Re: new member concerned

[Guest guest]

Others will answer better, but you're not crazy... nearly all of us have been

told we are. Glad you found the list - you should get some good info here. ;-)

Glad you have one doctor who takes you seriously.

Get your hands on a copy of a book called Mold Warriors which you can find at

moldwarriors.com

~Haley

fantasy_tile <fantasy_tile@...> wrote: I

just moved out of my mold infested rental. It all happened so

quickly but slowly if that makes any sence. It started with a lesion

that the doctor diagnosed in my mouth as an aesthous ulcer

(spelling?). Shortly after within two days I became very ill almost

like a reaction of some sort. It progressed with low grade fever,

diahreah,disorientation,tingling in my left heel,the worst sinus

infecton i ever have encountered,hightened sense of smell,a sore

throat that went all the way down my esophogus,one scary night of

rapid heart beat (this was really scary),these symptoms lasted for a

month. I seemed to improve but not entirely.

I have visited the doctor more in the past two months than I have in

my whole life. My wife and 3 year old son became sick as well but

not as much as i did. My son developed the worst runny nose he ever

had and fever. he went through three antibiotics. he is seemingly

back to normal now. he is not a sickly boy. my wife is the most

healthy of the three of us;vegetarian,non everything,works out four

days a week. my wife started complaining of headaches and a sore

throat, also experiencing sinus activity. we discovered that there

was mold in our air conditiong ducts after finally figuring it out.

i have never been through this before. all of my doctors think i am

crazy except for the one i am with now. when i visited the doctors

they eventually prescribed me xanex and antidepressants after

assuming that all the symptoms i was having were related to stress?

i know my body as does any other self aware person does. i told my

doctors that my anxiety was being triggered by something going wrong

in my body. try getting them to believe that!

in conclusion i am awaiting the results from an environmental

hygenist (scared). he did a thourough investigation and told me it

was the worst he had ever seen. my wife and son are both seemingly

fine now, but i am still struggling. we have been out of the house

now for about a week. i feel improvement but still dealing with my

lingering inability to sleep without constantly dreaming (no rest

without xanex). i'm scared of becoming dependant on them. my sinus

drainage that accompanied all of the things i described above has

finally seemed to slow up with the coughing. i have a metallic taste

in my mouth. my new doctor looked at my liver through ultrasound and

diagnosed me with a fatty liver? one of many tests i have been

through.my ultimate question is am i out of the woods? will i

continue to improve now that i am out of that environment. we were

exposed for about three months. my wife and son are my only

encouragement seeing them improve. is toxicisity continueous or will

i heal now that we are not exposed. should i see someone that is a

specialist with mold exposure. every time i bring up the mold to my

doctor he seems to not take much interest. will my son be ok? my

wife is the strongest of the three of us. can the exposure be

treated if this is toxicsisty? sorry that this is so long it is the

first time i have written in. please reply. thank you for listening.

i am also taking antihistimines now that is helping with the

drainage.

[Guest guest]

It sounds like you may be experiencing some yeast problems to me also.

Just my opinion but with the mouth problem and the metalic taste and

many other things yeast is a common problem with mold illness (candida

albicans) and antiobiotics. Is you tongue coated with white stuff.

Everyone is different. I became ill first in my family but we have had

several moldy places. My husband had problems later but he has

recovered better than I have. I am at home more. Welcome to the group.

>

> Others will answer better, but you're not crazy... nearly all of us

have been told we are. Glad you found the list - you should get some

good info here. ;-) Glad you have one doctor who takes you seriously.

>

[Guest guest]

,

You've learned that you are just as crazy as the rest of us. Many people in

this group, including me, were told by doctors or employers that our symptoms

were psychosomatic. Interesting that my problem was supposedly caused by stress.

I got better when I retired six years ago, but I still have problems in certain

buildings which cause no stress otherwise. So much for expert opinions.

You've also just learned a lesson that many people can be affected by

something often prescribed to control asthma and allergies- air conditioning.

While AC can be wonderful and ease problems, if improperly designed, installed,

or maintained, it can lead to severe problems like you and I have, as my problem

developed from an old deferctive AC in my workplace.

Design: the AC system should have all smooth surfaces in the air path, such as

sheet metal. Unfortunately, fiberglass ductboard is commonly used. It is

cheaper, easier to work with, a better insulator for energy efficiency, and has

better sound muffling characteristics. But it also has a much higher tendency to

grow mold, as does any fibrous insulation inside the air path. All coarse

insulation must be external.

