RE: Can defusion ever become a habit?

[Guest guest]

My experience is that I can defuse almost instantly now that I have developed the skill. There is a moment of interpretation during which you decide if (LOOK AT) the thought is useful or not (and before thinking FROM the thought.) It's a matter of stopping at the LOOK AT step before your mind takes you down a rat hole (THINKING FROM THE THOUGHT.) The thought may circle around several times to test your sorting skills.

You must do the values work for ACT to work and you must be committed to moving ahead with your hands and feet towards you values. Acceptance is an act of doing, not an act of thinking.

I see a clear difference between mindfulness and observing self. Mindfulness is being in the present. Observing self is noticing what goes on while you are being mindful. These are integral parts of ACT and must be integrated into your life for you to achieve the full benefit. I know many people who try to meditate their way out of their funk, trying to duplicate the Eastern approach. Most of us Westerners are way to "busy" for that. To me ACT is a three-legged stool. leg one is acceptance/defusion. Leg two is observing self/mindfulness. Leg three is values/commitment to living a valued life. For the stool to be stable it must have three strong legs.

ACT is not a buffet. It's a full course dinner that must be completed for satisfaction.

I'm an engineer, not a trained ACT person. I've conveyed by understanding of ACT. My apologies to the experts. But workability is integral to ACT and I've achieved that.

Your questions are thoughtful and indicate you are on the right track

Hang in there,

Bill

To: ACT_for_the_Public From: pppboy21@...Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 14:41:32 +0000Subject: Can defusion ever become a habit?

Hi all, Am just wondering if anyone knows if defusion skills can become a habit if practised regularly? I've taken to practising them a lot more now as I was previously only doing so when I 'felt' like it...I'm determined to stick with it on a daily basis and am also aware that consistency = skill. I've a few other hurdles to get past such as building my willingness skills and values work but for now I'm going to focus mainly on defusion. Another quick question I'd like to hear others thoughts on is - is the mindfulness aspect (mainly the observing self bit) neccesary for the other ACT skills? The reason I ask is that after practising that type of mindfulness I found I was so aware of things more than usual that it became overwhelming (ie. there was a lot more I needed to be willing and defused for).

[Guest guest]

" To me ACT is a three-legged stool. leg one is acceptance/defusion.

Leg two is observing self/mindfulness. Leg three is values/commitment

to living a valued life. For the stool to be stable it must have three

strong legs. "

I think that is an excellent way of describing it. :-)

[Guest guest]

this is excellent, thank you!

>

>

> My experience is that I can defuse almost instantly now that I have

developed the skill. There is a moment of interpretation during which

you decide if (LOOK AT) the thought is useful or not (and before

thinking FROM the thought.) It's a matter of stopping at the LOOK AT

step before your mind takes you down a rat hole (THINKING FROM THE

THOUGHT.) The thought may circle around several times to test your

sorting skills.

>

> You must do the values work for ACT to work and you must be

committed to moving ahead with your hands and feet towards you

values. Acceptance is an act of doing, not an act of thinking.

>

> I see a clear difference between mindfulness and observing self.

Mindfulness is being in the present. Observing self is noticing what

goes on while you are being mindful. These are integral parts of ACT

and must be integrated into your life for you to achieve the full

benefit. I know many people who try to meditate their way out of

their funk, trying to duplicate the Eastern approach. Most of us

Westerners are way to " busy " for that. To me ACT is a three-legged

stool. leg one is acceptance/defusion. Leg two is observing

self/mindfulness. Leg three is values/commitment to living a valued

life. For the stool to be stable it must have three strong legs.

>

> ACT is not a buffet. It's a full course dinner that must be

completed for satisfaction.

>

> I'm an engineer, not a trained ACT person. I've conveyed by

understanding of ACT. My apologies to the experts. But workability is

integral to ACT and I've achieved that.

>

> Your questions are thoughtful and indicate you are on the right

track

>

> Hang in there,

> Bill

>

>

>

> To: ACT_for_the_Public@...: pppboy21@...: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 14:41:32

+0000Subject: Can defusion ever become a habit?

>

>

>

> Hi all, Am just wondering if anyone knows if defusion skills can

become a habit if practised regularly? I've taken to practising them

a lot more now as I was previously only doing so when I 'felt' like

it...I'm determined to stick with it on a daily basis and am also

aware that consistency = skill. I've a few other hurdles to get past

such as building my willingness skills and values work but for now

I'm going to focus mainly on defusion. Another quick question I'd

like to hear others thoughts on is - is the mindfulness aspect

(mainly the observing self bit) neccesary for the other ACT skills?

The reason I ask is that after practising that type of mindfulness I

found I was so aware of things more than usual that it became

overwhelming (ie. there was a lot more I needed to be willing and

defused for).

>

[Guest guest]

Bill, the 3 legged stool is a nice way to describe ACT. Neat.

The skills in ACT run counter to just about everything we’ve

learned since kindergarten regarding our pain in relation to ourselves and our

lives. As you learn them, they can become more readily available.

In my experience, I’ve found that space to see many options when my mind

and old history tells me there are very few. So, as Bill points out,

practice is key. Just do that practice with a sense of lightness and curiosity.

I say that because it is easy to slide into using ACT with a sense of urgency –

the same kind of urgency we may apply to our pain using old tactics and

skills. It is, as if, something must be done now, when in fact, there may

be nothing to do apart from being right where you are, just as you are, and

choosing what you want to do.

Peace -j

P. Forsyth, Ph.D.

Associate Professor of Psychology

Director of Clinical Training

Director, Mindfulness & Acceptance Research Program /

Anxiety Disorders Research Program

University at Albany, SUNY

Department of Psychology

Social Science 369

1400 Washington Avenue

Albany, NY 12222

Ph:

Fax:

email: forsyth@...

Web

[Guest guest]

bill, was wondering if you could give any other tips stopping at the look at step. "It's a matter of stopping at the LOOK AT step before your mind takes

you down a rat hole (THINKING FROM THE THOUGHT.) The thought may circle

around several times to test your sorting skills."i get pulled down really hard by thoughts. often, i can have a panic attack, just by thinking about it. what if thinking becomes reality -russSubject: RE: Can defusion ever become a habit?To: "ACT_for_the_Public" <act_for_the_public >Date: Thursday, December 18, 2008, 5:16 PM

My experience is that I can defuse almost instantly now that I have developed the skill. There is a moment of interpretation during which you decide if (LOOK AT) the thought is useful or not (and before thinking FROM the thought.) It's a matter of stopping at the LOOK AT step before your mind takes you down a rat hole (THINKING FROM THE THOUGHT.) The thought may circle around several times to test your sorting skills.

You must do the values work for ACT to work and you must be committed to moving ahead with your hands and feet towards you values. Acceptance is an act of doing, not an act of thinking.

I see a clear difference between mindfulness and observing self. Mindfulness is being in the present. Observing self is noticing what goes on while you are being mindful. These are integral parts of ACT and must be integrated into your life for you to achieve the full benefit. I know many people who try to meditate their way out of their funk, trying to duplicate the Eastern approach. Most of us Westerners are way to "busy" for that. To me ACT is a three-legged stool. leg one is acceptance/defusion . Leg two is observing self/mindfulness. Leg three is values/commitment to living a valued life. For the stool to be stable it must have three strong legs.

ACT is not a buffet. It's a full course dinner that must be completed for satisfaction.

I'm an engineer, not a trained ACT person. I've conveyed by understanding of ACT. My apologies to the experts. But workability is integral to ACT and I've achieved that.

Your questions are thoughtful and indicate you are on the right track

Hang in there,

Bill

To: ACT_for_the_ Public@yahoogrou ps.comFrom: pppboy21yahoo (DOT) comDate: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 14:41:32 +0000Subject: [ACT_for_the_ Public] Can defusion ever become a habit?

Hi all, Am just wondering if anyone knows if defusion skills can become a habit if practised regularly? I've taken to practising them a lot more now as I was previously only doing so when I 'felt' like it...I'm determined to stick with it on a daily basis and am also aware that consistency = skill. I've a few other hurdles to get past such as building my willingness skills and values work but for now I'm going to focus mainly on defusion. Another quick question I'd like to hear others thoughts on is - is the mindfulness aspect (mainly the observing self bit) neccesary for the other ACT skills? The reason I ask is that after practising that type of mindfulness I found I was so aware of things more than usual that it became overwhelming (ie. there was a lot more I needed to be willing and defused for).

