Re: Mother extremely needy, depressed, demanding, angry---need advice, please

March 15, 2006

Hi ,

I am not sure how much advice I have for you. I didn't learn about

bpd until after I had essentially began nc. Like you mentioned - I

actually had to move and unlist my telephone number to get away. She

knows which city I live in but there are several million people here

and it would be very difficult for her to find me.

I think you need to sort out who you are and where you are in all

this. Therapy, books, this group or others... If your mother is bpd

she won't change and you will need to learn how to set boundaries.

Unfortunately that could be as difficult as going nc. It is why I

chose no contact, myself. My nada would never live by any rules I put

out for her (she was a 4-5 times a day caller) and anything other than

a full-stop on our relationship wouldn't work.

I wish I had words of wisdom for you. It is a rough road ahead.

Anytime a KO takes a step in a direction that is healthy our nadas

situation seems to escalate things with out foo.

My doctor always said I have two choices. Do nothing and live with

the way things are (not fun but at least I know what the outcome is

likely to be - more of the same). Or do something - limitations on

relationship/nc or whatever. Again a whole new set of consequences

that can be equally difficult. You really just have to choose what

you can live with. There are possitive and negative consequences to

whatever you decide to do.

>

> Dear group members,

>

> I am a newbie here. I have been reading the posts for about 2 weeks

now,

> and I have found it really helpful to read about others having similar

> experiences.

>

> If you don't mind, I thought I would describe my situation and see

if anyone

> can offer me some practical advice, coping mechanisms, etc. My main

problem

> in my life has always been, and continues to be (even now, when I am

40

> years old), my mother. I don't know if she would be diagnosed as

having

> Borderline Personality Disorder, but she certainly seems to fit many

of the criteria.

> I grew up with her as an only child, and she was a single mother (my

> parents were divorced when I was a baby, and my father lived in

another state).

>

> All during my childhood, my mother was extremely overprotective and

needy.

> She would tell me her problems, fly into rages (often at my father,

but I was

> the one there to hear about it), sometimes slap me, etc. She was very

> needy---she wanted emotional support from me even when I was a

child. SInce I

> have become an adult, she has continued to be very needy and

demanding. She

> tried to guilt me into staying in our home city for college, and

when I did not,

> spent the next 15 years trying to guilt me into moving back to our

home

> city, which I finally did, 8 years ago. Over the past few years,

she has

> developed some chronic health problems (nothing life-threatening,

but uncomfortable),

> and most of our relationship today consists of her complaining to

me about

> her health problems. She expects to talk to me on the phone at

least once a

> day, and she gets angry if I don't call her back right away, etc.

On a fairly

> regular basis, she calls me crying, or telling me that her doctor

is not

> helping her with her health problems, or that her boyfriend is not

being

> supportive, and then she demands that I " do something " to help her.

When I tell her

> that there isn't much I can do about those problems except listen, she

> sometimes flies into a rage over the phone.

>

> Going No Contact is not very realistic for me at this point. I know

from

> experience that if I tried, she would probably leave me 20 or 30

screaming

> messages a day, and might show up at my house, might show up at my

office, and

> might call everyone we know in common to try to convince them to

intervene and

> get me to talk to her. She might also try suicide. (She did try

suicide

> once many years ago, and threatens it fairly regularly). In short,

she would

> make it EXTREMELY traumatic for me to try to go NC. (If I ever

decide to do

> it, I think I will have to move to another state and not leave her

any address

> or phone number---no joke).

>

> So, instead, I am asking your advice about how I can deal with her

in a way

> that essentially keeps her satisfied enough to keep her off my back.

It

> seems that her main demand is that she feel that I am responsive to

her when she

> wants to talk about some problem.

>

> Any advice about how I can set limits, helpful sentences I can use in

> talking to her, etc. would be greatly appreciated.

>

> Thank you in advance,

>

March 15, 2006

Hello , and welcome to WTOAdultChildren. I am tagging onto

's reply because I totally concur with her. I would add

that you shouldn't try to do anything to change your mother -

because if she is BPD - attempts at changing her will be frustrating

and unproductive. Focus on what you want and need (as

explained), and do what is necessary for you. When you change your

behavior or responses, it will cause changes in your mother - but

there is no way to know what those changes might be.