Installation: AC units condense water from the air. This must drain completely

to avoid high moisture in the air handler during off periods when the

temperature rises to ambient. If the drain pan is not leveled properly,

considerable water can remain, leading to 90+% relative humidity in the air

handler chamber. At room temperature, that is ideal mold growing condition.

Maintainence: Filters must be high quality, not cheap fiberglass filters. They

must be changed regularly. But new filters installed in an already dirty system

have no benefit until the system is first cleaned, first with detergent water,

rinsed, then rinsed with bleach-water. Consider running the fan full time, not

cycling with the AC operation. In doing so, even with an improperly leveled

drain pan, relative humidity in the air handler and duct work will never exceed

the relative humidity in your living space. When shutting the AC down, let the

fan run for at least two hours after shut down to evaporate remaining water from

the drain pan.

Will you get better? Probably to some extent. However, if you are like me, you

may remain far more sensitized than before, such that symptoms may return after

very short exposures to similar conditions in the future. For example, I have

difficulty in many churches, as they have a tendency to run the AC only on

Sunday, and let it sit idle and humid all week. Good luck to you and your

family.

new member concerned Posted by: " fantasy_tile " fantasy_tile@... Date:

Sun Dec 2, 2007 6:50 pm ((PST)) I just moved out of my mold infested rental. It

all happened so quickly but slowly if that makes any sence. It started with a

lesion that the doctor diagnosed in my mouth as an aesthous ulcer (spelling?).

Shortly after within two days I became very ill almost like a reaction of some

sort. It progressed with low grade fever, diahreah,disorientation,tingling in my

left heel,the worst sinus infecton i ever have encountered,hightened sense of

smell,a sore throat that went all the way down my esophogus,one scary night of

rapid heart beat (this was really scary),these symptoms lasted for a month. I

seemed to improve but not entirely. I have visited the doctor more in the past

two months than I have in my whole life. My wife and 3 year old son became sick

as well but not as much as i did. My son developed the worst runny nose he ever

had and fever. he went through three antibiotics. he is seemingly back to normal

now. he is not a sickly boy. my wife is the most healthy of the three of

us;vegetarian,non everything,works out four days a week. my wife started

complaining of headaches and a sore throat, also experiencing sinus activity. we

discovered that there was mold in our air conditiong ducts after finally

figuring it out. I have never been through this before. all of my doctors think

I am crazy except for the one i am with now. when i visited the doctors they

eventually prescribed me xanex and antidepressants after assuming that all the

symptoms i was having were related to stress? I know my body as does any other

self aware person does. I told my doctors that my anxiety was being triggered by

something going wrong in my body. try getting them to believe that!

In conclusion I am awaiting the results from an environmental hygenist

(scared). he did a thourough investigation and told me it was the worst he had

ever seen. my wife and son are both seemingly fine now, but I am still

struggling. we have been out of the house now for about a week. I feel

improvement but still dealing with my lingering inability to sleep without

constantly dreaming (no rest without xanex). i'm scared of becoming dependant on

them. my sinus drainage that accompanied all of the things i described above has

finally seemed to slow up with the coughing. i have a metallic taste in my

mouth. my new doctor looked at my liver through ultrasound and diagnosed me with

a fatty liver? one of many tests i have been through.my ultimate question is am

I out of the woods? will I continue to improve now that I am out of that

environment. we were exposed for about three months. my wife and son are my only

encouragement seeing them improve. is toxicisity continueous or will I heal now

that we are not exposed. should i see someone that is a specialist with mold

exposure. every time I bring up the mold to my doctor he seems to not take much

interest. will my son be ok? my wife is the strongest of the three of us. can

the exposure be treated if this is toxicsisty? sorry that this is so long it is

the first time i have written in. please reply. thank you for listening. I am

also taking antihistimines now that is helping with the drainage.

_________________________________________________________________

Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.Download today it's FREE!

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[Guest guest]

Go to chronicnuerotoxins.com-read about Cholestrymine therapy-you would

most certainly benefit from it.It may take a year to recover.

will

> i heal now that we are not exposed. should i see someone that is a

> specialist with mold exposure. every time i bring up the mold to my

> doctor he seems to not take much interest. will my son be ok? my

> wife is the strongest of the three of us. can the exposure be

> treated if this is toxicsisty? sorry that this is so long it is the

> first time i have written in. please reply. thank you for listening.

> i am also taking antihistimines now that is helping with the

> drainage.

