Re: Some thoughts on Unraveling the heart knot

[Guest guest]

Hi Steve,

That is pretty amazing stuff about katie, I didn't know that, is

there anywhere to get a copy of 'Cry in the Desert' at a reasonable

price anymore? Or if someone would be nice enough to scan it in and

share it that would be great too.

Mark

>

> It has been said: " belief systems are sicknesses to be cured by the

> medicine of emptiness. "

>

> What Buddhists refer to as " Unraveling the heart knot " ,

refers

> to as " Doing The Work " or " undoing yourself " .

>

> You will not get rid of your heart knots by ascribing to a

> new " belief system " or joining an old one. All of the world's

> religions or belief systems are inherently flawed, because they are

> too focused upon being Buddhists or Christians or Muslims or Jews.

>

> This state of emptiness is achieved by the undoing of our belief

> system, even if the belief system happens to be The Work, itself or

> if the belief system seems to be the one who thinks they are doing

> The Work.

>

> did not know about Gurus so she created an old woman (see " A

> Cry In The Desert " ) who would come to her and take her through all

> the universes. I asked about her " old lady in the gingham

> dress " and said " She stayed with me as long as I needed her.

> She showed me all the secrets of everything, of all mathematics,

> light, sound, and numbers. Then I saw that there was just one and

> that I had to drop even that so that there was zero, nothing. And

> then I had to drop that too. "

>

> Whe said that, what came to me was " emptiness " .

>

> Love, Steve D.

>

[Guest guest]

*****Thank you, Steve, for this. I offer a few thoughts on yours,

but not as a challenge, only as a " spin. "

It has been said: " belief systems are sicknesses to be cured by the

medicine of emptiness. "

What Buddhists refer to as " Unraveling the heart knot " , refers

to as " Doing The Work " or " undoing yourself " .

You will not get rid of your heart knots by ascribing to a

new " belief system " or joining an old one.

*****True. Also: if and when the heart knots dissolve, " you " won't

be there any longer anyway, not the " you " that you've always known to

be " you. "

All of the world's religions or belief systems are inherently flawed,

because they are too focused upon being Buddhists or Christians or

Muslims or Jews.

*****Most assuredly so. This was a recurrent message in

Krishnamurti's teachings: that adherence to ANY belief system only

bolsters the sense of self, the " me-network, " the belief in which is

at the root cause of the discord.

This state of emptiness is achieved by the undoing of our belief

system, even if the belief system happens to be The Work, itself or

if the belief system seems to be the one who thinks they are doing

The Work.

*****The state of emptiness cannot be achieved because it has always

been here. " Here " IS emptiness. The state of emptiness is

omnipresent and eternal.

See if this analogy fits.

The situation can be likened to a plain white sheet of paper on which

there is a " story " written in pencil.

We are habituated into seeing the writing, the story, and not the

paper on which it appears (and for which it is the foundation). The

story couldn't exist in its current form, as pencil writing, without

the blank paper on which to appear, could it?

The undoing IS the erasing of the story until what was always there,

the " empty " (blank) sheet of paper, is clearly evident. When this

happens, we think, " Ahhhh....NOW there is the apperception of

emptiness, " as if the emptiness just arose (because now it has been

apperceived). Unaware are we that it is always there and, without

it, there could not BE any stories!

In more practical terms, the " undoing " is to see, ironically, that

the one who was previously believed to achieve emptiness, is simply a

thought (or, more precisely, a succession of thoughts thought very

quickly). No one " achieves " emptiness. It is paradoxically realized

(by non one) in the absence of the sense of self.

did not know about Gurus so she created an old woman (see " A

Cry In The Desert " ) who would come to her and take her through all

the universes. I asked about her " old lady in the gingham

dress " and said " She stayed with me as long as I needed her.

She showed me all the secrets of everything, of all mathematics,

light, sound, and numbers. Then I saw that there was just one and

that I had to drop even that so that there was zero, nothing. And

then I had to drop that too. "

Whe said that, what came to me was " emptiness " .

*****Yes. It all has to come to the end which was already fully

operant at the beginning.

[Guest guest]

dear mark,

" is

there anywhere to get a copy of 'Cry in the Desert' at a reasonable

price anymore? "

Email me?

