Guest guest Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Anti vaccine rhetoric? I see it as parents who have witnessed their children suffer a true vaccine injury, trying to pass on their knowledge about vaccines and the serious injuries that they can cause in certain children. People who have thoughts on both sides of the coin have the right to give their opinion on whatever is being discussed. I don't agree with many of the topics or views that are mentioned here in the groups, but if I don't, I don't comment and I delete the thread! Respectfully, I'm new to the group so I guess I was surprised to see such heated anti-vaccination rhetoric here. I thought this forum was more for concrete debates... and I respect the wording of the group description: " Let us respect that we each have our own views and opinions and when disagreement occurs - our ultimate goal is helping our children and young adults with ASD's; and it will take all of us working together to achieve that goal. " I hope the next time I scroll through a thread about vaccinations (if I dare)... that's it's something constructive & not anti-vaccine rhetoric. Because keep in mind, many of us believe in herd immunity and see vaccination as a preventative form of protection for our children. respectfully, ~ in Texas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 If vaccination works to protect children great, but if a child is injured we should be allowed to talk about this too. Medicine doesn’t progress if we don’t ask questions. I’m sure all of us who took our kids in for vaccination believed in herd immunity too. But why are we labeled anti vaccine when we question the safety. All drugs including vaccines carry a risk of injury or death. Why are folks afraid to talk about this. Seems ignorant to turn a blind eye. Informed parents can make better decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Hmmm...Herd immunity from what? We are more sick now with every kind of disease than ever before. The increase in vaccinations has not stopped illness just like antibiotics will not cure bacteria. Bacteria gets stronger.....learns to survive. Playing God with your immune system by tricking it into working without getting sick is a bad idea. The immune system is designed to get sick and fight off the intruder. Chicken Pox for example....get it once and your likely immune for life. Get the shot and even doctors don't know for sure when you need a booster of if you'll be immune for life. I've had the flu twice in my life. About every 20 years. I have never had a flu shot nor has my family. In my opinion we are the healthy ones. I'm more afraid of sheeples. Trina Sherman I'm new to the group so I guess I was surprised to see such heated anti-vaccination rhetoric here. I thought this forum was more for concrete debates... and I respect the wording of the group description: " Let us respect that we each have our own views and opinions and when disagreement occurs - our ultimate goal is helping our children and young adults with ASD's; and it will take all of us working together to achieve that goal. " I hope the next time I scroll through a thread about vaccinations (if I dare)... that's it's something constructive & not anti-vaccine rhetoric. Because keep in mind, many of us believe in herd immunity and see vaccination as a preventative form of protection for our children. respectfully, ~ in Texas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 I totally agree with you, . I feel like every parent needs to do what they feel is in the best interest of their child / children, but it is wise to study both sides, because the truth of the matter is, no one really knows if their child will suffer from a vaccine injury, until it happens and is too late! For me, the Hannah Poling case http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/CAMPBELLSMITH.%20DOE77082710.pdf has been enough to make us truly doubt the safety of vaccines. Some will argue this based on the fact that it says autistic type behaviors, but even putting the autism aside, all of her other conditions make me ask is it worth the risk, especially when they are now finding out that many who have their vaccines are not fully protected years later! If vaccination works to protect children great, but if a child is injured we should be allowed to talk about this too. Medicine doesn’t progress if we don’t ask questions. I’m sure all of us who took our kids in for vaccination believed in herd immunity too. But why are we labeled anti vaccine when we question the safety. All drugs including vaccines carry a risk of injury or death. Why are folks afraid to talk about this. Seems ignorant to turn a blind eye. Informed parents can make better decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Trina:I went through a period to where I got the flu shot every year for like 5 years in a row. Every year, I got flu like symptoms. Either the shot did not work anyway and I got the flu or it made me sick. I quit getting the shot and quit getting sick. They are finding out more and more that the shots don't protect as long as they indicated, so I bet if I were to get checked today, unless I had the childhood illness, I probably would show no signs of being immune to whatever. Hmmm...Herd immunity from what? We are more sick now with every kind of disease than ever before. The increase in vaccinations has not stopped illness just like antibiotics will not cure bacteria. Bacteria gets stronger.....learns to survive. Playing God with your immune system by tricking it into working without getting sick is a bad idea. The immune system is designed to get sick and fight off the intruder. Chicken Pox for example....get it once and your likely immune for life. Get the shot and even doctors don't know for sure when you need a booster of if you'll be immune for life. I've had the flu twice in my life. About every 20 years. I have never had a flu shot nor has my family. In my opinion we are the healthy ones. I'm more afraid of sheeples. Trina Sherman I'm new to the group so I guess I was surprised to see such heated anti-vaccination rhetoric here. I thought this forum was more for concrete debates... and I respect the wording of the group description: " Let us respect that we each have our own views and opinions and when disagreement occurs - our ultimate goal is helping our children and young adults with ASD's; and it will take all of us working together to achieve that goal. " I hope the next time I scroll through a thread about vaccinations (if I dare)... that's it's something constructive & not anti-vaccine rhetoric. Because keep in mind, many of us believe in herd immunity and see vaccination as a preventative form of protection for our children. respectfully, ~ in Texas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Really, ?Because I saw a series of posts about how ignorant people are for vaccinating their children & I found it offensive.Maybe you saw them too, but are biased in that debate and didn't find it clutter.Perhaps there's another group for the vaccine debate so that there's only helpful, constructive posts about pertinent topics.