>

[Guest guest]

the good news is that you & your family's exposure was only 3 months.

to answer your other questions, are you out of the woods? the simple

answer is no. the mere fact that you are out of the environment

simply means your bodies are not being inundated by any more mold

toxins, but you are all left to contend with the toxins your bodies

have been harboring from your exposure. i'm so glad to hear your wife

& son have shown great improvement!!!

most people on this forum can attest to the use of Cholestyramine

taken 4x/day. if you can find a local doctor to prescribe it to you,

I wouldn't think it was necessary to see a mold specialist, unless

your symptoms increase & /or worsen. most of us have been to Dr

Ritchie Shoemaker in land. should you need more doctor names &

locations, i'm sure the others will gladly chime in as to who they

suggest.

were you prescribed an antifungal?

i highly suggest working on getting your liver up to par. ask your

doctor how to further address your fatty liver. i'm an advocate of

liver flushes/cleanses (as well as alternative medicine). if you

continue to have liver issues even after your doctor treats this

condition and you become interested in doing a liver flush/cleanse,

send me an email.

>

> I just moved out of my mold infested rental. It all happened so

> quickly but slowly if that makes any sence. It started with a lesion

> that the doctor diagnosed in my mouth as an aesthous ulcer

> (spelling?). Shortly after within two days I became very ill almost

> like a reaction of some sort. It progressed with low grade fever,

> diahreah,disorientation,tingling in my left heel,the worst sinus

> infecton i ever have encountered,hightened sense of smell,a sore

> throat that went all the way down my esophogus,one scary night of

> rapid heart beat (this was really scary),these symptoms lasted for a

> month. I seemed to improve but not entirely.

> I have visited the doctor more in the past two months than I have in

> my whole life. My wife and 3 year old son became sick as well but

> not as much as i did. My son developed the worst runny nose he ever

> had and fever. he went through three antibiotics. he is seemingly

> back to normal now. he is not a sickly boy. my wife is the most

> healthy of the three of us;vegetarian,non everything,works out four

> days a week. my wife started complaining of headaches and a sore

> throat, also experiencing sinus activity. we discovered that there

> was mold in our air conditiong ducts after finally figuring it out.

> i have never been through this before. all of my doctors think i am

> crazy except for the one i am with now. when i visited the doctors

> they eventually prescribed me xanex and antidepressants after

> assuming that all the symptoms i was having were related to stress?

> i know my body as does any other self aware person does. i told my

> doctors that my anxiety was being triggered by something going wrong

> in my body. try getting them to believe that!

[Guest guest]

3 months can do alot of damage when it's a very toxic environment.

you cant base anything on that without haveing a idea of how bad the

envitonment was. symptoms sound like it was a very toxic envitonment.

>

> the good news is that you & your family's exposure was only 3

months.

>

> to answer your other questions, are you out of the woods? the

simple

> answer is no. the mere fact that you are out of the environment

> simply means your bodies are not being inundated by any more mold

> toxins, but you are all left to contend with the toxins your bodies

> have been harboring from your exposure. i'm so glad to hear your

wife

> & son have shown great improvement!!!

>

> most people on this forum can attest to the use of Cholestyramine

> taken 4x/day. if you can find a local doctor to prescribe it to

you,

> I wouldn't think it was necessary to see a mold specialist, unless

> your symptoms increase & /or worsen. most of us have been to Dr

> Ritchie Shoemaker in land. should you need more doctor names &

> locations, i'm sure the others will gladly chime in as to who they

> suggest.

>

> were you prescribed an antifungal?

>

> i highly suggest working on getting your liver up to par. ask your

> doctor how to further address your fatty liver. i'm an advocate of

> liver flushes/cleanses (as well as alternative medicine). if you

> continue to have liver issues even after your doctor treats this

> condition and you become interested in doing a liver flush/cleanse,

> send me an email.

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> > I just moved out of my mold infested rental. It all happened so

> > quickly but slowly if that makes any sence. It started with a

lesion

> > that the doctor diagnosed in my mouth as an aesthous ulcer

> > (spelling?). Shortly after within two days I became very ill

almost

> > like a reaction of some sort. It progressed with low grade fever,

> > diahreah,disorientation,tingling in my left heel,the worst sinus

> > infecton i ever have encountered,hightened sense of smell,a sore

> > throat that went all the way down my esophogus,one scary night of

> > rapid heart beat (this was really scary),these symptoms lasted

for a

> > month. I seemed to improve but not entirely.

> > I have visited the doctor more in the past two months than I have

in

> > my whole life. My wife and 3 year old son became sick as well but

> > not as much as i did. My son developed the worst runny nose he

ever

> > had and fever. he went through three antibiotics. he is seemingly

> > back to normal now. he is not a sickly boy. my wife is the most

> > healthy of the three of us;vegetarian,non everything,works out

four

> > days a week. my wife started complaining of headaches and a sore

> > throat, also experiencing sinus activity. we discovered that

there

> > was mold in our air conditiong ducts after finally figuring it

out.

