Guest guest Posted March 4, 1999 Report Share Posted March 4, 1999 My doctor has told me that the Atkins Diet creates keotosis as the basis of it's " fat burning " philosophy and that this is dangerous to diabetics; especially to their kidneys. Is this true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 1999 Report Share Posted March 5, 1999 I've heard the same thing, from both my doctor and the diabetes educator and nutritionist. Interestingly, today there was a program on public radio that I didn't get to hear, dealing with diets such as the Atkins diet, and stressing how dangerous they were for people with diabetes. I wouldn't want to take the chance. Limiting carbs is great ... that's what's working for me, so far ... but overloading the protein is asking for trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 1999 Report Share Posted March 5, 1999 I wouldn't know enough to confirm or deny that myself, but I wouldn't doubt it. The kidneys of a diabetic take a beating as it is, because the body seeks to get rid of the sugar that the cells won't accept through the kidneys, and they have to work overtime. So the liver and the kidneys together have to get rid of all the extra protein also, and they are given even more of a load by loading up on protein. Anyway, like I say, I am not all that sure if these things are true, but I think they are. I will ask my mom about that, since she is a treasure trove of diabetes info. http://home.talkcity.com/GalleryDr/eduardo/index.html LikeWhatIB@... wrote: > From: LikeWhatIB@... > > My doctor has told me that the Atkins Diet creates keotosis as the basis of > it's " fat burning " philosophy and that this is dangerous to diabetics; > especially to their kidneys. Is this true? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Did you know that we have over 85,000 e-mail communities at Onelist? > http://www.onelist.com > Come visit our new web site and explore a new interest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 1999 Report Share Posted March 6, 1999 There is a big difference between diabetic Keto-acidosis which is extremely dangerous to diabetics and happens when your blood glucose goes way high , and Benign Dietary Ketosis (BDK) which is what you are in on the Atkin's Diet. I am diabetic and I am in ketosis on the Atkins diet And my blood sugars, btw, run 95 to 135 these days (rarely 135! Atkins Diet >From: LikeWhatIB@... > >My doctor has told me that the Atkins Diet creates keotosis as the basis of >it's " fat burning " philosophy and that this is dangerous to diabetics; >especially to their kidneys. Is this true? > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Did you know that we have over 85,000 e-mail communities at Onelist? >http://www.onelist.com >Come visit our new web site and explore a new interest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 1999 Report Share Posted March 7, 1999 So if you are on the Atkin's Diet and because of it your blood glucose is being kept within a decent level, (as mine are with this diet - 95 - 135) why should your kidney's be having a problem? If your blood sugars are over 150 (as mine were consistently before going on this diet) THEN your kidneys are at risk, so are your eyes, your feet, your heart.... Meenie Re: Atkins Diet > > >I wouldn't know enough to confirm or deny that myself, but I wouldn't doubt it. >The kidneys of a diabetic take a beating as it is, because the body seeks to >get rid of the sugar that the cells won't accept through the kidneys, and they >have to work overtime. So the liver and the kidneys together have to get rid of >all the extra protein also, and they are given even more of a load by loading >up on protein. Anyway, like I say, I am not all that sure if these things are >true, but I think they are. I will ask my mom about that, since she is a >treasure trove of diabetes info. > > >http://home.talkcity.com/GalleryDr/eduardo/index.html > >LikeWhatIB@... wrote: > >> From: LikeWhatIB@... >> >> My doctor has told me that the Atkins Diet creates keotosis as the basis of >> it's " fat burning " philosophy and that this is dangerous to diabetics; >> especially to their kidneys. Is this true? >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Did you know that we have over 85,000 e-mail communities at Onelist? >> http://www.onelist.com >> Come visit our new web site and explore a new interest > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Start a new hobby. Meet a new friend. >http://www.onelist.com >Onelist: The leading provider of free email list services Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 1999 Report Share Posted March 7, 1999 I only know that when I had my last 24 hr urine collection test my Dr. was worried about my kidney's and I couldn't keep blood sugar under control. I read about asparatame and dug out my old Dr. Atkins book and went on it. I ordered in splenda and drive 50 miles to Little Rock to purchase RC Diet Cola which is sweetened with splenda. I also use Dr. Atkins Lo Carb Bars to satisfy my candy urges. I have been in Ketosis for a month and the last test did show ketosis but none of the indicators for Kidney disease, my BG's were down and I got a good bill of health. Ann S Re: Atkins Diet > > >> >> >>I wouldn't know enough to confirm