Re: I need a reality check

[Guest guest]

Sylvia,

This is wrong. What is real is that you are not feeling any love from this.

# 1. If the party is at your house then your son has no right to invite his

own 'guilt' guest list. He should get your approval of the guest list

invited to your house.

# 2. You are not the problem. If our beloved others cannot see that she is

the problem, then you are probably surrounded by enablers.

Get yourself out of this awful situation; have the 'party' at 'Micky D's'.

Hugs, Carol

In a message dated 6/14/2006 7:43:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

smhtrain2@... writes:

Hello KO friends,

My grandson's birthday is coming up, and that means a family party

at my house. Since I am no contact with nada, she and dad did not

come to the party last year (although they did a ring and run at the

door and left a present!), they did come the previous year, although

I was NC then also.

My son is going to invite them again this year, and that is okay

with me. Well, that is my issue. I definitely would prefer never

to see nada again. However, my no contact does create some

difficulties for my son and daughter, and I feel badly about that.

I am okay with my children having their own relationship with nada,

and that is why I am 'intellectually' okay with his inviting them.

And I know that they just may not come.

I was just thinking that perhaps I should try to reestablish contact

for some family affairs. And then as I started to imagine spending

time with nada. Well, I just don't want to be with her at all -

period! She isn't a nice person, and as soon as she starts to talk

I get upset. This is from the years of having to listen to her say

mean and cruel or stupid things, and never being allowed to voice my

own opinion. And of course, when I tried, to be totally discredited

by being made to feel wrong and stupid. (Stupid is certainly a

recurring theme!)

I can't imagine a different interaction with nada other than those

we had in the past. The foo still allows her to continue behaving

in the same way, and she is predominately a hermit/waif, so much of

what she does and says is hard to call her on because she will feign

innocence.

My conflicting emotions are that I am feeling a bit selfish because

i have caused this 'problem' within the family, and at the same time

I am feeling that it is not selfish to keep myself away from a

person who was so harmful in the past, and whose presence today

still upsets me. It is frustrating that I am grappling with this,

and my children are affected by it, and nada just goes on her merry

way playing the part of the long suffering parent.

Somebody please, splash me with cold water and tell me to get real.

Getting in contact with nada will just be a repetition of the past.

Sylvia

[Guest guest]

<splashes Sylvia with a bucket of cold ocean water> Girlfriend...listen to

your instincts....(sorry about the water...lol...you asked, though, right?)

First and foremost...you can not allow yourself to feel all this guilt. The

only thing you have done is have RE-action to your nada's poor behavior.

Period...end of story. Remember the addage... " you reap what you sow " ....so

your non-contact with her is a consequence of HER actions.

Consistency is the key...you keeping NC with her has worked...so i'm going

to throw yet another cliche' out there...if it ain't broke...don't muck with

it.

I totally...TOTALLY understand the struggle to allow your grandson to have

his own relationship with her...it is admirable decison to make...but

remember...when you give that inch they always take it as an invitation back

in...and allowing contact now may just confuse EVERYONE.

I'm going to make a suggestion here...i'm not sure how old your grandchild

is...but maybe suggest to him to work out some celebration with them at

THEIR house. I have gone round and round for years being NC with my

mother-in-law....each Christmas I battle the same thing you are going

through now. In the past when I have been grappling with these same issues

I have attempted to try to " be the bigger person " and leave it up to my

children if I invited her to our house on Christmas morning...my thought is

that I can grin and bear it for the sake of them....and for the sake of

Christmas...I mean...how much damage can she do in just a few hours, right?

WRONG! The last time, I put ALL of them on notice (hubby, who is a doormat.

