Re: TCM and Oxalates

[Guest guest]

I think Teas listed with high oxalates are due to the caffeine that you see in black teas and some others. Also from the berries. In TCM you won't have any (not guaranteed, I can't vouch for all practitioners out there!) black tea or caffeine prescribed, and we don't really use alot of berries, with the exception of go ji (go qi zi) berries and maybe some Im not thinking of? But something to be remembered is there is a delicate balance in the herbal formulas, so often we will use an extreme herb that in high doses *by itself* would be toxic but in a formula is offset by other herbs to change that, also preparation of an herb affects it's effect as well. So with that theory the concern of high oxalates might not be as strong as if you were giving a glass of berry juice or coffee or beer or chocolate milk.

Another note on the above for those of you looking for a TCM practitioner it is vital with our kids who have serious nutritional issues to find someone who is very very very well trained in herbs. If you are in California then the concern is not as high because we have the hardest board exams with with stringest requirements, you can't be licensed in California without in depth herbal training. I believe Washington also has high requirements. However there are some states that have no herbal requirements and/or licensure. So ask what their training was, don't be afraid, if it wasn't at least three years of intensive herbal studies I'd keep looking. If they don't have a Masters Degree, definately keep looking.

HTH

-- Ormonde, L.Ac.www.AuburnCommunityAcupuncture.com

[Guest guest]

Okay just reviewed the oxalate diet to make sure I was up to date (we don't do it), there are actually a few things that could be in a formula, particularly orange peel, ginger, cinammon. If you are doing this diet, I'd just be sure to let whoever you see know what is off limits so that they can work around that. I would not assume that they would know, give them a list, if you have a very strict diet in place like that then add in something, the gains you would have gotten will likely be negated by the infraction.

I think Teas listed with high oxalates are due to the caffeine that you see in black teas and some others. Also from the berries. In TCM you won't have any (not guaranteed, I can't vouch for all practitioners out there!) black tea or caffeine prescribed, and we don't really use alot of berries, with the exception of go ji (go qi zi) berries and maybe some Im not thinking of? But something to be remembered is there is a delicate balance in the herbal formulas, so often we will use an extreme herb that in high doses *by itself* would be toxic but in a formula is offset by other herbs to change that, also preparation of an herb affects it's effect as well. So with that theory the concern of high oxalates might not be as strong as if you were giving a glass of berry juice or coffee or beer or chocolate milk.

Another note on the above for those of you looking for a TCM practitioner it is vital with our kids who have serious nutritional issues to find someone who is very very very well trained in herbs. If you are in California then the concern is not as high because we have the hardest board exams with with stringest requirements, you can't be licensed in California without in depth herbal training. I believe Washington also has high requirements. However there are some states that have no herbal requirements and/or licensure. So ask what their training was, don't be afraid, if it wasn't at least three years of intensive herbal studies I'd keep looking. If they don't have a Masters Degree, definately keep looking.

HTH

-- Ormonde, L.Ac.www.AuburnCommunityAcupuncture.com

-- Ormonde, L.Ac.www.AuburnCommunityAcupuncture.com

[Guest guest]

- Thanks for your replies. We don't actually do the Low Oxalate

Diet, but my son has an issue with oxalates, and when we give him a

lot of ayurvedic herbs, even if we see improvements from the herbs, he

gets (under-eye) dark circles, etc. I know he has 'stores' of

oxalates- he had issues with eye pain etc. when we gave him Vit. K

(which I found out releases oxalates). I just wanted to be careful

with the quantities of herbs, although we don't do the diet.

The person we were looking at going to does a pulse reading- I thought

perhaps that would indicate what herbs may potentially not work for

DS...? What do you think?

Thanks again!

