Re: Digest Number 1841

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/30/01 7:11:00 AM !!!First Boot!!!,

writes:

<< Im really confused first 4 years ago ny biochemist tells me i have

cfs then i stopped working with him and went to a nauopath and he

said i had cfs and lot of other things wrong reg doc says nothings

wrong but i cant work or do much an my body feels so ill. >>

Wow I have had a very similar experience; and I KNOW your frustration;

there's so many avenues to take with this illness; what do you do?? I've

made good progress with my naturopath in the last 16 months; but it is slow.

Pain is much improved; as are endurance, concentration, & metabolism. But

I'm very weak still; nerves/adrenals are bad and methadone withdrawl and

klonopin withdrawl makes my brain/anxiety problems a real struggle. My doc

believes I have an infection(s); and that plus my immune reaction is why I'm

so sick. Then I join the lyme list and tell people there about my illness

history; and a couple think its really likely that I have lyme; that I

should see an LLMD (lyme literate MD). I read a couple stories about how

they were so sick; mentally in bad shape (my worst symptom by far) and that

with antibiotic treatment they are doing much better; they say I simply must

get to an LLMD and get tested for lyme. Then I read some articles about how

lyme is overdiagnosed; and read how antibiotics can really mess up the body

if taken for too long. How they're only effective when the lyme is in it's

active phase. It is stressful trying to figure out what to do. As far as

mycoplasmas go I can give you a little of my own experience. I used herb

formulas which were made to kill the mycoplasmas. They helped me for a

couple months; then I was back where I started. Since they did help I

concluded that I do probably have mycoplasmas; ( I think atleast half with

CFS/FMS do have myco problems); but was it the myco's causing me to be sick?

or was it my disfunctional immune system which caused the out of control

myco's in the first place? i think it is the latter.

[Guest guest]

I can't encourage people with all these problems strongly enough to look at the

website http://www.web-light.nl?AMALGM/EN/SCIENCE/bernie_science.html

Here are some brief quotes from this site;

" Mercyry has bben found ot impair conversion of thyroid T4 hormone ot the

active T3 form as well as causing autoimmune thyroiditis common to such

patients. Ingenaral immune activation from toxics such a heavy metals resulting

in cytokine release and abnormalities of hte hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenal axis

can cause changes in the brain, fatigue, and severe psychological disturbances,

gastrointestinal and neurological problems as are seen in CFS, fibromyalgia, and

autoimmune thyroiditis. Such symptoms usually improvesignigicantly after

amalgam removal. " (and subsequent chelation of remaining mercury from body

stores).

" Patients with other systemic neurological or immune symptoms such as

arthritis, myalgia, eczema, CFS, MS, lupus, ALS, diabetes, epilepsy, Hashimodo's

thyroiditis, schleroderma, etc also often recover or improve significantly after

amalgam replacement....Of a group of 86 patients with CFS symptoms, 78% reported

significant health improvements after replacement of amalgam fillings within a

relatively short period. "

" Mercury exposure through fillings appears to ba a major factor inchronic

fatigue syndrome through its effects on ATP and immune system and its promotion

of growth of candida albicans in the body and the methylation of onorganic

mercury by candida to the extremely toxic methyl mercury form which like mercury

vapor crosses the blood-brain barrier and also damages and weakens the immune

system. "

" Mercury causes singnficant destruction of stomach and intestine epithelial

cells, resulting indamage to stomach lining whichalong with mercury's ability to

bind to SH hydroxyl radical in cell membranes alters permeability and adversely

alters bacterial populations in theintestines causing leaky gut syndrome with

toxic, incompletely digested complexes in the blood and accumulation of

heliobacter pylori, a suspected major factor instomach ulcers and stomach cancer

and candida albicans, as well as poor nutrient absorption. "

I think almost all of us can see at least a part of ourselves described in

these quotes. The website is 68 pages long and continues by adding the

importance of chelation with amalgam removal stating that it means the

difference between 86% recovery rate and only 16 % recovery rate.

I am in the process of having the mercury taken out of my mouth. I'm aware

that it could be months before I see any substantial improvement due to the time

it takes to chelate the stuff out of your body, and to the temporary increased

exposure due to the removal process itself. I'll keep you informed.

The continued use of antibiotcs treating the multiple infections we tend to

get just exacerbates the problem. Both our bodies and the bacteria become

resistant setting us up for even worse symptoms. It's time for doctors to stop

putting temporary bandaids over these chronic problems and start asking the

question, " why are these people getting these mutliple infections in the first

place? Why are their immune systems impaired? " Antibiotics (although somtimes

necessary) are not solving the problem and in most cases only add to the

problem. Be aware of doctors that only treat symptom by symptom - bandaid to

bandaid - without getting to the root of the problem in the first place.

Re: Digest Number 1841

In a message dated 5/30/01 7:11:00 AM !!!First Boot!!!,

writes:

<< Im really confused first 4 years ago ny biochemist tells me i have

cfs then i stopped working with him and went to a nauopath and he

said i had cfs and lot of other things wrong reg doc says nothings

wrong but i cant work or do much an my body feels so ill. >>

Wow I have had a very similar experience; and I KNOW your frustration;

there's so many avenues to take with this illness; what do you do?? I've

made good progress with my naturopath in the last 16 months; but it is slow.