~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 How about the AMA? I'm sure there are lots of nice safe topics there that will tell you all of us who saw with our own eyes our children get very sick after vaccination are complete idiots. Oh, and desperate and evil trying to infect everyone, don't forget that " chatter " . I also find this topic very pertinent although I do not think every child with Autism was diagnosed because of a vaccine. Some were....and for those the discussion of why it may be a risk to others is both pertinent and timely. No one wants to admit that something we are doing to make us all healthier may actually be making us sicker. Pharmaceutical companies are becoming much richer, and if you close your ears and ignore the facts many parents have seen with their own eyes, you will find yourself subject the results they told you were not possible. It's so important to inform that we parents do forget not to get too hysterical and catty. Myself included. Trina Really, ?Because I saw a series of posts about how ignorant people are for vaccinating their children & I found it offensive. Maybe you saw them too, but are biased in that debate and didn't find it clutter.Perhaps there's another group for the vaccine debate so that there's only helpful, constructive posts about pertinent topics. ~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 :I see lots of posts, but read through all of the other stuff to get to the point of what people are saying. What you are saying from your post is that you prefer a debate is is helpful. I guess what you prefer is a debate where there is no debate and everyone believes in vaccines the way you do. In my original post, I stated my views and disagreed with your comment about anti vaccine rhetoric and stated that many are parents who witnessed their kids suffer a vaccine injury and are trying to share what they have discovered about vaccines. I bet if there was a debate that was majority pro vaccine you would probably be making comments about how ignorant people are for choosing not to vaccinate. How about the AMA? I'm sure there are lots of nice safe topics there that will tell you all of us who saw with our own eyes our children get very sick after vaccination are complete idiots. Oh, and desperate and evil trying to infect everyone, don't forget that " chatter " . I also find this topic very pertinent although I do not think every child with Autism was diagnosed because of a vaccine. Some were....and for those the discussion of why it may be a risk to others is both pertinent and timely. No one wants to admit that something we are doing to make us all healthier may actually be making us sicker. Pharmaceutical companies are becoming much richer, and if you close your ears and ignore the facts many parents have seen with their own eyes, you will find yourself subject the results they told you were not possible. It's so important to inform that we parents do forget not to get too hysterical and catty. Myself included. Trina Really, ?Because I saw a series of posts about how ignorant people are for vaccinating their children & I found it offensive. Maybe you saw them too, but are biased in that debate and didn't find it clutter.Perhaps there's another group for the vaccine debate so that there's only helpful, constructive posts about pertinent topics. ~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 :By the way, this was a partial comment that I made earlier. I feel like every parent needs to do what they feel is in the best interest of their child / children, but it is wise to study both sides, because the truth of the matter is, no one really knows if their child will suffer from a vaccine injury, until it happens and is too late! I really don't see that as being biased. Your family has chosen to get vaccines for your child / children? and that is absolutely 100% your right and your choice. Really, ?Because I saw a series of posts about how ignorant people are for vaccinating their children & I found it offensive. Maybe you saw them too, but are biased in that debate and didn't find it clutter.Perhaps there's another group for the vaccine debate so that there's only helpful, constructive posts about pertinent topics. ~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Hi , This is one of those scenarios that unless it's happened to you - or your child - it's easy to dismiss us or label us anti-vaccine but in all reality we are just parents that live with a nightmare that was caused by people that we are supposed to be able to trust, like our pediatricians, etc. Believe me when I say not a day goes by that I don't think, if only. So when we see or hear of parents that will be in the exact situation we were in, we cant help but say something. We can't have the injury of another child on our hands. We can't go to sleep at night knowing we didn't say anything. Autism is cruel and brutal and no one, absolutely no one, should have it injected into their lives the way that we have. It's criminal. Sorry to be blunt but the pain never goes away. Ever!! I would take Polio over autism every day of the week! Blessings, a Cates Founder/Director Cloverleaf Academy *A Christ-centered preschool for children with special needs! www.cloverleafacademy.org 29:11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 a, well said, thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 , I’m sorry the posts have upset you, but there is no reason to shut down debate. That is precisely what this list is for and the topic is very pertinent. Some of us find the anti-vaccine posts quite helpful and constructive. Why don’t you just ignore them? There are many posts on here I don’t find helpful, but why should I tell the posters to stop posting? It’s their right and I imagine other people find them helpful. Give us a chance and you’ll find this list is a great place to get lots of good advice. Marilyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Dear ,I have been on this site a very long time. In that time I have seen the vast majority here believe their children regressed after vaccination.The term " anti-vaccine rhetoric " is like kicking us when we are already down. If you choose to vaccinate your kids, you have that right. I never tell a parent what to do. I do believe it should be a parental decision and not one made by government or the medical mainstream nor anyone else. I believe in medical freedom. But I reserve the right to say what I think, and sorry if you can't handle that. Free speech is tough sometimes, but thank God we have it. The most dangerous thing to democracy is the sentence " You can't say that. " I have a very different view than you, and I have earned the right. I went into a pediatrician's office on March 7, 2001 with my then fifteen month old son. I had seen many reports about thimerosal and its being linked to autism. But the reports I had seen only referred to thimerosal being in the Prevnar vaccine. So once in there I adamantly refused the Prevnar vaccine for my son. Our usually sweet doctor turned on me, and began to act like something I had seen in a movie about Nazi's. She said she had to excuse herself and she would be back. When she came back she told me that autism would happen only in one out of a million children vaccinated, and I said, " Well, that one child is SOMEONE " S baby. " I asked her about the ingredients in the other vaccines she wanted to give, and she out right lied to me, and gave thimerosal-containing vaccines against my wishes.My son received four vaccines -- one was a live virus vaccine and the other three contained thimerosal, so my son (who was small) received 37.5 mcg of mercury in a single day which calculated out to about 200 times the EPA limit for his weight. He immediately started with inconsolable screaming and it took considerable time to calm him down before we could leave. That morning, he had talked, He had awakened me on schedule (he was an early riser who would cry and be reaching to get picked up out of his crib). He pointed to our wind chime and said, " Moo Cow. " He later went to where I kept his shoes and said his favorite word which was " Shoes! " and he got excited as he loved to " go " places. When we left the doctor's he was silent. He was listless the rest of the day and had developed a fever. As directed by his pediatrician, I gave Tylenol. The following morning my husband left for work, and usually I prepared myself to get up to the sound of Ethan crying within five or ten minutes after than. But I was so tired I drifted back to sleep. I awoke with a start sometime later as the sun was full up and shining in my eyes. The baby was silent. He had never slept that late before. I ran into the nursery