Re: Can someone assist me with the work I am doing?

[Guest guest]

Dear Caren,

I feel touched by your request. Thank you for asking for support in

what must be a very tough time...

And I hear a lot of love coming from you.

I hear you want to honor her, despite of all the confusion you are

experiencing.

And that you want to know the truth.

I'd love to assist you with the work you are doing. You sound very

brave.

Love,

Am 13.09.2007 um 17:17 schrieb adoptivemomx2:

> Hello everyone,

>

> I am glad I found this group and I am glad I found Byron . I

> am very new at this and was wondering if someone could assist me

> with the place where I am stuck.

>

> In February, my identical twin sister, Sharon, committed suicide. I

> have a lot of The Work to do surrounding this but I have worked

> through " Sharon shouldn't have killed herself. " I've come to see

> that she should have killed herself because that is reality, that is

> what happened.

> I see that her sacrifice has benefitted me becuause

> it has led me to this self-examination which has brought me a

> measure of peace.

>

> But what then comes up is a guilty feeling because her death is

> benefitting me. I question why she couldn't have found " The Work "

> before she killed herself because then she may not have done it.

> This is linked into the fact that she was extremely unhappy and

> hopeless. How do I know this? Happy, hopeful people don't murder

> themselves. I am unable to find beauty in this.

>

> I can determine that this thought is not useful to me and drop it

> but then it creeps back into my head. I am not sure what to do.

>

> Thank you in advance for your help.

>

> Kindly,

> Caren

[Guest guest]

Dear Caren,

> Hello everyone,

>

> I am glad I found this group and I am glad I found Byron .

Welcome!

> I am very new at this and was wondering if someone could assist me

> with the place where I am stuck.

>

> In February, my identical twin sister, Sharon, committed suicide. I

> have a lot of The Work to do surrounding this but I have worked

> through " Sharon shouldn't have killed herself. " I've come to see

> that she should have killed herself because that is reality, that is

> what happened.

Yes, it is.

Not accepting that is hard.

Eventually it is even impossible.

> I see that her sacrifice has benefitted me becuause

> it has led me to this self-examination which has brought me a

> measure of peace.

Well, she probably did it because it was the only way she knew to get

some peace.

That's why I would do it. To stop my thoughts.

There's something about sacrifice... you know what it's like to

sacrifice something. You've been there, haven't you?

It is like giving something you hold dear and believing that you

won't ever get it back. Something you think you need.

And believing that you get something else in return. Something that

is more valuable to you. But without really being convinced that you

can do without the other.

What your sister gave... seems to be something irreversibly lost.

She gave her life.

Who is sacrificing yours?

> But what then comes up is a guilty feeling because her death is

> benefitting me.

What was it that you said, did or thought, that pushed her to do it?

Can you find something?

> I question why she couldn't have found " The Work "

> before she killed herself because then she may not have done it.

That's a good one.

> This is linked into the fact that she was extremely unhappy and

> hopeless.

> How do I know this?

Yes, what is your proof? Before we can examine it, we must look at

it. Best to write it down, so that we don't forget what it is we are

examining. And to have something to get back to, if mind wanders off.

> Happy, hopeful people don't murder themselves.

This is a fact. Something you know.

Sounds like a religion to me.

You might have all evidence that that one is true.

And who would you be without it, in this moment?

Who would you be living your life, what would your life look like, if

you could never believe it again.

> I am unable to find beauty in this.

As you know, that's because you argue with it.

Who would you be, thinking of your sister, if you could not think

that she was unhappy and hopeless?

How would you see her?

How would you remember her, if you could never ever believe again

that she had one single moment in her life in which she was not

totally happy?

How would that feel?

> I can determine that this thought

which one, exactly?

> is not useful to me and drop it

> but then it creeps back into my head.

The thought comes to pass, not to stay. When it comes, and you try to

push it away, you'll notice some kind of pain.

That's a gentle reminder that your work is not yet done.

> I am not sure what to do.

Is that true? ;-)

When was it, ever? Can you find that place?

> Thank you in advance for your help.

Thank you again for asking.

> Kindly,

> Caren

Love,

[Guest guest]

Hi Caren

I¹ve put a couple of questions into your email, just as they came up in my

mind as I was reading your post. Please feel free to disregard anything not

helpful to you.

Love

>

> Hello everyone,

>

> I am glad I found this group and I am glad I found Byron . I

> am very new at this and was wondering if someone could assist me

> with the place where I am stuck.

>

> In February, my identical twin sister, Sharon, committed suicide. I

> have a lot of The Work to do surrounding this but I have worked

> through " Sharon shouldn't have killed herself. " I've come to see

> that she should have killed herself because that is reality, that is

> what happened. I see that her sacrifice has benefitted me becuause

> it has led me to this self-examination which has brought me a

> measure of peace.

>

> ***Question: is it true that it was a sacrifice? Did she have a free choice

> in the matter? Did she do it for you?

>

> But what then comes up is a guilty feeling because her death is

> benefitting me. I question why she couldn't have found " The Work "

> before she killed herself because then she may not have done it.

> This is linked into the fact that she was extremely unhappy and

> hopeless. How do I know this? Happy, hopeful people don't murder

> themselves. I am unable to find beauty in this.

>

> ***Question: Is it true that her death is benefiting you? Or is it as true

> that your own explorations are benefiting you? Can you know you would not

> have found the Work via another catalyst? I also wonder whether there is an

> underlying thought that positive things should not come from negative, to

> phrase it crudely?

>

> I can determine that this thought is not useful to me and drop it

> but then it creeps back into my head. I am not sure what to do.

>

> *** It¹s great that you can make that determination. And I know there are

> many very wise people on this list who may be able to assist.

>

> Thank you in advance for your help.

>

> Kindly,

> Caren

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Caren,

Thanks for your courage and committment to the work. I have found

that these type of life events are the most fruitful for doing the

work on, and I support you in pursuing the mind as it spins its

stories about what should, could, and might have been.

I have also experienced the sudden, unexpected death of a family

member in recent years, as well as the loss of our entire family home

and memories, it appears. The 9-day workshop was a major blessing in

helping me to deal. I have experienced and struggled with the guilt

involved in feeling free and spared by a tragic event.

In fact, most of my family appears to not be speaking to each other

anymore, and I go back and forth between feeling relieved and trying

in vain to keep these relationships together. Hopeless, I can hear

saying. So it's good, I have enough to work on for the rest of

my life, however long that appears to be. The deepening from the work

on these events continues to unfold and take me places I never

expected to be.

If you ever want to do the work by phone, please feel free to contact

me. And the round robin sign up on the institute website is also very

powerful. I have found doing the work live with another person (?

another form of the one self) can catalyze some amazing changes for

everyone involved.

In the name of what is,

Cori P

pansarasa@...

[Guest guest]

But what then comes up is a guilty feeling because her death is

benefitting me

Doesn't look from here as if her death is benefitting you. And if it has brought

you to self-examination and a measure of peace, wouldn't that make your twin

sister happy? She'd probably be glad to know that her death resulted in

something positive at least for you and at least some of the time.

Also, even if Sharon had found the Work, can you really know that she would not

have committed suicide anyway? What do you get out of thinking, " If Sharon had

found the Work she would not have committed suicide? " What would your life be

like if you dropped that thought?

I don't think it is necessary to find beauty in anything surrounding suicide.

But perhaps her pain has ceased.

I hope this helps a little.

Vivian

Can someone assist me with the work I am doing?

Hello everyone,

I am glad I found this group and I am glad I found Byron . I

am very new at this and was wondering if someone could assist me

with the place where I am stuck.

In February, my identical twin sister, Sharon, committed suicide. I

have a lot of The Work to do surrounding this but I have worked

through " Sharon shouldn't have killed herself. " I've come to see

that she should have killed herself because that is reality, that is

what happened. I see that her sacrifice has benefitted me becuause

it has led me to this self-examination which has brought me a

measure of peace.

But what then comes up is a guilty feeling because her death is

benefitting me. I question why she couldn't have found " The Work "

before she killed herself because then she may not have done it.

This is linked into the fact that she was extremely unhappy and

hopeless. How do I know this? Happy, hopeful people don't murder

themselves. I am unable to find beauty in this.

I can determine that this thought is not useful to me and drop it

but then it creeps back into my head. I am not sure what to do.

Thank you in advance for your help.

Kindly,

Caren

[Guest guest]

>> But what then comes up is a guilty feeling because her death is

>> benefitting me

> Doesn't look from here as if her death is benefitting you.

Right, coming to think about that...

you think you might be guilty of all the nice things you are

experiencing through what she did? What exactly was it you are

benefitting? I hear " shame " and " guilt " ... thoughts creeping around

in your head, experiencing this feeling of not knowing what to do...