or deny that myself, but I wouldn't doubt >it. >>The kidneys of a diabetic take a beating as it is, because the body seeks >to >>get rid of the sugar that the cells won't accept through the kidneys, and >they >>have to work overtime. So the liver and the kidneys together have to get >rid of >>all the extra protein also, and they are given even more of a load by >loading >>up on protein. Anyway, like I say, I am not all that sure if these things >are >>true, but I think they are. I will ask my mom about that, since she is a >>treasure trove of diabetes info. >> >> >>http://home.talkcity.com/GalleryDr/eduardo/index.html >> >>LikeWhatIB@... wrote: >> >>> From: LikeWhatIB@... >>> >>> My doctor has told me that the Atkins Diet creates keotosis as the basis >of >>> it's " fat burning " philosophy and that this is dangerous to diabetics; >>> especially to their kidneys. Is this true? >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Did you know that we have over 85,000 e-mail communities at Onelist? >>> http://www.onelist.com >>> Come visit our new web site and explore a new interest >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>Start a new hobby. Meet a new friend. >>http://www.onelist.com >>Onelist: The leading provider of free email list services > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >We are proud as punch of our new web site! >http://www.onelist.com >Onelist: The leading provider of free email community services > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 1999 Report Share Posted March 7, 1999 Glad to hear you had good results with the Atkins Diet. I was on it about 5 years ago and it almost killed me. I was int he hospital for over 40 days getting my body back into the correct balance so that my heart arithyms would go away. It is not recommended at all by any of the major heart doctors. They say the best diet for diabetics with heart problems or suspected heart problems if the Ornish diet that is not as severe as the Atkins and does not deplete some of the important parts of your chemical balance. Bill Newman -- Rochester, NY wtnewman@... Bill@... www.christianmerchants.com List owner: bibletalk@... & disaster@... & medsupport@... Moderator/Host: response@... & preparedness@... & www.delphi.com/disaster www.delphi.com/diabetes plus 12 closed medical discussion groups. wnservices@... -- Web Development -- Web Hosting -- Desktop Publishing Re: Atkins Diet > > >I only know that when I had my last 24 hr urine collection test my Dr. was >worried about my kidney's and I couldn't keep blood sugar under control. I >read about asparatame and dug out my old Dr. Atkins book and went on it. I >ordered in splenda and drive 50 miles to Little Rock to purchase RC Diet >Cola which is sweetened with splenda. I also use Dr. Atkins Lo Carb Bars to >satisfy my candy urges. I have been in Ketosis for a month and the last >test did show ketosis but none of the indicators for Kidney disease, my BG's >were down and I got a good bill of health. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 1999 Report Share Posted March 7, 1999 Bill, I've heard lots of people having success with the Atkins Diet, but I've also heard others who had the same reaction as you did, just not so severe. I think it's like anything else, our bodies all react differently to different things. What scares me about Atkins is the fact the we, as diabetics, have our bodies under enormous stress already. Why add to it? I'll have to confess one more vice: I'm a smoker. My doctor, believe this or not, said that at this point, when I'm getting accustomed to changing my eating habits, the stress of quitting would probably take me back to the snacking, etc., and he doesn't want that. So, at least for the time being, he's not getting on my case about it. He did promise, however, that within the next couple of months he will be addressing that issue. The point of all that is to stress that we need to look at ourselves as " special " individuals with special needs, and even though we may lead normal lives we can't always do the same things that otherwise healthy people could. Sorry for sermonizing. Joanne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 1999 Report Share Posted March 8, 1999 Dr Atkins is a cardiologist, and his diet was created to help his heart patients, the weight loss is a side affect I'm very sorry to hear that you went through such misery. And I hope you are ok now! Meenie Re: Atkins Diet > > >Glad to hear you had good results with the Atkins Diet. I was on it about 5 >years ago and it almost killed me. I was int he hospital for over 40 days >getting my body back into the correct balance so that my heart arithyms >would go away. It is not recommended at all by any of the major heart >doctors. They say the best diet for diabetics with heart problems or >suspected heart problems if the Ornish diet that is not as severe as the >Atkins and does not deplete some of the important parts of your chemical >balance. > > > >Bill Newman -- Rochester, NY >wtnewman@... >Bill@... >www.christianmerchants.com > >List owner: bibletalk@... & disaster@... & medsupport@... >Moderator/Host: response@... & preparedness@... & >www.delphi.com/disaster > www.delphi.com/diabetes plus 12 closed medical >discussion groups. > wnservices@... -- Web