Re: mold counts within a house? what level is cinsidered to ...

[Guest guest]

Jane,

You asked " does anyone know the acceptable levels of mold counts within a

house? "

The answer is that no such magic number exists. This is because:

Mould growth can influence air quality because both spores and mycelial

fragments are dispersed into the air and can be inhaled. Their penetration into

the bronchial tree depends on their size. The smaller particles penetrate

deeper into the lungs.

Three features of mould biochemistry are of special interest in terms of

human health:

Mould cell walls contain (1->3)-ß-D-glucan, a compound with inflammatory

properties;

Mould spores and mycelial fragments contain allergens; and

The spores of some species contain low molecular weight chemicals that are

cytotoxic or have other toxic properties (e.g. satratoxins and atranones

produced by Stachybotrys chartarum).

Health effects

Health Canada has carried out two reviews of the scientific literature

pertaining to the health effects of indoor moulds (Health Canada 1995; 2004).

The

Institut national de santé publique du Québec also published a review on this

subject (d'Halewyn et al. 2003). The following conclusions were drawn:

Exposure to indoor mould is associated with an increased prevalence of

asthma-related symptoms such as chronic wheezing, irritation symptoms, and

non-specific symptoms; and

In laboratory animal studies, instillation of fungal antigens (Penicillium

sp. and Aspergillus sp.) and fungal cell components [(1->3)-ß-D-glucan]

resulted in an inflammatory response in the lungs of rodents, while instillation

of

Stachbotrys chartarum spores resulted in severe histological and biochemical

changes.

These conclusions have been supported by more recent findings. In two cohort

studies (Wickman et al. 2003; Jaakkola et al. 2005), significant associations

were found between home dampness and the risk of developing asthma. In

experimental studies, asthma-like responses were observed in mice following

exposure to a typical building-associated fungus, Penicillium chrysogenum (Chung

et al. 2005), and inflammatory responses were seen in rats exposed to low doses

of toxins from the same species (Rand et al. 2005)....

Health Canada considers that mould growth in residential buildings may pose a

health hazard. Health risks depend on exposure and, for asthma symptoms, on

allergic sensitization. However, the large number of mould species and

strains growing in buildings and the large inter-individual variability in

human

response to mould exposure preclude the derivation of exposure limits. "

In other words, there are too many variables from simultaneous exposure to

microbial contaminants found within water damaged buildings, and too many

variables from person to person's immune systems as to how they will react to

exposure to ever set a permissible exposure limit from linear extrapolations of

one mold at a time.

If you have mold and you are exhibiting symptoms of illness most likely

indicative from mold exposure, you have two choices:

1. remove the mold from the building

or

2. remove yourself from the building.

Sharon

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[Guest guest]

dearest sharon

ihave stayed in an old house for far too long and it has killed my lungs. i

can stay at a safe enviornmental hotel but thet are painting all around it, i

have no good answer.

snk1955@... wrote:

Jane,

You asked " does anyone know the acceptable levels of mold counts within a

house? "

The answer is that no such magic number exists. This is because:

Mould growth can influence air quality because both spores and mycelial

fragments are dispersed into the air and can be inhaled. Their penetration into

the bronchial tree depends on their size. The smaller particles penetrate

deeper into the lungs.

Three features of mould biochemistry are of special interest in terms of

human health:

Mould cell walls contain (1->3)-ß-D-glucan, a compound with inflammatory

properties;

Mould spores and mycelial fragments contain allergens; and

The spores of some species contain low molecular weight chemicals that are

cytotoxic or have other toxic properties (e.g. satratoxins and atranones

produced by Stachybotrys chartarum).

Health effects

Health Canada has carried out two reviews of the scientific literature

pertaining to the health effects of indoor moulds (Health Canada 1995; 2004).

The

Institut national de santé publique du Québec also published a review on this

subject (d'Halewyn et al. 2003). The following conclusions were drawn:

Exposure to indoor mould is associated with an increased prevalence of

asthma-related symptoms such as chronic wheezing, irritation symptoms, and

non-specific symptoms; and

In laboratory animal studies, instillation of fungal antigens (Penicillium

sp. and Aspergillus sp.) and fungal cell components [(1->3)-ß-D-glucan]

resulted in an inflammatory response in the lungs of rodents, while instillation

of

Stachbotrys chartarum spores resulted in severe histological and biochemical

changes.

These conclusions have been supported by more recent findings. In two cohort

studies (Wickman et al. 2003; Jaakkola et al. 2005), significant associations

were found between home dampness and the risk of developing asthma. In

experimental studies, asthma-like responses were observed in mice following

exposure to a typical building-associated fungus, Penicillium chrysogenum (Chung

et al. 2005), and inflammatory responses were seen in rats exposed to low doses

of toxins from the same species (Rand et al. 2005)....