Love, steve D.

> >

> > It has been said: " belief systems are sicknesses to be cured by

the

> > medicine of emptiness. "

> >

> > What Buddhists refer to as " Unraveling the heart knot " ,

> refers

> > to as " Doing The Work " or " undoing yourself " .

> >

> > You will not get rid of your heart knots by ascribing to a

> > new " belief system " or joining an old one. All of the world's

> > religions or belief systems are inherently flawed, because they

are

> > too focused upon being Buddhists or Christians or Muslims or Jews.

> >

> > This state of emptiness is achieved by the undoing of our belief

> > system, even if the belief system happens to be The Work, itself

or

> > if the belief system seems to be the one who thinks they are

doing

> > The Work.

> >

> > did not know about Gurus so she created an old woman

(see " A

> > Cry In The Desert " ) who would come to her and take her through

all

> > the universes. I asked about her " old lady in the gingham

> > dress " and said " She stayed with me as long as I needed

her.

> > She showed me all the secrets of everything, of all mathematics,

> > light, sound, and numbers. Then I saw that there was just one

and

> > that I had to drop even that so that there was zero, nothing.

And

> > then I had to drop that too. "

> >

> > Whe said that, what came to me was " emptiness " .

> >

> > Love, Steve D.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> You will not get rid of your heart knots by ascribing to a

> new " belief system " or joining an old one.

Uh, well, um, is that your belief? Can you know for sure the above is

true?

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

Yes, it is my belief ---- What else could it be?

And, of course I can not know if it is true.

Thank you for asking....

Blesssings, Steve D.

>

> > You will not get rid of your heart knots by ascribing to a

> > new " belief system " or joining an old one.

>

> Uh, well, um, is that your belief? Can you know for sure the above

is

> true?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Andy,

Thanks for your " spin " . I had to read it a couple of times and let

it soak in before I could comment....

Love, Steve D.

>

> *****Thank you, Steve, for this. I offer a few thoughts on yours,

> but not as a challenge, only as a " spin. "

>

>

> It has been said: " belief systems are sicknesses to be cured by the

> medicine of emptiness. "

>

> What Buddhists refer to as " Unraveling the heart knot " , refers

> to as " Doing The Work " or " undoing yourself " .

>

> You will not get rid of your heart knots by ascribing to a

> new " belief system " or joining an old one.

>

>

> *****True. Also: if and when the heart knots dissolve, " you " won't

> be there any longer anyway, not the " you " that you've always known

to

> be " you. "

>

>

> All of the world's religions or belief systems are inherently

flawed,

> because they are too focused upon being Buddhists or Christians or

> Muslims or Jews.

>

>

> *****Most assuredly so. This was a recurrent message in

> Krishnamurti's teachings: that adherence to ANY belief system only

> bolsters the sense of self, the " me-network, " the belief in which

is

> at the root cause of the discord.

>

>

> This state of emptiness is achieved by the undoing of our belief

> system, even if the belief system happens to be The Work, itself or

> if the belief system seems to be the one who thinks they are doing

> The Work.

>

>

> *****The state of emptiness cannot be achieved because it has

always

> been here. " Here " IS emptiness. The state of emptiness is

> omnipresent and eternal.

>

> See if this analogy fits.

>

> The situation can be likened to a plain white sheet of paper on

which

> there is a " story " written in pencil.

>

> We are habituated into seeing the writing, the story, and not the

> paper on which it appears (and for which it is the foundation).

The

> story couldn't exist in its current form, as pencil writing,

without

> the blank paper on which to appear, could it?

>

> The undoing IS the erasing of the story until what was always

there,

> the " empty " (blank) sheet of paper, is clearly evident. When this

> happens, we think, " Ahhhh....NOW there is the apperception of

> emptiness, " as if the emptiness just arose (because now it has been

> apperceived). Unaware are we that it is always there and, without

> it, there could not BE any stories!

>

> In more practical terms, the " undoing " is to see, ironically, that

> the one who was previously believed to achieve emptiness, is simply

a

> thought (or, more precisely, a succession of thoughts thought very

> quickly). No one " achieves " emptiness. It is paradoxically

realized

> (by non one) in the absence of the sense of self.