Don't expect to have big changes all at once. In fact, my

experience has been that smaller changes are more effective - and

more lasting.

Good luck to you. Please keep posting and let us know how you are

doing.

Sylvia

> >

> > Dear group members,

> >

> > I am a newbie here. I have been reading the posts for about 2

weeks

> now,

> > and I have found it really helpful to read about others having

similar

> > experiences.

> >

> > If you don't mind, I thought I would describe my situation and

see

> if anyone

> > can offer me some practical advice, coping mechanisms,

etc. .....

March 15, 2006

Welcome , your mother sounds like a lot of the parents people

talk about on this board. I know she sounds like my mother.

I agree with Sylvia and that your mother will probably not

change, however, with the help of a therapist, the book, Stop Walking

on Eggshels and this board, I've been able to set some boundaries that

have made my life much more liveable. I am still in contact with my

nada. I call once a week--for the most part. I never pick up my

phone until I hear who's calling and if it's nada during the week, I

won't return the call until the normal calling time(unless someone is

dead or dying). I have made my visits to her house less frequent and

shorter and I have made some new rules like not riding in the car with

her. Some of these things were surprisingly easy to do and others of

them provoked tantrums and rages--the works. Still, I can say they

were worth it because my quality of life is now much better.

One of the best things I did early on was leave any situation when I

was being raged at or abused either physically or by hanging up the

phone--I also would say quickly, " I am leaving because you are doing

_____. " If you do this, and then refuse to speak to the person until

they are calm and not abusing you, you don't leave the other person

the option of abusing you. They either continue on their rage alone

OR talk to you calmly. It has worked for me, but it was extremely

helpful to have a therapist help me with this. He said my mother

might have BPD when I told him about her behavior--so he was

knowledgable about it at least.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Trish

>

> Dear group members,

>

> I am a newbie here. I have been reading the posts for about 2 weeks

now,

> and I have found it really helpful to read about others having similar

> experiences.

>

> If you don't mind, I thought I would describe my situation and see

if anyone

> can offer me some practical advice, coping mechanisms, etc. My main

problem

> in my life has always been, and continues to be (even now, when I am

40

> years old), my mother. I don't know if she would be diagnosed as

having

> Borderline Personality Disorder, but she certainly seems to fit many

of the criteria.

> I grew up with her as an only child, and she was a single mother (my

> parents were divorced when I was a baby, and my father lived in

another state).

>

> All during my childhood, my mother was extremely overprotective and

needy.

> She would tell me her problems, fly into rages (often at my father,

but I was

> the one there to hear about it), sometimes slap me, etc. She was very

> needy---she wanted emotional support from me even when I was a

child. SInce I

> have become an adult, she has continued to be very needy and

demanding. She

> tried to guilt me into staying in our home city for college, and

when I did not,

> spent the next 15 years trying to guilt me into moving back to our

home

> city, which I finally did, 8 years ago. Over the past few years,

she has

> developed some chronic health problems (nothing life-threatening,

but uncomfortable),

> and most of our relationship today consists of her complaining to

me about

> her health problems. She expects to talk to me on the phone at

least once a

> day, and she gets angry if I don't call her back right away, etc.

On a fairly

> regular basis, she calls me crying, or telling me that her doctor

is not

> helping her with her health problems, or that her boyfriend is not

being

> supportive, and then she demands that I " do something " to help her.

When I tell her

> that there isn't much I can do about those problems except listen, she

> sometimes flies into a rage over the phone.

>

> Going No Contact is not very realistic for me at this point. I know

from

> experience that if I tried, she would probably leave me 20 or 30

screaming

> messages a day, and might show up at my house, might show up at my

office, and

> might call everyone we know in common to try to convince them to

intervene and

> get me to talk to her. She might also try suicide. (She did try

suicide

> once many years ago, and threatens it fairly regularly). In short,

she would

> make it EXTREMELY traumatic for me to try to go NC. (If I ever

decide to do

> it, I think I will have to move to another state and not leave her

any address

> or phone number---no joke).

>

> So, instead, I am asking your advice about how I can deal with her

in a way

> that essentially keeps her satisfied enough to keep her off my back.

