Re: Pets and mold illness

[Guest guest]

,

I don't think that there are many areas where dogs metabolism are THAT

different than humans but a vet would know any areas of concern. Remember

that a dog is much smaller than a human and also their metabolism is (I

think) a little faster/higher, which might effect things.

Have you tried giving your dog things like activated charcoal, whey protein,

etc., antioxidants, ALA, NAC, etc ?

Also, there have been lots of journal articles on veterinary use of

cholestyramine, but it isn't used as an additive to feed to prevent/treat

mycotoxicosis mostly because of its expense in large quantities, I've read.

(even though it works better than any other binding agent)

When you are raising animals commercially, thats a big consideration.

[Guest guest]

I WONDER IF MILK THISLE WOULD HELP.--- In

, " mhbarnes_99 " <mary.h.barnes@...>

wrote:

>

> Hi all,

>

> I know there's been past discussion about pets being impacted by

mold

> illness, but I'm curious if anyone ever tried to apply Shoemaker's

> protocol to treating dogs. My dog has been unsuccessful in

fighting

> a bladder infection since early March. I took her to the vets who

> xrayed and found no kidney stones, etc. He just got the lab work

> back and her RBC and WBC are both below normal. Of course, this

> isn't so surprising to me given that she spent over 3 years in our

> toxic house laying on toxic carpet and I know my WBC was almost

> always below normal the whole time I was there and my RBC and

> hematocrit were also on the lower end of the normal range. The

vet

> will be giving me iron and B-vitamins, which I know can be

effective

> in bringing those things into normal range, but I did also mention

to

> him the CSM and even procrit. He's going to look those up and see

if

> anyone has ever used on dogs - I imagine the latter likely not

given

> that the cost is likely as prohibitive as it is for humans. I

don't

> think the dog would consume the regular CSM and I don't know if

vets

> have access to it in the compounded form (I don't think they've

> reached the point of treating dogs for high cholesterol that I'm

> aware).

>

> Anyways, I'm just curious if anyone else has labs for their dog

that

> they think was made ill from mold exposure to see if the pattern is

> similar to what we're seeing with my dog.

>

> B

>

[Guest guest]

I don't think Milk thistle will hurt. I know the vet said it was okay

to give to my cat that had liver disease when we were still living in

the other house. Of course, that was before I knew that she was

likely also sick due to the mold and I think he thought she was going

to die anyways. Miraculously, she survived and is thriving today,

although she does have some ataxia, which I was just reading today

can be attributed to the mold toxins.

I actually experimented with giving the dog CSM today (just a quarter

scoop as she weighs about 35 pounds). I mixed it with the water from

sardines and she slurped it right up. I had wondered if the citrus

wouldn't bother her, but it didn't. I'm going by the vets this

afternoon and I'll ask him if it's okay to use the CSM on her - I

can't imagine they have anything similar for dogs. I did at least

find articles in pubmed that show that the toxins can create this

problem by damaging the bone marrow. I'm also wondering if she might

not have a systemic fungal infection and/or staph. I seem to remember

somewhere a reference to needing to treat a family pet in one

family's case for everyone to finally be free of it.

B.

>

[Guest guest]

I just now experimented with CSM, but haven't tried anything else as

I honestly didn't realize how sick she was until I spoke with the vet

this morning. We've only had her for 3 years and I just thought she

was a lazy dog - she arrived at our home from the humane society very

overweight due to being fed table food, but even after losing the

weight, she seems quite lazy - she won't walk further than the corner

and then she's wiped out and in hindsight I can see that she has the

classic post-exertional fatigue we have all experienced as she'll

virtually hibernate after a busy weekend. She's a Corgi, so she

herds her people all day and that makes her very tired when we're all

home all weekend.

I will ask the vet about all those other things, as well - I have

most on hand already and I'll search out those articles on the use of

CSM with animals and take to him for reference. I think I'm

fortunate that our vet is one of the best medical professionals I

know, so I think the dog may get better treatment and consideration

than the rest of us have. When I spoke to him on the phone, I think

he was quite serious about looking into the treatment I mentioned

that the doctor was giving me (CSM and potentially procrit).

Thanks,

B.

--- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...>

wrote:

>

> ,

>

> I don't think that there are many areas where dogs metabolism are

THAT

> different than humans but a vet would know any areas of concern.

Remember

> that a dog is much smaller than a human and also their metabolism

is (I

> think) a little faster/higher, which might effect things.

