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Re: Does Smell indicate Mold or just VOC's?

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Having just returned to my mold haven, and spending ANOTHER afternoon looking

and finding nothing but houses with plug in after plug in, and returning here,

it is so dredful. Don't panic. It makes all this worse. Just plan to do what

you can to fix it. And be looking to move in the meantime.

How old is the building?

How long was the apartment vacant before you moved in?

Do you keep air circulating throughout? Do you have ceiling fans?

Yes, there can most certainly be mold beneath those hardwoods. I almost hate

hardwoods because of that fact. Here is what you can do to maybe help. Buy

the best vacuum you can afford, Nilfisk, Miele, Kirby, etc. are the best. Open

the windows, put fans exhausting the air out of the apartment and let that

vacuum do it's thing over and over again. There is must down in there and part

of that is dust. Also vaccum the baseboards, walls and ceilings and cabinets

and inside of closets if you can reach that high. Next you are going to have to

use warm water mixed with vinegar or borax and scrub those floors and walls and

closets and ceilings and cabinets interiors and exteriors. Let all this dry

thoughly by turning up the heat very high, close the windows and stay away for

as at least several hours. Then upon returning, open the windows and air it out

and go out for a bottle of water. It would not hurt to repeat this procedure

when you have the opportunity. Note: If

you can't do but a little at a time every little bit wll help but you should do

the vacuuming asap and the heating and airing.

I would do the vaccuming frequently. If you can't afford to purchase a really

good vac right now, contact on the reps and tell them you want to see how well

it cleans because such and such salesperson from another company let you borrow

it for a day.

Continue heating the place when you are going to away for several hours. This

reduces the moisture. Then air thoroughly each time. I have to do this al the

time and alternate with air conditioning even in the midst of winter.

Believe me, I know you don't feel good and you have all my prayers. This is

so hard. I was normal before this 100 year old pile of historic bricks zapped

me.

Try to eat as healthy as you can. I am juicing dark leafy greens and it seems

to give me at least enough energy to lookfor another house.

Jane Ann

barb1283 <barb1283@...> wrote:

To all you experts out there:

I moved into this new temporary apartment a month ago and notice it

*does* smell musty even though weather has permitted opening windows

almost every day and at night I have an Austin Hepa Plus running and

it has hardwood floors and place is otherwise clean, inside my unit

anyway. I ALSO have not been feeling well since I got here, not

real sick but loss of appetite, and other things where I was doing

very well at the extended stay hotel I was staying at for two and

half months. I moved here due to good test results from mold plates

that caught no viable mold spores...only place I got *no mold*.

However something else did grow in dish, I don't know what it was,

bacteria, yeast...not sure but not round things like mold and took

very long and not alot. SO could place be full of <<TOXINS>> even

though not much mold in air? I know this has been discussed. It is

very old building so even low amounts of mold over long periods of

time I guess toxins could build up, right?

The only thing I see is that hardwood floor is not in good

condition. The boards are spaced far apart, like with age they have

moved or shrunken so it really isn't the nice smooth non- poroused

surface that I can keep real clean that I had imagined. When I

sweep it, what I am sweeping can just fall between the boards.

Could musty smell becoming from hardwood floor since it is so old?

Looks like there is a lot of 'krud' in between floor gaps. I had my

cat here one day and he spent alot of time sniffing floor so he must

have found it odorous...so wondering if musty odor is coming from

floor.

Finding a good place is soooooooooo hard!!!! I was crying first few

days I was here, so discouraged. (It is also extremely noisey at

all hours. I so used to my completely quiet single family home on

dead end street.) I think what happened is when I looked at

apartment people were still in here and were cooking so probably

couldn't smell the musty odor for that reason.

So am I in good shape due to no mold caught in mold plate or is fact

place smells mean that I didn't find a clean place????

__________________________________________________

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have you noticed felling worse on windy days? you can also buy wood

fill and fill the spaces.

