Guest guest Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 For those hygienists who work in the field dealing with mold- I continue to find an unregulated questionable industry fraught with problems. Most unfortunate are for those of us dependent upon these services who not only have sustained insurmountable losses related to mold exposure but have to contend with the " experts " that have only further jeopardized our situations. For those of us whose lives are forever and permanently altered though mold exposure, we rely upon these very professionals to adhere to a set of standards that include a moral code that far too often seems to be lacking. It is my hope for the future that within your industry standards will improve, integrity will grow, conflict of interests will lesson. Bobbins, RN, L.Ac, QME Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 what ever happened to bedside manners and knowing that the patient knows thier body better than anyone. > > For those hygienists who work in the field dealing with mold- I continue to > find an unregulated questionable industry fraught with problems. Most > unfortunate are for those of us dependent upon these services who not only have > sustained insurmountable losses related to mold exposure but have to contend > with the " experts " that have only further jeopardized our situations. > > For those of us whose lives are forever and permanently altered though mold > exposure, we rely upon these very professionals to adhere to a set of > standards that include a moral code that far too often seems to be lacking. It is my > hope for the future that within your industry standards will improve, > integrity will grow, conflict of interests will lesson. > > Bobbins, RN, L.Ac, QME > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 What about mold consultants who commit fraud? Is there any way to hold them accountable, besides complaining to the state? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 Maybe Carl can answer your question as to a way of holding these individuals accountable in an industry where there seems to be no accountability. I certainly would be interested in his response. Bobbins, RN, L.Ac, QME In a message dated 1/5/2007 2:23:06 PM Central Standard Time, quackadillian@... writes: What about mold consultants who commit fraud? Is there any way to hold them accountable, besides complaining to the state? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 how can they be held accountable when there are no strict quidelines in place and there is not enough research being done to establish those guidelines. not many out there like Carl. most just get into it for the money and dont even know enough to give you good advice. kind of like some doctors, they can just claim ignorance because of lack of information. > > > Maybe Carl can answer your question as to a way of holding these individuals > accountable in an industry where there seems to be no accountability. I > certainly would be interested in his response. > Bobbins, RN, L.Ac, QME > > > In a message dated 1/5/2007 2:23:06 PM Central Standard Time, > quackadillian@... writes: > > What about mold consultants who commit fraud? > > Is there any way to hold them accountable, besides complaining to the state? > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 There needs to be a consumer-based organization that rates these people, one that isn't made up of the people who are being rated. Its really a MAJOR TRAGEDY how EXPENSIVE it is for everyday people to get help of ANY kind in this area and then it begins to get obscene how often that help turns out to be a hindrance or a money pit that doesn't get them the relief they crave. I know that there are a lot of people on this list who buy and sell houses for profit and who use this list as a way of learning how to evaluate houses to clean them up, etc. and I know that is just part of the housing 'game' these days, but it really makes me ill to think of how many people put everything they own into homes, desperate to have a place that at least they have control over, and then they end up in a hellish mold situation. This system really is broken right now and I don't have the foggiest idea of how to fix it, but the people who are being hurt the most are the ones who can least afford to pay and our nation isn't a good place to live when you are in that situation. It destroys lives needlessly. I just have to say that I think that there IS a solution out there, but it would involve an interdisciplinary and non-profit-oriented collaboration between many different groups who right now are cashing in on misery. It isn't going to happen without some real pressure. Our tort system is seriously broken - and not in the way the evil 'tort reform' advocates say, its the exact opposite - normal, non-rich people are NOT getting any measure of justice, lives are being ruined, and the 'sanctions' against the abuses that are making this happen on a massive scale are nonexistant compared to what they need to be to actually deter people - or more often, soulless corporations, from doing what they are doing now. They are laughing all the way to the bank. On 1/6/07, who <jeaninem660@...> wrote: > > how can they be held accountable when there are no strict quidelines > in place and there is not enough research being done to establish > those guidelines. not many out there like Carl. most just get into it > for the money and dont even know enough to give you good advice. kind > of like some doctors, they can just claim ignorance because of lack > of information. > > > > > > Maybe Carl can answer your question as to a way of holding these > individuals > > accountable in an industry where there seems to be no > accountability. I > > certainly would be interested in his response. > > Bobbins, RN, L.Ac, QME > > > > > > In a message dated 1/5/2007 2:23:06 PM Central Standard Time, > > quackadillian@... writes: > > > > What about mold consultants who commit fraud? > > > > Is there any way to hold them accountable, besides complaining to > the state? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 Jeanine, You hit the nail on the head. How can those in an industry be held accountable when that industry is one that is not regulated? This is part of the reason people sue, as the only way to hold an individual and or company responsible and accountable. Professional standards are seriously lacking for those that work in this mold related field. Far too many who work in this industry do so with their slight of hands. Now you see it, now you don't, otherwise known as deceit and fraud, a type of switch and bait. Too many hygienists/consultants have perfected these skills. The defense relies on these very individuals. They talk the fast talk and talk a very good game. They are litigation savvy and know what it takes to create a defense when there is no real defense. These are the " skills " that they get paid the big bucks for. These are the very individuals and companies that will not hesitate to cross over any line. These are the " experts " that have traded in their integrity for profit. As far as physicians are concerned they have fallen victim to the type of propaganda put out by the defense industry-that there is little medical correlation to mycotoxin exposure and related illness. This misinformation has not only been very convincing to physicians but to the public at large. So why then would physicians be concerned about mold and or interested in learning more when they have been led to believe that mold has been around since the beginning of time and does no real harm to people? Without public pressure this perception will not change. Without pressure nothing in an industry fraught with problems will change. Bobbins, RN, L.Ac, QME In a message dated 1/6/2007 1:56:48 PM Central Standard Time, jeaninem660@... writes: how can they be held accountable when there are no strict quidelines in place and there is not enough research being done to establish those guidelines. not many out there like Carl. most just get into it for the money and dont even know enough to give you good advice. kind of like some doctors, they can just claim ignorance because of lack of information.of info_@ic_ (mailto: ) , bobbinsbiomed@bobbinsbio > > > Maybe Carl can answer your question as to a way of holding these individuals > accountable in an industry where there seems to be no accountability. I > certainly would be interested in his response. > Bobbins, RN, L.Ac, QME > > > In a message dated 1/5/2007 2:23:06 PM Central Standard Time, > quackadillian@ quackadillian@ > > What about mold consultants who commit fraud? > > Is there any way to hold them accountable, besides complaining to the state? > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 HUMmmm Interesting, iLL Drank to that I for one sooooo, agree Peace Elvira > > From: LiveSimply <quackadillian@...> > Date: 2007/01/06 Sat PM 05:08:04 EST > > Subject: Re: [] Re: Unregulated industry > > There needs to be a consumer-based organization that rates these people, one > that isn't made up of the people who are being rated. > > Its really a MAJOR TRAGEDY how EXPENSIVE it is for everyday people to get > help of ANY kind in this area and then it begins to get obscene how often > that help turns out to be a hindrance or a money pit that doesn't get them > the relief they crave. > > I know that there are a lot of people on this list who buy and sell houses > for profit and who use this list as a way of learning how to evaluate houses > to clean them up, etc. and I know that is just part of the housing 'game' > these days, but it really makes me ill to think of how many people put > everything they own into homes, desperate to have a place that at least they > have control over, and then they end up in a hellish mold situation. > > This system really is broken right now and I don't have the foggiest idea of > how to fix it, but the people who are being hurt the most are the ones who > can least afford to pay and our nation isn't a good place to live when you > are in that situation. > > It destroys lives needlessly. > > I just have to say that I think that there IS a solution out there, but it > would involve an interdisciplinary and non-profit-oriented collaboration > between many different groups who right now are cashing in on misery. > > It isn't going to happen without some real pressure. > > Our tort system is seriously broken - and not in the way the evil 'tort > reform' advocates say, its the exact opposite - normal, non-rich people are > NOT getting any measure of justice, lives are being ruined, and the > 'sanctions' against the abuses that are making this happen on a massive > scale are nonexistant compared to what they need to be to actually deter > people - or more often, soulless corporations, from doing what they are > doing now. > > They are laughing all the way to the bank. > > > > On 1/6/07, who <jeaninem660@...> wrote: > > > > how can they be held accountable when there are no strict quidelines > > in place and there is not enough research being done to establish > > those guidelines. not many out there like Carl. most just get into it > > for the money and dont even know enough to give you good advice. kind > > of like some doctors, they can just claim ignorance because of lack > > of information. > > > > > > > > > Maybe Carl can answer your question as to a way of holding these > > individuals > > > accountable in an industry where there seems to be no > > accountability. I > > > certainly would be interested in his response. > > > Bobbins, RN, L.Ac, QME > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 1/5/2007 2:23:06 PM Central Standard Time, > > > quackadillian@... writes: > > > > > > What about mold consultants who commit fraud? > > > > > > Is there any way to hold them accountable, besides complaining to > > the state? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 It seems like the main reason many mold consultants are hired is to absolve the responsible parties of responsibility, but then they are not responsible, either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 People living under HUD can't sue we have to lean on the NAACP and Legal Aid all part of the problem not the solution. we the people need Attorneys that will help the poor, that to me is where the real money is but he or she has to have realllllll GUTS evicted by mold Voucher taken away HUD is Pro Landlord I wonder Why Don't you!?. This could happen to you Disable blind elders who will fight for use??????? Elvira > > From: bobbinsbiomed@... > Date: 2007/01/07 Sun AM 12:45:51 EST > > Subject: Re: [] Re: Unregulated industry > > > Jeanine, > > You hit the nail on the head. How can those in an industry be held > accountable when that industry is one that is not regulated? This is part of the > reason people sue, as the only way to hold an individual and or company > responsible and accountable. > > Professional standards are seriously lacking for those that work in this > mold related field. Far too many who work in this industry do so with their > slight of hands. Now you see it, now you don't, otherwise known as deceit and > fraud, a type of switch and bait. Too many hygienists/consultants have > perfected these skills. The defense relies on these very individuals. They talk the > fast talk and talk a very good game. They are litigation savvy and know > what it takes to create a defense when there is no real defense. These are the > " skills " that they get paid the big bucks for. These are the very individuals > and companies that will not hesitate to cross over any line. These are the > " experts " that have traded in their integrity for profit. > > As far as physicians are concerned they have fallen victim to the type of > propaganda put out by the defense industry-that there is little medical > correlation to mycotoxin exposure and related illness. This misinformation has not > only been very convincing to physicians but to the public at large. So why > then would physicians be concerned about mold and or interested in learning > more when they have been led to believe that mold has been around since the > beginning of time and does no real harm to people? Without public pressure > this perception will not change. Without pressure nothing in an industry > fraught with problems will change. > > Bobbins, RN, L.Ac, QME > > In a message dated 1/6/2007 1:56:48 PM Central Standard Time, > jeaninem660@... writes: > > how can they be held accountable when there are no strict quidelines > in place and there is not enough research being done to establish > those guidelines. not many out there like Carl. most just get into it > for the money and dont even know enough to give you good advice. kind > of like some doctors, they can just claim ignorance because of lack > of information.of info_@ic_ > (mailto: ) , > bobbinsbiomed@bobbinsbio > > > > > > Maybe Carl can answer your question as to a way of holding these > individuals > > accountable in an industry where there seems to be no > accountability. I > > certainly would be interested in his response. > > Bobbins, RN, L.Ac, QME > > > > > > In a message dated 1/5/2007 2:23:06 PM Central Standard Time, > > quackadillian@ quackadillian@ > > > > What about mold consultants who commit fraud? > > > > Is there any way to hold them accountable, besides complaining to > the state? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 On Sun, 7 Jan 2007 00:45:51 EST, you wrote: > So why >then would physicians be concerned about mold and or interested in learning >more when they have been led to believe that mold has been around since the >beginning of time and does no real harm to people? Without public pressure >this perception will not change. Without pressure nothing in an industry >fraught with problems will change. It's my belief that physicians are right. Mold does not do any real harm to people with an intact immune system. I base this on the numbers. If this were NOT true physicians would have no choice but to recognize it by sheer weight of the numbers and the ensuing public pressure. The numbers are not there so they ignore us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 Hello all. I'll try address the questions several of you have asked. A remedy for this unregulated industry is extremely tough, but not just because of the lack of regulation. Texas, for example, has LAWS about inspecting and remediating mold. It is very clear about what is legal and what isn't. Unfortunately, the legal clarity comes at the expense of reality and provides little benefit to those affected, especially those like many on this list that are severely impacted. Results can happen quickly but not always producing the desired results. Another approach is to enact laws that recognize specific levels and types of training and experience that are independantly verified by those without a financial interest. It's no guarantee as the example of doctors demonstrates and some of my colleagues prove. This approach mandates the expertise but not how it is used. It reduces the opportunities for harm but doesn't eliminate it. This takes longer than a law but can be quite effective. My preference and efforts include the latter but it must occur within the context of a concurrent educational effort of the public. This is most effective but takes the longest to achieve. And is expensive to deliver the information. Also, there needs to be a certain level of need and awareness before the " public " will listen to and trust the information they hear. Just