..her hubby...who isn't BPD..he is just a jerk.... and her)...i told her flat

out that I don't want any part of her, and if she is even the slightest bit

nasty I will very RUDELY throw her coat at her and tell her to get the

<expletive deleted> out of my house, never to be invited back. Which of

course ended up being EXACTLY what happened. Since then, we found a better

solution...on the 24th, my husband takes my girls to HER house and drops

them off for a couple of hours and they have their own " christmas time " at

her house. That way, the kids visit her and she gets to have her time with

them....and I can maintain the consistancy of staying NC. As my kids are

getting older(16 and 13) she is beginning to do the same to them as she has

with me, but my kids aren't at the point where they feel NC is necessary

with her. (Since I only allow her VERY limited time with them.) But I have

made it very clear that all they have to do is say the word and I will make

it happen for them. Like I said...i'm not sure this is even an option for

you...but it has been the closest thing to a solution I have been able to

find. The other option is just to tell her flat out that the ding dong,

leave a present, ditch worked best for everyone....and suggest doing that

again.

Hope this helps.

Kisses and Nibbles,

Bunny

-- I need a reality check

Hello KO friends,

My grandson's birthday is coming up, and that means a family party

at my house. Since I am no contact with nada, she and dad did not

come to the party last year (although they did a ring and run at the

door and left a present!), they did come the previous year, although

I was NC then also.

My son is going to invite them again this year, and that is okay

with me. Well, that is my issue. I definitely would prefer never

to see nada again. However, my no contact does create some

difficulties for my son and daughter, and I feel badly about that.

I am okay with my children having their own relationship with nada,

and that is why I am 'intellectually' okay with his inviting them.

And I know that they just may not come.

I was just thinking that perhaps I should try to reestablish contact

for some family affairs. And then as I started to imagine spending

time with nada. Well, I just don't want to be with her at all -

period! She isn't a nice person, and as soon as she starts to talk

I get upset. This is from the years of having to listen to her say

mean and cruel or stupid things, and never being allowed to voice my

own opinion. And of course, when I tried, to be totally discredited

by being made to feel wrong and stupid. (Stupid is certainly a

recurring theme!)

I can't imagine a different interaction with nada other than those

we had in the past. The foo still allows her to continue behaving

in the same way, and she is predominately a hermit/waif, so much of

what she does and says is hard to call her on because she will feign

innocence.

My conflicting emotions are that I am feeling a bit selfish because

i have caused this 'problem' within the family, and at the same time

I am feeling that it is not selfish to keep myself away from a

person who was so harmful in the past, and whose presence today

still upsets me. It is frustrating that I am grappling with this,

and my children are affected by it, and nada just goes on her merry

way playing the part of the long suffering parent.

Somebody please, splash me with cold water and tell me to get real.

Getting in contact with nada will just be a repetition of the past.

Sylvia

[Guest guest]

Sylvia, your nada has created this situation with her bad behavior and

you are just trying to protect yourself from further abuse. It seems

that your children may also be enabling your nada's behavior and that

is also their decision. I think that since you are no contact, it

makes perfect sense that your nada not be invited to any event that is

at your house. It's that time of year where the weather is nice and,

if your children want to invite your nada, they could have a pic-nick

in the park or something--not at your house. You could always attend

too. It's different meeting on neutral ground where you can leave if

someone starts acting badly.

I think that it's great that you don't expect your children to take

sides on this issue and don't care if they have a relationship with

your nada, but that doesn't mean you have to invite her to your house.

There will be other occasions for your children and grandchildren to

spend time with her.

I hope you find a solution that you feel good about.

Trish

>

> Hello KO friends,

>

> My grandson's birthday is coming up, and that means a family party

> at my house. Since I am no contact with nada, she and dad did not

> come to the party last year (although they did a ring and run at the

> door and left a present!), they did come the previous year, although

> I was NC then also.

>

> My son is going to invite them again this year, and that is okay

> with me. Well, that is my issue. I definitely would prefer never

> to see nada again. However, my no contact does create some

> difficulties for my son and daughter, and I feel badly about that.

> I am okay with my children having their own relationship with nada,

> and that is why I am 'intellectually' okay with his inviting them.

> And I know that they just may not come.

