Re: Hello from a new member

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Some of us were following a small rhythmic dosing schedule after our

disasters with wiley. The high progesterone levels that she has women

on were the problem. It accumulated in the fat and sent our systems

haywire. You could experiment with creams, gels or whatever choice

seems to work well for you with creating a small rhythm monthly.

I can't speak for others but personally for me it got too complicated

to remember it all, get to work on time and get other parts of my life

going. I'm using a patch for now to give me a steady daily dose.

There were some men on a rhythmic dosing of hormones but I'm not sure

if any are still doing that. My husband just rubs his stuff in and

takes off for work.

Please post your issues with BHRT...you'll get lots of information back.

Bye

Lynn

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

As far as dosing for men my husband sees Dr. Shippen (The Testosterone Syndrome)

and

mens rhythms are a little different. He takes injections (into fat base) and

also a little T in a

transdermal base w/DHEA and something else and has his numbers (T and E and

SHBG)

checked regularly and is doing really well. The T can't get too high because

that makes the

E go high also which is not too good for a guy. There seems to be a sweet spot

for men

also when it comes to taking hormones, more doesn't necessarily mean better.

Karin

>

> Hello,

>

> My name is Connard, and I just joined the group a few days

> ago. I've been reading the posts with great interest.

>

> I've never been on the Wiley Protocol, but came across the book a

> couple of weeks ago and immediately ordered it. It made a

> tremendous amount of sense to me and I was very excited about

> getting onto the WP -- until I found the Rhythmic Living website and

> read about all the problems a lot of you have had with the high P

> doses.

>

> I really like the idea of following a rhymthic protocol that

> simulates the body's natural hormonal rhythms. What I need now is a

> good doctor who's knowledgeable about rhythmic dosing. It could

> certainly be someone who uses the WP, as long as he or she modifies

> it as needed to work well for each individual.

>

> Can any of you recommend doctors? I live in Florida, in the Tampa

> Bay area, but if I have to travel, I will.

>

> Also, somewhere in one of the RL posts, I saw a mention of the WP

> for men. Can someone tell me anything about that? My husband is on

> DHEA and testosterone, but is there a rhythmic aspect to male

> hormone levels?

>

> I have some issues related to BHRT that I'd like to run by you all,

> but I'll save that for another post.

>

> Thanks,

>

>

[Guest guest]

writes:

I have some issues related to BHRT that I'd like to run by you all, > but I'll save that for another post.

Welcome ,

Og the 200 or more that started, I don't think there's anyone left on this group that is still doing WP. Too many casualties.

The pharmacists get asked all the time to recommend something better. Have you read any of Vliet's books or Uzzi Reiss' book on natural hormones?

Lynne

[Guest guest]

Re: otherr books on hormones, how about Schwartzbein's books. She

recommends lower doses of hormones, but also likes cycling for post

menopausal. I am 2 weeks off WP's dosing, but still using her hormones for

now....I hope that's okay....and I am using way low doses re: Uzzi Reiss and

Shwarzbwein. I don't think it was just high P that got me, but Hi E2 also.

Just way too much hormone period!!!! From what I've read high E is big

cause of hair loss.

Jeanie

>From: lynnelalala@...

>Reply-To: rhythmicliving

>To: rhythmicliving

>Subject: Re: Re: Hello from a new member

>Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 19:41:39 EDT

>

>

> writes:

>

>I have some issues related to BHRT that I'd like to run by you all,

> > but I'll save that for another post.

>

>

>Welcome ,

>

>Og the 200 or more that started, I don't think there's anyone left on this

>group that is still doing WP. Too many casualties.

>

>The pharmacists get asked all the time to recommend something better. Have

>you read any of Vliet's books or Uzzi Reiss' book on natural

>hormones?

>

>Lynne

[Guest guest]

