Re: another question: Mental retardation label-Not recommended

[Guest guest]

I hate to say this, but I think IQ tests are very innacurate for special

needs individuals. For example, one of my sons had several IQ tests

done by the school districts, and even the same IQ test. The first one

done was at age 3, which showed and IQ of 74. The second done years

later was 91, and the third one was done some years later and showed

above average, over 100. He was verbal for all the testing. He was NOT

given any special education that would increase his IQ. IQ's are not

suppose to change like that. Also, my other children have had IQ tests

which I don't feel are accurate. I think that when children have ADD or

ADHD, they especially have innacurate IQ test results. But, anyhow,

just sharing that I don't feel tests like the Wechsler are accurate for

special needs individuals. I think such individuals will test much

lower. All of my children get great grades on tests which shows that

they do have above average IQs, which I believed all along even after

the low IQ test results were shown to me. I think that the current IQ

tests reflect an IQ, given a natural surrounding, but do not reflect an

IQ that would be demonstrated with more time, less distractions,

compensating supports, etc. I think that with non-special needs

children, more time, less distractions, compensating supports, etc.

would have much less impact on improving their IQ testing. So, just

saying that I have seen special needs kids test much lower than their

abilities reflected when compensating for their issues. So, lower IQ

results should not reflect lower ability, but higher needs to be

successful.

I have also seen the reverse. For example, I have seen children test

high in scholastic tests, but not able to handle the social aspects,

which resulted in a false sense of ability. So, IQ tests are lacking at

this time, but they never seemed to effect my children's education. For

my children, having loving teachers or having non-loving teachers is

what made the difference, not so much what the IEP said. Unfortunately,

non-loving teachers don't appear to know that they are harming the

children with their shaping into " under-success. " So, for me, changing

teachers or schools always gained dramatic results for my children.

Getting the teachers to change, never worked, but I was able to show

facts to get my children teacher or school changes. There will always

be loving individuals as part of the ARD or school administration, so

seek them out and lean on them for what to do. They are easy to find

because they have the optimistic, work-with-you attitude; whereas, the

non-loving ones have the pessimistic, can't-be-done attitude.

I remember one time, I was arguing with a principal, who had adopted an

assistant principals' negative view of my child's needs. There was a

diagnostician in the room, and I asked her what her opinion was. She

told the truth, which didn't match the principal's. The principal then

lightened up. So, if I had never asked the diagnostician to relay her

opinion, then I would have never gotten my desires for my child met.

Get the loving, knowledgeable folks to speak up. They will need

prompting, but they will be honest.

Love and prayers,

Heidi N

Prime example would be Carly fleischman who everyone considered to be

severely MR. She is high needs not mentally incapable. Thousands of these

people are slipping through the cracks. Agree to AU testing just refuse iq.

Won't that be sufficient? Once a child can communicate effectively then the

iq test will be valid.

[Guest guest]

Well, this psychologist (LSSP) they are using is an ancient man -- either that or he has just never taken care of himself.  He may be my age, but if so, I look twenty years younger.  It was like he wa their to psychoanalyze me.   " Well, just what do you think a FAPE is? "

I told him that a FAPE is just what the IDEA says it is - that it should be designed to move a child forward and prepare them for post-secondary education, employment, and independent living.  And their attitude is like they think my son is incapable of any of these.  It is hard to keep the emotions out of it.

Even though we are not supposed to talk about the past, I found out that a particular teacher violated HIPPA by discussing the situation with another parent!  She told the parent that my child was " retarded and I just could not accept it - that my child just couldn't do his work so what was she supposed to do?  She discussed this after we reached agreement on the past matter for a period of eighteen months.  What freaking business does she have discussing my child with any other parent?

So now, it seems that that is what I supposed this lawyer has advised - it is quite evident that they had this game plan from the moment of the first meeting (they met in a  pre-meeting without us allowed in the room). So it is evident to us that since they have only two possible placements available ( fifth grade inclusion or self-contained) and fifth grade is wholly inappropriate, that they must find a way to say he is ID so they can call self-contained an appropriate placement.