>

> I was just thinking that perhaps I should try to reestablish contact

> for some family affairs. And then as I started to imagine spending

> time with nada. Well, I just don't want to be with her at all -

> period! She isn't a nice person, and as soon as she starts to talk

> I get upset. This is from the years of having to listen to her say

> mean and cruel or stupid things, and never being allowed to voice my

> own opinion. And of course, when I tried, to be totally discredited

> by being made to feel wrong and stupid. (Stupid is certainly a

> recurring theme!)

>

> I can't imagine a different interaction with nada other than those

> we had in the past. The foo still allows her to continue behaving

> in the same way, and she is predominately a hermit/waif, so much of

> what she does and says is hard to call her on because she will feign

> innocence.

>

> My conflicting emotions are that I am feeling a bit selfish because

> i have caused this 'problem' within the family, and at the same time

> I am feeling that it is not selfish to keep myself away from a

> person who was so harmful in the past, and whose presence today

> still upsets me. It is frustrating that I am grappling with this,

> and my children are affected by it, and nada just goes on her merry

> way playing the part of the long suffering parent.

>

> Somebody please, splash me with cold water and tell me to get real.

> Getting in contact with nada will just be a repetition of the past.

>

> Sylvia

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Carol. My son did ask if it was okay to invite my parents.

He is living at my house, paying rent, while he saves his extra

money to get his own place. He is really hosting the party,

although I will help him. I was thinking that since he is having

the party, then he should be able to invite whomever. However, I am

wondering if this is a flea - am I playing the martyr like nada

does? Maybe not as overtly, but still....why else would I agree to

this?

My children do understand why I went no contact. But I know they

would like it if I would join the family for holidays. Again, am I

leaning toward the martyr role in trying to find a compromise in

order to grant my children this wish?

Having the party at Mickey D's is sounding good! It will at least

solve the immediate problem. I am not feeling comfortable with why

I am so focused on trying to make life nice for everyone (except

myself). This being 'nice', and making it nice for everyone was

certainly my theory on how I could solve all my problems and change

nada into a happy and loving mother. It didn't work then, and it

isn't going to work now. Hmmmmm, so I guess it is time for a flea

dip?

Sylvia

>

>

> Sylvia,

>

> This is wrong. What is real is that you are not feeling any love

from this.

>

> # 1. If the party is at your house then your son has no right to

invite his

> own 'guilt' guest list. He should get your approval of the guest

list

> invited to your house.

>

> # 2. You are not the problem. If our beloved others cannot see

that she is

> the problem, then you are probably surrounded by enablers.

>

> Get yourself out of this awful situation; have the 'party'

at 'Micky D's'.

> Hugs, Carol

>

>

>

>

> In a message dated 6/14/2006 7:43:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> smhtrain2@... writes:

>

> Hello KO friends,

>

> My grandson's birthday is coming up, and that means a family

party

> at my house. Since I am no contact with nada, she and dad did

not

> come to the party last year (although they did a ring and run at

the

> door and left a present!), they did come the previous year,

although

> I was NC then also.

>

> My son is going to invite them again this year, and that is okay

> with me. Well, that is my issue. I definitely would prefer

never

> to see nada again. However, my no contact does create some

> difficulties for my son and daughter, and I feel badly about

that.

> I am okay with my children having their own relationship with

nada,

> and that is why I am 'intellectually' okay with his inviting

them.

> And I know that they just may not come.

>

> I was just thinking that perhaps I should try to reestablish

contact

> for some family affairs. And then as I started to imagine

spending

> time with nada. Well, I just don't want to be with her at all -

> period! She isn't a nice person, and as soon as she starts to

talk

> I get upset. This is from the years of having to listen to her

say

> mean and cruel or stupid things, and never being allowed to voice

my

> own opinion. And of course, when I tried, to be totally

discredited

> by being made to feel wrong and stupid. (Stupid is certainly a

> recurring theme!)