Pain is much improved; as are endurance, concentration, & metabolism. But

I'm very weak still; nerves/adrenals are bad and methadone withdrawl and

klonopin withdrawl makes my brain/anxiety problems a real struggle. My doc

believes I have an infection(s); and that plus my immune reaction is why I'm

so sick. Then I join the lyme list and tell people there about my illness

history; and a couple think its really likely that I have lyme; that I

should see an LLMD (lyme literate MD). I read a couple stories about how

they were so sick; mentally in bad shape (my worst symptom by far) and that

with antibiotic treatment they are doing much better; they say I simply must

get to an LLMD and get tested for lyme. Then I read some articles about how

lyme is overdiagnosed; and read how antibiotics can really mess up the body

if taken for too long. How they're only effective when the lyme is in it's

active phase. It is stressful trying to figure out what to do. As far as

mycoplasmas go I can give you a little of my own experience. I used herb

formulas which were made to kill the mycoplasmas. They helped me for a

couple months; then I was back where I started. Since they did help I

concluded that I do probably have mycoplasmas; ( I think atleast half with

CFS/FMS do have myco problems); but was it the myco's causing me to be sick?

or was it my disfunctional immune system which caused the out of control

myco's in the first place? i think it is the latter.

[Guest guest]

I agree amalgam fillings are bad for many people, I had mine removed.

However it is not so simple. No to experts in the world can agree on what

type of chelation works and doesn't just redistribute mercury around your

body. Sometimes it redistributes it to your brain and you get worse brain

fog, for example. Some of the chelation agents are very dangerous. Even

the safe way to have the amalgams removed is argued. It is unfortunate

that there is not more knowledge to go on here; I'm sure there will be in

5 years when unsafety is proven and many more people want theirs removed.

However, you imply that people think antibiotics are a solution to CFIDS.

Nobody that gives them thinks they will solve problems alone, without

strengthening the immune system as well.

Also, the following excerpt from your article addresses CFS as if the only

problem from amalgams is candida which NOT all of us have. Of course the

article had many of examples of how the immune system can be affected and

those are probably true.

What it doesn't state, which many people seem to agree on now, is that

only about 5-10% of the people are negatively affected by amalgams. This

can explain why for some people it doesn't make any difference, and why

studies are often inconclusive.

Cindi

" Tania & " <fe38@...>

06/01/01 11:34 AM

Please respond to

cc:

Subject: Re: Digest Number 1841

I can't encourage people with all these problems strongly enough to look

at the website http://www.web-light.nl?AMALGM/EN/SCIENCE/bernie_science.html

Here are some brief quotes from this site;

" Mercyry has bben found ot impair conversion of thyroid T4 hormone ot

the active T3 form as well as causing autoimmune thyroiditis common to

such patients. Ingenaral immune activation from toxics such a heavy

metals resulting in cytokine release and abnormalities of hte

hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenal axis can cause changes in the brain,

fatigue, and severe psychological disturbances, gastrointestinal and

neurological problems as are seen in CFS, fibromyalgia, and autoimmune

thyroiditis. Such symptoms usually improvesignigicantly after amalgam

removal. " (and subsequent chelation of remaining mercury from body

stores).

" Patients with other systemic neurological or immune symptoms such as

arthritis, myalgia, eczema, CFS, MS, lupus, ALS, diabetes, epilepsy,

Hashimodo's thyroiditis, schleroderma, etc also often recover or improve

significantly after amalgam replacement....Of a group of 86 patients with

CFS symptoms, 78% reported significant health improvements after

replacement of amalgam fillings within a relatively short period. "

" Mercury exposure through fillings appears to ba a major factor

inchronic fatigue syndrome through its effects on ATP and immune system

and its promotion of growth of candida albicans in the body and the

methylation of onorganic mercury by candida to the extremely toxic methyl

mercury form which like mercury vapor crosses the blood-brain barrier and

also damages and weakens the immune system. "

" Mercury causes singnficant destruction of stomach and intestine

epithelial cells, resulting indamage to stomach lining whichalong with

mercury's ability to bind to SH hydroxyl radical in cell membranes alters

permeability and adversely alters bacterial populations in theintestines

causing leaky gut syndrome with toxic, incompletely digested complexes in

the blood and accumulation of heliobacter pylori, a suspected major factor

instomach ulcers and stomach cancer and candida albicans, as well as poor

nutrient absorption. "

I think almost all of us can see at least a part of ourselves described

in these quotes. The website is 68 pages long and continues by adding the

importance of chelation with amalgam removal stating that it means the

difference between 86% recovery rate and only 16 % recovery rate.

I am in the process of having the mercury taken out of my mouth. I'm

aware that it could be months before I see any substantial improvement due

to the time it takes to chelate the stuff out of your body, and to the

temporary increased exposure due to the removal process itself. I'll keep

you informed.

The continued use of antibiotcs treating the multiple infections we tend

to get just exacerbates the problem. Both our bodies and the bacteria

become resistant setting us up for even worse symptoms. It's time for

doctors to stop putting temporary bandaids over these chronic problems and

start asking the question, " why are these people getting these mutliple

infections in the first place? Why are their immune systems impaired? "

Antibiotics (although somtimes necessary) are not solving the problem and

in most cases only add to the problem. Be aware of doctors that only

treat symptom by symptom - bandaid to bandaid - without getting to the

root of the problem in the first place.

[Guest guest]

You may want to read the whole article. What I typed in was just that -

excerpts. The article in no way states that the only problem with amalgams is

yeast. Quite to the contrary, it goes on for several pages about the multiple

problems amalgams cause. I repeat, I only typed excerpts that I thought most

pertained to many people suffering with CFS.

