Re: Psychologist's misdiagnoses

[Guest guest]

Although many of us have had bad experiences with SOME doctors, some others

stand out as being good under extremely difficult conditions. I mean, they

are on the front lines of a war, seriously.

I think its important to point out that to me, its clearly the system and

not the doctors who are broken right now.

The system that they are forced to function under is a convoluted,

dysfunctional mess that allocates six to eight minutes per patient and

siphons off one third of each heathcare dollar to enrich insurance

companies, not healthcare providers.

Even though they do business throughout the world, and people's bodies are

the same everywhere, multinationals depend on the US for the lion's share of

their profits, and US 'healthcare consumers' are basically being asked to

subsidize pharmaceutical research for the entire rest of the world.

Given that, I think its a wonder that things aren't even worse than they

are.

[Guest guest]

live, I posted this because it states how psychologists can be wrong

in theri diagnoses when a disease may be the cause of a persons

mental problems and its over looked because of lack of physical exams

and/or sometimes doctors makeing snap judgements without, yes,

spending the time needed on a patient which might include refering

them to a specialest..

I just dont think there are that many people out there that just one

day up and lose theri mind without there being as cause such as a

disease behind it enless your in a car accident or have a baseball

bat put upside your head. there are many people in this world who

have been through horrible situations and never lost theri minds over

it. it seems that many causes should be considered when or before a

shrink makes a diagnoses. many doctors seem to not be interested in

finding cause, just diagnosing a illness. it is a very sorry

situation. my question would be why? why are not all doctors

striveing to be the best they can be? why our so many people haveing

to look beyond theri own town to find a doctor? why are not all

doctors the same as the few good ones out there? because theri in a

big hurry to get as many patients through the waiting line as they

can in one day?, lack of doctors in the medical field?, lack of

communacation between doctors and scientists?, or just lack of

doctors really careing about theri patients health. is there really a

excuse for doctors not to be up on the latest medical science?

doesn't the puplic expect doctors to up be on the lastest technology

as to get the best help possible when they give theri hard earned

money away? at the least, shouldn't we get to know what we are going

to get for our money? how many doctors well honestly say " I dont know "

instead of giveing you a misdiagnoses. Why aren't all doctors just as

up on our illness as Dr. Shoemaker for example. Should we make

excuses for the ones who are not or do we expect them all to have the

same knowledge? why should we the sick have to try to fiqure out who

we should go to and take a risk of being misdiagnosed and even given

med.'s that could harm us?

people in the medical fields get paid very well and it should be

expected that they provide the service for how well theri payed.

isn't this one of the most important things in our life? if we dont

have our health what do we have?

yes, the system is broken in many ways, we have the media that are

constantly putting news out on every little study they come across or

is put in theri face regardless if its correct or not. one week its

that coffee is bad, the next week its good for you, and I dont think

any of us are stupied as to how this game works. I'd be wanting to

pull my hair out if I was a reporter. but they do have theri lawyers

to tell them what they can and cannot do. everything these days are

controlled by industries, I thought tv was meant for news and

enjoyment, not as a device for brainwashing. things that should have

news coverage aren't getting it. are doctors more conserned about if

they have better golf clubs than the next doctor or are they

conserned about saveing lives? theres really only 2 answers, either

doctors are misdiagnoseing because theri tied to a membership and

wont cross the boundries of that membership, or they dont take theri

oath seriously enough to be the best they can be and that means

continuously furthering theri knowledge in theri field and medical

science as a whole. if a few doctors can manage to do this, why

should we make excuses for the ones that do not? we expect the best

for our bucks, yet it continually is our problem when we shell out

for misdiagnoses and if that misdiagnoses causes further harm and we

are forced into malpractice suits, the doctors are protected by caps,

many who maybe should not be in the field at all.

--- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...>

wrote:

>

> Although many of us have had bad experiences with SOME doctors,

some others

> stand out as being good under extremely difficult conditions. I

mean, they

> are on the front lines of a war, seriously.

>

> I think its important to point out that to me, its clearly the

system and

> not the doctors who are broken right now.

>

> The system that they are forced to function under is a convoluted,

> dysfunctional mess that allocates six to eight minutes per patient

and

> siphons off one third of each heathcare dollar to enrich insurance

> companies, not healthcare providers.

>

> Even though they do business throughout the world, and people's

bodies are

> the same everywhere, multinationals depend on the US for the lion's

share of

> their profits, and US 'healthcare consumers' are basically being

asked to

> subsidize pharmaceutical research for the entire rest of the world.