Development -- Web Hosting -- Desktop >Publishing > > > Re: Atkins Diet > > >> >> >>I only know that when I had my last 24 hr urine collection test my Dr. was >>worried about my kidney's and I couldn't keep blood sugar under control. I >>read about asparatame and dug out my old Dr. Atkins book and went on it. I >>ordered in splenda and drive 50 miles to Little Rock to purchase RC Diet >>Cola which is sweetened with splenda. I also use Dr. Atkins Lo Carb Bars >to >>satisfy my candy urges. I have been in Ketosis for a month and the last >>test did show ketosis but none of the indicators for Kidney disease, my >BG's >>were down and I got a good bill of health. > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >We are proud as punch of our new web site! >http://www.onelist.com >Onelist: The leading provider of free email community services Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 1999 Report Share Posted March 8, 1999 You are quite right, Joanne! Each of us is an individual and has to see what works for us! There are a lot of low carb diets out there... Berenstein, Protein Power, and diets that " balance " foods , like The Zone. Some people may not be so affected by carbs, too. You have to check and see. Atkins is working wonders for me, but if it caused me health problems I would go to a low carb diet that wasn't quite so restrictive. Another thought, however, is that you can have heart or other medical problems no matter what regimen you are following. It doesn't necessarily mean that the diet caused it. Meenie Re: Atkins Diet > > >Bill, >I've heard lots of people having success with the Atkins Diet, but I've also >heard others who had the same reaction as you did, just not so severe. > >I think it's like anything else, our bodies all react differently to >different things. What scares me about Atkins is the fact the we, as >diabetics, have our bodies under enormous stress already. Why add to it? > >I'll have to confess one more vice: I'm a smoker. My doctor, believe this >or not, said that at this point, when I'm getting accustomed to changing my >eating habits, the stress of quitting would probably take me back to the >snacking, etc., and he doesn't want that. So, at least for the time being, >he's not getting on my case about it. He did promise, however, that within >the next couple of months he will be addressing that issue. > >The point of all that is to stress that we need to look at ourselves as > " special " individuals with special needs, and even though we may lead normal >lives we can't always do the same things that otherwise healthy people >could. > >Sorry for sermonizing. >Joanne > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >We have a new web site! >http://www.onelist.com >Onelist: The leading provider of free email community services Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 1999 Report Share Posted March 8, 1999 > > >Thanks . >I get real aggravated with some of these doctors (and I work in a hospital, >hehe) because of their lackadaisical attitude toward type II diabetes. I have been trying to get a referral to a diabetes clinic with no success. Two doctors have flat out refused. A friend, who is Type I, talked to the nurse practitioner at the clinic she goes to and the woman said that it's awful - the family practice clinic I went to never refers diabetics until it's so bad they need amputations. I am trying a new doctor on Wed. and I called the Canadian Diabetes Association and was told if I get another refusal to file a complaint with the College of Physicians and Surgeons. I am in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada, BTW. Rosie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 1999 Report Share Posted March 8, 1999 Congratulations on your engagement, Meenie !! You know, I've even heard that term bandied about by the doctors though - " borderline diabetic " - that's what they labeled my husband. He is a legitimate Type II - not like my problems - and he never test his BGs. Drinks diet soda like he was a fish - I try to concentrate on me - but he sure worries me!! That's one of the reasons I was so interested in that Splenda-laced Diet RC Cola! That would be soooo terrific to get him to drink that! In a message dated 99-03-08 08:38:52 EST, you write: <<It was through the internet that I learned I should be testing myself, learned that a " borderline diabetic " is a myth, and that carbs tend to send bg's flying into the atmosphere somewhere. I've gone from a large sick woman who's computer was her only outlet, to a healthier more outgoing person who has taken up whitewater canoeing, camping, and is now engaged to the most wonderful man on earth! Meenie >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 1999 Report Share Posted March 8, 1999 Also, perhaps you did not follow his diet all the way. I mean he strongly recommends vitamine suppliments. In fact he perscribes them for his actual patients. I feel like these nutritional additions to his diet must be very important. Ann S Re: Atkins Diet > > >> >> >>Glad to hear you had good results with the Atkins Diet. I was on it about 5 >>years ago and it almost killed me. I was int he hospital for over 40 days >>getting my body back into the correct balance so that my heart arithyms >>would go away. It is not recommended at all by any of the major heart >>doctors. They say the best diet for diabetics with heart problems or >>suspected heart problems if the Ornish diet that is not as severe as the >>Atkins and does not deplete some of the important parts of your chemical >>balance. >> >> >> >>Bill Newman -- Rochester, NY >>wtnewman@... >>Bill@... >>www.christianmerchants.com >> >>List owner: bibletalk@... & disaster@... & medsupport@... >>Moderator/Host: response@... & preparedness@... & >>www.delphi.com/disaster >> www.delphi.com/diabetes plus 12 closed medical >>discussion groups. >> wnservices@... -- Web Development -- Web Hosting -- Desktop >>Publishing >> >> >> Re: Atkins Diet >> >> >>> >>> >>>I only know that when I had my last 24 hr urine collection test my Dr. was >>>worried about my kidney's and I couldn't keep blood sugar under control. >I >>>read about asparatame and dug out my old Dr. Atkins book and went on it. >I >>>ordered in splenda and drive 50 miles to Little Rock to purchase RC Diet >>>Cola which is sweetened with splenda. I also use Dr. Atkins Lo Carb Bars >>to >>>satisfy my candy urges. I have been in Ketosis for a month and the last >>>test did show ketosis but none of the indicators for Kidney disease, my >>BG's >>>were down and I got a good bill of health. >> >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>We are proud as punch of our new web site! >>http://www.onelist.com >>Onelist: The leading provider of free email community services > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Have you visited our new web site? >http://www.onelist.com >Onelist: Helping to create Internet communities > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 1999 Report Share Posted March 8, 1999 Also, heart disease doesn't happen overnight. If you have it, it's going to show up eventually. It certainly won't be better on french fries and stuff like that. Did you eat the typical American diet before starting Atkins? Dr Atkins explains in detail how fat, when eaten with carbs, affects your body negatively - and why... and how it is metabolized and used positively when eaten without the carbs. I'm not knocking what you said, Bill, but I do take what doctors say with a grain of salt. I work with them and they are human just like you and me. They are very resistant to new ideas (especially if it isn't one THEY came up with). When I was diagnosed with diabetes with a bg of 236, my doctor told me I was " borderline diabetic " and I should go " avoid " eating sugar, and try to lose a little weight! He didn't suggest I learn to test myself, didn't send me to any education, didn't mention carbs at all... If I had followed his advice I would hate to see where I would be now. I did follow it for a short time and felt terrible all the time. It was through the internet that I learned I should be testing myself, learned that a " borderline diabetic " is a myth, and that carbs tend to send bg's flying into the atmosphere somewhere. I've gone from a large sick woman who's computer was her only outlet, to a healthier more outgoing person who has taken up whitewater canoeing, camping, and is now engaged to the most wonderful man on earth! Meenie Re: Atkins Diet >> >> >>> >>> >>>Glad to hear you had good results with the Atkins Diet. I was on it about >5 >>>years ago and it almost killed me. I was int he hospital for over 40 days >>>getting my body back into the correct balance so that my heart arithyms >>>would go away. It is not recommended at all by any of the major heart >>>doctors. They say the best diet for diabetics with heart problems or >>>suspected heart problems if the Ornish diet that is not as severe as the >>>Atkins and does not deplete some of the important parts of your chemical >>>balance. >>> >>> >>> >>>Bill Newman -- Rochester, NY >>>wtnewman@... >>>Bill@... >>>www.christianmerchants.com >>> >>>List owner: bibletalk@... & disaster@... & medsupport@... >>>Moderator/Host: response@... & preparedness@... & >>>www.delphi.com/disaster >>> www.delphi.com/diabetes plus 12 closed medical >>>discussion groups. >>> wnservices@... -- Web Development -- Web Hosting -- Desktop >>>Publishing >>> >>> >>> Re: Atkins Diet >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>I only know that when I had my last 24 hr urine collection test my Dr. >was >>>>worried about my kidney's and I couldn't keep blood sugar under control. >>I >>>>read about asparatame and dug out my old Dr. Atkins book and went on it. >>I >>>>ordered in splenda and drive 50 miles to Little Rock to purchase RC Diet >>>>Cola which is sweetened with splenda. I also use Dr. Atkins Lo Carb Bars >>>to >>>>satisfy my candy urges. I have been in Ketosis for a month and the last >>>>test did show ketosis but none of the indicators for Kidney disease, my >>>BG's >>>>were down and I got a good bill of health. >>> >>> >>> >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>We are proud as punch of our new web site! >>>http://www.onelist.com >>>Onelist: The leading provider of free email community services >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>Have you visited our new web site? >>http://www.onelist.com >>Onelist: Helping to create Internet communities >> > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 