>

>

>

> did not know about Gurus so she created an old woman (see " A

> Cry In The Desert " ) who would come to her and take her through all

> the universes. I asked about her " old lady in the gingham

> dress " and said " She stayed with me as long as I needed her.

> She showed me all the secrets of everything, of all mathematics,

> light, sound, and numbers. Then I saw that there was just one and

> that I had to drop even that so that there was zero, nothing. And

> then I had to drop that too. "

>

> Whe said that, what came to me was " emptiness " .

>

>

> *****Yes. It all has to come to the end which was already fully

> operant at the beginning.

>

[Guest guest]

Is " non one " a story?

It is paradoxically realized

> (by non one) in the absence of the sense of self.

>>

>> did not know about Gurus so she created an old woman (see " A

> Cry In The Desert " ) who would come to her and take her through all

> the universes. I asked about her " old lady in the gingham

> dress " and said " She stayed with me as long as I needed her.

> She showed me all the secrets of everything, of all mathematics,

> light, sound, and numbers. Then I saw that there was just one and

> that I had to drop even that so that there was zero, nothing. And

> then I had to drop that too. "

Also in music.

the spaces between the notes are as important as the notes themselves.

Without it there is no music or notes to be heard.

nel

> We are habituated into seeing the writing, the story, and not the

> paper on which it appears (and for which it is the foundation). The

> story couldn't exist in its current form, as pencil writing, without

> the blank paper on which to appear, could it?

>

> The undoing IS the erasing of the story until what was always there,

> the " empty " (blank) sheet of paper, is clearly evident. When this

> happens, we think, " Ahhhh....NOW there is the apperception of

> emptiness, " as if the emptiness just arose (because now it has been

> apperceived). Unaware are we that it is always there and, without

> it, there could not BE any stories!

>

> *****Thank you, Steve, for this. I offer a few thoughts on yours,

> but not as a challenge, only as a " spin. "

>

>

> It has been said: " belief systems are sicknesses to be cured by the

> medicine of emptiness. "

>

> What Buddhists refer to as " Unraveling the heart knot " , refers

> to as " Doing The Work " or " undoing yourself " .

>

> You will not get rid of your heart knots by ascribing to a

> new " belief system " or joining an old one.

>

>

> *****True. Also: if and when the heart knots dissolve, " you " won't

> be there any longer anyway, not the " you " that you've always known to

> be " you. "

>

>

> All of the world's religions or belief systems are inherently flawed,

> because they are too focused upon being Buddhists or Christians or

> Muslims or Jews.

>

>

> *****Most assuredly so. This was a recurrent message in

> Krishnamurti's teachings: that adherence to ANY belief system only

> bolsters the sense of self, the " me-network, " the belief in which is

> at the root cause of the discord.

>

>

> This state of emptiness is achieved by the undoing of our belief

> system, even if the belief system happens to be The Work, itself or

> if the belief system seems to be the one who thinks they are doing

> The Work.

>

>

> *****The state of emptiness cannot be achieved because it has always

> been here. " Here " IS emptiness. The state of emptiness is

> omnipresent and eternal.

>

> See if this analogy fits.

>

> The situation can be likened to a plain white sheet of paper on which

> there is a " story " written in pencil.

>

> We are habituated into seeing the writing, the story, and not the

> paper on which it appears (and for which it is the foundation). The

> story couldn't exist in its current form, as pencil writing, without

> the blank paper on which to appear, could it?

>

> The undoing IS the erasing of the story until what was always there,

> the " empty " (blank) sheet of paper, is clearly evident. When this

> happens, we think, " Ahhhh....NOW there is the apperception of

> emptiness, " as if the emptiness just arose (because now it has been

> apperceived). Unaware are we that it is always there and, without

> it, there could not BE any stories!

>

> In more practical terms, the " undoing " is to see, ironically, that

> the one who was previously believed to achieve emptiness, is simply a

> thought (or, more precisely, a succession of thoughts thought very

> quickly). No one " achieves " emptiness. It is paradoxically realized

> (by non one) in the absence of the sense of self.