[Guest guest]

Russ - I think the key is to develop your observing-self skills so you recognize the moment your mind takes off with a thought and to acknowledge that that is what is happening. My mind is constantly presenting random thoughts. The secret is to recognize them as just thoughts rather than add credence to them by looking from them or expanding them. The sooner you can catch this happening the quicker you can defuse from the thought. My breakthrough came from The Happiness Trap by Russ where he says if a thought is not useful, don't buy into it. The trick is to not let your mind run with the thought as you try to decide if it's useful or not. Maybe it's like a manufacturing assembly line. Your mind is constantly manufacturing thoughts and your observant self serves as a quality control process, letting useful thoughts go by and throwing unuseful thoughts in the scrap bin. This analogy is wrought with ACT imprecision. Perhaps the group can hone it.

There are many good exercises to help you develop your observant self. As mentioned in a couple of other posts this evening, approach this process with curiosity rather than being fearful. CURIOSITY is an extremely important attribute in the ACT journey. Try it instead of fear of what your mind might present. Marvel at the power of the mind rather than being afraid. After all, nearly all of the stuff your mind presents is just words and images. Very little of it is real. The words "WHAT IF" usually mark the line between looking at the thought and looking from the thought.

Seems awfully rambling. I hope it's helpful.

Bill

To: ACT_for_the_Public From: russogn@...Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 16:45:14 -0800Subject: RE: Can defusion ever become a habit?

bill, was wondering if you could give any other tips stopping at the look at step. "It's a matter of stopping at the LOOK AT step before your mind takes you down a rat hole (THINKING FROM THE THOUGHT.) The thought may circle around several times to test your sorting skills."i get pulled down really hard by thoughts. often, i can have a panic attack, just by thinking about it. what if thinking becomes reality -russ

From: BILL CAMERON <wcameromsn>Subject: RE: Can defusion ever become a habit?To: "ACT_for_the_Public" <act_for_the_public >Date: Thursday, December 18, 2008, 5:16 PM

My experience is that I can defuse almost instantly now that I have developed the skill. There is a moment of interpretation during which you decide if (LOOK AT) the thought is useful or not (and before thinking FROM the thought.) It's a matter of stopping at the LOOK AT step before your mind takes you down a rat hole (THINKING FROM THE THOUGHT.) The thought may circle around several times to test your sorting skills. You must do the values work for ACT to work and you must be committed to moving ahead with your hands and feet towards you values. Acceptance is an act of doing, not an act of thinking. I see a clear difference between mindfulness and observing self. Mindfulness is being in the present. Observing self is noticing what goes on while you are being mindful. These are integral parts of ACT and must be integrated into your life for you to achieve the full benefit. I know many people who try to meditate their way out of their funk, trying to duplicate the Eastern approach. Most of us Westerners are way to "busy" for that. To me ACT is a three-legged stool. leg one is acceptance/defusion . Leg two is observing self/mindfulness. Leg three is values/commitment to living a valued life. For the stool to be stable it must have three strong legs. ACT is not a buffet. It's a full course dinner that must be completed for satisfaction. I'm an engineer, not a trained ACT person. I've conveyed by understanding of ACT. My apologies to the experts. But workability is integral to ACT and I've achieved that. Your questions are thoughtful and indicate you are on the right track Hang in there,Bill

To: ACT_for_the_ Public@yahoogrou ps.comFrom: pppboy21yahoo (DOT) comDate: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 14:41:32 +0000Subject: [ACT_for_the_ Public] Can defusion ever become a habit?

Hi all, Am just wondering if anyone knows if defusion skills can become a habit if practised regularly? I've taken to practising them a lot more now as I was previously only doing so when I 'felt' like it...I'm determined to stick with it on a daily basis and am also aware that consistency = skill. I've a few other hurdles to get past such as building my willingness skills and values work but for now I'm going to focus mainly on defusion. Another quick question I'd like to hear others thoughts on is - is the mindfulness aspect (mainly the observing self bit) neccesary for the other ACT skills? The reason I ask is that after practising that type of mindfulness I found I was so aware of things more than usual that it became overwhelming (ie. there was a lot more I needed to be willing and defused for).

[Guest guest]

Thanks, . I agree with your suggestion about CURIOSITY. Bill

To: ACT_for_the_Public From: Forsyth@...Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 08:15:50 -0500Subject: RE: Re: Can defusion ever become a habit?

Bill, the 3 legged stool is a nice way to describe ACT. Neat.

The skills in ACT run counter to just about everything we’ve learned since kindergarten regarding our pain in relation to ourselves and our lives. As you learn them, they can become more readily available. In my experience, I’ve found that space to see many options when my mind and old history tells me there are very few. So, as Bill points out, practice is key. Just do that practice with a sense of lightness and curiosity. I say that because it is easy to slide into using ACT with a sense of urgency – the same kind of urgency we may apply to our pain using old tactics and skills. It is, as if, something must be done now, when in fact, there may be nothing to do apart from being right where you are, just as you are, and choosing what you want to do.

Peace -j

P. Forsyth, Ph.D.

Associate Professor of Psychology

Director of Clinical Training

Director, Mindfulness & Acceptance Research Program / Anxiety Disorders Research Program

University at Albany, SUNY

Department of Psychology

Social Science 369

1400 Washington Avenue

Albany, NY 12222

Ph:

Fax:

email: forsythalbany (DOT) edu

Web

[Guest guest]

Hi Bill,

As you’ve noted, there is some ACT imprecision here. The

idea of “quality control” doesn’t really fit. Nor the bit

about “throwing unuseful thoughts in the scrap bin”; this sounds

suspiciously like experiential avoidance/ thought stopping etc. Not a good idea:

throw them in the bin and they’re likely to bounce straight back out

again.

However, your analogy does work very well in one part: the idea

of letting thoughts come and go on an assembly line, and picking up the

ones that are useful. No need to try throwing away the unhelpful ones; just let

them come and go, come and go, come and go. And if they’re useful –

in the sense that the information contained within those thoughts can help you to

live by your values – then by all means pick them up; but even then, hold

them lightly.

Hi Russ,

Those “What If” thoughts are particularly sticky for

most folks. The following metaphor could be helpful. Suppose you’re driving

your car under really challenging traffic & weather conditions, where it’s

imperative you keep your attention on the road. And suppose there’s a

passenger beside you saying, “What if you crash the car?” “What

if a truck comes around the corner, and smashes into you?” “What if

your car engine explodes?” “What if a young kid suddenly rushes out

in front of your car?”

What happens to your driving if you start giving all your

attention to your passenger – yelling at him to shut up, or trying

to convince him that those things won’t happen, or getting completely

absorbed in what he is saying? What works in this situation is to let the

passenger say whatever he wants, and keep your attention on your driving.

Cheers, Russ

Russ

PO Box 5079

Alphington, Vic 3058

www.thehappinesstrap.com

www.actmindfully.com.au

From: ACT_for_the_Public

[mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of BILL CAMERON

Sent: Saturday, 20 December 2008 3:37 PM

To: ACT_for_the_Public

Subject: RE: Can defusion ever become a habit?

Russ - I think the key is to develop your

observing-self skills so you recognize the moment your mind takes off with a

thought and to acknowledge that that is what is happening. My mind is

constantly presenting random thoughts. The secret is to recognize them as just

thoughts rather than add credence to them by looking from them or expanding

them. The sooner you can catch this happening the quicker you can defuse from

the thought. My breakthrough came from The Happiness Trap by Russ

where he says if a thought is not useful, don't buy into it. The trick

is to not let your mind run with the thought as you try to decide if it's

useful or not. Maybe it's like a manufacturing assembly line. Your mind is

constantly manufacturing thoughts and your observant self serves as a quality

control process, letting useful thoughts go by and throwing unuseful thoughts

in the scrap bin. This analogy is wrought with ACT imprecision. Perhaps the

group can hone it.