>

> Given that, I think its a wonder that things aren't even worse than

they

> are.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It would be laughable if it wasn't so serious, but medical Dr's seem

to think their psychological diagnosis of mold victims, breast implant

victims, depleted uranium victims, agent orange victims etc. etc.

is absolute. It's air tight, There is no need for them to doubt their

selves. Although unlike other diseases where there are blood test's

and cat scans, and x-rays, and physical test's that confirm their

diagnosis beyond any reasonable doubt. Medical Dr's seem to be

perfectly content with looking into their crystal ball and saying " uga

uga boo! abra kadabra! you have a psychological problem where you just

happened to be exposed to some deadly toxic substance " Quite

hypocritical when you take into account they point their snout up

towards the sky and sneer down at alternative Dr's for using similar

techniques.

But the worst part is that their is obvious bias towards the

manufactures of these substances and a fear of questioning the safety

of these substances or giving the patient the benefit of the doubt and

insisting that regulators put the burden on the manufacture to PROVE

beyond a reasonable doubt their products are safe. And insisting on

test's and protocols to screen for these substances and eliminate or

confirm their presence in our bodies. I believe all dangerous

chemicals should have marking agent's in them so that if someone

suspects they have been exposed to the substances they can be screened

for the marking agents. Every chemical having different marking

agents. That way we could tell if an alztimers or parkinsons victims

had excessive exposure to certain substances and we could regulate it

more closely until we eliminate these horrible diseases.

Instead we have the fox running the chicken coup ie manufactures

doing the test's themselves and submitting them to agency's for a

rubber stamp. End result, unbelievably dangerous products put in

direct contact with humans and animals. No way to implicate these

substances when this happens. Millions of people horribly injured with

brain, lung, kidny, liver, pancreous, esophogus, cancers, lupus, and

alztimers, and ms, and parkinsons, lou gariks (sorry about the

spelling but you get the point) dr's making up excuses for them like

bad gene stock, poor personal hygene, etc. Than you have all the

phony's with " mental illness " SBS, GWS, MCS, agent orange, breast

implants, etc. etc. medical Dr's saying Duuhhhh! I don't know I guess

you have psychological problem where you just happened to be exposed

to that crap. The patients life is destroyed forever and the Dr's and

chemical manufactures live happily ever after. Because they are beyond

reproach and above the law, and they make the big bucks.

On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 17:28:11 -0000, you wrote:

>live, I posted this because it states how psychologists can be wrong

>in theri diagnoses when a disease may be the cause of a persons

>mental problems and its over looked because of lack of physical exams

>and/or sometimes doctors makeing snap judgements without, yes,

>spending the time needed on a patient which might include refering

>them to a specialest..

>I just dont think there are that many people out there that just one

>day up and lose theri mind without there being as cause such as a

>disease behind it enless your in a car accident or have a baseball

>bat put upside your head. there are many people in this world who

>have been through horrible situations and never lost theri minds over

>it. it seems that many causes should be considered when or before a

>shrink makes a diagnoses. many doctors seem to not be interested in

>finding cause, just diagnosing a illness. it is a very sorry

>situation. my question would be why? why are not all doctors

>striveing to be the best they can be? why our so many people haveing

>to look beyond theri own town to find a doctor? why are not all

>doctors the same as the few good ones out there? because theri in a

>big hurry to get as many patients through the waiting line as they

>can in one day?, lack of doctors in the medical field?, lack of

>communacation between doctors and scientists?, or just lack of

>doctors really careing about theri patients health. is there really a

>excuse for doctors not to be up on the latest medical science?

>doesn't the puplic expect doctors to up be on the lastest technology

>as to get the best help possible when they give theri hard earned

>money away? at the least, shouldn't we get to know what we are going

>to get for our money? how many doctors well honestly say " I dont know "

>instead of giveing you a misdiagnoses. Why aren't all doctors just as

>up on our illness as Dr. Shoemaker for example. Should we make

>excuses for the ones who are not or do we expect them all to have the

>same knowledge? why should we the sick have to try to fiqure out who

>we should go to and take a risk of being misdiagnosed and even given

>med.'s that could harm us?

>people in the medical fields get paid very well and it should be

>expected that they provide the service for how well theri payed.

>isn't this one of the most important things in our life? if we dont

>have our health what do we have?

>yes, the system is broken in many ways, we have the media that are

>constantly putting news out on every little study they come across or

>is put in theri face regardless if its correct or not. one week its

>that coffee is bad, the next week its good for you, and I dont think

>any of us are stupied as to how this game works. I'd be wanting to

>pull my hair out if I was a reporter. but they do have theri lawyers

>to tell them what they can and cannot do. everything these days are

>controlled by industries, I thought tv was meant for news and

>enjoyment, not as a device for brainwashing. things that should have

>news coverage aren't getting it. are doctors more conserned about if

>they have better golf clubs than the next doctor or are they

>conserned about saveing lives? theres really only 2 answers, either

>doctors are misdiagnoseing because theri tied to a membership and

>wont cross the boundries of that membership, or they dont take theri

>oath seriously enough to be the best they can be and that means

>continuously furthering theri knowledge in theri field and medical

>science as a whole. if a few doctors can manage to do this, why

>should we make excuses for the ones that do not? we expect the best

>for our bucks, yet it continually is our problem when we shell out

>for misdiagnoses and if that misdiagnoses causes further harm and we

>are forced into malpractice suits, the doctors are protected by caps,

>many who maybe should not be in the field at all.