So that's what peace sounds like, according to you?

Oh well...

Come again, what exactly are you guilty of?

> And if it has brought you to self-examination and a measure of

> peace, wouldn't that make your twin sister happy? She'd probably be

> glad to know that her death resulted in something positive at least

> for you and at least some of the time.

I don't think you need to replace your story with another one. Yours

is as good.

> Also, even if Sharon had found the Work, can you really know that

> she would not have committed suicide anyway? What do you get out of

> thinking, " If Sharon had found the Work she would not have

> committed suicide? "

Well, *I* get to blame her for what she did. I find a place to

express my anger towards what she did.

> What would your life be like if you dropped that thought?

>

> I don't think it is necessary to find beauty in anything

> surrounding suicide. But perhaps her pain has ceased.

right. hers. What about yours?

> I hope this helps a little.

thank you for your thoughts.

>

> Vivian

Love,

> Can someone assist me with the work I

> am doing?

>

>

> Hello everyone,

>

> I am glad I found this group and I am glad I found Byron . I

> am very new at this and was wondering if someone could assist me

> with the place where I am stuck.

>

> In February, my identical twin sister, Sharon, committed suicide. I

> have a lot of The Work to do surrounding this but I have worked

> through " Sharon shouldn't have killed herself. " I've come to see

> that she should have killed herself because that is reality, that is

> what happened. I see that her sacrifice has benefitted me becuause

> it has led me to this self-examination which has brought me a

> measure of peace.

>

> But what then comes up is a guilty feeling because her death is

> benefitting me. I question why she couldn't have found " The Work "

> before she killed herself because then she may not have done it.

> This is linked into the fact that she was extremely unhappy and

> hopeless. How do I know this? Happy, hopeful people don't murder

> themselves. I am unable to find beauty in this.

>

> I can determine that this thought is not useful to me and drop it

> but then it creeps back into my head. I am not sure what to do.

>

> Thank you in advance for your help.

>

> Kindly,

> Caren

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Caren,

I admire the work you are doing and your openness to share with this

group. A few thought and questions that came to me while reading your

amazing notes of work.

" I see that her sacrifice has benefitted me becuause

> it has led me to this self-examination which has brought me a

> measure of peace. "

This sounds like the next belief to work on. This is clearly a

judgment statement rather then observation. Do you absolutely know

it's true she has sacrificed herself or is it your perception? Why do

you chose to see it this way? Why does her action have to be labeled?

I do not see how you benefited from her suicide, you are going through

enormous pain, looking for ways to suffer, to understand her and her

actions. Where is the benefit here? Are you referring to the fact that

you have started self exploration process? It is a difficult process

that has many challenges, are you sure you want to view it as benefit?

:-) Please do not be offended i don't want to undermine the work you

are doing. As a person who once tried to commit suicide i can tell you

i wanted the easy way out as i didn't have the energy to deal with

all the work and challenges in this life. So i actually can see great

benefit in death.

" But what then comes up is a guilty feeling because her death is

> benefitting me. I question why she couldn't have found " The Work "

> before she killed herself because then she may not have done it.

> This is linked into the fact that she was extremely unhappy and

> hopeless. How do I know this? Happy, hopeful people don't murder

> themselves. I am unable to find beauty in this. "

This whole paragraph also sound like something to question. Let me ask

you another question. Why/how can you honor her choice? Clearly you

think she has made the wrong choice you think she should have found

" The Work " or something else and should have worked on her unhappiness

so you wouldn't have to be left alone and wonder about why she did it?

Another thing i wanted to advise you is get help. This is a very big

issue and you probably need someone to hear you, probably a

professional, especially since it's your identical twin. You're going

through grief and many other issues, you would benefit greatly from

some counseling/facilitation. There are so many questions to ask

yourself and this can be a great opportunity to learn about yourself.

If you go through this process alone, it's very hard not to get

dragged into self blame, judgment (of everybody involved), accusations.

I honor and admire the work you are doing. I hope you find your peace.

LOVE

Rina

>

> Hello everyone,

>

> I am glad I found this group and I am glad I found Byron . I

> am very new at this and was wondering if someone could assist me

> with the place where I am stuck.

>

> In February, my identical twin sister, Sharon, committed suicide. I

> have a lot of The Work to do surrounding this but I have worked

> through " Sharon shouldn't have killed herself. " I've come to see

> that she should have killed herself because that is reality, that is

> what happened. I see that her sacrifice has benefitted me becuause

> it has led me to this self-examination which has brought me a

> measure of peace.

>

> But what then comes up is a guilty feeling because her death is

> benefitting me. I question why she couldn't have found " The Work "

> before she killed herself because then she may not have done it.

> This is linked into the fact that she was extremely unhappy and

> hopeless. How do I know this? Happy, hopeful people don't murder

> themselves. I am unable to find beauty in this.

>

> I can determine that this thought is not useful to me and drop it

> but then it creeps back into my head. I am not sure what to do.

>

> Thank you in advance for your help.

>

> Kindly,

> Caren

>

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

Wow. Thank you to you and everyone who is helping me with this. And especially

thank you for being kind and gentle. I do want to honor Sharon and I do want to

know the truth. But I do feel like I have a lot of work to do because I have

lots and lots of angry, hurt, confused, fearful, and panicky thoughts

surrounding this. I have a new notebook and plan to work a lot to work through

all of this, even if it takes my lifetime.

I know this can't be true (Actually, I don't know. I'm confused.) but there are

so many complicating factors to all of this. One is that at the time of her

death, I had been in therapy for two years dealing with, among other things,

post traumatic stress disorder and anxiety and depression stemming from severe

bystander abuse. My mother severely abused my oldest sister and she is brain

damaged and crippled as a result. We younger siblings were required to clap and

cheer as she was beated, tied up, etc., etc. I know that Sharon's suicide was a

direct result of this, or at least began the downhill slide. She never got over

the clapping and cheering part. So her suicide started me back with some

flashbacks and panic/anxiety. I do believe her suicide was preventable.

(That's why they have suicide prevention hotlines, right? Because suicide is

preventable.)

Also, she was a prominent psychologist. I guess in my skewed thoughts, I always

thought she was somehow protected. She had access to all the resources.

Also, every mean thing I ever did to her as a child has come back to haunt me.

Would " this " or " that " have stopped the dominoes from falling in this direction?

O.K., enough. Please know I'm grateful for all of your help.

Love,

Caren

-------------- Original message --------------

Dear Caren,

I feel touched by your request. Thank you for asking for support in

what must be a very tough time...

And I hear a lot of love coming from you.

I hear you want to honor her, despite of all the confusion you are

experiencing.

And that you want to know the truth.

I'd love to assist you with the work you are doing. You sound very

brave.

Love,

Am 13.09.2007 um 17:17 schrieb adoptivemomx2:

> Hello everyone,

>

> I am glad I found this group and I am glad I found Byron . I

> am very new at this and was wondering if someone could assist me

> with the place where I am stuck.

>

> In February, my identical twin sister, Sharon, committed suicide. I

> have a lot of The Work to do surrounding this but I have worked

> through " Sharon shouldn't have killed herself. " I've come to see

> that she should have killed herself because that is reality, that is

> what happened.

> I see that her sacrifice has benefitted me becuause

> it has led me to this self-examination which has brought me a

> measure of peace.

>

> But what then comes up is a guilty feeling because her death is

> benefitting me. I question why she couldn't have found " The Work "

> before she killed herself because then she may not have done it.

> This is linked into the fact that she was extremely unhappy and

> hopeless. How do I know this? Happy, hopeful people don't murder

> themselves. I am unable to find beauty in this.

>

> I can determine that this thought is not useful to me and drop it

> but then it creeps back into my head. I am not sure what to do.

>

> Thank you in advance for your help.

>

> Kindly,

> Caren

[Guest guest]

>

> Dear Caren,

>

> > Hello everyone,

> >

> > I am glad I found this group and I am glad I found Byron .

> Welcome!

Thank you : )

>

> > I am very new at this and was wondering if someone could assist

me

> > with the place where I am stuck.

> >

> > In February, my identical twin sister, Sharon, committed

suicide. I

> > have a lot of The Work to do surrounding this but I have worked

> > through " Sharon shouldn't have killed herself. " I've come to see

> > that she should have killed herself because that is reality,

that is

> > what happened.

> Yes, it is.

>

> Not accepting that is hard.

> Eventually it is even impossible.

This is so true. It still seems like it is the suicide that is so

hard. Not my thoughts about it. But I know it has to be my

thougths. I read where heard the news that she may have

cancer, and she laughed. She sees the beauty in it and that

it's " all good. " Does this mean she doesn't grieve or at least get

sad?