It

> seems that her main demand is that she feel that I am responsive to

her when she

> wants to talk about some problem.

>

> Any advice about how I can set limits, helpful sentences I can use in

> talking to her, etc. would be greatly appreciated.

>

> Thank you in advance,

>

March 15, 2006

Hi , welcome to the group. I just had to respond to your

post because my dynamic with my mother is very similar. Single mom,

only child basically since birth spousified (expected to fulfill

emotional needs as if a spouse). I think it's great that you are

here and learning and rearching tactics and plans. My two cents

would be to look at where your fear is, your resistance. This is my

own obstacle in that I know a great deal, but my mother still has

great emotional power over me that I have not been able to break. I

hope one day to be able to, but right now I just don't think I could

handle the rainstorm of fear, obligation, and guilt she would rain

down on me for setting boundaries. Right now I go along to get

along which is very costly to me in the long run. I agree with

tlback that having a therapist to back you up is essential and maybe

if I ever find one that understands BPD mothers I'll be able to break

the stranglehold too. Good luck to you!

sunny

>

> Dear group members,

>

> I am a newbie here. I have been reading the posts for about 2

weeks now,

> and I have found it really helpful to read about others having

similar

> experiences.

>

> If you don't mind, I thought I would describe my situation and see

if anyone

> can offer me some practical advice, coping mechanisms, etc. My

main problem

> in my life has always been, and continues to be (even now, when I

am 40

> years old), my mother. I don't know if she would be diagnosed as

having

> Borderline Personality Disorder, but she certainly seems to fit

many of the criteria.

> I grew up with her as an only child, and she was a single mother

(my

> parents were divorced when I was a baby, and my father lived in

another state).

>

> All during my childhood, my mother was extremely overprotective

and needy.

> She would tell me her problems, fly into rages (often at my

father, but I was

> the one there to hear about it), sometimes slap me, etc. She was

very

> needy---she wanted emotional support from me even when I was a

child. SInce I

> have become an adult, she has continued to be very needy and

demanding. She

> tried to guilt me into staying in our home city for college, and

when I did not,

> spent the next 15 years trying to guilt me into moving back to our

home

> city, which I finally did, 8 years ago. Over the past few years,

she has

> developed some chronic health problems (nothing life-threatening,

but uncomfortable),

> and most of our relationship today consists of her complaining to

me about

> her health problems. She expects to talk to me on the phone at

least once a

> day, and she gets angry if I don't call her back right away, etc.

On a fairly

> regular basis, she calls me crying, or telling me that her doctor

is not

> helping her with her health problems, or that her boyfriend is not

being

> supportive, and then she demands that I " do something " to help

her. When I tell her

> that there isn't much I can do about those problems except listen,

she

> sometimes flies into a rage over the phone.

>

> Going No Contact is not very realistic for me at this point. I

know from

> experience that if I tried, she would probably leave me 20 or 30

screaming

> messages a day, and might show up at my house, might show up at my

office, and

> might call everyone we know in common to try to convince them to

intervene and

> get me to talk to her. She might also try suicide. (She did try

suicide

> once many years ago, and threatens it fairly regularly). In

short, she would

> make it EXTREMELY traumatic for me to try to go NC. (If I ever

decide to do

> it, I think I will have to move to another state and not leave her

any address

> or phone number---no joke).

>

> So, instead, I am asking your advice about how I can deal with her

in a way

> that essentially keeps her satisfied enough to keep her off my

back. It

> seems that her main demand is that she feel that I am responsive to

her when she

> wants to talk about some problem.

>

> Any advice about how I can set limits, helpful sentences I can use

in

> talking to her, etc. would be greatly appreciated.

>

> Thank you in advance,

>

March 15, 2006

Yours is a difficult situation b/c she's got a history of attempted

suicide and has threatened, which I'm assuming is recently? I think

in that case it is best for you to contact some authorities in the

medical profession of psychiatry. I would not take these threats as

bluffs or manipulation tools, even though they are at times w/bps, as

one never knows what they are capable of doing and some bps probably

do get depressed enough to fully follow through- especially as they

age and things get worse, not better. Given her history of

attempting it, I most assuredly would get her professional help. I'm

not sure what state you live in, but I would look up the laws and

consult someone in a hospital about what course of action you can

take to protect her from herself. I know the state of Florida has a

mandatory 'Baker Act' that requires a minimum of three days staying

w/threats like this and then more time if the doctor deems which most

assuredly they would and do in these situations. I suppose it would

depend on the insurance company too. I don't know what your mother's

insurance is, but I would look into that route as well.