1999 Report Share Posted March 8, 1999 Thanks . I get real aggravated with some of these doctors (and I work in a hospital, hehe) because of their lackadaisical attitude toward type II diabetes. The numbers of diabetics in the hospital with diabetic foot/leg ulcers, amputations, neuropathies,e tc is tremendous . If you don't get in good control at the beginning, it only gets worse and worse. Once the problems begin it is harder to correct them. Does your hubby come on the internet? There are wonderful groups here that can help, particularly to open the eyes of the newbies There is also a meter bank where you can get a free meter when they have them available. If he doesn't do anything else, if he starts testing himself he will have taken giant strides toward protecting himself from some tremendous problems. If he complains of his feet burning or tingling , or of blurry vision, pounce on him! Meenie Re: Atkins Diet >From: clerk@... > >Congratulations on your engagement, Meenie !! You know, I've even heard that >term bandied about by the doctors though - " borderline diabetic " - that's >what they labeled my husband. He is a legitimate Type II - not like my >problems - and he never test his BGs. Drinks diet soda like he was a fish - I >try to concentrate on me - but he sure worries me!! That's one of the reasons >I was so interested in that Splenda-laced Diet RC Cola! That would be soooo >terrific to get him to drink that! > > > >In a message dated 99-03-08 08:38:52 EST, you write: > ><<It was through the internet that I learned I should be testing myself, >learned that a > " borderline diabetic " is a myth, and that carbs tend to send bg's flying >into the atmosphere somewhere. > > I've gone from a large sick woman who's computer was her only outlet, to a >healthier more outgoing person who has taken up whitewater canoeing, camping, >and is now engaged to the most wonderful man on earth! Meenie >> > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >We are proud as punch of our new web site! >http://www.onelist.com >Onelist: The leading provider of free email community services Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 1999 Report Share Posted March 8, 1999 One problem, I have learned, is HMO's. Many HMO's actually pay doctors that have fewer referrals!! Why? Because specialists charge more! It is outrageous! This is part of the reason why, under HMO's, you have to have permission (referral) to go to a specialist.!!!!! >I have been trying to get a referral to a diabetes clinic with no >success. Two doctors have flat out refused. A friend, who is Type I, >talked to the nurse practitioner at the clinic she goes to and the woman >said that it's awful - the family practice clinic I went to never refers >diabetics until it's so bad they need amputations. I am trying a new >doctor on Wed. and I called the Canadian Diabetes Association and was >told if I get another refusal to file a complaint with the College of >Physicians and Surgeons. I am in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada, BTW. > > > >Rosie > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >We have a new web site! >http://www.onelist.com >Onelist: The leading provider of free email community services Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 1999 Report Share Posted March 9, 1999 That is the big part of his diet plan is the supplements. There are many supplements that he suggested that do not work will with other prescription drugs that have to be take by many heart patients. I was a patient of Dr. Atkins for a few months and yes he is a heart doctor but his main specialty is nutrition and circulation. His diet was aimed at weight control as well as trying to make it a heart safe diet. Problem was cutting out so many things that supplements were needed to keep the body in balance. That is where the Dr. Ornish Diet is better for the heart as it is better eating with less supplements. I even found out today that some of the fluids buildup is due to my heart rate lowering with my better diet but my doctors have again said I need more carbs. I am starting to throw my chemical balance off again so I need to get my carbs up to 25% of my intake. I was down to 12% and thought I was doing good. I still do not know what the carb level has to do with the fluid buildup or the heart rate but they are telling me that it does. Bill Newman -- Rochester, NY wtnewman@... Bill@... www.christianmerchants.com List owner: bibletalk@... & disaster@... & medsupport@... Moderator/Host: response@... & preparedness@... & www.delphi.com/disaster www.delphi.com/diabetes plus 12 closed medical discussion groups. wnservices@... -- Web Development -- Web Hosting -- Desktop Publishing Re: Atkins Diet > > >Also, perhaps you did not follow his diet all the way. I mean he strongly >recommends vitamine suppliments. In fact he perscribes them for his actual >patients. I feel like these nutritional additions to his diet must be very >important. > >Ann S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 1999 Report Share Posted March 9, 1999 Yes, heart problems can develop overnight. Mine did with a flu type of virus. The doctors are just getting around to do more research on this particular problem with heart patients. Just today on a medical segment