Getting Help

November 22, 2008

Hello, this is my first post and I really need some help and suggestions.

I have read GOOYMAIYF and I have done many of the exercises too but

eventually I seem to have given up. This seems to happen often with me

with self-help books (of which I have many). I have tried 'The Mindful

Way Through Depression' too, and again after a while I stopped reading

and practicing.

I have been to therapists before but not for ACT/Mindfulness type

therapies. It seems that I have picked up a few tips about how to

improve my life for an awful lot of money, on the other hand I don't

think can turn things around without someone's help.

I have combination of depression, ADD and apparently a complete lack

of self-discipline. To start working on ACT again I need to be feeling

pretty bad. I have noticed too that fear is my major motivation. For

example I have been taking classes to learn new job skills as I need

the test deadlines and the fear of failure to motivate me to study.

Any ideas?

November 22, 2008

Welcome to the group! I recommend you try The Happiness Trap by Russ . It is a good followup to GOOYMAIYL. Since you've been through one book it might be good to think about where you are stuck. I've met many people who thought they could meditate their way out of their situation when they really needed to do the values work or committed action.

Keep us posted on how you are doing.

Bill

To: ACT_for_the_Public From: anglofeel@...Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 00:19:50 +0000Subject: Getting Help

Hello, this is my first post and I really need some help and suggestions.I have read GOOYMAIYF and I have done many of the exercises too buteventually I seem to have given up. This seems to happen often with mewith self-help books (of which I have many). I have tried 'The MindfulWay Through Depression' too, and again after a while I stopped readingand practicing. I have been to therapists before but not for ACT/Mindfulness typetherapies. It seems that I have picked up a few tips about how toimprove my life for an awful lot of money, on the other hand I don'tthink can turn things around without someone's help. I have combination of depression, ADD and apparently a complete lackof self-discipline. To start working on ACT again I need to be feelingpretty bad. I have noticed too that fear is my major motivation. Forexample I have been taking classes to learn new job skills as I needthe test deadlines and the fear of failure to motivate me to study.Any ideas?

November 23, 2008

I know what you mean... self help books are wonderful, but sometimes

only get you so far. A therapist to help guide you is great too, but

can be expensive for one-on-one sessions.

ACT Boot Camp or a class or group meetings, would be fantastic to

help motivate and support us acting on our goals and values, and

perhaps fun from a social perspective.... i wonder if there are any

out there?

> >

> > Welcome to the group! I recommend you try The Happiness Trap by

Russ

> . It is a good followup to GOOYMAIYL. Since you've been

through

> one book it might be good to think about where you are stuck. I've

met

> many people who thought they could meditate their way out of their

> situation when they really needed to do the values work or

committed

> action.

> > Keep us posted on how you are doing.

> >

> > Bill

> >

> > To: ACT_for_the_Public@: anglofeel@: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 00:19:50

> +0000Subject: Getting Help

> >

> > Hello, this is my first post and I really need some help and

> suggestions.I have read GOOYMAIYF and I have done many of the

> exercises too buteventually I seem to have given up. This seems to

> happen often with mewith self-help books (of which I have many). I

> have tried 'The MindfulWay Through Depression' too, and again

after a

> while I stopped readingand practicing. I have been to therapists

> before but not for ACT/Mindfulness typetherapies. It seems that I

have

> picked up a few tips about how toimprove my life for an awful lot

of

> money, on the other hand I don'tthink can turn things around

without

> someone's help. I have combination of depression, ADD and

apparently a

> complete lackof self-discipline. To start working on ACT again I

need

> to be feelingpretty bad. I have noticed too that fear is my major

> motivation. Forexample I have been taking classes to learn new job

> skills as I needthe test deadlines and the fear of failure to

motivate

> me to study.Any ideas?

> >

>

November 23, 2008

If you know that regular work will form new habits you will do the work when you get really tired of your present state. Be sure to do the values work so your life will make more sense - the voice of experience. The interesting thing about ACT for me is that I stumbled around for quite a while and then had an ah ha experience when it began to work. I distinctly remember when I had my first successful acceptance experience. The rush from it was a good ride. Of course the next time wasn't nearly as good as I expected. Now the lows are not nearly as long or as low and the highs are not quite so high but are longer. I now have the confidence that I can accept/defuse/be mindful/take committed action towards a valued life if I keep my observing-self alert. One of my favorite adages is COOL HEADS WILL PREVAIL. This applies to ACT. When the boogey man comes along don't panic. Stay cool and he'll move on! Panic and he'll stay forever with a big smile on hsi face.

