Re: Thryroid & Systemic Lymph Node Swelling & Saline Implant

[Guest guest]

Hi Tonjera . . .

Welcome to saline support! . . . You've arrived at an

opportune time . . . the recent discussion has been

heavy with thyroid issues.

I'm not going to add anything because you can get the

technical end from reading recent posts . . . except

to say that, based on what I've observed of women who

have had breast implants is that thryoid issues are

very common . . and often the main issue left after

everything else has been resolved.

For myself, I developed a multi-nodular goiter

(biopsied) while I had implants . . . That has

developed into many more nodules. I was on Synthroid -

didn't seem to be doing anything . . . I went off and

didn't see a difference. However, I sense that

something is wrong because of hair loss, fatigue,

weight, etc. I need to have a thorough workup. My TSH

is 4.5 and my doctor is unconcerned at this point.

Hugs and prayers,

Rogene

--- tonjera6 <tonjera6@...> wrote:

> I had saline breast implants removed August 2005.

> Prior to that, I

> had a lymphatic outbreak, which was entirely

> sytemic. It is in my

> jaw, under my arms, and throughout my body. It is

> comprised of hard,

> ball-like imflammed lymph nodes. Additionally, my

> salivary glands

> are swollen. I believe that the underlying cause is

> the saline

> breast implants that I had for 10 yrs prior

> (1995-2005).

> Additionally, I have had fatigue, night sweats, and

> trouble sleeping.

>

> I have been to numerous doctors, have had numerous

> blood tests for

> CMV, HIV I & II, mononucleosis, etc and nothing has

> turned up. When

> I went for an ultrasound of my neck to look at the

> swollen lymph

> nodes, the radioligist discovered a 1.1 cm nodule on

> my right thyroid.

>

> As I have heard of your studies on breast implant

> pathology, I

> thought that I would try to contact you for further

> investigation of

> this issue as when in doubt, it is sometimes better

> to delay.

>

> My main concern is my health and I do not want to

> undergo an

> operation that will only lead to further problems

> and a lifetime of

> thyroid medications.

>

> I am about to undergo a lobectomy for a thyroid

> lesion found on my

> right nodule. However, even though the pathology

> tests have pointed

> to papillary cancer, I am not 100% convinced that

> this is the problem.

>

> Has anyone had an autoimmune thyroid disorder

> resulting in a cystic

> nodule or nodules? It would be helpful to know if

> there are any other

> incidences of this that could be a result of saline

> implants.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Nodules are quite common with autoimmune thyroid disease. Usually

if the person has Hashi's, the nodules are benign...but it's always

prudent to check out any nodule over 1 or 1.5 cm.

Because of improved diagnostic technigues (like FNA), more papillary

thyroid cancers are being discovered. That doesn't necessarily mean

they should be removed. There is a high incidence of these cancers

found in autopsies...and the folks went all their lives with it.

It's sorta like how prostate cancer is being diagnosed more often

and then overtreated.

So my first question to you would be: do you have Hashimoto's?

If so, and the nodule is less than 1.5...there is no rush..and you

can recheck this in 6 months.

Also...as an alternative to surgery (which will probably mean you're

on thyroid hormone for the rest of your life)...have you looked into

iodine therapy? iodine, of course, is used by thyroid thyroid

gland....but there are studies indicating iodine therapy can shrink

these nodules. Full replacement thyroid hormone can also sometimes

shrink thyroid nodules.

A whole lot depends on your other risk factors as to whether one

should rush into serious surgery....history of radiation for example

or family history of thyroid cancer.

If you're interested in the iodine information...google " Brownstein

+ iodine " ... Brownstein, he also has a book on iodine

treatment.

There are several gals on my thyroid forum who have had suspicious

nodules...they had surgery (lobe removal)...and some had cancer and

some didn't. All, however, were sorry they had the surgery...and

wished they had known about the iodine therapy previously.

If you want to ask any of them...just check in at the Natural

Thyroid Hormones group.

Take care.

