Re: Rosenshein on testosterone and breast cancer

[Guest guest]

I Just read Beth Rosenshein's book on Preventing Menopause (www.preventmenopause.com) where she discusses the importance of using estrogen in conjunction with testosterone. She references a study done with Rhesus monkeys, and below is a newer published observational study from authors Dimitrakakis et al. on 508 post-meno women from South Australia indicating that adding testosterone (T) to the use of estrogen may be preventative for breast cancer. Madeleen RL Moderator Menopause. 2004 Sep-Oct;11(5):531-5. Comment in: Menopause. 2004 Sep-Oct;11(5):505-7.Breast cancer incidence in

postmenopausal women using testosterone in addition to usual hormone therapy.Dimitrakakis C, RA, Liu A, Bondy CA.Developmental Endocrinology Branch, National Institute of Child Health and Human Development, National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, MD 20892, USA.OBJECTIVE: There is now convincing evidence that usual hormone

therapy for ovarian failure increases the risk for breast cancer. We have previously shown that ovarian androgens normally protect mammary epithelial cells from excessive estrogenic stimulation, and therefore we hypothesized that the addition of testosterone to usual hormone therapy might protect women from breast cancer. DESIGN: This was a retrospective, observational study that followed 508 postmenopausal women receiving testosterone in addition to usual hormone therapy in South Australia. Breast cancer status was ascertained by mammography at the initiation of testosterone treatment and biannually thereafter. The average age at the start of follow-up was 56.4 years, and the mean duration of follow-up was 5.8 years. Breast cancer incidence in this group was compared with that of untreated women and women using usual hormone therapy reported in the medical literature and to age-specific local population rates. RESULTS: There were seven cases of invasive breast cancer in

this population of testosterone users, for an incidence of 238 per 100,000 woman-years. The rate for estrogen/progestin and testosterone users was 293 per 100,000 woman-years--substantially less than women receiving estrogen/pro-gestin in the Women's Health Initiative study (380 per 100,000 woman-years) or in the "Million Women" Study (521 per 100,000 woman-years). The breast cancer rate in our testosterone users was closest to that reported for hormone therapy never-users in the latter study (283 per 100,000 woman-years), and their age-standardized rate was the same as for the general population in South Australia. CONCLUSIONS: These observations suggest that the addition of testosterone to conventional hormone therapy for postmenopausal women does not increase and may indeed reduce the hormone therapy-associated breast cancer risk-thereby returning the incidence to the normal rates observed in the general, untreated population.PMID: 15356405 [PubMed - indexed for

MEDLINE] __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Thanks for this, Madeleen.

I look forward to reading the book. As I recall, testosterone used to be a hormone therapy for breast cancer patients.

It's interesting that the abstract refers to "the usual hormone therapy." Prempro?

Does anybody have access to a PDF version of the full text of the article?

Lynne

[Guest guest]

> I Just read Beth Rosenshein's book on Preventing Menopause

(www.preventmenopause.com) where she discusses the importance of using

estrogen in conjunction with testosterone. She references a study done

with Rhesus monkeys, and below is a newer published observational study

from authors Dimitrakakis et al. on 508 post-meno women from South

Australia indicating that adding testosterone (T) to the use of

estrogen may be preventative for breast cancer.

Here's a bit more on this from life extension.

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2004/apr2004_report_test_01.htm

growth when also exposed to testosterone. A more recent study

published in 2003 also showed that testosterone significantly inhibits

breast cell growth, leading the authors to conclude that "…androgens

[testosterone] may protect against breast cancer, by analogy with

P4 [progesterone] effects upon the uterus."9

Lynn

[Guest guest]

Excellent, Madeleen & Lynn, thank you ladies so much!

That seems to confirm my hunch that not only Testosterone (in my case in the form of SP w/ithout going all the way to DHT!) is analog to P; but (also - at least in my case -) Maca may become analog to covering E needs (hopefully E1 and E2, we can do without the E3!..). (BTW we know that menopause in South American women goes naturally and painlessly because of their (adaptogenic?) use of Maca for any of their potential E and P balancing needs. So what the body seems to need is basic T, from which to make either E or P, probably best when given early in pre-menopause..?)