[Guest guest]

Do you know a good (great) practitioner in Bay Area - preferablyin Marin but East Bay or San Francisco can work too? Also our bioset person said that they are able to work in TCM. Any one know anything about this?Thank you.Dina Tarah, MFT

BE WELL! To: mb12 valtrex From: cariadanam@...Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 10:49:05 -0800Subject: Re: TCM and Oxalates

I think Teas listed with high oxalates are due to the caffeine that you see in black teas and some others. Also from the berries. In TCM you won't have any (not guaranteed, I can't vouch for all practitioners out there!) black tea or caffeine prescribed, and we don't really use alot of berries, with the exception of go ji (go qi zi) berries and maybe some Im not thinking of? But something to be remembered is there is a delicate balance in the herbal formulas, so often we will use an extreme herb that in high doses *by itself* would be toxic but in a formula is offset by other herbs to change that, also preparation of an herb affects it's effect as well. So with that theory the concern of high oxalates might not be as strong as if you were giving a glass of berry juice or coffee or beer or chocolate milk.

Another note on the above for those of you looking for a TCM practitioner it is vital with our kids who have serious nutritional issues to find someone who is very very very well trained in herbs. If you are in California then the concern is not as high because we have the hardest board exams with with stringest requirements, you can't be licensed in California without in depth herbal training. I believe Washington also has high requirements. However there are some states that have no herbal requirements and/or licensure. So ask what their training was, don't be afraid, if it wasn't at least three years of intensive herbal studies I'd keep looking. If they don't have a Masters Degree, definately keep looking.

HTH

-- Ormonde, L.Ac.www.AuburnCommunityAcupuncture.com

Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills. Get your Hotmail® account.

[Guest guest]

Have you tried NoFenol enzymes by Houstons for this? Sounds like it could be a phenol issue.

I would try whatever the herbs are and if you see this reaction start looking for what it might be, the nice thing is that we can usually substitute with a different herb, it might not be exactly the same but is an option.

Pulse is important as is tongue diagnosis. It will help determine his diagnosis. Diagnosis will determine herbs. So indirectly yes it will help with herb choice.

- Thanks for your replies. We don't actually do the Low OxalateDiet, but my son has an issue with oxalates, and when we give him alot of ayurvedic herbs, even if we see improvements from the herbs, he

gets (under-eye) dark circles, etc. I know he has 'stores' ofoxalates- he had issues with eye pain etc. when we gave him Vit. K(which I found out releases oxalates). I just wanted to be carefulwith the quantities of herbs, although we don't do the diet.

The person we were looking at going to does a pulse reading- I thoughtperhaps that would indicate what herbs may potentially not work forDS...? What do you think?Thanks again! -- Ormonde, L.Ac.

www.AuburnCommunityAcupuncture.com

[Guest guest]

Dina,

I'll look into it for you.

Im not sure what Bioset is, but I wouldn't work with anybody who didn't get a Masters Degree in TCM - that is a 4 year program. And I especially wouldn't work with someone who has another health degree (including an MD) and took some dinky weekend/video course in TCM.

Do you know a good (great) practitioner in Bay Area - preferablyin Marin but East Bay or San Francisco can work too? Also our bioset person said that they are able to work in TCM. Any one know anything about this?

Thank you.Dina Tarah, MFT BE WELL!

To: mb12 valtrex From: cariadanam@...Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 10:49:05 -0800

Subject: Re: TCM and Oxalates

I think Teas listed with high oxalates are due to the caffeine that you see in black teas and some others. Also from the berries. In TCM you won't have any (not guaranteed, I can't vouch for all practitioners out there!) black tea or caffeine prescribed, and we don't really use alot of berries, with the exception of go ji (go qi zi) berries and maybe some Im not thinking of? But something to be remembered is there is a delicate balance in the herbal formulas, so often we will use an extreme herb that in high doses *by itself* would be toxic but in a formula is offset by other herbs to change that, also preparation of an herb affects it's effect as well. So with that theory the concern of high oxalates might not be as strong as if you were giving a glass of berry juice or coffee or beer or chocolate milk.

Another note on the above for those of you looking for a TCM practitioner it is vital with our kids who have serious nutritional issues to find someone who is very very very well trained in herbs. If you are in California then the concern is not as high because we have the hardest board exams with with stringest requirements, you can't be licensed in California without in depth herbal training. I believe Washington also has high requirements. However there are some states that have no herbal requirements and/or licensure. So ask what their training was, don't be afraid, if it wasn't at least three years of intensive herbal studies I'd keep looking. If they don't have a Masters Degree, definately keep looking.

HTH

-- Ormonde, L.Ac.www.AuburnCommunityAcupuncture.com

Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills. Get your Hotmail® account.