I feel for you as I truly believe having a suicidal parent is

probably one of the worst torture methods a bp can use. As a KO and

being manipulated so many times by these incidious parents, you never

know if they are serious or playing the yo-yo game for control. I

tend towards the caution side since you are so involved in her life

and basically her only link to reality from the sounds of it. I

think w/where she's put you psychologically w/screwing w/your life so

much, you would probably feel very bad and guilty if she did indeed

kill herself. (I don't think I would right now w/where I am at w/my

mother/nada, but a few years ago when I was more emeshed, I would've

felt awful).

Boundaries of course are important, but I again would not play around

w/suicide threats. I highly suggest seeing a professional yesterday.

My nada has never been really suicidal, but I attempted it once in

high school when I was more of a bp and living at home. I can say

when people get so low that they even threat, part of them is deadly

serious and want to be taken seriously. Unless you are licensed

psychiatrist, you are not qualified to handle this problem by

yourself, and even if you were, you are too close to the picture. It

would be like operating on yourself if you were an MD. Not that I

truly believe that any KO is qualified to deal w/the plethora of

psychological problems bps project onto their offsprings, I just

think your situation is life and death and therefore in need of

immediate intervention. And I can totally sympathize w/you seeing NC

as not a viable option for you right now. I don't think I would feel

right going NC w/a suicidal parent either though you 100% are

entitled to a life of your own devoid of your mother's neurosis. I

honestly believe in order to get that though your first steps will be

w/professionals and speak to us on follow up here. Again, I take

suicide threats seriously even if she is throwing it out there for

control. You never can tell w/someone whose not a recovering bp w/ a

history of attempting suicide.

best wishes to you and please always feel free to post here any

questions and concerns. I really love the people here and while I'm

not an only child, I am the first born that got all the pressure to

be perfect projected onto them. So many times growing up I was glad

to have a younger sibling to validate the craziness of our mother

though now days he just choses denial. We're not close and so I don't

know which is worse. I think it is hard being in your situation. I'm

kind of glad my brother lives close to nada just so I never have the

option of having to take care of her should anything remotely happen

to her as she is aging.

Kerrie

>

> Dear group members,

>

> I am a newbie here. I have been reading the posts for about 2

weeks now,

> and I have found it really helpful to read about others having

similar

> experiences.

>

> If you don't mind, I thought I would describe my situation and see

if anyone

> can offer me some practical advice, coping mechanisms, etc. My

main problem

> in my life has always been, and continues to be (even now, when I

am 40

> years old), my mother. I don't know if she would be diagnosed as

having

> Borderline Personality Disorder, but she certainly seems to fit

many of the criteria.

> I grew up with her as an only child, and she was a single mother

(my

> parents were divorced when I was a baby, and my father lived in

another state).

>

> All during my childhood, my mother was extremely overprotective

and needy.

> She would tell me her problems, fly into rages (often at my

father, but I was

> the one there to hear about it), sometimes slap me, etc. She was

very

> needy---she wanted emotional support from me even when I was a

child. SInce I

> have become an adult, she has continued to be very needy and

demanding. She

> tried to guilt me into staying in our home city for college, and

when I did not,

> spent the next 15 years trying to guilt me into moving back to our

home

> city, which I finally did, 8 years ago. Over the past few years,

she has

> developed some chronic health problems (nothing life-threatening,

but uncomfortable),

> and most of our relationship today consists of her complaining to

me about

> her health problems. She expects to talk to me on the phone at

least once a

> day, and she gets angry if I don't call her back right away, etc.

On a fairly

> regular basis, she calls me crying, or telling me that her doctor

is not

> helping her with her health problems, or that her boyfriend is not

being

> supportive, and then she demands that I " do something " to help

her. When I tell her

> that there isn't much I can do about those problems except listen,

she

> sometimes flies into a rage over the phone.