>--- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...>

>wrote:

>>

>> Although many of us have had bad experiences with SOME doctors,

>some others

>> stand out as being good under extremely difficult conditions. I

>mean, they

>> are on the front lines of a war, seriously.

>>

>> I think its important to point out that to me, its clearly the

>system and

>> not the doctors who are broken right now.

>>

>> The system that they are forced to function under is a convoluted,

>> dysfunctional mess that allocates six to eight minutes per patient

>and

>> siphons off one third of each heathcare dollar to enrich insurance

>> companies, not healthcare providers.

>>

>> Even though they do business throughout the world, and people's

>bodies are

>> the same everywhere, multinationals depend on the US for the lion's

>share of

>> their profits, and US 'healthcare consumers' are basically being

>asked to

>> subsidize pharmaceutical research for the entire rest of the world.

>>

>> Given that, I think its a wonder that things aren't even worse than

>they

>> are.

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

I think that a lot of doctors, if they start getting sick, generally have

the resources to do whatever it takes to get better. They don't necessarily

understand that many working people just try to keep working as long as they

can, hoping that they will get better, and NOT going to the doctor, NOT

taking days off work, so that by the time they ARE going to the doctor,

TRYING to get care - desperately, etc. they have often been sick for quite a

while, even if they don't have a paper trail to show it. They have been

hoping it would just go away, taking OTC everything, herbs, supplements,

etc. anything that they think might help, at great personal expense.

I'm also curious about what kind of health insurance, etc. doctors buy for

themselves and their families. Do they get the old style private insurance

that just pays for everything, even if it costs $1000s of dollars a month?

Then, presumably, they don't have to go through the HMO hell that many

people here go through trying to get care.

Or maybe they can afford to pay other professionals completely out of pocket

when they are sick.

Also, I wonder how many people here on this list don't have health insurance

of any kind and how they get care? Does that mean that nomatter how sick

they are from mold, they can't get cholestyramine, for example?

There should be some kind of program they can go to to just get that, at

least. A foundation or something. It would help many people a lot.

[Guest guest]

I dropped my insurance 8 years ago, couldn't see spending $110 a month

when I had no income coming in. Haven't seen anyone except the paid

whores that work for ssi since.

None of the Dr's I saw were of any help. Neither of the 2

environmental Dr's even mentioned mold. This was 8 years ago before

mold was in all the news.

I was told to avoid chemicals and scented items.

My dad (a Dr) hate's insurance, I don't think he even ever got any

until he turned 69 and got on Medicare.

On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 15:05:31 -0500, you wrote:

>I think that a lot of doctors, if they start getting sick, generally have

>the resources to do whatever it takes to get better. They don't necessarily

>understand that many working people just try to keep working as long as they

>can, hoping that they will get better, and NOT going to the doctor, NOT

>taking days off work, so that by the time they ARE going to the doctor,

>TRYING to get care - desperately, etc. they have often been sick for quite a

>while, even if they don't have a paper trail to show it. They have been

>hoping it would just go away, taking OTC everything, herbs, supplements,

>etc. anything that they think might help, at great personal expense.

>

>I'm also curious about what kind of health insurance, etc. doctors buy for

>themselves and their families. Do they get the old style private insurance

>that just pays for everything, even if it costs $1000s of dollars a month?

>

>Then, presumably, they don't have to go through the HMO hell that many

>people here go through trying to get care.

>

>Or maybe they can afford to pay other professionals completely out of pocket

>when they are sick.

>

>Also, I wonder how many people here on this list don't have health insurance

>of any kind and how they get care? Does that mean that nomatter how sick

>they are from mold, they can't get cholestyramine, for example?

>

>There should be some kind of program they can go to to just get that, at

>least. A foundation or something. It would help many people a lot.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I believe it is best to try and act as " normal " as possible around these people.

If you present as fairly normal they will look for the cause of symptoms.

Whenever I call my doctor's nurses now I am the picture postcard of calmness.

Whereas as if I am panicy, they see it as the problem. Please do not attack me

folks, it a system out there it seems. So go calmly.