to find him sitting awkwardly in his crib, staring blankly into space. I called his name several times, and he did not respond to it. I scooped him up, but he went limp in my arms like a rag doll. He did not cling to me, he did not respond to his name. He did not put his arms around my neck. He did not give me eye contact. And from then on so many things continued to be lost. He would speak no more for many years. The doctor, who I called frantically was of NO help, and so our journey began.So I think I have earned the right to be highly offended by the term " anti-vaccine rhetoric " and the cold and dis-compassionate manner with which you stated it. I would not dream of treading on your right and belief to vaccinate, so please, don't you trivialize our tragedies.In the time since my son regressed I have devoted my LIFE to researching vaccine safety and efficacy; biochemistry, behavioral, therapeutic, nutritional, and educational therapies. I have spent countless hours researching and studying human biochemistry and immunology along with the way the world works: the blatant money machine that has created this insanity. In the beginning, I went looking for these things so that I could find substantiation in continuing to vaccinate, and even the new pediatrician I found for my son said, " absolutely never vaccinate him again. " And the evidence I found supported that and failed to prove the validity of " herd immunity. " But I wholly support your right to believe in it if you so choose. My research has lead me to different truths: that the human immune system developed over thousands of years, that Mother Nature knew EXACTLY what she was doing and what she had in mind, that tricking the human immune system is a VERY dangerous proposition, and that limited artificial immunity has little benefit to the perpetuation of the species as a whole. While we set about ways to circumvent natural selection and evolution through artificial means, all the viruses and bacteria out there are doing what the natural order means for them to do: ADAPT OR DIE. So they mutate in order to survive as they are just as driven to survive as we are. This is EXACTLY why we now see " SUPER BUGS " in response to the overuse of antibiotics. Why is it such a stretch for physicians who accept and admit they over prescribed antibiotics to then admit that due to the overuse of vaccines, we have begun to see super viruses? It brings me back to the " butterfly effect " concerning immunity, which I have discussed before. A grandfather walks through the woods with his grandchldren and they come upon a cocoon and find a butterfly STRUGGLING to get out. The children fee sorry for the butterfly, " Oh, Grandpa, help him! " They cry. So the grandfather, against his better judgement, breaks open the cocoon. The butterfly falls to the ground and dies. His body was too big, and his wings were too small for him to survive. He needed the STRUGGLE in order to make his body smaller and his wings bigger. This story demonstrates the reality of the human immune system. It needs the struggle to get stronger. It needs the struggle of illness to be ready for the next adapted virus or bacteria that comes along. It builds upon the strength it gains from struggle. Vaccines are a short cut. It is a fix for something that was never broken in the first place.It is not nice to fool Mother Nature (as the saying goes). We need the struggle of illness to adapt and to strengthen our immune systems in order to survive into the next thousand years, but we are such a short-sighted species. I am not anti-vaccine. I think they have a time and place and can certainly serve a purpose when there is a clear and present danger. If my son is bit by a rabid animal, then even knowing the shots are full of thimerosal, he is going to get them becasue what is the alternative? In a choice between death and losing him all over to autism, then I would choose to go back to square one. Anyone would take a drug today if they know it would prevent them dying tomorrow. That is the best medicine wants to offer, though I argue we should have vaccines without the thimerosal and aluminum and formaldehyde etc.....the toxic list goes on. You find that unreasonable to demand? I am against the system as it now exists. The vaccines mandated are decided upon by a group of people with close ties to the vaccine industry. Many hold patents or partial patents on the very drugs they try to get added to the list. I am against a political system that is swayed by lobbyists who grease the palms of our representatives to determine policy. I am against a system that allows a person who works for the FDA or the CDC to be able to quit and go to work tomorrow for a drug company. I am against pharmaceutical companies being allowed to heavily fund children's hospitals and doctors' educations where they decide what is taught as truth or fallacy rather than what is true. I am against anyone who works for the CDC, FDA, US CONGRESS, or house of representatives as well as physicians being allowed to own any stock in a pharmaceutical company. I am agaisnt drug companies being able to legally give doctors perks such as posters, free drug samples, and expensive trips so they will then push their drugs on an unsuspecting public. I am against prescription drug commercials being on TV (the US is one of only two countries to allow this). We tell our children " Don't do drugs, " but what are they bombarded with as they watch TV? Feel sad? Take a drug. Feel tired? Take a drug. Want more sex? Take a drug. Our children are being taught that life is only good if you are on some drug, and then we wonder why our kids take illicit drugs. I am against a system which allows ANY business to operate and sell a product without ANY threat of litigation when their product hurts a child. The VICF has already paid out almost three billion dollars in awards and attorneys fees for children it chose to compensate for damages other than autism from vaccines. Are you going to deny those children were damaged by vaccines? Or do you see these children (so long as they weren't your own) as acceptable losses? I do not. And if I had known about them prior to vaccinating my own child, I would have abstained then. I cannot support any forced medical plan that damages anybody's child. But all any of us were ever told is how good it is and how safe. I can't do it and beleive it's okay so long as it doesn't happen to my child, but the other guy's kid is acceptable to lose. This is Machiavellian. I respect your right to beleive what you want to believe. The Church continued to persuade the public about what revolves around what for about 400 years following the death of Galileo(since they put him under house arrest and forbade the publishing of his book and forbade him to speak about it for the remainder of his life) until it finally had to concede Galileo was right and everything did indeed revolve around the sun. I know how long it takes for real truth to become the acceptable norm. (and yet we call ourselves the most intelligent animals on earth). If you do not like the anit vaccine " rhetoric " then steel yourself and pass over it, and then delete it. Perhaps there will still be help you may find here. But most of us are here to find support for what we know in our experience to be true. We are here not only to help our children academically and therapeutically, but also biomedically most often for mercury poisoning and other toxic and synergistic poisoning from vaccines. Is it your wish to deny these parents support and help, as well, and only offer help to those who see the world as you do? My faith intructs me that if I see someone doing something harmful, and I do not speak up, then I am guilty of the same sin, but if I speak out and the other party does whatever it is it was doing, I am exonerated. I NEVER tell parents not to vaccinate -- only that I would not risk it again in my own child, and