> To all you experts out there:

>

> I moved into this new temporary apartment a month ago and notice it

> *does* smell musty even though weather has permitted opening

windows

> almost every day and at night I have an Austin Hepa Plus running

and

> it has hardwood floors and place is otherwise clean, inside my unit

> anyway. I ALSO have not been feeling well since I got here, not

> real sick but loss of appetite, and other things where I was doing

> very well at the extended stay hotel I was staying at for two and

> half months. I moved here due to good test results from mold plates

> that caught no viable mold spores...only place I got *no mold*.

>

> However something else did grow in dish, I don't know what it was,

> bacteria, yeast...not sure but not round things like mold and took

> very long and not alot. SO could place be full of <<TOXINS>> even

> though not much mold in air? I know this has been discussed. It is

> very old building so even low amounts of mold over long periods of

> time I guess toxins could build up, right?

>

> The only thing I see is that hardwood floor is not in good

> condition. The boards are spaced far apart, like with age they have

> moved or shrunken so it really isn't the nice smooth non- poroused

> surface that I can keep real clean that I had imagined. When I

> sweep it, what I am sweeping can just fall between the boards.

>

> Could musty smell becoming from hardwood floor since it is so old?

> Looks like there is a lot of 'krud' in between floor gaps. I had my

> cat here one day and he spent alot of time sniffing floor so he

must

> have found it odorous...so wondering if musty odor is coming from

> floor.

>

> Finding a good place is soooooooooo hard!!!! I was crying first few

> days I was here, so discouraged. (It is also extremely noisey at

> all hours. I so used to my completely quiet single family home on

> dead end street.) I think what happened is when I looked at

> apartment people were still in here and were cooking so probably

> couldn't smell the musty odor for that reason.

>

> So am I in good shape due to no mold caught in mold plate or is

fact

> place smells mean that I didn't find a clean place????

>

>

>

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

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hold a feather over cracks,windy days could cause blowing in of what

ever is in thewall around you. depending on how its built, even a

forced air heating system could cause air flow from the basementor

crawl space even if your several floors up.it's easy to use wood

fill. take a wire brush and clean the cracks as best you can, use a

small one or two inch trowel, or scraper tool to apply which will

push it into the cracks,scrapeoff excess,let set a few minutes and

wipe area with damp sponge. get it in the color to best match your

floor stain color.

> > To all you experts out there:

> >

> > I moved into this new temporary apartment a month ago and notice

it

> > *does* smell musty even though weather has permitted opening

> windows

> > almost every day and at night I have an Austin Hepa Plus running

> and

> > it has hardwood floors and place is otherwise clean, inside my

unit

> > anyway. I ALSO have not been feeling well since I got here, not

> > real sick but loss of appetite, and other things where I was

doing

> > very well at the extended stay hotel I was staying at for two and

> > half months. I moved here due to good test results from mold

plates

> > that caught no viable mold spores...only place I got *no mold*.

> >

> > However something else did grow in dish, I don't know what it

was,

> > bacteria, yeast...not sure but not round things like mold and

took

> > very long and not alot. SO could place be full of <<TOXINS>> even

> > though not much mold in air? I know this has been discussed. It

is

> > very old building so even low amounts of mold over long periods

of

> > time I guess toxins could build up, right?

> >

> > The only thing I see is that hardwood floor is not in good

> > condition. The boards are spaced far apart, like with age they

have

> > moved or shrunken so it really isn't the nice smooth non-

poroused

> > surface that I can keep real clean that I had imagined. When I

> > sweep it, what I am sweeping can just fall between the boards.

> >

> > Could musty smell becoming from hardwood floor since it is so

old?

> > Looks like there is a lot of 'krud' in between floor gaps. I had

my

> > cat here one day and he spent alot of time sniffing floor so he

> must

> > have found it odorous...so wondering if musty odor is coming from

> > floor.

> >

> > Finding a good place is soooooooooo hard!!!! I was crying first

few

> > days I was here, so discouraged. (It is also extremely noisey at

> > all hours. I so used to my completely quiet single family home on

> > dead end street.) I think what happened is when I looked at

> > apartment people were still in here and were cooking so probably

> > couldn't smell the musty odor for that reason.

> >

> > So am I in good shape due to no mold caught in mold plate or is

> fact

> > place smells mean that I didn't find a clean place????

