Re: trichothecene and ammonia

[Guest guest]

Carl,

If it's true that ammonia inactivates trichothecene (and I believe that this

is correct)then it may not even be necessary to get anything wet with

ammonia solution.

Ammonia fumigation has been used to stain oak in place; maybe it will work

for mycotoxin. Have a polyethylene enclosure outside (plstic tub, box lined

with plastic drop cloths, whatever) and place a dish or two of straight

ammonia inside and something you want to fumigate alongside but not in the

liquid. Wear gloves and hold your breath! Cover the box and let the ammonia

evaporate. Leave the set up in place for an hour or two hours.Make sure no

animals or children have access to the box.

The ammonia you buy in the store is actually a solution of ammonia gas in

water. The gas itself is EXTREMELY irritating, more so than just the liquid.

You could not take a breath of it. Ammonia gas fills the sealed box and may

react with the mycotoxin.

After a time, remove the cover to air out the chamber, remove the ammonia

dishes and remove the items; air them out until the ammonia gas smell is

gone. Just check on a small scale to see that whatever you are treating is

not affected adversely by the gas. (An hour might be enough.)

Just don't let skin or any part of you come in contact with the gas.

(Ammonia gas is less dense than air so as soon as the cover is removed it

will float out.)

I have NOT tried this but see no reason it would not work for some of you.

C. May, M.A., CIAQP

May Indoor Air Investigations LLC

1522 Cambridge Street

Cambridge, MA 02139

617-354-1055

www.mayindoorair.com

www.myhouseiskillingme.com

5a. Re: Carl--

Posted by: " barb1283 " barb1283@... barb1283

Date: Thu Jan 4, 2007 10:01 am ((PST))

I worked with a pathologist that specializes in tricothecene research

and ammonia is what he said should remove tricothecenes but get the

residue of ammonia solution off by rubbing and rinsing well as residue

when dried could deposit toxins back onto surface. This seems to

match information I have gotten also.

--- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...>

wrote:

>

> Jane,

>

> I've found household ammonia works well for non-porous items. Just

use

> gloves and ventilate well. Don't dilute the already diluted

> (i.e. 'household') ammonia below 50% because then it won't destroy

all of

>

[Guest guest]

hummm, I wonder if this method would work for books.

> >

> > Jane,

> >

> > I've found household ammonia works well for non-porous items.

Just

> use

> > gloves and ventilate well. Don't dilute the already diluted

> > (i.e. 'household') ammonia below 50% because then it won't

destroy

> all of

> >

>

[Guest guest]

It is certainly worth trying to " fumigate " a book with ammonia. The gas may

affect colors so try a book you don't really care about first. Place it in

the container so that the pages are " open " to allow the gas to get to all

the surfaces. You'll have to experiment with the exposure time.

Remember, don't put your hand or face into the container before airing it

out; ammonia gas is very irritating.

The nice thing about this method, if it works, it that everything is dry

after you're done; no rinsing needed!

C. May, M.A., CIAQP

May Indoor Air Investigations LLC

1522 Cambridge Street

Cambridge, MA 02139

617-354-1055

www.mayindoorair.com

www.myhouseiskillingme.com

Re: trichothecene and ammonia

Posted by: " who " jeaninem660@... osisposis

Date: Tue Jan 9, 2007 4:34 am ((PST))

hummm, I wonder if this method would work for books.

>

>

> Carl,

>

> If it's true that ammonia inactivates trichothecene (and I believe

that this

> is correct)then it may not even be necessary to get anything wet

with

> ammonia solution.

>

> Ammonia fumigation has been used to stain oak in place; maybe it

will work for mycotoxin. [snip]

[Guest guest]

Jeff, I am not 100% sure that the ammonia acts as strong bleach, hydrogen

peroxide, etc. does in this situation and detoxifies the mycotoxins. It may

act as a solvent/degreaser. One expert (Dr. Croft) says it inactivates

mycotoxins, another (Dr. Straus) said that he didn't know how effcicatious

it would be. He recommends bleach and soap.

But its certainly worth trying, if you have the courage.. (I don't)

On 1/9/07, Jeff May <jeff@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> It is certainly worth trying to " fumigate " a book with ammonia. The gas

> may

> affect colors so try a book you don't really care about first. Place it in

>

> the container so that the pages are " open " to allow the gas to get to all

> the surfaces. You'll have to experiment with the exposure time.