> > i have never been through this before. all of my doctors think i

am

> > crazy except for the one i am with now. when i visited the

doctors

> > they eventually prescribed me xanex and antidepressants after

> > assuming that all the symptoms i was having were related to

stress?

> > i know my body as does any other self aware person does. i told

my

> > doctors that my anxiety was being triggered by something going

wrong

> > in my body. try getting them to believe that!

>

[Guest guest]

be careful, many here have had bad reactions wuth takeing

antidepressants and other drugs like steriods. if you frll there not

helping the way they should or are causeing more paon,heart

palpatations ect. I'd think twice about takeing them.

> >

> > I just moved out of my mold infested rental. It all happened so

> > quickly but slowly if that makes any sence. It started with a

lesion

> > that the doctor diagnosed in my mouth as an aesthous ulcer

> > (spelling?). Shortly after within two days I became very ill

almost

> > like a reaction of some sort. It progressed with low grade fever,

> > diahreah,disorientation,tingling in my left heel,the worst sinus

> > infecton i ever have encountered,hightened sense of smell,a sore

> > throat that went all the way down my esophogus,one scary night of

> > rapid heart beat (this was really scary),these symptoms lasted

for a

> > month. I seemed to improve but not entirely.

> > I have visited the doctor more in the past two months than I have

in

> > my whole life. My wife and 3 year old son became sick as well but

> > not as much as i did. My son developed the worst runny nose he

ever

> > had and fever. he went through three antibiotics. he is seemingly

> > back to normal now. he is not a sickly boy. my wife is the most

> > healthy of the three of us;vegetarian,non everything,works out

four

> > days a week. my wife started complaining of headaches and a sore

> > throat, also experiencing sinus activity. we discovered that

there

> > was mold in our air conditiong ducts after finally figuring it

out.

> > i have never been through this before. all of my doctors think i

am

> > crazy except for the one i am with now. when i visited the

doctors

> > they eventually prescribed me xanex and antidepressants after

> > assuming that all the symptoms i was having were related to

stress?

> > i know my body as does any other self aware person does. i told

my

> > doctors that my anxiety was being triggered by something going

wrong

> > in my body. try getting them to believe that!

>

[Guest guest]

i mentioned how it was good news, because compared to others here

(including myself), most of us were exposed for a much longer duration

and they're now out of that toxic environment (i'm guilty of *staying*

myself thinking i was going to get better in a few days, then days led

to weeks, etc.).

with his wife & child having improved, that's wonderful news.

maybe i just see things differently--i look for the good in the bad. :-)

>

> 3 months can do alot of damage when it's a very toxic environment.

> you cant base anything on that without haveing a idea of how bad the

> envitonment was. symptoms sound like it was a very toxic envitonment.

> >

> > the good news is that you & your family's exposure was only 3

> months.

> >

> > to answer your other questions, are you out of the woods? the

> simple

> > answer is no. the mere fact that you are out of the environment

> > simply means your bodies are not being inundated by any more mold

> > toxins, but you are all left to contend with the toxins your bodies

> > have been harboring from your exposure. i'm so glad to hear your

> wife

> > & son have shown great improvement!!!

> >

> > most people on this forum can attest to the use of Cholestyramine

> > taken 4x/day. if you can find a local doctor to prescribe it to

> you,

> > I wouldn't think it was necessary to see a mold specialist, unless

> > your symptoms increase & /or worsen. most of us have been to Dr

> > Ritchie Shoemaker in land. should you need more doctor names &

> > locations, i'm sure the others will gladly chime in as to who they

> > suggest.

> >

> > were you prescribed an antifungal?

> >

> > i highly suggest working on getting your liver up to par. ask your

> > doctor how to further address your fatty liver. i'm an advocate of

> > liver flushes/cleanses (as well as alternative medicine). if you

> > continue to have liver issues even after your doctor treats this

> > condition and you become interested in doing a liver flush/cleanse,

> > send me an email.

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

i'm truly sorry you took great offense to what i said. i would hope

that this forum deems it okay for its members to disagree. 'nuff said.

> >

> > the good news is that you & your family's exposure was only 3

> months.