There are many good exercises to help you develop your observant self. As

mentioned in a couple of other posts this evening, approach this process with

curiosity rather than being fearful. CURIOSITY is an extremely important

attribute in the ACT journey. Try it instead of fear of what your mind might

present. Marvel at the power of the mind rather than being afraid. After all,

nearly all of the stuff your mind presents is just words and images. Very

little of it is real. The words " WHAT IF " usually mark the line

between looking at the thought and looking from the thought.

Seems awfully rambling. I hope it's helpful.

Bill

To: ACT_for_the_Public

From: russogn@...

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 16:45:14 -0800

Subject: RE: Can defusion ever become a habit?

bill,

was wondering if you could give any other tips stopping at the look at

step.

" It's a matter of stopping at the LOOK AT step before your mind

takes you down a rat hole (THINKING FROM THE THOUGHT.) The thought may circle

around several times to test your sorting skills. "

i get pulled down really hard by thoughts. often, i can have a panic attack,

just by thinking about it. what if thinking becomes reality

-russ

Subject: RE: Can defusion ever become a habit?

To: " ACT_for_the_Public " <act_for_the_public >

Date: Thursday, December 18, 2008, 5:16 PM

My experience is that I can defuse almost

instantly now that I have developed the skill. There is a moment of

interpretation during which you decide if (LOOK AT) the thought is

useful or not (and before thinking FROM the thought.) It's a matter of

stopping at the LOOK AT step before your mind takes you down a rat hole

(THINKING FROM THE THOUGHT.) The thought may circle around several times to

test your sorting skills.

You must do the values work for ACT to work and you must be committed to

moving ahead with your hands and feet towards you values. Acceptance is an

act of doing, not an act of thinking.

I see a clear difference between mindfulness and observing self. Mindfulness

is being in the present. Observing self is noticing what goes on while you

are being mindful. These are integral parts of ACT and must be integrated

into your life for you to achieve the full benefit. I know many people who

try to meditate their way out of their funk, trying to duplicate the Eastern

approach. Most of us Westerners are way to " busy " for that. To me

ACT is a three-legged stool. leg one is acceptance/defusion . Leg two is

observing self/mindfulness. Leg three is values/commitment to living a valued

life. For the stool to be stable it must have three strong legs.

ACT is not a buffet. It's a full course dinner that must be completed for

satisfaction.

I'm an engineer, not a trained ACT person. I've conveyed by understanding of

ACT. My apologies to the experts. But workability is integral to ACT and I've

achieved that.

Your questions are thoughtful and indicate you are on the right track

Hang in there,

Bill

To: ACT_for_the_ Public@yahoogrou ps.com

From: pppboy21yahoo (DOT) com

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 14:41:32 +0000

Subject: [ACT_for_the_ Public] Can defusion ever become a habit?

Hi all,

Am just wondering if anyone knows if defusion skills can become a habit

if practised regularly? I've taken to practising them a lot more now as

I was previously only doing so when I 'felt' like it...I'm determined

to stick with it on a daily basis and am also aware that consistency =

skill.

I've a few other hurdles to get past such as building my willingness

skills and values work but for now I'm going to focus mainly on

defusion.

Another quick question I'd like to hear others thoughts on is - is the

mindfulness aspect (mainly the observing self bit) neccesary for the

other ACT skills? The reason I ask is that after practising that type

of mindfulness I found I was so aware of things more than usual that it

became overwhelming (ie. there was a lot more I needed to be willing

and defused for).

[Guest guest]

I like this, I'm so exhausted that ACT became too stressful after a

while which ended up being counterproductive. I now take a gentler,

non striving approach, like claire Weeks's floating. If sometimes I

fail to go out dancing I do play my guitar or keyboards instead

(which I prefer, anyway) and I let the thought that I have failed

float by. It is still painful that I did not go out, but that's the

way it should be as I do desire a better social life. That's the spur

that gets me out the next time when I'm in better shape.

Thanks .

Kavy

>

> Bill, the 3 legged stool is a nice way to describe ACT. Neat.

>

>

>

> The skills in ACT run counter to just about everything we've learned

> since kindergarten regarding our pain in relation to ourselves and

our

> lives. As you learn them, they can become more readily available.

In

> my experience, I've found that space to see many options when my

mind

> and old history tells me there are very few. So, as Bill points

out,

> practice is key. Just do that practice with a sense of lightness

and

> curiosity. I say that because it is easy to slide into using ACT

with a

> sense of urgency - the same kind of urgency we may apply to our pain

> using old tactics and skills. It is, as if, something must be done

now,

> when in fact, there may be nothing to do apart from being right

where

> you are, just as you are, and choosing what you want to do.

>

>

>

> Peace -j

>

>

>

> P. Forsyth, Ph.D.

>

> Associate Professor of Psychology

>

> Director of Clinical Training

>

> Director, Mindfulness & Acceptance Research Program / Anxiety

Disorders

> Research Program

>

> University at Albany, SUNY

>

> Department of Psychology

>

> Social Science 369

>

> 1400 Washington Avenue

>

> Albany, NY 12222

>

>

>

> Ph:

>

> Fax:

>

> email: forsyth@...

>

>

>

> Web

[Guest guest]

How about a sushi bar where the dishes are on a conveyor? Watch the dishes go by and pick the ones that please you. Let the others go by without comment.

Bill

To: ACT_for_the_Public From: russharris@...Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 19:48:56 +1100Subject: RE: Can defusion ever become a habit?

Hi Bill,

As you’ve noted, there is some ACT imprecision here. The idea of “quality control” doesn’t really fit. Nor the bit about “throwing unuseful thoughts in the scrap bin”; this sounds suspiciously like experiential avoidance/ thought stopping etc. Not a good idea: throw them in the bin and they’re likely to bounce straight back out again.

However, your analogy does work very well in one part: the idea of letting thoughts come and go on an assembly line, and picking up the ones that are useful. No need to try throwing away the unhelpful ones; just let them come and go, come and go, come and go. And if they’re useful – in the sense that the information contained within those thoughts can help you to live by your values – then by all means pick them up; but even then, hold them lightly.

Hi Russ,

Those “What If” thoughts are particularly sticky for most folks. The following metaphor could be helpful. Suppose you’re driving your car under really challenging traffic & weather conditions, where it’s imperative you keep your attention on the road. And suppose there’s a passenger beside you saying, “What if you crash the car?” “What if a truck comes around the corner, and smashes into you?” “What if your car engine explodes?” “What if a young kid suddenly rushes out in front of your car?”

What happens to your driving if you start giving all your attention to your passenger – yelling at him to shut up, or trying to convince him that those things won’t happen, or getting completely absorbed in what he is saying? What works in this situation is to let the passenger say whatever he wants, and keep your attention on your driving.

Cheers, Russ

Russ

PO Box 5079

Alphington, Vic 3058

www.thehappinesstrap.com

www.actmindfully.com.au

From: ACT_for_the_Public [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of BILL CAMERONSent: Saturday, 20 December 2008 3:37 PMTo: ACT_for_the_PublicSubject: RE: Can defusion ever become a habit?

Russ - I think the key is to develop your observing-self skills so you recognize the moment your mind takes off with a thought and to acknowledge that that is what is happening. My mind is constantly presenting random thoughts. The secret is to recognize them as just thoughts rather than add credence to them by looking from them or expanding them. The sooner you can catch this happening the quicker you can defuse from the thought. My breakthrough came from The Happiness Trap by Russ where he says if a thought is not useful, don't buy into it. The trick is to not let your mind run with the thought as you try to decide if it's useful or not. Maybe it's like a manufacturing assembly line. Your mind is constantly manufacturing thoughts and your observant self serves as a quality control process, letting useful thoughts go by and throwing unuseful thoughts in the scrap bin. This analogy is wrought with ACT imprecision. Perhaps the group can hone it. There are many good exercises to help you develop your observant self. As mentioned in a couple of other posts this evening, approach this process with curiosity rather than being fearful. CURIOSITY is an extremely important attribute in the ACT journey. Try it instead of fear of what your mind might present. Marvel at the power of the mind rather than being afraid. After all, nearly all of the stuff your mind presents is just words and images. Very little of it is real. The words "WHAT IF" usually mark the line between looking at the thought and looking from the thought. Seems awfully rambling. I hope it's helpful. Bill

To: ACT_for_the_Public From: russognDate: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 16:45:14 -0800Subject: RE: Can defusion ever become a habit?