Trina, as you know, we use the same fabulous tutor, and she was with us at the meetings and appalled by how they treated us.  They also asked us to bring our son's work he had done over the past eighteen months, so we did.  We brought two big notebooks worth.  I kept very good records, and the standardized testing bore out that my son jumped from the 0.2 percentile in math when he was based on a grade norm of third grade to the 35% third grade norm.  Well then they didn't think that was right and that we should have fifth grade normed it.  Even at fifth grade norm, he still made considerable progress.  But norming children to a grade level they have never been exposed to is highly unfair.  especially in considering that districts are often the ones who allow these children to wind up so far behind.  should we punch them further by raising the bar by which they are measure before we catch them up?

They even insinuated at the meeting that my son does not have autism.  Trina you said autism doesn't go away, and I do think it is something that has to be addressed, but with autism, unlike other disabilities, many of these children can improve a great deal, and I also know of several who lost the diagnosis.

When my son was first tested by the district at age three.  I know it was bad.  He was non-verbal and basically non-responsive and  at times seemingly catatonic.  Now, through interventions and the hard work of his parents and bio med, he is very verbal and high functioning, but they still want to treat him like he made no progress at all.

It is easy to say let them take you to DP or you take them to DP, but the hard reality is they have tax payer money to do it with, and parents have limited resources to pay lawyers and expert witnesses.  But I have no doubt as to which side of the argument God comes down on.

Loius, I know they were supposed to " consider " the outside testing, but they refused to even consider it and said they would only consider their own.As horrible as it is to believe, this is just a case of a district wanting to use an innocent child in order to punish parents for having the audacity to advocate for their child.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,Even though a student "meets" a disability criteria, the ARD Committee (of which you are a member) may decide not to grant eligibility for special education services. In order to meet the ID criteria, the individual must show deficits in cognitive ability (IQ) AND in adaptive behaviors (functional skills) such as self help skills, maneuvering the home and community environments, communication, self-regulation, etc,. Most likely the term "Functionally MR" in you case may refer to the fact that in some behavioral areas he "functions" within the ID level. These behaviors, apparently, seriously impact his cognitive ability. I don't know your son's age and I assume this was an initial evaluation. The ARD decision to wait-intervene-monitor progress cycle was appropriate at this time. Services in these behavior functioning areas must be provided, so that they improve and don't interfere as much with his intellectual functioning in "next round of testing" Please make certain that specific IEPs were developed in these areas of deficient behavior functioning skills. If they weren't, please request an ARD to develop them. Conducting a Functional Behavioral Assessment (FBA) to develop a Behavior Intervention Plan (BIP), if it was not done as part of this evaluation, would identify the areas needed to be addressed. The BIP will create goals and recommend interventions. It appears that, as you said, they did a very thorough evaluation, hopefully, the current assessment will stand up to the proposed DSM-5 changes to the criteria for AU.Loretta Loretta Zayas-Revai,Advovate & MediatorOffice: Fax: Mobile/Text: (281) 857-1080loretta@...www.LZREAM.org"The way you do anything is the way you do everything!"Sent from my iPhone4

Again, if the child is AU, you do not need the MR OR ID label and that cannot be a reason to deny you services. Reject the label.

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> >> From: concernedformycountry <julie74601@>

> >> Subject: another question: Mental retardation

> label

> >> To: Texas-Autism-Advocacy

> >> Date: Sunday, August 5, 2012, 10:13 PM

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> >> When my son went to the school's preschool program they had him labeled

> mental retardation-nc. We pulled him out the 2nd year he would have been in

> and did our own therapy program for awhile but plan on putting him back in

> this year.I homeschool 4 other kids and don't think I can do another year

> with him and my 3yo with possible autism. It was just too much. Anyways, the

> doctor he saw that diagnosed him with autism said I need to have the school

> remove the mental retardation and put autism in its place. How would I go

> about doing that? Does autism change the services he gets or is it the same

> regardless of the label? Some of you wrote that the school took away your

> diagnosis of Autism. What did you do? How can they take away a diagnosis

> given to a child by a licensed physician? Now, I'm starting to get cold feet

> about public school.