>

> Remember, don't put your hand or face into the container before airing it

> out; ammonia gas is very irritating.

>

> The nice thing about this method, if it works, it that everything is dry

> after you're done; no rinsing needed!

>

> C. May, M.A., CIAQP

> May Indoor Air Investigations LLC

> 1522 Cambridge Street

> Cambridge, MA 02139

> 617-354-1055

> www.mayindoorair.com

> www.myhouseiskillingme.com

>

> Re: trichothecene and ammonia

> Posted by: " who " jeaninem660@...

<jeaninem660%40sbcglobal.net>osisposis

> Date: Tue Jan 9, 2007 4:34 am ((PST))

>

> hummm, I wonder if this method would work for books.

> >

> >

> > Carl,

> >

> > If it's true that ammonia inactivates trichothecene (and I believe

> that this

> > is correct)then it may not even be necessary to get anything wet

> with

> > ammonia solution.

> >

> > Ammonia fumigation has been used to stain oak in place; maybe it

> will work for mycotoxin. [snip]

>

>

[Guest guest]

Are not Quats? the type of ammonia that deactivattes (perhaps)

mycotoxins? Are they not different than regular ammonia? Scrubbing

items or soaking clothes with 2 cups of ammonia has not worked for me-

I will try the gas trick and get back to you in a couple of weeks-I

use a large K-mart tub out of doors with a strong ozonater in it- on

full blast it does the trick in a couple of weeks.-Never do this

indoors-it is bad to breath and if the items have spores it can cause

a myco release that could get out of hand indoors.

>

>

> Carl,

>

> If it's true that ammonia inactivates trichothecene (and I believe

that this

> is correct)then it may not even be necessary to get anything wet

with

> ammonia solution.

>

> Ammonia fumigation has been used to stain oak in place; maybe it

will work

> for mycotoxin. Have a polyethylene enclosure outside (plstic tub,

box lined

> with plastic drop cloths, whatever) and place a dish or two of

straight

> ammonia inside and something you want to fumigate alongside but not

in the

> liquid. Wear gloves and hold your breath! Cover the box and let the

ammonia

> evaporate. Leave the set up in place for an hour or two hours.Make

sure no

> animals or children have access to the box.

>

> The ammonia you buy in the store is actually a solution of ammonia

gas in

> water. The gas itself is EXTREMELY irritating, more so than just

the liquid.

> You could not take a breath of it. Ammonia gas fills the sealed box

and may

> react with the mycotoxin.

>

> After a time, remove the cover to air out the chamber, remove the

ammonia

> dishes and remove the items; air them out until the ammonia gas

smell is

> gone. Just check on a small scale to see that whatever you are

treating is

> not affected adversely by the gas. (An hour might be enough.)

>

> Just don't let skin or any part of you come in contact with the

gas.

> (Ammonia gas is less dense than air so as soon as the cover is

removed it

> will float out.)

>

> I have NOT tried this but see no reason it would not work for some

of you.

>

> C. May, M.A., CIAQP

> May Indoor Air Investigations LLC

> 1522 Cambridge Street

> Cambridge, MA 02139

> 617-354-1055

> www.mayindoorair.com

> www.myhouseiskillingme.com

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Jeff, I will try it and let you know if it works. yes, when I

washed the book covers with a damp rag dipped in ammonia and water,

the color did bleed off and they were very sticky, had to dry them

very well. I left many of my antique book collection in the moldy

home and they are probably beyond saveing now.

last time I went in there mold spots were growing on everything.

but I did try to save some of the best ones and still have them

stored in containers.just can't tolerate opening them to read. hope

this works.

> >

> >

> > Carl,

> >

> > If it's true that ammonia inactivates trichothecene (and I

believe

> that this

> > is correct)then it may not even be necessary to get anything wet

> with

> > ammonia solution.

> >

> > Ammonia fumigation has been used to stain oak in place; maybe it

> will work for mycotoxin. [snip]

>

[Guest guest]

Ammonia is the only thing you would get a gas that could travel into

small places, not hydrogen peroxide or bleach. What is Dr Straus's

background? Dr Croft works mainly with tricothecene toxins to my

knowledge. He said spray everything with ammonia before putting it

into storage for me. He didn't say wiping down was necessary, but

someone else suggested ideal would be to get rid of all the ammonia

afterwards so no toxins could redeposit if using it to remove them. I

think that is a good idea if possible.