You're right, there are many differing views on how best to chelate mercury

from one's body. The best that one can hope for is to find a doctor that is

knowledgeable in this field, and that has experienced successes without harming

anyone. I agree that you definitely have to know what you're doing (or the

doctor does) in order to do this safely.

I'm not sure where you get the 5-10% of people with CFS being helped with

amalgam removal. There's not enough information in those numbers. For example,

how were the amalgams removed? Were there safety measures taken? Did the

people cited in these numbers undergo chelation? If so, how qualified were the

doctors supervising the chelation process? Who is the source that only 5-10%

recover? Too many unknowns to just accept these numbers blindly.

I'm not saying that this will help everyone. However, I do believe that it

certainly bears looking into. Especially when mercury toxicity has been proven

to cause sooooo many of the symptoms described by ppl with illnesses like CFS.

I also don't mean to imply that people think that antibiotics are a solution

to CFS. I think that people understand that CFS if a complicated illness with

many factors involved. I simply want to verbalize my concern about taking too

many antibiotics to temporarily ameliorate symptoms without challenging doctors

to treat the reason why one's immune system isn't working in the first place. I

believe this illness can be abated once the ROOT of the problem is discovered,

not by treating mere symptoms.

Re: Digest Number 1841

I can't encourage people with all these problems strongly enough to look

at the website http://www.web-light.nl?AMALGM/EN/SCIENCE/bernie_science.html

Here are some brief quotes from this site;

" Mercyry has bben found ot impair conversion of thyroid T4 hormone ot

the active T3 form as well as causing autoimmune thyroiditis common to

such patients. Ingenaral immune activation from toxics such a heavy

metals resulting in cytokine release and abnormalities of hte

hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenal axis can cause changes in the brain,

fatigue, and severe psychological disturbances, gastrointestinal and

neurological problems as are seen in CFS, fibromyalgia, and autoimmune

thyroiditis. Such symptoms usually improvesignigicantly after amalgam

removal. " (and subsequent chelation of remaining mercury from body

stores).

" Patients with other systemic neurological or immune symptoms such as

arthritis, myalgia, eczema, CFS, MS, lupus, ALS, diabetes, epilepsy,

Hashimodo's thyroiditis, schleroderma, etc also often recover or improve

significantly after amalgam replacement....Of a group of 86 patients with

CFS symptoms, 78% reported significant health improvements after

replacement of amalgam fillings within a relatively short period. "

" Mercury exposure through fillings appears to ba a major factor

inchronic fatigue syndrome through its effects on ATP and immune system

and its promotion of growth of candida albicans in the body and the

methylation of onorganic mercury by candida to the extremely toxic methyl

mercury form which like mercury vapor crosses the blood-brain barrier and

also damages and weakens the immune system. "

" Mercury causes singnficant destruction of stomach and intestine

epithelial cells, resulting indamage to stomach lining whichalong with

mercury's ability to bind to SH hydroxyl radical in cell membranes alters

permeability and adversely alters bacterial populations in theintestines

causing leaky gut syndrome with toxic, incompletely digested complexes in

the blood and accumulation of heliobacter pylori, a suspected major factor

instomach ulcers and stomach cancer and candida albicans, as well as poor

nutrient absorption. "

I think almost all of us can see at least a part of ourselves described

in these quotes. The website is 68 pages long and continues by adding the

importance of chelation with amalgam removal stating that it means the

difference between 86% recovery rate and only 16 % recovery rate.

I am in the process of having the mercury taken out of my mouth. I'm

aware that it could be months before I see any substantial improvement due

to the time it takes to chelate the stuff out of your body, and to the

temporary increased exposure due to the removal process itself. I'll keep

you informed.

The continued use of antibiotcs treating the multiple infections we tend

to get just exacerbates the problem. Both our bodies and the bacteria

become resistant setting us up for even worse symptoms. It's time for

doctors to stop putting temporary bandaids over these chronic problems and

start asking the question, " why are these people getting these mutliple

infections in the first place? Why are their immune systems impaired? "

Antibiotics (although somtimes necessary) are not solving the problem and

in most cases only add to the problem. Be aware of doctors that only

treat symptom by symptom - bandaid to bandaid - without getting to the

root of the problem in the first place.

[Guest guest]

I did read the whole article. The only specific reference to CFS was the

one you excerpted about candida. But yes, there is much other immune

impact and as we know all that can affect CFS. But I don't like they fact

they solely focused on candida as the problems for CFS.

I never said 5-10% of people with CFS were helped with removal. Where did

you get that? What I said was,

" What it doesn't state, which many people seem to agree on now, is that

only about 5-10% of the people are negatively affected by amalgams. This

can explain why for some people it doesn't make any difference, and why

studies are often inconclusive. "

There is a belief arising in people that study amalgam that 5-10% of the

human population are negatively affected by mercury. That could be all or

a large percentage of the CFIDS people. But some people can have a lot of

mercury and no health problems, and this fact has been used by a lot of

people to say that mercury isn't a problem. If in fact 5-10% of the

people have a problem with it but not the rest, either because of the way

their bodies detox or whatever, that should help a lot of the population

understand that yes, it can cause a lot of problems for some people. I

am too sick to find the exact references. I am on a couple amalgam lists

and read a lot of research.

Cindi

" Tania & " <fe38@...>

06/01/01 02:12 PM

Please respond to

cc:

Subject: Re: Digest Number 1841

You may want to read the whole article. What I typed in was just that -

excerpts. The article in no way states that the only problem with

amalgams is yeast. Quite to the contrary, it goes on for several pages

about the multiple problems amalgams cause. I repeat, I only typed

excerpts that I thought most pertained to many people suffering with CFS.