>

> Have you tried giving your dog things like activated charcoal, whey

protein,

> etc., antioxidants, ALA, NAC, etc ?

>

> Also, there have been lots of journal articles on veterinary use of

> cholestyramine, but it isn't used as an additive to feed to

prevent/treat

> mycotoxicosis mostly because of its expense in large quantities,

I've read.

> (even though it works better than any other binding agent)

>

> When you are raising animals commercially, thats a big

consideration.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I did talk to the vet this afternoon and gave him the article I found

on using CSM for dogs (thanks for that pointer!) and also a few

articles describing impacts on bone marrow due to toxins. Contrary,

to the average people doctor, he thought the theory that toxins were

causing her problems made alot of sense since other family members

had been impacted. He had been quite puzzled as he says he doesn't

usually see the blood counts so low unless it's cancer and she has no

signs of any tumor (she had xrays last week) nor any other symptoms

indicative of cancer. I also gave him the overview of Shoemaker's

theories that was provided in that Public Health Alert article.

Based on the one article I found, we settled on a dosage of 1.5 grams

twice a day, so that's about 1 tsp of the CSM powder each dose.

Amazaingly, the dog slurped it right up when I mixed it with almond

milk. She also slurped up the B-vitamin/iron mixture that I had to

fight to get down the cat when she had been so sick.

I think you're absolutely right about the fiber. I'll give her some

metamucil at bedtime tonite. I actually gave her a teaspoon of cod

liver oil after dinner tonite. And, it's very interesting as I was

considering the taurine as I know I added that to my regimen, along

with B1, in the past to try to get my WBC up. So, I'll ask the vet

about the taurine and I might try giving her that as well.

I also mentioned the cat to the vet, since her recovery was actually

surprising. Based on her labs, he had thought at the time that she

had liver cancer. He didn't bother xraying or anything as she was so,

so sick and had spent 5 days on I/V antibiotics. I think he was

fairly certain he was sending her home to die. But, she recovered,

which I attributed at the time to the holy water my younger son and I

put on her But, it might also be due to the switch to a different

cat food that is also gluten-free.

I went back and dug up my family's old labs and both my boys had

improvements in blood counts and liver enzymes by going on the gluten-

free diet. I asked the vet as I know the dog's food has barley and

I'm very cautious when handling it due to the gluten content, so he's

going to talk to his prescription pet food folks and find something

that is gluten-free for the dog, as it seems to make a huge

difference for the cat (she will get very sick, very quickly if she

gets another kind of food).

So, I'll keep you all posted on her progress. We'll re-run the labs

at some point and see if it's helped. I asked the vet if they

checked inflammatory markers for dogs and he says they usually don't,

but he is aware of MSH and that's something we can look at later.

Also, they do measure cholesterol for dogs, so we do need to monitor

that to make sure it doesn't get too low. Mine is on the low end now

and I'm only taking the CSM once a day.

Thanks for all the feedback.

B.

[Guest guest]

,

This is great you have a Vet that is listening and is willing to

learn more on your pets conditions. Obviously he is already aware of

the effects of toxicity/mold/mycotoxins.

The CSM has been used for many years on farm animals, of all sizes

because of the contaminated. You can do a search on this and you

will find more articles. The only thing I would be concerned about

on a smaller animal would be the constipation, since they can't

speak (per se) it may be much harder to detect.

The milk thistle for the kidneys I know works. I used on my dog (she

was about 100 lbs.)when all of a sudden she was having urinary tract

problems several years ago when there was another recall on pet

food. We didn't realized at the time what caused this, but she was

leaking and had no control even when she was sleeping. The milk

thistle cleared it right up and I wish I had given it to her longer

or earlier. Since then I have come across several articles on vets

prescribing Milk thistle.

Obviously the milk thistle has the same affects on humans with great

response, my wife has to use it quite frequently. The only

difference may be the dosage. But as big as my dog was it didn't

seem to matter.

Hope this helps,

KC

>

>

> I did talk to the vet this afternoon and gave him the article I

found

> on using CSM for dogs (thanks for that pointer!) and also a few

> articles describing impacts on bone marrow due to toxins.

Contrary,

> to the average people doctor, he thought the theory that toxins

were

> causing her problems made alot of sense since other family members

> had been impacted. He had been quite puzzled as he says he

doesn't

> usually see the blood counts so low unless it's cancer and she has

no

> signs of any tumor (she had xrays last week) nor any other

symptoms

> indicative of cancer. I also gave him the overview of Shoemaker's

> theories that was provided in that Public Health Alert article.