top posting... Welcome .I wonder about docs Rx'ing the WP.  Given what I know about hormones now I could not, in good conscience, prescribe the WP if I were a doctor.  If that much hormone is not giving blood levels then there is something really wrong!  I remember Dr. Formby's horror when he often told me me that no scientific institution would get approval to do such high doses on animals because it would be considered animal abuse.  There was more insanity to the choosing of that dosing schedule than anyone can ever imagine.  Dr. Formby was horrified by it and did not endorse it.  And yet, I don't want a doctor that will only give me a dribble of tri-est!!!   If a doctor is Rx'ing a rhythmic protocol based on individual needs then that is just a rhythmic protocol, not the WP.  It is important for everyone to know this because when someone says they are doing well on the WP and in truth they are using reasonable doses of hormones they are giving support to the suprapharmalogical schedule that Wiley is touting.  In my experience (when my days were full of this and I was talking to hundreds of women online, on the phone, and in person) I never encountered anyone who was on the full WP who was ok.  Anyone who said so was attributing their depression, weight gain, or other bad symptoms to other things and they forgot Occam's razor.   Anyone who seemed to be ok... it always turned out they were on about 1/4 or less of the hormones.  About the men's protocol.  It is 40mg of T cream BID and 30mg of DHEA cream AM.  Some pharmacists consider that a big dose.  There is nothing special about it compared to what other doctors do, but she said it is a Wiley protocol so she can get a cut from the pharmacies.  She has no professional experience with men's hormones either.   If you are looking for guidance with men's hormones the name I'd trust first is Dr. Shippen.  He has a book which is a good start.  My father, my partner, and several men that I know are doing T with successful results.  Anyone who is near my children does T injections.  Laurel Hello,My name is Connard, and I just joined the group a few days ago. I've been reading the posts with great interest.I've never been on the Wiley Protocol, but came across the book a couple of weeks ago and immediately ordered it. It made a tremendous amount of sense to me and I was very excited about getting onto the WP -- until I found the Rhythmic Living website and read about all the problems a lot of you have had with the high P doses.I really like the idea of following a rhymthic protocol that simulates the body's natural hormonal rhythms. What I need now is a good doctor who's knowledgeable about rhythmic dosing. It could certainly be someone who uses the WP, as long as he or she modifies it as needed to work well for each individual. Can any of you recommend doctors? I live in Florida, in the Tampa Bay area, but if I have to travel, I will.Also, somewhere in one of the RL posts, I saw a mention of the WP for men. Can someone tell me anything about that? My husband is on DHEA and testosterone, but is there a rhythmic aspect to male hormone levels?I have some issues related to BHRT that I'd like to run by you all, but I'll save that for another post.Thanks,

[Guest guest]

 I don't think it was just high P that got me, but Hi E2 also. Just way too much hormone period!!!! From what I've read high E is big cause of hair loss.Jeanie___________________________I've heard that high E creates hair loss, but personally I've never seen it.  The only trouble I've ever had with hair loss was when I had too much P.   Since I've been mostly off P my hair is fine.  Add in just a little P to try and cycle and my hair goes dry and I start to see loss.  I think I'm pack to the gills with P.  And I don't get thyroid related hair loss either.  My P related hair loss is male pattern (DHT, I suspect).Laurel

[Guest guest]

Hi Laurel,

All that's very interesting -- thanks. I agree that it's not a good

idea to lend legitimacy to the WP by saying you're using the WP and

doing fine while using much lower doses of hormones.

I guess what I'm looking for is a doctor who agrees with the concept

of using a rhythmic dosing protocol with much lower doses than the

WP, and cutomized for the individual. I also need someone who won't

be freaked out by fibroids and a uterine lining that seems to be too

thick. Anyone have any doctor ideas for me (especially in Florida)?

Thanks,

-- In rhythmicliving , Laurel wrote:

>

> top posting...

>

> Welcome .

> I wonder about docs Rx'ing the WP. Given what I know about

hormones

> now I could not, in good conscience, prescribe the WP if I were a

> doctor. If that much hormone is not giving blood levels then

there

> is something really wrong! I remember Dr. Formby's horror when

he

> often told me me that no scientific institution would get approval

to

> do such high doses on animals because it would be considered

animal

> abuse. There was more insanity to the choosing of that dosing

> schedule than anyone can ever imagine. Dr. Formby was horrified

by

> it and did not endorse it. And yet, I don't want a doctor that

will

> only give me a dribble of tri-est!!!

>

> If a doctor is Rx'ing a rhythmic protocol based on individual

needs

> then that is just a rhythmic protocol, not the WP. It is

important

> for everyone to know this because when someone says they are

doing

> well on the WP and in truth they are using reasonable doses of

> hormones they are giving support to the suprapharmalogical

schedule

> that Wiley is touting. In my experience (when my days were full

of

> this and I was talking to hundreds of women online, on the phone,

and

> in person) I never encountered anyone who was on the full WP who

was

> ok. Anyone who said so was attributing their depression, weight

> gain, or other bad symptoms to other things and they forgot

Occam's

> razor. Anyone who seemed to be ok... it always turned out they

were

> on about 1/4 or less of the hormones.

>

> About the men's protocol. It is 40mg of T cream BID and 30mg of

DHEA

> cream AM. Some pharmacists consider that a big dose. There is

> nothing special about it compared to what other doctors do, but

she

> said it is a Wiley protocol so she can get a cut from the

> pharmacies. She has no professional experience with men's

hormones

> either. If you are looking for guidance with men's hormones the

> name I'd trust first is Dr. Shippen. He has a book which is a

good

> start. My father, my partner, and several men that I know are

doing

> T with successful results. Anyone who is near my children does T

> injections.

>

> Laurel

>

>

>

>

>

>

> > Hello,

> >

> > My name is Connard, and I just joined the group a few days

> > ago. I've been reading the posts with great interest.

