Re: New ammunition for our battle

[Guest guest]

did I miss it?, where is this file?

>

> I recently posted the summary of an article from the scientific

journal " Applied Environmental Microbiology " which claims to be the

FIRST use of a technology which has definitively proved the existence

of, AND SCIENTIFICALLY MEASURED THE QUANTITY OF, mycotoxins on indoor

surfaces. In my opinion, no previous printed attempts to link indoor

mycotoxins with illness have constituted what most doctors, judges

and lawyers would regard as " scientific " proof. As we all have

experienced, in our own lives, there is a gap between " what we know

to be true " , and " what can scientifically be proven true " , to the

minds of the non-moldie population. The article ends with the promise

to continue researching (and publishing) the connection between

mycotoxins and illness. That ongoing research is being conducted in

Sweden, a far more progressive country than ours, when it comes to

this type of research.

>

> I would like to thank Beth (DCBeth) for obtaining the PDF file of

the complete article, and the author's permission to post it on our

board. You can read, download, and print, the complete article from

our " Files " section. It is listed as " Mycotoxin Mass Spectrometry 7-

07.pdf " . I suggest that you all print out a copy to shove in the

face of all those highly credentialed " morons " that we all come

across, in our everyday struggle.

>

> To hit a home run, you first have to get a bat. This is a bat.

Swing away!

>

> Joe

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sue, Look down righthand column of " Files " list. Look for 7/07 date

and then make sure it is correct file. That is easier than reading

all the titles. Date on right are latest date the File was updated.

He said he just put it in their so it would have a date of July 2007.

>

>

> Sorry, how do we find and print this article? I need to take it to

my local

> Drs.

>

> Ditto!

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Carl for info. For me I am finally away from mold and I don't

have any kind of case going on. Mostly I am afraid about the candida

that has been in my body for nine years. Is there proof there cuz when

I went to the infectious disease doctor in 2000 he said yeast won't

hurt you, go on a low carb diet. He said I was borderline

imunosuppressive. I am allergic to candida and I have tried just about

everything. I think I will eventually die from the yeast.

Mostly I am trying to get our government to do something. I can hardly

live with knowing that we have such criminal people running this

country, the doctors, pharmaceuticals, our food, even some scientists.

Recently I went to my doctor and told him how afraid I am of the

candida, etc. He told me the cost would be astronomical so he

suggested to go to a clinic. How can I expect a clinic to be of help

if when I had the best insurance and went to the top doctors that I

still didn't get proper medical care. Sometimes I just feel like

letting go. What kind of country does this to the people. I won't

give up, but I feel like it.

[Guest guest]

Carl,

You are a brilliant guy, and everything you said was absolutely true.

But, like all of us, myself included, you are failing to recognize

the truly momentous breakthrough that has occurred. I had to read the

article 3 times, before I grasped it, myself. As I understand the

article,(and I will try to confirm this by emailing the article's

author) the breakthrough is NOT JUST the using the technique of " mass

spectrometry " as a new way to SEE mycotoxins, but that this new way

of " seeing " allows us, FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER TO COUNT THE NASTY

STUFF (Quantification).

In science, nothing can be researched, until it is able to be measured

(quantified)first. Only by " measuring " something, in the environment,

can that " something " ever be correlated to the degree of illness and

suffering that is experienced in the human body. This would be the

PROOF that we have all been looking for. The authors of this article

say, in the last paragraph of the article, that they HAVE ALREADY

STARTED research on correlating the quantification of the mycotoxins

with the presence of illness. If the research were being done

somewhere closer than Sweden, I would volunteer to sweep their floors

and wash their test tubes, for free, to help them in their research.

I have taken the time off from being with my 91 year old father who

is hospitalized with bronchitis (in large part due to a 2 year mold

exposure, in the past)to post this reply, and reply to others which

were sent directly to my email address, NOT TO PICK A FIGHT, but to

say " Hallelulah!!!!!!!!!!!! We are finally getting somewhere. " Please

accept my reply in the manner that I am making it. Share my joy.