>

> > I see that her sacrifice has benefitted me becuause

> > it has led me to this self-examination which has brought me a

> > measure of peace.

> Well, she probably did it because it was the only way she knew to

get

> some peace.

>

> That's why I would do it. To stop my thoughts.

Yes, it stopped her thoughts. Actually, I don't know if that's true

(another disturbing thought I need to work on.) Even before I heard

of " The Work, " I would have glimpses happiness for Sharon taking

control and doing what she wanted to do. This was something she did

very much on her own terms.

>

> There's something about sacrifice... you know what it's like to

> sacrifice something. You've been there, haven't you?

> It is like giving something you hold dear and believing that you

> won't ever get it back. Something you think you need.

> And believing that you get something else in return. Something

that

> is more valuable to you. But without really being convinced that

you

> can do without the other.

>

> What your sister gave... seems to be something irreversibly lost.

> She gave her life.

>

> Who is sacrificing yours?

I am sacrificing mine. I know I've also " killed " her hundreds of

times in my mind thinking about it. She suicided in a very violent

manner and combined three methods to ensure her death. She was a

pain psychologist and knew from being in the medical community that

not all suicides are successful and can result in states of

disability that some would consider worse than death. Especially

if life was bad enough to kill yourself in the first place. Anyway,

the image is disturbing to me. Almost like I can't get it out of my

head. I don't want to sacrifice my life.

>

>

> > But what then comes up is a guilty feeling because her death is

> > benefitting me.

> What was it that you said, did or thought, that pushed her to do

it?

> Can you find something?

No, I can't find anything. Thank you for this.

>

> > I question why she couldn't have found " The Work "

> > before she killed herself because then she may not have done it.

> That's a good one.

>

> > This is linked into the fact that she was extremely unhappy and

> > hopeless.

>

> > How do I know this?

> Yes, what is your proof? Before we can examine it, we must look

at

> it. Best to write it down, so that we don't forget what it is we

are

> examining. And to have something to get back to, if mind wanders

off.

>

> > Happy, hopeful people don't murder themselves.

> This is a fact. Something you know.

> Sounds like a religion to me.

I'm not certain what you mean by " religion. " I guess my

culture/American velues indoctrinated this into me, but it sure

makes sense. I don't know of anyone that was so utterly happy they

killed themselves. And she acted unhappy most of her life.

>

> You might have all evidence that that one is true.

>

> And who would you be without it, in this moment?

> Who would you be living your life, what would your life look like,

if

> you could never believe it again.

My life would be very different. I would be calm, less fearful. I

would be happy for the good moments she did have and the good she

did in the world.

>

> > I am unable to find beauty in this.

> As you know, that's because you argue with it.

Is this really right? I can't see it. I'm working on it, I just

can't see the beauty. Do you see the beauty in a suicide? (It's

okay if you say yes.)

>

> Who would you be, thinking of your sister, if you could not think

> that she was unhappy and hopeless?

> How would you see her?

I would see her as happy and hopeful. And this is where I get

completely stuck. She was unhappy. She said she was unhappy. She

acted unhappy. I want to learn and I want to move past this but

this is where I get stuck. I need to work on it.

> How would you remember her, if you could never ever believe again

> that she had one single moment in her life in which she was not

> totally happy?

> How would that feel?

I would feel great but she had a very sad existence. I feel like

I'm trying to trick myself into not seeing the " real " reality. I'm

not trying to be difficult. I want to let go of this. Thank you

for helping me.

>

> > I can determine that this thought

> which one, exactly?

That her suicide was preventable. That she could be alive right now.

>

> > is not useful to me and drop it

> > but then it creeps back into my head.

> The thought comes to pass, not to stay. When it comes, and you try

to

> push it away, you'll notice some kind of pain.

> That's a gentle reminder that your work is not yet done.

>

> > I am not sure what to do.

> Is that true? ;-)

>

> When was it, ever? Can you find that place?

>

> > Thank you in advance for your help.

> Thank you again for asking.

>

>

> > Kindly,

> > Caren

> Love,

>

Love,

Caren

>

[Guest guest]

> >

> > Hello everyone,

> >

> > I am glad I found this group and I am glad I found Byron .

I

> > am very new at this and was wondering if someone could assist me

> > with the place where I am stuck.

> >

> > In February, my identical twin sister, Sharon, committed

suicide. I

> > have a lot of The Work to do surrounding this but I have worked

> > through " Sharon shouldn't have killed herself. " I've come to see

> > that she should have killed herself because that is reality,

that is

> > what happened. I see that her sacrifice has benefitted me

becuause

> > it has led me to this self-examination which has brought me a

> > measure of peace.

> >

> > ***Question: is it true that it was a sacrifice? Did she have

a free choice

> > in the matter? Did she do it for you?

No, it wasn't a sacrifice she made for me. It just turned out that

way. Thank you for this question. I just got some clarity. : )

> >

> > But what then comes up is a guilty feeling because her death is

> > benefitting me. I question why she couldn't have found " The

Work "

> > before she killed herself because then she may not have done it.

> > This is linked into the fact that she was extremely unhappy and

> > hopeless. How do I know this? Happy, hopeful people don't

murder

> > themselves. I am unable to find beauty in this.

> >

> > ***Question: Is it true that her death is benefiting you? Or is

it as true

> > that your own explorations are benefiting you? Can you know you

would not

> > have found the Work via another catalyst? I also wonder whether

there is an

> > underlying thought that positive things should not come from

negative, to

> > phrase it crudely?

I might have found the The Work another way. And it is my

explorations that are benefitting me. And yes, I guess do

believe/have believed that good things should not come from bad

things.

> >

> > I can determine that this thought is not useful to me and drop it

> > but then it creeps back into my head. I am not sure what to do.

> >

> > *** It¹s great that you can make that determination. And I know

there are

> > many very wise people on this list who may be able to assist.

> >

> > Thank you in advance for your help.

> >

> > Kindly,

> > Caren

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> But what then comes up is a guilty feeling because her death is

> benefitting me. I question why she couldn't have found " The Work "

> before she killed herself because then she may not have done it.

Why, the Work would have made her happy and hopeful? Wishful thinking.

> This is linked into the fact that she was extremely unhappy and

> hopeless. How do I know this? Happy, hopeful people don't murder

> themselves. I am unable to find beauty in this.

You were living an ignorant life. Now you have to find beauty - by

force. How do you say that this benefits you?

Would you need the medicine if there was no disease?

> I can determine that this thought is not useful to me and drop it

> but then it creeps back into my head. I am not sure what to do.

You fight to drop it? Keep fighting- thoughts are more determinant

than your determination.

nel

[Guest guest]

Dear Caren,

>>> I am very new at this and was wondering if someone could assist

>>> me

>>> with the place where I am stuck.

>>>

>>> In February, my identical twin sister, Sharon, committed

>>> suicide. I

>>> have a lot of The Work to do surrounding this but I have worked

>>> through " Sharon shouldn't have killed herself. " I've come to see

>>> that she should have killed herself because that is reality,

>>> that is

>>> what happened.

>> Yes, it is.

>>

>> Not accepting that is hard.

>> Eventually it is even impossible.

> This is so true. It still seems like it is the suicide that is so

> hard. Not my thoughts about it.

How many times did she try?

And how many times have you tried your way?

So which one is harder?

> But I know it has to be my thougths. I read where heard the

> news that she may have

> cancer, and she laughed. She sees the beauty in it and that

> it's " all good. " Does this mean she doesn't grieve or at least get

> sad?

I can see how she wouldn't.

What is there to grief but about lost opportunities?

And how can I hope to enjoy my life in the future, if I cannot even

cope with the one now?

The only opportunity I can ever loose is the one I have now.

>>> I see that her sacrifice has benefitted me becuause

>>> it has led me to this self-examination which has brought me a

>>> measure of peace.

>> Well, she probably did it because it was the only way she knew to

>> get some peace.

>> That's why I would do it. To stop my thoughts.

> Yes, it stopped her thoughts. Actually, I don't know if that's true

> (another disturbing thought I need to work on.) Even before I heard

> of " The Work, " I would have glimpses happiness for Sharon taking

> control and doing what she wanted to do. This was something she did

> very much on her own terms.

Yes, it was.

But we should not be happy for someone taking his own decisions. Not

if they are against our religion.

So much for free will.

We don't believe in the free will of others, only in our own. ;-)

We don't say: " Hey, Bill is executing his free will " . We rather say:

" What the heck is wrong with Bill? "

>> There's something about sacrifice... you know what it's like to

>> sacrifice something. You've been there, haven't you?

>> It is like giving something you hold dear and believing that you

>> won't ever get it back. Something you think you need.