>

> Based on the one article I found, we settled on a dosage of 1.5

grams

> twice a day, so that's about 1 tsp of the CSM powder each dose.

> Amazaingly, the dog slurped it right up when I mixed it with

almond

> milk. She also slurped up the B-vitamin/iron mixture that I had

to

> fight to get down the cat when she had been so sick.

>

> I think you're absolutely right about the fiber. I'll give her

some

> metamucil at bedtime tonite. I actually gave her a teaspoon of

cod

> liver oil after dinner tonite. And, it's very interesting as I

was

> considering the taurine as I know I added that to my regimen,

along

> with B1, in the past to try to get my WBC up. So, I'll ask the

vet

> about the taurine and I might try giving her that as well.

>

> I also mentioned the cat to the vet, since her recovery was

actually

> surprising. Based on her labs, he had thought at the time that

she

> had liver cancer. He didn't bother xraying or anything as she was

so,

> so sick and had spent 5 days on I/V antibiotics. I think he was

> fairly certain he was sending her home to die. But, she

recovered,

> which I attributed at the time to the holy water my younger son

and I

> put on her But, it might also be due to the switch to a

different

> cat food that is also gluten-free.

>

> I went back and dug up my family's old labs and both my boys had

> improvements in blood counts and liver enzymes by going on the

gluten-

> free diet. I asked the vet as I know the dog's food has barley

and

> I'm very cautious when handling it due to the gluten content, so

he's

> going to talk to his prescription pet food folks and find

something

> that is gluten-free for the dog, as it seems to make a huge

> difference for the cat (she will get very sick, very quickly if

she

> gets another kind of food).

>

> So, I'll keep you all posted on her progress. We'll re-run the

labs

> at some point and see if it's helped. I asked the vet if they

> checked inflammatory markers for dogs and he says they usually

don't,

> but he is aware of MSH and that's something we can look at later.

> Also, they do measure cholesterol for dogs, so we do need to

monitor

> that to make sure it doesn't get too low. Mine is on the low end

now

> and I'm only taking the CSM once a day.

>

> Thanks for all the feedback.

>

> B.

>

[Guest guest]

I found a brand of fiber like Metamucil at the store, but it has no

sugar, just the psyllium and I've started giving that to her and it

seems to be preventing problems so far.

I'll talk to the vet tomorrow about the milk thistle - the curious

thing is that it was her " leaking " in early March that started us

down this road. She's been on 4 rounds of abx (2 weeks each) and

while it did stop the leaking, the urine samples still show some

bacteria. In general, she seems to do okay with 1/4-1/3 dosages of

what I typically use myself and she weighs about 25% or so of what I

do. So, I would think that I can use a half of a 500 mg capsule a

day. I did find online milk thistle specifically for dogs, so I could

get that, as well, although I don't think it matters much. It is

quite interesting though as this one site explicitly lists this as

helpful for aflatoxins:

http://www.wellvet.com/milkthistletincture.html

Overall, the dog seems to be handling the protocol well - the hardest

part is getting her to wait 30 minutes for her meals after the CSM

(I'm assuming the time constraint would be similar for them).

B.

--- In , " tigerpaw2c " <tigerpaw2c@...>

wrote:

>

> ,

>

> This is great you have a Vet that is listening and is willing to

> learn more on your pets conditions. Obviously he is already aware

of

> the effects of toxicity/mold/mycotoxins.

>

> The CSM has been used for many years on farm animals, of all sizes

> because of the contaminated. You can do a search on this and you

> will find more articles. The only thing I would be concerned about

> on a smaller animal would be the constipation, since they can't

> speak (per se) it may be much harder to detect.

>

> The milk thistle for the kidneys I know works. I used on my dog

(she

> was about 100 lbs.)when all of a sudden she was having urinary

tract

> problems several years ago when there was another recall on pet

> food. We didn't realized at the time what caused this, but she was

> leaking and had no control even when she was sleeping. The milk

> thistle cleared it right up and I wish I had given it to her longer

> or earlier. Since then I have come across several articles on vets

> prescribing Milk thistle.

>

> Obviously the milk thistle has the same affects on humans with

great

> response, my wife has to use it quite frequently. The only

> difference may be the dosage. But as big as my dog was it didn't

> seem to matter.

>

> Hope this helps,

>

> KC

>