Re: AC units and mycotoxins

[Guest guest]

Stachy and fusarium can grow, as well as many other molds. But if the

a/c is not maintained you are also dealing with bacteria, endotoxins

and the symptoms tend to overlap. You may not be susceptible to mold

right off, the bacteria can and does weaken your immune system and

after that...... Both can and do get you very ill. I know, this

happened to me.

Sharon

>

> What kind of molds and mycotoxins poorly maintained AC units can

> produce? Is there some mold species that can grow in AC units which

> can produce trichothecenes?

>

> I know about Penicillum and Aspergillus, but I didn't find they can

> produce trichothecenes.

>

[Guest guest]

bratislav,

AC mold grows mostly on the dust that collects in them, not the plastic

filters or metal coils and other hardware. Also, they can collect mold from

the air and then release it later.

How are you testing it?

Would you be able to set up a powered ventilation intake vent that grabbed

air from somewhere above/beyond the plume?

On 9/29/07, tigerpaw2c <tigerpaw2c@...> wrote:

>

> Stachy and fusarium can grow, as well as many other molds. But if the

> a/c is not maintained you are also dealing with bacteria, endotoxins

> and the symptoms tend to overlap. You may not be susceptible to mold

> right off, the bacteria can and does weaken your immune system and

> after that...... Both can and do get you very ill. I know, this

> happened to me.

>

> Sharon

>

>

> >

> > What kind of molds and mycotoxins poorly maintained AC units can

> > produce? Is there some mold species that can grow in AC units which

> > can produce trichothecenes?

> >

> > I know about Penicillum and Aspergillus, but I didn't find they can

> > produce trichothecenes.

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Where are you getting your information from? Mold DOES grow on the

cooling coils and the drip pan right below it. Cool, dark and damp,

prime feeding ground for mold and bacteria...

Sharon

> > >

> > > What kind of molds and mycotoxins poorly maintained AC units

can

> > > produce? Is there some mold species that can grow in AC units

which

> > > can produce trichothecenes?

> > >

> > > I know about Penicillum and Aspergillus, but I didn't find

they can

> > > produce trichothecenes.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Stachy and fusarium can grow, as well as many other molds. But if >the

> a/c is not maintained you are also dealing with bacteria, endotoxins

> and the symptoms tend to overlap. You may not be susceptible to mold

> right off, the bacteria can and does weaken your immune system and

> after that...... Both can and do get you very ill. I know, this

> happened to me.

>

> Sharon

Hello Sharon,

That's interesting - I haven't read so far that stachy and fusarium

can grow inside AC units (but I don't doubt it!). Do you happen to

have some URLs that cite this information which I could show to the

officials of the problematic building?

I've been reading about AC units a lot on the Internet, and all I

could find is that Aspergillus and Penicillum species can grow there

(but as far as I know they don't make trichothecens, while I have the

typical trichothecene poisoning symptoms). Stachy is usually mentioned

when a part of the building is contaminated with it, then AC units

merely srpead that contamination through the air.

By the way, I guess I am " lucky " that I don't work IN that building -

but it is only 20 meters from my windows and the spore / mycotoxin

plumes from their AC units are sometimes hardly bearable. They have

put even more on my side recently

I'm now really worried. Today I almost had a heart attack, beside

other problems. And of course, nobody believes me - they all say it's

impossible.

[Guest guest]

>

> bratislav,

>

> AC mold grows mostly on the dust that collects in them, not the

> plastic filters or metal coils and other hardware. Also, they can

> collect mold from

> the air and then release it later.

Oh yes, it CAN grow on the filters - if they are badly maintained or

not maintaned at all it will grow.

> How are you testing it?

I can't test it (for now), but I can feel it on myself every time they

turn the damn things on.

> Would you be able to set up a powered ventilation intake vent that

> grabbed air from somewhere above/beyond the plume?

No, that is not possible, and even if it was possible it would be of

very limited benefit.

In effect I have something like a broken factory for weapons of mass

distruction next to my home and I seem to be powerless to do anything

about it. No improvisation can do any good in this situation.