I give them a card which states the toxic ingredients in vaccines. I might also point out the lack of safety studies and the blatant lack of synergistic studies, but after that, the decision is wholly and solely with the parent. If I wish to preserve anything, it the medical right for a parent to decide what is right for their child and that NO government entity should have the right to force any drug into any person, and that the final decision remain with the parent regarding what gets injected or otherwise put into their children. But I reserve the right to state what caused " autism " in my child becasue I am an eye witness. It has cost us about a million dollars thus far in lost wages and out of pocket expenses to get some semblance of the child we brought into this world back, so I think I have earned that right. And those of us here who feel the same, find solace here. We are brothers and sisters of circumstance. You too can find help here, but if you are looking for people here to tell you what to do regarding vaccination, we can only be truthful as to how we feel about that. We can't tell you what to do on that score. I can only tell you to research and get as wholly informed as you can, and make your own decision about it. Don't be cruel and unfeeling just becasue we disagree with your beliefs. It takes one finger and about 2 calories of effort to hit the delete button. Exercise that right as often as you wish.I know when I find posts touting the pro 39 shots into a baby with up to 100 shots planned for the future " We can totally eradicate disease and nobody ever has to die " rhetoric I certainly exercise it, but when I see someone demonstrate such lack of compassion for others and their sincere beliefs, I cannot keep silent. I know , Trina, and are going to laugh 'cause they know how I can be when my dander gets up., I bear no ill will to you and would be glad to help with other issues, but as far as questions about vaccinating, I did tell you that some say vitamin A can help provide some protection. You could also read Dr. Cave's book, " What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Your Children's Vaccinations. " It is a very objective book and offers an alternative vaccination schedule. But if you are looking for many here to say " Oh, you are so right, those parents who think vaccines cause autism are crazy, and we need vaccines for every disease we can possibly get 'cause they are just the best medical advancement ever " I fear you have come to the wrong place, but if you can learn to ignore what you disagree with while gaining help in other areas, you can find some help and support here. But just for the fun of it, I would also suggest you read, " Survival of the Sickest. " The day I see all those who worship before the throne of the be all and end all of health residing with mass vaccination putting as much effort into cleaning up our food, air, and water supplies as well as improving sanitation practices around the world, then I might begin to believe that any of them gives a damn about real health for the future generations of children. But big business is allowed to continue to pollute at frightening rates as there is profit in it, and Big Agri is being allowed to feed us without having to tell us it is either gentetically modified or cloned or what is in that because their is mass profit in it, and Big pharma has plans for 100 mandated vaccinations by entry time into school, and now they have deicded to force vaccinate the college kids or deny college....Where does it end? What number of vaccines is finally too many? No progress in any area has ever occurred without those brave few who stand up and ask " Why? " or " Hey, wait a minute. Something isn't right here. " I had a healthy, talking, perfect child on March 6, 2001. By the afternoon of March 7, 2001, I had a non-verbal child who was rather unresponsive and seemingly catatonic at times. By the end of the week, I had a child who had bouts of catatonia, autism, OCD, SID, APD, an as yet undiagnosed metabolic disorder NOS (NOS is what they call something when they don't know what the hell went wrong), a yet undiagnosed immune disorder NOS who was sick ALL THE TIME. It deserves more respect and terminology than being referred to as " rhetoric. " Truly with respect,Haven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Sound advice, Marilyn... I've actually gotten several private messages saying as much, and also voicing dismay at being attacked for stating pro-vaccine statements previously. Yes, I'm out and proud-- my family gets vaccinated! And we're healthy, and I see no link between that and autism. And I don't care if any of you think I'm wrong. I am enjoying all the responses that say they are stating 'facts'... and find it interesting that being on the other side of the fence makes me a target. I didn't join this group to listen to tired debates... despite what you think, . And Trina doesn't strike me as an expert on the immune system ( " The increase in vaccinations has not stopped illness just like antibiotics will not cure bacteria. " --what?) -- thanks, bye > > , > > I’m sorry the posts have upset you, but there is no reason to shut down debate. That is precisely what this list > is for and the topic is very pertinent. > > Some of us find the anti-vaccine posts quite helpful and constructive. Why don’t you just ignore them? > > There are many posts on here I don’t find helpful, but why should I tell the posters to stop posting? It’s > their right and I imagine other people find them helpful. > > Give us a chance and you’ll find this list is a great place to get lots of good advice. > > Marilyn > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Bye ! Have a nice evening! Sound advice, Marilyn... I've actually gotten several private messages saying as much, and also voicing dismay at being attacked for stating pro-vaccine statements previously. Yes, I'm out and proud-- my family gets vaccinated! And we're healthy, and I see no link between that and autism. And I don't care if any of you think I'm wrong. I am enjoying all the responses that say they are stating 'facts'... and find it interesting that being on the other side of the fence makes me a target. I didn't join this group to listen to tired debates... despite what you think, . And Trina doesn't strike me as an expert on the immune system ( " The increase in vaccinations has not stopped illness just like antibiotics will not cure bacteria. " --what?) -- thanks, bye > > , > > I’m sorry the posts have upset you, but there is no reason to shut down debate. That is precisely what this list > is for and the topic is very pertinent. > > Some of us find the anti-vaccine posts quite helpful and constructive. Why don’t you just ignore them? > > There are many posts on here I don’t find helpful, but why should I tell the posters to stop posting? It’s > their right and I imagine other people find them helpful. > > Give us a chance and you’ll find this list is a great place to get lots of good advice. > > Marilyn > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Don't you find it rather amusing that if anyone of of us warned about peanut allergy, we would be given more credence than when we talk about being wary of vaccine reaction? They all accept that one child can eat peanuts while another cannot, but vaccines are safe for everybody? How sad. As for being " healthy. " Perhaps so, but no one knows the long-term effects from vaccines. There are studies out there regarding the causation of cancer due to the adjuvants, and cancer developing at injection sites. There are studies which point ot the development of myriad autoimmune diseases down the road. And can anyone find me a completely non-vaccinated person who has cancer? I am just curious. I just know that when I was young (and I think I am older than most of you) we didn't have all these things we are seeing today: ADD, ADHD, autism, lupus, scleroderma, MS. juvenile diabetes, the proliferation of " asthma " (which I think in most cases is actually due to adrenal exhaustion in our children), and the proliferation of cancer as well as Alzheimer's. But we are all healthier. Right? I've got to keep telling myself that. We are all healthier...