Cindi

--- In , " tonjera6 " <tonjera6@...>

wrote:

>

> I had saline breast implants removed August 2005. Prior to that,

I

> had a lymphatic outbreak, which was entirely sytemic. It is in my

> jaw, under my arms, and throughout my body. It is comprised of

hard,

> ball-like imflammed lymph nodes. Additionally, my salivary glands

> are swollen. I believe that the underlying cause is the saline

> breast implants that I had for 10 yrs prior (1995-2005).

> Additionally, I have had fatigue, night sweats, and trouble

sleeping.

>

> I have been to numerous doctors, have had numerous blood tests for

> CMV, HIV I & II, mononucleosis, etc and nothing has turned up.

When

> I went for an ultrasound of my neck to look at the swollen lymph

> nodes, the radioligist discovered a 1.1 cm nodule on my right

thyroid.

>

> As I have heard of your studies on breast implant pathology, I

> thought that I would try to contact you for further investigation

of

> this issue as when in doubt, it is sometimes better to delay.

>

> My main concern is my health and I do not want to undergo an

> operation that will only lead to further problems and a lifetime

of

> thyroid medications.

>

> I am about to undergo a lobectomy for a thyroid lesion found on my

> right nodule. However, even though the pathology tests have

pointed

> to papillary cancer, I am not 100% convinced that this is the

problem.

>

> Has anyone had an autoimmune thyroid disorder resulting in a

cystic

> nodule or nodules? It would be helpful to know if there are any

other

> incidences of this that could be a result of saline implants.

>

[Guest guest]

here is where the iodine group has started collecting info...in

case this might be helpful to you.

http://216.27.161.35/iodine/index.htm

cindi

-- In , " tonjera6 " <tonjera6@...> wrote:

>

> I had saline breast implants removed August 2005.

[Guest guest]

Was your nodule noncancerous?

The doctor's say mine is papillary. However, there is margin for

error and I am suspicious of an autoimmune reaction, which might have

caused the nodule. I guess that I am just mistrustful of doctor's

and the whole compartmentalized set-up of medicine at this point in

time.

Anyone know anything?

>

> For myself, I developed a multi-nodular goiter

> (biopsied) while I had implants . . . That has

> developed into many more nodules. I was on Synthroid -

> didn't seem to be doing anything . . . I went off and

> didn't see a difference. However, I sense that

> something is wrong because of hair loss, fatigue,

> weight, etc. I need to have a thorough workup. My TSH

> is 4.5 and my doctor is unconcerned at this point.

>

> Hugs and prayers,

>

> Rogene

>

>

> --- tonjera6 <tonjera6@...> wrote:

>

> > I had saline breast implants removed August 2005.

> > Prior to that, I

> > had a lymphatic outbreak, which was entirely

> > sytemic. It is in my

> > jaw, under my arms, and throughout my body. It is

> > comprised of hard,

> > ball-like imflammed lymph nodes. Additionally, my

> > salivary glands

> > are swollen. I believe that the underlying cause is

> > the saline

> > breast implants that I had for 10 yrs prior

> > (1995-2005).

> > Additionally, I have had fatigue, night sweats, and

> > trouble sleeping.

> >

> > I have been to numerous doctors, have had numerous

> > blood tests for

> > CMV, HIV I & II, mononucleosis, etc and nothing has

> > turned up. When

> > I went for an ultrasound of my neck to look at the

> > swollen lymph

> > nodes, the radioligist discovered a 1.1 cm nodule on

> > my right thyroid.

> >

> > As I have heard of your studies on breast implant

> > pathology, I

> > thought that I would try to contact you for further

> > investigation of

> > this issue as when in doubt, it is sometimes better

> > to delay.

> >

> > My main concern is my health and I do not want to

> > undergo an

> > operation that will only lead to further problems

> > and a lifetime of

> > thyroid medications.

> >

> > I am about to undergo a lobectomy for a thyroid

> > lesion found on my

> > right nodule. However, even though the pathology

> > tests have pointed

> > to papillary cancer, I am not 100% convinced that

> > this is the problem.

> >

> > Has anyone had an autoimmune thyroid disorder

> > resulting in a cystic

> > nodule or nodules? It would be helpful to know if

> > there are any other

> > incidences of this that could be a result of saline

> > implants.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Were you one who had Hashimoto's?