Christ <antares@...> wrote: It would be laughable

if it wasn't so serious, but medical Dr's seem

to think their psychological diagnosis of mold victims, breast implant

victims, depleted uranium victims, agent orange victims etc. etc.

is absolute. It's air tight, There is no need for them to doubt their

selves. Although unlike other diseases where there are blood test's

and cat scans, and x-rays, and physical test's that confirm their

diagnosis beyond any reasonable doubt. Medical Dr's seem to be

perfectly content with looking into their crystal ball and saying " uga

uga boo! abra kadabra! you have a psychological problem where you just

happened to be exposed to some deadly toxic substance " Quite

hypocritical when you take into account they point their snout up

towards the sky and sneer down at alternative Dr's for using similar

techniques.

But the worst part is that their is obvious bias towards the

manufactures of these substances and a fear of questioning the safety

of these substances or giving the patient the benefit of the doubt and

insisting that regulators put the burden on the manufacture to PROVE

beyond a reasonable doubt their products are safe. And insisting on

test's and protocols to screen for these substances and eliminate or

confirm their presence in our bodies. I believe all dangerous

chemicals should have marking agent's in them so that if someone

suspects they have been exposed to the substances they can be screened

for the marking agents. Every chemical having different marking

agents. That way we could tell if an alztimers or parkinsons victims

had excessive exposure to certain substances and we could regulate it

more closely until we eliminate these horrible diseases.

Instead we have the fox running the chicken coup ie manufactures

doing the test's themselves and submitting them to agency's for a

rubber stamp. End result, unbelievably dangerous products put in

direct contact with humans and animals. No way to implicate these

substances when this happens. Millions of people horribly injured with

brain, lung, kidny, liver, pancreous, esophogus, cancers, lupus, and

alztimers, and ms, and parkinsons, lou gariks (sorry about the

spelling but you get the point) dr's making up excuses for them like

bad gene stock, poor personal hygene, etc. Than you have all the

phony's with " mental illness " SBS, GWS, MCS, agent orange, breast

implants, etc. etc. medical Dr's saying Duuhhhh! I don't know I guess

you have psychological problem where you just happened to be exposed

to that crap. The patients life is destroyed forever and the Dr's and

chemical manufactures live happily ever after. Because they are beyond

reproach and above the law, and they make the big bucks.

On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 17:28:11 -0000, you wrote:

>live, I posted this because it states how psychologists can be wrong

>in theri diagnoses when a disease may be the cause of a persons

>mental problems and its over looked because of lack of physical exams

>and/or sometimes doctors makeing snap judgements without, yes,

>spending the time needed on a patient which might include refering

>them to a specialest..

>I just dont think there are that many people out there that just one

>day up and lose theri mind without there being as cause such as a

>disease behind it enless your in a car accident or have a baseball

>bat put upside your head. there are many people in this world who

>have been through horrible situations and never lost theri minds over

>it. it seems that many causes should be considered when or before a

>shrink makes a diagnoses. many doctors seem to not be interested in

>finding cause, just diagnosing a illness. it is a very sorry

>situation. my question would be why? why are not all doctors

>striveing to be the best they can be? why our so many people haveing

>to look beyond theri own town to find a doctor? why are not all

>doctors the same as the few good ones out there? because theri in a

>big hurry to get as many patients through the waiting line as they

>can in one day?, lack of doctors in the medical field?, lack of

>communacation between doctors and scientists?, or just lack of

>doctors really careing about theri patients health. is there really a

>excuse for doctors not to be up on the latest medical science?

>doesn't the puplic expect doctors to up be on the lastest technology

>as to get the best help possible when they give theri hard earned

>money away? at the least, shouldn't we get to know what we are going

>to get for our money? how many doctors well honestly say " I dont know "

>instead of giveing you a misdiagnoses. Why aren't all doctors just as

>up on our illness as Dr. Shoemaker for example. Should we make

>excuses for the ones who are not or do we expect them all to have the

>same knowledge? why should we the sick have to try to fiqure out who

>we should go to and take a risk of being misdiagnosed and even given

>med.'s that could harm us?

>people in the medical fields get paid very well and it should be

>expected that they provide the service for how well theri payed.

>isn't this one of the most important things in our life? if we dont

>have our health what do we have?