You're right, there are many differing views on how best to chelate

mercury from one's body. The best that one can hope for is to find a

doctor that is knowledgeable in this field, and that has experienced

successes without harming anyone. I agree that you definitely have to

know what you're doing (or the doctor does) in order to do this safely.

I'm not sure where you get the 5-10% of people with CFS being helped

with amalgam removal. There's not enough information in those numbers.

For example, how were the amalgams removed? Were there safety measures

taken? Did the people cited in these numbers undergo chelation? If so,

how qualified were the doctors supervising the chelation process? Who is

the source that only 5-10% recover? Too many unknowns to just accept

these numbers blindly.

I'm not saying that this will help everyone. However, I do believe that

it certainly bears looking into. Especially when mercury toxicity has

been proven to cause sooooo many of the symptoms described by ppl with

illnesses like CFS.

I also don't mean to imply that people think that antibiotics are a

solution to CFS. I think that people understand that CFS if a complicated

illness with many factors involved. I simply want to verbalize my concern

about taking too many antibiotics to temporarily ameliorate symptoms

without challenging doctors to treat the reason why one's immune system

isn't working in the first place. I believe this illness can be abated

once the ROOT of the problem is discovered, not by treating mere symptoms.

[Guest guest]

I wonder if we're even talking about the same article or if our perceptions are

just dramatically different. Anyway, that's what these groups are all about -

trying to get different people's perspectives and experiences.

Re: Digest Number 1841

You may want to read the whole article. What I typed in was just that -

excerpts. The article in no way states that the only problem with

amalgams is yeast. Quite to the contrary, it goes on for several pages

about the multiple problems amalgams cause. I repeat, I only typed

excerpts that I thought most pertained to many people suffering with CFS.

You're right, there are many differing views on how best to chelate

mercury from one's body. The best that one can hope for is to find a

doctor that is knowledgeable in this field, and that has experienced

successes without harming anyone. I agree that you definitely have to

know what you're doing (or the doctor does) in order to do this safely.

I'm not sure where you get the 5-10% of people with CFS being helped

with amalgam removal. There's not enough information in those numbers.

For example, how were the amalgams removed? Were there safety measures

taken? Did the people cited in these numbers undergo chelation? If so,

how qualified were the doctors supervising the chelation process? Who is

the source that only 5-10% recover? Too many unknowns to just accept

these numbers blindly.

I'm not saying that this will help everyone. However, I do believe that

it certainly bears looking into. Especially when mercury toxicity has

been proven to cause sooooo many of the symptoms described by ppl with

illnesses like CFS.

I also don't mean to imply that people think that antibiotics are a

solution to CFS. I think that people understand that CFS if a complicated

illness with many factors involved. I simply want to verbalize my concern

about taking too many antibiotics to temporarily ameliorate symptoms

without challenging doctors to treat the reason why one's immune system

isn't working in the first place. I believe this illness can be abated

once the ROOT of the problem is discovered, not by treating mere symptoms.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/8/01 11:04:32 AM Pacific Standard Time, twr59@... writes:

Only you guys understand and I'm grateful for that. Take care,

True -- it is hard to understand if you haven't experienced anything like it. It's hard to understand even if you have! I'm just beginning to get a handle on it! The first thing to remember is that you, and only you, can be trusted with your life. This is very hard to do when you don't feel well. Having someone to help means a lot. Good luck.

Harper

[Guest guest]

Thanks to Harper, Debby, Rosemary and everyone for

giving me some support during this rough period. It

seems I go for a long time and try not to worry, but

when other things in my life are complicated, I start

thinking about this Godforsaken disease and it makes me

feel twice as worse.

I had a check up yesterday with my doc. Told him I was

having upper quadrant pain and nose bleeds. Of course

he said it was all part of the disease, even though when

he measured my liver, it was not enlarged. He did say I

have to have another biopsy on Nov. 28th just to see if

there is anymore scarring. I had moderate scarring the

first biopsy 2 yrs ago. I also told him how stressed my

life is right now and he said I must not let myself get

this way or I'll have a relapse. The last thing I want

is a relapse. But, it's hard to relax when everything

around you seems to be falling apart.

I guess ya'll can tell I'm still somewhat depressed, but

I'm going to try to help myself, I'm visiting with a

minister at my church this evening to sort of get some

guidance on how to control my stress level. It would

help so much more if spouse would take into

consideration how stress can make me sick.

Thanks again for the kind words. Only you guys

understand and I'm grateful for that. Take care,

in LA AIH 99'

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/12/2002 8:51:43 AM Central Daylight Time,

writes:

<<

I am confused about what you all know of PECS. It is a very strict way of

teaching the Picture Exchange Communication System. I know I could not have

done it without training from someone directly trained by PECS people.

Reading the PECS book was not enought to get it. When I observed the PECS

training it took two adults and one child for stage one (no body language

clues). I am by no means an expert but there are many teachers doing it

wrong. When I hired a PECS trained home therapist she taught me many things.

It took many months for Rochelle to understand the system but it was only

being taught once a week at school. But, her Speech teacher knew what she

was

doing. It may go faster the more you use it. After Stage one is mastered it

is not so important to have PECS trained teachers. After your child

understands he/she will get what she wants if they choose the right picture

then you start teaching the pictures and discrimination. Motivation was the

key for us. What will motivate your child. I'll tell you it was ice cream or

mustard for us to get stage two. This took forever. Now we bring one new

picture with old pictures she knows and work from there. But she learned

stage one with bits of graham crackers for every right answer. We have yet

to

learn traveling. This is when your child goes and gets the picture and hands

it to you. Wouldn't that be great!