And that high 4 TSH the doc wasn't treating?

Hashimoto's folks have a higher incidence of thyroid cancer...and it

seems especially so if the Hashi's is not identified and treated

early rather than later.

With family history like that...and a TSH like that..you do need

further good investigation.

You said your brother is doing well on Synthroid. Some folks seem

too...for about 10 years or so. I would encourage him to know all

the symptoms of hypo. Often when we hear folks say they are

doing " well " on a T4 only med, we find they are taking SSRIS,

cholesterol lowering meds, blood pressure meds, etc...actually not

doing " well " ...but taking all sorts of medications for hypo related

problems. Some men, however, do seem to have an easier time...and

this would be they don't have some of the hormonal imbalances that

we can get...although hypo men often do struggle with low

testosterone.

cindi

>

> Cindi,

>

> My brother had thyroid cancer when he was still in his

> thirties . . . He had radiation therapy and has done

> well with Synthroid.

>

> I recently had a thyroid scan . . . No follow-up was

> recommended. I think I need to investigate it further.

>

> Rogene

>

[Guest guest]

My nodule is 1.1 cm and the first fna was suspicious for papillary

cancer, with the second consistant. However, there are some doctors

that will say that it is still uncertain.

I found a doctor, who will just take out half. However, my fear is

that if it is indeed a small occult cancer, then the complications will

never ever end. I have noticed that, as the cancer is multi-focal,

people who had half of their thyroid taken out usually later resort,

within a year or so, to having the remainder taken out, with extensive

radition/rai.

I do not want to go down that road. I agree with you, that the cure

seems to outweigh the benefit. After living with swollen glands for so

long, I wonder if the doctors will start to biopsy me piece by piece

and slowly dissect my individual lymph nodes, labeling each of them as

cancer, until there is nothing left? (Even so, they have assured me

that the lymph node swelling is not cancer, which is a great relief.)

These kinds of thoughts are morbid but this is the reality that I live

in.

I think that after living with this for so long, I can bear a little

piece of cancer in my body. For all I know, it might be an immune

reaction to the silica, which resembles in pattern/clinical findings, a

cancer. This seems to be the trend of doctor's with so many of the

other unidentified illnesses resulting from saline breast implant

removal - everything must be clinically defined.

Does anyone think that this rationale is faulty? If anyone has this

experience, then please let me know. It would help.

>

> Nodules are quite common with autoimmune thyroid disease. Usually

> if the person has Hashi's, the nodules are benign...but it's always

> prudent to check out any nodule over 1 or 1.5 cm.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'm not knowledgeable enough to tell you a whole lot more.

That site is where the iodine group is collecting their

research info....so you might just want to join the " iodine "

group...i bet they have info in their files there.

Here is one more site that shouldn't give you any trouble...that has

some links to some of the Brownstein info.

http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/iodine.htm

The painting on of iodine as a test for iodine deficiency is

controversial from what I've read. Some swear by it, some say the

skin will take up iodine quicky whether you have a deficiency or

not. i'm not sure what Brownstein or the iodine group have to say

about it though.

I've just recently become interested in iodine therapy myself...it's

a bit controversial for Hashi's patients...although the benefits are

real...it's just a very careful balancing act with amounts.

cindi

> > >

> > > I had saline breast implants removed August 2005.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

oh - so they have definitely already identified it?

ok...I don't know a whole lot about this...

but one thing i remember reading about this..is asking for 2nd and

3rd opinions on the pathlogy reports...because of this margin of

error thing...and to not worry about hurting anyone's feelings.

have you read any on this...getting multiple pathology opinions?

of course even with a definitive cancer..of such small size..i'd be

looking for alternative treatments.

cindi

rem

>

> Was your nodule noncancerous?

>

> The doctor's say mine is papillary. However, there is margin for

> error and I am suspicious of an autoimmune reaction, which might

have

> caused the nodule. I guess that I am just mistrustful of doctor's

> and the whole compartmentalized set-up of medicine at this point

in

> time.

[Guest guest]

you are a wise woman...you see how it starts...and how it can end.

yes, first one lobe...then the other lobe....than RAI..and possibly

multiple RAIs...until you're so sick that you will then start paying

thousands of dollars to get well..but you body will have been sadly

compromised by surgeries/radiation...with all systems failing.