>yes, the system is broken in many ways, we have the media that are

>constantly putting news out on every little study they come across or

>is put in theri face regardless if its correct or not. one week its

>that coffee is bad, the next week its good for you, and I dont think

>any of us are stupied as to how this game works. I'd be wanting to

>pull my hair out if I was a reporter. but they do have theri lawyers

>to tell them what they can and cannot do. everything these days are

>controlled by industries, I thought tv was meant for news and

>enjoyment, not as a device for brainwashing. things that should have

>news coverage aren't getting it. are doctors more conserned about if

>they have better golf clubs than the next doctor or are they

>conserned about saveing lives? theres really only 2 answers, either

>doctors are misdiagnoseing because theri tied to a membership and

>wont cross the boundries of that membership, or they dont take theri

>oath seriously enough to be the best they can be and that means

>continuously furthering theri knowledge in theri field and medical

>science as a whole. if a few doctors can manage to do this, why

>should we make excuses for the ones that do not? we expect the best

>for our bucks, yet it continually is our problem when we shell out

>for misdiagnoses and if that misdiagnoses causes further harm and we

>are forced into malpractice suits, the doctors are protected by caps,

>many who maybe should not be in the field at all.

>--- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...>

>wrote:

>>

>> Although many of us have had bad experiences with SOME doctors,

>some others

>> stand out as being good under extremely difficult conditions. I

>mean, they

>> are on the front lines of a war, seriously.

>>

>> I think its important to point out that to me, its clearly the

>system and

>> not the doctors who are broken right now.

>>

>> The system that they are forced to function under is a convoluted,

>> dysfunctional mess that allocates six to eight minutes per patient

>and

>> siphons off one third of each heathcare dollar to enrich insurance

>> companies, not healthcare providers.

>>

>> Even though they do business throughout the world, and people's

>bodies are

>> the same everywhere, multinationals depend on the US for the lion's

>share of

>> their profits, and US 'healthcare consumers' are basically being

>asked to

>> subsidize pharmaceutical research for the entire rest of the world.

>>

>> Given that, I think its a wonder that things aren't even worse than

>they

>> are.

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

ok, I wont attack you, but why dont you just think real hard about

the implacations of what you just said, while some people are very

ill, to ill to fake anything. if we want this illness and it's

complete range of severity to ever be reconized maybe acting is the

last thing that we should be thinking about. if I remember right you

are still in your moldy environment yet you try to appear as normal

as possible on the phone? what would you tell those that are

suffering through this who dont have a clue whats even causeing it

yet?

>

> >live, I posted this because it states how psychologists can be

wrong

> >in theri diagnoses when a disease may be the cause of a persons

> >mental problems and its over looked because of lack of physical

exams

> >and/or sometimes doctors makeing snap judgements without, yes,

> >spending the time needed on a patient which might include refering

> >them to a specialest..

> >I just dont think there are that many people out there that just

one

> >day up and lose theri mind without there being as cause such as a

> >disease behind it enless your in a car accident or have a baseball

> >bat put upside your head. there are many people in this world who

> >have been through horrible situations and never lost theri minds

over

> >it. it seems that many causes should be considered when or before

a

> >shrink makes a diagnoses. many doctors seem to not be interested

in

> >finding cause, just diagnosing a illness. it is a very sorry

> >situation. my question would be why? why are not all doctors

> >striveing to be the best they can be? why our so many people

haveing

> >to look beyond theri own town to find a doctor? why are not all

> >doctors the same as the few good ones out there? because theri in

a

> >big hurry to get as many patients through the waiting line as they

> >can in one day?, lack of doctors in the medical field?, lack of

> >communacation between doctors and scientists?, or just lack of

> >doctors really careing about theri patients health. is there

really a

> >excuse for doctors not to be up on the latest medical science?

> >doesn't the puplic expect doctors to up be on the lastest

technology

> >as to get the best help possible when they give theri hard earned

> >money away? at the least, shouldn't we get to know what we are

going

> >to get for our money? how many doctors well honestly say " I dont

know "

> >instead of giveing you a misdiagnoses. Why aren't all doctors just

as

> >up on our illness as Dr. Shoemaker for example. Should we make

> >excuses for the ones who are not or do we expect them all to have

the

> >same knowledge? why should we the sick have to try to fiqure out

who

> >we should go to and take a risk of being misdiagnosed and even

given

> >med.'s that could harm us?

> >people in the medical fields get paid very well and it should be

> >expected that they provide the service for how well theri payed.

> >isn't this one of the most important things in our life? if we

dont

> >have our health what do we have?

> >yes, the system is broken in many ways, we have the media that are

> >constantly putting news out on every little study they come across

or

> >is put in theri face regardless if its correct or not. one week

its

> >that coffee is bad, the next week its good for you, and I dont

think

> >any of us are stupied as to how this game works. I'd be wanting to

> >pull my hair out if I was a reporter. but they do have theri

lawyers

> >to tell them what they can and cannot do. everything these days

are

> >controlled by industries, I thought tv was meant for news and

> >enjoyment, not as a device for brainwashing. things that should

have

> >news coverage aren't getting it. are doctors more conserned about

if

> >they have better golf clubs than the next doctor or are they

> >conserned about saveing lives? theres really only 2 answers,

either

> >doctors are misdiagnoseing because theri tied to a membership and

> >wont cross the boundries of that membership, or they dont take

theri

> >oath seriously enough to be the best they can be and that means

> >continuously furthering theri knowledge in theri field and medical

> >science as a whole. if a few doctors can manage to do this, why

> >should we make excuses for the ones that do not? we expect the

best

> >for our bucks, yet it continually is our problem when we shell out

> >for misdiagnoses and if that misdiagnoses causes further harm and

we

> >are forced into malpractice suits, the doctors are protected by

caps,

> >many who maybe should not be in the field at all.