> >

[Guest guest]

fully recovered? i'm working on it. :-) i only have 2 " cosmetic "

symptoms left--bald patches on my scalp & one eyebrow AND for my nails

to look normal again. for nearly 10 weeks, i was in 6 hands-on web

design/programming classes (which lasted 4-5 hours each), and took

notes at the same time while doing the exercises. i'm down to 3

classes now. prior to me taking classes, i was planning a couple of

projects, which led to me taking all this extensive coursework. once

my class load tapers down even more, i'll get a part-time job, and

actually start doing my projects.

i was sick for 6.5 years. i've been feeling normal for 6 months now

(June 2007). i sleep very well, all of the 20+ symptoms i once had

(except the 2 mentioned above) are completely gone, i'm not on any

medications (i gave up on Cholestyramine in early 2005, after taking

it faithfully for months), i've only been taking 2 supplements for the

past year (digestive enzymes & multi-vitamins...oh, and i added Biotin

maybe 6 months ago), i cook & bake, i run errands, and my mental

faculties & outgoing personality are back.

have i experienced any setbacks? i've had a couple of mild respiratory

issues occur--1) when i foolishly drove out to see one of the Southern

CA wildfires, 2) when i smelled a scented version of Raid bug spray.

other than those 2 incidents, i haven't had any other problems like

before when i would have to immediately *escape* after smelling

cigarette smoke or cologne/perfume. and apparently, i absolutely have

no problems with the unscented version of Raid.

is recovery possible? yes, even with having the dreaded genotype (i've

been identified as having it).

how did i do it? i detoxed using various health modalities.

> >

> > i'm truly sorry you took great offense to what i said. i would hope

> > that this forum deems it okay for its members to disagree. 'nuff

> said.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

oh, so you didn't have any permenant organ damage? nerve damage?

brain damage,mcs,ect. thats good but dont asume that no one here was

not injuried worse than you or that your ozone treatmenr would work

for everybody, thats being kindof narrow minded dont you think?

have you had anyone try it that has had csf leaks out their ears and

dinuses from brain swelling? maybe you should consult with a

specialest as to if that might be dangerous. my grandsons hair fell

out and left latge baldspots and he suffered lung problems for a ling

rime but is doing much better, just for being in my second home

visiting off and on during the first month or so that I lived there.

> > >

> > > i'm truly sorry you took great offense to what i said. i would

hope

> > > that this forum deems it okay for its members to

disagree. 'nuff

> > said.

> > >

> > >

>

[Guest guest]

have i experienced any setbacks? i've had a couple of mild

> respiratory issues occur--1) when i foolishly drove out to see one

of the Southern CA wildfires, 2) when i smelled a scented version of

Raid bug spray. other than those 2 incidents, i haven't had any

other problems like before when i would have to immediately *escape*

after smelling cigarette smoke or cologne/perfume. and apparently, i

absolutely have no problems with the unscented version of Raid.

is recovery possible? yes, even with having the dreaded genotype

(i've

been identified as having it). how did i do it? i detoxed using

various health modalities.

==============================================================

Important talking points;

1. You spoke about the need to 'escape' irritants and poisons as

guiding your opinions as to whether those forms of exposures were a

hazard to you ('having a problem with them'). A poison remains a

poison whether or not you are aware of it being a hazard and whether

or not you have a particular genotype. The form of the damage done

to you may vary but awareness of it is superflous.

Raid is a pyrethroid pesticide. If your blood brain barrier has

been breached or you are sufficiently exposed, it will interfere

with the sodium ion channels of your central nervous system (brain

cells) causing hyperactivation of the cells and damage you.

Further, the synergist chemical (PBO) will interfere with your detox

system, leaving you open to a cascade of other potential responses,

again, with or without your knowledge. It is against the law to say

a pesticide is safe, even when used as directed indicating that the

EPA admits to its harmful nature for all.

2. You referred to reacting to the fragranced version of Raid. If

you are having overt responses to fragrance chemicals and/or their

interaction with pesticides, not to mention your reaction to

visiting the wildfires area, take it as an indication that you have

a reactive airway and consider proactive avoidance measures

regarding all airway irritants. A significant loss of airway

capacity is necessary for awareness of that reduction. But it

happens prior to awareness as well.

3. Detox protocols assume your personal ability to eliminate toxic

substances from your body is relatively intact. Remember that

poisons 'poison' as they leave the body, just as they do when

entering it. This is why EI physicians recommend avoiding weight

loss (releasing stored toxins) while fragile from exposures. A lack

of protective enzymes to process out metabolites will mean purposely

ejecting them from your cells via chelation or other detox will

again pit them against your system. Many of us have to rely upon

natural detox from avoidance alone for that reason.

