Environmental fate of macrocyclic trichothecenes

[Guest guest]

Are there any studies about the half life (and environmental fate in

general) of macrocyclic trichothecene mycotoxins if they

cross-contaminate a new, clean indoor environment which does not

support any further mold growth?

For instance, a person with clothes heavily contaminated with Stachy

toxins walks into a clean office, sits on the chairs, touches tables,

papers etc. and then leaves the place. He or she has left some amount

of toxins and / or spores, but these spores don't have good

conditions to grow.

How long will it take for that office to become completely devoid of

the contamination (even for very senstitive persons), provided it does

not support mold growth and is generally kept clean by ordinary means?

[Guest guest]

I think that even if the level is below the level of scientific

detectability, (which isn't difficult, because the level of scientific

detectability is MUCH HIGHER than the level at which you can feel the mold's

effects) there is still a physiological effect. How much it is, its hard to

say, but its there.

The practical problem for people who have already tried to clean their

belongings as much as they can is 'what it causing it and how to clean it'.

You have already made decisions to clean and keep, and as far as you can

tell, most things don't smell, but you ARE effected.

Ive taken things that I had kept out and had reactions to them and then

packed them away many times. (I don't have the energy to keep cleaning them

until I'm really, really better)

And then there are things which are simply totally problematic, like cars..

This was brought home for me a few weeks ago when cleaning our car (had been

parked in a very moldy area of our old apartment, for years) This was the

sceond major cleaning, The first time around, I was so ill at that time that

it didn't effect me anything nealy as much as the second time (which was

more thorough, Both times were outdoors, but the second time I used a much

more powerful vacumn, and washed it afterwards)

But that stuff was buried deep inside the crevices of the car and it made me

sick.

I'm sorry, avoidance fans, but throwing away things like cars is just not

possible. Spending huge amounts of money to pay untrusted 'remediators'

isn't smart either. I would rather do this stuff myself, wearing a good mask

because at least I know that it will be done instead of ignored.

[Guest guest]

>I think that even if the level is below the level of scientific

>detectability, (which isn't difficult, because the level of scientific

>detectability is MUCH HIGHER than the level at which you can feel the

>mold's effects) there is still a physiological effect. How much it

is, >its hard to say, but its there.

Quack,

I agree. But, it would be helpful if we knew at least some data on

chemical stability of Stachy toxins. For instance half life of

Satratoxin would be a useful piece of information - at any rate it

would give us an indication after what time half of the original

volume of the toxins were degraded and whether the process has at

least started. There are several places I cross contaminated some 6

months ago and the contamination there is alive and kicking! If I knew

that Satratoxin half life was, say, 3 years, that would give me at

least some idea as to when the damned thing will start weakening.

[Guest guest]

Bratislav,

You should ask Dr. Straus

His email is .Straus@...

Please let us know what his answer is

[Guest guest]

I have trouble with trusting others to do work for me also. I'm

afraid even someone with appropriate credentials will not clean things

as good as they need to be as they just are doing it to get paid.

Whereas I'm would be doing it to stop my suffering. I only wish I had

the strength to get up into my own attic (current problem area) with

appropriate gear and clean the job myself since I'm afraid noone will

take it as seriously as I need them to. I guess what it boils down to

is it isn't just cleaning up something unclean, or a job to me; it's

the direction of the rest of my life, illness and bankruptsy, or

healthy enough to function, and money enough to survive *on my own.

I'm on my own totally.

--- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...>

wrote:

>

> I think that even if the level is below the level of scientific

> detectability, (which isn't difficult, because the level of

scientific

[Guest guest]

One question is if a toxin molecule is stable in an isolated

environment. Will a certain amount degrade by itself. The other

question is if interaction with a " normal " /varied environment

containing other materials causes some degree of degradation.

As far as the avoidance thing goes, in my case it has not been a

choice. Any significant exposure leaves me permanently worse. I just

don't recover to where I was beforehand. Can't function all that well

at this point so my old stuff is little use to me.

Peace,

S

[Guest guest]

My father was exposed to mold in his car for 2 years. He was a " nonbeliever " in

everything that we discuss, on this board. No one was going to get him out of

his car which " ran so well " . After a few months of car mold exposure, he began

getting recurring lung infections. His last lung infection, put him in the

hospital, where he promptly caught a staph infection, which made him bed-bound,

which then required heparin injections to prevent blood clots from laying in

bed. The heparin injections caused massive internal bleeding, requiring 4 pints

of blood to be transfused into him. The internal bleeding irritated a nerve

plexus leading to his right leg. Thirty two days after walking into the hospital

(3 days after driving his own car), he was discharged, by the hospital, and

taken to a nursing home in an ambulette. He no longer has to worry about having

enough strength to " clean up " his moldy car, because it would be " unthinkable "

to throw it out, because he can no longer drive

and he can no longer walk and he can no longer stand up, because his legs will

not support him. Now, walk over to a mirror and look at your own legs, and do

the right thing.

[Guest guest]

Science has only studied it for up to 2 years-stable- anecdotal info

from moldies is 5 years, as I am sure you have read here somewhere. You

are screwed if someone comes into your house-which is why I am very

carefull-being a high reactor

> Are there any studies about the half life (and environmental

fate in

> general) of macrocyclic trichothecene mycotoxins if they

> cross-contaminate a new, clean indoor environment which does not

> support any further mold growth?

>

> For instance, a person with clothes heavily contaminated with Stachy

> toxins walks into a clean office, sits on the chairs, touches tables,

> papers etc. and then leaves the place. He or she has left some amount

> of toxins and / or spores, but these spores don't have good

> conditions to grow.

>

> How long will it take for that office to become completely devoid of

> the contamination (even for very senstitive persons), provided it does

> not support mold growth and is generally kept clean by ordinary means?

>

[Guest guest]

Joe, did you dad ever agree that the mold in his car made him ill? I

have had people like that in my family so sick and living in such a

moldy home.

>

[Guest guest]

My dad never agreed that mold in his car made him ill. In his case,

after 2 years of exposure to car mold, he had finally got rid of the

car,for a reason that " made sense to him " . My brother had convinced

him, to allow me to tear up the csr interior floor carpeting, to see

what was underneath it. I had begged him, every day, for 2 years, to

allow me to do that, but he would not listen to me, because I was

his " mold-crazy " son. My brother did not/does not believe that mold

existed in the car, and if it did, he doesn't believe that it could

have made anyone sick. If there is a lesson to be learned from my

experience, it might be to allow a " non-believer " to convince the mold-

sufferer to look for, or run away from, the mold environment. No one

will ever listen to us, because we are " mold-crazy " and obsessed with

the " delusion " that mold is killing the mold-sufferer. My father's

story ends with him being able to see the metal floor of the car, now

that the carpeting had been removed. He was now able to see the water

flowing into the car interior, after every rain, from the partition

separating the interior from the engine. After finding out that it woul

be very expensive to remove the entire car engine, to be able to view

the hole in the partition, to see if it was fixable, he finally decided

to get rid of the car. The reason he gave was: " I can't drive around

with my feet in a puddle of water. I could get electrocuted.

Unfortunately, his 2 years of mold exposure had already permanently

damaged his lungs, to the point that he experienced all the horrors of

my previous posting. My suggestion, to all, is find a non-believer in

mold, to convince the mold sufferer that the fastest way to get you

to " shut up " about mold, is to " humor you " , by taking the actions that

you are suggesting. It is not as important for you and I to get respect

for our views, as it is important to save someone elses life.

> >

>