> >--- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@>

> >wrote:

> >>

> >> Although many of us have had bad experiences with SOME doctors,

> >some others

> >> stand out as being good under extremely difficult conditions. I

> >mean, they

> >> are on the front lines of a war, seriously.

> >>

> >> I think its important to point out that to me, its clearly the

> >system and

> >> not the doctors who are broken right now.

> >>

> >> The system that they are forced to function under is a

convoluted,

> >> dysfunctional mess that allocates six to eight minutes per

patient

> >and

> >> siphons off one third of each heathcare dollar to enrich

insurance

> >> companies, not healthcare providers.

> >>

> >> Even though they do business throughout the world, and people's

> >bodies are

> >> the same everywhere, multinationals depend on the US for the

lion's

> >share of

> >> their profits, and US 'healthcare consumers' are basically being

> >asked to

> >> subsidize pharmaceutical research for the entire rest of the

world.

> >>

> >> Given that, I think its a wonder that things aren't even worse

than

> >they

> >> are.

> >>

> >>

> >>

[Guest guest]

>ok, I wont attack you, but why dont you just think real hard about

the implacations of what you just said, while some people are very

ill, to ill to fake anything.

> if we want this illness and it's complete range of severity to ever be

recognized maybe acting is the

last thing that we should be thinking about.

YES, I agree 100%.

Its ESPECIALLY

important to speak up when the medical professionals are not listening

to you. And its also really important to get YOUR account of what

has been happening to you into your medical record. When I got

my medical records they were missing a LOT of things that I know that I had

told my doctor about.

Luckily I remember them. But they are not in the record, which cripples

future doctors from knowing

things unless I tell them. And how could I possibly remember it all. Nobody

could.

Also, we tend to let the doctor steer the conversation and before you know

it, they are getting ready to go.

We need some kind of form that we can fill out at home, ourselves, and

formally submit

it in that six to eight minute appointment so that at least people are on

the record as

having told them about things.

Then WE should have THEM sign as having received it.

EVEN IF THEY DON'T LISTEN, it might make them

think twice about ignoring symptoms that don't fit into their theory of what

is making us ill. Which, as Jeanine has pointed out in the studies she has

posted (THANK YOU) is what has been documented as happening in that

situation.

Seriously.

[Guest guest]

Live Simply, I think this is *excellent idea*. For one thing I

frequently forget what I was going to say anyway so that would be

helpful. For another thing I have also gotten copies of doctors notes

only to find that they wrote down symptoms that I didn't say I had and

left out others, in one case, everything he wrote that I said yes to,

in fact I had said no to. I believe many doctors notate things

thinking that the patient will never read them BUT insurance company

may and their notes are more for insurance company, to legitimize

expense of tests or prescription. Of course this totally makes the

patient history notes he takes useless to patient and can steer their

entire medical care in wrong direction if read by others caring for

them.

I think though asking them to sign will get one some hostility but

then perhaps that would be good indication you are seeing wrong

doctor. I don't know. I admit I would be a bit timid about that

part.

--- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...>

wrote:

>

> We need some kind of form that we can fill out at home, ourselves,

and

> formally submit

> it in that six to eight minute appointment so that at least people

are on

> the record as

> having told them about things.

[Guest guest]

It could be a paper form that people just print out and make copies of,

then bring two copies with them, one to leave with them and one to keep.

Maybe a web app to help people generate these forms would be useful.. I

don't know. Just to print out, I don't think that it would be good to store

anything.

Both people could sign two copies of this form, so the person would have a

record

and the doctor would have a record too.

But I don't know.. this is probably a fantasy on several levels. I wasn't

able to be this organized when I was at my sickest and I'm embarassed to

admit this, but I still have problems being anything even approaching this

level of organization now. (But who knows. .. I'm trying to get better.)

But if there was a web page that 'organized' " my mold dairy " and " my medical

data " in some kind of structured way and then generated a 'just sign this'

PDF that would be helpful.

Is this a pipe dream? Would doctors say 'no way'. They would probably just

refuse or ask the patient to 'just leave it' without signing anything, then

forget it.