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Well spoken, Haven. My sentiment exactly. I'm not blessed with your verbal expression. I hope you don't mind if I share with all who will listen. Kim Fritzsching Haven DeLay wrote: >Dear , > >I have been on this site a very long time. In that time I have seen the >vast majority here believe their children regressed after vaccination. > >The term " anti-vaccine rhetoric " is like kicking us when we are already >down. If you choose to vaccinate your kids, you have that right. I never >tell a parent what to do. I do believe it should be a parental decision >and not one made by government or the medical mainstream nor anyone else. >I believe in medical freedom. But I reserve the right to say what I think, >and sorry if you can't handle that. Free speech is tough sometimes, but >thank God we have it. The most dangerous thing to democracy is the >sentence " You can't say that. " > >I have a very different view than you, and I have earned the right. I went >into a pediatrician's office on March 7, 2001 with my then fifteen month >old son. I had seen many reports about thimerosal and its being linked to >autism. But the reports I had seen only referred to thimerosal being in >the Prevnar vaccine. So once in there I adamantly refused the Prevnar >vaccine for my son. > >Our usually sweet doctor turned on me, and began to act like something I >had seen in a movie about Nazi's. She said she had to excuse herself and >she would be back. When she came back she told me that autism would >happen only in one out of a million children vaccinated, and I said, " Well, >that one child is SOMEONE " S baby. " >I asked her about the ingredients in the other vaccines she wanted to give, >and she out right lied to me, and gave thimerosal-containing vaccines >against my wishes. > >My son received four vaccines -- one was a live virus vaccine and the other >three contained thimerosal, so my son (who was small) received 37.5 mcg of >mercury in a single day which calculated out to about 200 times the EPA >limit for his weight. > >He immediately started with inconsolable screaming and it took considerable >time to calm him down before we could leave. That morning, he had talked, >He had awakened me on schedule (he was an early riser who would cry and be >reaching to get picked up out of his crib). He pointed to our wind chime >and said, " Moo Cow. " He later went to where I kept his shoes and said his >favorite word which was " Shoes! " and he got excited as he loved to " go " >places. > >When we left the doctor's he was silent. He was listless the rest of the >day and had developed a fever. As directed by his pediatrician, I gave >Tylenol. > >The following morning my husband left for work, and usually I prepared >myself to get up to the sound of Ethan crying within five or ten minutes >after than. But I was so tired I drifted back to sleep. I awoke with a >start sometime later as the sun was full up and shining in my eyes. The >baby was silent. He had never slept that late before. > >I ran into the nursery to find him sitting awkwardly in his crib, staring >blankly into space. I called his name several times, and he did not >respond to it. I scooped him up, but he went limp in my arms like a rag >doll. He did not cling to me, he did not respond to his name. He did not >put his arms around my neck. He did not give me eye contact. And from >then on so many things continued to be lost. He would speak no more for >many years. > >The doctor, who I called frantically was of NO help, and so our journey >began. > >So I think I have earned the right to be highly offended by the term > " anti-vaccine rhetoric " and the cold and dis-compassionate manner with >which you stated it. > >I would not dream of treading on your right and belief to vaccinate, so >please, don't you trivialize our tragedies. > >In the time since my son regressed I have devoted my LIFE to researching >vaccine safety and efficacy; biochemistry, behavioral, therapeutic, >nutritional, and educational therapies. I have spent countless hours >researching and studying human biochemistry and immunology along with the >way the world works: the blatant money machine that has created this >insanity. > >In the beginning, I went looking for these things so that I could find >substantiation in continuing to vaccinate, and even the new pediatrician I >found for my son said, " absolutely never vaccinate him again. " And the >evidence I found supported that and failed to prove the validity of " herd >immunity. " But I wholly support your right to believe in it if you so >choose. > >My research has lead me to different truths: that the human immune system >developed over thousands of years, that Mother Nature knew EXACTLY what she >was doing and what she had in mind, that tricking the human immune system >is a VERY dangerous proposition, and that limited artificial immunity has >little benefit to the perpetuation of the species as a whole. > >While we set about ways to circumvent natural selection and evolution >through artificial means, all the viruses and bacteria out there are doing >what the natural order means for them to do: ADAPT OR DIE. So they mutate >in order to survive as they are just as driven to survive as we are. This >is EXACTLY why we now see " SUPER BUGS " in response to the overuse of >antibiotics. Why is it such a stretch for physicians who accept and admit >they over prescribed antibiotics to then admit that due to the overuse of >vaccines, we have begun to see super viruses? > >It brings me back to the " butterfly effect " concerning immunity, which I >have discussed before. A grandfather walks through the woods with his >grandchldren and they come upon a cocoon and find a butterfly STRUGGLING to >get out. The children fee sorry for the butterfly, " Oh, Grandpa, help >him! " They cry. So the grandfather, against his better judgement, breaks >open the cocoon. The butterfly falls to the ground and dies. His body was >too big, and his wings were too small for him to survive. He needed the >STRUGGLE in order to make his body smaller and his wings bigger. This >story demonstrates the reality of the human immune system. It needs the >struggle to get stronger. It needs the struggle of illness to be ready for >the next adapted virus or bacteria that comes along. It builds upon the >strength it gains from struggle. Vaccines are a short cut. It is a fix >for something that was never broken in the first place.It is not nice to >fool Mother Nature (as the saying goes). > >We need the struggle of illness to adapt and to strengthen our immune >systems in order to survive into the next thousand years, but we are such a >short-sighted species. > >I am not anti-vaccine. I think they have a time and place and can >certainly serve a purpose when there is a clear and present danger. If my >son is bit by a rabid animal, then even knowing the shots are full of >thimerosal, he is going to get them becasue what is the alternative? In a >choice between death and losing him all over to autism, then I would choose >to go back to square one. Anyone would take a drug today if they know it >would prevent them dying tomorrow. That is the best medicine wants to >offer, though I argue we should have vaccines without the thimerosal and >aluminum and formaldehyde etc.....the toxic list goes on. You find that >unreasonable to demand? > >I am against the system as it now exists. The vaccines mandated are >decided upon by a group of people with close ties to the vaccine industry. >Many hold patents or partial patents on the very drugs they try to get >added to the list. I am against