>

> I can't imagine a different interaction with nada other than

those

> we had in the past. The foo still allows her to continue

behaving

> in the same way, and she is predominately a hermit/waif, so much

of

> what she does and says is hard to call her on because she will

feign

> innocence.

>

> My conflicting emotions are that I am feeling a bit selfish

because

> i have caused this 'problem' within the family, and at the same

time

> I am feeling that it is not selfish to keep myself away from a

> person who was so harmful in the past, and whose presence today

> still upsets me. It is frustrating that I am grappling with

this,

> and my children are affected by it, and nada just goes on her

merry

> way playing the part of the long suffering parent.

>

> Somebody please, splash me with cold water and tell me to get

real.

> Getting in contact with nada will just be a repetition of the

past.

>

> Sylvia

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you Bunny. This was helpful. I needed the reminder that my

actions are a result of what nada did/does. My life is so much

better since I went no contact. I would be foolish to agree to see

her again.

Sylvia

>

>

> <splashes Sylvia with a bucket of cold ocean water>

Girlfriend...listen to

> your instincts....(sorry about the water...lol...you asked,

though, right?)

> First and foremost...you can not allow yourself to feel all this

guilt. The

> only thing you have done is have RE-action to your nada's poor

behavior.

> Period...end of story. Remember the addage... " you reap what you

sow " ....so

> your non-contact with her is a consequence of HER actions.

>

> Consistency is the key...you keeping NC with her has worked...so

i'm going

> to throw yet another cliche' out there...if it ain't broke...don't

muck with

> it.

............

[Guest guest]

Trish,

Thank you for your response. I agree with what you are saying.

Yes, my children probably are doing some enabling, and I was the

role model for that for most of their lives. And although they

understand why I am no contact, they do not have the same emotional

reaction to nada, thank goodness for them. They can easily discount

what she does/says, as they are rarely personally affected by it.

I have found a way out of this. I left my son a message (I am away

from home this week) stating that I changed my mind, and I don't

want him to invite them to my house. This is also my new home, and

I really don't want it tainted by her presence. I will talk with

him in more detail when I get home.

I think some of my old fleas have come back in this situation. I

still get haunted by the feelings of being a bad daughter and trying

to find the right thing to do that will make everything right. My

error in this situation was returning to that mode of response where

I was discounting my feelings and willing to ignore those feelings

to make others happy. And of course, feeling guilty for not wanting

them there at all. (Really would like it if my dad could be there -

but he is a disrag, and won't do anything that nada doesn't allow

him to do.)

I appreciate having this board to turn to, all the responses have

been helpful.

sylvia

> >

> > Hello KO friends,

> >

> > My grandson's birthday is coming up, and that means a family

party

> > at my house. Since I am no contact with nada, she and dad did

not

> > come to the party last year (although they did a ring and run at

the

> > door and left a present!), they did come the previous year,

although

> > I was NC then also.

> >

> > My son is going to invite them again this year, and that is okay

> > with me. Well, that is my issue. I definitely would prefer

never

> > to see nada again. However, my no contact does create some

> > difficulties for my son and daughter, and I feel badly about

that.

> > I am okay with my children having their own relationship with

nada,

> > and that is why I am 'intellectually' okay with his inviting

them.

> > And I know that they just may not come.

> >

> > I was just thinking that perhaps I should try to reestablish

contact

> > for some family affairs. And then as I started to imagine

spending

> > time with nada. Well, I just don't want to be with her at all -

> > period! She isn't a nice person, and as soon as she starts to

talk

> > I get upset. This is from the years of having to listen to her

say

> > mean and cruel or stupid things, and never being allowed to

voice my

> > own opinion. And of course, when I tried, to be totally

discredited

> > by being made to feel wrong and stupid. (Stupid is certainly a

> > recurring theme!)

> >

> > I can't imagine a different interaction with nada other than

those

> > we had in the past. The foo still allows her to continue

behaving

> > in the same way, and she is predominately a hermit/waif, so much

of

> > what she does and says is hard to call her on because she will

feign

> > innocence.