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

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There is too much wood and each plank has huge spaces between so it

would be too much wood filler but I could hepa vacuum it. I thought I

would not need a hepa vaccum because I planned to get hard flooring

and all metal, wood and leather interior that I can just dust, so

thought I could avoid the cost of the hepa vacuum. They can be rented

though I believe.

Anyway, first I will cover floor with plastic. That way I can see if

floor is what is making apartment smell musty or not. Thanks

I didn't notice a difference on windy days. It seems to smell musty

always. I can only notice it when I first walk in. After I am in

apartment for just a few minutes, I get used to smell and don't notice

it anymore. I think that is how I got to point I am at. My home was

musty but I only smelled it when I first walked in and then didn't

smell it anymore, so I thought it was something at the entryway

only...some old wood or dust someplace I miss regularly.

>

> have you noticed felling worse on windy days? you can also buy wood

> fill and fill the spaces

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There are no cracks in the wall but perhaps you mean wind can blow

things in through cracks in floor? Since apartment is so noisey and I

have only month to month lease, I don't think it would be worth my

effort to do this to three room apartment, bedroom, kitchen and living

room where all wood has openings on either side but interesting idea

none the less Jeanine. I'll remember it for more permanent place.

>

> hold a feather over cracks,windy days could cause blowing in of what

> ever is in thewall around you. depending on how its built, even a

> forced air heating system could cause air flow from the basementor

> crawl space even if

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>

> I can only notice it when I first walk in. After I am in

> apartment for just a few minutes, I get used to smell and don't

notice

> it anymore. I think that is how I got to point I am at. My home was

> musty but I only smelled it when I first walked in and then didn't

> smell it anymore,

>..yes,thisis what happens with exposure atlower doses. if you lay

plastic you'll be able to tell if air is flowing through cracks. if so,

hepa vacuming wouldn't help anyway.

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yep,still have a few lightbulb moments,some times takes a while to turn

the switch on but atleast the mold didn't get it all, otherwize i

wouldn't be much help to the cause and would just take up a lot of

space asking a lot of questions that i couldn't fiqure out for myself.

well, haveing a bad patch so back to bed i go.

> >

> > hold a feather over cracks,windy days could cause blowing in of

what

> > ever is in thewall around you. depending on how its built, even a

> > forced air heating system could cause air flow from the basementor

> > crawl space even if

>

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Odors can enter into your space thru the electrical outlets, etc.

barb1283 <barb1283@...> wrote: There are no cracks in the wall

but perhaps you mean wind can blow

things in through cracks in floor? Since apartment is so noisey and I

have only month to month lease, I don't think it would be worth my

effort to do this to three room apartment, bedroom, kitchen and living

room where all wood has openings on either side but interesting idea

none the less Jeanine. I'll remember it for more permanent place.

>

> hold a feather over cracks,windy days could cause blowing in of what

> ever is in thewall around you. depending on how its built, even a

> forced air heating system could cause air flow from the basementor

> crawl space even if

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Our olfactory nerves get accustomed to the smells in our space. You are

experiencing a condition known as masking to your new space.

In my 100 year old house I only smell the mustiness upon entering.

When I am houses I am considering buying, it's another story altogether.

Some smell at the point of entry and some smell the deeper in you go. If the

property has been closed up I gag severely and have to run out quickly.

You do not have a central system so your space will have that shut up smell

most probably.

barb1283 <barb1283@...> wrote:

There is too much wood and each plank has huge spaces between so it

would be too much wood filler but I could hepa vacuum it. I thought I

would not need a hepa vaccum because I planned to get hard flooring

and all metal, wood and leather interior that I can just dust, so

thought I could avoid the cost of the hepa vacuum. They can be rented

though I believe.

Anyway, first I will cover floor with plastic. That way I can see if

floor is what is making apartment smell musty or not. Thanks

I didn't notice a difference on windy days. It seems to smell musty

always. I can only notice it when I first walk in. After I am in

apartment for just a few minutes, I get used to smell and don't notice

it anymore. I think that is how I got to point I am at. My home was

musty but I only smelled it when I first walked in and then didn't

smell it anymore, so I thought it was something at the entryway

only...some old wood or dust someplace I miss regularly.