Please join Natural thyroid hormones, group...and introduce

yourself..and say Cindi sent you to . She's our expert on

iodine and goes to Dr. Brownstein herself.

there...has had a voice box cancer for years and

years...she treats herself holistically...has had no problems from

the cancer..and both these women will do anything they can to help

you.

cindi

>

> My nodule is 1.1 cm and the first fna was suspicious for papillary

> cancer, with the second consistant. However, there are some

doctors

> that will say that it is still uncertain.

>

> I found a doctor, who will just take out half. However, my fear

is

> that if it is indeed a small occult cancer, then the complications

will

> never ever end. I have noticed that, as the cancer is multi-

focal,

> people who had half of their thyroid taken out usually later

resort,

> within a year or so, to having the remainder taken out, with

extensive

> radition/rai.

>

> I do not want to go down that road. I agree with you, that the

cure

> seems to outweigh the benefit. After living with swollen glands

for so

> long, I wonder if the doctors will start to biopsy me piece by

piece

> and slowly dissect my individual lymph nodes, labeling each of

them as

> cancer, until there is nothing left? (Even so, they have assured

me

> that the lymph node swelling is not cancer, which is a great

relief.)

>

> These kinds of thoughts are morbid but this is the reality that I

live

> in.

>

> I think that after living with this for so long, I can bear a

little

> piece of cancer in my body. For all I know, it might be an immune

> reaction to the silica, which resembles in pattern/clinical

findings, a

> cancer. This seems to be the trend of doctor's with so many of

the

> other unidentified illnesses resulting from saline breast implant

> removal - everything must be clinically defined.

>

> Does anyone think that this rationale is faulty? If anyone has

this

> experience, then please let me know. It would help.

>

>

> >

> > Nodules are quite common with autoimmune thyroid disease.

Usually

> > if the person has Hashi's, the nodules are benign...but it's

always

> > prudent to check out any nodule over 1 or 1.5 cm.

> >

>

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Unfortunately, I already got a second opinion - had the fna done

twice. However, I noticed that they did not check for thyroid

antibodies. So, I am suspicious of the breast implants being a

cause. Can't know for sure. They have to actually take at least

half of the thyroid tissue out in this case and then it is gone

forever. Bad situation and definitely not worth the implants.

> >

> > Was your nodule noncancerous?

> >

> > The doctor's say mine is papillary. However, there is margin for

> > error and I am suspicious of an autoimmune reaction, which might

> have

> > caused the nodule. I guess that I am just mistrustful of

doctor's

> > and the whole compartmentalized set-up of medicine at this point

> in

> > time.

>

[Guest guest]

wow - with that kind of exposure, your brother is probably right.

I totally agree with holistic measures. and even in the case of

many cancers.

A book you might enjoy is Natural Cures by Trudeau. I'm

impressed with his collection of alternative treatments for wellness

as well as the research he's done on the medical/pharmaceutical

industry.

cindi

>

> Cindi,

>

> I don't have a dx YET! . . . I am going to pressure my

> doctor for a further workup with an endo. I have a

> host of tests coming up for my post-cancer appointment

> at UAMS . . . I'd like to get all my care transfered

> to them - they have a Center for Aging that I'd love

> to get signed up with. IMHO, one should be able to

> stay active and productive for many more years than

> most people do - if issues were addressed rather than

> ignored. . . . By addressing, I mean by identifying

> problems and treating them with wholistic measures

> rather than drugs. If their emphasis is on drugs, I'm

> not interested.

>

> My brother is 65 now . . . I don't know which other

> medications he's taking. . . if any.

>

> He believes his thyroid cancer was due to working out

> doors in an area that had considerable fallout during

> the bomb testing days . . . and drinking raw milk

> during that time.

>

> His wife told me that there were three types of cancer

> found in his thyroid.