> >

> > My conflicting emotions are that I am feeling a bit selfish

because

> > i have caused this 'problem' within the family, and at the same

time

> > I am feeling that it is not selfish to keep myself away from a

> > person who was so harmful in the past, and whose presence today

> > still upsets me. It is frustrating that I am grappling with

this,

> > and my children are affected by it, and nada just goes on her

merry

> > way playing the part of the long suffering parent.

> >

> > Somebody please, splash me with cold water and tell me to get

real.

> > Getting in contact with nada will just be a repetition of the

past.

> >

> > Sylvia

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks! Yet another learning experience for me. I wasn't aware of

how I was feeling until all of this happened. I still found it

uncomfortable in this situation to do what needed to be done to take

care of myself. Thank goodness for my commitment to this whole

process, or else I might be slipping back into my own enabling

habits.

Sylvia

>

> > Trish,

> >

> > Thank you for your response. I agree with what you are saying.

> > Yes, my children probably are doing some enabling, and I was the

> > role model for that for most of their lives. And although they

> > understand why I am no contact, they do not have the same

emotional

> > reaction to nada, thank goodness for them. They can easily

discount

> > what she does/says, as they are rarely personally affected by

it.

> >

> > I have found a way out of this. I left my son a message (I am

away

> > from home this week) stating that I changed my mind, and I don't

> > want him to invite them to my house. This is also my new home,

and

> > I really don't want it tainted by her presence. I will talk

with

> > him in more detail when I get home.

> >

> > I think some of my old fleas have come back in this situation.

I

> > still get haunted by the feelings of being a bad daughter and

trying

> > to find the right thing to do that will make everything right.

My

> > error in this situation was returning to that mode of response

where

> > I was discounting my feelings and willing to ignore those

feelings

> > to make others happy. And of course, feeling guilty for not

wanting

> > them there at all. (Really would like it if my dad could be

there -

> > but he is a disrag, and won't do anything that nada doesn't

allow

> > him to do.)

> >

> > I appreciate having this board to turn to, all the responses

have

> > been helpful.

> >

> > sylvia

> >

> > ......

[Guest guest]

Sylvia, I read this and I felt like I was unable to respond. I

TOTALY agree with what everybody said. I am glad they were able to

say it. But when I read your post I cried, just to think you are

still dealing with this all these years later? I wondered how does

she do it? I am not sure where I will be 15-20 years down the line

when my kids get married and start thier own family. What if they

get suckered in by nada? then what? I guess I always figured she

would be dead by then, I mean she is always dying from something

right? I just feel so bad and so sorry for you. I just wanted to

tell you I support you. I cant believe that this is happening. I

guess when I read your post I was just shocked and the reality

slapped me. WOW this could be me to down the line so watch how does

she handel it. This was not my time to blab this was my time to

watch and learn because I'm next. And just because I didn't post you

advice doesn't mean I don't care I just don't know what to do. This

one just really got to me. Maybe I should spend more time in the sun

and less time thiking. I have time right? Love Lizzy

>

> Hello KO friends,

>

> My grandson's birthday is coming up, and that means a family party

> at my house. Since I am no contact with nada, she and dad did not

> come to the party last year (although they did a ring and run at

the

> door and left a present!), they did come the previous year,

although

> I was NC then also.

>

> My son is going to invite them again this year, and that is okay

> with me. Well, that is my issue. I definitely would prefer never

> to see nada again. However, my no contact does create some

> difficulties for my son and daughter, and I feel badly about

that.

> I am okay with my children having their own relationship with

nada,

> and that is why I am 'intellectually' okay with his inviting

them.

> And I know that they just may not come.

