Re: I disagree: Witholding mold sampling results/ was Whi...

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the response. Let's review the current state of affairs

in the mold industry.

* I can find an expert on mold, who will agree with my position

concerning health effects, no matter what that position is.

* There is limited regulation or oversight in this profession, unlike

asbestos for example.

* There are currently no significant government agencies that clearly

set any guidelines for mold sampling protocol, volume of air, or data

interpretation, even though...

* There are many, many studies that suggest exposure to certain

fungi, even at low/moderate levels, can result in a laundry list of

health problems.

If you and I can agree, in general, on the above points, then I would

submit to you that much of the time, it would be foolish for a landlord

to share test results with each tenant. The odds are, that action would

slow down work, and significantly increase his costs. That is just

reality. As well intentioned as your original comments were, I do not

see it happening. Try to force it, and the landlord will simply go find

an expert that states lab results are too subjective to be taken at all.

Now what?

Also, on the issue of poor people needing testing more than others:

That statement may be true where you live, but I don't think you can

make that assumption in general. In my zip code, I find more issues

in New Construction than anywhere else. I also deal with a lot of

elderly and retired people living in condos. I wasn't ignoring

anything.

Finally, I would assume that all of us here at some point lived through

a mold problem. I know I did. I wasn't rich, but I found a way to take

care of my family. I did what it took to return my home to a healthy

environment. And I would assume that all of us here did. So although

I have empathy with anyone dealing with mold in their home, I don't

automatically assume that they don't possess the intelligence to take

care of themselves. That's insulting to them.

>

>

> ,

>

> The issue of endangering the health and safety of occupants by

withholding

> mold sampling results from occupants who are at risk, is a very

important

> issue to me that I take seriously. I will challenge any IEP or

otherwise who

> condones this practice that further victimizes those dealing with

mold exposure.

> Your response to my original post simply disregarded the issue

[Guest guest]

What we have here is a conflict based on two separate things.

There are moral issues which should efect the commercial sphere, and

commercial issues which should effect the moral sphere.

If there was an easier way to gather this information and make it abailable,

there wouldn't be so much bitterness. People should have a right to do

sampling at their places of work. Students should have the right to do

sampling at their schools.

Apartment dwellers should have the right to do sampling in their apartments.

All without running the risk of expulsion, eviction or firing!

It is criminal to retaliate against someone for trying to protect their

health. But it happens every day. Where are these people supposed to go?

They have a right to be angry, they are being poisoned.

[Guest guest]

,

Just now catching up on my e-mails. I accidentally sent the prior post

before having a chance to respond.

The withholding of mold sampling results from occupants at risk is an

ethical issue which you seem to completely ignore. You continue to disregard

the

health and safety of the occupants as being a priority in favor of obligations

to who is paying the bill. I will address some of your individual comments

below.

In a message dated 7/10/2007 6:22:08 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

jason@... writes:

Thank you for the response. Let's review the current state of affairs

in the mold industry.

* I can find an expert on mold, who will agree with my position

concerning health effects, no matter what that position is.

Yes, this is true of just about all experts for any area. This is why

jury's and judges alike are no longer able to tell who is telling the truth

anymore. So your point being, that this is justification to withhold sampling

results from occupants at risk?

* There is limited regulation or oversight in this profession, unlike

asbestos for example.

* There are currently no significant government agencies that clearly

set any guidelines for mold sampling protocol, volume of air, or data

interpretation, even though...

This is all the more reason for legislative action to regulate this

industry. So your point being, that because this is an unregulated industry

that

steps should not be taken to prevent the concealment of lab results from

residents?

* There are many, many studies that suggest exposure to certain

fungi, even at low/moderate levels, can result in a laundry list of

health problems.

None of your points have merit in your position as to why it should be an

accepted practice for consultants and or their client/employers to withhold

sampling results from occupants at risk. To the contrary, as below you have

supplied me with a number of unethical reasons rationalizing why concealment

of results from occupants should be allowed to continue.

If you and I can agree, in general, on the above points, then I would

submit to you that much of the time, it would be foolish for a landlord

to share test results with each tenant. The odds are, that action would

slow down work, and significantly increase his costs. That is just

reality. As well intentioned as your original comments were, I do not

see it happening. Try to force it, and the landlord will simply go find

an expert that states lab results are too subjective to be taken at all.

Now what?

You are stating that the financial gain of the landlord outweighs the

health and safety of the occupant. And that this should remain the case

because

these landlords might just go out and find themselves experts to say testing

is too subjective.

