Carl--mold between slab and hardwoods

[Guest guest]

Is it possible for mold to grow between hardwood floors and slab foundations?

" Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote: Exactly!

" who " wrote:

everyone should have this knowledge and the right to choose if they

want to risk thier health.--

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

---

> what is it going to take? some kind of mass class action lawsuit to

> get this all on the table and proven beyond dought. were is our

> lawfirm rideing in on great white horses? anyone with knowledge of the

> justice system knows that not one single mold case would ever had been

> won, or settled out of court if there was no proof that

> mold/mycotoxins cause illnesses and even death. this is bs and is

> going way beyond the time limit of aceptance. theres to many power

> forces behind this trying to keep this from being reconized. a damn

> horse gets better treatment than we do. and its going to drag on for

> another ten years if something major is not done. winning a case here

> and there is not enough. designing websites,makeing patitions, is not

> enough. theres 100's a groups spread out, each based on different

> parts of this illness that need to come together.because this illness

> has not ever been reconized as what it is, incompasing a wide range of

> diseases, we are basically spread out everywhere. you got the mcs

> groups, the cfs groups, the fibmyalgia groups, the arthritis groups,

> the ms, autisum, immune disfuction and on and on. how many are sick

> from mold exposure, how any have been misdiagnosed and dont even know

> it? it's pretty sad. why is this happening? theres not one dought in

> my mind that those fighting so hard to keep this quite know just

> exactually how ill mycotoxin exposure can make you and that it effects

> 2 things that add to thier favor. the brain and energy. they also know

> that the experts out there are not all together on this and that hurts

> us. this is something i dont really understand. from what i see if all

> the experts got together it would be a pretty complete package of

> everything going on with us. genetics, dna

> mutation,tilt,mcs,autoimunity,nos,allergies,ect. a multiple organ

> syndrome with hypersensatives.i dont think theres one single part of

> our body that is left untouched. some not to this point yet, some way

> beyond this point, close to death, many die with cansers. we are not

> the few, we are just the few known. we are in a war against very

> powerful cooperations that risk going broke if this illness is

> reconized.there well have to be major changes to save us and our

> planet. many of these large cooperations and thier products are

> actually causeing fungus to mutate and become more toxic, it does what

> it has to do to servive. maybe bush thinks he can take all the rich

> people to live on mars or maybe irac. these cooperaations are getting

> richer at our expence and they know it. so whats thier plan? i bet

> some of them have family members sick from mold. do they care? ok,

> lets say stem cell research comes up with something to help us, how

> much longer will that drag this out,and how much more will fungus

> mutate to overcome it, are we bound to become freaks of nature because

> we went against nature for the sake of money? what are my

> grandchildren going to have to suffer through? i know theres a lot of

> people worried and fed up. what does it take for change. theres a old

> saying that knowledge=change. we have knowledge but its scattered,how

> can we get everyone to come together? theres got to be something we

> can do and people that care. we need people with energy that are well

> to take interest in our fight.we are so close, something big to get us

> the attention we need to force this issue to be dealy with. even if we

> didn't get far with a class action it would get attention. it would

> say to the world that we are mad and we want something to be done. we

> need the world to know how unsafe it is to live and work around moldy

> environments. we need renters to know that they are getting exposed to

> molds in these rental apartments, people buying homes need to know

> that they could buy a home that could kill them and workers need to

> know that thier job could make them very ill and everyone should have

> this knowledge and the right to choose if they want to risk thier

> health.--

>

> -- In , snk1955@... wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > Prof Brinkman's quote from the WSJ article, False Witness:

> >

> >

> > 1. " according to the American College of Occupational and

> Environmental

> > Medicine, current scientific evidence does not support the

> proposition that

> > molds or the mycotoxins produced by molds, whether inhaled in

> home, school, or

> > office environments, adversely affect human health. "

> >

> > 2. Direct quotes from ACOEM mold statement:

> > " Levels of exposure in the indoor environment, dose-response data

> in

> > animals, and dose-rate considerations suggest that delivery by the

> inhalation route

> > of a toxic dose of mycotoxins in the indoor environment is highly

> unlikely

> > at best, even for the hypothetically most vulnerable

> subpopulations. "

> >

> > " Current scientific evidence does not support the proposition that

> human

> > health has been adversely affected by inhaled mycotoxins in home,

> school, or

> > office environments. "

> >

> > 3. The WSJ article, November 29, 2006:

> >

> >

> > False Witness

> > By LESTER BRICKMAN

> > December 2, 2006; Page A9

> >

> > Last year, in a shot heard round the mass tort world, U.S.