on TV they showed a new research for people taking anti-bioatics to help with a healthy heart. The plac in my arteries causing all the blockages is not from fat but from a bacteria causing tissue to grow and closing off the arteries. The heart problems I have when on the Atking Diet was with the supplements that I had to take in addition to the regular medications. The body chemistry was changed to the point that the heart could not keep an even beat. Once off the diet and everything went back to normal. Like anything else no one diet of medication will help everyone. That is why everyone should be warned of different problems with everything so they can be on the lookout before there are problems. Just the other day a person wrote to me that my blood thinner was killing me and that I should go off it and onto some supplement. Of course this supplement would cost 5 times as much as the Coumidain and it would not be covered by insurance and the only place to buy it was through her company. I have had people send me nasty notes about my use of Rezulin, Humalog and many of the other drugs that I take. The best flame was the person that for three weeks on a daily basis sent me a flame message about how I was a sinner because I was allowing the doctors to use my body for research and that I am thinking about having a heart transplant. She is so far away from the truth that I finally had to go to her ISP to get her to stop her writings. Maybe you have had problems with some doctors but I also work with some great ones in research work and I trust my life with all of them. If was not for a couple of them I would not be alive now as it was their discoveries of the cause of my heart problems that saved me. Again, in the many years of being diabetic and being and running different medical lists I have seen that diets are like politics. There is never the correct one. Everyone thinks that theirs is the best and that is it. They fight for their diet for everyone. Myself I use a combination of three diet programs and soon a doctor and myself will be working out a new diet program for diabetics with heart and kidney failure. It also pushes the very tight control of the 70s and 80s as averages to maintain. Bill Newman -- Rochester, NY wtnewman@... Bill@... www.christianmerchants.com List owner: bibletalk@... & disaster@... & medsupport@... Moderator/Host: response@... & preparedness@... & www.delphi.com/disaster www.delphi.com/diabetes plus 12 closed medical discussion groups. wnservices@... -- Web Development -- Web Hosting -- Desktop Publishing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 1999 Report Share Posted March 9, 1999 You hit it right on the head. The problem is the HMOs. The doctors have their hands of tied with HMO and hospital groups that they can't practice like they used to. One of my doctors was forced to change hospital groups and before the change he was receptive to almost anything and he and I talked freely over the computer. Now with the practice change the computers are out of the office and he is not allowed the research contacts that he had earlier. Also he is limited to the medications that he can prescribe as the HMOs state which he can or can not use. I am now on Medicaid and Medicare and out of the HMO scene and it is so much nicer. I can go and see who I want when I want without any referral and I feel I am getting much better care even with some of the restrictions that Medicaid puts on me. Again it is the insurance business that actually runs our health care and our lives and not the doctors. Bill Newman -- Rochester, NY wtnewman@... Bill@... www.christianmerchants.com List owner: bibletalk@... & disaster@... & medsupport@... Moderator/Host: response@... & preparedness@... & www.delphi.com/disaster www.delphi.com/diabetes plus 12 closed medical discussion groups. wnservices@... -- Web Development -- Web Hosting -- Desktop Publishing Re: Atkins Diet > > >One problem, I have learned, is HMO's. >Many HMO's actually pay doctors that have fewer referrals!! >Why? Because specialists charge more! It is outrageous! >This is part of the reason why, under HMO's, you have to have permission >(referral) to go to a specialist.!!!!! > > >>I have been trying to get a referral to a diabetes clinic with no >>success. Two doctors have flat out refused. A friend, who is Type I, >>talked to the nurse practitioner at the clinic she goes to and the woman >>said that it's awful - the family practice clinic I went to never refers >>diabetics until it's so bad they need amputations. I am trying a new >>doctor on Wed. and I called the Canadian Diabetes Association and was >>told if I get another refusal to file a complaint with the College of >>Physicians and Surgeons. I am in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada, BTW. >> >> >> >>Rosie >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>We have a new web site! >>http://www.onelist.com >>Onelist: The leading provider of free email community services > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Ta Da! Come see our new web site! >http://www.onelist.com >Onelist: A free email community service > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 1999 Report Share Posted March 9, 1999 Meenie, Some doctors along the way have even told me