think of all the family and friends we know who don't believe us. Or all the celebrities the past 7-8 years that have gone public and pushed the issues. I, too, wish for something faster and more effective. But it's just going to take time. Also, believe it or not, the conversations you have on this group have a powerful effect with those who find us and are ready to hear what we have to say. It's slow, but the most effective. So keep talking! Carl Grimes Healthy Habitats LLC ----- For those hygienists who work in the field dealing with mold- I continue to find an unregulated questionable industry fraught with problems. Most unfortunate are for those of us dependent upon these services who not only have sustained insurmountable losses related to mold exposure but have to contend with the " experts " that have only further jeopardized our situations. For those of us whose lives are forever and permanently altered though mold exposure, we rely upon these very professionals to adhere to a set of standards that include a moral code that far too often seems to be lacking. It is my hope for the future that within your industry standards will improve, integrity will grow, conflict of interests will lesson. Bobbins, RN, L.Ac, QME > how can they be held accountable when there are no strict quidelines > in place and there is not enough research being done to establish > those guidelines. not many out there like Carl. most just get into it > for the money and dont even know enough to give you good advice. kind > of like some doctors, they can just claim ignorance because of lack > of information. > > > > > > Maybe Carl can answer your question as to a way of holding these > individuals > > accountable in an industry where there seems to be no > accountability. I > > certainly would be interested in his response. > > Bobbins, RN, L.Ac, QME > > > > > > In a message dated 1/5/2007 2:23:06 PM Central Standard Time, > > quackadillian@... writes: > > > > What about mold consultants who commit fraud? > > > > Is there any way to hold them accountable, besides complaining to > the state? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 problem is , that continueous exposure can cause immune disfunction. > > > So why > >then would physicians be concerned about mold and or interested in learning > >more when they have been led to believe that mold has been around since the > >beginning of time and does no real harm to people? Without public pressure > >this perception will not change. Without pressure nothing in an industry > >fraught with problems will change. > > It's my belief that physicians are right. Mold does not do any real > harm to people with an intact immune system. I base this on the > numbers. If this were NOT true physicians would have no choice but to > recognize it by sheer weight of the numbers and the ensuing public > pressure. The numbers are not there so they ignore us. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 The numbers are not there because mold is not diagnosed in most cases- how many Dr's do a VCS testif you suffer from any number of 30 symptoms? NONE!I was sick for over 10 years before I figured out what was wrong with me-I met a woman who was sick her whole life from mold and only found out about it in her 60's-and for me personally-I was a totally healthy person before I had my first exposure to toxic mold- very healthy-very smart-very energized- mold took it all away > > > So why > >then would physicians be concerned about mold and or interested in learning > >more when they have been led to believe that mold has been around since the > >beginning of time and does no real harm to people? Without public pressure > >this perception will not change. Without pressure nothing in an industry > >fraught with problems will change. > > It's my belief that physicians are right. Mold does not do any real > harm to people with an intact immune system. I base this on the > numbers. If this were NOT true physicians would have no choice but to > recognize it by sheer weight of the numbers and the ensuing public > pressure. The numbers are not there so they ignore us. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 > > It's my belief that physicians are right. Mold does not do any real > harm to people with an intact immune system. I base this on the > numbers. If this were NOT true physicians would have no choice but to > recognize it by sheer weight of the numbers and the ensuing public > pressure. The numbers are not there so they ignore us. > > > I disagree entirely with this statement. If you look at Shoemaker's research, 25% of the population has the predisposition to be made ill by mold. My entire family has those genes and the potential for exposure, but they write off their health problems as just the way they are and getting older. My mother takes half a dozen prescription medications, including anti-depressants and lots of OTC nasal/sinus, stomach remedies and headache remedies. Many people accept the statements from these doctors (the majority sadly), that aren't educated on the impacts and symptoms of mold related illnesses, that there's nothing wrong with them. It took me almost 10 doctors to get someone that could figure out there really was something wrong with me (and my sons). Just consider all the people on medications for asthma/allergies. Until I got Lyme disease, I considered all my (mold related) symptoms to be just " allergies " and I considered it normal to take all these OTC medications daily. Of course, I'm also part of the 3% with the dreaded genotype and certainly we are a much smaller population and we are the ones with the greater difficulty in getting well. However, even my oldest son, who does not have that genotype (he's mold/low MSH), has benefitted from the CSM protocol and mold avoidance. And, if I hadn't known better, I would have just