bill, was wondering if you could give any other tips stopping at the look at step. "It's a matter of stopping at the LOOK AT step before your mind takes you down a rat hole (THINKING FROM THE THOUGHT.) The thought may circle around several times to test your sorting skills."i get pulled down really hard by thoughts. often, i can have a panic attack, just by thinking about it. what if thinking becomes reality -russ

From: BILL CAMERON <wcameromsn>Subject: RE: Can defusion ever become a habit?To: "ACT_for_the_Public" <act_for_the_public >Date: Thursday, December 18, 2008, 5:16 PM

My experience is that I can defuse almost instantly now that I have developed the skill. There is a moment of interpretation during which you decide if (LOOK AT) the thought is useful or not (and before thinking FROM the thought.) It's a matter of stopping at the LOOK AT step before your mind takes you down a rat hole (THINKING FROM THE THOUGHT.) The thought may circle around several times to test your sorting skills. You must do the values work for ACT to work and you must be committed to moving ahead with your hands and feet towards you values. Acceptance is an act of doing, not an act of thinking. I see a clear difference between mindfulness and observing self. Mindfulness is being in the present. Observing self is noticing what goes on while you are being mindful. These are integral parts of ACT and must be integrated into your life for you to achieve the full benefit. I know many people who try to meditate their way out of their funk, trying to duplicate the Eastern approach. Most of us Westerners are way to "busy" for that. To me ACT is a three-legged stool. leg one is acceptance/defusion . Leg two is observing self/mindfulness. Leg three is values/commitment to living a valued life. For the stool to be stable it must have three strong legs. ACT is not a buffet. It's a full course dinner that must be completed for satisfaction. I'm an engineer, not a trained ACT person. I've conveyed by understanding of ACT. My apologies to the experts. But workability is integral to ACT and I've achieved that. Your questions are thoughtful and indicate you are on the right track Hang in there,Bill

To: ACT_for_the_ Public@yahoogrou ps.comFrom: pppboy21yahoo (DOT) comDate: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 14:41:32 +0000Subject: [ACT_for_the_ Public] Can defusion ever become a habit?

Hi all, Am just wondering if anyone knows if defusion skills can become a habit if practised regularly? I've taken to practising them a lot more now as I was previously only doing so when I 'felt' like it...I'm determined to stick with it on a daily basis and am also aware that consistency = skill. I've a few other hurdles to get past such as building my willingness skills and values work but for now I'm going to focus mainly on defusion. Another quick question I'd like to hear others thoughts on is - is the mindfulness aspect (mainly the observing self bit) neccesary for the other ACT skills? The reason I ask is that after practising that type of mindfulness I found I was so aware of things more than usual that it became overwhelming (ie. there was a lot more I needed to be willing and defused for).

[Guest guest]

I liked what you said . For some people hammer and tongs might be

just fine but when I found myself too exhausted and stayed in instead

of going dancing I felt guilty. I soon learned to be kind on myself

and do ACT in a non striving floating ( Weeks) kind of way.

I like non striving because I can build up to going out instead of

thinking I MUST GO OUT TONIGHT! Sometimes I do stay in and play my

guitar and keyboards instead which is something I value most highly,

but I also like a social life. I got a nice girlfriend a few months

ago by geting myself out and I used ACT to get the courage to ask her

out.

Kavy

>

> Bill, the 3 legged stool is a nice way to describe ACT. Neat.

>

>

>

> The skills in ACT run counter to just about everything we've learned

> since kindergarten regarding our pain in relation to ourselves and

our

> lives. As you learn them, they can become more readily available.

In

> my experience, I've found that space to see many options when my

mind

> and old history tells me there are very few. So, as Bill points

out,

> practice is key. Just do that practice with a sense of lightness

and

> curiosity. I say that because it is easy to slide into using ACT

with a

> sense of urgency - the same kind of urgency we may apply to our pain

> using old tactics and skills. It is, as if, something must be done

now,

> when in fact, there may be nothing to do apart from being right

where

> you are, just as you are, and choosing what you want to do.

>

>

>

> Peace -j

>

>

>

> P. Forsyth, Ph.D.

>

> Associate Professor of Psychology

>

> Director of Clinical Training

>

> Director, Mindfulness & Acceptance Research Program / Anxiety

Disorders

> Research Program

>

> University at Albany, SUNY

>

> Department of Psychology

>

> Social Science 369

>

> 1400 Washington Avenue

>

> Albany, NY 12222

>

>

>

> Ph:

>

> Fax:

>

> email: forsyth@...

>

>

>

> Web

[Guest guest]

Hi Russ,

I really like this analogy of having someone yelling at you. This is what it is

like for me. Louder sometimes than other times. And I was wondering what to

do with someone yelling at you in really life. And I guess you do the same

thing. I have been using this many times since I read it and it is a really

great picture to use. Thank you.

Robyn

--------- [ACT_for_the_ Public] Can defusion ever become a habit?

Hi all,

Am just wondering if anyone knows if defusion skills can become a habit

if practised regularly? I've taken to practising them a lot more now as

I was previously only doing so when I 'felt' like it...I'm determined

to stick with it on a daily basis and am also aware that consistency =

skill.

I've a few other hurdles to get past such as building my willingness

skills and values work but for now I'm going to focus mainly on

defusion.

Another quick question I'd like to hear others thoughts on is - is the

mindfulness aspect (mainly the observing self bit) neccesary for the

other ACT skills? The reason I ask is that after practising that type

of mindfulness I found I was so aware of things more than usual that it

became overwhelming (ie. there was a lot more I needed to be willing

and defused for).

[Guest guest]

My first post on this subject dissapeared so 8 hours later I wrote

another one. Now, 24 hour later, they both turn up.

And I can spell hobby, my mind is just scrambled.

Kavy

> >

> > Bill, the 3 legged stool is a nice way to describe ACT. Neat.

> >

> >

> >

> > The skills in ACT run counter to just about everything we've

learned

> > since kindergarten regarding our pain in relation to ourselves

and

> our

> > lives. As you learn them, they can become more readily

available.

> In

> > my experience, I've found that space to see many options when my

> mind

> > and old history tells me there are very few. So, as Bill points

> out,

> > practice is key. Just do that practice with a sense of lightness

> and

> > curiosity. I say that because it is easy to slide into using ACT

> with a

> > sense of urgency - the same kind of urgency we may apply to our

pain

> > using old tactics and skills. It is, as if, something must be

done

> now,

> > when in fact, there may be nothing to do apart from being right

> where

> > you are, just as you are, and choosing what you want to do.

> >

> >

> >

> > Peace -j

> >

> >

> >

> > P. Forsyth, Ph.D.

> >

> > Associate Professor of Psychology

> >

> > Director of Clinical Training

> >

> > Director, Mindfulness & Acceptance Research Program / Anxiety

> Disorders

> > Research Program

> >

> > University at Albany, SUNY

> >

> > Department of Psychology

> >

> > Social Science 369

> >

> > 1400 Washington Avenue

> >

> > Albany, NY 12222

> >

> >

> >

> > Ph:

> >

> > Fax:

> >

> > email: forsyth@

> >

> >

> >

> > Web

[Guest guest]