Joe

--- In , " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...>

wrote:

> Joe,

>

> I agree with LiveSimply on this one. Sometimes the semantics are

> subtle and we have to be careful with how we interpret information.

>

> This study identifies a method of measuring mycotoxins (limited to

> two species) but not a method for determining if mycotoxins do

> anything to people. This means we might be able to " prove " the

> presence of mycotoxins. But measuring is not the same a causing.

>

> So what this says is (some mycotoxins) can now be detected and

> measured. What none of these studies say is whether or not the

> mycotoxins they measure are causing the symptoms or disease. Mere

> presence is not sufficient proof. Now they need further studies to

> see what effect, if any, mycotoxins have on lab cultures, animals

and people.

>

>so that is not the first they were talking about. The first they

>were talking about was in the analysis method they used.

[Guest guest]

, I agree and have had similar experience. Sometimes " Top Docs "

are the least likely to listen to you since they " know it all

already " , i.e. have egos larger than their reputations.

--- In , " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...>

wrote:

>

> ,

>

> Candida is treatable with antifungals (as opposed to antibiotics).

> Because they require

[Guest guest]

it seams some antibiotics and medicines would keep this condition

aggervated or make it worse. ??

--- In , " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...>

wrote:

>

> ,

>

> Candida is treatable with antifungals (as opposed to antibiotics).

> Because they require a prescription you need a doctor that

> understands the condition and the treatment. When I changed

insurance

> plans a few years ago my new doctor insisted I take an HIV test

> because I was on antifungals - she believed the only way to have

> yeast overgrowth was from HIV. When I refused I was sent to an

> infectious disease specialist. He said he knew about Candida and

> wanted to change the prescription. I agreed but only on the

condition

> that if I reacted badly or if the new one didn't work that I go

back

> on the current one. He agreed.

>

> However, when his new Rx didn't work I asked my GP to put me back

on

> the one I came in with. She said the specialist put in his

directions

> to NOT put me back on it. I said thank you but I will be leaving

> now. And I never returned. I went to a doctor - costing much more -

> that knew how to keep me well.

>

> The anti-fungals were (and are) a key to what got me better and

able

> to continue to function. But that was exactly what was ignored,

> prefering his belief over my experience.

>

> It's not always the " top doctors " that help. Instead, it's

the " right

> doctor " for you condition.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

> -----

> > Thanks Carl for info. For me I am finally away from mold and I

don't

> > have any kind of case going on. Mostly I am afraid about the

candida

> > that has been in my body for nine years. Is there proof there

cuz when

> > I went to the infectious disease doctor in 2000 he said yeast

won't

> > hurt you, go on a low carb diet. He said I was borderline

> > imunosuppressive. I am allergic to candida and I have tried just

about

> > everything. I think I will eventually die from the yeast.

> >

> > Mostly I am trying to get our government to do something. I can

hardly

> > live with knowing that we have such criminal people running this

> > country, the doctors, pharmaceuticals, our food, even some

scientists.

> > Recently I went to my doctor and told him how afraid I am of the

> > candida, etc. He told me the cost would be astronomical so he

> > suggested to go to a clinic. How can I expect a clinic to be of

help

> > if when I had the best insurance and went to the top doctors that

I

> > still didn't get proper medical care. Sometimes I just feel like

> > letting go. What kind of country does this to the people. I

won't

> > give up, but I feel like it.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > FAIR USE NOTICE:

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Live,

You said, " What is needed is some way to make mold remediation much

more of a path that

owners will be willing to undertake. How that might happen I can't

guess. "

>>> I agree. By professionals that are qualified in rememdiation at

an affordable price that most could handle. But just like anything

else, there are no two jobs the same and some are more extensive

than others. This is where we need standards in place that they must

follow.

