Re: Higher pay with LIC-P.

[Guest guest]

Gene Gandy says:

Some items y'all may find to be of interest. I recently asked members of the

EMSEAT list who are college-affiliated to list the number of hours that will

be given for currently held certifications and they range from none to 39.

Tyler Junior College will grant up to 26 credit hours by examination for

certifications, no matter where or how they were obtained. In order to obtain

credit, the applicant must pass the final examinations in each of the courses

they want credit in. These will be the same exams taken by our students.

Some colleges require that a minimum of 15 hours or 25% of the total number of

hours required for degree be taken at that institution. I don't know of any

that have a residency requirement.

Our requirement is that at the time you apply for hours by exam you must be

enrolled in a course at TJC, and the equivalent of one semester's course load

must be taken here. However, we offer many courses by distance education and

through the Internet and are adding more all the time.

We offered our first satellite distance education Basic EMT courses at Van and

Grand Saline high schools this semester and will expand that to Intermediate

in the summer and Paramedic Completion in the fall. This is our first

satellite distance course and we are learning as we go but will expand.

Students in those locations participate in classroom discussion through live

video satellite links, and skill instructors travel to their locations for

skills labs and testing.

At the same time, this week we are adding 48 hours of CE to our website and

will continue to expand that.

Distance education takes time to set up. We are progressing very deliberately

and learning as we go, but soon you'll be able to take significant portions of

our degree plan, including many components of the Paramedic Associate Degree

over the net. If you live outside our service area, we will enter into

cooperative agreements with colleges in your area for you to do clinicals and

skills laboratories. I have yet to have an educator from another college

state that they wouldn't be interested in participating in such a program.

I know that many other educators are working on similar programs. So, instead

of being EXCLUSIVE, we're making every effort to be INCLUSIVE. The Virtual

College is now a reality but is not yet running at full speed. But soon it

will be.

For anyone wanting to get credit by exam through our program who is afraid

s/he won't be able to pass our exams, we're adding all our lectures to our web

site. We plan to charge a dollar an hour or less for access to those lectures

and credit for CE at the same time. We're talking with the National Registry,

as are others, about their current rules excluding this kind of CE and expect

that progress will soon be made with them.

Education should be available to all, and it should be user friendly. That

means not having to move into a college's area, not having to attend classes

on campus, and being able to do your work at 0300 if that's when you work best

and have the opportunity to work.

The education system in Texas has some kinks to be worked out regarding

service areas and so forth. When the present rules were put in place distance

learning and Internet courses didn't exist. But these kinks are being worked

out and soon there will be the opportunity for anybody with a computer or

access to one (through your public library) to take lots and lots of college

courses. We even plan to put lectures on CDs and ship them to people who

don't have Internet access. That can be done very cheaply.

So, please cut us educators a little slack when discussing the availability of

college education. It's there now for most and soon will be there for

everyone in multiple formats to suit individual needs.

Gene Gandy

EMS Professions Program Director

Tyler Junior College

In a message dated 3/2/1999 22:38:16 Central Standard Time,

washcoems@... writes:

<< Subj: [texasems-L] Re: Higher pay with LIC-P.

Date: 3/2/1999 22:38:16 Central Standard Time

From: washcoems@... ()

Reply-to: <A HREF= " mailto:egroups " >egroups</A>

To: egroups

Sorry,

What's name of the Department you were representing? Trust me I know the

process, been there 27 years and serve on the first EMS Provider Committee.

As

they say,been there, done that. Still doing it and will keep doing it. If you

don't succeed , try and try again, and I will.

bksmith@... wrote:

> I understand that you are offended although I cannot agree with your post

> but I would like to offer a suggestion. Every 3 months there are meetings

> going on about EMS Rules; You can either go to Austin to express your view

> points or find out who might be on these committees and contact them to

> express your views. This is what I did. Did everything go my way? No, it

> did not but at least I stated what Me as well as the Department I represent

> felt. I am honestly not trying to offend you but more people have to stand

> up so they can be heard before things are passed. The people that are on

> these committees talk to a great deal of people and do make an attempt to

> do whats best for EMS.

>

> By the way; I do think education is the answer!

>

> Brent , FF,EMT-P

>

> At 06:54 PM 3/2/99 -0000, you wrote:

> > After attending an instructor course last night, I find that I am very

> much offended by the attitude of the people that made up the laws regarding

> Licensure. I understand that education is very important, but what about

> the pioneers in this field. Oh, you say wages will increase, get real,

> with this new balanced budget, the cut-backs by Medicare and Medicaid do

> you really thing that if our employers are going to be hurt by this new

> situation we are going to make more money. No we are only going to hurt

> our own profession. There will be less Paramedics in the State of Texas

> after September 1, 2002 than there were 10 years ago.