4. Evidence of permanent damage has to be sought, it won't

necessarily be self evident. Dr. Kaye Kilburn found evidence that

approximately 70 percent of so called 'normal' individuals are

showing signs of premature central nervous system damage from day to

day exposures (based upon testing of some four thousand normals

versus asthmatic on measures of CNS functions such as memory,

reasoning etc.). You can be tested for assurances you haven't lost

function but ought to consider your prior impairment as a warning

that you will be susceptible to future insult to your system. He

published a paperback called 'endangered brains' which may be of use

to many of us. I intend to order it.

It is wonderful when we recover partial or full function. That is

the goal. However, it is also essential to remember that exposures

are ubiquitous and working upon already weak areas. Re-injury is

likely without some degree of vigilance. Also, by the time you

notice an exposure, you have already been harmed by it since it is

utilizing your personal protective mechanisms for defense against it

instead of the normal, anti-aging functions they were designed to

do.

Don't assume any poison is benign and keep your environment as free

as possible from them.

Shouldn't everyone? Just common sense.

Barb Rubin

[Guest guest]

i assume nothing. and as far as Ozone/Oxygen Therapy, i'm merely

saying it worked for me to eliminate 98% of my symptoms. and in all

honesty, because i have seen its effects, it would help detox people's

bodies.

as most of us already know, there are only a handful of doctors (more

or less) in this country who understand our plight, but they too can

only offer certain medications to help. before i went to Dr

Shoemaker, i had already gone to doctors who worked for the #6 Best

Hospital in the country at the time and also doctors who went to the

top medical schools or were featured in the local news as having dealt

with mold patients. well, needless to say, i grew tired of going to

doctor after doctor, when they couldn't offer me any long-lasting

relief. so i became proactive in my quest to find what would/could

help--—i researched and tried lots of different things. narrow-minded

is not looking at other possible alternatives to regain your life back

and waiting for someone in the medical field to hopefully come up with

a cure. well, call me impatient, but feeling horrible every

day...feeling like a zombie...just isn't my cup of tea.

i've been posting here on & off since 2004 and even in my posts, i've

shared all the things i was trying or have tried (like supplements &

modalities such as Far Infrared Sauna, coffee enemas, RIFE, BioSET,

acupuncture, Chinese Medicine, footbaths, Light Beam Generator, etc).

some years later & having spent a small fortune, i can look back now

and say which modalities & supplements worked & which ones weren't

worth it.

by the way, i was already doing Ozone Therapy (excluding the Sauna,

which IS one of the key protocols) and liver flushes before my

appointment with Dr Shoemaker in late 2004. he inquired about my

liver flush/cleanse protocol and even wrote down the website i

mentioned as being the best one. at one point during our discussion,

Shoemarker remarked, " You're very intelligent, aren't you? " and after

disclosing my experiences with particular modalities especially

Ozone/Oxygen Therapy, he remarked " Doctors should be talking to you " .

and as much as i really hate tooting my own horn, he's right. i've

had to do extensive research & be my own guinea-pig. i fought hard to

regain my well-being and will continue to offer hope to anyone who

keeps an open mind. Ozone/Oxygen Therapy is a viable and powerful

alternative for detoxing toxins from the body.

as a side note, i am in contact with someone whose wife & him were

exposed to mold. i have shared all my tried & true protocols. they

are both still in the midst of detoxing (they both have different

symptoms) & have been doing majority of the protocols i've suggested.

last month (hmm, i guess it was maybe 3 weeks ago), when I spoke with

him, he mentioned that a few days prior he actually " felt normal " for

a couple of hours. earlier this week when i spoke with him, he said

he felt good for most of the day. if that's not a good sign, then I

don't know what is!!!

do i have any damage? recently, i've had routine bloodwork done

(i.e. glucose, cholesterol, thyroid, CBC)-—results were " normal " and

this new doctor (i'm on the west coast now, all the doctors who seen

me from 2001-2005 are on the east coast) who saw me said i'm actually

in good shape considering what i had been through (i had relayed my

background with mold exposure). as wonderful as i feel for the past 6

months, getting the specialized bloodwork done is not so much a

priority but it is on my " to do " list (likely to happen when i'm

employed). if the bald patches on my scalp don't ever grow back (it's

been a few years now), then i'll chalk that up to permanent damage.

i'm taking Biotin and occasionally rubbing fresh garlic on the

affected areas. i've tried rubbing a concoction of essential oils

(e.g. Jojoba, Lavender, Neroli, incense & couple other oils), but

probably didn't give it a long enough chance to see if it would help.

when my class load decreases, i'm sure i'll try more things or at

least be more diligent with what i try to see if my hair will grow

back. i'm still on a maintenance protocol with Ozone Therapy (i

go in the sauna once a week or bi-weekly & usually do my ear

insufflation shortly after i get out of the sauna). i post on this

forum to offer my knowledge. if what i'm saying doesn't seem at all

beneficial to you, then it's well in your prerogative to disregard.

