Guest guest Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 Maybe you can all help me out on this one at what point does one draw the line in achieving ones own happiness when it would cause someone else's sadness? When does it become selfish to only think of your own happiness? Debbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 Striving only for one's own happiness is a good way to fall right into the happiness trap. When we clarify our values we usually find that we value the wellbeing of others in some way. We discover an interest in contributing to the greater good. When we take steps to benefit others we often experience a sense of meaning and satisfaction, in my view. Maybe you can all help me out on this one at what point does one draw the line in achieving ones own happiness when it would cause someone else's sadness? When does it become selfish to only think of your own happiness? Debbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 > > > *Maybe you can all help me out on this one [image: ] at what point > > does one draw the line in achieving ones own happiness when it would > > cause someone else's sadness? **When does it become selfish to only think > > of your own happiness?* I agree with but I am guessing that if you're asking this question you probably aren't striving for your won happiness but being aware that there can be a conflict. People who are just striving for their own happiness probably wouldn't bother to ask this question. I do know of people though who go to such extremes to subordinate themselves to others that they end up feeling miserable and unfulfilled and I guess that is not going to make anyone else happy in the long run at least not anyone who also things along the lines is suggesting, Debbie. Do you have a particular reason for asking the question? Or is it just a general topic for discussion<G>? Louise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 HI Debbie, I think it depends on the circumstances. If you are with someone that does not want your happiness and just wants to bring you down? Then you would have to, I would think, rethink the relationship. If you are acheiving happines by hurting someone like, and I can't imagine this is the case, taking something away from someone that would be different. I have spent alot of years being kind to everyone else and forgetting about me. I had to change that and yes I got some complaints by the ones that were benefiting but they got used to it and I had to start thinking about myself more, not exclusively. I don't know if that is what you meant. It is, of course, my very humble experience only. Robyn -------------- Original message ---------------------- > > Maybe you can all help me out on this one [] at what point does one > draw the line in achieving ones own happiness when it would cause > someone else's sadness? When does it become selfish to only think of > your own happiness? > > Debbie > > Maybe you can all help me out on this one at what point does one draw the line in achieving ones own happiness when it would cause someone else's sadness? When does it become selfish to only think of your own happiness? Debbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 Dear Robyn: If you re-read my post, I think you will see that I meant no harm. Bill Re: Drawing the line HI Debbie, I think it depends on the circumstances. If you are with someone that does not want your happiness and just wants to bring you down? Then you would have to, I would think, rethink the relationship. If you are acheiving happines by hurting someone like, and I can't imagine this is the case, taking something away from someone that would be different. I have spent alot of years being kind to everyone else and forgetting about me. I had to change that and yes I got some complaints by the ones that were benefiting but they got used to it and I had to start thinking about myself more, not exclusively. I don't know if that is what you meant. It is, of course, my very humble experience only. Robyn --------- Drawing the line Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 20:09:20 +0000 Maybe you can all help me out on this one at what point does one draw the line in achieving ones own happiness when it would cause someone else's sadness? When does it become selfish to only think of your own happiness? Debbie Tis the season to save your money! Get the new AOL Holiday Toolbar for money saving offers and gift ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 HI Bill, Didn't mean you. I was talking purely generally. I didn't think this question was about anyone on this list. I was thinking about people like my ex and that sort of thing. Kind Regards, Robyn --------- Drawing the line Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 20:09:20 +0000 Maybe you can all help me out on this one at what point does one draw the line in achieving ones own happiness when it would cause someone else's sadness? When does it become selfish to only think of your own happiness? Debbie Tis the season to save your money! Get the new AOL Holiday Toolbar for money saving offers and gift ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 