> >

> > wrote:

> >Original Article: /list//?start=2885

> >> I must take exception to your post. It seems that you are as guilty as

> anyone

> >> else of being negative and " flaming " folks for what they post on this

list

> >> server. I agree with you in some aspects of your post but must disagree

> with your

> >> basic theory. EDUCATION will next impact level of pay! Supply and

> demand are

> >> still forces to be reckoned with in ANY economy. Further, if an

> employer wishes

> >> to pay the best they can, there are still limiting factors to that

> equation. Call

> >> volumes, reimbursement rates, subsidies and many other rates all factor

> into the

> >> final outcome of salaries, wages and benefits. Until we as a group are

> able to

> >> unify, cease and desist in the constant disagreement that so many seem

> to thrive

> >> on, we will not as a group make any progress. As an employer I have no

> " cap " on

> >> what I desire to see the people who work with us earn. At the same time

> there are

> >> very real limits to what we can pay them based around reimbursement

rates,

> >> collection rates and call volumes. I would gladly see the lowest paid

EMS

> >> professional make LVN or RN wages. At this time in Texas that is almost

an

> >> impossibility due to the disparity in reimbursement rates. I don't know

> where you

> >> are from, but I can guarantee you we have the strongest desire to hire

> the BEST

> >> people we can and pay them as MUCH as we can to reach our goal of

> providing the

> >> BEST care we can to our patients. What we as a group must do is to stop

> arguing

> >> amongst ourselves, realize that every community presents a different set

of

> >> demographics and find a way to UNITE and move forward. Many of your

> points are

> >> valid as are many of 's. Why do we have to be so NEGATIVE. Let's

> look for

> >> ways to be POSITIVE together and move forward instead of being mired in

> negativity

> >> and dissension. Just a few thoughts that I have been holding back for

> several

> >> months in watching this list server. I trust you will accept this post

> in the

> >> spirit it has been offered and feel no offense with it. I will be

> waiting for the

> >> fire and brimstone that may very well follow.

> >>

> >> EASTEX EMS

> >>

> >> Aclavern33@... wrote:

> >>

> >> > You know this kind of attitude is why poeple like you and the rest of

the

> >> > people of texas will take forever to catch up with the real world. No

> one was

> >> > critizing you, just stating that we should be supportive. As Donn

> stated if

> >> > you really want it nothing will stop you from getting to it..no

> excuses or

> >> > whining. Nothing was said about how long it will take to get there.

> No one

> >> > was talking about your family...I frankly don't care..but you stated

> in your

> >> > message about family situations.

> >> >

> >> > I was mearly ponting out that instead of bickering about who has

> what...we

> >> > should be concentrating on getting the education we need to remain

> competative

> >> > and quit settling for what scraps that employers though out there to

> >> > prospective employees in EMS. You need to go back and read my

> original post

> >> > went you calm down and stop with the temper tantrum. If you don't

> understand,

> >> > then I have made my point you are no different from many of the others

> of your

> >> > kind that I have met in Texas...If you and others want to continue

> continue to

> >> > settle and be the bastard child of the medical profession, please let

> me not

> >> > stand in your way. All of us in EMS should demand better pay,

> benefits and

> >> > access to education if our jobs demand it. We should have a

scholorship

> >> > program so cost is not a problem as well as some sort of voice. You

> should

> >> > not have to make a choice between feeding your family and getting more

> >> > education to give you more choices in the field of employment when it

> comes to

> >> > pay and benefits.

> >> >

> >> > As far as a purple bag...Never in all my years have I every carried

> one, nor

> >> > do I know about one..so know I don't know what you mean ( that must be

> a texas

> >> > thing like the box color medic stuff that was talked about sometime

> earlier.

> >> > I had to ask a local guy what that was all about.) And I would never

> want a

> >> > whiney partner like you or many of the others that have been

continully

> >> > whining and bitching on this list serve about LIC-P. You fail to see

the

> >> > point. Go to your local medical center. I happen to know about

> Austin and

> >> > Temple...Look at the info boards and see tons of info about

> scholorships and

> >> > grants for nurses and other professionals....What do you see for EMS?

> I have

> >> > never seen anything. Tuitoin re-embursement programs for those

> wanting to go

> >> > in nursing...but what do you seen for those wanting to become CCT or

> neonate

> >> > or flight program. Nothing!!! HELLO...does anyone out there see a

> problem

> >> > with this picture.