a political system that is swayed by >lobbyists who grease the palms of our representatives to determine policy. >I am against a system that allows a person who works for the FDA or the CDC >to be able to quit and go to work tomorrow for a drug company. I am >against pharmaceutical companies being allowed to heavily fund children's >hospitals and doctors' educations where they decide what is taught as truth >or fallacy rather than what is true. I am against anyone who works for the >CDC, FDA, US CONGRESS, or house of representatives as well as physicians >being allowed to own any stock in a pharmaceutical company. I am agaisnt >drug companies being able to legally give doctors perks such as posters, >free drug samples, and expensive trips so they will then push their drugs >on an unsuspecting public. I am against prescription drug commercials being >on TV (the US is one of only two countries to allow this). We tell our >children " Don't do drugs, " but what are they bombarded with as they watch >TV? Feel sad? Take a drug. Feel tired? Take a drug. Want more sex? Take >a drug. Our children are being taught that life is only good if you are on >some drug, and then we wonder why our kids take illicit drugs. > >I am against a system which allows ANY business to operate and sell a >product without ANY threat of litigation when their product hurts a child. >The VICF has already paid out almost three billion dollars in awards and >attorneys fees for children it chose to compensate for damages other than >autism from vaccines. Are you going to deny those children were damaged by >vaccines? Or do you see these children (so long as they weren't your own) >as acceptable losses? I do not. And if I had known about them prior to >vaccinating my own child, I would have abstained then. I cannot support >any forced medical plan that damages anybody's child. But all any of us >were ever told is how good it is and how safe. I can't do it and beleive >it's okay so long as it doesn't happen to my child, but the other guy's kid >is acceptable to lose. This is Machiavellian. > >I respect your right to beleive what you want to believe. The Church >continued to persuade the public about what revolves around what for about >400 years following the death of Galileo(since they put him under house >arrest and forbade the publishing of his book and forbade him to speak >about it for the remainder of his life) until it finally had to concede >Galileo was right and everything did indeed revolve around the sun. I know >how long it takes for real truth to become the acceptable norm. (and yet we >call ourselves the most intelligent animals on earth). > >If you do not like the anit vaccine " rhetoric " then steel yourself and pass >over it, and then delete it. Perhaps there will still be help you may find >here. But most of us are here to find support for what we know in our >experience to be true. We are here not only to help our children >academically and therapeutically, but also biomedically most often for >mercury poisoning and other toxic and synergistic poisoning from vaccines. >Is it your wish to deny these parents support and help, as well, and only >offer help to those who see the world as you do? > >My faith intructs me that if I see someone doing something harmful, and I >do not speak up, then I am guilty of the same sin, but if I speak out and >the other party does whatever it is it was doing, I am exonerated. I NEVER >tell parents not to vaccinate -- only that I would not risk it again in my >own child, and I give them a card which states the toxic ingredients in >vaccines. I might also point out the lack of safety studies and the >blatant lack of synergistic studies, but after that, the decision is wholly >and solely with the parent. If I wish to preserve anything, it the medical >right for a parent to decide what is right for their child and that NO >government entity should have the right to force any drug into any person, >and that the final decision remain with the parent regarding what gets >injected or otherwise put into their children. > >But I reserve the right to state what caused " autism " in my child becasue I >am an eye witness. It has cost us about a million dollars thus far in lost >wages and out of pocket expenses to get some semblance of the child we >brought into this world back, so I think I have earned that right. And >those of us here who feel the same, find solace here. We are brothers and >sisters of circumstance. > >You too can find help here, but if you are looking for people here to tell >you what to do regarding vaccination, we can only be truthful as to how we >feel about that. We can't tell you what to do on that score. I can only >tell you to research and get as wholly informed as you can, and make your >own decision about it. Don't be cruel and unfeeling just becasue we >disagree with your beliefs. > >It takes one finger and about 2 calories of effort to hit the delete >button. Exercise that right as often as you wish. > >I know when I find posts touting the pro 39 shots into a baby with up to >100 shots planned for the future " We can totally eradicate disease and >nobody ever has to die " rhetoric I certainly exercise it, but when I see >someone demonstrate such lack of compassion for others and their sincere >beliefs, I cannot keep silent. > >I know , Trina, and are going to laugh 'cause they know how I >can be when my dander gets up. > >, I bear no ill will to you and would be glad to help with other >issues, but as far as questions about vaccinating, I did tell you that some >say vitamin A can help provide some protection. You could also read Dr. > Cave's book, " What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Your >Children's Vaccinations. " It is a very objective book and offers an >alternative vaccination schedule. But if you are looking for many here to >say " Oh, you are so right, those parents who think vaccines cause autism >are crazy, and we need vaccines for every disease we can possibly get >'cause they are just the best medical advancement ever " I fear you have >come to the wrong place, but if you can learn to ignore what you disagree >with while gaining help in other areas, you can find some help and support >here. > >But just for the fun of it, I would also suggest you read, " Survival of the >Sickest. " > >The day I see all those who worship before the throne of the be all and end >all of health residing with mass vaccination putting as much effort into >cleaning up our food, air, and water supplies as well as improving >sanitation practices around the world, then I might begin to believe that >any of them gives a damn about real health for the future generations of >children. But big business is allowed to continue to pollute at >frightening rates as there is profit in it, and Big Agri is being allowed >to feed us without having to tell us it is either gentetically modified or >cloned or what is in that because their is mass profit in it, and Big >pharma has plans for 100 mandated vaccinations by entry time into school, >and now they have deicded to force vaccinate the college kids or deny >college....Where does it end? What number of vaccines is finally too many? >No progress in any area has ever occurred without those brave few who stand >up and ask " Why? " or " Hey, wait a minute. Something isn't right here. " > >I had a healthy, talking, perfect child on March 6, 2001. By the afternoon >of March 7, 2001, I had a non-verbal child who was rather unresponsive and >seemingly catatonic at times. By the end of the week, I had a child who >had bouts of catatonia, autism, OCD, SID, APD, an as yet undiagnosed >metabolic disorder NOS (NOS is what they call something when they don't >know what the hell went wrong), a yet undiagnosed immune disorder NOS who >was sick ALL THE TIME. It deserves more respect and terminology than being >referred to as " rhetoric. " > >Truly with