>> And believing that you get something else in return. Something

>> that

>> is more valuable to you. But without really being convinced that

>> you

>> can do without the other.

>>

>> What your sister gave... seems to be something irreversibly lost.

>> She gave her life.

>>

>> Who is sacrificing yours?

> I am sacrificing mine.

Good. You found the one responsible, now you can make her stop.

> I know I've also " killed " her hundreds of

> times in my mind thinking about it. She suicided in a very violent

> manner and combined three methods to ensure her death.

Well, she was determined and successful.

> She was a

> pain psychologist and knew from being in the medical community that

> not all suicides are successful and can result in states of

> disability that some would consider worse than death. Especially

> if life was bad enough to kill yourself in the first place. Anyway,

> the image is disturbing to me. Almost like I can't get it out of my

> head. I don't want to sacrifice my life.

Of course not.

You don't have to. You've done it long enough.

>>> But what then comes up is a guilty feeling because her death is

>>> benefitting me.

>> What was it that you said, did or thought, that pushed her to do

>> it?

>> Can you find something?

> No, I can't find anything. Thank you for this.

Thank you for really looking.

>>> I question why she couldn't have found " The Work "

>>> before she killed herself because then she may not have done it.

>> That's a good one.

>>

>>> This is linked into the fact that she was extremely unhappy and

>>> hopeless.

>>

>>> How do I know this?

>> Yes, what is your proof? Before we can examine it, we must look

>> at

>> it. Best to write it down, so that we don't forget what it is we

>> are

>> examining. And to have something to get back to, if mind wanders

>> off.

>>> Happy, hopeful people don't murder themselves.

>> This is a fact. Something you know.

>> Sounds like a religion to me.

> I'm not certain what you mean by " religion. "

A religion is something I believe in, without having a proof.

If I do have a proof it becomes a fact.

And if I know it's not true, then it's a lie.

So far, none of my former so valuable proofs withstood inquiry.

> I guess my

> culture/American velues indoctrinated this into me,

Ok, so who would you be without their story?

> but it sure

> makes sense. I don't know of anyone that was so utterly happy they

> killed themselves.

Ever heard of these suicide-massacres of some sects?

> And she acted unhappy most of her life.

It does make sense, that's why it is so convincing. And can you

really know that?

It's just inquiry. How would you live with her suicide, if you knew

she did it out of happyness?

>> You might have all evidence that that one is true.

>>

>> And who would you be without it, in this moment?

>> Who would you be living your life, what would your life look like,

>> if

>> you could never believe it again.

> My life would be very different. I would be calm, less fearful. I

> would be happy for the good moments she did have and the good she

> did in the world.

Wouldn't that be much more like worshipping her? Doesn't it feel much

better to appreciate her beauty?

>>> I am unable to find beauty in this.

>> As you know, that's because you argue with it.

> Is this really right? I can't see it. I'm working on it, I just

> can't see the beauty. Do you see the beauty in a suicide? (It's

> okay if you say yes.)

I see beauty in your love for your sister.

Can you?

Now when you have the thought: she shouldn't have killed herself...

what about then?

And it's ok if you don't. Just notice your answer.

About the suicide...

You say she was unhappy most of her life. How about the time before

her suicide?

How was she? How did she live?

Can you acknowledge that for her death could have been the kinder

choice? Out of her perspective?

As you say, she was very determined to get that right first-time.

And I am not asking you to see any beauty in that act.

>> Who would you be, thinking of your sister, if you could not think

>> that she was unhappy and hopeless?

>> How would you see her?

> I would see her as happy and hopeful. And this is where I get

> completely stuck. She was unhappy. She said she was unhappy. She

> acted unhappy. I want to learn and I want to move past this but

> this is where I get stuck. I need to work on it.

On what do you want to work? That she was unhappy?

Or maybe on your motive for her feeling better?

Why do you want so much for her not to have lead an unhappy life?

Pretty hopeless, I'd say.

To make feel better yourself, isn't it?

So, take the shortcut:

who's business is it, when you are unhappy?

Can you find a moment, when you were unhappy, and you did not want

anyone to change it?

Do you remember how it felt, when you experienced how people around

you looked at you and got unhappy? Was it like you could read their

thoughts, know what they were thinking? About you? How did that feel?

Did any of that help?

And who's business is her unhappyness?

>> How would you remember her, if you could never ever believe again

>> that she had one single moment in her life in which she was not

>> totally happy?

>> How would that feel?

> I would feel great

Good. Remember that feeling.

> but she had a very sad existence. I feel like

> I'm trying to trick myself into not seeing the " real " reality. I'm

> not trying to be difficult.

You are doing great.

> I want to let go of this. Thank you

> for helping me.

You're welcome.

No one is saying she didn't have a very sad existence. No one is even

doubting it. So, don't try to trick yourself (which isn't possible in

my experience).

So look at the sad existence.

Can you put it in numbers? How much of her life, according to you,

was sad, and how much was happy? This is just to see if ALL her life

was unhappy (a life, that you would like her to continue, when you

believe that she shouldn't have killed herself, by the way).

>>> I can determine that this thought

>> which one, exactly?

> That her suicide was preventable. That she could be alive right now.

She could be alive right now in your thoughts, as well. But I hear

you prefer to believe the story that she killed herself unnecessarily.

I am not sure, but I'd say you save the " she killed herself - is that

true? " for later.

>>> is not useful to me and drop it

>>> but then it creeps back into my head.

>> The thought comes to pass, not to stay. When it comes, and you try

>> to

>> push it away, you'll notice some kind of pain.

>> That's a gentle reminder that your work is not yet done.

>>

>>> I am not sure what to do.

>> Is that true? ;-)

>>

>> When was it, ever? Can you find that place?

>>

>>> Thank you in advance for your help.

>> Thank you again for asking.

>>

>>

> Love,

> Caren

you are being very brave. Thank you for that.

Love,

[Guest guest]

Caren,

Is it really necessary for you to find beauty in your sister's death? Isn't it

enough to find acceptance? It may seem wrong to you (and to me) for her to

commit suicide. But that was the decision she made. Perhaps one needs to honor

and accept her decision.

How do we know it was right for Sharon? Because she did it. And from your

description, she was obviously committed to doing it and intent upon succeeding.

What would your life be like if you accepted her decision?

Vivian

Re: Re: Can someone assist me with the work I am

doing?

Dear Caren,

>>> I am very new at this and was wondering if someone could assist

>>> me

>>> with the place where I am stuck.

>>>

>>> In February, my identical twin sister, Sharon, committed

>>> suicide. I

>>> have a lot of The Work to do surrounding this but I have worked

>>> through " Sharon shouldn't have killed herself. " I've come to see

>>> that she should have killed herself because that is reality,

>>> that is

>>> what happened.

>> Yes, it is.

>>

>> Not accepting that is hard.

>> Eventually it is even impossible.

> This is so true. It still seems like it is the suicide that is so

> hard. Not my thoughts about it.

How many times did she try?

And how many times have you tried your way?

So which one is harder?

> But I know it has to be my thougths. I read where heard the

> news that she may have

> cancer, and she laughed. She sees the beauty in it and that

> it's " all good. " Does this mean she doesn't grieve or at least get

> sad?

I can see how she wouldn't.

What is there to grief but about lost opportunities?

And how can I hope to enjoy my life in the future, if I cannot even

cope with the one now?

The only opportunity I can ever loose is the one I have now.

>>> I see that her sacrifice has benefitted me becuause

>>> it has led me to this self-examination which has brought me a

>>> measure of peace.

>> Well, she probably did it because it was the only way she knew to

>> get some peace.

>> That's why I would do it. To stop my thoughts.

> Yes, it stopped her thoughts. Actually, I don't know if that's true

> (another disturbing thought I need to work on.) Even before I heard

> of " The Work, " I would have glimpses happiness for Sharon taking

> control and doing what she wanted to do. This was something she did

> very much on her own terms.

Yes, it was.

But we should not be happy for someone taking his own decisions. Not

if they are against our religion.

So much for free will.

We don't believe in the free will of others, only in our own. ;-)

We don't say: " Hey, Bill is executing his free will " . We rather say:

" What the heck is wrong with Bill? "

>> There's something about sacrifice... you know what it's like to

>> sacrifice something. You've been there, haven't you?

>> It is like giving something you hold dear and believing that you

>> won't ever get it back. Something you think you need.

>> And believing that you get something else in return. Something

>> that

>> is more valuable to you. But without really being convinced that

>> you

>> can do without the other.

>>

>> What your sister gave... seems to be something irreversibly lost.

>> She gave her life.

>>

>> Who is sacrificing yours?

> I am sacrificing mine.

Good. You found the one responsible, now you can make her stop.

