectionism, and burn-out. The take home message: hold these stories > lightly. After all, they're only words. If your mind says " Hey you're a > loser, " don't take it seriously. And if your mind says, " Hey you're a > winner, " don't take that seriously, either. You are a complex human being, > and no words can ever capture the richness and complexity of your > personality. Even a thousand-page autobiography can not capture the essence > of your humanity, never mind a single word such as " winner " or " loser " . What > matters in life is what you do, not the stories you believe about yourself. > So positive or negative, always hold those self-judgments lightly; they are > not you! > > > > Cheers, Russ > > > > Russ > > PO Box 5079 > > Alphington, Vic 3058 > > > > www.thehappinesstrap.com > > www.actmindfully.com.au > > > > From: ACT_for_the_Public > [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of billboy1951@... > Sent: Saturday, 29 November 2008 7:14 AM > To: ACT_for_the_Public > Subject: Re: Being Hard on Myself > > > > Dear Kavy: > > You will only get rid of your anxiety, depression, and anger (which we all > have) until you realize one fact. Don't ask me how I know this, but I do. > You are a winner. A fine specimen of a human being. The human race is much > better with you. Please realize this. You are just as good as anybody with > credentials or a position of authority. If you realize this, it will be > good flying from now on. Please just take my word on this. You are prime. > > Sincerely and truthfully, > > Bill > > > Being Hard on Myself > > Thanks Robyn and Bill (Billboy), > > I had two lovely emails yesterday. One was from Bill (Billboy) gently > and playfully nudging me in the right direction, and then one from > Robyn. Yes, I was being hard on myself - as usual. I'm always riddled > with guilt - the work of my thinking machine. Thanks again for your > kindly reply. > > P.S. I have had a look on the internet and it does seem that zen > masters sometimes do beat their students with sticks and sometimes > quite badly. > > Kavy > > > > _____ > > Tis the season to save your money! Get > <http://toolbar.aol.com/holiday/download.html? ncid=emlweusdown00000008> the > new AOL Holiday Toolbar for money saving offers and gift ideas. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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