that DIET is not all that important! I was a heart patient before a cancer patient and diabetic patient and I was told by some of my doctors that propre nutrition would not do all that much good - prescriptions were the only way to counteract the problems you have. Well, pardon me but that's total hogwash!! I think we all can do something to help ourselves beforehand - it was just the luck of the genetic draw for me! As far as my husband is concerned, he for the first two years of being diagnosed, was EXTREMELY careful and brought his BG's down from over 400 to well within normal ranges every day - So, the doctor took him off glucophage - BIG MISTAKE!! - it was like handing a person a ticket to DisneyWorld! He sort of watches what he eats at mealtimes - and yells about wanting more salads (blames me for his weight gain - that I am not feeding him correctly at mealtimes) - but then will turn around and eat cheese puffs and drink diet soda, etc. I have told him that each food is independent and one does not counteract the effects of sugar with one food and then gorge themselves with another - it just doesn't work that way! I think he thinks diabetes can be controlled on an over-all basis and not on a day to day regimen. He's good for a while and then he slips and thinks that is OK. Yes, he is on the net all the time - and I even forward him copies of this message list. You know the old saying - you can lead a horse to water.... Right now, he has 65% use of one of his kidneys and every six months goes for the 24 hr test. One of these days, something like the tingling you mention, etc will happen and that will hopefully be another wake-up call for him. It sounds callous to talk like this - but each of us has to deal with it in our own way - he is more concerned with MY health than his own - and I have pointed that out to him as well. I have pounced on him, Meenie. My validity has gone out the window since I have worse medical problems though - but I DO keep yelling! In a message dated 99-03-08 11:28:15 EST, you write: << Thanks . I get real aggravated with some of these doctors (and I work in a hospital, hehe) because of their lackadaisical attitude toward type II diabetes. The numbers of diabetics in the hospital with diabetic foot/leg ulcers, amputations, neuropathies,e tc is tremendous . If you don't get in good control at the beginning, it only gets worse and worse. Once the problems begin it is harder to correct them. Does your hubby come on the internet? There are wonderful groups here that can help, particularly to open the eyes of the newbies There is also a meter bank where you can get a free meter when they have them available. If he doesn't do anything else, if he starts testing himself he will have taken giant strides toward protecting himself from some tremendous problems. If he complains of his feet burning or tingling , or of blurry vision, pounce on him! >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 1999 Report Share Posted March 9, 1999 Go for it Rosie!! Stick to your guns - it took me 6 years to make someone listen to me about my heart problems - and then I finally got a WOMAN doctor - she sent me right away to a cardiologist when I asked her what pains down the left arm meant. And as far as the cancer was concerned, I was tired all the time, feeling out of sorts, all those little symptoms that don't add up to much - and it took 4 years for the doctor we have to listen - and then only because my husband called and insisted I get some testing done - the next week I was in emergency with pain worse than childbirth and THEN the started testing!! We have figured out - at least for us - that doctors do not listen close enough to female complaints - no matter what they are! Now, don't get mad all you men out there! But, this has been a pattern we have discovered with all our doctors for almost 30 years now. So, you just stick to your guns and be very specific with your symptoms. This is YOUR life you are talking about!! Good luck to you. You will be in my prayers. In a message dated 99-03-08 11:49:40 EST, you write: << I have been trying to get a referral to a diabetes clinic with no success. Two doctors have flat out refused. A friend, who is Type I, talked to the nurse practitioner at the clinic she goes to and the woman said that it's awful - the family practice clinic I went to never refers diabetics until it's so bad they need amputations. I am trying a new doctor on Wed. and I called the Canadian Diabetes Association and was told if I get another refusal to file a complaint with the College of Physicians and Surgeons. I am in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada, BTW. Rosie >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 1999 Report Share Posted March 9, 1999 That's very true!! We have found that in previous HMO plans we have had - now, with this HMO, we have carte blanche - we do not need a referral - thank God!! Because a lot of primaries do not have the ability to determine the seriousness of the condition - and truthfully, that's what the specialist is for. In a message dated 99-03-08 11:53:24 EST, you write: << One problem, I have learned, is HMO's. Many HMO's actually pay doctors that have fewer referrals!! Why? Because specialists charge more! It is