I was concerned about using ammonia on the hardwood floors here so I

put a dish of ammonia in empty bedroom I haven't moved into yet, put

ceiling fan on low to move it around, and closed the door on room, and

ammonia smell has lasted several days. It needs to be cleaned better

since it is the room where a window air conditioner was.

--- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...>

wrote:

>

> Jeff, I am not 100% sure that the ammonia acts as strong bleach,

hydrogen

> peroxide, etc. does in this situation and detoxifies the

[Guest guest]

Info on Dr.Straus:

http://www.ttuhsc.edu/SOM/Microbiology/mainweb/straus.html

> >

> > Jeff, I am not 100% sure that the ammonia acts as strong bleach,

> hydrogen

> > peroxide, etc. does in this situation and detoxifies the

>

[Guest guest]

If you spray the ammonia with a paint sprayer with an atomizer tip on

it, it's an extremely fine mist. We did it in our whole house, walls,

wood floors, everything. Didn't hurt the wood at all. Use the proper

respirator cartridges.

We unknowingly got into a motel with mold last month, got out within

3-5 minutes but didn't want to take any chances. (Have been reexposed

before, took months to get over it). Went to the nearest grocery,

bought a bottle of ammonia & small sprayer. Stood in the parking lot

and sprayed each other (50/50 ammonia & water)- then all of our

luggage. No one got sick like before. After our previous 15-20 min

re-exposure in July (motel, also) it took our son until Jan to recover

- he missed 6 months of work.

> >

> > Jeff, I am not 100% sure that the ammonia acts as strong bleach,

> hydrogen

> > peroxide, etc. does in this situation and detoxifies the

>

[Guest guest]

I keep a spray bottle with water and ammonia around and sometimes

just spay down the air in my apartment if i fell something is getting

to me. it's like 10-A/90-w works great to deoterize sence i cant

tolerate anything else. also with some hits i've found that getting

in the shower and changeing cloths stop the worsening of the

effects.plus washing sinuses, but be careful if your legs are weak

and wobbly.

> > >

> > > Jeff, I am not 100% sure that the ammonia acts as strong

bleach,

> > hydrogen

> > > peroxide, etc. does in this situation and detoxifies the

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I'm getting confused. Does anyone know what will deaminate

mycotoxins? I mean common things that one could use on a household

basis. Not 2000 degree F heat.

I thought ammonia did, and H2O2, and Ozone, maybe UV light. No?

Btw, where does one get ammonia? The kind I see at the grocery store

has soap suds in it.

TIA,

Zippy

-----------------------------------------------------------------

>

> If you spray the ammonia with a paint sprayer with an atomizer tip on

> it, it's an extremely fine mist. We did it in our whole house, walls,

> wood floors, everything. Didn't hurt the wood at all. Use the proper

> respirator cartridges.

> We unknowingly got into a motel with mold last month, got out within

> 3-5 minutes but didn't want to take any chances. (Have been reexposed

> before, took months to get over it). Went to the nearest grocery,

> bought a bottle of ammonia & small sprayer. Stood in the parking lot

> and sprayed each other (50/50 ammonia & water)- then all of our

> luggage. No one got sick like before. After our previous 15-20 min

> re-exposure in July (motel, also) it took our son until Jan to recover

> - he missed 6 months of work.

>

[Guest guest]

If some one could find something that would de-activate myco-toxins

for sure, under all circumstances-we would have no problems. Does not

exiat so far.

karen

> >

> > If you spray the ammonia with a paint sprayer with an atomizer

tip on

> > it, it's an extremely fine mist. We did it in our whole house,

walls,

> > wood floors, everything. Didn't hurt the wood at all. Use the

proper

> > respirator cartridges.

> > We unknowingly got into a motel with mold last month, got out

within

> > 3-5 minutes but didn't want to take any chances. (Have been

reexposed

> > before, took months to get over it). Went to the nearest grocery,

> > bought a bottle of ammonia & small sprayer. Stood in the parking

lot

> > and sprayed each other (50/50 ammonia & water)- then all of our

> > luggage. No one got sick like before. After our previous 15-20 min

> > re-exposure in July (motel, also) it took our son until Jan to

recover

> > - he missed 6 months of work.

> >

>