>

> Going No Contact is not very realistic for me at this point. I

know from

> experience that if I tried, she would probably leave me 20 or 30

screaming

> messages a day, and might show up at my house, might show up at my

office, and

> might call everyone we know in common to try to convince them to

intervene and

> get me to talk to her. She might also try suicide. (She did try

suicide

> once many years ago, and threatens it fairly regularly). In

short, she would

> make it EXTREMELY traumatic for me to try to go NC. (If I ever

decide to do

> it, I think I will have to move to another state and not leave her

any address

> or phone number---no joke).

>

> So, instead, I am asking your advice about how I can deal with her

in a way

> that essentially keeps her satisfied enough to keep her off my

back. It

> seems that her main demand is that she feel that I am responsive to

her when she

> wants to talk about some problem.

>

> Any advice about how I can set limits, helpful sentences I can use

in

> talking to her, etc. would be greatly appreciated.

>

> Thank you in advance,

>

March 16, 2006

Dear , I can't believe how similar our stories are. I have

an older sister, but our parents divorced when I was an infant and

my father and I are NC b/c he has had a new family for the past 23

years (I am 34) and has chosen to be MIA in our lives. I have so

much to say to you about what I'm learning now - my mother is

actually diagnosed with BPD and bipolar, so she uses that a lot as

an excuse for her behavior. She also threatens suicide DAILY, and

has attempted (albeit 30 years ago or so), but that is nevertheless

an extremely difficult situation for my sister and me.

I just discovered this group and the Stop Walking on Eggshells book

a few weeks ago, and my life has already changed. I am making a few

small boundary-setting moves, and she reacted exactly as I thought.

She depends on me immensely, b/c she been mad at my sister for a

while (she switches back and forth between who is the " good "

daughter), so it is extremely difficult for me to make changes.

However, my new therapist (I am so lucky - she's amazing - in

Nashville, if you're anywhere near I will pass on her name) said

that if my mother is functioning in other areas of her life (she

manages a thrift store), then she must be able to manage in other

areas that she currently expects me and my sister to handle.

So I have put some things back in her lap, and she raged and

attacked and demanded and said horrible horrible things,

including " I will drive my truck in to the next brick wall I see, I

will drive into the next 18-wheeler I see, then you can celebrate

not having a mentally-ill mother in your life! " Of course, I take

these threats very seriously, and I ask her if she really means it,

do I need to call crisis services or the police? She always says

she means it but that she doesn't want me to call anyone. My sis

and I wait anxiously to see what her next step will be.

I have taken a great deal of comfort and advice from the Stop

Walking on Eggshells book. If you haven't read it thoroughly - don't

scan it, actually read it! - I think you will find many ideas about

specific things you can say and do to begin taking your life back.

My doctor also gave me a lot of good advice yesterday about how to

proceed. Many people in this group have already said some of these

things, but to begin with limiting your calls with her to brief

exchanges, not cutting her off but saying " I need to do something

else. Let's talk again tomorrow, " then she will begin to expect your

calls to be shorter. Also, if she attacks you or rages, you can

say, " I understand you are very upset, but it's difficult for me to

understand you or to know how to respond while you're this upset.

Perhaps when you calm down a little we can talk again. I feel this

would be better for both of us. " Then go ahead and say, " I'm going

to hang up now, but I will call you back tomorrow and we can talk

then. " And follow up as promised.

One of the worst things about my mother is that she sees NOTHING

positive in life. NOTHING. And so every single conversation is

about how horrible life is - be it her own life, my sister's, even

mine! There is NEVER a single positive thought that comes out of

her mouth. So after decades of dealing with this - it is impossible

not to be affected by this outlook - I have decided that if she

can't make nice small talk and mention something positive, I am

going to end the conversation quickly. " Well, I just wanted to say

hi. I'll talk to you soon! " I did this last night for the first

time, and I could tell that she was extremely PO'd that we weren't

talking about " serious " things. She has alienated herself from

nearly everyone in her life, so she depends on my sis and me to

listen to her railing. But that is her problem, not mine, and I am

not going to listen to her completely dark nonsense anymore. She

needs to find her own friends, and if she won't see a therapist (she

won't), then I will no longer act this role for her. My doc said

this would help alleviate my feelings of guilt in the long run b/c I

WAS there, I DID check in, I DID make contact, and if she is unhappy

with the content of that contact, that is her issue, not mine.