assumed that he was just that way (i.e., lazy and unmotivated about school work and not interested in normal teenage activities). If you consider all the behavior problems amongst kids today and the number of kids on medication for ADD/ADHD, that alone should make you realize there's clearly something these doctors haven't figured out. (I'm not saying mold is the only contributor here, but I can certainly make an educated estimate that at least 25% of those kids have a problem with mold). Most physicians are perfectly happy to not recognize the impact of mold illness as it gives them a steady stream of clients for whom they have an endless supply of prescription medicines to prescribe. And, of course, this is totally supported and re-enforced by the big pharmaceutical companies. Just think of all the anti-depressants and allergy medications that wouldn't need to be prescribed if doctors were accurately recognizing mold illnesses. I say this from personal experience as those were pretty much the solutions offered me until I was properly diagnosed (I have over a dozen unfilled prescriptions and lots of free samples for that garbage). Be well, B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 sorry--but i COMPLETELY disagree with this one. i was HEALTHY--until i inhaled two lungs full of a powdery substance at my former workplace. " aspirgillus & penicillium are powdery substances which are inhaled. " BOTH cause inflammation/demyelination of the CNS....which is what i have. i was HEALTHY--always, before this happened! victoria [] Re: Unregulated industry > > It's my belief that physicians are right. Mold does not do any real > harm to people with an intact immune system. I base this on the > numbers. If this were NOT true physicians would have no choice but to > recognize it by sheer weight of the numbers and the ensuing public > pressure. The numbers are not there so they ignore us. > > > I disagree entirely with this statement. If you look at Shoemaker's research, 25% of the population has the predisposition to be made ill by mold. My entire family has those genes and the potential for exposure, but they write off their health problems as just the way they are and getting older. My mother takes half a dozen prescription medications, including anti-depressants and lots of OTC nasal/sinus, stomach remedies and headache remedies. Many people accept the statements from these doctors (the majority sadly), that aren't educated on the impacts and symptoms of mold related illnesses, that there's nothing wrong with them. It took me almost 10 doctors to get someone that could figure out there really was something wrong with me (and my sons). Just consider all the people on medications for asthma/allergies. Until I got Lyme disease, I considered all my (mold related) symptoms to be just " allergies " and I considered it normal to take all these OTC medications daily. Of course, I'm also part of the 3% with the dreaded genotype and certainly we are a much smaller population and we are the ones with the greater difficulty in getting well. However, even my oldest son, who does not have that genotype (he's mold/low MSH), has benefitted from the CSM protocol and mold avoidance. And, if I hadn't known better, I would have just assumed that he was just that way (i.e., lazy and unmotivated about school work and not interested in normal teenage activities). If you consider all the behavior problems amongst kids today and the number of kids on medication for ADD/ADHD, that alone should make you realize there's clearly something these doctors haven't figured out. (I'm not saying mold is the only contributor here, but I can certainly make an educated estimate that at least 25% of those kids have a problem with mold). Most physicians are perfectly happy to not recognize the impact of mold illness as it gives them a steady stream of clients for whom they have an endless supply of prescription medicines to prescribe. And, of course, this is totally supported and re-enforced by the big pharmaceutical companies. Just think of all the anti-depressants and allergy medications that wouldn't need to be prescribed if doctors were accurately recognizing mold illnesses. I say this from personal experience as those were pretty much the solutions offered me until I was properly diagnosed (I have over a dozen unfilled prescriptions and lots of free samples for that garbage). Be well, B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 Hi , I have not been on for awhile. Hope that you are doing better since I talked to you awhile ago. You bot are right....it is very hard to find docs that know anything about mold or that are willing to admit it. Dr Alfred in ,Texas is fantastic. Thanks to KC's advice I am seeing a great doc. The news of my tests are not anything to be happy about but at least I know where I stand right now. Hope everyone is doing better or Okay!!! I'll take an okay any day. LOL!! Marcie McGovern carondeen <kdeanstudios@...> wrote: The numbers are not there because mold is not diagnosed in most cases- how many Dr's do a VCS testif you suffer from any number of 30 symptoms? NONE!I was sick for over 10 years before I figured out what was wrong with me-I met a woman who was sick her whole life from mold and only found out about it in her 60's-and for me personally-I was a totally healthy person before I had my first exposure to toxic mold- very healthy-very smart-very energized- mold took it all away > > > So why > >then would physicians be concerned about mold and or interested in learning > >more when they have been led to believe that mold has been around since the > >beginning of time and does no real harm to people? Without public pressure > >this perception will not change. Without pressure nothing in an industry > >fraught with problems will change. > > It's my belief that physicians are right. Mold