Dear Robyn, I think this "Bill " is sort of hyper-sensitive. I might avoid him in the future. Bill Re: Drawing the line HI Bill, Didn't mean you. I was talking purely generally. I didn't think this question was about anyone on this list. I was thinking about people like my ex and that sort of thing. Kind Regards, Robyn --------- Drawing the line Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 20:09:20 +0000 Maybe you can all help me out on this one at what point does one draw the line in achieving ones own happiness when it would cause someone else's sadness? When does it become selfish to only think of your own happiness? Debbie Tis the season to save your money! Get the new AOL Holiday Toolbar for money saving offers and gift ideas. Tis the season to save your money! Get the new AOL Holiday Toolbar for money saving offers and gift ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 No avoiding. That is what I am stopping. LOL. --------- Drawing the line Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 20:09:20 +0000 Maybe you can all help me out on this one at what point does one draw the line in achieving ones own happiness when it would cause someone else's sadness? When does it become selfish to only think of your own happiness? Debbie Tis the season to save your money! Get the new AOL Holiday Toolbar for money saving offers and gift ideas. Tis the season to save your money! Get the new AOL Holiday Toolbar for money saving offers and gift ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 Generally I am someone who goes to extremes in subordinating my wants and feelings to make other people happy so I am speaking purely hypothetical here. I think it can be often dangerous to let other people's happiness dictate your choices. There is an ironic contradiction in that the people who love and care for us most primarily want to see us safe and ordinary for their own sakes. Being safe is not always the best path to follow in life. We restrict our choices and stay away from anything that may cause major failure. I grew up with a hyper-anxious mother who passed her general terror of the world on to me. Looking back I realize that a lot of the choices I could have made to make me a lot happier would have had to cause her a lot more distress. I think it is almost a neccesary pre-condition for leading a full life that we cause the ones closest to us a bit of worry. > > > Maybe you can all help me out on this one [] at what point does one > draw the line in achieving ones own happiness when it would cause > someone else's sadness? When does it become selfish to only think of > your own happiness? > > Debbie > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 I think I know what you mean. I believe that we have to be a bit selfish. The late Albert Ellis stated that we need to be 60% selfish and 40% caring for others. Sometimes, I feel that if we are 100% selfish, this is the best for others. When you feel good, are you not automatically kind to others. I am beginning to, at the age of 57, to find this true. And when we feel bad, we are not nice to others. So... Bill Van Nuys, California Re: Drawing the line Generally I am someone who goes to extremes in subordinating my wants and feelings to make other people happy so I am speaking purely hypothetical here. I think it can be often dangerous to let other people's happiness dictate your choices. There is an ironic contradiction in that the people who love and care for us most primarily want to see us safe and ordinary for their own sakes. Being safe is not always the best path to follow in life. We restrict our choices and stay away from anything that may cause major failure. I grew up with a hyper-anxious mother who passed her general terror of the world on to me. Looking back I realize that a lot of the choices I could have made to make me a lot happier would have had to cause her a lot more distress. I think it is almost a neccesary pre-condition for leading a full life that we cause the ones closest to us a bit of worry. > > > Maybe you can all help me out on this one [] at what point does one > draw the line in achieving ones own happiness when it would cause > someone else's sadness? When does it become selfish to only think of > your own happiness? > > Debbie > Tis the season to save your money! Get the new AOL Holiday Toolbar for money saving offers and gift ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 Hi everyone I love misquoting Steve , because when I do, he may pop up, correct me and add a pearl of wisdom that is definitely worth keeping J I seem to remember somewhere that he, in turn, quoted the Beatles, saying, “all you need is love”, and I think this is a useful perspective. Now I want to take a chunk out of Russ ’ “The Happiness Trap” (page 250) “Suppose you’re in a loving, committed relationship and your partner wants to invite his or her father over for dinner. And suppose that you intensely dislike your partner’s father. You dislike his dress sense; you dislike his aftershave; you dislike his opinions and his boastfulness and his arrogance. Yet inviting this man for dinner would mean the worlds to your partner. If