I hope this makes sense to you all. I am still learning so forgive me if I

am

being to general about what I understand the system to be. There are other

picture sytems but they are not PECS. I am really just trying to help, I

hope

I didn't confuse you all more. We haven't even touched on schedules yet. I

do

want the school to start visual schedules. I have no idea how to do it or

how

it will go.

Diane >>

Diane,

From what I hear from other parents that have been successful with true PECS

you are very lucky that Rochelle gets it with so few repetitions per week. I

know families that work at doing the first step many times a day.

I think it is unfortunate that so many techniques are so watered down or

changed by people that say they are trained that families and kids are

getting ripped off. You are fortunate to have someone that knows what they

are doing.

Off my soapbox,

Karyn

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/12/02 11:03:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

KVanRyzin@... writes:

> I think it is unfortunate that so many techniques are so watered down or

> changed by people that say they are trained that families and kids are

> getting ripped off. You are fortunate to have someone that knows what they

> are doing.

>

Karyn, unfortunately this year I have no idea what the teachers know and will

soon find out Wed. I was lucky to get that home therapist. She now got a job

with another school system. She really had a heart for the kids and didn't

charge much. $22.00 for hour. That is cheap around here!! She taught me alot

and we just used her over the summer months. You can get on your soapbox

anytime Karyn. I do it all the time. It's cause you care.

Diane

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/12/2004 9:30:47 AM Eastern Standard Time,

writes:

An aggressive natural treatment when you don't have much time.

Hello All!

I am new to this forum and have been enjoying reading the

postings. Thank you to all who have contributed such beneficial

information. Now I would like to just mention a treatment I

personally have found to be quite effective in stopping cancer dead

in it's tracks. It involves taking a combination of supplements

geared toward flooding the body with O2, also alkalizing it heavily,

and destroying the cancer cells. The protocal is outlined in the

book THE CALCIUM FACTOR. The list of supplements includes cesium

chloride which is one of the most caustic mineral salts known to man

(it is an EXTREME alkalixer). And, as you probably know cancer will

die when the extracellular fluids are alkaline. Anyway, the protocal

also uses DMSO to deposit more deeply the cesium into the

bloodstream, the bones, etc. After application dermally, the DMSO

enters the bloodstream within 5 minutes, and the bones within 15

minutes! Now you can understand why it is so effective in carrying

the cesium into the system. Just be prepared for the short-term burn

on your skin--a small price to pay for a cure. Also, make sure and

add potassium to your supplement regimen--very important to avoid

any problems with the cesium. Good Luck! Oh, by the way, the book

was written by Bob Barefoot and Dr. Carl Reich. Take care-

Hi ,

No offense meant, because I am sure you are trying to help, but I want to

let you know that although that book says that you will be cured in 30 days, it

is not very likely. It is always possible, I suppose, but I have been

working with cesium with my clients for years, and it just doesn't happen the

way

that book says it happens. I have worked with hundreds of people, and

although many people have been happy with the results, I have not often seen it

happen like that.

The reason I say this, is that I get calls from very many people who have

read the book, and followed the instructions, and have problems, and need help.

Most are devastated that they are not cured in 30 days.

You also have to be very careful with cesium, and it is not as simple as

just taking it. Many have side effects with the cesium. Many have problems

with

the potassium. Too much or too little potassium can be lethal. You really

have to know what you are doing. Also, cesium is not a magic bullet. There

are so many other things that a person needs to do, to improve their chances

of getting good results.

Barb

RN, Health and Wellness Consultant

*************************************

Energy technology products, help for sleep & discomfort

Energized air treatment, w/ 5 filtering technologies

Energized Water to oxygenate & alkalize, w/ coral calcium

Packaged whole foods that are organic, non-GMO and macrobiotic

Natural whole food dietary supplements

Weighted exercise shoes - increase metabolism, burn calories, tone

Rife technology, rebounders, Transfer Factor Plus

whole colostrum, cesium, T-Plus Aloe (pp. 429-231 in " Politics in Healing " )

Natural & non chemical makeup, shampoo, cleansers

**************************************

[Guest guest]

Bob Barefoot has no credentials and was hauled before the Federal Trade

Commission (I think) for advertising cures with coral calcium. I don't

recall what they did with him but at least they shut down his advertising.

Vast quantities of coral calcium (calcium carbonate) were seized from

vendors. It was a multi-level marketing scam peddling a relatively

ineffective form of calcium at a high price. My Okinawan girlfriend doesn't

buy the long life stuff he raved about..

Be cautious. Somebody is always ready to separate you from your money.

Loren

Re: [ ] Digest Number 1841

> In a message dated 9/12/2004 9:30:47 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> writes:

>

> An aggressive natural treatment when you don't have much time.

>

> Hello All!