does not do any real > harm to people with an intact immune system. I base this on the > numbers. If this were NOT true physicians would have no choice but to > recognize it by sheer weight of the numbers and the ensuing public > pressure. The numbers are not there so they ignore us. > > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 Marcie, I have to totally agree with you and others. I was very lucky in finding my doc, if it weren't for I would have not found him. KC and Sharon, it's great to be back and thanks for all your help and support. Darlene > > > > > So why > > >then would physicians be concerned about mold and or interested > in learning > > >more when they have been led to believe that mold has been around > since the > > >beginning of time and does no real harm to people? Without > public pressure > > >this perception will not change. Without pressure nothing in an > industry > > >fraught with problems will change. > > > > It's my belief that physicians are right. Mold does not do any real > > harm to people with an intact immune system. I base this on the > > numbers. If this were NOT true physicians would have no choice but > to > > recognize it by sheer weight of the numbers and the ensuing public > > pressure. The numbers are not there so they ignore us. > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 , It is my belief that most physicians are seeing countless numbers of patients with allergies, asthma, rashes, headaches, fatigue, GI and respiratory problems, and so many more symptoms that are due to mold exposure, but neither the doctor nor the patient has made the connection to this. It is also my belief that this very problem is also what drives a portion of the millions that have been seeking out alternative medicine and their practitioners rather than continuing to pursue traditional medicine-which generally does not recognize mold induced illness. Up until recently there has not been enough public pressure to change things. However, our numbers are growing and our voices are getting stronger. The Internet is our most powerful tool. The defense industry has used their propaganda to persuade physicians and the public that mycotoxin exposure is not harmful to human beings. However, more and more people are now making a connection on their own to symptoms they are suffering with to mold in their residence and workplace. As others point out, the consequences of physicians not being properly educated in mold exposure has prevented countless numbers of individuals from being properly diagnosed and treated. What the insurance industry does not understand is that the consequences to this has resulted in billions of dollars in unnecessary costs to them with patients constantly seeking out medical care along with the extensive testing and specialists that goes along with this. And all of this to no avail for those ill from mold exposure. Also what the AMA with traditional western doctors do not understand is that their lack of education in these areas is resulting in billions of dollars of business being lost to alternative practitioners and to alternative medicine in general. Bobbins, RN, L.Ac, QME In a message dated 1/7/2007 7:09:04 PM Central Standard Time, antares41_41@... writes: Mold does not do any real harm to people with an intact immune system. I base this on the numbers. If this were NOT true physicians would have no choice but to recognize it by sheer weight of the numbers and the ensuing public pressure. The numbers are not there so they ignore us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 >The numbers are not there because mold is not diagnosed in most cases- >how many Dr's do a VCS testif you suffer from any number of 30 >symptoms? NONE!I was sick for over 10 years before I figured out what >was wrong with me-I met a woman who was sick her whole life from mold >and only found out about it in her 60's-and for me personally-I was a >totally healthy person before I had my first exposure to toxic mold- >very healthy-very smart-very energized- mold took it all away --- In I am sure this is a very big reason for the numbers not being there. I totally agree. I figure most of the cfs and mcs and fibro, and probably gws suffer's are under the same umbrella as us. But this only lends more credence to my theory that mold alone isn't the cuase of our illness. Most cfs suffers will sight chemicals, all gws and mcs suffers sight them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 Darlene, YAY........! I am SO glad that you are back.....sometimes evils things happen and send the best of us off track...I've been there.This is the best place to be! Huggggs, Marcie darlenesb2000 <darlenesb2000@...> wrote: Marcie, I have to totally agree with you and others. I was very lucky in finding my doc, if it weren't for I would have not found him. KC and Sharon, it's great to be back and thanks for all your help and support. Darlene > > > > > So why > > >then would physicians be concerned about mold and or interested > in learning > > >more when they have been led to believe that mold has been around > since the > > >beginning of time and does no real harm to people? Without > public pressure > > >this perception will not change. Without pressure nothing in an > industry > > >fraught with problems will change. > > > > It's my belief that physicians are right. Mold does not do any real > > harm to people with an intact immune system. I base this on the > > numbers. If this were NOT true physicians would have no choice but > to > > recognize it by sheer weight of the numbers and the ensuing public > > pressure. The numbers are not there so they ignore us. > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 On Mon, 08 Jan 2007 17:30:57 -0000, you wrote: There is unfourtunally going to be this gray area that is difficult to anylize or pin down properly. I