>

>

>

> did not know about Gurus so she created an old woman (see " A

> Cry In The Desert " ) who would come to her and take her through all

> the universes. I asked about her " old lady in the gingham

> dress " and said " She stayed with me as long as I needed her.

> She showed me all the secrets of everything, of all mathematics,

> light, sound, and numbers. Then I saw that there was just one and

> that I had to drop even that so that there was zero, nothing. And

> then I had to drop that too. "

>

> Whe said that, what came to me was " emptiness " .

>

>

> *****Yes. It all has to come to the end which was already fully

> operant at the beginning.

>

[Guest guest]

> Is " non one " a story?

*****Typo. Sorry. It was meant to read " no one. " And yes, " no one "

is too a story. All there are, are stories.

> It is paradoxically realized

> > (by non one) in the absence of the sense of self.

> >>

> >> did not know about Gurus so she created an old woman

(see " A

> > Cry In The Desert " ) who would come to her and take her through all

> > the universes. I asked about her " old lady in the gingham

> > dress " and said " She stayed with me as long as I needed her.

> > She showed me all the secrets of everything, of all mathematics,

> > light, sound, and numbers. Then I saw that there was just one and

> > that I had to drop even that so that there was zero, nothing. And

> > then I had to drop that too. "

> Also in music.

> the spaces between the notes are as important as the notes

> themselves. Without it there is no music or notes to be heard.

*****Quite so. Without the silence, music is not possible.

Apropos the above understanding comes this story from the late

de Mello:

Sometimes there would be a rush of noisy visitors and the Silence of

the monastery would be shattered.

This would upset the disciples; not the Master, who seemed just as

content with the noise as with the Silence.

To his protesting disciples he said one day, " Silence is not the

absence of sound, but the absence of self. "

[Guest guest]

If " no doer " and " perceiver " and observer is a story then i guess

there is no " true identity " . Then i can't get out of " who i am " .

So i couldn't [not be who i am]....maybe be someone else.

is nothing that much to ask for?

Are they just platforms? Could be the other way around, maybe the

" doer " is the platform for the " observer " .

>

> > Is " non one " a story?

>

>

> *****Typo. Sorry. It was meant to read " no one. " And yes, " no one "

> is too a story. All there are, are stories.

>

>

> > It is paradoxically realized

> > > (by non one) in the absence of the sense of self.

> > >>

> > >> did not know about Gurus so she created an old woman

> (see " A

> > > Cry In The Desert " ) who would come to her and take her through all

> > > the universes. I asked about her " old lady in the gingham

> > > dress " and said " She stayed with me as long as I needed her.

> > > She showed me all the secrets of everything, of all mathematics,

> > > light, sound, and numbers. Then I saw that there was just one and

> > > that I had to drop even that so that there was zero, nothing. And

> > > then I had to drop that too. "

>

>

> > Also in music.

> > the spaces between the notes are as important as the notes

> > themselves. Without it there is no music or notes to be heard.

>

>

> *****Quite so. Without the silence, music is not possible.

>

> Apropos the above understanding comes this story from the late

> de Mello:

>

> Sometimes there would be a rush of noisy visitors and the Silence of

> the monastery would be shattered.

>

> This would upset the disciples; not the Master, who seemed just as

> content with the noise as with the Silence.

>

> To his protesting disciples he said one day, " Silence is not the

> absence of sound, but the absence of self. "

>

[Guest guest]

If " no doer " and " perceiver "

----->And there is apparent doing and apparent perceiving.

and observer is a story

----->All there is, is stories.

then i guess there is no " true identity " .

----->Only inasmuch as there is " true weather. "

Then i can't get out of " who i am " .

----->Is there a desire to?

So i couldn't [not be who i am]....maybe be someone else.

is nothing that much to ask for?

Are they just platforms?

----->They are all thoughts.

Could be the other way around, maybe the

" doer " is the platform for the " observer " .

----->Doing seems to happen; observing appears to occur. That is

all. It's really quite simple. If you want to have headaches among

the overtones and undertones, so be it. :-)

[Guest guest]

= What does the Ocean believe?

you would have to ask him.

Everyone is telling you what he's believing.

And if you can find that belief within yourself, it's a joining.

You don't try to find it, it's separation.

Or whatever you would call it.

Love,

---------------------------------

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