> >

> > I've never been on the Wiley Protocol, but came across the book a

> > couple of weeks ago and immediately ordered it. It made a

> > tremendous amount of sense to me and I was very excited about

> > getting onto the WP -- until I found the Rhythmic Living website

and

> > read about all the problems a lot of you have had with the high P

> > doses.

> >

> > I really like the idea of following a rhymthic protocol that

> > simulates the body's natural hormonal rhythms. What I need now

is a

> > good doctor who's knowledgeable about rhythmic dosing. It could

> > certainly be someone who uses the WP, as long as he or she

modifies

> > it as needed to work well for each individual.

> >

> > Can any of you recommend doctors? I live in Florida, in the Tampa

> > Bay area, but if I have to travel, I will.

> >

> > Also, somewhere in one of the RL posts, I saw a mention of the WP

> > for men. Can someone tell me anything about that? My husband is

on

> > DHEA and testosterone, but is there a rhythmic aspect to male

> > hormone levels?

> >

> > I have some issues related to BHRT that I'd like to run by you

all,

> > but I'll save that for another post.

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

JGC wrote: I guess what I'm looking for is a doctor who agrees with the concept of using a rhythmic dosing protocol with much lower doses than the WP, and cutomized for the individual. I also need someone who won't be freaked out by fibroids and a uterine lining that seems to be too thick. Anyone have any doctor ideas for me (especially in Florida)?, I had fibroids when I started on the WP protocol. Wiley said her

protocol would shrink them. NO WAY. After 5 months being on the WP protocol I ended up dealing with heavy, heavy periods and then it became harder and harder to stop the bleeding and finally I had a hysterectomy. My uterus was full of fibroids and even though my doctor had done a laparoscopic hysterectomy, she ended up having to cut all the fibroids out. Now that my uterus is gone, I am so much more comfortable doing BHRT. I no longer am doing the progesterone. I am very fortunate to have a gyno who is not afraid of estrogen. That is a biggy. It is almost the first thing we should ask a doctor: what is your fear level re estrogen?? LOL I do about 4mg/Estradiol twice a day and 1 mg of Testosterone. There are studies out now that indicate that taking estradiol and testosterone together is breast cancer protective. You may want to googgle

Dimitrikakis for references. So my suggestions is, if you do have fibroids, to be monitored regularly. We do not know what exact combination of hormones will shrink them. My personal opinion is that fibroids are caused by dis-harmony of hormones. Estrogen always gets the blame for that, but I do not think it is that simple. BTW thanks for your interesting post re amino acids and neurotransmitters! Madeleen

Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

[Guest guest]

Hi Madeleen,

Thanks for the Dimitrakakis reference. I did google him, and have

added that info to the stuff I'm collecting on complete hormone

balance.

I do agree that disharmony probably has more to do with fibroids and

other pathological conditions than the pressence of any one

hormone. Thanks for sharing your expereince -- that doesn't sound

like fun.

I'm trying to figure out what protocol not only handles menopausal

symptoms, but promotes optimum over-all health. If I don't figure

out what doctor to see, I may just go all out and see Dr. Thierry

Hertoghe in Belgium. He wrote " The Hormone Solution, " and I have

the impression that he's one of the leading-edge endocrinologists

addressing complete hormone balance for general health and anti-

aging purposes.

Yes, I think neurotransmitters are another major key . . .

>

> I guess what I'm looking for is a doctor who agrees with the

concept

> of using a rhythmic dosing protocol with much lower doses than the

> WP, and cutomized for the individual. I also need someone who

won't

> be freaked out by fibroids and a uterine lining that seems to be

too

> thick. Anyone have any doctor ideas for me (especially in Florida)?

>

> ,

> I had fibroids when I started on the WP protocol. Wiley said

her protocol would shrink them. NO WAY. After 5 months being on

the WP protocol I ended up dealing with heavy, heavy periods and

then it became harder and harder to stop the bleeding and finally I

had a hysterectomy. My uterus was full of fibroids and even though

my doctor had done a laparoscopic hysterectomy, she ended up having

to cut all the fibroids out.

> Now that my uterus is gone, I am so much more comfortable doing

BHRT. I no longer am doing the progesterone. I am very fortunate

to have a gyno who is not afraid of estrogen. That is a biggy. It

is almost the first thing we should ask a doctor: what is your fear

level re estrogen?? LOL

> I do about 4mg/Estradiol twice a day and 1 mg of Testosterone.

There are studies out now that indicate that taking estradiol and

testosterone together is breast cancer protective. You may want to

googgle Dimitrikakis for references.

> So my suggestions is, if you do have fibroids, to be monitored

regularly. We do not know what exact combination of hormones will

shrink them. My personal opinion is that fibroids are caused by dis-

harmony of hormones. Estrogen always gets the blame for that, but I

do not think it is that simple.

> BTW thanks for your interesting post re amino acids and

neurotransmitters!

> Madeleen

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.

Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

>