Re: okay where is everyone today? Progesterone problem again

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I am sorry about your P problems. I can relate. I hate P! I

ordered some from Masters Marketing along with my Oestrogel to try

this next month for 10 days. It is the suppository kind that Val

uses and I will cut it into fourths to be 50mg.

I am waiting on a period to happen and am really late. Last month I

was doing a month long saliva test and I was really early like on

day 20 or 21. My doctor told me to go ahead and send in the tests

tubes I had already collected so I did and am waiting on results.

I am so tired of being messed up due to Wiley. It has been a year

now that I quit the high doses and started tapering down on E and

stopped P except for trying a few times at lower doses. I am 43 and

was cycling normally like I always had when I got on the WP

bandwagon. I was hoping it was the fountain of youth and it would

help even out my hormones and PMS. I really wish I had never done

this to my body. It has cost me so much money with testing and

doctor visits since I don't have insurance and it is all paid out of

my pocket. I do feel that at least I have a good doctor now that I

can trust and he helped me a bunch by doing the neurotransmitter

testing with a urine sample. A few amino acids have helped my

levels so much so at least I feel good and normal. WP hormones

really made my emotions go up and down and I was explosive at times

with my teenage girls and husband. Last summer I really thought it

was going to cost me my marriage. Also armour thyroid has helped

too and I am on 2.5 that I divide each morning and afternoon.

Does anyone know about Carolyn and how the time released oral E

worked out for her or can contact her? I have often wondered if it

was a success.

I don't know about protecting the lining. I have asked my doctor

about it because he was the one who really wanted me only taking E.

I am also doing a blood FSH and LH test next week to see if I might

be early menopausal. It is frustrating so I am hoping the tests

might shed some light on what is really happening with my body. I

will let you know how the suppositories work. May just be too much

though.

Sonii in Texas

[Guest guest]

Sonii, where in Texas are you?

Re: okay where is everyone today? Progesterone

problem again

> Hi ,

>

> I am sorry about your P problems. I can relate. I hate P! I

> ordered some from Masters Marketing along with my Oestrogel to try

> this next month for 10 days. It is the suppository kind that Val

> uses and I will cut it into fourths to be 50mg.

>

> I am waiting on a period to happen and am really late. Last month I

> was doing a month long saliva test and I was really early like on

> day 20 or 21. My doctor told me to go ahead and send in the tests

> tubes I had already collected so I did and am waiting on results.

>

> I am so tired of being messed up due to Wiley. It has been a year

> now that I quit the high doses and started tapering down on E and

> stopped P except for trying a few times at lower doses. I am 43 and

> was cycling normally like I always had when I got on the WP

> bandwagon. I was hoping it was the fountain of youth and it would

> help even out my hormones and PMS. I really wish I had never done

> this to my body. It has cost me so much money with testing and

> doctor visits since I don't have insurance and it is all paid out of

> my pocket. I do feel that at least I have a good doctor now that I

> can trust and he helped me a bunch by doing the neurotransmitter

> testing with a urine sample. A few amino acids have helped my

> levels so much so at least I feel good and normal. WP hormones

> really made my emotions go up and down and I was explosive at times

> with my teenage girls and husband. Last summer I really thought it

> was going to cost me my marriage. Also armour thyroid has helped

> too and I am on 2.5 that I divide each morning and afternoon.

>

> Does anyone know about Carolyn and how the time released oral E

> worked out for her or can contact her? I have often wondered if it

> was a success.

>

> I don't know about protecting the lining. I have asked my doctor

> about it because he was the one who really wanted me only taking E.

> I am also doing a blood FSH and LH test next week to see if I might

> be early menopausal. It is frustrating so I am hoping the tests

> might shed some light on what is really happening with my body. I

> will let you know how the suppositories work. May just be too much

> though.

>

> Sonii in Texas

>

>

>

>

>

>

> click here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/

>

> **The group conversation is informational in nature and is not intended as

> medical advice.**

>

[Guest guest]

> > I am so tired of being messed up due to Wiley. It has been a year

> > now that I quit the high doses and started tapering down on E and

> > stopped P except for trying a few times at lower doses. I am 43 and

> > was cycling normally like I always had when I got on the WP

> > bandwagon.