> I know I've also " killed " her hundreds of

> times in my mind thinking about it. She suicided in a very violent

> manner and combined three methods to ensure her death.

Well, she was determined and successful.

> She was a

> pain psychologist and knew from being in the medical community that

> not all suicides are successful and can result in states of

> disability that some would consider worse than death. Especially

> if life was bad enough to kill yourself in the first place. Anyway,

> the image is disturbing to me. Almost like I can't get it out of my

> head. I don't want to sacrifice my life.

Of course not.

You don't have to. You've done it long enough.

>>> But what then comes up is a guilty feeling because her death is

>>> benefitting me.

>> What was it that you said, did or thought, that pushed her to do

>> it?

>> Can you find something?

> No, I can't find anything. Thank you for this.

Thank you for really looking.

>>> I question why she couldn't have found " The Work "

>>> before she killed herself because then she may not have done it.

>> That's a good one.

>>

>>> This is linked into the fact that she was extremely unhappy and

>>> hopeless.

>>

>>> How do I know this?

>> Yes, what is your proof? Before we can examine it, we must look

>> at

>> it. Best to write it down, so that we don't forget what it is we

>> are

>> examining. And to have something to get back to, if mind wanders

>> off.

>>> Happy, hopeful people don't murder themselves.

>> This is a fact. Something you know.

>> Sounds like a religion to me.

> I'm not certain what you mean by " religion. "

A religion is something I believe in, without having a proof.

If I do have a proof it becomes a fact.

And if I know it's not true, then it's a lie.

So far, none of my former so valuable proofs withstood inquiry.

> I guess my

> culture/American velues indoctrinated this into me,

Ok, so who would you be without their story?

> but it sure

> makes sense. I don't know of anyone that was so utterly happy they

> killed themselves.

Ever heard of these suicide-massacres of some sects?

> And she acted unhappy most of her life.

It does make sense, that's why it is so convincing. And can you

really know that?

It's just inquiry. How would you live with her suicide, if you knew

she did it out of happyness?

>> You might have all evidence that that one is true.

>>

>> And who would you be without it, in this moment?

>> Who would you be living your life, what would your life look like,

>> if

>> you could never believe it again.

> My life would be very different. I would be calm, less fearful. I

> would be happy for the good moments she did have and the good she

> did in the world.

Wouldn't that be much more like worshipping her? Doesn't it feel much

better to appreciate her beauty?

>>> I am unable to find beauty in this.

>> As you know, that's because you argue with it.

> Is this really right? I can't see it. I'm working on it, I just

> can't see the beauty. Do you see the beauty in a suicide? (It's

> okay if you say yes.)

I see beauty in your love for your sister.

Can you?

Now when you have the thought: she shouldn't have killed herself...

what about then?

And it's ok if you don't. Just notice your answer.

About the suicide...

You say she was unhappy most of her life. How about the time before

her suicide?

How was she? How did she live?

Can you acknowledge that for her death could have been the kinder

choice? Out of her perspective?

As you say, she was very determined to get that right first-time.

And I am not asking you to see any beauty in that act.

>> Who would you be, thinking of your sister, if you could not think

>> that she was unhappy and hopeless?

>> How would you see her?

> I would see her as happy and hopeful. And this is where I get

> completely stuck. She was unhappy. She said she was unhappy. She

> acted unhappy. I want to learn and I want to move past this but

> this is where I get stuck. I need to work on it.

On what do you want to work? That she was unhappy?

Or maybe on your motive for her feeling better?

Why do you want so much for her not to have lead an unhappy life?

Pretty hopeless, I'd say.

To make feel better yourself, isn't it?

So, take the shortcut:

who's business is it, when you are unhappy?

Can you find a moment, when you were unhappy, and you did not want

anyone to change it?

Do you remember how it felt, when you experienced how people around

you looked at you and got unhappy? Was it like you could read their

thoughts, know what they were thinking? About you? How did that feel?

Did any of that help?

And who's business is her unhappyness?

>> How would you remember her, if you could never ever believe again

>> that she had one single moment in her life in which she was not

>> totally happy?

>> How would that feel?

> I would feel great

Good. Remember that feeling.

> but she had a very sad existence. I feel like

> I'm trying to trick myself into not seeing the " real " reality. I'm

> not trying to be difficult.

You are doing great.

> I want to let go of this. Thank you

> for helping me.

You're welcome.

No one is saying she didn't have a very sad existence. No one is even

doubting it. So, don't try to trick yourself (which isn't possible in

my experience).

So look at the sad existence.

Can you put it in numbers? How much of her life, according to you,

was sad, and how much was happy? This is just to see if ALL her life

was unhappy (a life, that you would like her to continue, when you

believe that she shouldn't have killed herself, by the way).

>>> I can determine that this thought

>> which one, exactly?

> That her suicide was preventable. That she could be alive right now.

She could be alive right now in your thoughts, as well. But I hear

you prefer to believe the story that she killed herself unnecessarily.

I am not sure, but I'd say you save the " she killed herself - is that

true? " for later.

>>> is not useful to me and drop it

>>> but then it creeps back into my head.

>> The thought comes to pass, not to stay. When it comes, and you try

>> to

>> push it away, you'll notice some kind of pain.

>> That's a gentle reminder that your work is not yet done.

>>

>>> I am not sure what to do.

>> Is that true? ;-)

>>

>> When was it, ever? Can you find that place?

>>

>>> Thank you in advance for your help.

>> Thank you again for asking.

>>

>>

> Love,

> Caren

you are being very brave. Thank you for that.

Love,

[Guest guest]

Dear Caren,

Am 16.09.2007 um 01:47 schrieb carenrago@...:

> Dear ,

>

> Wow. Thank you to you and everyone who is helping me with this.

> And especially thank you for being kind and gentle.

You are so welcome.

> I do want to honor Sharon and I do want to know the truth.

thank you for that.

> But I do feel like I have a lot of work to do because I have lots

> and lots of angry, hurt, confused, fearful, and panicky thoughts

> surrounding this. I have a new notebook and plan to work a lot to

> work through all of this, even if it takes my lifetime.

How many thoughts come up at a time?

If a thought comes up, and I am hurt in any way, I know I believe a

thought that is not true.

It'll leave, and come back.

Until I investigate it.

After that, it won't even matter if it comes back.

Every thought is welcome, now.

> I know this can't be true (Actually, I don't know. I'm confused.)

> but there are so many complicating factors to all of this.

yes.

> One is that at the time of her death, I had been in therapy for two

> years dealing with, among other things, post traumatic stress

> disorder and anxiety and depression stemming from severe bystander

> abuse.

So, could you point me to the complicate part?

> My mother severely abused my oldest sister and she is brain damaged

> and crippled as a result.

That's what people around you say, and it's the doctors diagnose. And

is it true?

> We younger siblings were required to clap and cheer as she was

> beated, tied up, etc., etc.

How was that required? What alternate choice did you have?

> I know that Sharon's suicide was a direct result of this, or at

> least began the downhill slide.

I hear you don't know it was a direct result.

> She never got over the clapping and cheering part.

How can you tell if you " got over " that? What's your reference?

> So her suicide started me back with some flashbacks and panic/

> anxiety. I do believe her suicide was preventable.

So... what's the line here? It was preventable, and if it was, you

should have done something about it?

And I hear your sister was a trained psychologist. She would have

known who to ask for help, wouldn't she?

> (That's why they have suicide prevention hotlines, right? Because

> suicide is preventable.)

They have these phone numbers you can call. You get someone to talk

with you. And you may not kill yourself. I don't know if they have

less suicides with these lines. And I think they do.

> Also, she was a prominent psychologist. I guess in my skewed

> thoughts, I always thought she was somehow protected. She had

> access to all the resources.

Yes, she had. And yet she did what she did.

> Also, every mean thing I ever did to her as a child has come back

> to haunt me. Would " this " or " that " have stopped the dominoes from

> falling in this direction?

Do these one at a time. Write down these mean things.

Write your sister a letter of apology, and say how you would like to

count up for it.

> O.K., enough. Please know I'm grateful for all of your help.

I hear you.

> Love,

> Caren

Love,

> -------------- Original message --------------

>

> Dear Caren,

>

> I feel touched by your request. Thank you for asking for support in

> what must be a very tough time...

>

> And I hear a lot of love coming from you.

>

> I hear you want to honor her, despite of all the confusion you are

> experiencing.

>

> And that you want to know the truth.

>

> I'd love to assist you with the work you are doing. You sound very

> brave.

>

> Love,

>

>

> Am 13.09.2007 um 17:17 schrieb adoptivemomx2:

>

>> Hello everyone,

>>

>> I am glad I found this group and I am glad I found Byron . I

>> am very new at this and was wondering if someone could assist me

>> with the place where I am stuck.