> >

> > fully recovered? i'm working on it. :-) i only have 2 " cosmetic "

> > symptoms left--bald patches on my scalp & one eyebrow AND for my

> nails

> > to look normal again. for nearly 10 weeks, i was in 6 hands-on web

> > design/programming classes (which lasted 4-5 hours each), and took

> > notes at the same time while doing the exercises. i'm down to 3

> > classes now. prior to me taking classes, i was planning a couple of

> > projects, which led to me taking all this extensive coursework.

> once

> > my class load tapers down even more, i'll get a part-time job, and

> > actually start doing my projects.

> >

> > i was sick for 6.5 years. i've been feeling normal for 6 months now

> > (June 2007). i sleep very well, all of the 20+ symptoms i once had

> > (except the 2 mentioned above) are completely gone, i'm not on any

> > medications (i gave up on Cholestyramine in early 2005, after taking

> > it faithfully for months), i've only been taking 2 supplements for

> the

> > past year (digestive enzymes & multi-vitamins...oh, and i added

> Biotin

> > maybe 6 months ago), i cook & bake, i run errands, and my mental

> > faculties & outgoing personality are back.

> >

> > have i experienced any setbacks? i've had a couple of mild

> respiratory

> > issues occur--1) when i foolishly drove out to see one of the

> Southern

> > CA wildfires, 2) when i smelled a scented version of Raid bug spray.

> > other than those 2 incidents, i haven't had any other problems like

> > before when i would have to immediately *escape* after smelling

> > cigarette smoke or cologne/perfume. and apparently, i absolutely

> have

> > no problems with the unscented version of Raid.

> >

> > is recovery possible? yes, even with having the dreaded genotype

> (i've

> > been identified as having it).

> >

> > how did i do it? i detoxed using various health modalities.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

i attribute my need to immediately *escape* from cigarette smoke,

cologne & perfume during the height of my illness (a few years ago) as

my reactivity due to " toxin overload " .

back in July, i was exposed to cigarette smoke over a 2-day period and

had no ill effects during & even after. i'm guessing it was back in

May of this year where a worker of a home improvement store reeked of

cologne and my friend & i actually had a conversation with this

employee for a good 30 minutes while my friend placed a special order.

what do i attribute as to the difference from then (immediately

escaping) & now (no escaping & no problems)? having cleaned out my

liver by doing liver flushes/cleanses for and having heavily detoxed

using various health modalities.

my Raid bug spray experience happened just a few months ago. someone

i live with sprayed the scented version without my knowledge, and

immediately after smelling it, i had to leave the area for a few

minutes. about a week later, i came across some ants again &

remembering that i had an unscented version of Raid, i sprayed the

area. i sprayed, even stuck around a few minutes to make sure all the

ants were dead. no ill effects.

everyone on this earth is continuously being exposed to toxins every

day--it's in the air we breathe, the food we eat, the chemicals in our

beauty products. and because i know how chronically ill i was, i'm

not deluded in thinking my body cannot succumb again. i still do

maintenance with my health protocols. with the exception of driving

out to see a wildfire, i don't purposefully put myself in situations

where my health could possibly deteriorate like it did.

i'm doing extremely well. except for not being employed (but

attending classes & planning projects i'm going to undertake in the

next few months), my life is fairly normal. new people i meet and

share that i was sick from mold for 6.5 years & only recently

recovered (June 2007) are fairly surprised. my goal is to get

specialized bloodwork, but compared to how i was a few years ago

(heck, even last year), it's really not a pressing matter.

>

> have i experienced any setbacks? i've had a couple of mild

> > respiratory issues occur--1) when i foolishly drove out to see one

> of the Southern CA wildfires, 2) when i smelled a scented version of

> Raid bug spray. other than those 2 incidents, i haven't had any

> other problems like before when i would have to immediately *escape*

> after smelling cigarette smoke or cologne/perfume. and apparently, i

> absolutely have no problems with the unscented version of Raid.

> is recovery possible? yes, even with having the dreaded genotype

> (i've

> been identified as having it). how did i do it? i detoxed using

> various health modalities.