----> That article I just posted that's in the amazon book talks about

B6 being critical in the hormone receptors use of progesterone as well

as estrogen. I wonder if that would help.

However it also talked about the b6 being packaged with albumin in the

liver to keep it from being degraded during transport to receptors. At

the receptors it's changed back to the form needed. that's is if I

understood all I read ........

maybe our livers are much more a key to the progesterone use than we

realized especially after WP overdosing ourselves.....

Lynn

[Guest guest]

Sonii -- Val was using crinone I thought but now is using prometrium

right? What did you order? I understand just how you feel. I think I

will never be able to take P with any comfort again. I'm so frustrated

because I'm getting hot flashes too. Along with bleeding! Now

there's a combination! When I up my P, I get pain or feel like I'm

getting the flu !! If I say this to any doctor, they look at me like

I'm crazy. So I see I'm still not the only one with this problem. I'm

so depressed over this.

>

> Hi ,

>

> I am sorry about your P problems. I can relate. I hate P! I

> ordered some from Masters Marketing along with my Oestrogel to try

> this next month for 10 days. It is the suppository kind that Val

> uses and I will cut it into fourths to be 50mg.

>

[Guest guest]

I hope we didn't destroy our receptors.

>

> > > I am so tired of being messed up due to Wiley. It has been a

year

> > > now that I quit the high doses and started tapering down on E

and

> > > stopped P except for trying a few times at lower doses. I am

43 and

> > > was cycling normally like I always had when I got on the WP

> > > bandwagon.

>

> ----> That article I just posted that's in the amazon book talks

about

> B6 being critical in the hormone receptors use of progesterone as

well

> as estrogen. I wonder if that would help.

>

> However it also talked about the b6 being packaged with albumin in

the

> liver to keep it from being degraded during transport to

receptors. At

> the receptors it's changed back to the form needed. that's is if I

> understood all I read ........

>

> maybe our livers are much more a key to the progesterone use than

we

> realized especially after WP overdosing ourselves.....

>

> Lynn

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Does anyone know about Carolyn and how the time released oral E

> worked out for her or can contact her? I have often wondered if it

> was a success.

>

__________________________________________________________

Sonii -- Carolyn never reported back!

[Guest guest]

>

> Sonii -- Val was using crinone I thought but now is using prometrium

> right? What did you order? >

>

>

> ,

I ordered something called Cyclogest 200mg. It says Progesterone

PhEur on the box. It was what Val was using and much less expensive

than the crinone, especially when you divide it up into four parts for

each suppository. I was trying to make a good financial decision

since I pay for it out of pocket too!

Sonii

[Guest guest]

I've never used Crinone. I use the P suppositories from Masters, cut into quarters. That gives me 50 mg/night for 10 days/month. If you were to use P every day, I would imagine you'd use about half that vaginally. , I think you are using too much P. I use P to start a bleed, not to stop it.

Val

-----Original Message-----From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ]On Behalf Of Sonii -- Val was using crinone I thought but now is using prometrium right? What did you order? I understand just how you feel. I think I will never be able to take P with any comfort again. I'm so frustrated because I'm getting hot flashes too. Along with bleeding! Now there's a combination! When I up my P, I get pain or feel like I'm getting the flu !! If I say this to any doctor, they look at me like I'm crazy. So I see I'm still not the only one with this problem. I'm so depressed over this.

[Guest guest]

Well my doctor just called in a new prescription for P for me. She

said it was a 200 mg suppository. I'm hoping this helps with my

bleeding finally. Once my bleeding stops, I will definitely be

LOWERING that P! PS -- I wonder if what I'm getting is what you

have already.

> >

> > Sonii -- Val was using crinone I thought but now is using

prometrium

> > right? What did you order? >

> >

> >

> > ,

>

> I ordered something called Cyclogest 200mg. It says Progesterone

> PhEur on the box. It was what Val was using and much less

expensive

> than the crinone, especially when you divide it up into four parts

for

> each suppository. I was trying to make a good financial decision

> since I pay for it out of pocket too!