I like this one, as I was supposed to go to such a sushi restaurant for my birthday on Saturday night. But what do you do when some of the dishes reach out and choke you as they go by?BruceHow about a sushi bar where the dishes are on a conveyor? Watch the dishes go by and pick the ones that please you. Let the others go by without comment.BillTo: ACT_for_the_Public From: russharrisoptusnet.auDate: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 19:48:56 +1100Subject: RE: Can defusion ever become a habit?Hi Bill, As you’ve noted, there is some ACT imprecision here. The idea of “quality control” doesn’t really fit. Nor the bit about “throwing unuseful thoughts in the scrap bin”; this sounds suspiciously like experiential avoidance/ thought stopping etc. Not a good idea: throw them in the bin and they’re likely to bounce straight back out again.However, your analogy does work very well in one part: the idea of  letting thoughts come and go on an assembly line, and picking up the ones that are useful. No need to try throwing away the unhelpful ones; just let them come and go, come and go, come and go. And if they’re useful – in the sense that the information contained within those thoughts can help you to live by your values – then by all means pick them up; but even then, hold them lightly. Hi Russ,Those “What If” thoughts are particularly sticky for  most folks. The following metaphor could be helpful. Suppose you’re driving your car under really challenging traffic & weather conditions, where it’s imperative you keep your attention on the road. And suppose there’s a passenger beside you saying, “What if you crash the car?” “What if a truck comes around the corner, and smashes into you?” “What if your car engine explodes?” “What if a young kid suddenly rushes out in front of your car?”What happens to your driving if you start giving all your attention to your  passenger – yelling at him to shut up, or trying to convince him that those things won’t happen, or getting completely absorbed in what he is saying? What works in this situation is to let the passenger say whatever he wants, and keep your attention on your driving. Cheers, Russ Russ PO Box 5079Alphington, Vic 3058 www.thehappinesstrap.comwww.actmindfully.com.au From: ACT_for_the_Public [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of BILL CAMERONSent: Saturday, 20 December 2008 3:37 PMTo: ACT_for_the_PublicSubject: RE: Can defusion ever become a habit? Russ - I think the key is to develop your observing-self skills so you recognize the moment your mind takes off with a thought and to acknowledge that that is what is happening. My mind is constantly presenting random thoughts. The secret is to recognize them as just thoughts rather than add credence to them by looking from them or expanding them. The sooner you can catch this happening the quicker you can defuse from the thought. My breakthrough came from The Happiness Trap  by Russ where he says if a thought is not useful, don't buy into it. The trick is to not let your mind run with the thought as you try to decide if it's useful or not. Maybe it's like a manufacturing assembly line. Your mind is constantly manufacturing thoughts and your observant self serves as a quality control process, letting useful thoughts go by and throwing unuseful thoughts in the scrap bin. This analogy is wrought with ACT imprecision. Perhaps the group can hone it. There are many good exercises to help you develop your observant self. As mentioned in a couple of other posts this evening, approach this process with curiosity rather than being fearful. CURIOSITY is an extremely important attribute in the ACT journey. Try it instead of fear of what your mind might present. Marvel at the power of the mind rather than being afraid. After all, nearly all of the stuff your mind presents is just words and images. Very little of it is real. The words "WHAT IF" usually mark the line between looking at the thought and looking from the thought. Seems awfully rambling. I hope it's helpful. BillTo: ACT_for_the_Public From: russognDate: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 16:45:14 -0800Subject: RE: Can defusion ever become a habit?bill,   was wondering if you could give any other tips stopping at the look at step.  "It's a matter of stopping at the LOOK AT step before your mind takes you down a rat hole (THINKING FROM THE THOUGHT.) The thought may circle around several times to test your sorting skills."i get pulled down really hard by thoughts. often, i can have a panic attack, just by thinking about it. what if thinking becomes reality -russ--- On Thu, 12/18/08, BILL CAMERON <wcameromsn> wrote:From: BILL CAMERON <wcameromsn>Subject: RE: Can defusion ever become a habit?To: "ACT_for_the_Public" <act_for_the_public >Date: Thursday, December 18, 2008, 5:16 PMMy experience is that I can defuse almost instantly now that I have developed the skill. There is a moment of interpretation during which you decide if (LOOK AT) the thought is useful or not (and before thinking FROM the thought.) It's a matter of stopping at the LOOK AT step before your mind takes you down a rat hole (THINKING FROM THE THOUGHT.) The thought may circle around several times to test your sorting skills. You must do the values work for ACT to work and you must be committed to moving ahead with your hands and feet towards you values. Acceptance is an act of doing, not an act of thinking. I see a clear difference between mindfulness and observing self. Mindfulness is being in the present. Observing self is noticing what goes on while you are being mindful. These are integral parts of ACT and must be integrated into your life for you to achieve the full benefit. I know many people who try to meditate their way out of their funk, trying to duplicate the Eastern approach. Most of us Westerners are way to "busy" for that. To me ACT is a three-legged stool. leg one is acceptance/defusion . Leg two is observing self/mindfulness. Leg three is values/commitment to living a valued life. For the stool to be stable it must have three strong legs. ACT is not a buffet. It's a full course dinner that must be completed for satisfaction. I'm an engineer, not a trained ACT person. I've conveyed by understanding of ACT. My apologies to the experts. But workability is integral to ACT and I've achieved that. Your questions are thoughtful and indicate you are on the right track Hang in there,BillTo: ACT_for_the_ Public@yahoogrou ps.comFrom: pppboy21yahoo (DOT) comDate: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 14:41:32 +0000Subject: [ACT_for_the_ Public] Can defusion ever become a habit?Hi all, Am just wondering if anyone knows if defusion skills can become a habit if practised regularly? I've taken to practising them a lot more now as I was previously only doing so when I 'felt' like it...I'm determined to stick with it on a daily basis and am also aware that consistency = skill. I've a few other hurdles to get past such as building my willingness skills and values work but for now I'm going to focus mainly on defusion. Another quick question I'd like to hear others thoughts on is - is the mindfulness aspect (mainly the observing self bit) neccesary for the other ACT skills? The reason I ask is that after practising that type of mindfulness I found I was so aware of things more than usual that it became overwhelming (ie. there was a lot more I needed to be willing and defused for).  

[Guest guest]

The classic ACT response is probably - Recognize it as just a thought, thank your mind and move ahead towards a valued life with your hands and your feet. What are the choices? You can either buy into the thought (fuse) or label the thought as not helpful (defuse). I can tell which I chose by looking at my thoughts a few moments later. If I'm still thinking about how it grabbed me I'm headed down a rabbit hole. If I've moved ahead with hands and feet (or mouth as some concede) I'm "ok." If at a sushi bar am I enjoying the delicious meal and the people around me? or off in space thinking from the thought that got me?

Bill

To: ACT_for_the_Public From: onebnz@...Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 15:35:58 -0800Subject: Re: Can defusion ever become a habit?

I like this one, as I was supposed to go to such a sushi restaurant for my birthday on Saturday night.

But what do you do when some of the dishes reach out and choke you as they go by?

Bruce

How about a sushi bar where the dishes are on a conveyor? Watch the dishes go by and pick the ones that please you. Let the others go by without comment.Bill

To: ACT_for_the_Public From: russharrisoptusnet.auDate: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 19:48:56 +1100Subject: RE: Can defusion ever become a habit?

Hi Bill,

As you’ve noted, there is some ACT imprecision here. The idea of “quality control” doesn’t really fit. Nor the bit about “throwing unuseful thoughts in the scrap bin”; this sounds suspiciously like experiential avoidance/ thought stopping etc. Not a good idea: throw them in the bin and they’re likely to bounce straight back out again.

However, your analogy does work very well in one part: the idea of letting thoughts come and go on an assembly line, and picking up the ones that are useful. No need to try throwing away the unhelpful ones; just let them come and go, come and go, come and go. And if they’re useful – in the sense that the information contained within those thoughts can help you to live by your values – then by all means pick them up; but even then, hold them lightly.

Hi Russ,

Those “What If” thoughts are particularly sticky for most folks. The following metaphor could be helpful. Suppose you’re driving your car under really challenging traffic & weather conditions, where it’s imperative you keep your attention on the road. And suppose there’s a passenger beside you saying, “What if you crash the car?” “What if a truck comes around the corner, and smashes into you?” “What if your car engine explodes?” “What if a young kid suddenly rushes out in front of your car?”

What happens to your driving if you start giving all your attention to your passenger – yelling at him to shut up, or trying to convince him that those things won’t happen, or getting completely absorbed in what he is saying? What works in this situation is to let the passenger say whatever he wants, and keep your attention on your driving.

Cheers, Russ

Russ

PO Box 5079

Alphington, Vic 3058

www.thehappinesstrap.com

www.actmindfully.com.au

From: ACT_for_the_Public [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of BILL CAMERONSent: Saturday, 20 December 2008 3:37 PMTo: ACT_for_the_PublicSubject: RE: Can defusion ever become a habit?