Russ has a 14 week weekly email to go along with The Happiness Trap. You can find it at his website. The ACT site has a link to find out if there is therapist in your area. A good therapist might be able to help you in just a few sessions and then be there for you if you get stuck.

I hope "ACT for Dummies" will help.

Bill

To: ACT_for_the_Public From: anglofeel@...Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 22:23:39 +0000Subject: Re: Getting Help

Bill, thank for the suggestion. The Happiness Trap sounds likeGOOYMAIYL for Dummies, which I need because GOOYMAIYL is not easy reading.I agree that I need to do the values work or take committed action.But how do I motivate myself to do this work regularly until itbecomes a habit? I feel like I need 'ACT Boot Camp' or a therapist who will somehowmake me work. A class I could attend might help, is there anything outthere like this?>> > Welcome to the group! I recommend you try The Happiness Trap by Russ. It is a good followup to GOOYMAIYL. Since you've been throughone book it might be good to think about where you are stuck. I've metmany people who thought they could meditate their way out of theirsituation when they really needed to do the values work or committedaction. > Keep us posted on how you are doing.> > Bill> > > > To: ACT_for_the_Public@...: anglofeel@...: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 00:19:50+0000Subject: Getting Help> > > > Hello, this is my first post and I really need some help andsuggestions.I have read GOOYMAIYF and I have done many of theexercises too buteventually I seem to have given up. This seems tohappen often with mewith self-help books (of which I have many). Ihave tried 'The MindfulWay Through Depression' too, and again after awhile I stopped readingand practicing. I have been to therapistsbefore but not for ACT/Mindfulness typetherapies. It seems that I havepicked up a few tips about how toimprove my life for an awful lot ofmoney, on the other hand I don'tthink can turn things around withoutsomeone's help. I have combination of depression, ADD and apparently acomplete lackof self-discipline. To start working on ACT again I needto be feelingpretty bad. I have noticed too that fear is my majormotivation. Forexample I have been taking classes to learn new jobskills as I needthe test deadlines and the fear of failure to motivateme to study.Any ideas?>

November 23, 2008

Try going to GOOYM & IYL chapters on Values, and maybe committment (the last few

chapters) then looping back to earlier chapters. Sometimes, I just feel like

throwing in towels too. Then I think it's possible I have lost track of

something of vital importance too me...more important than feeling better right

now. And I watch myself doing what I don't feel like doing, not because it feels

better, but because it lives more. I revise and revise those values statements

in that section as I live more. But by a rule: to say " yes " to life, not " no " to

pain.Today I remembered to say yes to " caring for my health " (a value) and

" appreciating my loved ones " (a value). I made a silly list; and watched myself

do it.

I give up; then I don't.

Tami

November 24, 2008

Try and find a good low cost therapist in your area. I wouldn't be too

worried about trying to find a specific type of therapist like an ACT

practitioner. I have often found that lower cost therapists are more

willing to help people based on what the client wants then on

following a certain format. A good therapist might be perfectly

willing to help you stick to an ACT program even if they aren't an ACT

practitioner. Just be straightforward and hold out until you get what

you want. You might want to try group therapy too. The support of a

group can be a valuable thing. It might even be a good fear inducer

that you don't want to show up for group and seem like you didn't do

anything all week. Lastly I don't know what the general group attitude

toward these things are, but if you have diagnosed ADD and aren't on a

medication you might see your doctor and try one.

>

> Hello, this is my first post and I really need some help and

suggestions.

>

> I have read GOOYMAIYF and I have done many of the exercises too but

> eventually I seem to have given up. This seems to happen often with me

> with self-help books (of which I have many). I have tried 'The Mindful

> Way Through Depression' too, and again after a while I stopped reading

> and practicing.

>

> I have been to therapists before but not for ACT/Mindfulness type

> therapies. It seems that I have picked up a few tips about how to

> improve my life for an awful lot of money, on the other hand I don't

> think can turn things around without someone's help.

>

> I have combination of depression, ADD and apparently a complete lack

> of self-discipline. To start working on ACT again I need to be feeling

> pretty bad. I have noticed too that fear is my major motivation. For

> example I have been taking classes to learn new job skills as I need

> the test deadlines and the fear of failure to motivate me to study.

>

> Any ideas?

>

November 25, 2008

I hope the professionals weigh in on using a non-ACT therapists as an acceptable substitute. It seems to me that it would take a very astute non-ACT therapist to avoid teaching you the very things that cause us problems. The first section of every ACT book I've read is about why other types of therapy might not be working. On the other hand if you find something that truly works it passes the test - workability.