respect, > >Haven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Great answer. Graham-Garza,DDSlgrahamgarza@...Sent from my iPhone Well spoken, Haven. My sentiment exactly. I'm not blessed with your verbal expression. I hope you don't mind if I share with all who will listen. Kim Fritzsching Haven DeLay wrote: >Dear , > >I have been on this site a very long time. In that time I have seen the >vast majority here believe their children regressed after vaccination. > >The term "anti-vaccine rhetoric" is like kicking us when we are already >down. If you choose to vaccinate your kids, you have that right. I never >tell a parent what to do. I do believe it should be a parental decision >and not one made by government or the medical mainstream nor anyone else. >I believe in medical freedom. But I reserve the right to say what I think, >and sorry if you can't handle that. Free speech is tough sometimes, but >thank God we have it. The most dangerous thing to democracy is the >sentence "You can't say that." > >I have a very different view than you, and I have earned the right. I went >into a pediatrician's office on March 7, 2001 with my then fifteen month >old son. I had seen many reports about thimerosal and its being linked to >autism. But the reports I had seen only referred to thimerosal being in >the Prevnar vaccine. So once in there I adamantly refused the Prevnar >vaccine for my son. > >Our usually sweet doctor turned on me, and began to act like something I >had seen in a movie about Nazi's. She said she had to excuse herself and >she would be back. When she came back she told me that autism would >happen only in one out of a million children vaccinated, and I said, "Well, >that one child is SOMEONE"S baby." >I asked her about the ingredients in the other vaccines she wanted to give, >and she out right lied to me, and gave thimerosal-containing vaccines >against my wishes. > >My son received four vaccines -- one was a live virus vaccine and the other >three contained thimerosal, so my son (who was small) received 37.5 mcg of >mercury in a single day which calculated out to about 200 times the EPA >limit for his weight. > >He immediately started with inconsolable screaming and it took considerable >time to calm him down before we could leave. That morning, he had talked, >He had awakened me on schedule (he was an early riser who would cry and be >reaching to get picked up out of his crib). He pointed to our wind chime >and said, "Moo Cow." He later went to where I kept his shoes and said his >favorite word which was "Shoes!" and he got excited as he loved to "go" >places. > >When we left the doctor's he was silent. He was listless the rest of the >day and had developed a fever. As directed by his pediatrician, I gave >Tylenol. > >The following morning my husband left for work, and usually I prepared >myself to get up to the sound of Ethan crying within five or ten minutes >after than. But I was so tired I drifted back to sleep. I awoke with a >start sometime later as the sun was full up and shining in my eyes. The >baby was silent. He had never slept that late before. > >I ran into the nursery to find him sitting awkwardly in his crib, staring >blankly into space. I called his name several times, and he did not >respond to it. I scooped him up, but he went limp in my arms like a rag >doll. He did not cling to me, he did not respond to his name. He did not >put his arms around my neck. He did not give me eye contact. And from >then on so many things continued to be lost. He would speak no more for >many years. > >The doctor, who I called frantically was of NO help, and so our journey >began. > >So I think I have earned the right to be highly offended by the term >"anti-vaccine rhetoric" and the cold and dis-compassionate manner with >which you stated it. > >I would not dream of treading on your right and belief to vaccinate, so >please, don't you trivialize our tragedies. > >In the time since my son regressed I have devoted my LIFE to researching >vaccine safety and efficacy; biochemistry, behavioral, therapeutic, >nutritional, and educational therapies. I have spent countless hours >researching and studying human biochemistry and immunology along with the >way the world works: the blatant money machine that has created this >insanity. > >In the beginning, I went looking for these things so that I could find >substantiation in continuing to vaccinate, and even the new pediatrician I >found for my son said, "absolutely never vaccinate him again." And the >evidence I found supported that and failed to prove the validity of "herd >immunity." But I wholly support your right to believe in it if you so >choose. > >My research has lead me to different truths: that the human immune system >developed over thousands of years, that Mother Nature knew EXACTLY what she >was doing and what she had in mind, that tricking the human immune system >is a VERY dangerous proposition, and that limited artificial immunity has >little benefit to the perpetuation of the species as a whole. > >While we set about ways to circumvent natural selection and evolution >through artificial means, all the viruses and bacteria out there are doing >what the natural order means for them to do: ADAPT OR DIE. So they mutate >in order to survive as they are just as driven to survive as we are. This >is EXACTLY why we now see "SUPER BUGS" in response to the overuse of >antibiotics. Why is it such a stretch for physicians who accept and admit >they over prescribed antibiotics to then admit that due to the overuse of >vaccines, we have begun to see super viruses? > >It brings me back to the "butterfly effect" concerning immunity, which I >have discussed before. A grandfather walks through the woods with his >grandchldren and they come upon a cocoon and find a butterfly STRUGGLING to >get out. The children fee sorry for the butterfly, "Oh, Grandpa, help >him!" They cry. So the grandfather, against his better judgement, breaks >open the cocoon. The butterfly falls to the ground and dies. His body was >too big, and his wings were too small for him to survive. He needed the >STRUGGLE in order to make his body smaller and his wings bigger. This >story demonstrates the reality of the human immune system. It needs the >struggle to get stronger. It needs the struggle of illness to be ready for >the next adapted virus or bacteria that comes along. It builds upon the >strength it gains from struggle. Vaccines are a short cut. It is a fix >for something that was never broken in the first place.It is not nice to >fool Mother Nature (as the saying goes). > >We need the struggle of illness to adapt and to strengthen our immune >systems in order to survive into the next thousand years, but we are such a >short-sighted species. > >I am not anti-vaccine. I think they have a time and place and can >certainly serve a purpose when there is a clear and present danger. If my >son is bit by a rabid animal, then even knowing the shots are full of >thimerosal, he is going to get them becasue what is the alternative? In a >choice between death and losing him all over to autism, then I would choose >to go back to square one. Anyone would take a drug today if they know it >would prevent them dying tomorrow. That is the best medicine wants to >offer, though I argue we should have vaccines without the thimerosal and >aluminum and formaldehyde etc.....the toxic list goes on. You find that >unreasonable to demand? > >I am against the system as it now exists. The vaccines mandated are >decided upon by a group of people with close ties to the vaccine industry. >Many hold patents or partial patents on the very drugs they try to get >added to the list. I am against a political system that is swayed by >lobbyists who grease the palms of our representatives to determine policy. >I am against a system that allows a person who works for the FDA or the CDC >to be able to quit and go to work tomorrow for a drug company. I am >against pharmaceutical