Russ - I think the key is to develop your observing-self skills so you recognize the moment your mind takes off with a thought and to acknowledge that that is what is happening. My mind is constantly presenting random thoughts. The secret is to recognize them as just thoughts rather than add credence to them by looking from them or expanding them. The sooner you can catch this happening the quicker you can defuse from the thought. My breakthrough came from The Happiness Trap by Russ where he says if a thought is not useful, don't buy into it. The trick is to not let your mind run with the thought as you try to decide if it's useful or not. Maybe it's like a manufacturing assembly line. Your mind is constantly manufacturing thoughts and your observant self serves as a quality control process, letting useful thoughts go by and throwing unuseful thoughts in the scrap bin. This analogy is wrought with ACT imprecision. Perhaps the group can hone it. There are many good exercises to help you develop your observant self. As mentioned in a couple of other posts this evening, approach this process with curiosity rather than being fearful. CURIOSITY is an extremely important attribute in the ACT journey. Try it instead of fear of what your mind might present. Marvel at the power of the mind rather than being afraid. After all, nearly all of the stuff your mind presents is just words and images. Very little of it is real. The words "WHAT IF" usually mark the line between looking at the thought and looking from the thought. Seems awfully rambling. I hope it's helpful. Bill

To: ACT_for_the_Public From: russognDate: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 16:45:14 -0800Subject: RE: Can defusion ever become a habit?

bill, was wondering if you could give any other tips stopping at the look at step. "It's a matter of stopping at the LOOK AT step before your mind takes you down a rat hole (THINKING FROM THE THOUGHT.) The thought may circle around several times to test your sorting skills."i get pulled down really hard by thoughts. often, i can have a panic attack, just by thinking about it. what if thinking becomes reality -russ

From: BILL CAMERON <wcameromsn>Subject: RE: Can defusion ever become a habit?To: "ACT_for_the_Public" <act_for_the_public >Date: Thursday, December 18, 2008, 5:16 PM

My experience is that I can defuse almost instantly now that I have developed the skill. There is a moment of interpretation during which you decide if (LOOK AT) the thought is useful or not (and before thinking FROM the thought.) It's a matter of stopping at the LOOK AT step before your mind takes you down a rat hole (THINKING FROM THE THOUGHT.) The thought may circle around several times to test your sorting skills. You must do the values work for ACT to work and you must be committed to moving ahead with your hands and feet towards you values. Acceptance is an act of doing, not an act of thinking. I see a clear difference between mindfulness and observing self. Mindfulness is being in the present. Observing self is noticing what goes on while you are being mindful. These are integral parts of ACT and must be integrated into your life for you to achieve the full benefit. I know many people who try to meditate their way out of their funk, trying to duplicate the Eastern approach. Most of us Westerners are way to "busy" for that. To me ACT is a three-legged stool. leg one is acceptance/defusion . Leg two is observing self/mindfulness. Leg three is values/commitment to living a valued life. For the stool to be stable it must have three strong legs. ACT is not a buffet. It's a full course dinner that must be completed for satisfaction. I'm an engineer, not a trained ACT person. I've conveyed by understanding of ACT. My apologies to the experts. But workability is integral to ACT and I've achieved that. Your questions are thoughtful and indicate you are on the right track Hang in there,Bill

To: ACT_for_the_ Public@yahoogrou ps.comFrom: pppboy21yahoo (DOT) comDate: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 14:41:32 +0000Subject: [ACT_for_the_ Public] Can defusion ever become a habit?

Hi all, Am just wondering if anyone knows if defusion skills can become a habit if practised regularly? I've taken to practising them a lot more now as I was previously only doing so when I 'felt' like it...I'm determined to stick with it on a daily basis and am also aware that consistency = skill. I've a few other hurdles to get past such as building my willingness skills and values work but for now I'm going to focus mainly on defusion. Another quick question I'd like to hear others thoughts on is - is the mindfulness aspect (mainly the observing self bit) neccesary for the other ACT skills? The reason I ask is that after practising that type of mindfulness I found I was so aware of things more than usual that it became overwhelming (ie. there was a lot more I needed to be willing and defused for).

[Guest guest]

THis is very good.

My daughter and her husband came over a couple of days ago to show me their

brand new car, that they bought for half the price it was 4 years ago BTW, and

it was really cold here. I went out and got into the back seat. I was caught

in the thinking loop and wanted to go inside. But I did catch myself and

thought, do I want to sit here with them? That was my value. I was having a

bit of a bad night with my back and the cold was not helping so after staying

for a time I went back in. I spent less time than I wanted but I did get to

spend some time with them.

So, after I go in the house you can probably guess what happened. I beat up on

myself for not staying in the freezing cold looking at the engine of her car. I

followed my values as long as I could then went in. I did my best to think

about them and not getting caught in the thinking loop. But I still wanted to

be able to not have the cold bother me.

How do I explain this, I beat up on myself when I can't do something rather

than just knowing I did the best I could. When things don't go my way, I feel

like I did something to cause it. That is where my non acceptance comes in. I

blame myself for everything. Things just happen but I try to take on the world

and change everything. I know that I am an extremely creative person and I

think that has something to do with it. It is hard to wrap my head around

letting things happen naturally because I have ways I want it to go. And am

able to do that in many things with creativity, but that is not effective here.

I once said that if I was god I would let it snow on all the lawns here in

Denver and not have it snow on the roads so the roads would not be dangerous.

The person I said that to, just looked at me incredulously. But really that is

how my mind works.

I do want to say though, I watched all this in my head while it was happening.

What a break through to see it and recognize it.

Robyn

--------- [ACT_for_the_ Public] Can defusion ever become a habit?

Hi all, Am just wondering if anyone knows if defusion skills can become a habit if practised regularly? I've taken to practising them a lot more now as I was previously only doing so when I 'felt' like it...I'm determined to stick with it on a daily basis and am also aware that consistency = skill. I've a few other hurdles to get past such as building my willingness skills and values work but for now I'm going to focus mainly on defusion. Another quick question I'd like to hear others thoughts on is - is the mindfulness aspect (mainly the observing self bit) neccesary for the other ACT skills? The reason I ask is that after practising that type of mindfulness I found I was so aware of things more than usual that it became overwhelming (ie. there was a lot more I needed to be willing and defused for).

[Guest guest]

Ha, this is another point I often get stuck on, so I'm glad someone

else is acknowledging it

Very often I have done ACT with a sense of urgency and determination

but quite often that attitude is exactly what isn't needed. Then

again sometimes I'll get lazy and not put much effort into practise.

What a juggling act!

>

Just do that practice with a sense of lightness and

> curiosity. I say that because it is easy to slide into using ACT

with a

> sense of urgency - the same kind of urgency we may apply to our pain

> using old tactics and skills. It is, as if, something must be done

now,

> when in fact, there may be nothing to do apart from being right

where

> you are, just as you are, and choosing what you want to do.

>

>

>

> Peace -j

>

>

[Guest guest]

I totally agree. I want the pain, in my case anxiety and non-specific fear to stop. I'm talking with a therapist and he says to me "you want ACT to cure you, don't you?" and I have to admit he's right. I don't want to just accept how awful I feel. I want to feel different. And he says "that's just where you are right now".I was just shopping downtown in our small town, holding my daughter's hand and finding some really perfect gifts for her mom. We have snow here, which rarely happens. And I was thinking, in years past, I would have found this warm and delightful. And a few shots of liquor would have made it even better. Now I no longer drink and more than half my mind, actually my gut mostly, is just full of fear. But I did get the job done.I wonder how far off I am from "normal" people who also have dysfunctional fears. I'm told everybody has them. I guess I fall under Weekes definition of "anxiety that interferes with normal activities". I can do what I have to do pretty well. But not anything beyond that and every day I wake up with the lump in the gut that doesn't go away.I guess I'm still a ways away from getting it.Thanks,BruceHa, this is another point I often get stuck on, so I'm glad someone else is acknowledging it  Very often I have done ACT with a sense of urgency and determination but quite often that attitude is exactly what isn't needed. Then again sometimes I'll get lazy and not put much effort into practise. What a juggling act! >Just do that practice with a sense of lightness and> curiosity. I say that because it is easy to slide into using ACT with a> sense of urgency - the same kind of urgency we may apply to our pain> using old tactics and skills. It is, as if, something must be done now,> when in fact, there may be nothing to do apart from being right where> you are, just as you are, and choosing what you want to do.> > > > Peace -j> > 

[Guest guest]

Bruce - I think you are very close to getting it. You may be on the verge of a breakthrough. Hang in there and be curious, gentle with your self, and patient. Keep going back to the exercises and invoke them when your observing self sees an opportunity.