it’s really important for you to support your partner, then you could invite this man over for dinner, greet him warmly at the door, welcome him into your house and make him feel completely at home, even though you intensely dislike him”. Russ used that example in the context of willingness, which is about a preparedness to take committed action towards moving along the path of our values. And when we think about values, the idea of love rises to the surface. Problem – that word has become so debased that it is sometimes difficult to use it effectively. But if we accept love in the broad sense as a blend of compassion, humour, acceptance, trust, grace, honour, loyalty, honesty, and just enough silliness to give it flavour, then we may be heading in a useful direction. Gordon Livingston, in one of his thought-provoking articles started with this quotation from Dani Shapiro, “No one tells us that the only unconditional love in this world is between parent and child. … But passion between a man and a woman is finite. If it lasts a thousand days, count yourself lucky …” A bit cynical, but containing a germ of truth, I think. To reinforce some of these ideas, although I don’t generally like quoting scripture, as it is too easy to be misunderstood, a reading of the 13th chapter of ’s first letter to the Corinthians talks a lot of sense about love that we can usefully incorporate into ACT and our values. Underlying all these issues about drawing the line is the whole idea of working with our values to achieve psychological flexibility and a rich, full and meaningful life. That requires us to love one another. And we can apply a “workability” test to anything we do – is this action in accordance with my values? If it is, do more of it. If it isn’t, look for avoidance and defusion. Regards Kinna This e-mail is personal. It is not authorised by, nor sent on behalf of the Department of Health or the Government of South Australia. From: ACT_for_the_Public [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of billboy1951@... Sent: Monday, 1 December 2008 3:08 PM To: ACT_for_the_Public Subject: Re: Re: Drawing the line I think I know what you mean. I believe that we have to be a bit selfish. The late Albert Ellis stated that we need to be 60% selfish and 40% caring for others. Sometimes, I feel that if we are 100% selfish, this is the best for others. When you feel good, are you not automatically kind to others. I am beginning to, at the age of 57, to find this true. And when we feel bad, we are not nice to others. So... Bill Van Nuys, California Re: Drawing the line Generally I am someone who goes to extremes in subordinating my wants and feelings to make other people happy so I am speaking purely hypothetical here. I think it can be often dangerous to let other people's happiness dictate your choices. There is an ironic contradiction in that the people who love and care for us most primarily want to see us safe and ordinary for their own sakes. Being safe is not always the best path to follow in life. We restrict our choices and stay away from anything that may cause major failure. I grew up with a hyper-anxious mother who passed her general terror of the world on to me. Looking back I realize that a lot of the choices I could have made to make me a lot happier would have had to cause her a lot more distress. I think it is almost a neccesary pre-condition for leading a full life that we cause the ones closest to us a bit of worry. > > > Maybe you can all help me out on this one [] at what point does one > draw the line in achieving ones own happiness when it would cause > someone else's sadness? When does it become selfish to only think of > your own happiness? > > Debbie > Tis the season to save your money! Get the new AOL Holiday Toolbar for money saving offers and gift ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 I think I have some problems in this area. Whenever I do something I consider selfish I feel very guilty. I find it very difficult to be selfish, I end up apologising a lot, or carrying on with too many thank you's when I do ask for what I want. It's tricky. I often think if the people around me are happy I will feel good too. I don't even know half the time what I do want.... When we do what we value we will sooner or later step on someone's toes and then have to make a decision whether to go forward with our own needs and wants or whether to please the other person. I don't know. I find it all very difficult. hmmm, one of those days today. > > > > > > Maybe you can all help me out on this one [] at what point does one > > draw the line in achieving ones own happiness when it would cause > > someone else's sadness? When does it become selfish to only think of > > your own happiness? > > > > Debbie > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 I believe he does want my happiness but in his view of happiness. However like so many of you have replied saying that our own happiness is then put aside in order not to shatter the other persons happiness. Why do we take on the responsibility of another's happiness when we seem to care so little for our own. Yet when we finally stand & say " actually my happiness does matter" we are accused of being selfish & as someone said we are then consumed with guilt & stay put so that they can remain happy or rather content in their lives. But then here's a different angle that also goes through my mind, what if it's my distorted thinking that makes me feel I'm not happy & not the fact that it's the relationship. Is that me searching for reasons to convince myself that I should stay? just that if I continue with my meditations then maybe my own inner happiness will surface & things around me will automatically alter to a state of calmness & contentment within & around me. I'm not after happiness as in materialistic things or having situations happen the way I want them to, I suppose it's more feeling good within, liking myself & knowing that actually I matter, to which will then be bestowed onto others with kindness I hope I'm making sense. Debbie >> HI Debbie, > > I think it depends on the circumstances. If you are with someone that does not want your happiness and just wants to bring you down? Then you would have to, I would think, rethink the relationship. > > If you are acheiving happines by hurting someone like, and I can't imagine this is the case, taking something away from someone that would be different. > > I have spent alot of years being kind to everyone else and forgetting about me. I had to change that and yes I got some complaints by the ones that were benefiting but they got used to it and I had to start thinking about myself more, not exclusively. I don't know if that is what you meant. It is, of course, my very humble experience only. > > Robyn > > > -------------- Original message ----------------------> > > > Maybe you can all help me out on this one [] at what point does one> > draw the line in achieving ones own happiness when it would cause> > someone else's sadness? When does it become selfish to only think of> > your own happiness?> > > > Debbie> > > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 Dear Bill, DUH! Helena : ) Drawing the line Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 20:09:20 +0000 Maybe you can all help me out on this one at what point does one draw the line in achieving ones own happiness when it would cause someone else's sadness? When does it become selfish to only think of your own happiness? Debbie Tis the season to save your money! Get the new AOL Holiday Toolbar for money saving offers and gift ideas. Tis the season to save your money! Get the new AOL Holiday Toolbar for money saving offers and gift ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 Hi Debbie, Maybe you can't sort this out simply by looking at your own values and feelings and meditating on yor own and then wondering if you're being selfish or trying to convince yourself. Maybe you have to both decide your values and share them and both see whether your fooling yourselves or maybe both can move closer together with some shared values? Take care, Louise > > > > HI Debbie, > > > > I think it depends on the circumstances. If you are with someone that > does not want your happiness and just wants to bring you down? Then you > would have to, I would think, rethink the relationship. > > > > If you are acheiving happines by hurting someone like, and I can't > imagine this is the case, taking something away from someone that would > be different. > > > > I have spent alot of years being kind to everyone else and forgetting > about me. I had to change that and yes I got some complaints by the ones > that were benefiting but they got used to it and I had to start thinking > about myself more, not exclusively. I don't know if that is what you > meant. It is, of course, my very humble experience only. > > > > Robyn > > > > > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > > From: " Debbie " debbie.100@ > > > > > > Maybe you can all help me out on this one [] at what point does > one > > > draw the line in achieving ones own happiness when it would cause > > > someone else's sadness? When does it become selfish to only think of > > > your own happiness? > > > > > > Debbie > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 Dear Helena: Well, I have nothing to say about that. I think the issue has been resolved. Anything else would add further confusion to the matter. Actually, I do have one further thing to add about issues of this sort. DUH! Re: Drawing the line Dear Bill, DUH! Helena : ) Drawing the line Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 20:09:20 +0000 Maybe you can all help me out on this one at what point does one draw the line in achieving ones own happiness when it would cause someone else's sadness? When does it become selfish to only think of your own happiness? Debbie Tis the season to save your money! Get the new AOL Holiday Toolbar for money saving offers and gift ideas. Tis the season to save your money! Get the new AOL Holiday Toolbar for money saving offers and gift ideas. Tis the season to save your money! Get the new AOL Holiday Toolbar for money saving offers and gift ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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