companies being allowed to heavily fund children's >hospitals and doctors' educations where they decide what is taught as truth >or fallacy rather than what is true. I am against anyone who works for the >CDC, FDA, US CONGRESS, or house of representatives as well as physicians >being allowed to own any stock in a pharmaceutical company. I am agaisnt >drug companies being able to legally give doctors perks such as posters, >free drug samples, and expensive trips so they will then push their drugs >on an unsuspecting public. I am against prescription drug commercials being >on TV (the US is one of only two countries to allow this). We tell our >children "Don't do drugs," but what are they bombarded with as they watch >TV? Feel sad? Take a drug. Feel tired? Take a drug. Want more sex? Take >a drug. Our children are being taught that life is only good if you are on >some drug, and then we wonder why our kids take illicit drugs. > >I am against a system which allows ANY business to operate and sell a >product without ANY threat of litigation when their product hurts a child. >The VICF has already paid out almost three billion dollars in awards and >attorneys fees for children it chose to compensate for damages other than >autism from vaccines. Are you going to deny those children were damaged by >vaccines? Or do you see these children (so long as they weren't your own) >as acceptable losses? I do not. And if I had known about them prior to >vaccinating my own child, I would have abstained then. I cannot support >any forced medical plan that damages anybody's child. But all any of us >were ever told is how good it is and how safe. I can't do it and beleive >it's okay so long as it doesn't happen to my child, but the other guy's kid >is acceptable to lose. This is Machiavellian. > >I respect your right to beleive what you want to believe. The Church >continued to persuade the public about what revolves around what for about >400 years following the death of Galileo(since they put him under house >arrest and forbade the publishing of his book and forbade him to speak >about it for the remainder of his life) until it finally had to concede >Galileo was right and everything did indeed revolve around the sun. I know >how long it takes for real truth to become the acceptable norm. (and yet we >call ourselves the most intelligent animals on earth). > >If you do not like the anit vaccine "rhetoric" then steel yourself and pass >over it, and then delete it. Perhaps there will still be help you may find >here. But most of us are here to find support for what we know in our >experience to be true. We are here not only to help our children >academically and therapeutically, but also biomedically most often for >mercury poisoning and other toxic and synergistic poisoning from vaccines. >Is it your wish to deny these parents support and help, as well, and only >offer help to those who see the world as you do? > >My faith intructs me that if I see someone doing something harmful, and I >do not speak up, then I am guilty of the same sin, but if I speak out and >the other party does whatever it is it was doing, I am exonerated. I NEVER >tell parents not to vaccinate -- only that I would not risk it again in my >own child, and I give them a card which states the toxic ingredients in >vaccines. I might also point out the lack of safety studies and the >blatant lack of synergistic studies, but after that, the decision is wholly >and solely with the parent. If I wish to preserve anything, it the medical >right for a parent to decide what is right for their child and that NO >government entity should have the right to force any drug into any person, >and that the final decision remain with the parent regarding what gets >injected or otherwise put into their children. > >But I reserve the right to state what caused "autism" in my child becasue I >am an eye witness. It has cost us about a million dollars thus far in lost >wages and out of pocket expenses to get some semblance of the child we >brought into this world back, so I think I have earned that right. And >those of us here who feel the same, find solace here. We are brothers and >sisters of circumstance. > >You too can find help here, but if you are looking for people here to tell >you what to do regarding vaccination, we can only be truthful as to how we >feel about that. We can't tell you what to do on that score. I can only >tell you to research and get as wholly informed as you can, and make your >own decision about it. Don't be cruel and unfeeling just becasue we >disagree with your beliefs. > >It takes one finger and about 2 calories of effort to hit the delete >button. Exercise that right as often as you wish. > >I know when I find posts touting the pro 39 shots into a baby with up to >100 shots planned for the future "We can totally eradicate disease and >nobody ever has to die" rhetoric I certainly exercise it, but when I see >someone demonstrate such lack of compassion for others and their sincere >beliefs, I cannot keep silent. > >I know , Trina, and are going to laugh 'cause they know how I >can be when my dander gets up. > >, I bear no ill will to you and would be glad to help with other >issues, but as far as questions about vaccinating, I did tell you that some >say vitamin A can help provide some protection. You could also read Dr. > Cave's book, "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Your >Children's Vaccinations." It is a very objective book and offers an >alternative vaccination schedule. But if you are looking for many here to >say "Oh, you are so right, those parents who think vaccines cause autism >are crazy, and we need vaccines for every disease we can possibly get >'cause they are just the best medical advancement ever" I fear you have >come to the wrong place, but if you can learn to ignore what you disagree >with while gaining help in other areas, you can find some help and support >here. > >But just for the fun of it, I would also suggest you read, "Survival of the >Sickest." > >The day I see all those who worship before the throne of the be all and end >all of health residing with mass vaccination putting as much effort into >cleaning up our food, air, and water supplies as well as improving >sanitation practices around the world, then I might begin to believe that >any of them gives a damn about real health for the future generations of >children. But big business is allowed to continue to pollute at >frightening rates as there is profit in it, and Big Agri is being allowed >to feed us without having to tell us it is either gentetically modified or >cloned or what is in that because their is mass profit in it, and Big >pharma has plans for 100 mandated vaccinations by entry time into school, >and now they have deicded to force vaccinate the college kids or deny >college....Where does it end? What number of vaccines is finally too many? >No progress in any area has ever occurred without those brave few who stand >up and ask "Why?" or "Hey, wait a minute. Something isn't right here." > >I had a healthy, talking, perfect child on March 6, 2001. By the afternoon >of March 7, 2001, I had a non-verbal child who was rather unresponsive and >seemingly catatonic at times. By the end of the week, I had a child who >had bouts of catatonia, autism, OCD, SID, APD, an as yet undiagnosed >metabolic disorder NOS (NOS is what they call something when they don't >know what the hell went wrong), a yet undiagnosed immune disorder NOS who >was sick ALL THE TIME. It deserves more respect and terminology than being >referred to as "rhetoric." > >Truly with respect, > >Haven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 , You think weird. You were not being attacked. You were attacking us. It’s funny how people on lists attack others, then claim to be the victims of attacks. Marilyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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