> ==============================================================

>

> Important talking points;

>

> 1. You spoke about the need to 'escape' irritants and poisons as

> guiding your opinions as to whether those forms of exposures were a

> hazard to you ('having a problem with them'). A poison remains a

> poison whether or not you are aware of it being a hazard and whether

> or not you have a particular genotype. The form of the damage done

> to you may vary but awareness of it is superflous.

>

> Raid is a pyrethroid pesticide. If your blood brain barrier has

> been breached or you are sufficiently exposed, it will interfere

> with the sodium ion channels of your central nervous system (brain

> cells) causing hyperactivation of the cells and damage you.

> Further, the synergist chemical (PBO) will interfere with your detox

> system, leaving you open to a cascade of other potential responses,

> again, with or without your knowledge. It is against the law to say

> a pesticide is safe, even when used as directed indicating that the

> EPA admits to its harmful nature for all.

>

> 2. You referred to reacting to the fragranced version of Raid. If

> you are having overt responses to fragrance chemicals and/or their

> interaction with pesticides, not to mention your reaction to

> visiting the wildfires area, take it as an indication that you have

> a reactive airway and consider proactive avoidance measures

> regarding all airway irritants. A significant loss of airway

> capacity is necessary for awareness of that reduction. But it

> happens prior to awareness as well.

>

> 3. Detox protocols assume your personal ability to eliminate toxic

> substances from your body is relatively intact. Remember that

> poisons 'poison' as they leave the body, just as they do when

> entering it. This is why EI physicians recommend avoiding weight

> loss (releasing stored toxins) while fragile from exposures. A lack

> of protective enzymes to process out metabolites will mean purposely

> ejecting them from your cells via chelation or other detox will

> again pit them against your system. Many of us have to rely upon

> natural detox from avoidance alone for that reason.

>

> 4. Evidence of permanent damage has to be sought, it won't

> necessarily be self evident. Dr. Kaye Kilburn found evidence that

> approximately 70 percent of so called 'normal' individuals are

> showing signs of premature central nervous system damage from day to

> day exposures (based upon testing of some four thousand normals

> versus asthmatic on measures of CNS functions such as memory,

> reasoning etc.). You can be tested for assurances you haven't lost

> function but ought to consider your prior impairment as a warning

> that you will be susceptible to future insult to your system. He

> published a paperback called 'endangered brains' which may be of use

> to many of us. I intend to order it.

>

> It is wonderful when we recover partial or full function. That is

> the goal. However, it is also essential to remember that exposures

> are ubiquitous and working upon already weak areas. Re-injury is

> likely without some degree of vigilance. Also, by the time you

> notice an exposure, you have already been harmed by it since it is

> utilizing your personal protective mechanisms for defense against it

> instead of the normal, anti-aging functions they were designed to

> do.

>

> Don't assume any poison is benign and keep your environment as free

> as possible from them.

>

> Shouldn't everyone? Just common sense.

>

> Barb Rubin

[Guest guest]

I am pleased for your recovery but because this list is about sick

buildings, I feel the need to point out that your contamination of

your living place with repeated (and unecessary) use of RAID

pesticides will render that space uninhabitable for many people and

a danger to all.

I hope that all people on this list, sick and/or in various stages

of recovery will value the totality of issues discussed here with

regard to the poisoning of our bodies and indoor spaces. Pesticides

and gas fuels are the number one and two causes of environmental

illness according to Bill Rae of the Dallas center. I am sure that

mold is a close third.

Pesticides (which includes all herbicides and biocides) is a

considerable cause of poisoning to people during mold remediation.

I know children currently on a terminal track from it, as if the

mold weren't bad enough. Thanks to pesticides, I have a master's

degree but can't make change at the store. This note will take a

half hour to write.

Just something for consideration if we are going to work towards

healthy indoor spaces for all of us. There are so few out there as

we see, WHO noting that wood burning is a major cause of mortality

in the third world. Yet wood stoves and fireplaces are chic in this

country. We need to make policies and laws reflective of

biochemistry rather than convenience and how we feel in the moment.

Barb Rubin

==================================================

--- In , " xhannahx24 " <xhannahx24@...>

wrote:

>

> my Raid bug spray experience happened just a few months ago.

someone

> i live with sprayed the scented version without my knowledge, and

> immediately after smelling it, i had to leave the area for a few

> minutes. about a week later, i came across some ants again &

> remembering that i had an unscented version of Raid, i sprayed the

> area. i sprayed, even stuck around a few minutes to make sure all

the ants were dead. no ill effects.

==========================================================> >

> > Don't assume any poison is benign and keep your environment as

free as possible from them. Shouldn't everyone? Just common sense.

> >

> > Barb Rubin

>