know when people are made ill by something they tend to think that everyone else is affected by it to a lesser degree. You could be entirely right but their are so many variables it's hard to tell me looking in from the outside. Word of mouth is unfroutunally not very reliable. I assume you got into a safer situation and all the below symptoms disappeard for you as well as your family members? I am relly focusing on people that have been hoplessly impaired by mold as I have. I have never known a gray area or had mild symptoms like you have described below. One day I was working 60 hour weeks out in the hot sun and doing my books at night and running my houshold and all my side businesess and lead a perfectly normal active life and 6 months later I wasn't doing any of these things. That's what I am focusing on and am seeking the answers too. >> >I disagree entirely with this statement. If you look at Shoemaker's >research, 25% of the population has the predisposition to be made ill >by mold. My entire family has those genes and the potential for >exposure, but they write off their health problems as just the way they >are and getting older. My mother takes half a dozen prescription >medications, including anti-depressants and lots of OTC nasal/sinus, >stomach remedies and headache remedies. Many people accept the >statements from these doctors (the majority sadly), that aren't >educated on the impacts and symptoms of mold related illnesses, that >there's nothing wrong with them. It took me almost 10 doctors to get >someone that could figure out there really was something wrong with me >(and my sons). Just consider all the people on medications for >asthma/allergies. Until I got Lyme disease, I considered all my (mold >related) symptoms to be just " allergies " and I considered it normal to >take all these OTC medications daily. > >Of course, I'm also part of the 3% with the dreaded genotype and >certainly we are a much smaller population and we are the ones with the >greater difficulty in getting well. However, even my oldest son, who >does not have that genotype (he's mold/low MSH), has benefitted from >the CSM protocol and mold avoidance. And, if I hadn't known better, I >would have just assumed that he was just that way (i.e., lazy and >unmotivated about school work and not interested in normal teenage >activities). If you consider all the behavior problems amongst kids >today and the number of kids on medication for ADD/ADHD, that alone >should make you realize there's clearly something these doctors haven't >figured out. (I'm not saying mold is the only contributor here, but I >can certainly make an educated estimate that at least 25% of those kids >have a problem with mold). > >Most physicians are perfectly happy to not recognize the impact of mold >illness as it gives them a steady stream of clients for whom they have >an endless supply of prescription medicines to prescribe. And, of >course, this is totally supported and re-enforced by the big >pharmaceutical companies. Just think of all the anti-depressants and >allergy medications that wouldn't need to be prescribed if doctors were >accurately recognizing mold illnesses. I say this from personal >experience as those were pretty much the solutions offered me until I >was properly diagnosed (I have over a dozen unfilled prescriptions and >lots of free samples for that garbage). > >Be well, > B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 You're welcome. Good to see you back. KC > > > > > > > So why > > > >then would physicians be concerned about mold and or interested > > in learning > > > >more when they have been led to believe that mold has been around > > since the > > > >beginning of time and does no real harm to people? Without > > public pressure > > > >this perception will not change. Without pressure nothing in an > > industry > > > >fraught with problems will change. > > > > > > It's my belief that physicians are right. Mold does not do any real > > > harm to people with an intact immune system. I base this on the > > > numbers. If this were NOT true physicians would have no choice but > > to > > > recognize it by sheer weight of the numbers and the ensuing public > > > pressure. The numbers are not there so they ignore us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 Marcie, Like I said, it is great to be back with the people who care from within their hearts about all of us that are ill. I can't thank you, KC, Sharon and Iris enough. We are here for one another. Well time to go for the night. Take care, talk soon. Huggs right back at ya. Darlene > > > > > > > So why > > > >then would physicians be concerned about mold and or interested > > in learning > > > >more when they have been led to believe that mold has been around > > since the > > > >beginning of time and does no real harm to people? Without > > public pressure > > > >this perception will not change. Without pressure nothing in an > > industry > > > >fraught with problems will change. > > > > > > It's my belief that physicians are right. Mold does not do any real > > > harm to people with an intact immune system. I base this on the > > > numbers. If this were NOT true physicians would have no choice but > > to > > > recognize it by sheer weight of the numbers and the ensuing public > > > pressure. The numbers are not there so they ignore us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 You are right, there are many variables involved, however, the pattern of illness and onset is extremely similar amongst myself, my mother and my older sister and many of the symptoms of mold illnesses are present in my siblings. I actually have a fairly large sample size with my immediate family alone as I have 6 siblings, with a total of 20+ grandchildren. As far as whether we're in the category of " hopelessly " impaired, I won't venture to guess whether