You also said, " IMO, that is what we should be talking about on this

list, rather than

sending each other 'hugz', etc. "

>>>>I disagree. We discuss at the time what needs to be or what

anyone happens to be dealing with at this time. Even though many

things have been discussed over and over, we must not forget there

are new members almost everyday. None of us are that far ahead of

the curve to where a hug or anything else that may help someone in

their time of need, that is never out of line. Whatever it will take

to keep someone from going over the edge. That is what this board is

about, support, hence the name Sickbuildings, SUPPORT and

information group.

KC

--- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...>

wrote:

>

> I think that " getting this information out there " without a WELL

coordinated

> effort to influence the response to it could result in thousands

or even

> millions of renters losing their rented apartments because the

owners of

> their buildings, moldy or not, will see the liability issue as

their ticket

> to sell out and leave the housing biz, or extract huge chunks of

taxpayer

> money " to preserve affordable housing " with NO guarantees that it

will be

> spent wisely or even spent to preserve housing.

>

> In other words, slumlords have known for a long time that mold

makes their

> tenants sick (after all, its in the Bible) but largely, because of

the lack

> of opposition or real sanctions, they have been able to PLAY dumb

and get

> away with murder or close.

>

> When they are no longer able to play dumb, they will want OUT of

the rental

> biz, they will want all those poor people out of their buildings,

and the

> logical way they will go about it is by trying to sell their

buildings to

> the government or tearing them down. The money to buy themor

replace them

> isn't forthcoming so they will want to tear them down.

>

> Many people here seem to think that low income people have some

kind of

> legal right to have housing, somewhere. They don't.

> The price of housing is determined by supply and demand, and so,

if any

> significantly large number of the 'affordable' units suddenly go

off the

> market, the remaining units will increase in value, making the

owners of

> those units anxious to increase rents on THEM too.

>

> What is needed is some way to make mold remediation much more of a

path that

> owners will be willing to undertake. How that might happen I can't

guess.

> IMO, that is what we should be talking about on this list, rather

than

> sending each other 'hugz', etc.

>

> Otherwise, many MORE of the people who are dealing with mold

illness today

> will be on Skid Row or living in their cars or trailers tomorrow..

that is,

> if they can afford to.

>

> Seriously, WE NEED TO LOOK AT THE SOCIAL IMPLICATIONS OF ALL OF

THIS AND

> PLAN FOR THS CHANGE...

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jeanine, Don't you think if doctors merely warned patients that they

needed to take probiotics with antibiotics, antibiotics would do no

harm? I have never understood why they do not. Also antibiotics

medicine instruction booklets, say 'may cause diahrea, vomiting, etc',

but do not say if that develops to contact your doctor or that you may

need to take probiotics. Seems so simple but isn't done.

I got scratched by my pet recently and despite handling it carefully

myself, it developed into an infection which I'm taking an antibiotic

for now but taking probiotics. Do you think I will worsen any fungal

infection I have dispite taking probiotics during the treatment? The

only place I can think of that taking antibiotics would hurt is your

gi tract because it kills beneficial bacteria, so if you replenish, I

would think you could protect yourself from problem of taking

antibiotic.

[Guest guest]

I DONT KNOW, I WAS JUST THINKING ABOUT ANTIBIOTICS CAUSEING MANY WOMAN

TO GET YEAST INFECTIONS WHILE ON THEM AND WONDERED ABOUT TAKEING THEM

WHEN YOU HAVE CANDIDA.

>

> Jeanine, Don't you think if doctors merely warned patients that they

> needed to take probiotics with antibiotics, antibiotics would do no

> harm? I have never understood why they do not. Also antibiotics

> medicine instruction booklets, say 'may cause diahrea, vomiting,

etc',

> but do not say if that develops to contact your doctor or that you

may

> need to take probiotics. Seems so simple but isn't done.

> I got scratched by my pet recently and despite handling it carefully

> myself, it developed into an infection which I'm taking an antibiotic

> for now but taking probiotics. Do you think I will worsen any fungal

> infection I have dispite taking probiotics during the treatment? The

> only place I can think of that taking antibiotics would hurt is your

> gi tract because it kills beneficial bacteria, so if you replenish, I

> would think you could protect yourself from problem of taking

> antibiotic.

>