>

> Rogene

>

[Guest guest]

one other piece of info for you...there is information out there

about low T3 being associated with breast cancer....

in fact one of my aunts who was a classic picture of a Hashimoto's

person had breast cancer back in the 60s. her sister, my mom...we

know did have Hashi's. so i consider low thyroid hormone a big

factor in some breast cancers.

one of the best things you could do to prevent reoccurence is to

make sure your body is healthy of course..and if your thyroid

hormone levels are low (as your TSH indicates), that really needs to

be addressed.

cindi

>

> Check out this information . . . .

> http://www.newstarget.com/015232.html

>

> I'm using this product in an effort to prevent a

> reoccurance of breast cancer. . . As compared with

> prescription meds, it makes one feel better! . . .

>

> I feel as though I'm playing a game of " You Bet Your

> Life " . . . Let's hope it's as good as they say!

>

> Rogene

>

[Guest guest]

well you've done that part right...

but amazing that they don't check for thyroid antibodies...

there are two of them that can diagnose Hashi's:

TPO - thyroid peroxidase

Antithyroglobulin

i'm a bit confused as how explant would change the papillary cancer?

cindi

> > >

> > > Was your nodule noncancerous?

> > >

> > > The doctor's say mine is papillary. However, there is margin

for

> > > error and I am suspicious of an autoimmune reaction, which

might

> > have

> > > caused the nodule. I guess that I am just mistrustful of

> doctor's

> > > and the whole compartmentalized set-up of medicine at this

point

> > in

> > > time.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Here are two articles I'd kept:

Thyroid disorders and breast cancer.

Shering SG, Zbar AP, Moriarty M, et al.

Eur J Cancer Prev. 1996 Dec; 5(6):504-6.

We have investigated the controversial association between diseases

of the thyroid gland and breast carcinoma using methodology which

allows positive exclusion of cases of breast disease from control

groups and the detection of subclinical alterations in thyroid

volume using high resolution ultrasonography, thus addressing the

deficiencies of earlier studies. Whereas the prevalence of

hyperthyroidism and hypothyroidism in patients with breast carcinoma

and in healthy controls without clinical evidence of breast disease

was similar, non-toxic goitre was more than twice as common in the

breast carcinoma patients. Thyroid volumes were also significantly

higher in breast carcinoma patients than in controls; using World

Health Organisation criteria, 45.5% of breast carcinoma patients had

thyroid enlargement compared with only 10.5% of controls. Finally,

antithyroid peroxidase autoantibodies were twice as common in breast

cancer patients than in controls. These findings provide clear

evidence of a relationship between thyroid disease and breast

carcinoma, although the mechanisms underlying this relationship

require further study, future studies of breast cancer risk factors

should therefore include assessment of thyroid function, antibody

status and volume

The thyroid and breast cancer: a significant association?

Smyth PP.

Ann Med. 1997 Jun; 29(3):189-91.

The coincidence of thyroid disorders and breast cancer has long been

a subject of debate. Associations with hyperthyroidism,

hypothyroidism, thyroiditis and nontoxic goitre have been reported.

Although no convincing evidence exists of a causal role for overt

thyroid disease in breast cancer, the preponderance of published

work favours an association with hypothyroidism. Geographical

variations in the incidence of breast cancer have been attributed to

differences in dietary iodine intake and an effect of iodide on the

breast has been postulated. Recent reports have shown a direct

association between thyroid enlargement, as assessed by ultrasound,

and breast cancer. Although the exact mechanism for the demonstrated

association between diseases of the thyroid and breast cancer

remains to be elucidated, there is at least the possibility that the

presence of thyroid abnormalities may influence breast cancer

progression and this alone should stimulate awareness into the

coincidence of the two disorders

cindi

>

> Wow! . . . Low T3 and breast cancer? . . .

> Interesting! . . . I'll definitely bring it up with

> the oncologist at UAMS . . . They're a research center

> and may be interested - on the other hand??? We'll

> see!

>

> Can you point me to the low T3/breast cancer

> connection?

>

> Hugs,

>

> Rogene

>

[Guest guest]

yes. yes. i hear ya. if i suddenly develop a strange/new illness that

seems to be something that is associated with breast implants..i'll

have been forewarned.

cindi

>

> Just a word of caution, Cindi.

>

> Many women go from barely having symptoms to extreme downhill in a

> matter of months.