Ah, yes it would be foolish for the landlord who is attempting to conceal a

liability, to show that card. I do suppose if a landlord had no intention

of doing any type of proper remediation and they released mold sampling

results which called for some serious remediation, then this could certainly

cost

the landlord more time and money. And since very few landlords spend the

money to remediate rentals this could be problematic for them, eh? So according

to you based upon this, landlords should have the right to conceal results

from tenants. And what if defense stopped testing and brought in experts to

dispute the accuracy of the plaintiffs results? You think that defense is not

bringing experts in now to dispute the accuracy of test results of

plaintiffs? Quite frankly, as long as the environmental consultants make their

living

by taking microbial samples, it is highly unlikely that landlords or others

will stop testing.

Also, on the issue of poor people needing testing more than others:

That statement may be true where you live, but I don't think you can

make that assumption in general. In my zip code, I find more issues

in New Construction than anywhere else. I also deal with a lot of

elderly and retired people living in condos. I wasn't ignoring

anything.

You have misinterpreted my comment. I never said poor people need testing

more than others. I have included my full post (changed to blue) at the end of

this sequence as well as added in the full context of all of our posts to

this thread. What I did say is, " I simply pointed out what you seem to have

chosen to ignore, that the majority of those made

ill due to mycotoxin exposure are often those least able to afford to take

the necessary steps to help protect themselves. " Next time you choose to

respond to a specific statement of mine I would appreciate that you not cut

out that statement from your post. The point that I was making that eluded

you was that those financially better off are able to afford to bring in a

consultant to test. Once they know the facts they then are in a better

position

(financially) to leave a contaminated environment, find safe housing and or

to obtain legal assistance if necessary. Contrary to what you think not

everyone is able to do this.

Finally, I would assume that all of us here at some point lived through

a mold problem. I know I did. I wasn't rich, but I found a way to take

care of my family. I did what it took to return my home to a healthy

environment. And I would assume that all of us here did. So although

I have empathy with anyone dealing with mold in their home, I don't

automatically assume that they don't possess the intelligence to take

care of themselves. That's insulting to them.

As far as I am concerned, I would never assume any occupant is intelligent

enough to be able to take care of themselves in a mold exposure.

Intelligence has little to do with knowing what to do in these situations.

However,

being informed of the results of lab tests that show levels of molds that place

residents at risk, is a good start to helping occupants become aware.

You state, " I wasn't rich but I found a way to take care of my family. I did

what it took to return my home to a healthy environment. And I would assume

that all of us here did. " I am glad that you were able to do this.

However, whether you are aware of this or not you have just insulted every

person

suffering the continued effects of mycotoxin exposure who have lost their

homes, their belongings, their health, their ability to work, their life

savings

and their ability to find safe housing. Many of whom continue to remain

homeless.

I am not sure where you are coming from with all of your remarks, whether

you post because you have a service to sell or otherwise, but I have found

your complete lack of sensitivity to the issues taking place with mold victims

very disheartening.

B.

--- In _@ic_ (mailto: )

, bobbinsbiomed@, bobb

>

>

> ,

>

> The issue of endangering the health and safety of occupants by

withholding

> mold sampling results from occupants who are at risk, is a very

important

> issue to me that I take seriously. I will challenge any IEP or

otherwise who

> condones this practice that further victimizes those dealing with

mold exposure.

> Your response to my original post simply disregarded the issue

,

The issue of endangering the health and safety of occupants by withholding

mold sampling results from occupants who are at risk, is a very important

issue to me that I take seriously. I will challenge any IEP or otherwise who

condones this practice that further victimizes those dealing with mold

exposure.

Your response to my original post simply disregarded the issue itself and

attempted to justify this by making an erroneous statement that any tenant

can

bring in a consultant. I am not asking you to solve poverty. I simply

pointed out what you seem to have chosen to ignore, that the majority of

those made

ill due to mycotoxin exposure are often those least able to afford to take

the necessary steps to help protect themselves. Your rationalization in

justifying the withholding of mold sampling results because any tenant can

call in

their own consultant, is a poor excuse for withholding test results from

residents.

I am not clear as to what you are trying to point out that does not work or

why. What are you talking about in relationship to your daily experience?

Please know that I am not questioning your expertise or the type of service

you perform. I have no doubt that what you do with mold inspection and or

with

your trusted and loved companion Trixie, is a valuable service.

B