> I am new to this forum and have been enjoying reading the

> postings. Thank you to all who have contributed such beneficial

> information. Now I would like to just mention a treatment I

> personally have found to be quite effective in stopping cancer dead

> in it's tracks. It involves taking a combination of supplements

> geared toward flooding the body with O2, also alkalizing it heavily,

> and destroying the cancer cells. The protocal is outlined in the

> book THE CALCIUM FACTOR. The list of supplements includes cesium

> chloride which is one of the most caustic mineral salts known to man

> (it is an EXTREME alkalixer). And, as you probably know cancer will

> die when the extracellular fluids are alkaline. Anyway, the protocal

> also uses DMSO to deposit more deeply the cesium into the

> bloodstream, the bones, etc. After application dermally, the DMSO

> enters the bloodstream within 5 minutes, and the bones within 15

> minutes! Now you can understand why it is so effective in carrying

> the cesium into the system. Just be prepared for the short-term burn

> on your skin--a small price to pay for a cure. Also, make sure and

> add potassium to your supplement regimen--very important to avoid

> any problems with the cesium. Good Luck! Oh, by the way, the book

> was written by Bob Barefoot and Dr. Carl Reich. Take care-

>

> Hi ,

>

> No offense meant, because I am sure you are trying to help, but I want to

> let you know that although that book says that you will be cured in 30

days, it

> is not very likely. It is always possible, I suppose, but I have been

> working with cesium with my clients for years, and it just doesn't happen

the way

> that book says it happens. I have worked with hundreds of people, and

> although many people have been happy with the results, I have not often

seen it

> happen like that.

>

> The reason I say this, is that I get calls from very many people who have

> read the book, and followed the instructions, and have problems, and need

help.

> Most are devastated that they are not cured in 30 days.

>

> You also have to be very careful with cesium, and it is not as simple as

> just taking it. Many have side effects with the cesium. Many have

problems with

> the potassium. Too much or too little potassium can be lethal. You

really

> have to know what you are doing. Also, cesium is not a magic bullet.

There

> are so many other things that a person needs to do, to improve their

chances

> of getting good results.

>

> Barb

> RN, Health and Wellness Consultant

> *************************************

> Energy technology products, help for sleep & discomfort

> Energized air treatment, w/ 5 filtering technologies

> Energized Water to oxygenate & alkalize, w/ coral calcium

> Packaged whole foods that are organic, non-GMO and macrobiotic

> Natural whole food dietary supplements

> Weighted exercise shoes - increase metabolism, burn calories, tone

> Rife technology, rebounders, Transfer Factor Plus

> whole colostrum, cesium, T-Plus Aloe (pp. 429-231 in " Politics in

Healing " )

> Natural & non chemical makeup, shampoo, cleansers

> **************************************

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Barb,

I included the name of the book so that prospective users could investigate

the treatment themselves. I also did not state that a person could be healed in

30 days. I could only talk about my own experience which has been amazing. And,

I also employ several other modalities to treat my cancer such as a macrobiotic

diet in combination with Dr. Budwig's flax oil regimen. I also exercise

regularly,use wheatgrass when I can and avoid all chemicals and stress as much

as possible. I appreciate your feedback Barb. However your credentials as a

nurse and your skepticism re: cesium's abilities makes me wonder why you have

anything to do with www. .com? You also said that your clients are

devastated when their cancer is not gone in 30 days. I am not medically

certified (I wouldn't want to spend my hard-earned $$$ and time learning a trade

that doesn't teach anything about how to heal disease), but common sense tells

me that cancer is fought with every thought, action, and bite of food we put in

our mouth. Maybe your patients that are not healing in a sufficiently expedient

way need more understanding of this. When I had cancer 12 years ago, I chose

Oriental Medicine to study in order to understand what was happening to my body.

I learned to diagnose by studying the face, hair, skin, nails, markings on the

body, location of pain, etc. Also the onset of certain emotions can indicate

weakness in certain organs. Acupuncture was a marvelous tool I employed to

re-establish circulation as blockages were removed. To make a long story short

Barb, if terminally ill patients come to you for a magic bullet for their

illness, and don't do as much as possible for themselves (i.e.-take

responsibility for their own health-what a revolutionary concept. In all

likelihood, this lack of self-responsibility is why they got into the mess

they're in with their health to begin with!), they probably won't get better at

least not in any timely fashion. Fighting cancer AND winning is a 24/7/365

proposal-not an undertaking for the weak who would run to their local MEDICAL

provider looking for a quick cure in the form of a little white pill they can

take home knowing that all they have to do is what the doc said and everything

well be just hunky. It doesn't work like this. Self responsibility and

proactivism is ALL that ever can heal cancer with maybe a little help from a

healthcare provider and a LOT OF SELF-EDUCATION! I admire you for what sounds

like you have been somewhat able to break away from the " allopathic " nightmare,

I encourage you to pursue more and more alternative education. Your patients

will fare better in the long run. Thanks again for your input and, I'll get off

my soapbox now. No offense Barb-- I'm always a little defensive re: medical

people. They usually think they have all the answers when generally they don't

even have a concept of what the question is. It sounds like you are on your way

to at least understanding what the question is (being able to help people

understand alternative thinking re: disease). Keep up the good work!! Take care.

Sincerely,

Re: [ ] Digest Number 1841

Hi ,

No offense meant, because I am sure you are trying to help, but I want to

let you know that although that book says that you will be cured in 30 days,

it is not very likely. It is always possible, I suppose, but I have been

working with cesium with my clients for years, and it just doesn't happen the

way that book says it happens. I have worked with hundreds of people, and

although many people have been happy with the results, I have not often seen

it happen like that.

The reason I say this, is that I get calls from very many people who have

read the book, and followed the instructions, and have problems, and need

help. Most are devastated that they are not cured in 30 days.

You also have to be very careful with cesium, and it is not as simple as

just taking it. Many have side effects with the cesium. Many have problems

with the potassium. Too much or too little potassium can be lethal. You

really

have to know what you are doing. Also, cesium is not a magic bullet. There

are so many other things that a person needs to do, to improve their chances

of getting good results.