I don't have a lot of experience with asking doctors things like this but I

do have experience with scientists and trying to get them to follow similar

kinds of scripts and they can be primadonnas at times.. basically, it can

work but things need to be kept as simple as possible in order to get the

job done.

Are any doctors listening here, now? Is this idea at all workable?

[Guest guest]

I had health insurance when it all started and I realized what was making me

sick. But it took awhile to find a dr. who believed in mold illness - and I kept

getting sicker until I lost my job. I was able to continue the insurance under

COBRA for 1 year, and then private for another year - all paid for with 401k

withdrawals. For the past year I have not had any insurance, can't afford local

Drs. who believe but still want to treat symptoms with asthma meds; let alone

travel to see someone with an actual treatment protocol. It's a real catch 22 to

try to work enough for money to get treatment when you are sick. On top of that,

the more time I spend on work, the more exposure to VOC's that trigger MCS &

brain fog - making me feel sicker and work slower. A vicious circle.

[Guest guest]

OMGOSH , you nailed that one! I had post partum psychosis after

the birth of my twins & now, 7 yrs. later, the dr.s treat me as if it

was yesterday. It has hampered my ability to be taken seriously & I

may not be as sick as I am today, if I didn't have that stigma attached

to my med. record. And a similar situation: I flew to Atlanta to see

one of the top Explant Plastic Surgeon's in our country. She tells me

I'm ill from mycotoxins from my breast implants. Here you have a MD

who has build her practice around treating women ill from implants. I

come back home & my small town doc completely dismisses what I was told

in Atlanta, " your implants have nothing to do with your illnesses, " yet

she admits, " she doesn't know what she's treating " !!!!!!!!

If my mind was still functioning like it was when I was working, it

wouldn't be so bad, but trying to sift through all these symptoms &

having to self diagnose can create more questions than one started with.

Cheryl

[Guest guest]

your welcome Live, I might not be the best mentally functional

person, but I'm bullheaded as heck and I hate not haveing answers.

when life gives you lemons, make lemonade.

>

> >ok, I wont attack you, but why dont you just think real hard about

> the implacations of what you just said, while some people are very

> ill, to ill to fake anything.

>

> > if we want this illness and it's complete range of severity to

ever be

> recognized maybe acting is the

> last thing that we should be thinking about.

>

> YES, I agree 100%.

>

> Its ESPECIALLY

> important to speak up when the medical professionals are not

listening

> to you. And its also really important to get YOUR account of what

> has been happening to you into your medical record. When I got

> my medical records they were missing a LOT of things that I know

that I had

> told my doctor about.

>

> Luckily I remember them. But they are not in the record, which

cripples

> future doctors from knowing

> things unless I tell them. And how could I possibly remember it

all. Nobody

> could.

>

> Also, we tend to let the doctor steer the conversation and before

you know

> it, they are getting ready to go.

>

> We need some kind of form that we can fill out at home, ourselves,

and

> formally submit

> it in that six to eight minute appointment so that at least people

are on

> the record as

> having told them about things.

>

> Then WE should have THEM sign as having received it.

>

> EVEN IF THEY DON'T LISTEN, it might make them

> think twice about ignoring symptoms that don't fit into their

theory of what

> is making us ill. Which, as Jeanine has pointed out in the studies

she has

> posted (THANK YOU) is what has been documented as happening in that

> situation.

>

> Seriously.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I would love to drop my insurance policy because all the help for me

has come from outside the system, even before mold illness, but I'm

afraid a hospital trip due to emergency would cost me my home, so I

pay it.

--- In , Christ <antares@...>

wrote:

>

> I dropped my insurance 8 years ago, couldn't see spending $110 a

month

> when I had no income coming in. Haven't seen anyone except the paid

> whores that work for ssi since.

> None of the Dr's I saw were of any help.

[Guest guest]

Its clear that depression is often caused by the inability of the brain to

grow new cells.. (look up the neurogenic theory of depression) So toxins

like mold toxins increasingly are realized as CAUSING depression - as well

as causing other kinds of cell damage and immune system reactions to them.

The brain needs to grow new cells, not just to integrate new memories at the

end of each day, but also to repair itself from the damages caused by free

radicals which are caused by the thinking process itself. Thats one of the

reasons we sleep and its why getting good rest is so important. Lack of

sleep basically ages one prematurely.

Immune system reactions to mold are typical of responses to serious toxins,

which are learned by the immune system when it is injured. The reaction that

doctors call 'hypersensitivity' is just your body marshalling its defenses

to fight a life threat that IT takes very seriously.

Thats the system that we have evolved and it serves us well. Its why life is

still around on this planet after millions of years. So when our bodies tell

us we need to get away from mold we really should take it seriously and not

try to treat away the symptoms. Otherwise we are risking getting even sicker

than we already are. Sure this causes stress. Bosses often don't understand

that you can't work in buildings with mold. Or you try to deal with bad

situations which can screw you up even more.