>

> have you noticed felling worse on windy days? you can also buy wood

> fill and fill the spaces

__________________________________________________

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The people who lived here before me just moved out days before I moved

in, so wasn't empty for long; and since we have been having very mild

weather with dewpoints in the 30's, I open the windows every day and

have two ceiling fans to stir the air up that I turn on once in awhile

so really isn't closed up. I make a point of opening windows as much

as possible every day so there should not be musty smell from being

shut.

--- In , jane mosher <janeannmosher@...>

wrote:

>

> Our olfactory nerves get accustomed to the smells in our space. You

are experiencing a condition known as masking to your new space.

>

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Ceiling fans blow everything around. You should use a fan in the window to

exhaust the air forceably from the area especially after you vacuum and scrub

and mop EVERYWHERE with something like borax.

barb1283 <barb1283@...> wrote: The people who lived here before

me just moved out days before I moved

in, so wasn't empty for long; and since we have been having very mild

weather with dewpoints in the 30's, I open the windows every day and

have two ceiling fans to stir the air up that I turn on once in awhile

so really isn't closed up. I make a point of opening windows as much

as possible every day so there should not be musty smell from being

shut.

--- In , jane mosher <janeannmosher@...>

wrote:

>

> Our olfactory nerves get accustomed to the smells in our space. You

are experiencing a condition known as masking to your new space.

>

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It's called olfactory fatigue. When you get accuatomed to the odors..aka,

guys working in a sewer treatment plant same with the people who don't

notice their fragrances and douse themselves until they can smell it.

On Fri, 29 Dec 2006, jane mosher wrote:

> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 16:29:34 -0800 (PST)

> From: jane mosher <janeannmosher@...>

> Reply-

>

> Subject: Re: [] Re: Does Smell indicate Mold or just VOC's?

>

> Our olfactory nerves get accustomed to the smells in our space. You are

experiencing a condition known as masking to your new space.

> In my 100 year old house I only smell the mustiness upon entering.

> When I am houses I am considering buying, it's another story altogether.

> Some smell at the point of entry and some smell the deeper in you go. If the

property has been closed up I gag severely and have to run out quickly.

> You do not have a central system so your space will have that shut up smell

most probably.

>

>

> barb1283 <barb1283@...> wrote:

> There is too much wood and each plank has huge spaces between so it

> would be too much wood filler but I could hepa vacuum it. I thought I

> would not need a hepa vaccum because I planned to get hard flooring

> and all metal, wood and leather interior that I can just dust, so

> thought I could avoid the cost of the hepa vacuum. They can be rented

> though I believe.

> Anyway, first I will cover floor with plastic. That way I can see if

> floor is what is making apartment smell musty or not. Thanks

> I didn't notice a difference on windy days. It seems to smell musty

> always. I can only notice it when I first walk in. After I am in

> apartment for just a few minutes, I get used to smell and don't notice

> it anymore. I think that is how I got to point I am at. My home was

> musty but I only smelled it when I first walked in and then didn't

> smell it anymore, so I thought it was something at the entryway

> only...some old wood or dust someplace I miss regularly.

>

>

>>

>> have you noticed felling worse on windy days? you can also buy wood

>> fill and fill the spaces

>

>

>

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

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Thanks, the EI doctors refer to the process as either masking or unmasking

depending on which state your olfactory system and detox which you are in.

Angel says NO MORE 2 Clarins <jap2bemc@...> wrote:

It's called olfactory fatigue. When you get accuatomed to the odors..aka,

guys working in a sewer treatment plant same with the people who don't

notice their fragrances and douse themselves until they can smell it.

On Fri, 29 Dec 2006, jane mosher wrote:

> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 16:29:34 -0800 (PST)

> From: jane mosher <janeannmosher@...>

> Reply-

>

> Subject: Re: [] Re: Does Smell indicate Mold or just VOC's?

>

> Our olfactory nerves get accustomed to the smells in our space. You are

experiencing a condition known as masking to your new space.

> In my 100 year old house I only smell the mustiness upon entering.

> When I am houses I am considering buying, it's another story altogether.

> Some smell at the point of entry and some smell the deeper in you go. If the

property has been closed up I gag severely and have to run out quickly.