Bill

Re: Getting Help

Try and find a good low cost therapist in your area. I wouldn't be tooworried about trying to find a specific type of therapist like an ACTpractitioner. I have often found that lower cost therapists are morewilling to help people based on what the client wants then onfollowing a certain format. A good therapist might be perfectlywilling to help you stick to an ACT program even if they aren't an ACTpractitioner. Just be straightforward and hold out until you get whatyou want. You might want to try group therapy too. The support of agroup can be a valuable thing. It might even be a good fear inducerthat you don't want to show up for group and seem like you didn't doanything all week. Lastly I don't know what the general group attitudetoward these things are, but if you have diagnosed ADD and aren't on amedication you might see your doctor and try one.>> Hello, this is my first post and I really need some help andsuggestions.> > I have read GOOYMAIYF and I have done many of the exercises too but> eventually I seem to have given up. This seems to happen often with me> with self-help books (of which I have many). I have tried 'The Mindful> Way Through Depression' too, and again after a while I stopped reading> and practicing. > > I have been to therapists before but not for ACT/Mindfulness type> therapies. It seems that I have picked up a few tips about how to> improve my life for an awful lot of money, on the other hand I don't> think can turn things around without someone's help. > > I have combination of depression, ADD and apparently a complete lack> of self-discipline. To start working on ACT again I need to be feeling> pretty bad. I have noticed too that fear is my major motivation. For> example I have been taking classes to learn new job skills as I need> the test deadlines and the fear of failure to motivate me to study.> > Any ideas?>

November 25, 2008

Research has shown that it is not so important what therapy you do,

as long as someone listens to you and takes an interest. This is in

fact love - something we all crave. Where we become affirmed of

having value.

ACT is the most powerful technique I have used but sometimes I have

to fall back on CBT. But usually not for long. The other day I used

thought stoppage and it helped very powerfully for a short while.

When the crisis was over I went back to ACT. If I had not done this

my ego would have torn me to pieces. After a night of dancing I had

never come so face to face with the fact that I was unloveable -

no one was interested in me.

Actually, I might have been using ACT because I was defusing - I was

letting the thoughts drift away. I should ask on this site the

difference between thought stoppage and defusion. Anyhow,

I could have gone into rumination, but I refused (Free will), and so

I managed to get a good night's sleep. But the next day I got a

hiding.

My temptation was to look at myself and know the truth, but the truth

would have killed me. Anyway, there is no such thing as the truth,

everything is subjective. I resisted the temptation.

I'm now back into ACT although I don't think I'm as expert as most of

you.

Kavy

> >

> > Hello, this is my first post and I really need some help and

> suggestions.

> >

> > I have read GOOYMAIYF and I have done many of the exercises too

but

> > eventually I seem to have given up. This seems to happen often

with me

> > with self-help books (of which I have many). I have tried 'The

Mindful

> > Way Through Depression' too, and again after a while I stopped

reading

> > and practicing.

> >

> > I have been to therapists before but not for ACT/Mindfulness

type

> > therapies. It seems that I have picked up a few tips about how

to

> > improve my life for an awful lot of money, on the other hand I

don't

> > think can turn things around without someone's help.

> >

> > I have combination of depression, ADD and apparently a complete

lack

> > of self-discipline. To start working on ACT again I need to be

feeling

> > pretty bad. I have noticed too that fear is my major

motivation. For

> > example I have been taking classes to learn new job skills as I

need

> > the test deadlines and the fear of failure to motivate me to

study.

> >

> > Any ideas?

> >

>

November 26, 2008

" Research has shown that it is not so important what therapy you do,

as long as someone listens to you and takes an interest. This is in

fact love - something we all crave. Where we become affirmed of

having value " .

Hi Kavy,

That is very interesting. Where did you read that? Thanks, Joe.

November 26, 2008

Well here is a quote from the head honcho himself(GOOYMAIYL, Ch.1)

" If you have a significant area of difficulty, and you haven't

undergone a well-planned course of therapy with a behavioral

therapist, cognitive-behavioral therapist, or other professional who

used methods supported by scientific research, you should seek that

out. In that instance, this book can be used as an adjunct to a course

of therapy with a therapist who understands this approach. "

> >

> > Hello, this is my first post and I really need some help and

> suggestions.

> >

> > I have read GOOYMAIYF and I have done many of the exercises too but

> > eventually I seem to have given up. This seems to happen often

with me

> > with self-help books (of which I have many). I have tried 'The

Mindful

> > Way Through Depression' too, and again after a while I stopped

reading

> > and practicing.