>

> Sonii

>

[Guest guest]

, be sure and look at the LONG post I put on the LR list today, where

Diane Petoskey talks about supplements and balancing hormones, P and E, with

them, and bleeding, etc. Also good info on how to use higher amounts of B6

safely. I can't post it to this list, I think it probably is too long for

the list rules. I may put it in the files section but I have to transpose it

back to a Word copy. It is just easier for people on this list to read it on

that list in the message archives for today, I would think. I don't even

know if I am allowed to put files in the file section of this list.

Re: okay where is everyone today? Progesterone

problem again

wELL Im' totally confused NOW because I have always used P to STOP

my bleeding. Depending on how much E I was using, I would raise my

P; otherwise, I would start to bleed. That is what I was told.

Now what I intend to do from here on out is only do P 14 days a

month. I've had it with this P! It kills my immune system for

whatever reason. My body wants to bleed, so let it bleed! You have

no problems with bleeding using P 50 mg a night? I'm using

Prochieve vaginal P gel 45 mgs a night and it's not helping with my

bleeding. I'm not using much P at all!

>

> I've never used Crinone. I use the P suppositories from Masters,

cut into

> quarters. That gives me 50 mg/night for 10 days/month. If you

were to use

> P every day, I would imagine you'd use about half that vaginally.

, I

> think you are using too much P. I use P to start a bleed, not to

stop it.

>

> Val

>

click here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/

**The group conversation is informational in nature and is not intended as

medical advice.**

[Guest guest]

OKay will check it out.

>

> , be sure and look at the LONG post I put on the LR list today,

where

> Diane Petoskey talks about supplements and balancing hormones, P and

E, with

> them, and bleeding, etc.

[Guest guest]

so then why isn't my 90mg of vaginal P stopping my bleeding? And I

don't get pain when using vaginal P like I do with creams or oral.

It's so weird!

>

> according to my fertility doc vaginal is 5 or more times more potent

than oral

>

> -

>

[Guest guest]

You girls are scaring me. I have a cold sore!! But I thought it

was because I'm bleeding so much. You felt better on 150 mg oral

P? Not me! It kills me! I don't know. Maybe it's because we are

just all different.

>

> i was put on 400mg of vaginal P once...200mg am and 200mg

pm...that's the standard prescription rate for girls trying to get

pregnant i did it for 1 day and almost died..then next 2 days i

did 200mg vaginally and 100mg orally, and felt the worst i've ever

felt in my life...then i did 100mg vaginal and 100mg oral..and still

felt terrible..not till i got to 150mg oral i felt better..feel bad

as in acne outbreak, hairloss...cold sore on my lip..aggression..hot

flashes at night and inability to sleep...the next 2 months was P

detox...

>

> -J.

[Guest guest]

I just think I am a person who can't use too much P. For whatever

reason, we can't! Yes I was only about to use one or two drops of

OOP too. Otherwise, pain and throbbing down my neck and spine. It

happened EVERY time! But nne - don't you use a LOT of E?

Doesn't that make you bleed?

>

> I am using OOP transdermal every day. I am down to 1 drop per day.

( 8 drops

> = 50mg) I do not bleed with that amount. I have used P in many

different

> forms. I agree they all register differently.

>

> nne

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Cold sores are the herpes virus, and they can be herpes simplex I or II

either on the mouth or genitally. Nutrition can prevent those outbreaks, I

speak from many decades of personal experience! Chinese herbalists say that

it is possible to get rid of the virus completely, which western medicine

says is not possible. Those same folks say the hep C virus can be made to

disappear in blood tests. Western medicine says the herpes virus goes

dormant but always lives in the spine once you get it. I think more studies

and info needs to be done and obtained before we know for sure about

disappearing viruses, but the active symptoms certianly can be controlled.

Canker sores are a more common sign of a B vitamin imbalance. Taking single

isolated Bs without also taking the complex in a balanced form can help set

off the imbalances, but it takes months or years. Although as someone else

on this list said yesteday, most women today are imbalanced already, so that

is all the more reason, in my opinion, to use the balanced complex along

with any extra B vitamins that one may need, using a good practitioner who

understands these things to help you determine that.

By now you may have read the Diane Petoskey tape transcript on the LR list

about women's hormones and supplements and you see how she explains all of

this so well. She herself got canker sores when she was messing around with

B vitamins when she was young and didn't know anything, as she puts it.