Barb

RN, Health and Wellness Consultant

*************************************

Energy technology products, help for sleep & discomfort

Energized air treatment, w/ 5 filtering technologies

Energized Water to oxygenate & alkalize, w/ coral calcium

Packaged whole foods that are organic, non-GMO and macrobiotic

Natural whole food dietary supplements

Weighted exercise shoes - increase metabolism, burn calories, tone

Rife technology, rebounders, Transfer Factor Plus

whole colostrum, cesium, T-Plus Aloe (pp. 429-231 in " Politics in Healing " )

Natural & non chemical makeup, shampoo, cleansers

**************************************

[Guest guest]

Charlie has had a lot of Reiki energy therapy as well as cranialsacral

therapy over many years. Both have benefitted him. He is also trained in Reiki

I.

Just take it slow and gentle and let go of your fear. Fear energy gets

trapped in your physical muscles, etc.

Hope this helps

Charlie's Mom

mjh

n a message dated 5/9/05 5:42:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

writes:

> Message: 8

> Date: Sun, 08 May 2005 21:35:20 -0000

> From: " " <angel_lts@...>

> Subject: Reiki and Craniosacral Massage-Question?

>

> I had a Reiki massage done on friday morning. I also had a slight

> cranialsacral massage just around my head. SHe just cradled my head

> for about 15 minutes.

> That afternoon I was having very strong auras that were almost a

> grand mal. I stopped them with my magnet(VNS). This went on all

> weekend long.

> My question is, Could this have an effect on my seizures? Could this

> have stirred things up? Is this suppose to happen after having one of

> these massages and then things get back to normal again?

> She told me I was unbalance on my left side of my head. Which that is

> where I have my brain issues. I was having some major tingling on my

> left side of the spine. I found it amazing what was happening. It was

> just so strange. I would like to get it done again for I think it

> could help me. But now I am afraid.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

The power is in your hands.

Just say NO.

The school cannot force you to medicate your child. Nor, can a physician.

Find a new doc who is more 'user friendly'.

Charlie's Mom

In a message dated 5/9/05 5:42:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

writes:

> I tell everyone they gave the antiseizure meds to kill my son so then the

> medical and school system would be relieved of the burden of him. I say it

> tongue in cheek but I really am scared they are trying to kill my child. They

> will probably dream up another method to try soon.

>

>

[Guest guest]

She told be I had alot of anxiety. I just realized that I MAY have

left one of my AED in my medication case a day before all this

happened. It got stuck and possible I thought I took it with my other

vitamins. But I am not truely sure. I hope that was the problem.

How is Charlie doing? ANd how are you? Keep your strength up for you

are a very strong women. Thanks so much for you have always been so

helpful to me.

Thanks

>

>

> Charlie has had a lot of Reiki energy therapy as well as cranialsacral

> therapy over many years. Both have benefitted him. He is also

trained in Reiki I.

>

> Just take it slow and gentle and let go of your fear. Fear energy gets

> trapped in your physical muscles, etc.

>

> Hope this helps

> Charlie's Mom

> mjh

>

> n a message dated 5/9/05 5:42:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> writes:

>

> > Message: 8

> > Date: Sun, 08 May 2005 21:35:20 -0000

> > From: " " <angel_lts@y...>

> > Subject: Reiki and Craniosacral Massage-Question?

> >

> > I had a Reiki massage done on friday morning. I also had a slight

> > cranialsacral massage just around my head. SHe just cradled my head

> > for about 15 minutes.

> > That afternoon I was having very strong auras that were almost a

> > grand mal. I stopped them with my magnet(VNS). This went on all

> > weekend long.

> > My question is, Could this have an effect on my seizures? Could this

> > have stirred things up? Is this suppose to happen after having one of

> > these massages and then things get back to normal again?

> > She told me I was unbalance on my left side of my head. Which that is

> > where I have my brain issues. I was having some major tingling on my

> > left side of the spine. I found it amazing what was happening. It was

> > just so strange. I would like to get it done again for I think it

> > could help me. But now I am afraid.

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Loretta, Thanks for replying. have you or anyone

reading this been helped by a physical therapist to

walk better and maybe not drag a leg as much? Or how

bout a chiropracter? Trying anything to help our

situations. Thanks again

--- low dose naltrexone wrote:

> There are 24 messages in this issue.

>

> Topics in this digest:

>

> 1. please send me The Welcome Package...

> From: " ltdnrg " <Ltdnrg@...>

> 2. Re: Hey Hi everyone

> From: " rtee54 " <xltrt@...>

> 3. OFF TOPIC

> From: " lorenzo "

> <clorenzo02@...>

> 4. Re: Hey Hi everyone

> From: " " <pomsaregreat@...>

> 5. RE: Re: Hey Hi everyone

> From: " RaeAndDoug Bower "

> <radbower@...>

> 6. Re: Re:Fibro and LDN

> From: Marg & Tony Senger

> <masenger@...>

> 7. trying to explain the bouncing message for

> 360

> From: " Anri Nadia " <anrinadia@...>

> 8. Re: Hey Hi everyone

> From: " Anri Nadia " <anrinadia@...>

> 9. Re:Fibro and LDN

> From: " dockeydoo " <mccarthycp@...>

> 10. Re: spasticity and walking

> From: LORETTA OLSEN

> <fuzzyfortuna@...>

> 11. Stomach Problems!!