Long term stress also causes depression. Which shrinks your hippocampus and

permanently damages your working memory.

Thats not something thats debated, its proven science. So anything that

causes that kind of stress damages the brain. Stressors don't have to be

mold directly. Things like the stress of getting very sick and the

heartbreak of losing relationships, homes, jobs, etc. that come out of mold

illness are important to consider. Lack of sleep is a factor too. (say, from

fungal sinusitis) The getting sick happens first, and then many bad things

happen as a result of that. To try to say that those things are not caused

by mold ignores the fact that mold makes people sick, whatever the

mechanism.

[Guest guest]

Cheryl,

I would suggest that you do some searches on goggle on implants if

you haven't already done so and join any list's or forms on them. My

suspicion is they are a lot safer now than they were back in the late

70's and early to mid 80's but this is all speculation on my part.

When Dr's insist they are safe they are giving you a false sense of

security. But just like chemicals and pesticides (they make similar

claims about) they are speaking from a different part of their

anatomy than their mouth.

The fact is that the reason they " are safe " is because when people are

horribly injured by these things they can never prove it, thus it

never gets the bad reputation it deserves. My injury due to wholesale

exposure to dursban never got acknowledged by any agency. People

naively think when things like this happen bureaucrats dutifully

record these event's. Couldn't be farther from the truth though.

Sounds to me like your sick from mold exposure also and might need to

move.

Yes it's very hard to overcome MD's " retarded disconnect " with

reality. That's what makes me so angry with them.

I

On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 16:31:39 -0000, you wrote:

>OMGOSH , you nailed that one! I had post partum psychosis after

>the birth of my twins & now, 7 yrs. later, the dr.s treat me as if it

>was yesterday. It has hampered my ability to be taken seriously & I

>may not be as sick as I am today, if I didn't have that stigma attached

>to my med. record. And a similar situation: I flew to Atlanta to see

>one of the top Explant Plastic Surgeon's in our country. She tells me

>I'm ill from mycotoxins from my breast implants. Here you have a MD

>who has build her practice around treating women ill from implants. I

>come back home & my small town doc completely dismisses what I was told

>in Atlanta, " your implants have nothing to do with your illnesses, " yet

>she admits, " she doesn't know what she's treating " !!!!!!!!

>

>If my mind was still functioning like it was when I was working, it

>wouldn't be so bad, but trying to sift through all these symptoms &

>having to self diagnose can create more questions than one started with.

>Cheryl

[Guest guest]

everytime I go to a regular doctor, no matter if it is my family doctor who

should be looking at the whole body, they always say uhhh a such and such would

look at that symptoma and you just get passed along and nobody ever talks with

one another.

Christ <antares@...> wrote:

Cheryl,

I would suggest that you do some searches on goggle on implants if

you haven't already done so and join any list's or forms on them. My

suspicion is they are a lot safer now than they were back in the late

70's and early to mid 80's but this is all speculation on my part.

When Dr's insist they are safe they are giving you a false sense of

security. But just like chemicals and pesticides (they make similar

claims about) they are speaking from a different part of their

anatomy than their mouth.

The fact is that the reason they " are safe " is because when people are

horribly injured by these things they can never prove it, thus it

never gets the bad reputation it deserves. My injury due to wholesale

exposure to dursban never got acknowledged by any agency. People

naively think when things like this happen bureaucrats dutifully

record these event's. Couldn't be farther from the truth though.

Sounds to me like your sick from mold exposure also and might need to

move.

Yes it's very hard to overcome MD's " retarded disconnect " with

reality. That's what makes me so angry with them.

I

On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 16:31:39 -0000, you wrote:

>OMGOSH , you nailed that one! I had post partum psychosis after

>the birth of my twins & now, 7 yrs. later, the dr.s treat me as if it

>was yesterday. It has hampered my ability to be taken seriously & I

>may not be as sick as I am today, if I didn't have that stigma attached

>to my med. record. And a similar situation: I flew to Atlanta to see

>one of the top Explant Plastic Surgeon's in our country. She tells me

>I'm ill from mycotoxins from my breast implants. Here you have a MD

>who has build her practice around treating women ill from implants. I

>come back home & my small town doc completely dismisses what I was told

>in Atlanta, " your implants have nothing to do with your illnesses, " yet

>she admits, " she doesn't know what she's treating " !!!!!!!!

>

>If my mind was still functioning like it was when I was working, it

>wouldn't be so bad, but trying to sift through all these symptoms &

>having to self diagnose can create more questions than one started with.

>Cheryl

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