>>

>> In February, my identical twin sister, Sharon, committed suicide. I

>> have a lot of The Work to do surrounding this but I have worked

>> through " Sharon shouldn't have killed herself. " I've come to see

>> that she should have killed herself because that is reality, that is

>> what happened.

>> I see that her sacrifice has benefitted me becuause

>> it has led me to this self-examination which has brought me a

>> measure of peace.

>>

>> But what then comes up is a guilty feeling because her death is

>> benefitting me. I question why she couldn't have found " The Work "

>> before she killed herself because then she may not have done it.

>> This is linked into the fact that she was extremely unhappy and

>> hopeless. How do I know this? Happy, hopeful people don't murder

>> themselves. I am unable to find beauty in this.

>>

>> I can determine that this thought is not useful to me and drop it

>> but then it creeps back into my head. I am not sure what to do.

>>

>> Thank you in advance for your help.

>>

>> Kindly,

>> Caren

[Guest guest]

Hi Cori,

Thank you for your offer. I have emailed you privately.

Love,

Caren

>

> Dear Caren,

>

> Thanks for your courage and committment to the work. I have found

> that these type of life events are the most fruitful for doing the

> work on, and I support you in pursuing the mind as it spins its

> stories about what should, could, and might have been.

>

> I have also experienced the sudden, unexpected death of a family

> member in recent years, as well as the loss of our entire family

home

> and memories, it appears. The 9-day workshop was a major blessing

in

> helping me to deal. I have experienced and struggled with the

guilt

> involved in feeling free and spared by a tragic event.

>

> In fact, most of my family appears to not be speaking to each

other

> anymore, and I go back and forth between feeling relieved and

trying

> in vain to keep these relationships together. Hopeless, I can hear

> saying. So it's good, I have enough to work on for the rest

of

> my life, however long that appears to be. The deepening from the

work

> on these events continues to unfold and take me places I never

> expected to be.

>

> If you ever want to do the work by phone, please feel free to

contact

> me. And the round robin sign up on the institute website is also

very

> powerful. I have found doing the work live with another person (?

> another form of the one self) can catalyze some amazing changes

for

> everyone involved.

>

> In the name of what is,

>

> Cori P

> pansarasa@...

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Vivian,

Thank you for helping.

Yes, I would like to think that she would be happy for me doing this

work. No, I cannot know that she wouldn't have committed suicide

anyway even is she had found The Work. That is my fantasy because I

am trying to go back and fix it and make it so that she didn't have

to kill herself. I want to go back and make her not hurt and make

it so that she could have enjoyed her life. I do know this is

futile. It just seems to run on a loop over and over again. I know

The Work can help me.

I do hope her pain has ceased.

Thank you.

Love,

Caren

>

> But what then comes up is a guilty feeling because her death is

> benefitting me

>

> Doesn't look from here as if her death is benefitting you. And if

it has brought you to self-examination and a measure of peace,

wouldn't that make your twin sister happy? She'd probably be glad to

know that her death resulted in something positive at least for you

and at least some of the time.

>

> Also, even if Sharon had found the Work, can you really know that

she would not have committed suicide anyway? What do you get out of

thinking, " If Sharon had found the Work she would not have committed

suicide? " What would your life be like if you dropped that thought?

>

> I don't think it is necessary to find beauty in anything

surrounding suicide. But perhaps her pain has ceased.

>

> I hope this helps a little.

>

> Vivian

> Can someone assist me with the work I

am doing?

>

>

> Hello everyone,

>

> I am glad I found this group and I am glad I found Byron .

I

> am very new at this and was wondering if someone could assist me

> with the place where I am stuck.

>

> In February, my identical twin sister, Sharon, committed

suicide. I

> have a lot of The Work to do surrounding this but I have worked

> through " Sharon shouldn't have killed herself. " I've come to see

> that she should have killed herself because that is reality,

that is

> what happened. I see that her sacrifice has benefitted me

becuause

> it has led me to this self-examination which has brought me a

> measure of peace.

>

> But what then comes up is a guilty feeling because her death is

> benefitting me. I question why she couldn't have found " The

Work "

> before she killed herself because then she may not have done it.

> This is linked into the fact that she was extremely unhappy and

> hopeless. How do I know this? Happy, hopeful people don't murder

> themselves. I am unable to find beauty in this.

>

> I can determine that this thought is not useful to me and drop

it

> but then it creeps back into my head. I am not sure what to do.

>

> Thank you in advance for your help.

>

> Kindly,

> Caren

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> >> But what then comes up is a guilty feeling because her death is

> >> benefitting me

> > Doesn't look from here as if her death is benefitting you.

> Right, coming to think about that...

>

> you think you might be guilty of all the nice things you are

> experiencing through what she did? What exactly was it you are

> benefitting? I hear " shame " and " guilt " ... thoughts creeping

around

> in your head, experiencing this feeling of not knowing what to

do...

> So that's what peace sounds like, according to you?

>

> Oh well...

>

> Come again, what exactly are you guilty of?

I'm not guilty of anything. And they are not peaceful thoughts. I

am just so sad she's gone and I'm so sad she chose suicide. It

would have been so much easier if she had died in a car accident.

There are such taboos in our society around suicide.

>

>

> > And if it has brought you to self-examination and a measure of

> > peace, wouldn't that make your twin sister happy? She'd probably

be

> > glad to know that her death resulted in something positive at

least

> > for you and at least some of the time.

> I don't think you need to replace your story with another one.

Yours

> is as good.

>

> > Also, even if Sharon had found the Work, can you really know

that

> > she would not have committed suicide anyway? What do you get out

of

> > thinking, " If Sharon had found the Work she would not have

> > committed suicide? "

> Well, *I* get to blame her for what she did. I find a place to

> express my anger towards what she did.

I am angry. I do blame her. Her act led to a LOT of pain and

sadness.

>

> > What would your life be like if you dropped that thought?

It would be peaceful. But than I feel like I am in la-la land...not

facing reality (or at least possibility). I am getting frustrated

with myself that I cannot see this the way that will bring me peace.

> >

> > I don't think it is necessary to find beauty in anything

> > surrounding suicide. But perhaps her pain has ceased.

> right. hers. What about yours?

>

> > I hope this helps a little.

> thank you for your thoughts.

>

> >

> > Vivian

> Love,

>

Love,

Caren

>

> > Can someone assist me with the work

I

> > am doing?

> >

> >

> > Hello everyone,

> >

> > I am glad I found this group and I am glad I found Byron

. I

> > am very new at this and was wondering if someone could assist

me

> > with the place where I am stuck.

> >

> > In February, my identical twin sister, Sharon, committed

suicide. I

> > have a lot of The Work to do surrounding this but I have worked

> > through " Sharon shouldn't have killed herself. " I've come to

see

> > that she should have killed herself because that is reality,

that is

> > what happened. I see that her sacrifice has benefitted me

becuause

> > it has led me to this self-examination which has brought me a

> > measure of peace.

> >

> > But what then comes up is a guilty feeling because her death is

> > benefitting me. I question why she couldn't have found " The

Work "

> > before she killed herself because then she may not have done

it.

> > This is linked into the fact that she was extremely unhappy and

> > hopeless. How do I know this? Happy, hopeful people don't

murder

> > themselves. I am unable to find beauty in this.

> >

> > I can determine that this thought is not useful to me and drop

it

> > but then it creeps back into my head. I am not sure what to do.

> >

> > Thank you in advance for your help.

> >

> > Kindly,

> > Caren

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Rina,

Thank you so much for your response. I am very grateful for the

help I am getting on this board. Thank you for caring. I put my

answers underneath yours down below:

>

> Hi Caren,

> I admire the work you are doing and your openness to share with

this

> group. A few thought and questions that came to me while reading

your

> amazing notes of work.

Thank you.

>

> " I see that her sacrifice has benefitted me becuause

> > it has led me to this self-examination which has brought me a

> > measure of peace. "

> This sounds like the next belief to work on. This is clearly a

> judgment statement rather then observation. Do you absolutely know

> it's true she has sacrificed herself or is it your perception?

No. I can't know that. Thank you for pointing this out.

Why do

> you chose to see it this way?

I don't know why I choose to see it this way. Maybe there is a part

of me that wants to be punished. At conception, we were one cell.

People talk about twins having the closest relatonship there is. We

weren;t even close enough to have her let me know her plans or give

me an opportunity to help. I;m scared. We shared a bed until we

were 7 and lived together until we were 20. And now I have to live

the rest of my life without her. I'm just very sad. I get a good

life and she didn't.

Why does her action have to be labeled?