> You do not have a central system so your space will have that shut up smell

most probably.

>

>

> barb1283 <barb1283@...> wrote:

> There is too much wood and each plank has huge spaces between so it

> would be too much wood filler but I could hepa vacuum it. I thought I

> would not need a hepa vaccum because I planned to get hard flooring

> and all metal, wood and leather interior that I can just dust, so

> thought I could avoid the cost of the hepa vacuum. They can be rented

> though I believe.

> Anyway, first I will cover floor with plastic. That way I can see if

> floor is what is making apartment smell musty or not. Thanks

> I didn't notice a difference on windy days. It seems to smell musty

> always. I can only notice it when I first walk in. After I am in

> apartment for just a few minutes, I get used to smell and don't notice

> it anymore. I think that is how I got to point I am at. My home was

> musty but I only smelled it when I first walked in and then didn't

> smell it anymore, so I thought it was something at the entryway

> only...some old wood or dust someplace I miss regularly.

>

>

>>

>> have you noticed felling worse on windy days? you can also buy wood

>> fill and fill the spaces

>

>

>

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

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thanks angel, should have known there was a name for this to.

heres a interesting article on it.

oder and food olecules activate membrane receptors

<http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/chems.html>

> >>

> >> have you noticed felling worse on windy days? you can also buy

wood

> >> fill and fill the spaces

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

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What is masking or unmasking? I've heard of that so often but in the

context of chemical sensivitivity or allergies, like unmasking an

allergic reaction, etc.

> It's called olfactory fatigue. When you get accuatomed to the

odors..aka,

> guys working in a sewer treatment plant same with the people who

don't

> notice their fragrances and douse themselves until they can smell it.

>

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Barb, I think that with MCS, the olefactory bulb is more than

fatiqued, it's damaged.

> > It's called olfactory fatigue. When you get accuatomed to the

> odors..aka,

> > guys working in a sewer treatment plant same with the people who

> don't

> > notice their fragrances and douse themselves until they can smell

it.

> >

>

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I don't think being unmasked from everything is good. Once you are so perfectly

clean with nothing in your body, how does one re-enter the 21st century? I am

speaking of this in the context of mcs/allergies.

barb1283 <barb1283@...> wrote: What is masking or unmasking? I've

heard of that so often but in the

context of chemical sensivitivity or allergies, like unmasking an

allergic reaction, etc.

> It's called olfactory fatigue. When you get accuatomed to the

odors..aka,

> guys working in a sewer treatment plant same with the people who

don't

> notice their fragrances and douse themselves until they can smell it.

>

__________________________________________________

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My pulmonologist at the mayo clinic told me to give up all scented products.

once I apparently detoxed them, I could not tolerate them in my presence. I

don't know if the doctor thought I would go as far as I have to give up

commercially available cleaners, avoid dry cleaned clothes, use the solid

deodorant rock and unscented shampoos and conditioners. I put everyone in my

house on this regimen as well and now they have problems with the scented world

and all of them are healthy and not affected by mold and allergies. So

sometimes I think the state of being totally isolated and unmasked is a bunch of

" hooey. "

barb1283 <barb1283@...> wrote: What is masking or unmasking?

I've heard of that so often but in the

context of chemical sensivitivity or allergies, like unmasking an

allergic reaction, etc.

> It's called olfactory fatigue. When you get accuatomed to the

odors..aka,

> guys working in a sewer treatment plant same with the people who

don't

> notice their fragrances and douse themselves until they can smell it.

>

__________________________________________________

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Jeanine, I wasn't asking about olfactory fatigue. It sounds self

explanatory. Nose is used to smell, so doesn't detect it anymore.

What I am saying is that I have heard word 'masking' and 'unmasking'

used by MCS people alot.

>

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This is the way I have heard term used. A friend with MCS says she is

sorry she got unmasked because now she cannot tolerate anything so she

is trying to expose herself a little bit at a time to the world of

scents, so I've heard term used like this, in relationship to MCS, not

olfactory fatigue.

--- In , jane mosher <janeannmosher@...>

wrote:

>

> I don't think being unmasked from everything is good. Once you are

so perfectly clean with nothing in your body, how does one re-enter

the 21st century? I am speaking of this in the context of

mcs/allergies.