outrageous! This is part of the reason why, under HMO's, you have to have permission (referral) to go to a specialist.!!!!! >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 1999 Report Share Posted March 9, 1999 Hi Check your insurance alot of HMO " S will let you choose the specialist as your primary care provider now..... Lori Re: Atkins Diet > > >One problem, I have learned, is HMO's. >Many HMO's actually pay doctors that have fewer referrals!! >Why? Because specialists charge more! It is outrageous! >This is part of the reason why, under HMO's, you have to have permission >(referral) to go to a specialist.!!!!! > > >>I have been trying to get a referral to a diabetes clinic with no >>success. Two doctors have flat out refused. A friend, who is Type I, >>talked to the nurse practitioner at the clinic she goes to and the woman >>said that it's awful - the family practice clinic I went to never refers >>diabetics until it's so bad they need amputations. I am trying a new >>doctor on Wed. and I called the Canadian Diabetes Association and was >>told if I get another refusal to file a complaint with the College of >>Physicians and Surgeons. I am in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada, BTW. >> >> >> >>Rosie >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>We have a new web site! >>http://www.onelist.com >>Onelist: The leading provider of free email community services > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Ta Da! Come see our new web site! >http://www.onelist.com >Onelist: A free email community service > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 1999 Report Share Posted March 9, 1999 clerk@... wrote: > From: clerk@... > > Meenie, > > Some doctors along the way have even told me that DIET is not all that > important! I was a heart patient before a cancer patient and diabetic patient > and I was told by some of my doctors that propre nutrition would not do all > that much good - prescriptions were the only way to counteract the problems > you have. <snip> > > .. my husband ... thinks diabetes can be controlled on an over-all basis and not > on a > day to day regimen. He's good for a while and then he slips and thinks that is > OK.<snip> > " Tight control " are today's buzzwords. It is now recommended that diabetics keep their BG's in the range that prevents complications. I try to keep mine between at least 80 and 140, with 90 to 120 preferable. Complications will eventuallly result from letting it get up over 200 all the time. I don't have time right now to look for it, but you will find a section on this at either diabetes.com, or diabetes.org. Also, yelling is not good either. Anger, yelling, fear, anxiety, and all those type of emotions and reations also make your BG's go up. The Serenity Prayer is a good remedy for that kind of stuff, IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 1999 Report Share Posted March 9, 1999 What other drugs don't they work with? They are just multivitamins and minerals, along with some fish oils.. I use an over the counter mvi. You were a patient of Dr Atkins'? In his book he says he didn't create this diet for weight loss at all, but to help his heart patients. The weight loss, according to him, is merely a fringe benefit. Meenie Re: Atkins Diet > > >That is the big part of his diet plan is the supplements. There are many >supplements that he suggested that do not work will with other prescription >drugs that have to be take by many heart patients. I was a patient of Dr. >Atkins for a few months and yes he is a heart doctor but his main specialty >is nutrition and circulation. His diet was aimed at weight control as well >as trying to make it a heart safe diet. Problem was cutting out so many >things that supplements were needed to keep the body in balance. > >That is where the Dr. Ornish Diet is better for the heart as it is better >eating with less supplements. I even found out today that some of the fluids >buildup is due to my heart rate lowering with my better diet but my doctors >have again said I need more carbs. I am starting to throw my chemical >balance off again so I need to get my carbs up to 25% of my intake. I was >down to 12% and thought I was doing good. I still do not know what the carb >level has to do with the fluid buildup or the heart rate but they are >telling me that it does. > > > >Bill Newman -- Rochester, NY >wtnewman@... >Bill@... >www.christianmerchants.com > >List owner: bibletalk@... & disaster@... & medsupport@... >Moderator/Host: response@... & preparedness@... & >www.delphi.com/disaster > www.delphi.com/diabetes plus 12 closed medical >discussion groups. > wnservices@... -- Web Development -- Web Hosting -- Desktop >Publishing > > > Re: Atkins Diet > > >> >> >>Also, perhaps you did not follow his diet all the way. I mean he strongly >>recommends vitamine suppliments. In fact he perscribes them for his actual >>patients. I feel like these nutritional additions to his diet must be very >>important. >> >>Ann S > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >We are proud as punch of our new web site! >http://www.onelist.com >Onelist: The leading provider of free email community services Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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