[Guest guest]

Sharon,

On 9/29/07, tigerpaw2c <tigerpaw2c@...> wrote:

> Where are you getting your information from?

Its been discussed here many times!

> Mold DOES grow on the

> cooling coils and the drip pan right below it. Cool, dark and damp,

> prime feeding ground for mold and bacteria...

The mold eats DUST... Dust and water especially in those outdoor drip pans.

So, Bratislav was talking about other people's air conditioners and if

that was what was making him ill, it might not be something he could

do much about, since

those machines are owned by other people. Since he lives in a city,

they are also quite possibly very close to him.

Those spaces between the buildings are called 'air wells' or 'light

wells' . They can be very narrow.. Windows open into them. Windows

with air conditioners.

City dwellers depend on being able to get clean air into their

apartments from the air wells.. If the air well air is contaminated

with mold, you need to 'get' your clean air somewhere else and pipe it

in, like water and electricity and gas..

[Guest guest]

Does it make any difference honestly what the mold/bacteria is

feeding. Either way it is there on the coils, in a central unit, but

also will appear on a wall or window unit. Those coils trap

everything, dust, pollen, your hair, the cats, you name it. In a

central unit (residential) most of them are in the attic or crawl

space, the drip pan right below the cooling coils, not outside, is a

breeding ground and now because of this you can buy a tablet, not

sure if its chlorine to prevent this from growing. In the wall units

the mold again just like a central unit mold will grow on everything

and yes, mainly dust, on every electrial componet if it is not taken

care of properly.

Was it stachy, fusarium and other molds found in the unit itself?

Not necessarily, found inside the duct and the outside. Where it

originated from, could have been anywhere in the building since all

the air was being circulated through the conditioner.

Jeff or Carl I'm sure can explain in other terms. The cooling coils

are one of the worst places where mold can grow. Doesn't make any

difference what it is feeding on.

I believe the original question what type of mycotoxins can come the

a/c. Nothing was mentioned about other peoples a/c units in the

post.

KC

>

> > Where are you getting your information from?

>

> Its been discussed here many times!

>

> > Mold DOES grow on the

> > cooling coils and the drip pan right below it. Cool, dark and

damp,

> > prime feeding ground for mold and bacteria...

>

> The mold eats DUST... Dust and water especially in those outdoor

drip pans.

>

> So, Bratislav was talking about other people's air conditioners

and if

> that was what was making him ill, it might not be something he

could

> do much about, since

> those machines are owned by other people. Since he lives in a

city,

> they are also quite possibly very close to him.

>

> Those spaces between the buildings are called 'air wells' or 'light

> wells' . They can be very narrow.. Windows open into them. Windows

> with air conditioners.

>

> City dwellers depend on being able to get clean air into their

> apartments from the air wells.. If the air well air is contaminated

> with mold, you need to 'get' your clean air somewhere else and

pipe it

> in, like water and electricity and gas..

>

[Guest guest]

Branislav,

I don't have any documents without checking throughly, but I do have

lab results and that's how it was determined.

KC

--- In , " Branislav " <arealis@...>

wrote:

>

> > Stachy and fusarium can grow, as well as many other molds. But

if >the

> > a/c is not maintained you are also dealing with bacteria,

endotoxins

> > and the symptoms tend to overlap. You may not be susceptible to

mold

> > right off, the bacteria can and does weaken your immune system

and

> > after that...... Both can and do get you very ill. I know, this

> > happened to me.

> >

> > Sharon

>

>

> Hello Sharon,

>

> That's interesting - I haven't read so far that stachy and fusarium

> can grow inside AC units (but I don't doubt it!). Do you happen to

> have some URLs that cite this information which I could show to the

> officials of the problematic building?

>

> I've been reading about AC units a lot on the Internet, and all I

> could find is that Aspergillus and Penicillum species can grow

there

> (but as far as I know they don't make trichothecens, while I have

the

> typical trichothecene poisoning symptoms). Stachy is usually

mentioned

> when a part of the building is contaminated with it, then AC units

> merely srpead that contamination through the air.