I'm in a bit of a slump myself right now and am reminding myself that I must get back to the basics. It's tempting to try to think my way out of the slump but that just makes it worse.

Bill

To: ACT_for_the_Public From: onebnz@...Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 16:39:57 -0800Subject: Re: Re: Can defusion ever become a habit?

I totally agree. I want the pain, in my case anxiety and non-specific fear to stop.

I'm talking with a therapist and he says to me "you want ACT to cure you, don't you?" and I have to admit he's right. I don't want to just accept how awful I feel. I want to feel different. And he says "that's just where you are right now".

I was just shopping downtown in our small town, holding my daughter's hand and finding some really perfect gifts for her mom. We have snow here, which rarely happens. And I was thinking, in years past, I would have found this warm and delightful. And a few shots of liquor would have made it even better. Now I no longer drink and more than half my mind, actually my gut mostly, is just full of fear. But I did get the job done.

I wonder how far off I am from "normal" people who also have dysfunctional fears. I'm told everybody has them. I guess I fall under Weekes definition of "anxiety that interferes with normal activities". I can do what I have to do pretty well. But not anything beyond that and every day I wake up with the lump in the gut that doesn't go away.

I guess I'm still a ways away from getting it.

Thanks,

Bruce

Ha, this is another point I often get stuck on, so I'm glad someone else is acknowledging it Very often I have done ACT with a sense of urgency and determination but quite often that attitude is exactly what isn't needed. Then again sometimes I'll get lazy and not put much effort into practise. What a juggling act! >Just do that practice with a sense of lightness and> curiosity. I say that because it is easy to slide into using ACT with a> sense of urgency - the same kind of urgency we may apply to our pain> using old tactics and skills. It is, as if, something must be done now,> when in fact, there may be nothing to do apart from being right where> you are, just as you are, and choosing what you want to do.> > > > Peace -j> >

[Guest guest]

Bill, thank you very much for your message. I appreciate it.May I ask why you think I'm on the verge of getting it? I feel so far away.Thanks a lot,BruceBruce - I think you are very close to getting it. You may be on the verge of a breakthrough. Hang in there and be curious, gentle with your self, and patient. Keep going back to the exercises and invoke them when your observing self sees an opportunity. I'm in a bit of a slump myself right now and am reminding myself that I must get back to the basics. It's tempting to try to think my way out of the slump but that just makes it worse. BillTo: ACT_for_the_Public From: onebnzcomcast (DOT) netDate: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 16:39:57 -0800Subject: Re: Re: Can defusion ever become a habit?I totally agree. I want the pain, in my case anxiety and non-specific fear to stop. I'm talking with a therapist and he says to me "you want ACT to cure you, don't you?" and I have to admit he's right. I don't want to just accept how awful I feel. I want to feel different. And he says "that's just where you are right now".I was just shopping downtown in our small town, holding my daughter's hand and finding some really perfect gifts for her mom. We have snow here, which rarely happens. And I was thinking, in years past, I would have found this warm and delightful. And a few shots of liquor would have made it even better. Now I no longer drink and more than half my mind, actually my gut mostly, is just full of fear. But I did get the job done.I wonder how far off I am from "normal" people who also have dysfunctional fears. I'm told everybody has them. I guess I fall under Weekes definition of "anxiety that interferes with normal activities". I can do what I have to do pretty well. But not anything beyond that and every day I wake up with the lump in the gut that doesn't go away.I guess I'm still a ways away from getting it.Thanks,BruceHa, this is another point I often get stuck on, so I'm glad someone else is acknowledging it  Very often I have done ACT with a sense of urgency and determination but quite often that attitude is exactly what isn't needed. Then again sometimes I'll get lazy and not put much effort into practise. What a juggling act! >Just do that practice with a sense of lightness and> curiosity. I say that because it is easy to slide into using ACT with a> sense of urgency - the same kind of urgency we may apply to our pain> using old tactics and skills. It is, as if, something must be done now,> when in fact, there may be nothing to do apart from being right where> you are, just as you are, and choosing what you want to do.> > > > Peace -j> > 

[Guest guest]

Bruce, I know you didn't ask me your question, but I would like to share what I have observed about you. First, Dr. Phil frequently says that "you can't change what you don't acknowledge." By consciously acknowledging and stating "I don't want to just accept how awful I feel. I want to feel different," you are showing that you understand the shift that needs to occur before ACT will "work" for you--a shift towards acceptance instead of resistance. It may not occur as a "Eureka!" moment, so be patient with yourself. You may feel so far away, but remember -- the goal is progress, not perfection.

Best,

Helena

Re: Re: Can defusion ever become a habit?I totally agree. I want the pain, in my case anxiety and non-specific fear to stop. I'm talking with a therapist and he says to me "you want ACT to cure you, don't you?" and I have to admit he's right. I don't want to just accept how awful I feel. I want to feel different. And he says "that's just where you are right now".I was just shopping downtown in our small town, holding my daughter's hand and finding some really perfect gifts for her mom. We have snow here, which rarely happens. And I was thinking, in years past, I would have found this warm and delightful. And a few shots of liquor would have made it even better. Now I no longer drink and more than half my mind, actually my gut mostly, is just full of fear. But I did get the job done.I wonder how far off I am from "normal" people who also have dysfunctional fears. I'm told everybody has them. I guess I fall under Weekes definition of "anxiety that interferes with normal activities". I can do what I have to do pretty well. But not anything beyond that and every day I wake up with the lump in the gut that doesn't go away.I guess I'm still a ways away from getting it.Thanks,BruceHa, this is another point I often get stuck on, so I'm glad someone else is acknowledging it Very often I have done ACT with a sense of urgency and determination but quite often that attitude is exactly what isn't needed. Then again sometimes I'll get lazy and not put much effort into practise. What a juggling act! >Just do that practice with a sense of lightness and> curiosity. I say that because it is easy to slide into using ACT with a> sense of urgency - the same kind of urgency we may apply to our pain> using old tactics and skills. It is, as if, something must be done now,> when in fact, there may be nothing to do apart from being right where> you are, just as you are, and choosing what you want to do.> > > > Peace -j> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Bruce - Helena said it nicely in her post. You seem to have a good grasp of ACT principles and seem willing to entertain the possibility that they will work. You recognize when you have had a small success. Russ's post about fear has all the ingredients on how to deal with fear. If you have his book The Happiness Trap, keep it close at hand and use it as a reference. I assume you have already studied it carefully and practiced the exercises. Have a look at the chapters at the very end of the book about how to use ACT in the clinch. My instinct is to try to think my way out of the low spots. That seldom works. Hang in there.

Bill

To: ACT_for_the_Public From: onebnz@...Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 17:11:19 -0800Subject: Re: Re: Can defusion ever become a habit?

Bill, thank you very much for your message. I appreciate it.

May I ask why you think I'm on the verge of getting it? I feel so far away.

Thanks a lot,

Bruce

Bruce - I think you are very close to getting it. You may be on the verge of a breakthrough. Hang in there and be curious, gentle with your self, and patient. Keep going back to the exercises and invoke them when your observing self sees an opportunity. I'm in a bit of a slump myself right now and am reminding myself that I must get back to the basics. It's tempting to try to think my way out of the slump but that just makes it worse. Bill

To: ACT_for_the_Public From: onebnzcomcast (DOT) netDate: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 16:39:57 -0800Subject: Re: Re: Can defusion ever become a habit?

I totally agree. I want the pain, in my case anxiety and non-specific fear to stop.

I'm talking with a therapist and he says to me "you want ACT to cure you, don't you?" and I have to admit he's right. I don't want to just accept how awful I feel. I want to feel different. And he says "that's just where you are right now".

I was just shopping downtown in our small town, holding my daughter's hand and finding some really perfect gifts for her mom. We have snow here, which rarely happens. And I was thinking, in years past, I would have found this warm and delightful. And a few shots of liquor would have made it even better. Now I no longer drink and more than half my mind, actually my gut mostly, is just full of fear. But I did get the job done.

I wonder how far off I am from "normal" people who also have dysfunctional fears. I'm told everybody has them. I guess I fall under Weekes definition of "anxiety that interferes with normal activities". I can do what I have to do pretty well. But not anything beyond that and every day I wake up with the lump in the gut that doesn't go away.

