Re: Re: Re : Thoughts - Fear / .

[Guest guest]

Thank you for clearing up the differences between *fear* and *fear*.

What makes the differnce between *fear* and *thirll*?

Oh, and I don't see mankind more *evolved* than animals. I don't believe in

*being evolved*.

Love,

Arvind schrieb:

Hi :

I find the two kind of *fears* that

you are talking about in this

passage... slightly different.

>>Well, fear is a story of the future.

>>And fear doesn't have to be

negative, at all.

>>Some people even pay to experience

fear. They go on roller-coasters, some

may even watch movies!

I see fear [i would rather call it

*thrill* and I am not sure if it is

exactly like *fear*] that people might

experience in a roller-coater ride

different that the fear you talk about

below.

>>And yes, it goes together with the

thought that you could loose something

(which means you think you own it, in the

first place) or not get something you

think you need (although you know don't need

it, because you don't have it, in the

first place.)

This kind of fear, I would call

" psychological fear " and as you noted,

I too think it is related to thoughts!

However, the *fear* [or thrill] that

one might experience in a roller-

coaster ride or when getting physically

attacked... may not necessarily be

because of " thoughts " ! In my

experience, I have found this kind of

*physical* [instinctive] fear run

deeper than the level of conscious

intellectual thoughts!

As far as paying money to experience

something is concerned, I don't

consider that as proof of something

being *good*, *not bad*, *not negative*

or *positive*!

Addictions have great Power and people

pay money for all sorts of things!

Due to people's current 'preference'

[and 'conditioning'], we see lot of

media [in all formats] dominated by

violence, hatred, fear, news of

disasters, fights, gossips, celebrity

break-ups and fidelity!

At the other level, we also see

millions of people continually

*spending* lot of money on Cocaine,

Ecstasy, other drugs, alcohol, junk

food and ...cigarettes!

Based on this fact, I don't consider

*popularity* of something or the amount

of money people spend on something as a

*measure* of its *goodness* or *non

negativity*!

>>Love,

>>

Regards,

ac.

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[Guest guest]

Dear Arvind,

Am 28.04.2006 um 20:02 schrieb Arvind:

>> Thank you for clearing up the

>> differences between *fear* and *fear*.

>

> I am glad that it helped.

>

> Just to be clear, I was talking about

> the difference between:

you have been *very* clear, already.

> - Instinctive fear

>

> and

>

> - psychological fear

>

> Psychological fear I find based on

> thoughts and, because of that I think

> 'none thinking' animals don't have them.

>

> Instinctive fear OTOH... I find 'built-

> in' and based on my observation I find

> it present in humans as well as

> many/most animals.

Ok.

And I find I can only know about what fear is inside of myself. After

taking thoughts to inquiry, I find most people have a *very* clear mind.

And everything else seems to take care of itself pretty well, too.

>> What makes the difference between

>> *fear* and *thirll*?

>

> I think perhaps, dictionary can define

> it better than I can.

Well, I can read the definition of words in a book.

And did you ask you?

I was not asking about more words to describe them.

But do you know what if *feels* like?

When you experience thrill, you don't take a dictionary, look up the

word, compare what is written there to how you feel, and *then*

express it.

Well, some people may...

But in the moment the feeling is there, I put a label on it, for

instance. Before the label, I don't know what I experience.

I can label it " fear " , or label it " thrill " .

And I notice: fear goes together with uncomfort. Thrill goes together

with excitement.

What I want to know, is: at what place does the decision take place,

whether what I experience is exciting or uncomfortable. And can I

inquire into that place? And what comes out, if I do?

Care to know?

>> Oh, and I don't see mankind more

>> *evolved* than animals.

>

> Perhaps, you take *evolution* to mean

> different things than I do. I take

> *evolution* as a reasonably well-

> established 'scientific fact' which is

> not dependent on your or my 'belief'

> about it!

>

> What I mean to convey in this passage

> is that the mankind [which came later]

> has abilities like thoughts, reasoning,

> logic, language, social skills which

> animals [who came earlier] generally

> either don't have or or have in a

> less developed form.

>

> To me, it is a matter of fact and not

> something that I can pass my *judgment*

> on!

>

> It is something like me saying that

> Arnold [at 6' 4 " ] is taller than me. It

> is a simple fact.

Ok.

It sounded to me that a statement like " less developed " would carry a

judgement on what is preferrable.

I see that I was wrong.

>> I don't believe in *being evolved*.

> Perhaps, I would prefer to use a word

> like *growth* instead or maybe not...

> [as might be the case]!

I like how you tend to talk in conditional sentences.

It reminds me of me.

> I enjoyed talking to you !

My pleasure.

> Love,

> ac.

Love,

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[Guest guest]

Dear Andy,

Am 28.04.2006 um 22:04 schrieb Andy:

>

>

> Hi Arvind & ,

>

> I'm enjoying your dialogue. Thank you.

>

> One thought on 's comment,

>

> " But in the moment the feeling is there, I put a label on it, for

> instance. Before the label, I don't know what I experience. "

>

> I would suggest that the label-- as well as the knowing of what the

> feeling is -- doesn't happen " in the moment the feeling is there, "

> but rather, both occurs afterwards, in hindsight, retrospectively.

> In the moment (or moments) following the arising of the feeling,

> the " me " (= the sense of a self) is " born. " Prior to that subsequent

> moment, actually " in " the moment, all there is is *happening*, not a

> some " one " to which what is happening is happening. Just.....this!

Well, you may be right.

And do you notice?

Because if you do, you may as well do without the label.

And get to experience the part before the sense of a self is " born " .

Love,

___________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

What I ask myself, is:

I go to the place where I experience fear... and how would I feel with this

sensation, if

I had not a concept of what " fear " is?

> Yet, I find that *fear* is a built-in biological

> response and is not entirely dependent on my

> thinking [or 'labeling'] of it!

> I notice that when I hear a Very Loud Sudden

> Noise, the physical sensation of *fear* arise

> much sooner than I even know 'what it is' and

> before I even gain ability to think about it or

> 'label' it in some way...

Yes, and do you note any difference between the sensation itself, during the

sound, right after, and after knowing it was fear you felt?

> Based on my observation [and reading of scientific research]

I am interested to self-awareness, so let's stick to " own observation " . And

let's talk

about what people write down somewhere another time.

> this 'instinctive' fear is

> present in animals and new born too and as far as

> I know they are not able to do any elaborate

> *psychological* thinking!

yes, " as far as I know " ... let's take it for granted. And let's also explore who

we'd be

in a world where we don't know.

....

> I don't think *nightmares* are a must in this

> kind of 'waking'! I use that to present an

> example in which brain uses *fear* in somewhat

> 'useful' way! I have woken up many, many times

> without having any nightmares.

" brain uses fear " ...

So, if I don't have anything to do with it, why even bother?

And I can see how it sounds useful.

> I too experience rage sometimes.

> But, I am not sure if it always originates from fear...

Ok, so let's open a new thread: what is anger?

Love,

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