>

>

> By the way, I guess I am " lucky " that I don't work IN that

building -

> but it is only 20 meters from my windows and the spore / mycotoxin

> plumes from their AC units are sometimes hardly bearable. They have

> put even more on my side recently

>

> I'm now really worried. Today I almost had a heart attack, beside

> other problems. And of course, nobody believes me - they all say

it's

> impossible.

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Jeff or Carl I'm sure can explain in other terms. The cooling coils

> are one of the worst places where mold can grow. Doesn't make any

> difference what it is feeding on.

>

> I believe the original question what type of mycotoxins can come the

> a/c. Nothing was mentioned about other peoples a/c units in the

> post.

>

> KC

That's right. I asked what types of mold can grow independently in AC

units. Are there species of mold which produce trichothecenes that can

grow in AC units even if the building itself (walls, structure etc.)

is not contaminated with any trichothecene-producing molds? My feeling

is that the answer is a big YES, but I haven't found a scientific

paper that would support this.

I am not interested at all if molds grow on dust or something else.

That's totally beside the point of my question.

The AC units are hanging outside the windows (or rather just below the

windows) of the building nearby, and the major part of every unit

seems to be placed outside. One big fan is placed in the middle of

every unit on its outer side. I couldn't find the name of the

manufacturer inscribed on them, they look quite ugly and cheap.

By the way, I walked into that building several times this summer and

inside it's not nearly as bad as one might think. I found the air in

the hallways of that building to be even cleaner than air from window

when they turn on their AC units. Perhaps these AC units are designed

in such a way that they blow all potentially contaminated air outside

only (is that even possible?). I think they were installed 2 years ago

(in 2006). During 2006 they didn't cause me any trouble, but since

this Spring it's real hell. They probably haven't cleaned them ONCE in

all these two years...

Jeff, Carl? Any suggestions? Should I try to convince the person in

charge there to clean these AC units? What's the best way to do that?

Do I have any other option if they refuse to listen?

[Guest guest]

I can't site a link, but I thought I read the stachy does not like

drafty areas, grows best in still air, but not sure of that. Other

than, I would think almost anything that filter or coil caught could

grow there. If there wasn't any stachy or fusarium I wouldn't feel

safe because aspergillus is implicated in alot of cancers I've read a

number of places.

>

>> Hello Sharon,

>

> That's interesting - I haven't read so far that stachy and fusarium

> can grow inside AC units (but I don't doubt it!).

[Guest guest]

KC,

I have never checked AC debris for mycotoxin.

Typicallly, I find Cladosporium species in portable AC units. Central

systems may also have Penicillium and or Aspergillus.

There's ususally bacteria and yeast as well.

One BIG nutrient that gets onto AC coils is corn starch from body powder. If

you have portable or central AC, or use any type of humidifier, use only

(mineral) talc body powder.

C. May, M.A., CIAQP

May Indoor Air Investigations LLC

3 Tolkien Lane

Tyngsborough, MA 01879

617-354-1055

www.mayindoorair.com

www.myhouseiskillingme.com

2b. Re: AC units and mycotoxins

Posted by: " tigerpaw2c " tigerpaw2c@... tigerpaw2c

Date: Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:36 pm ((PDT))

Does it make any difference honestly what the mold/bacteria is

feeding. Either way it is there on the coils, in a central unit, but

also will appear on a wall or window unit. Those coils trap

everything, dust, pollen, your hair, the cats, you name it. In a

central unit (residential) most of them are in the attic or crawl

space, the drip pan right below the cooling coils, not outside, is a

breeding ground and now because of this you can buy a tablet, not

sure if its chlorine to prevent this from growing. In the wall units

the mold again just like a central unit mold will grow on everything

and yes, mainly dust, on every electrial componet if it is not taken

care of properly.

Was it stachy, fusarium and other molds found in the unit itself?

Not necessarily, found inside the duct and the outside. Where it

originated from, could have been anywhere in the building since all

the air was being circulated through the conditioner.

Jeff or Carl I'm sure can explain in other terms. The cooling coils

are one of the worst places where mold can grow. Doesn't make any

difference what it is feeding on.

I believe the original question what type of mycotoxins can come the

a/c. Nothing was mentioned about other peoples a/c units in the

post.

KC