> >

> > I have been to therapists before but not for ACT/Mindfulness type

> > therapies. It seems that I have picked up a few tips about how to

> > improve my life for an awful lot of money, on the other hand I don't

> > think can turn things around without someone's help.

> >

> > I have combination of depression, ADD and apparently a complete lack

> > of self-discipline. To start working on ACT again I need to be

feeling

> > pretty bad. I have noticed too that fear is my major motivation. For

> > example I have been taking classes to learn new job skills as I need

> > the test deadlines and the fear of failure to motivate me to study.

> >

> > Any ideas?

> >

>

November 26, 2008

Hi Joe,

I think I might have come across in a radio documentry a fair number of

years ago. Scientists had researched three different types of therapy

and all of them were effective. They believed it was the attention and

being valued that helped the client rather than the therapy itself.

This doesn't mean to say that some therapies weren't more effective

than others, but CBT was only marginally better than the rest.

More modern forms of therapy might give different results. Mindfulness

based CBT (MBCBT) addresses the big problem of CBT which was relapse.

Without the therapist there reassuring you, the hard work would come

undone. The type of MBCBT set out by Mark is very similar to

ACT in that it becomes a way of life. That's the power of these

therapies.

Kavy

>

> " Research has shown that it is not so important what therapy you do,

> as long as someone listens to you and takes an interest. This is in

> fact love - something we all crave. Where we become affirmed of

> having value " .

>

> Hi Kavy,

> That is very interesting. Where did you read that? Thanks,

Joe.

>

November 26, 2008

The effect folks are talking about is that the therapeutic alliance(a combination of a warm supportive relationship and perhaps moreimportantly in terms of outcome, agreement about a plan of action)takes the lion's share of outcome.

All therapies contain that part and there is an argument about whether methods still matter after you deal statistically withthat part. I think the better evidence is that they do.An example that is easy to explain are book studies. We have two randomized studies now showing that

Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life along produces good outcomes for those whoread it and work thru it; and we know it works because of changes in acceptance,defusion, mindfulness, and values. That cannot be a " therapeutic relationship " effect.

[We are starting now to do book studies with different books and if we still get differenceswe will soon be able to answer in no uncertain terms whether methods matter using a procedure that almost anyone will agree

cannot be explained by the therapeutic relationship]In additionWe know in ACT that outcome studies that the therapeutic alliance predicts outcome.However, if you factor in changes in acceptance,

defusion, mindfulness, and values it no longer predict outcomes.Why? This cannot mean (in my view) that the therapeutic relationshipdoes not matter since that can't explain why therapeutic alliance predicts outcome

in the first place. It seems most likely to mean this: the therapeutic alliance matters, because good relationships promote acceptance,

defusion, mindfulness, and values. Here is another way to say this:If the ACT model is right, it is applicable not just to ACT but to life.It applies to therapists, it applies to home life, it applies to kids, it applies

to relationships ... any it applies to the therapeutic relationshic -- whether or notyou are " doing ACT. " [Notice I said " if " -- I'm not being a megalomaniac here].Techniques and methods can do that do too.

I think if you consider when relationship work in your life you can see that this idea is notlooney -- especially if you have done enough ACT work to understand the modelat a gut level. When are relationships empowering? Are they when you feel accepted for who your are?

When you do not fight over who is right but different views are entertained and respected?When you feel noticed, when the other person is present and attentive?Aren't relationship that feel like they are based on meaningful things, on underlying values

that are shared, aren't they more empowering? Aren't relationships that are flexibly activebetter than ones that are stuck in one gear (esp. a passive gear) always?Voila! That is the ACT model (your test for the day -- fit those sentences to the hexagon!).

So one way to think of the idea thatthe therapeutic alliance

(a combination of a warm supportive relationship and perhaps more

importantly in terms of outcome, agreement about a plan of action)

takes the lion's share of outcome:all therapies already contain procedures that promote ACT processes.Not nearly enough data to say that yet. But it might be so.And if it is, building on these processes can only help

Does this make sense?Happy Thanksgiving (for those on the list who celebrate this cool US holiday).

- S C. Foundation ProfessorDepartment of Psychology /298University of NevadaReno, NV 89557-0062hayes@... or stevenchayes@...

Fax: Context Press (you can use for messages): (www.contextpress.com)If you want my vita, publications, PowerPoint slides, go to http://www.contextualpsychology.org/blog/steven_hayes

If you are a professional or student and want to be part of the world wide ACT discussion or RFT discussions go to http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/acceptanceandcommitmenttherapy/join

orhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/relationalframetheory/joinIf you are a member of the public reading ACT self-help books (e.g., " Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life " etc) go to: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/join