Also, my doc who in the last 18 months has taken many seminars on the BHRT subject, said awhile ago about my lab numbers, that my "ovaries and adrenals seem to be working somewhat" (after the WP experience and slowly having been weaning from it over 12 months now...)

(During that same time, I have also used homeopathic hGh sublingually for 3 months, along with small doses of E, now I seldom need hGh anymore.)

With all that, I seem to be better off hormonally than I had been before. I had felt "soso okay" with Pregnenolone and DHEA before the WP "ordeal", yet my lab numbers were real low, but now I muscle test better (and without itch) with with Lugols' drops, SP and Maca (and Armour Cortef for extra stress).

I must've coaxed my body into doing some work itself...Maybe it took the WP-shock-effect to awaken my shrivelled-up sex organs again..?

Love,

Charlotte

PS: This only for eventual timely consideration maybe in the future when you feel you might want to try and kick the P- or E-habit .

However, even when I have my lab numbers in hand and they're good (after kicking my flu completely..), I'm only speaking for myself. Dr.Holtorf says lab results are not reliable for "hypos "- but I will still trust them i f they seem to promise enough breast- and uterine protection...

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Re: Rosenshein on testosterone and breast cancer

> I Just read Beth Rosenshein's book on Preventing Menopause (www.preventmenopause.com) where she discusses the importance of using estrogen in conjunction with testosterone. She references a study done with Rhesus monkeys, and below is a newer published observational study from authors Dimitrakakis et al. on 508 post-meno women from South Australia indicating that adding testosterone (T) to the use of estrogen may be preventative for breast cancer.Here's a bit more on this from life extension. http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2004/apr2004_report_test_01.htmgrowth when also exposed to testosterone. A more recent study published in 2003 also showed that testosterone significantly inhibits breast cell growth, leading the authors to conclude that "…androgens [testosterone] may protect against breast cancer, by analogy with P4 [progesterone] effects upon the uterus."9Lynn

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[Guest guest]

Hi Charolette,

Got a few questions...... this is interesting.

> That seems to confirm my hunch that not only Testosterone

(in my case in the form of SP w/ithout going all the way to DHT!) is

analog to P;

What do you mean by SP? Are you saying this form won't turn into DHT for you? Has that been the problems with other forms?

but (also - at least in my case -) Maca may become analog to covering E

needs (hopefully E1 and E2, we can do without the E3!..). (BTW we know

that menopause in South American women goes naturally and painlessly

because of their (adaptogenic?) use of Maca for any of their potential

E and P balancing needs.

Is the Maca working? I

didn't experiment with it very long but it felt more like progesterone

to me than estrogen. Have you found links to S. American women using it

way past menopause? That would be interesting. I think the form of Maca

might also be important. From what I could find it seems to be used

fermented or roasted. I think the raw forms we buy need to be wrong.

Also this sprayed dried form that standardizes the product could have

problems if the process changes the molcules. I don't know...but

couldn't enough on it. So anything you have I'd love to hear more about.

> Also, my doc who in the last 18 months has taken many seminars

on the BHRT subject, said awhile ago about my lab numbers, that my

"ovaries and adrenals seem to be working somewhat" (after the WP

experience and slowly having been weaning from it over 12 months

now...)

Yes mine too seem to be doing the same thing! Wild ...my periods are

now much more regular and I have a fairly heavy fresh bleed the first

day. Still not the period I had in my 30s but not like it was pre-WP.

I'm 52 now. I got on Wiley in Nov. 2004 and stayed on it until spring

2005. My periods just stopped after that. Last fall 2005 periods

started again and have been regular since.

BTW....Rosenshien in, "Preventing Menopause", talks about egg

conservation so that menopause is problonged until 70s. She suggests

using testesterone and inhibin to slow the down the FSH message to

release more than one egg as women age.

> (During that same time, I have also used homeopathic hGh

sublingually for 3 months, along with small doses of E, now I seldom

need hGh anymore.)

What changes do you see that let you know you rarely need the hGh anymore? Where did you get it?

Thanks!