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[Guest guest]

My son has received several IQ tests over the years, which have all shown scatter skills -- high is some areas and low in others and the scores range in the borderline range.The most recent showed considerable raise in scores in his areas of strength.  I do not consider this an initial eval as they had 7.5 years to show they could do a job they promised they could do but failed in it.  In his current  placement, he showed progress across the board, especially in the area of academics.  A school environment will affect his health adversely.  I do not want to go back to the days of him having a fever and infection every two weeks.  His current placement meets this unique need.  I would not trust them to provide speech or OT as these are OSFA and not effective and producing sustainable progress. They do not have an academic environment that will work for him.  In a fifth grade class he will be lost ( yes, I know, they supposedly have to allow him to follow the IEP level), but wake up people -- they don't do that.  Start monitoring whether these kids IEP's are implemented as written and you will find the vast majority in the state of Texas don't do it.  They will put the child in a fifth grade class and then it is sink or swim.    As rampant as autism is today, why are schools required to publish and make available to the public their dyslexia plans but none are required to have an autism plan?????

I was a teacher for fifteen years.  I know what teachers get told as they are handed the IEP or in my day it was a content mastery " Just teach what you want and don't fail them. " It's BS.

In 1971 United States Supreme Court decision Griggs v. Duke Power Co., have prevented American employers from using cognitive ability tests as a controlling factor in selecting employees where (1) the use of the test would have a disparate impact on hiring by race and (2) where the test is not shown to be directly relevant to the job or class of jobs at issue. Instead, where there is not direct relevance to the job or class of jobs.

In the educational context, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals interpreted similar state and federal statutes to require that IQ Tests not be used in a manner that was determinate of tracking students into classes designed for the mentally retarded. Larry P. v. Riles, 793 F.2d 969 (9th Cir. 1984).

But this is exactly what is happening now.  For now the discrimination is aimed at children with autism, and schools are hard pressed as it is expensive to provide a FAPE to these children and they want to avoid that expense. It is an easy out for them to get these kids labeled ID so they can coral them into SC classes and defend against NCLB provisions based on that. The 9th Circuit court has ruled against this practice of using IQ against these children but it does not stop them from trying to do it.  

They know my son.  They have tested  him many times before.  Now they are up against a wall as their position is he can't learn and we should be satisfied with over glorified baby sitting in a self-contained and I should be ever so thankful to just have him locked in a self contained room in order to get a break. But we have proved he can make significant progress with the right methods.  Schools do not like being proved wrong, and they do like admitting that parents may be just as knowledgeable and even more knowledgeable, especially in the area of autism education.  When people begin putting the needs of the child ahead of the need to be in power or in control and ahead of the need to detract any power form the parents as equal partners in the process -- then we might get somewhere - ahead of the need to make money the primary consideration. So long as parents have to keep challenging through DP for every possible hope of a FAPE for their children, change will be slow in coming.

I have a very hard time seeing the money that goes into football programs that rarely yield a pro ball player and almost no money being generated to improve special ed programs.

I know at one school board meeting it took them all of five minutes to vote for an in excess of $30,000 on new ag equipment to go with the new ag building they asked the taxpayers to pay for, but they don't want to pay a nickel for a compensatory ed program that teaches an autistic child to read, write, and spell well enough to get and keep a job someday?

[Guest guest]

There are certainly deep differences when it comes to our loved ones being tested and we all know them - most depend on the time of day, the mood they are in, the attitude of the tester, if our child has any patience that day, - the list goes on and on. My son has been tested at least four times in the last 3 years..................only to have different results every time. And lets not forget the one elephant in the room that has many of us so stressed and heartbroken.........infortunately if you are not rich - your loved one will need every single one of the support systems that the state provides according to that testing - no matter how independant they may become. Most of us are have been facing this for years, are facing it now and will be in the very near future.