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I am almost too unmasked. I read a book about it written by a doctor in Texas.

I think if you get too detoxed and avoid everything, you lose what immunity you

have to whatever. At the mayo clinic, they took me off of scents and now they

cause me problems. I wear a little bit of scented stuff now. Better to be a

little sick than incapable of sitting in a public place. There is an ei doctor

here and he has a loyal following who gave up scents. It has become a little

cult. Now they faint when someone comes in with perfume. before they were just

a little headachy. which is worse? isolated and then fainting or a litle bit

headachy?

barb1283 <barb1283@...> wrote: This is the way I have heard term

used. A friend with MCS says she is

sorry she got unmasked because now she cannot tolerate anything so she

is trying to expose herself a little bit at a time to the world of

scents, so I've heard term used like this, in relationship to MCS, not

olfactory fatigue.

--- In , jane mosher <janeannmosher@...>

wrote:

>

> I don't think being unmasked from everything is good. Once you are

so perfectly clean with nothing in your body, how does one re-enter

the 21st century? I am speaking of this in the context of

mcs/allergies.

__________________________________________________

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For me the longer I stay away from the fragrances the better I

tolerate them when exposed. I can go to a store and come home okay

now if I don't go too long and have a chance to get some air. Like on

Christmas I did pretty good all day at relatives but I did wake up in

the middle of the night vomiting from a migrane. I didn't get the

migrane until I got home after a very long day. When I got home the

musty smell of this house hit me in the face. I don't notice it when

I am here but, if I leave for a while the odor hits me in the face

when I return. Seems like I notice a lot of musty houses these days.

Even very expensive houses.

So it seems like I can be out for a while, but after a while the

chemicals build up in my system. I am living with people right now

that still use bad laundry products, air freshner once in a while,

etc. If I can get out of that area I seem to be ok. When I was in

my apartment I was constantly being exposed to fragrances through the

vents and through the walls. I had my heater doors all taped up so

that fragrance wouldn't seep through. It was like being stuck in a

place that was being pumped with cooking odors, fragrances, and dryer

exhaust. I didn't drive so I was a prisoner in a dangerous

environment. I was really sick there all the time. They say it is

like a glass of water, when the glass gets full your body is full of

toxins. When it is half full you can still handle a little. I forget

the exact phrase but you get my drift. lol

> > It's called olfactory fatigue. When you get accuatomed to the

> odors..aka,

> > guys working in a sewer treatment plant same with the people who

> don't

> > notice their fragrances and douse themselves until they can smell

it.

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

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I find my MCS is soley a barometer for my mold illness- the better I

am the more I can tolerate. Which is the same for the illness in

generel, if build up toxins in my system, I become intorerent of

everything- an must live in a totally clean environment to start

feeling better- once I am well ,I can tolerate moderatly normal air

and scents. I find it hard to understand or believe that a totally

healthy person, just by giving up scents, would create an intolerance

for them-they certainly would become more aware of them, but faint?

alittle like the vapours in n times.

> >

> > I don't think being unmasked from everything is good. Once you

are

> so perfectly clean with nothing in your body, how does one re-enter

> the 21st century? I am speaking of this in the context of

> mcs/allergies.

>

>

>

>

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Barb,with mcs there is a masking of symptoms. once you get out of that

environment symptoms slowly start unmasking themselfs, the more

irratants you can avoid,the better you can fell.

> >

> > I don't think being unmasked from everything is good. Once you are

> so perfectly clean with nothing in your body, how does one re-enter

> the 21st century? I am speaking of this in the context of

> mcs/allergies.

>

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Jane,you don't know what your talking about. you don'tjust get a

little headacky with mcs. sometimes if you don't understand something

it's better to keep your mouthshut! and there is a big difference

between masking and unmasking with allergies and with mcs and

hypersensativitys. there is a hudge difference between allergies and

poisoning by toxins that cause mcs.

> >

> > I don't think being unmasked from everything is good. Once you

are

> so perfectly clean with nothing in your body, how does one re-enter

> the 21st century? I am speaking of this in the context of

> mcs/allergies.

>

>

>

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

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