Health Canada considers that mould growth in residential buildings may pose a

health hazard. Health risks depend on exposure and, for asthma symptoms, on

allergic sensitization. However, the large number of mould species and

strains growing in buildings and the large inter-individual variability in human

response to mould exposure preclude the derivation of exposure limits. "

In other words, there are too many variables from simultaneous exposure to

microbial contaminants found within water damaged buildings, and too many

variables from person to person's immune systems as to how they will react to

exposure to ever set a permissible exposure limit from linear extrapolations of

one mold at a time.

If you have mold and you are exhibiting symptoms of illness most likely

indicative from mold exposure, you have two choices:

1. remove the mold from the building

or

2. remove yourself from the building.

Sharon

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[Guest guest]

Sharon,

Excellent response! There are many other reasons but her's is the

most succint right now now. Good work.

Jane,

I, along with all the others, wish their was a magic bullet cure and

a magic bullet test. But there isn't. So, for a little clarity and

expansion of Sharon's comments:

1. Testing for mold is like testing for animals or plants, each is an

entire Kingdom of life composed of millions of different types. High

levels of either one or may not be a " problem. " Compare kittens with

lions or snakes or mosquitos.

2. We don't actually test for mold. We test for mold spores, only one

of an increasing number of component parts responsible for health

effects. This is like deciding safety to drive through a forest of

trees by looking only for their seeds. Dumb and deadly.

3. As Sharon points out so well, each of us reacts differently to

different molds in different ways. There is no clear exposure levels

that apply to most of the population. We can't control the world for

your specific needs and mine and everyone elses because there are too

many differences and they contradict each other. One man's poison may

be another man's cure.

Heatlh Canada has the right idea: People shouldn't live in moldy

houses. If it is there, remove it. Then keep it clean and dry.

As for those of us severely affected by mold growth, some of the

screening tests such as Barb1283 describes may provide a few of the

necessary pieces of information. But none are definitive and each set

is specific to that person. Barb, for example, has spent untold time

dollars developing her own baseline, which may or may not work for

you.

Finally, not all problems are mold, as some on this group can attest.

If mold is the only focus, time and scarce money is thrown away.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

> Jane,

>

> You asked " does anyone know the acceptable levels of mold counts within a

> house? "

>

>

> The answer is that no such magic number exists. This is because:

>

>

>

> Mould growth can influence air quality because both spores and mycelial

> fragments are dispersed into the air and can be inhaled. Their penetration

into

> the bronchial tree depends on their size. The smaller particles penetrate

> deeper into the lungs.

>

> Three features of mould biochemistry are of special interest in terms of

> human health:

> Mould cell walls contain (1->3)-ß-D-glucan, a compound with inflammatory

> properties;

> Mould spores and mycelial fragments contain allergens; and

> The spores of some species contain low molecular weight chemicals that are

> cytotoxic or have other toxic properties (e.g. satratoxins and atranones

> produced by Stachybotrys chartarum).

> Health effects

> Health Canada has carried out two reviews of the scientific literature

> pertaining to the health effects of indoor moulds (Health Canada 1995; 2004).

The

> Institut national de santé publique du Québec also published a review on this

> subject (d'Halewyn et al. 2003). The following conclusions were drawn:

> Exposure to indoor mould is associated with an increased prevalence of

> asthma-related symptoms such as chronic wheezing, irritation symptoms, and

> non-specific symptoms; and

> In laboratory animal studies, instillation of fungal antigens (Penicillium

> sp. and Aspergillus sp.) and fungal cell components [(1->3)-ß-D-glucan]

> resulted in an inflammatory response in the lungs of rodents, while

instillation of

> Stachbotrys chartarum spores resulted in severe histological and biochemical

> changes.

> These conclusions have been supported by more recent findings. In two cohort

> studies (Wickman et al. 2003; Jaakkola et al. 2005), significant associations

> were found between home dampness and the risk of developing asthma. In

> experimental studies, asthma-like responses were observed in mice following

> exposure to a typical building-associated fungus, Penicillium chrysogenum

(Chung

> et al. 2005), and inflammatory responses were seen in rats exposed to low

doses

> of toxins from the same species (Rand et al. 2005)....

> Health Canada considers that mould growth in residential buildings may pose a

> health hazard. Health risks depend on exposure and, for asthma symptoms, on

> allergic sensitization. However, the large number of mould species and

> strains growing in buildings and the large inter-individual variability in

human

> response to mould exposure preclude the derivation of exposure limits. "

> In other words, there are too many variables from simultaneous exposure to

> microbial contaminants found within water damaged buildings, and too many

> variables from person to person's immune systems as to how they will react to

> exposure to ever set a permissible exposure limit from linear extrapolations

of

> one mold at a time.