I guess I label all actions because it helps me try to make sense of

things. I know...not working. : )

> I do not see how you benefited from her suicide, you are going

through

> enormous pain, looking for ways to suffer, to understand her and

her

> actions. Where is the benefit here? Are you referring to the fact

that

> you have started self exploration process?

Yes.

It is a difficult process

> that has many challenges, are you sure you want to view it as

benefit?

> :-) Please do not be offended i don't want to undermine the work

you

> are doing.

I am not offended at all. I am grateful.

As a person who once tried to commit suicide i can tell you

> i wanted the easy way out as i didn't have the energy to deal

with

> all the work and challenges in this life. So i actually can see

great

> benefit in death.

I'm sorry you went though that. I would like to think that Sharon

is peaceful somewhere and having a good time and maybe is going to

get another chance at life. Maybe death will turn out to be a

benefit for all of us.

>

> " But what then comes up is a guilty feeling because her death is

> > benefitting me. I question why she couldn't have found " The

Work "

> > before she killed herself because then she may not have done

it.

> > This is linked into the fact that she was extremely unhappy and

> > hopeless. How do I know this? Happy, hopeful people don't

murder

> > themselves. I am unable to find beauty in this. "

>

> This whole paragraph also sound like something to question. Let me

ask

> you another question. Why/how can you honor her choice? Clearly you

> think she has made the wrong choice you think she should have found

> " The Work " or something else and should have worked on her

unhappiness

> so you wouldn't have to be left alone and wonder about why she did

it?

Selfish, isn't it, to want to go back and change her actions to make

myself feel better and not be left here alone? I can honor her

choice by thinking of her as being empowered and making a choice

that she wanted. But then a new thought creeps in. Before she did

it, she wrecked her whole house and destroyed many things. She was

clearly enraged. It's hard to honor her choice when it seems that

she went kicking and screaming to her suicide. Still her choice, I

know, but it wasn't a peaceful scene at all.

>

> Another thing i wanted to advise you is get help. This is a very

big

> issue and you probably need someone to hear you, probably a

> professional, especially since it's your identical twin. You're

going

> through grief and many other issues, you would benefit greatly from

> some counseling/facilitation.

I had been seeing an excellent therapist for over two years alresdy

at the time of Sharon's death. But just two months ago, my

therapist moved out of state and comes back once a month to see me.

She was stressing " practicing presence " at out last appointment

which, after exploring my library, I came to find .

There are so many questions to ask

> yourself and this can be a great opportunity to learn about

yourself.

> If you go through this process alone, it's very hard not to get

> dragged into self blame, judgment (of everybody involved),

accusations.

>

I have been firmly planted in that very place.

> I honor and admire the work you are doing. I hope you find your

peace.

Thank you, Rina, for all of this.

>

> LOVE

> Rina

Love,

Caren

[Guest guest]

>

> > But what then comes up is a guilty feeling because her death is

> > benefitting me. I question why she couldn't have found " The

Work "

> > before she killed herself because then she may not have done it.

>

> Why, the Work would have made her happy and hopeful? Wishful

thinking.

It may have. I guess that is part of my problem. I see in terms of

possibilities, not absolutes. So I think, " The Wok may have helped

her and therefore she may be alive right now. "

>

> > This is linked into the fact that she was extremely unhappy and

> > hopeless. How do I know this? Happy, hopeful people don't

murder

> > themselves. I am unable to find beauty in this.

>

> You were living an ignorant life. Now you have to find beauty - by

> force. How do you say that this benefits you?

> Would you need the medicine if there was no disease?

Where is the beauty. Can you see it????

>

> > I can determine that this thought is not useful to me and drop

it

> > but then it creeps back into my head. I am not sure what to do.

>

> You fight to drop it? Keep fighting- thoughts are more determinant

> than your determination.

I will keep fighting.

>

> nel

Love,

Caren

>

[Guest guest]

" Sharon shouldn't have killed herself. " I've come to see

> >>> that she should have killed herself because that is reality,

> >>> that is

> >>> what happened.

> >> Yes, it is.

> >>

> >> Not accepting that is hard.

> >> Eventually it is even impossible.

> > This is so true. It still seems like it is the suicide that is

so

> > hard. Not my thoughts about it.

> How many times did she try?

She tried once and succeeded.

>

> And how many times have you tried your way?

At least a million times

>

> So which one is harder?

My way.

>

> > But I know it has to be my thougths. I read where heard

the

> > news that she may have

> > cancer, and she laughed. She sees the beauty in it and that

> > it's " all good. " Does this mean she doesn't grieve or at least

get

> > sad?

> I can see how she wouldn't.

>

> What is there to grief but about lost opportunities?

>

> And how can I hope to enjoy my life in the future, if I cannot

even

> cope with the one now?

>

> The only opportunity I can ever loose is the one I have now.

I'm not fully enjoying life at all right now. I'm so sad all the

time.

>

> >>> I see that her sacrifice has benefitted me becuause

> >>> it has led me to this self-examination which has brought me a

> >>> measure of peace.

> >> Well, she probably did it because it was the only way she knew

to

> >> get some peace.

> >> That's why I would do it. To stop my thoughts.

> > Yes, it stopped her thoughts. Actually, I don't know if that's

true

> > (another disturbing thought I need to work on.) Even before I

heard

> > of " The Work, " I would have glimpses happiness for Sharon taking

> > control and doing what she wanted to do. This was something she

did

> > very much on her own terms.

> Yes, it was.

>

> But we should not be happy for someone taking his own decisions.

Not

> if they are against our religion.

>

> So much for free will.

>

> We don't believe in the free will of others, only in our own. ;-)

This is very true.

>

> We don't say: " Hey, Bill is executing his free will " . We rather

say:

> " What the heck is wrong with Bill? "

I question her decision every day. I just want her back. I know

it's futile.

>

> >> There's something about sacrifice... you know what it's like to

> >> sacrifice something. You've been there, haven't you?

> >> It is like giving something you hold dear and believing that you

> >> won't ever get it back. Something you think you need.

> >> And believing that you get something else in return. Something

> >> that

> >> is more valuable to you. But without really being convinced that

> >> you

> >> can do without the other.

> >>

> >> What your sister gave... seems to be something irreversibly

lost.

> >> She gave her life.

> >>

> >> Who is sacrificing yours?

> > I am sacrificing mine.

> Good. You found the one responsible, now you can make her stop.

I want to stop sacrficing mine.

>

> > I know I've also " killed " her hundreds of

> > times in my mind thinking about it. She suicided in a very

violent

> > manner and combined three methods to ensure her death.

> Well, she was determined and successful.

That used to be one of her good qualities ; ) haha.

>

> > She was a

> > pain psychologist and knew from being in the medical community

that

> > not all suicides are successful and can result in states of

> > disability that some would consider worse than death. Especially

> > if life was bad enough to kill yourself in the first place.

Anyway,

> > the image is disturbing to me. Almost like I can't get it out

of my

> > head. I don't want to sacrifice my life.

> Of course not.

>

> You don't have to. You've done it long enough.

>

> >>> But what then comes up is a guilty feeling because her death is

> >>> benefitting me.

> >> What was it that you said, did or thought, that pushed her to do

> >> it?

> >> Can you find something?

> > No, I can't find anything. Thank you for this.

> Thank you for really looking.

>

> >>> I question why she couldn't have found " The Work "

> >>> before she killed herself because then she may not have done

it.

> >> That's a good one.

> >>

> >>> This is linked into the fact that she was extremely unhappy and

> >>> hopeless.

> >>

> >>> How do I know this?

> >> Yes, what is your proof? Before we can examine it, we must look

> >> at

> >> it. Best to write it down, so that we don't forget what it is we

> >> are

> >> examining. And to have something to get back to, if mind wanders

> >> off.

O.K. Here goes:

" Sharon was extremely unhappy and hopeless. "

Is it true? Yes.

Can I really know it to be true? Here's where I get stuck. She

said she was unhappy and she acted unhappy. It seems true.

> >>> Happy, hopeful people don't murder themselves.

> >> This is a fact. Something you know.

> >> Sounds like a religion to me.

> > I'm not certain what you mean by " religion. "

> A religion is something I believe in, without having a proof.

> If I do have a proof it becomes a fact.

> And if I know it's not true, then it's a lie.

I can't seem to get past this. It is true that happy, hopeful

people don't kill themselves. I cannot conceive of a happy, hopeful

person killing themselves.

>

> So far, none of my former so valuable proofs withstood inquiry.

>

> > I guess my

> > culture/American velues indoctrinated this into me,

> Ok, so who would you be without their story?

A less-stressed person who would nonetheless feel that I wasn't

facing reality. I feel like I really can't see what is so clear to

you that are enlightened.