> District Court

> > Judge Janis Jack, presiding over 10,000 claims of silicosis -- a

> lung disease

> > caused by exposure to silica (sand) dusts, issued a report

> documenting

> > widespread, fraudulent medical diagnoses. The fraud was discovered

> when Judge Jack

> > permitted the defendants to extensively question the doctors who

> had diagnosed

> > the alleged injuries. While this sounds like standard operating

> procedure,

> > most judges would not have permitted such discovery. Indeed, the

> fraud would

> > never have come to light but for a courageous judge willing to, in

> effect,

> > put the tort system on trial.

> > Judge Jack largely corroborated my own published findings of

> fraudulent

> > production of medical evidence in asbestos litigation.......

> > Substantially the same fraudulent practices have been used in

> other mass

> > tort litigations. " Fen-phen " is one example. Several law firms and

> about 10

> > echocardiogram companies which started screening businesses spent

> millions of

> > dollars to set up makeshift " echo mills " in hotel rooms and

> elsewhere to

> > administer echocardiograms to users of these diet drugs.

> Approximately a few

> > thousand users suffered heart valve injuries, but tens of

> thousands responded to

> > advertisements to find out whether they qualified for

> compensation........

> > Silicone is another example. Screenings by lawyers in silicone

> breast

> > implant litigation ginned up tens of thousands of claims of

> connective tissue and

> > rheumatoid diseases that were supported by the specious diagnoses

> of a few

> > dozen doctors who were mostly referred by the lawyers. Cursory

> examinations --

> > sometimes in lawyers' offices doubling as examining rooms -- were

> done on an

> > assembly line basis by cardiologists charging as much as $6,000

> per

> > examination and diagnosing more than 90% of the women with

> symptoms that would make

> > them eligible for compensation.

> > However, the National Academy of Sciences' Institute of Medicine

> concluded

> > that " there is no evidence that silicone breast implants

> contribute to an

> > increase in autoimmune (connective tissue) diseases . . . and

> [there is] no link

> > between implants and connective disease or rheumatic conditions. "

> > Nonetheless, approximately $4 billion to $5 billion has been paid

> by the manufacturers

> > for connective tissue and autoimmune disease claims.

> > Mold litigation is still another example of a mass tort infected

> by

> > fraudulent medical and scientific evidence. Mold is a ubiquitous

> fungus to which

> > everyone is exposed; according to the American College of

> Occupational and

> > Environmental Medicine, current scientific evidence does not

> support the

> > proposition that molds or the mycotoxins produced by molds,

> whether inhaled in home,

> > school, or office environments, adversely affect human health. The

> scientific

> > evidence notwithstanding, mold litigation, a multibillion dollar

> industry,

> > proceeds because a small number of experts paid fees of as much as

> $10,000 a

> > day have regularly testified that mold causes a terrifying array

> of diseases

> > from lung cancer to cirrhosis of the liver.

> > While there are ongoing federal investigations of silica and

> asbestos

> > litigation in New York and of fen-phen litigation in Philadelphia,

> federal

> > prosecutors have not indicted the doctors and scientific experts.

> To prove fraud in

> > those cases will require the testimony of other doctors and

> scientific

> > experts; and it may be that prosecutors are concerned

> that " reasonable doubt " is

> > virtually inherent in a process that relies on a " battle of the

> experts " for

> > evidence of fraud. Meanwhile, doctors and scientific experts are

> obviously well

> > aware of their effective immunity from prosecution. They do not

> need a " get

> > out of jail free " card because they already have a " never go to

> jail " card.