> If you have mold and you are exhibiting symptoms of illness most likely

> indicative from mold exposure, you have two choices:

> 1. remove the mold from the building

> or

> 2. remove yourself from the building.

> Sharon

>

>

>

> ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/19/2007 3:10:35 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

janeannmosher@... writes:

dearest sharon

ihave stayed in an old house for far too long and it has killed my lungs. i

can stay at a safe enviornmental hotel but thet are painting all around it, i

have no good answer.

I think you have just provided a VERY good answer for others by recognizing

that you " stayed too long " . Those are wise words of which others should take

heed and learn from your experience.

Sharon

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[Guest guest]

I am truly amazed with the wealth of knowledge this group has and feel very

fortunate to have found it.

Thank you!!

a

" Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

Sharon,

Excellent response! There are many other reasons but her's is the

most succinct right now now. Good work.

Jane,

I, along with all the others, wish their was a magic bullet cure and

a magic bullet test. But there isn't. So, for a little clarity and

expansion of Sharon's comments:

1. Testing for mold is like testing for animals or plants, each is an

entire Kingdom of life composed of millions of different types. High

levels of either one or may not be a " problem. " Compare kittens with

lions or snakes or mosquito's.

2. We don't actually test for mold. We test for mold spores, only one

of an increasing number of component parts responsible for health

effects. This is like deciding safety to drive through a forest of

trees by looking only for their seeds. Dumb and deadly.

3. As Sharon points out so well, each of us reacts differently to

different molds in different ways. There is no clear exposure levels

that apply to most of the population. We can't control the world for

your specific needs and mine and everyone elses because there are too

many differences and they contradict each other. One man's poison may

be another man's cure.

Heatlh Canada has the right idea: People shouldn't live in moldy

houses. If it is there, remove it. Then keep it clean and dry.

As for those of us severely affected by mold growth, some of the

screening tests such as Barb1283 describes may provide a few of the

necessary pieces of information. But none are definitive and each set

is specific to that person. Barb, for example, has spent untold time

dollars developing her own baseline, which may or may not work for

you.

Finally, not all problems are mold, as some on this group can attest.

If mold is the only focus, time and scarce money is thrown away.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

> Jane,

>

> You asked " does anyone know the acceptable levels of mold counts within a

> house? "

>

>

> The answer is that no such magic number exists. This is because:

>

>

>

> Mould growth can influence air quality because both spores and mycelial

> fragments are dispersed into the air and can be inhaled. Their penetration

into

> the bronchial tree depends on their size. The smaller particles penetrate

> deeper into the lungs.

>

> Three features of mould biochemistry are of special interest in terms of

> human health:

> Mould cell walls contain (1->3)-ß-D-glucan, a compound with inflammatory

> properties;

> Mould spores and mycelial fragments contain allergens; and

> The spores of some species contain low molecular weight chemicals that are

> cytotoxic or have other toxic properties (e.g. satratoxins and atranones

> produced by Stachybotrys chartarum).

> Health effects

> Health Canada has carried out two reviews of the scientific literature

> pertaining to the health effects of indoor moulds (Health Canada 1995; 2004).

The

> Institut national de santé publique du Québec also published a review on this

> subject (d'Halewyn et al. 2003). The following conclusions were drawn:

> Exposure to indoor mould is associated with an increased prevalence of

> asthma-related symptoms such as chronic wheezing, irritation symptoms, and

> non-specific symptoms; and

> In laboratory animal studies, instillation of fungal antigens (Penicillium

> sp. and Aspergillus sp.) and fungal cell components [(1->3)-ß-D-glucan]

> resulted in an inflammatory response in the lungs of rodents, while

instillation of

> Stachbotrys chartarum spores resulted in severe histological and biochemical

> changes.

> These conclusions have been supported by more recent findings. In two cohort

> studies (Wickman et al. 2003; Jaakkola et al. 2005), significant associations

> were found between home dampness and the risk of developing asthma. In

> experimental studies, asthma-like responses were observed in mice following

> exposure to a typical building-associated fungus, Penicillium chrysogenum

(Chung

> et al. 2005), and inflammatory responses were seen in rats exposed to low

doses

> of toxins from the same species (Rand et al. 2005)....

> Health Canada considers that mould growth in residential buildings may pose a

> health hazard. Health risks depend on exposure and, for asthma symptoms, on

> allergic sensitization. However, the large number of mould species and

> strains growing in buildings and the large inter-individual variability in

human

> response to mould exposure preclude the derivation of exposure limits. "

> In other words, there are too many variables from simultaneous exposure to

> microbial contaminants found within water damaged buildings, and too many

> variables from person to person's immune systems as to how they will react to

> exposure to ever set a permissible exposure limit from linear extrapolations

of

> one mold at a time.