I guess I'm still a ways away from getting it.

Thanks,

Bruce

Ha, this is another point I often get stuck on, so I'm glad someone else is acknowledging it Very often I have done ACT with a sense of urgency and determination but quite often that attitude is exactly what isn't needed. Then again sometimes I'll get lazy and not put much effort into practise. What a juggling act! >Just do that practice with a sense of lightness and> curiosity. I say that because it is easy to slide into using ACT with a> sense of urgency - the same kind of urgency we may apply to our pain> using old tactics and skills. It is, as if, something must be done now,> when in fact, there may be nothing to do apart from being right where> you are, just as you are, and choosing what you want to do.> > > > Peace -j> >

[Guest guest]

You know I REALLY love what you said about channeling anxiety. Accept and

channel the rest. That gives my mind something to do during anxiety. It wants

to 'work' it's way out of this. Channeling that extra energy would be helpful

but it won't completely do it and accepting the rest seems like a really good

way to go.

All this talk about Bruce 'getting it " makes me wonder what you mean by that.

I wonder when I am going to 'get it'.

Robyn

--------- Re: Re: Can defusion ever

> become a habit?

>

>

> I totally agree. I want the pain, in my case anxiety and non-specific fear to

> stop.

>

> I'm talking with a therapist and he says to me " you want ACT to cure you,

don't

> you? " and I have to admit he's right. I don't want to just accept how awful I

> feel. I want to feel different. And he says " that's just where you are right

> now " .

>

> I was just shopping downtown in our small town, holding my daughter's hand and

> finding some really perfect gifts for her mom. We have snow here, which rarely

> happens. And I was thinking, in years past, I would have found this warm and

> delightful. And a few shots of liquor would have made it even better. Now I no

> longer drink and more than half my mind, actually my gut mostly, is just full

of

> fear. But I did get the job done.

>

> I wonder how far off I am from " normal " people who also have dysfunctional

> fears. I'm told everybody has them. I guess I fall under Weekes

> definition of " anxiety that interferes with normal activities " . I can do what

I

> have to do pretty well. But not anything beyond that and every day I wake up

> with the lump in the gut that doesn't go away.

>

> I guess I'm still a ways away from getting it.

>

> Thanks,

> Bruce

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Ha, this is another point I often get stuck on, so I'm glad someone else is

> acknowledging it Very often I have done ACT with a sense of urgency and

> determination but quite often that attitude is exactly what isn't needed. Then

> again sometimes I'll get lazy and not put much effort into practise. What a

> juggling act! >Just do that practice with a sense of lightness and> curiosity. I say that because it is easy to slide into using ACT with a> sense of urgency - the same kind of urgency we may apply to our pain> using old tactics and skills. It is, as if, something must be done now,> when in fact, there may be nothing to do apart from being right where> you are, just as you are, and choosing what you want to do.> > > > Peace -j> >

[Guest guest]

Dear Bill, Helena and Russ:Thank you very much for your encouraging words. I really appreciate it!BruceHi Bruce - Helena said it nicely in her post. You seem to have a good grasp of ACT principles and seem willing to entertain the possibility that they will work. You recognize when you have had a small success. Russ's post about fear has all the ingredients on how to deal with fear. If you have his book The Happiness Trap, keep it close at hand and use it as a reference. I assume you have already studied it carefully and practiced the exercises. Have a look at the chapters at the very end of the book about how to use ACT in the clinch. My instinct is to try to think my way out of the low spots. That seldom works. Hang in there. BillTo: ACT_for_the_Public From: onebnzcomcast (DOT) netDate: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 17:11:19 -0800Subject: Re: Re: Can defusion ever become a habit?Bill, thank you very much for your message. I appreciate it.May I ask why you think I'm on the verge of getting it? I feel so far away.Thanks a lot,BruceBruce - I think you are very close to getting it. You may be on the verge of a breakthrough. Hang in there and be curious, gentle with your self, and patient. Keep going back to the exercises and invoke them when your observing self sees an opportunity. I'm in a bit of a slump myself right now and am reminding myself that I must get back to the basics. It's tempting to try to think my way out of the slump but that just makes it worse. BillTo: ACT_for_the_Public From: onebnzcomcast (DOT) netDate: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 16:39:57 -0800Subject: Re: Re: Can defusion ever become a habit?I totally agree. I want the pain, in my case anxiety and non-specific fear to stop. I'm talking with a therapist and he says to me "you want ACT to cure you, don't you?" and I have to admit he's right. I don't want to just accept how awful I feel. I want to feel different. And he says "that's just where you are right now".I was just shopping downtown in our small town, holding my daughter's hand and finding some really perfect gifts for her mom. We have snow here, which rarely happens. And I was thinking, in years past, I would have found this warm and delightful. And a few shots of liquor would have made it even better. Now I no longer drink and more than half my mind, actually my gut mostly, is just full of fear. But I did get the job done.I wonder how far off I am from "normal" people who also have dysfunctional fears. I'm told everybody has them. I guess I fall under Weekes definition of "anxiety that interferes with normal activities". I can do what I have to do pretty well. But not anything beyond that and every day I wake up with the lump in the gut that doesn't go away.I guess I'm still a ways away from getting it.Thanks,BruceHa, this is another point I often get stuck on, so I'm glad someone else is acknowledging it  Very often I have done ACT with a sense of urgency and determination but quite often that attitude is exactly what isn't needed. Then again sometimes I'll get lazy and not put much effort into practise. What a juggling act! >Just do that practice with a sense of lightness and> curiosity. I say that because it is easy to slide into using ACT with a> sense of urgency - the same kind of urgency we may apply to our pain> using old tactics and skills. It is, as if, something must be done now,> when in fact, there may be nothing to do apart from being right where> you are, just as you are, and choosing what you want to do.> > > > Peace -j> > 

[Guest guest]

Hi Robyn - By "getting it" I mean getting something useful, no matter how small, from ACT and being able to build on the experience. For me it's been more of an "Oh" experience than an Ahaaa experience. But a string of a few Ohs feels good.

Bill

To: ACT_for_the_Public From: robynabc@...Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 16:19:12 +0000Subject: RE: Re: Can defusion ever become a habit?

You know I REALLY love what you said about channeling anxiety. Accept and channel the rest. That gives my mind something to do during anxiety. It wants to 'work' it's way out of this. Channeling that extra energy would be helpful but it won't completely do it and accepting the rest seems like a really good way to go. All this talk about Bruce 'getting it" makes me wonder what you mean by that. I wonder when I am going to 'get it'. Robyn --------- Re: Re: Can defusion ever > become a habit?> > > I totally agree. I want the pain, in my case anxiety and non-specific fear to > stop. > > I'm talking with a therapist and he says to me "you want ACT to cure you, don't > you?" and I have to admit he's right. I don't want to just accept how awful I > feel. I want to feel different. And he says "that's just where you are right > now".> > I was just shopping downtown in our small town, holding my daughter's hand and > finding some really perfect gifts for her mom. We have snow here, which rarely > happens. And I was thinking, in years past, I would have found this warm and > delightful. And a few shots of liquor would have made it even better. Now I no > longer drink and more than half my mind, actually my gut mostly, is just full of > fear. But I did get the job done.> > I wonder how far off I am from "normal" people who also have dysfunctional > fears. I'm told everybody has them. I guess I fall under Weekes > definition of "anxiety that interferes with normal activities". I can do what I > have to do pretty well. But not anything beyond that and every day I wake up > with the lump in the gut that doesn't go away.> > I guess I'm still a ways away from getting it.> > Thanks,> Bruce> > > > > > > > > > Ha, this is another point I often get stuck on, so I'm glad someone else is > acknowledging it Very often I have done ACT with a sense of urgency and > determination but quite often that attitude is exactly what isn't needed. Then > again sometimes I'll get lazy and not put much effort into practise. What a > juggling act! >Just do that practice with a sense of lightness and> curiosity. I say that because it is easy to slide into using ACT with a> sense of urgency - the same kind of urgency we may apply to our pain> using old tactics and skills. It is, as if, something must be done now,> when in fact, there may be nothing to do apart from being right where> you are, just as you are, and choosing what you want to do.> > > > Peace -j> >