> > Part of the solution is for judges to approach mass tort

> litigation with a

> > healthy skepticism when mass claims have been generated by the

> type of

> > litigation screenings used in asbestos, silica, fen-phen and

> breast implant

> > litigations. Integral to these litigation screenings are mass-

> produced medical

> > services which are manufactured for money -- practices which

> flourish when courts

> > insulate them from the extensive discovery presided over by Judge

> Jack.

> > But more is necessary to curb fraud. State and federal legislation

> is needed

> > to empower prosecutors to pierce doctors' and scientific experts'

> effective

> > immunity from criminal prosecution. Drafting legislation to

> distinguish

> > between legitimately disputed diagnoses or theories of causation

> and manufacturing

> > medical or scientific evidence for money is a daunting task. But

> it is one

> > that we must undertake to preserve the integrity of the civil

> justice system.

> > Mr. Brickman is professor of law at the Cardozo School of Law of

> Yeshiva

> > University.

> > 4. From the UCSF Tobacco Legacy Library regarding Prof Brichman,

> RJReynolds

> > Documents

> > _http://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/cgi/getdoc?

> tid=mcl46a00 & fmt=pdf & ref=results_

> > (http://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/cgi/getdoc?

> tid=mcl46a00 & fmt=pdf & ref=results)

> >

> > " FYI - The Manhattan Institute had a call from 60 Minutes.....the

> producer

> > might want to call an academic, and he provided Lester Brichman's

> name. "

> >

> >

> > " In response to Dan's question I said " no " neither we nor the

> litigation

> > project (which technically doesn't exist!) should not reach out to

> 60 Minutes or

> > we'd wind up in the story or kill it. I'm not even going to tell

> the cos.

> > for fear PM [sic ] will try to do something " clever " .

> >

> > " Former Helms staffer will be joining the Institute in July as sr.

> vp of

> > federal grant

> >

> > From the Manhattan Institute website:

> > _http://www.cardozo.yu.edu/life/summer2005/pdf/faculty_briefs.pdf_

> >

> (http://www.cardozo.yu.edu/life/summer2005/pdf/faculty_briefs.pdf)

> > > " President Bush with Prof. Lester Brickman (at left) for âEURœA

> Conversation on > Asbestos Litigation Reform.âEUR > " Lester Brickman

> received the 2004 Legal Reform Research Award from the US > Chamber

> of Commerce Institute for Legal Reform. " > > From the PointofLaw

> website: > > PointofLaw.com > is a website sponsored by the Center

> for Legal Policy at the _Manhattan > Institute_

> (http://www.manhattan-institute.org/) and _Liability Project_ >

> (http://www.aei.org/research/projectID.23/project.asp) at the

> American Enterprise > Institute. Focusing on America's civil justice

> system, the site includes > original discussions featuring some of

> the nation's top legal scholars, an ongoing > forum on liability

> issues, a bibliography of important books and articles, > and links to

> topical legal news stories. Contributors:Lester Brickman is a >

> professor of law at the N. Cardozo School of Law at Yeshiva

> > University. His areas of expertise include administrative

> alternatives to mass tort > litigation, asbestos litigation, and

> contingency fee reform. Professor Brickman > has written extensively

> on these and other topics, he has testified at > congressional

> hearings, and he is widely quoted in the press. > >

> (http://www.otispregnancy.org/pdf/mold.pdf) > The lay translation of

> the ACOEM Mold Statement was shared by the Manhattan > Institute with

> the US Chamber and affiliates in July of 2003. It ends with > the

> sentence, âEURœThus the notion that âEUR˜toxic moldâEUR™ is an insidious

> secret âEUR˜ > killerâEUR™ as so many media reports and trial lawyers

> would claim is âEUR˜Junk ScienceâEUR™ > unsupported by actual scientific

> study.âEUR > > > > Just one example of thousands regarding ill health

> and mold. It's a CDC doc. > _www.otispregnancy.org/pdf/mold.pdf_ >

> (http://www.otispregnancy.org/pdf/mold.pdf) > > > Sharon Kramer > > >

> > >