Herpes (cold sores) are also a sign of nutritional imbalance, but not

specifically B vitamin related, although when your Bs have been imbalanced

for many years or decades, anything is possible. But herpes is generally

helped with specific diet programs, zinc, C and lots of lysine, an amino

acid, I think it is. Diane Petoskey has an entire program for it. You can

google herpes and lysine and amino acids. There is one that if you get too

much, you get a herpes outbreak and if you don't get enough of another, you

get a herpes outbreak. I think the lysine is the one you need lots of, but

can't remember for sure, would have to look it up again. Ideally you need to

cut out stuff, like all sugar, maybe dairy, I can't remember, to get rid of

the problem and prevent it from coming back. Your naturopath should know all

about this, ask him!

Herpes outbreaks happen to most of us when our immune system isn't working

right, often when we are under severe stress. Hormone imbalances count as

severe stress!

Re: okay where is everyone today? Progesterone

problem again

You girls are scaring me. I have a cold sore!! But I thought it

was because I'm bleeding so much. You felt better on 150 mg oral

P? Not me! It kills me! I don't know. Maybe it's because we are

just all different.

[Guest guest]

i took oral compounded caplsules vaginally..i think with crinone some %% of it *like 5* gets attached to the vaginal walls and never gets into your system... -J. wrote: so then why isn't my 90mg of vaginal P stopping my bleeding? And I don't get pain when using vaginal P like I do with creams or oral. It's so weird! >> according to my fertility doc vaginal is 5 or more times more potent than oral> > ->

#define QUESTION ((bb) || !(bb)) - Shakespeare

[Guest guest]

well, P lowers immune system..that's why pregnant women have a lot of P, so that their immune system wouldn't reject the fetus...hence the cold sores...i know thought, everyone is individual... -J. wrote: You girls are scaring me. I have a cold sore!! But I thought it was because I'm bleeding so much. You felt better on 150 mg oral P? Not me! It kills me! I don't know. Maybe it's because we are just all different. >> i was put on 400mg of vaginal P once...200mg am and 200mg pm...that's the standard prescription rate for girls trying to get pregnant i did it for 1 day and almost died..then next 2

days i did 200mg vaginally and 100mg orally, and felt the worst i've ever felt in my life...then i did 100mg vaginal and 100mg oral..and still felt terrible..not till i got to 150mg oral i felt better..feel bad as in acne outbreak, hairloss...cold sore on my lip..aggression..hot flashes at night and inability to sleep...the next 2 months was P detox...> > -J.

#define QUESTION ((bb) || !(bb)) - Shakespeare

[Guest guest]

I'm going for bloodwork next week so I'll see what my P level is.

Should be interesting.

>

> well, P lowers immune system..that's why pregnant women have a lot of

P, so that their immune system wouldn't reject the fetus...hence the

cold sores...i know thought, everyone is individual...

>

> -J.

>

>

[Guest guest]

-

you are going to laugh but when I was taking Blue Green Algae, I

never got one cold sore! I'm not on it anymore but I doubt I get

enough Bs. I take pantethine and that is it. But I have been

under a lot of stress lately!

>

> Cold sores are the herpes virus, and they can be herpes simplex I

or II

> either on the mouth or genitally. Nutrition can prevent those

outbreaks, I

> speak from many decades of personal experience! Chinese herbalists

say that

> it is possible to get rid of the virus completely, which western

medicine

> says is not possible. Those same folks say the hep C virus can be

made to

> disappear in blood tests. Western medicine says the herpes virus

goes

> dormant but always lives in the spine once you get it. I think

more studies

> and info needs to be done and obtained before we know for sure

about

> disappearing viruses, but the active symptoms certianly can be

controlled.

>

> Canker sores are a more common sign of a B vitamin imbalance.

Taking single

> isolated Bs without also taking the complex in a balanced form can

help set

> off the imbalances, but it takes months or years. Although as

someone else

> on this list said yesteday, most women today are imbalanced

already, so that

> is all the more reason, in my opinion, to use the balanced complex

along

> with any extra B vitamins that one may need, using a good

practitioner who

> understands these things to help you determine that.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Actually I am curious as to why that would be, for there may be something in

it that helps with that, I don't know. I don't think we know all the

nutritional info on herpes, just a few things that make a difference, which

is good, but not the complete picture by any means. The Bs don't have much

to do with herpes one way or another, and the algae doesn't have enough of

them to make a difference anyway. It could be coincidence or it could mean

there was something in that helping keep the little buggies dormant in your

system.