-- Ormonde, L.Ac.

www.AuburnCommunityAcupuncture.com

[Guest guest]

Thanks . Yes, he does have a phenol issue and he gets No-Fenol.

His OAT results showed the high oxalates, and I do see a difference in

how the oxalates present vs. phenols(re. dark circles).

Re. the kind of education the practitioner has had, would you be

comfortable with someone who has had a traditional education from

China, years of experience, and teaches some formal courses in TCM?

Thanks!

[Guest guest]

Good, you are on the ball! LOL. I know for myself, I wil continue enzymes with my son even when using herbs, but I have seen quite a few people drop off the majority of supplements. I think enzymes are one of those things that should be continued if in use, or started if not.

As for the TCM doc, yes I would probably be comfortable with that. But Im all about the vibe, especially if you are doing in person acupuncture treatments.

Thanks . Yes, he does have a phenol issue and he gets No-Fenol.His OAT results showed the high oxalates, and I do see a difference inhow the oxalates present vs. phenols(re. dark circles). Re. the kind of education the practitioner has had, would you be

comfortable with someone who has had a traditional education fromChina, years of experience, and teaches some formal courses in TCM?Thanks! -- Ormonde, L.Ac.

www.AuburnCommunityAcupuncture.com

[Guest guest]

These were one of the things that I questioned Dr. Peng on when we started his herbs, and he said that he would put something in there to help "chew" the food, so I discontinued the enzymes. But I think I will start them back up b/c I took in the latest batch to my local acupunturist, and he didn't see anything in there to digest her food. Maybe Dr. Peng put itin our first batch of herbs but neglected to in the second. Thanks for menionin this,

Thanks . Yes, he does have a phenol issue and he gets No-Fenol.His OAT results showed the high oxalates, and I do see a difference inhow the oxalates present vs. phenols(re. dark circles). Re. the kind of education the practitioner has had, would you becomfortable with someone who has had a traditional education fromChina, years of experience, and teaches some formal courses in TCM?Thanks!-- Ormonde, L.Ac.www.AuburnCommunity Acupuncture. com

[Guest guest]

At one point I thought my son had phenol and oxalate issues also and

you know what has helped? Amla. It's good for all kinds of things.

http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?pid=4458

You can find out a lot about it by doing a Google

search " Phyllanthus " . The specific scientific name is " Phyllanthus

Emblica " .

One of the related plants, " Phyllanthus Niruri " , is called " stone

breaker " because of its actions on kidney stones/crystals. I have

not found the need to buy this one.

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/stone+breaker

http://anthrome.wordpress.com/2008/08/26/euphorbiaceae-phyllanthus-

niruri-amarus-stonebreaker-chanca-piedra/

http://www.herbs2000.com/herbs/herbs_phyllanthus.htm

>

> I have a 4yo and had a quick question for parents who are using TCM

> herbs for their kids. Did any of your kids have an oxalate issue

when

> you added TCM to their protocol? How did the herbs affect the high

> oxalate issues?

> We were planning on going to a practitioner, but I was just thinking

> maybe this is not for a kid with high oxalates...? Or does the child

> improve enough to be able to detox the oxalates?

> Thanks much in advance!

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you!Dina Tarah, MFT

BE WELL! To: mb12 valtrex From: cariadanam@...Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 11:36:52 -0800Subject: Re: TCM and Oxalates

Dina,

I'll look into it for you.

Im not sure what Bioset is, but I wouldn't work with anybody who didn't get a Masters Degree in TCM - that is a 4 year program. And I especially wouldn't work with someone who has another health degree (including an MD) and took some dinky weekend/video course in TCM.

On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Dina Tarah <dina.tarahhotmail> wrote:

Do you know a good (great) practitioner in Bay Area - preferablyin Marin but East Bay or San Francisco can work too? Also our bioset person said that they are able to work in TCM. Any one know anything about this?

Thank you.Dina Tarah, MFT BE WELL!