> If you have mold and you are exhibiting symptoms of illness most likely

> indicative from mold exposure, you have two choices:

> 1. remove the mold from the building

> or

> 2. remove yourself from the building.

> Sharon

>

>

>

> ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jane (or is it Janean?),

It is never too late to get out! Please do not give up. You owe it to

yourself to spend time away from your belongings and environment to see the

difference. With all that is available for temporary housing you can be out of

your house today. Then when you begin to feel better and the brain fog lifts

you will be able to do the next indicated step. Everyone of us that I know

of, no matter how long we were exposed, or how sick we became, began to feel

better once out of the unhealthy environment.

Instead of a hotel (which can be the more expensive alternative) you might

want to consider corporate housing, or what is called short stay rentals or

extended stays. These are less expensive than traditional hotels and have daily

or monthly rates. The extended stay is like a hotel though less expensive

with a kitchenette. Look for one where the windows open. Short stays or

corporate housing are often apartment complexes that have furnished units

available

with everything you need including a fully equipped kitchen. Health wise I

have had better luck with corporate housing since as apartments they do not

have the circulated air of extended stays. A search online for your area

will help you with this. These temporary dwellings are usually more than

familiar with us, since more and more of us have had to turn to these places

for

shelter. Be sure to let them know that you have a sensitivity to mold and they

will work with you.

Bobbins, RN, L.Ac, QME

In a message dated 5/20/2007 6:45:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

janeannmosher@... writes:

i stayed too long . i cough up blood, had i gotten out two years ago i might

not have sufferred so. but my doctors poo poohed mold and now i am too ill

to leave. my advice to one and all get out before you develop bronchiactesis

and ahost of other things. god bless each of you pn your journeys. my love to

all.

In a message dated 5/19/2007 3:10:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

janeannmosher@... writes:

dearest sharon

ihave stayed in an old house for far too long and it has killed my lungs. i

can stay at a safe enviornmental hotel but thet are painting all around it, i

have no good answer.

_snk1955@..._ (mailto:snk1955@...) wrote:

Jane,

You asked " does anyone know the acceptable levels of mold counts within a

house? "

The answer is that no such magic number exists. This is because:

Mould growth can influence air quality because both spores and mycelial

fragments are dispersed into the air and can be inhaled. Their penetration

into

the bronchial tree depends on their size. The smaller particles penetrate

deeper into the lungs.

Three features of mould biochemistry are of special interest in terms of

human health:

Mould cell walls contain (1->3)-ß-D-glucan, a compound with inflammatory

properties;

Mould spores and mycelial fragments contain allergens; and

The spores of some species contain low molecular weight chemicals that are

cytotoxic or have other toxic properties (e.g. satratoxins and atranones

produced by Stachybotrys chartarum).

Health effects

Health Canada has carried out two reviews of the scientific literature

pertaining to the health effects of indoor moulds (Health Canada 1995;

2004). The

Institut national de santé publique du Québec also published a review on

this

subject (d'Halewyn et al. 2003). The following conclusions were drawn:

Exposure to indoor mould is associated with an increased prevalence of

asthma-related symptoms such as chronic wheezing, irritation symptoms, and

non-specific symptoms; and

In laboratory animal studies, instillation of fungal antigens (Penicillium

sp. and Aspergillus sp.) and fungal cell components [(1->3)-ß-D-glucan]

resulted in an inflammatory response in the lungs of rodents, while

instillation of

Stachbotrys chartarum spores resulted in severe histological and biochemical

changes.

These conclusions have been supported by more recent findings. In two cohort

studies (Wickman et al. 2003; Jaakkola et al. 2005), significant

associations

were found between home dampness and the risk of developing asthma. In

experimental studies, asthma-like responses were observed in mice following

exposure to a typical building-associated fungus, Penicillium chrysogenum

(Chung

et al. 2005), and inflammatory responses were seen in rats exposed to low

doses

of toxins from the same species (Rand et al. 2005)....

Health Canada considers that mould growth in residential buildings may pose

a

health hazard. Health risks depend on exposure and, for asthma symptoms, on

allergic sensitization. However, the large number of mould species and

strains growing in buildings and the large inter-individual variability in

human

response to mould exposure preclude the derivation of exposure limits. "

In other words, there are too many variables from simultaneous exposure to

microbial contaminants found within water damaged buildings, and too many

variables from person to person's immune systems as to how they will react

to

exposure to ever set a permissible exposure limit from linear extrapolations

of

one mold at a time.

If you have mold and you are exhibiting symptoms of illness most likely

indicative from mold exposure, you have two choices:

1. remove the mold from the building

or

2. remove yourself from the building.

Sharon

******************************************<WBR>*********<WBR>*_http://www.aol.

http_ (http://www.aol.com./)

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---------------------------------

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.