> >> >

> >> > If you want an education, got get it..If not, then don't..but don't

> downgrade

> >> > those you have gotten theirs. Nor down grade those who have chose not

> to for

> >> > whatever the reason. I frankly see no difference either way..a medic

is a

> >> > medic, with the exception of what your paycheck may look like. Now

> when you

> >> > starting climbing that management ladder then it WILL make a

> difference to

> >> > those that desire that. As I stated in my original post I was one of

the

> >> > forntunate that is in the right place at the right time and have a

> college

> >> > education. IN the state of texas it means nothing as far as EMS goes.

> Why

> >> > because I refuse to settle for poor pay and marginal to poor benefits.

> I've

> >> > worked too hard to go backwards and take 50% cut in pay and poor

> benefits. I

> >> > don't care how many times I'm called. Until the whole package is what

> I want

> >> > those out there that want to settle can have it. So kelly good luck

> to you.

> >> > and yes you are porud so proud that you seem to have failed to see the

> points

> >> > that I was trying to point out. Proud is not just an EMS trait..its

> appears

> >> > to be a texas trait.

> >> > aclavern

> >> >

> >> > First off let me start by telling you that my marriage and the

equality

> >> > in my relationship is not the point and frankly none of your business.

> >> > You did not start this discussion off right... my point is simply that

> >> > some people will take a little bit longer to get their licensure than

> >> > others and they should not be beaten down with comments that they are

> >> > holding the profession behind. And for a history on my family since

you

> >> > are so quick to critisize,... My husband is a Supervisor for our 911

> >> > service locally, not to mention we own an ambulance service that is

very

> >> > successful. I work for our service full-time, have 2 children one

being

> >> > a baby. I also take care of approx. 80 " special need " employees. By

> >> > this I mean I am there for them 24hrs a day 7 days a week. If they

need

> >> > me I am there, they have borrowed money from us, we sponsor their

> >> > children in sports, you name it we have done it. I treat my employees

> >> > with respect and treat them well. Therefore, they take up a lot of my

> >> > time. Our priorities are much different than yours so keep your

> >> > comments about my family to yourself, you were out of line in your

> >> > comments. You can come and walk in my shows and then we will talk.

> >> > Certified or Licensed I am a good medic who takes care of my patients.

> >> > That is my job and I will do it well and be proud of my

accomplishments.

> >> > By the way, I have a buttload of certs., instructor in a few and got

> >> > everything as a single parent who did not have any child support so

> >> > don't preach to me about accomplishing things and there are no

> >> > excuses... you need to chill out and support everyone instead of

beating

> >> > them down give them a hand and help them up. I also have enough

college

> >> > hours to apply for my lic. just haven't had the time to apply them. I

> >> > will be expecting my apology. And if you and your attitiude were to

> >> > ever be my partner you would be fetching a purple bag every call. (Do

> >> > you have enough experience to know what that means?)

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > Certified EMT-P

> >> >

> >> > n a message dated 2/16/99 9:42:08 PM Central Standard Time,

> >> > kasyd@...

> >> > writes:

> >> >

> >> > & gt; DONN

> >> > & gt;

> >> > & gt; i want to start this off by saying i agree with you that if you

> >> > want it

> >> > & gt; bad enough you will find away, no excuses. But you have to

> >> > realize a

> >> > & gt; few factors, for one I am a certified medic, my husband is a

medic

> >> > as

> >> > & gt; well and both of us want to get our license. We have kids,

guess

> >> > who

> >> > & gt; gets to go to school first and who stays home and watches the

> >> > kids? You

> >> > & gt; guessed it! Little ole' me. I'm not bitching and I am not

> >> > " holding "

> >> > & gt; back the proffession but I am doing the best that I can and I

know

> >> > a lot

> >> > & gt; of female medics who are in my shoes, the man is the bread

winner

> >> > so you

> >> > & gt; new licensed medics need to give everyone a chance to better

> >> > themselves

> >> > & gt; before you start drawing lines on who deserves more of what.

> >> > Check some

> >> > & gt; of the posts, there are already comments. I'm just asking

> >> > everyone to

> >> > & gt; be patient and let some time go by before they start making

those

> >> > & gt; comments, people get defensive, I would if I was trying and not

> >> > quite

> >> > & gt; there yet. Just don't let this divide everyone. You know ems

> >> > folks are

> >> > & gt; very proud.

> >> > & gt;

> >> > & gt; kelly

> >> > & gt; emt-p

> >> > & gt;

> >> > & gt;

> >> >

> >> > I. sorry but I disagree with you. I am a new medic about to be

> >> > certified and licensed in the coming months. I am a parent, wife and

> >> > the

> >> > bread winner of my family. I have to agree with Donn..If you want it

> >> > you will

> >> > find a way to get to it..no excuses. I have done it parenting two

> >> > special

> >> > needs children and moving every two to three yrs. I'm sorry to hear

if

> >> > you

> >> > and your husband do not have an equal relationship but in my family my

> >> > husband

> >> > and I are equal parentners in parenting. All that I can do he can do

> >> > equally.