To: mb12 valtrex From: cariadanamgmailDate: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 10:49:05 -0800

Subject: Re: TCM and Oxalates

I think Teas listed with high oxalates are due to the caffeine that you see in black teas and some others. Also from the berries. In TCM you won't have any (not guaranteed, I can't vouch for all practitioners out there!) black tea or caffeine prescribed, and we don't really use alot of berries, with the exception of go ji (go qi zi) berries and maybe some Im not thinking of? But something to be remembered is there is a delicate balance in the herbal formulas, so often we will use an extreme herb that in high doses *by itself* would be toxic but in a formula is offset by other herbs to change that, also preparation of an herb affects it's effect as well. So with that theory the concern of high oxalates might not be as strong as if you were giving a glass of berry juice or coffee or beer or chocolate milk.

Another note on the above for those of you looking for a TCM practitioner it is vital with our kids who have serious nutritional issues to find someone who is very very very well trained in herbs. If you are in California then the concern is not as high because we have the hardest board exams with with stringest requirements, you can't be licensed in California without in depth herbal training. I believe Washington also has high requirements. However there are some states that have no herbal requirements and/or licensure. So ask what their training was, don't be afraid, if it wasn't at least three years of intensive herbal studies I'd keep looking. If they don't have a Masters Degree, definately keep looking.

HTH

-- Ormonde, L.Ac.www.AuburnCommunityAcupuncture.com

Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills. Get your Hotmail® account.

-- Ormonde, L.Ac.

www.AuburnCommunityAcupuncture.com

Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills. Get your Hotmail® account.

[Guest guest]

Thanks. Amalaki was one of the ayurvedic herbs I was using, but I'm

not sure which one (if at all) caused some of DS's symptoms. I'll

probably bring it back. The second herb you linked to is used in India

to treat jaundice, and in general, as a liver 'tonic'- I wonder if it

would be useful in other hepatitis related issues with our kids.

Thanks again.

> >

> > I have a 4yo and had a quick question for parents who are using TCM

> > herbs for their kids. Did any of your kids have an oxalate issue

> when

> > you added TCM to their protocol? How did the herbs affect the high

> > oxalate issues?

> > We were planning on going to a practitioner, but I was just thinking

> > maybe this is not for a kid with high oxalates...? Or does the child

> > improve enough to be able to detox the oxalates?

> > Thanks much in advance!

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks ! I found out that this practitioner uses pre-made

formulas/ combinations of herbs and does not really put together whole

herbs based on the complaint. He apparently has numerous such combos,

so he tailors the package of combos (sorry- its late and I'm meandering).

>

> > Thanks . Yes, he does have a phenol issue and he gets No-Fenol.

> > His OAT results showed the high oxalates, and I do see a difference in

> > how the oxalates present vs. phenols(re. dark circles).

> > Re. the kind of education the practitioner has had, would you be

> > comfortable with someone who has had a traditional education from

> > China, years of experience, and teaches some formal courses in TCM?

> >

> > Thanks!

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> Ormonde, L.Ac.

> www.AuburnCommunityAcupuncture.com

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks and ! We went to this doc, and he spoke with me, did

a pulse and tongue check, and gave us three pills- for liver and

pancreas function, and one for 'water metabolism' (?). I do get a good

vibe - I've now come to go by that- so I'm going to sincerely try

this. Only thing is, and different from the other docs talked of here,

he wants me to stop everything else, and just do this. What do you

think? I had cut back on the supps. post his crazy Diflucan side

effects (I think the Difl. worked but threw up more bacteria-he has

every possible variety), so it should be relatively easy to give it a

shot.

[Guest guest]

Patty - you can try www.acufinder.com it is the most comprehensive, without word of mouth referrals there is no way to know, you know? I can post to a TCM list and see if someone responds?

All GFCF - well there seems to be a few practitioners taking people off supps, I personally wouldn't, just because then I can't tell what is going on if issues are coming from herbs, the sudden lack of supps, etc I would rather keep the system as noursihed as possible, start the herbs, see the response, eventually the body won't need both and we would start cutting back the supps, then the herbs. When supps are no longer needed they often will create the very symptoms you started taking them for or if this doesn't happen then once I felt the person looked healthy from all diagnositc stand points, I would just start decreasing supps and see what happens. But that is my initial stand point, maybe he has a reason I am not aware of. Maybe during the study I might change my mind on this, but somebody would have to do some serious convincing.