I qualify (I imagine I might well if you look at my results from Shoemaker's tests), but I refuse to mentally go there. There is however some decent science from Shoemaker's research behind the genotypes, which I do happen to know for myself, my father and my sister. We're just missing one set that my mother and sister share - both my parents are mold genotypes, with my father also having nicely passed on his dreaded genotype to myself and my sister. Therefore, it is extremely logical (and quite likely) to assume that their health issues are related, particularly given that many of them live in moldy houses (with basements) and the upkeep and maintenance of their homes is abhorent. These people (myself included don't live lives with normal amounts of activity) - my mother and sister both survive on naps and if the CPS folks ever showed up at my sister's house, I can guarantee she'd end the day a few kids short - unfortunately, that's the same environment I was raised in and it took me many years to realize that wasn't normal. The effort it takes for me to get out of bed in the morning and the amount of supplements I take to keep going, that result in the semblance of living a normal life to average folks and many doctors, is extreme. I have been fortunate in that I have been able to keep my job, but that is only because of the type of work I do and the flexibility that my employer provides in terms of the ability to work from home and being a salaried employer for whom the end result is what matters. So, on my good days, I work long hours and crank out good stuff that seems to compensate for my bad days. I have to travel for work 3 times a year and that requires monumental effort - while all the other folks are out in the evenings socializing, I'm back at the hotel preparing my supplements and my meals so I can recover from the day and readying things to make it through the next day. None of this is even close to normal. The short response is that humans are amazingly adaptable and we can adjust to really adverse situations, including chronic headaches (and I mean blinding migraine), chronic stomach aches and chronic sinus problems - that ends up being our norm. In hindsight, those symptoms weren't at all mild. But, just because folks like me suffered in silence for years (my parents did take me to doctors for a while at first, but gradually grew tired of it and just decided I was a whiny child). I feel quite fortunate that I found what my problem was and am in the process of recovering, as I'm able to keep my kids from suffering like I did for over 40 years. I did manage to compensate for my problems for 42 years until Lyme hit me and then that load of toxins just pushed me right over the edge and I've been trying to crawl my way out of that hole since then. However, I'm also thankful for the Lyme in that it put the spotlight on the situation to the point that I could no longer compensate by cycling 75 miles a week, etc. It's also forced me to have a better balance of work and family life. I've got two boys to raise now and I just don't have the energy I did before to work 60+ hours and still give them quality time. So, I have to really prioritize what I do for my day job and for my family. I am now in a safer situation, but given that I'm a dreaded genotype, the symptoms are not all clear. I have the low MSH, low VEGF, etc. I am due to start the procrit trial if I get over the cold/bronchitis I seem to have caught and make it into the office so that the company nurse can give me the injections. My oldest son (non-dreaded genotype) is doing great, however, my younger son is still struggling. So, now we've got to figure out if the school is making him ill. They found mold in one of the classrooms before Thanksgiving and had it remediated, but I am very concerned about whether it was done properly and how many books are still in the classroom that were there with the mold. So, I don't see much gray at all here - it's quite clear in black in white from Shoemaker's test results and research that folks with certain genotypes are made quite ill due to mold exposure and do not recover easily. Before I became so ill myself, I had always thought my mother was a hypochondriac and I figured anyone with as many kids as my sister would be sick. I guess, you're fortunate to not have other family members impacted, so you can't so easily see the correlations that I can see, but please don't give credence to these idiotic doctors that have told so many of us on that mold can't make us this sick. Many of us have to hear that on a daily basis from family members who are in denial and the last place we need it echoed is on this list. So, indeed, we're actually both looking for answers to the same sorts of things. Be well, B. > > There is unfourtunally going to be this gray area that is difficult to > anylize or pin down properly. I know when people are made ill by > something they tend to think that everyone else is affected by it to a > lesser degree. You could be entirely right but their are so many > variables it's hard to tell me looking in from the outside. Word of > mouth is unfroutunally not very reliable. I assume you got into a > safer situation and all the below symptoms disappeard for you as well > as your family members? > I am relly focusing on people that have been hoplessly impaired by > mold as I have. I have never known a gray area or had mild symptoms > like you have described below. One day I was working 60 hour weeks out > in the hot sun and doing my books at night and running my houshold and > all my side businesess and lead a perfectly normal active life and 6 > months later I wasn't doing any of these things. That's what I am > focusing on and am seeking the answers too. > > >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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