There is so much more to say, but this is really too long already.

I am making small moves, with a sincere fear that she may follow

through on her suicide threats, but I KNOW that I DESERVE a better

life, and part of the process is giving up the guilt and obligation

I have felt for so long. I hope she makes it, because she is my

only parent left. But if she doesn't, I will know I did everything I

could, and nothing I did really helped, so it wasn't about me after

all. My sis and I have devoted the last 7 or 8 years to helping her

and she has still spiraled out of control, despite our VERY BEST

efforts to help her get back on her feet. So it clearly doesn't

help for us to give her money, fill out job applications, help clean

her house, do other work on her farm, give her suggestions about

improvements, because she has continued to decline. She's 55, and

she sees her life as being over, her dream is over, she will have to

work to live for the rest of her life. But I know that she has made

all these choices that led her here - I didn't - and if she suffers,

it is her own burden to bear. I ache for her - I wish she had a

better life and the pleasures I get to experience, but I know that I

have made my choices and she has made hers, and there is nothing I

can do to fix her problems anymore. My best efforts have failed, so

it's really not doing either of us any good.

Keep writing in and let us know how you're doing. I have learned so

much by reading back through old messages here - I hope you have

some time to do that, too. So many people share our situation in one

way or another, and many of them have been making successful changes

for a long time. I cherish this resource and the advice I have

found in this group. Best of luck!

Leigh

>

> Dear group members,

>

> I am a newbie here. I have been reading the posts for about 2

weeks now,

> and I have found it really helpful to read about others having

similar

> experiences.

>

> If you don't mind, I thought I would describe my situation and see

if anyone

> can offer me some practical advice, coping mechanisms, etc. My

main problem

> in my life has always been, and continues to be (even now, when I

am 40

> years old), my mother. I don't know if she would be diagnosed as

having

> Borderline Personality Disorder, but she certainly seems to fit

many of the criteria.

> I grew up with her as an only child, and she was a single mother

(my

> parents were divorced when I was a baby, and my father lived in

another state).

>

> All during my childhood, my mother was extremely overprotective

and needy.

> She would tell me her problems, fly into rages (often at my

father, but I was

> the one there to hear about it), sometimes slap me, etc. She was

very

> needy---she wanted emotional support from me even when I was a

child. SInce I

> have become an adult, she has continued to be very needy and

demanding. She

> tried to guilt me into staying in our home city for college, and

when I did not,

> spent the next 15 years trying to guilt me into moving back to

our home

> city, which I finally did, 8 years ago. Over the past few years,

she has

> developed some chronic health problems (nothing life-threatening,

but uncomfortable),

> and most of our relationship today consists of her complaining to

me about

> her health problems. She expects to talk to me on the phone at

least once a

> day, and she gets angry if I don't call her back right away, etc.

On a fairly

> regular basis, she calls me crying, or telling me that her doctor

is not

> helping her with her health problems, or that her boyfriend is

not being

> supportive, and then she demands that I " do something " to help

her. When I tell her

> that there isn't much I can do about those problems except

listen, she

> sometimes flies into a rage over the phone.

>

> Going No Contact is not very realistic for me at this point. I

know from

> experience that if I tried, she would probably leave me 20 or 30

screaming

> messages a day, and might show up at my house, might show up at my

office, and

> might call everyone we know in common to try to convince them to

intervene and

> get me to talk to her. She might also try suicide. (She did try

suicide

> once many years ago, and threatens it fairly regularly). In

short, she would

> make it EXTREMELY traumatic for me to try to go NC. (If I ever

decide to do

> it, I think I will have to move to another state and not leave

her any address

> or phone number---no joke).

>

> So, instead, I am asking your advice about how I can deal with her

in a way

> that essentially keeps her satisfied enough to keep her off my

back. It

> seems that her main demand is that she feel that I am responsive

to her when she

> wants to talk about some problem.

>

> Any advice about how I can set limits, helpful sentences I can use

in

> talking to her, etc. would be greatly appreciated.

>

> Thank you in advance,

>

March 16, 2006

>

>One of the worst things about my mother is that she sees NOTHING