Subject: Re: another question: Mental retardation label-Not recommendedTo: "Texas-Autism-Advocacy " <Texas-Autism-Advocacy >Date: Saturday, August 11, 2012, 4:56 PM

IQ tests are notoriously inaccurate for individuals with ASDs. My son was given a KABC (verbal IQ test) and a Leiter -R (nonverbal IQ test) within about 8 months if each other when he was 4 years old. He scored in the mid-50's on the verbal test but scored 127 on the non-verbal IQ test...obviously this was just a bit discrepant!nnaSent from my iPhone

[Guest guest]

Yes Amy, you are so sadly right!  nna, that is exactly what I am up against -- the wish for them to use a non-verbal IQ test such as Leiter or Raven's Matrices, but they insist on the Weschler's, which is akin to testing a blind person with a visual test or a deaf person with an auditory test.  Wescler's relies heavily on communication and social skills -- and of course that is the one they insist upon.  They are so blatantly setting him up for failure.  I think the Weschler's is the only test the district owns and they don't want to have to buy another one, and certainly not one that would be fair to children with autism.

Plus, on the document they want us to sign giving permission, they put more than seventy possible tests on there. We are going to file a FOIA to be told which of these tests they actually own. they also make it look like that would give them permission to test indefinitely.    How much time do I give them to test him?  I know they have sixty days from our signature to get it done, but then how long are they allowed to take?  I have visoins of them dragging it our so that they don't have to offer an IEP for as long as possible. I mean is there a limit to the amount of time it takes to complete an FIE?

Thanks.

[Guest guest]

I know I've been looking at this kind of financial support recently. But, Matt wants to go to college, they won't allow him to come with an aide if he's MR. Perhaps he could get his degree and then take their verbal IQ test? hahaha. This is where we are seriously failing our population. Many many are not ID or MR. It doesn't mean they don't need support, they do! But why call a apple an orange if the apple would be suppressed to be an orange? What if that apple fails to grow thinking it's an orange? Will the world no longer have very sweet apples? What if my apple wants to become a tree and give the world his fruit? What then? 

The point is we need a different approach from support services for persons with Autism. We need a different IQ test. We need sub groups of Autism qualifying for different stages of support. There are so many of us coming surely we can do a better job. There are not enough group homes to house everyone and there are no jobs to do. Great minds will go to waste, they won't mind so much, they are used to being ignored and happy in their own thoughts, but the world has much to gain. We as a society must find a way for them to make money....bottom line they will bankrupt the states if they all are MR due to some antiquated IQ test developed back when Autism was one in 10,000 and nobody gave it much thought. 

Trina 

 

There are certainly deep differences when it comes to our loved ones being tested and we all know them - most depend on the time of day, the mood they are in, the attitude of the tester, if our child has any patience  that day, - the list goes on and on.  My son has been tested at least four times in the last 3 years..................only to have different results every time.  And lets not forget the one elephant in the room that has many of us so stressed and heartbroken.........infortunately if you are not rich - your loved one will need every single one of the support systems that  the state provides according to that testing - no matter how independant they may become. Most of us are have been facing this for years, are facing it now and will be in the very near future.    

Subject: Re: another question: Mental retardation label-Not recommended

To: " Texas-Autism-Advocacy " <Texas-Autism-Advocacy >

Date: Saturday, August 11, 2012, 4:56 PM

 

IQ tests are notoriously inaccurate for individuals with ASDs. My son was given a KABC (verbal IQ test) and a Leiter -R (nonverbal IQ test) within about 8 months if each other when he was 4 years old. He scored in the mid-50's on the verbal test but scored 127 on the non-verbal IQ test...obviously this was just a bit discrepant!

nnaSent from my iPhone