Lynn

[Guest guest]

Hi Lynn,

have been unable to sit at PC - pains in all joints from a fall yesterday. Just "peeping" into my email now, my chiropractor helped a lot...

In this case SP stands for Saw Palmetto herb, which does not convert to DHT (which is also important for aging men for fear of balding too fast... - like Progesterone and DHEA did (only a f t er

the WP-Progesterone shock!).

Maca was quite a bit discussed last year on RL. Among others, 's sisters or daughters (I forgot) were taking it successfully, and wanted to make sure it worked for her and apparently took too much of it ..LOL. Sweet 'Nuimom', had a reaction and understandably got scared....

At that time I viewed some websites (google "Saw Palmetto!") on one, a woman botanic doc or PhD had done prolific studies in South America, and she also collects/sells several of those herbs herself. But several websites mentioned the Soutch American/i.e. Peruvian women never having a problem because they take Maca, which apparently can help the body make/uptake Testosterone from which to make E or P as needed.

I bought the very good NOW brand Maca (instead), using the160mg capsules which tested out best for me and which were easier to dose for women (most men need and use the much higher strengths products). I don't know about the many different ways of manufacturing them, Maca just seems to work for me. They seem to be hormonal adaptogens and I found out that after Maca I did not need my E-drops anymore, that's why I guess they can be used for conversion into E.

However, to make sure whatever testosterone facilitator, including Maca, would n o t end up as DHT, I started taking Saw Palmetto (the only "T-plant" that has that "safe-guard" against DHT I know of !)

Anyway, you can just start with the lowest unit, see how you feel and increase or decrease the dosage.

heereo,

Charlotte

PS: At the risk of sounding ridiculous to people who haven't heard about it: the safest way to test if a product is right for you and how many capsules: it is best to have s.o. muscle test you (i.e. your ND or Chiropractor), or you can use a pendulum, which works like a divining rod.

( Read up on how to use a pendulum on google, although there must be books about it in your library. (It takes a bit of practice/concentration, but a buddy can do the muscle test for you.)

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Re: Rosenshein on testosterone and breast cancer

Hi Charolette,Got a few questions...... this is interesting.> That seems to confirm my hunch that not only Testosterone (in my case in the form of SP w/ithout going all the way to DHT!) is analog to P; What do you mean by SP? Are you saying this form won't turn into DHT for you? Has that been the problems with other forms?but (also - at least in my case -) Maca may become analog to covering E needs (hopefully E1 and E2, we can do without the E3!..). (BTW we know that menopause in South American women goes naturally and painlessly because of their (adaptogenic?) use of Maca for any of their potential E and P balancing needs.Is the Maca working? I didn't experiment with it very long but it felt more like progesterone to me than estrogen. Have you found links to S. American women using it way past menopause? That would be interesting. I think the form of Maca might also be important. From what I could find it seems to be used fermented or roasted. I think the raw forms we buy need to be wrong. Also this sprayed dried form that standardizes the product could have problems if the process changes the molcules. I don't know...but couldn't enough on it. So anything you have I'd love to hear more about.> Also, my doc who in the last 18 months has taken many seminars on the BHRT subject, said awhile ago about my lab numbers, that my "ovaries and adrenals seem to be working somewhat" (after the WP experience and slowly having been weaning from it over 12 months now...) Yes mine too seem to be doing the same thing! Wild ...my periods are now much more regular and I have a fairly heavy fresh bleed the first day. Still not the period I had in my 30s but not like it was pre-WP. I'm 52 now. I got on Wiley in Nov. 2004 and stayed on it until spring 2005. My periods just stopped after that. Last fall 2005 periods started again and have been regular since. BTW....Rosenshien in, "Preventing Menopause", talks about egg conservation so that menopause is problonged until 70s. She suggests using testesterone and inhibin to slow the down the FSH message to release more than one egg as women age. > (During that same time, I have also used homeopathic hGh sublingually for 3 months, along with small doses of E, now I seldom need hGh anymore.)What changes do you see that let you know you rarely need the hGh anymore? Where did you get it?Thanks!Lynn

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.2/356 - Release Date: 6/5/2006