>

> I was just thinking that perhaps I should try to reestablish

contact

> for some family affairs. And then as I started to imagine

spending

> time with nada. Well, I just don't want to be with her at all -

> period! She isn't a nice person, and as soon as she starts to

talk

> I get upset. This is from the years of having to listen to her

say

> mean and cruel or stupid things, and never being allowed to voice

my

> own opinion. And of course, when I tried, to be totally

discredited

> by being made to feel wrong and stupid. (Stupid is certainly a

> recurring theme!)

>

> I can't imagine a different interaction with nada other than those

> we had in the past. The foo still allows her to continue behaving

> in the same way, and she is predominately a hermit/waif, so much

of

> what she does and says is hard to call her on because she will

feign

> innocence.

>

> My conflicting emotions are that I am feeling a bit selfish

because

> i have caused this 'problem' within the family, and at the same

time

> I am feeling that it is not selfish to keep myself away from a

> person who was so harmful in the past, and whose presence today

> still upsets me. It is frustrating that I am grappling with

this,

> and my children are affected by it, and nada just goes on her

merry

> way playing the part of the long suffering parent.

>

> Somebody please, splash me with cold water and tell me to get

real.

> Getting in contact with nada will just be a repetition of the past.

>

> Sylvia

>

[Guest guest]

Lizzy,

Thank you for your post. I really haven't been doing this that

long - at least I haven't known about BPD for that long. In

September, it will be 3 years that I have been no contact. It was

right before that time that I learned about BPD. The year before I

went NC, I was rare contact.

However, I spent my lifetime before that trying to make

things 'right' with my foo. I spent that lifetime trying to fix

myself too, not knowing that it wasn't me that was broken. I had

many different therapists, but only the last one even hinted that

there might be something seriously wrong with nada. And even with

her, BPD was never mentioned until I found out about it and brought

it up. I am angry about that, because I think that these therapists

just didn't get how tramatic my childhood was. (Although my last

therapist did understand this.) Learning about BPD and its effects

on me - predominantly from this board - has helped me more than all

those years of therapy. I have been able to put together most of

the pieces of me since learning about BPD. It is like that was the

missing puzzle piece - why is all this happening, why is nada the

way she is? BPD answered those questions, and the search was over

and I could go on to finish my healing.

As someone else recently posted, I am now more okay with not being

completely okay. I can accept and love myself the way I am (although

there is still work in this area.) Now when things go wrong, I can

recover more quickly from the negative self talk. Negative self

talk is still a big problem for me, but I can deal with it better

than ever. I see my life more as the journey, and I am more patient

with not knowing all the answers.

I sometimes wonder how different my life would be if I had learned

all of this sooner, if I had gone NC before my children were born,

if they had not had nada as part of their childhood. As is typical

of many nadas, she did not treat them abusively, but there were some

problems, which I was able to deal with. If I could do it over, I

would have gone NC from the time I left the family home. But that

is not the way my life went, so I am not going to spend time

regretting that.

I do agree with your suggestion of spending more time in the sun and

less time thinking. Sometimes the best way to overcome the past is

to enjoy the present and look forward to the future.

Take care,

Sylvia

>

> Sylvia, I read this and I felt like I was unable to respond. I

> TOTALY agree with what everybody said. I am glad they were able to

> say it. But when I read your post I cried, just to think you are

> still dealing with this all these years later? I wondered how does

> she do it? I am not sure where I will be 15-20 years down the line

> when my kids get married and start thier own family. What if they

> get suckered in by nada? then what? I guess I always figured she

> would be dead by then, I mean she is always dying from something

> right? I just feel so bad and so sorry for you. I just wanted to

> tell you I support you. I cant believe that this is happening. I

> guess when I read your post I was just shocked and the reality

> slapped me. WOW this could be me to down the line so watch how

does

> she handel it. This was not my time to blab this was my time to

> watch and learn because I'm next. And just because I didn't post

you

> advice doesn't mean I don't care I just don't know what to do.

This

> one just really got to me. Maybe I should spend more time in the

sun

> and less time thiking. I have time right? Love Lizzy

>

>......