> From: " vjsims63066 "

> <vjsims63066@...>

> 12. RE: spasms

> From: " RaeAndDoug Bower "

> <radbower@...>

> 13. Stomach Problems!!!

> From: " vjsims63066 "

> <vjsims63066@...>

> 14. OT:Power wheelchairs

> From: " oothappam "

> <oothappam@...>

> 15. Re: Stomach Problems!!!

> From: " Aletha Wittmann "

> <Aletha@...>

> 16. Re: OT:Power wheelchairs

> From: " oothappam "

> <oothappam@...>

> 17. RE: OT:Power wheelchairs

> From: " RaeAndDoug Bower "

> <radbower@...>

> 18. Re: OT:Power wheelchairs

> From: " oothappam "

> <oothappam@...>

> 19. Re: OFF TOPIC

> From: noclue915@...

> 20. Re: Re:Fibro and LDN

> From: " oothappam "

> <oothappam@...>

> 21. OT: someone asked about

> From: " Kathy " <kathy.sheehy@...>

> 22. Re: Re:Fibro and LDN

> From: " ANITA PHILLIPS "

> <hacksawpuf@...>

> 23. Re: Re:Fibro and LDN

> From: " oothappam "

> <oothappam@...>

> 24. Re: RemedyFind Multiple Sclerosis Thank You

> From: Ed Rojewski <edroj2@...>

>

>

>

________________________________________________________________________

>

________________________________________________________________________

>

> Message: 1

> Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 11:29:10 -0500

> From: " ltdnrg " <Ltdnrg@...>

> Subject: please send me The Welcome Package...

>

> Hello my name is Lee,

>

> I am using LDN for three months now. Brain fog is

> much better. I am definitely hooked. A friend of

> mine is asking for information and I never got the

> Welcome package to send her. If someone could send

> it out to me I would greatly appreciate it.

>

> Thank you in advance,

> We Have To Keep Spreading the Word.

> Lee

> ltdnrg@...

>

>

>

> a..

>

> ----------

>

> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.

> Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.5.0 - Release

> Date: 12/9/2004

>

>

> [This message contained attachments]

>

>

>

>

________________________________________________________________________

>

________________________________________________________________________

>

> Message: 2

> Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 17:40:30 -0000

> From: " rtee54 " <xltrt@...>

> Subject: Re: Hey Hi everyone

>

>

> >

> > Hi,

> >

> > No, it is not just you on the emails, I am getting

> them too. I

> wonder

> > what we can do to stop it?

> > >

> >

>

> Ignore them.

>

>

>

>

>

>

________________________________________________________________________

>

________________________________________________________________________

>

> Message: 3

> Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 11:09:46 -0800

> From: " lorenzo " <clorenzo02@...>

> Subject: OFF TOPIC

>

> I find that the best information is from others that

> have MS. I have been

> taking 4.5 LDN from Skip's for about 3 yrs. I have

> to say it is wonderful,

> the best thing I have found by far! I wouldn't

> hesitate to recommend it at

> all. A little history: I have had MS since '94 DX

> in '97. Did the Avonex

> (never again) and Copaxone (never again) take

> supplements and LDN now only.

> Still walking although I can relate to those who

> spoke of drunken sailor or

> toy soldier walking. Have good days and some not so

> good. By far, more

> good since the LDN. About 10 days ago a new set of

> symptoms started and I

> need your help. Numbness in rib cage and around

> back, extreme difficulty

> walking, loss of balance and a foot that wants to

> drag. I tripped over the

> hose over a year ago and have lost the ability to

> write and at times the

> hand is very shaky. Had an MRI in Nov. and will

> heal is about 1 year, but

> have been told the handwriting is an MS thing. I

> kind of believe it, just

> odd that it started when I fell. Is there anything

> you can advise? Also

> looking for websites with good info? I'm interested

> in anything related to

> MS, especially Alternative things. Thanks in

> advance. Contact me directly

> if you wish at clorenzo02@...

> ..........................

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger!

> Download today - it's FREE!

>

http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

>

>

>

>

________________________________________________________________________

>

________________________________________________________________________

>

> Message: 4

> Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 19:36:33 -0000

> From: " " <pomsaregreat@...>

> Subject: Re: Hey Hi everyone

>

> I'm getting these also. They come from Sheldon to

> my account inbox.

> It's not a account (meaning my account is not

> a account

> that it came to). It was addressed to me. I

> received two in a row. I

> am wondering if we receive these because we have

> sheldon in our address

> book? Or maybe like when you sign up for 360

> it

=== message truncated ===

[Guest guest]

Anytime you exercise the small nerve fibers wake up the larger ones and vice

versa. Any kind of exercise as long as it is controlled and start out very

slowly. You can work your way up to moderately intense but mser's in general

do not do well with intense exercise. It can create an exacerbation. I have

had remissions that lasted two years and thought I was in the clear but

doing pilates in an overheated room at an intense level set me back and I

just know I can never go there again. You may feel your ms is gone but it is

being managed at best and I am grateful everyday. A PT should be able to

help you. A massage therapist or acupuncturist can as well. Chiros can be a

little evasive but that is just my opinion. Make sure of his or her

reputation before you go for treatments. Best wishes, Kathy

Re: Hey Hi everyone

>>

>> I'm getting these also. They come from Sheldon to

>> my account inbox.

>> It's not a account (meaning my account is not

>> a account

>> that it came to). It was addressed to me. I

>> received two in a row. I

>> am wondering if we receive these because we have

>> sheldon in our address

>> book? Or maybe like when you sign up for 360

>> it

> === message truncated ===

>

>

>

>

>