Feedback on Major Moisture Incursion into our 'Healthy Home'

[Guest guest]

Hi everyone,

I?m new to the list after having a huge moisture catastrophe with our newly

built healthy home. I have MCS and we had a less-toxic, healthy home built that

we've lived in for almost 2 years.

I need some advice on the following issues:

1. feedback on the mold tests we?ve had done

2. how to test for mycotoxins (tests that would hold up in court)

3. advice on how to proceed w. more deconstruction or reconstruction given my

sensitivities

4. If it?s possible to, and how to, establish baseline measurements of mold and

mycotoxins and mVOCs in my body

5. questions about the symptoms I?ve had while living at the house

If you can help, please keep reading. If not, just skip this message. Thanks for

any help you can offer. When you reply, please list the issue number that your

reply refers to (Issue 1 or 2...).

The problem: We had a vented roof system installed that recently failed b/c it

was both designed and installed incorrectly. The roof filled with snow and when

the weather warmed, it all melted into the ceiling. I found the initial leak at

the end of a 40-degree day (the previous day had also been above freezing);

before that it was freezing.

We evacuated ourselves and ALL of our stuff immediately. I lost everything to a

mold exposure in a rental home 10 or so years ago, so I didn?t want that to

happen again. To note, after really crashing from exposure to room deodorizers

in 2001, I officially was diagnosed with multiple chemical sensitivity. Molds

and fragrances are my two major triggers.

Our builder got on it immediately with heat, fans, mold consultants w. infrared

camera and moisture meters, etc. The entire ceiling and some interior walls were

opened up to dry everything out. They followed the moisture down and opened up

everything to get it to dry out. All the Icynene (a healthier foam insulation)

in the ceiling was removed b/c some of it had absorbed water. Icynene holds

water but cannot grow mold. At this point, the surfaces/exposed wood and the air

are very dry: between 10-12 percent rH.

I did smell some mold a few weeks before in a specific corner of the dining room

by a window and they did find evidence of mold growth on a redwood sill plate

under a window right there, which was immediately removed. Mold tests showed

nothing, since it had been sitting outside in the sun/wind.

1. We?ve had two rounds of tests taken. Mold counts are much diminished in the

second round of tests. Could these levels still be a concern for someone already

hypersensitive to molds/mycotoxins? Noted spots on wood will be treated and

sealed in (what they haven?t been able to just cut out). House will be HEPA

vac?d (walls, etc.) and wiped and air scrubbed **before** and **after**

reconstruction. What else do you recommend?

Initial mold tests evaluated by Environmental Microbiology labs:

SPORE TRAP on 1.18.07

--in living room: penicillium/aspergillus: 1230 spores/m3 with raw ct of 92

smuts, periconia, myxomycetes: 13 spores/m3 with raw of 1

other brown: 13 spores/m3 with raw of 1

--in front bedroom: cladosporium: 53 spores/m3 with raw of 4

pen/asp: 267 spores/m3 with raw of 20

--in back bedroom: cladosporium: 213 spores/m3 with raw of 16

pen/asp: 53 spores/m3 with raw of 4

smuts, periconia, myxomycetes: 27 spores/m3 with raw of 2

DIRECT MICROSCOPIC EXAM REPORT (WET MOUNT)

--of 5 samples taken, 1 showed mold growth of cladosporium: a 1+ on scale of 1-4

--2 showed ?normal trappings?

--2 showed no mold spores detected

**Mold tests re-done_2.7.07**

SPORE TRAP

--living room (I think): basidiospores: 53 spores/m3 with raw ct of 4

chaetomium: 13 sp/m3 with raw of 1

cladosporium: 53 sp/m3 with raw of 4

smuts, periconia, myxomycetes: 13 sp.m3 with raw of 1

--front bedroom: cladosporium: 53 sp/m3 with raw of 4 (same as above)

--back bedroom: other brown: 13 sp/m3 with raw of 1

smuts, periconia, myxomycetes: 27 sp/m3 with raw of 2

trichocladium: 13 sp/m3 with raw of 1

--loft: alternaria: 27 sp/m3 with raw of 2

cladosporium: 53 sp/m3 with raw of 4

pen/asp: 53 sp/m3 with raw of 4

smuts, periconia, myxomycetes: 27 sp/m3 with raw of 2

DIRECT MICROSCOPIC EXAM

--3 samples taken: 1 showed mold growth: 2+ cladosporium

1 showed normal trappings

1 showed no mold spores detected (this was from the Icynene insulation)

2. I understand that mycotoxins can be up to 3 times greater than spore counts.

How should I get mycotoxins tested in a reliable manner that would hold up in

court? I read about gas chromatography/mass spectrometry. Our mold tester isn?t

familiar with testing for mycotoxins and is looking into it. Please advise.

Thanks. We?re in the Boulder/Denver area.

3. Immediate moisture from this episode was tracked with infrared photos and

moisture meters. Everything wet or suspected to be wet was opened up ASAP and

dried out.

Question: would moisture incursion take the same path each time this may have

happened or should we suspect ALL walls and take everything down to bare studs?

Meaning, if this had happened before and we didn?t know (i.e., no drips were

seen anywhere inside the house), could walls that HAVEN?T been opened up this

time contain mold?

Or is there a way to test the walls we haven't opened up? We have interior walls

that are hollow, which we could have air tested (is that enough?). But what

about exterior walls that contain insulation? (We have wood framing and the

Icynene, then a layer of vapor barrier (Tu Tuff 4) over all of that and then the

drywall and paint).

4. Are there tests that I could have done that would hold up in court re: my

mycotoxin levels, etc.? I saw the info on the Geffcken v. D?, 2006 DJDAR

3657 case where Immunosciences tests and IBT tests were thrown out. Ideally, I

would like to establish a baseline of where I am at now so if I get worse, I can

have something closer to ?proof? that living in the house changed my levels.

(something besides my own symptoms)

5. I have felt, overall, good in the house (still had ups and downs, of course).

However, the last many months an itchy ear problem has been getting worse off

and on (itchy, caking, scaly?tried everything: diet, supplements, acupuncture,

pharm products from MD), I?d started feeling somewhat more fatigued a few weeks

before the leak, my candida symptoms were persistent despite diet and treatment,

and my spouse was diagnosed w. thrush (at the time blamed it on 4 rounds of

antibiotics he took last year) but he couldn?t shake it.

After leaving the house my ear symptoms are close to 60-70 percent improved (and

I'm still wearing my same clothes, etc.). Could this have been a mold reaction??

In the past, I've associated very debilitating symptoms w. a mold reaction

(foggy brain, nausea, severe fatigue, etc.). I did not feel those but I?m

wondering if these more " mild " but frustrating symptoms are linked to mold

exposure. Can I reliably say I have a baseline from living in the house before?

Basically, we?re trying to figure out if this had happened before this winter

and whether or not I have a reliable baseline from which to measure future

symptoms. This is complicated by the fact that we had a vapor barrier on all

walls and ceiling, etc. which may have decreased the impact of mold. However, we

didn?t find lots of mold when house was deconstructed. ??

Thanks for any and all advice, comments, etc.