It has good things in it, but in such minute amounts it is hard to believe

they could do much good and the amount is way over-priced compared to

getting those nutrients from other sources.

But the ONLY negative info I know about it is what I already told you, about

the neurological damage people were claiming over enough years to realize

there must be something to it, and enough people involved to help determine

there was a problem. It MAY be coincidence that the husband of a woman I

know who has sold that stuff for decades and uses it like it was nectar, now

has a husband, who also used huge amounts, with Lou Gehrig's disease and he

was diagnosed at about age 50 or a bit older. AT least my aunt didn't get it

until she was about 80!!!

I am sure VEgetarian Times can be contacted and that article from about 1990

and the subsequent deluge of letters to the editor over several issues from

people with similar experiences and also those who were mad the magazine

reported the neurological theory and first-person stories, can be obtained.

My sister who sold the products and used them like crazy for a couple of

years had to quit when she started getting horrid headaches!

Re: okay where is everyone today? Progesterone

problem again

> -

>

> you are going to laugh but when I was taking Blue Green Algae, I

> never got one cold sore! I'm not on it anymore but I doubt I get

> enough Bs. I take pantethine and that is it. But I have been

> under a lot of stress lately!

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have to be careful about going to the dentist during the P phase or I end up with a cold sore.

Val

-----Original Message-----From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ]On Behalf Of Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 8:33 AMTo: rhythmicliving Subject: Re: okay where is everyone today? Progesterone problem againYou girls are scaring me. I have a cold sore!! But I thought it was because I'm bleeding so much. You felt better on 150 mg oral P? Not me! It kills me! I don't know. Maybe it's because we are just all different.

[Guest guest]

I'm guessing that you're bleeding because of low E and high P. I use P to bleed. It takes 2 or 3 days of E to stop it after I've been off everything for 5 or 6 days to have a bleed. Have you had a biopsy?

Val

-----Original Message-----From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ]On Behalf Of she consulted with the pharmacist about it! He gives up to 600 mg vaginal P. He told her that you get less systemic problems with it. I actually do get less problems. I don't get the neck pain and joint pain when I use vaginal P. This is temporary - just until the bleeding stops. I used 75 mg of the sublingual P and I was in pain! And it did NOT stop the bleeding. But last night I used my 8% crinone (the 90mg) and I'm STILL bleeding. Apparently it's not high enough. And I'm not taking triest - but biest. But still it's barely any estradiol I know.

[Guest guest]

Wow that is scary. I never took enough of it. They really wanted

you to up the dosing (obviously for financial benefits to them) but

I never did.

>

> Actually I am curious as to why that would be, for there may be

something in

> it that helps with that, I don't know. I don't think we know all

the

> nutritional info on herpes, just a few things that make a

difference, which

> is good, but not the complete picture by any means. The Bs don't

have much

> to do with herpes one way or another, and the algae doesn't have

enough of

> them to make a difference anyway. It could be coincidence or it

could mean

> there was something in that helping keep the little buggies

dormant in your

> system.

>

> It has good things in it, but in such minute amounts it is hard to

believe

> they could do much good and the amount is way over-priced compared

to

> getting those nutrients from other sources.

>

[Guest guest]

Well I just upped my E because I was flashing like crazy again.

Flashing and bleeding is no fun! No biopsy. I'm tired of them! I

will go though if this doesn't stop soon. In the meantime, should I

take iron or not? Some say yes, some say no

>

> I'm guessing that you're bleeding because of low E and high P. I

use P to

> bleed. It takes 2 or 3 days of E to stop it after I've been off

everything

> for 5 or 6 days to have a bleed. Have you had a biopsy?

>

> Val

[Guest guest]

Yes I was only about to use one or two drops of

OOP too. Otherwise, pain and throbbing down my neck and spine. It

happened EVERY time! But nne - don't you use a LOT of E?

Doesn't that make you bleed?

You are correct . I use 21mg of OOE each day. I don't bleed at all.

nne