> >> > And by the way my children are both girls. We have taken turns to

allow

> >> > each

> >> > other to continue our educations.

> >> >

> >> > I think what we are all seeing is those that valued education very

much

> >> > and

> >> > pursued degrees and used there EMS jobs as the vehicle to get there.

So

> >> > they

> >> > were more than ready and waiting for this change to happen. Now there

> >> > is also

> >> > the group that now are playing the catch up game. I think it is a

case

> >> > of

> >> > being either " reactive " or " proactive " .

> >> >

> >> > No one is better or worse for having a degree. Just some of us fell

> >> > into the

> >> > time frame that we were ready to accept the new crendentials for

> >> > hardwork of

> >> > completing our college education.

> >> >

> >> > If you look at the nursing profession, this long time bickering has

been

> >> > going

> >> > on for years between ADN and BSN nurses. The current trend is that

> >> > employers

> >> > are beginning to demand BSN nurses. ADN are being left out when it

> >> > comes to

> >> > better paying saleries and management positions. Is this right?

> >> > No...but in

> >> > the sceme of management is it the correct thing to do. The higher

your

> >> > level

> >> > of education the better you can expect your wages to be as well as the

> >> > farther

> >> > you can expect to advance. What does this mean? Well, the LVN that

> >> > gets her

> >> > ADN and has 15 yrs experence will probably get looked over for

promotion

> >> > when

> >> > placed against a similar employee with equal time but as a BSN.

> >> >

> >> > This where it will all happen in EMS as well. For the next few years

> >> > will be

> >> > the phasing in point of Associate degree Paramedics...then we will all

> >> > be

> >> > required to have associate degrees..then will start the phasing in of

BS

> >> > degrees. What will happen to those resistent to change or unable to

> >> > change,

> >> > well they will be a dieing breed replaced by the so called youngsters.

> >> > It

> >> > doesn't make it right but it makes it right in the eyes of big

business.

> >> >

> >> > All of us should be checking out other states that started this change

> >> > many

> >> > years ago. GA is one of those states. I believe Hawaii is also.

> >> >

> >> > Certificate education is becoming a thing of the past...we are as a

> >> > country is

> >> > trying to raise our education standards to require at least AS degree.

> >> > I

> >> > don't think whether or not someone is " deserving " of licensure or not

is

> >> > an

> >> > issue here. The issue is that if we all don't start to change as our

> >> > profession is demanding change then we will get left out in the cold.

> >> > Those

> >> > that choose not to be lincensed will not hold back the profession.

this

> >> > will

> >> > move forward either way. I've seen it happen in other states. They

> >> > just

> >> > start recruiting from out of state and hitting colleges hard for new

> >> > recruites.

> >> >

> >> > Take a look at the world around you. Older workers that have been a

> >> > position

> >> > for years and nearing retirement are having to go back to school to

keep

> >> > there

> >> > jobs and that dream to retire. If they refuse that change, then they

> >> > can

> >> > expect to see there position be eliminated to get in someone with more

> >> > education.

> >> >

> >> > Now that this change is effect for EMS...WE need to demand that

schools

> >> > and

> >> > employers work with us to help us all acheive that goal of licensure

(of

> >> > course if that is what you want). Many local FD here in texas give

> >> > there EMTs

> >> > paid time off to go to Paramedic school so they can better themselves

> >> > without

> >> > taking food off the table. I know that SC also does the same thing

for

> >> > there

> >> > EMTs to become medics. They even offer scholorships. We need to

start

> >> > demanding the same types of treatment. If can be done but we have to

> >> > stick

> >> > together. FD do have a union to help back them up. I know very

little

> >> > about

> >> > unions or whether or not they would be helpful to EMS in Texas.

> >> >

> >> > I'm still pretty new to the state but from what I see its time that we

> >> > unite

> >> > and stop settling for what employers throw out there and demand by

> >> > professionlism and education what we deserve as a profession. Just

> >> > remember

> >> > nothing worthwhile comes without blood, sweat tears and sacrifice!

> >> >

> >> > To all

> >> >

> >> > My prayers and best wishes and we endure this time of change.

> >> >

> >> > A. Lavern (EMT-B for now...hope to be medic soon)

> >> > </td></tr></table>

> >> >

> >> >

------------------------------------------------------------------------

> >> > Internet stocks: hype or reality?

> >> > FT.com. The Financial Times online.

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> >> >

> >> >