>

> > but it sure

> > makes sense. I don't know of anyone that was so utterly happy

they

> > killed themselves.

> Ever heard of these suicide-massacres of some sects?

They just think they are happy and hopeful. They are in fact

brainwashed.

>

> > And she acted unhappy most of her life.

> It does make sense, that's why it is so convincing. And can you

> really know that?

>

> It's just inquiry. How would you live with her suicide, if you

knew

> she did it out of happyness?

Like a less-stressed liar. She wan't happy. Am I frustrating you?

I don't want to. I want to join you in the realm of acceptance.

>

> >> You might have all evidence that that one is true.

> >>

> >> And who would you be without it, in this moment?

> >> Who would you be living your life, what would your life look

like,

> >> if

> >> you could never believe it again.

> > My life would be very different. I would be calm, less fearful.

I

> > would be happy for the good moments she did have and the good she

> > did in the world.

> Wouldn't that be much more like worshipping her? Doesn't it feel

much

> better to appreciate her beauty?

Yes. Much better.

>

> >>> I am unable to find beauty in this.

> >> As you know, that's because you argue with it.

> > Is this really right? I can't see it. I'm working on it, I just

> > can't see the beauty. Do you see the beauty in a suicide? (It's

> > okay if you say yes.)

> I see beauty in your love for your sister.

Thank you. I am touched.

>

> Can you?

Yes, I see it.

>

> Now when you have the thought: she shouldn't have killed herself...

>

> what about then?

I see beauty in my love for her and I am overwhelmingly sad that she

is gone.

>

> And it's ok if you don't. Just notice your answer.

>

> About the suicide...

>

> You say she was unhappy most of her life. How about the time

before

> her suicide?

> How was she? How did she live?

She was pretty unhappy most of her life but she had lots of good

times too, with friends and laughter.

>

> Can you acknowledge that for her death could have been the kinder

> choice? Out of her perspective?

Yes. I hope she is at peace. I am sure (?) that that is what she

wanted.

>

> As you say, she was very determined to get that right first-time.

>

> And I am not asking you to see any beauty in that act.

>

> >> Who would you be, thinking of your sister, if you could not

think

> >> that she was unhappy and hopeless?

> >> How would you see her?

> > I would see her as happy and hopeful. And this is where I get

> > completely stuck. She was unhappy. She said she was unhappy.

She

> > acted unhappy. I want to learn and I want to move past this but

> > this is where I get stuck. I need to work on it.

> On what do you want to work? That she was unhappy?

>

> Or maybe on your motive for her feeling better?

>

> Why do you want so much for her not to have lead an unhappy life?

> Pretty hopeless, I'd say.

> To make feel better yourself, isn't it?

Yes. And I wanted it for her. It's empathy. I am sad that she hurt.

>

> So, take the shortcut:

> who's business is it, when you are unhappy?

>

> Can you find a moment, when you were unhappy, and you did not

want

> anyone to change it?

> Do you remember how it felt, when you experienced how people

around

> you looked at you and got unhappy? Was it like you could read

their

> thoughts, know what they were thinking? About you? How did that

feel?

I wanted to wallow in my misery for a while.

>

> Did any of that help?

Yes, this all helps. Thank you.

>

> And who's business is her unhappyness?

Hers. But if I saw someone bleeding, I would want to help them

before they died. I know, I can't help them if they've already died.

>

> >> How would you remember her, if you could never ever believe

again

> >> that she had one single moment in her life in which she was not

> >> totally happy?

> >> How would that feel?

> > I would feel great

> Good. Remember that feeling.

I will.

>

> > but she had a very sad existence. I feel like

> > I'm trying to trick myself into not seeing the " real " reality.

I'm

> > not trying to be difficult.

> You are doing great.

Thank you.

>

> > I want to let go of this. Thank you

> > for helping me.

> You're welcome.

>

> No one is saying she didn't have a very sad existence. No one is

even

> doubting it. So, don't try to trick yourself (which isn't possible

in

> my experience).

>

> So look at the sad existence.

>

> Can you put it in numbers? How much of her life, according to

you,

> was sad, and how much was happy? This is just to see if ALL her

life

> was unhappy (a life, that you would like her to continue, when

you

> believe that she shouldn't have killed herself, by the way).

Thank you for this. She was 90% unhappy. I don't know why I would

want her to continue that life. I guess death was a blessing to her.

>

> >>> I can determine that this thought

> >> which one, exactly?

> > That her suicide was preventable. That she could be alive right

now.

> She could be alive right now in your thoughts, as well. But I

hear

> you prefer to believe the story that she killed herself

unnecessarily.

You're right. I need to keep the good parts alive. She helped a

lot of people in her practice and donated money to good causes. She

wanted to dom good.

>

> I am not sure, but I'd say you save the " she killed herself - is

that

> true? " for later.

I will. Thanks.

>

>

> >>> is not useful to me and drop it

> >>> but then it creeps back into my head.

> >> The thought comes to pass, not to stay. When it comes, and you

try

> >> to

> >> push it away, you'll notice some kind of pain.

> >> That's a gentle reminder that your work is not yet done.

> >>

> >>> I am not sure what to do.

> >> Is that true? ;-)

I don't know but I will fill up a notbook trying to figure it

out. : )

> >>

> >> When was it, ever? Can you find that place?

I will work on it.

> >>

> >>> Thank you in advance for your help.

> >> Thank you again for asking.

> >>

> >>

> > Love,

> > Caren

> you are being very brave. Thank you for that.

Thank you. Off to my notebook...

>

> Love,

>

Love,

Caren

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Vivian,

Thank you for your help.

It seems like sees beauty in some of the most awful things. I

wonder what I am missing when I don't. I do need to honor and

accept Sharon's decision. When I think that thought it makes me

feel less brokenhearted about it.

If I accepted her decision I think I would feel sad for her pain

that she endured but less scared and saddened about the act.

Thank you.

Love,

Caren

>

> Caren,

>

> Is it really necessary for you to find beauty in your sister's

death? Isn't it enough to find acceptance? It may seem wrong to you

(and to me) for her to commit suicide. But that was the decision she

made. Perhaps one needs to honor and accept her decision.

>

> How do we know it was right for Sharon? Because she did it. And

from your description, she was obviously committed to doing it and

intent upon succeeding. What would your life be like if you accepted

her decision?

>

> Vivian

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Dear Caren,

>

> Am 16.09.2007 um 01:47 schrieb carenrago@...:

>

> > Dear ,

> >

> > Wow. Thank you to you and everyone who is helping me with

this.

> > And especially thank you for being kind and gentle.

> You are so welcome.

>

> > I do want to honor Sharon and I do want to know the truth.

> thank you for that.

>

> > But I do feel like I have a lot of work to do because I have

lots

> > and lots of angry, hurt, confused, fearful, and panicky

thoughts

> > surrounding this. I have a new notebook and plan to work a lot

to

> > work through all of this, even if it takes my lifetime.

> How many thoughts come up at a time?

Maybe 5 or 10 thoughts at a time.

>

> If a thought comes up, and I am hurt in any way, I know I believe

a

> thought that is not true.

> It'll leave, and come back.

>

> Until I investigate it.

>

> After that, it won't even matter if it comes back.

>

> Every thought is welcome, now.

You welcome every thought??? How long have you been doing this? : )

>

> > I know this can't be true (Actually, I don't know. I'm

confused.)

> > but there are so many complicating factors to all of this.

> yes.

>

> > One is that at the time of her death, I had been in therapy for

two

> > years dealing with, among other things, post traumatic stress

> > disorder and anxiety and depression stemming from severe

bystander

> > abuse.

> So, could you point me to the complicate part?

OK, the complicated part. PTSD causes triggers. Her suicide

triggered the heck out of me. The way my doc describes it is that

the thougths bypass cognition and go straight to panic. So

sometimes I panic with no thought attached to it. There are also

flashbacks. This is being somewhat managed with meds at this time

but I would eventually like to get off them.

> > My mother severely abused my oldest sister and she is brain

damaged

> > and crippled as a result.

> That's what people around you say, and it's the doctors diagnose.

And

> is it true?

Yes, she is crippled and brain damaged. Any person walking by her

would tell you the same thing.

>

> > We younger siblings were required to clap and cheer as she was

> > beated, tied up, etc., etc.

> How was that required? What alternate choice did you have?

It hurts to be asked this. We could have not clapped and cheered

and gotten the beating ourselves. We chose this alternative on

occassion. This was so painful to realize years later that we could

have stopped our mother. I may have been killed in the process but

I could have done it. I did choose not to intervene more (Or I

should say my child-self chose not to intertvene more). I wanted

food, shelter, love (?), and no beatings so I chose to stand by and

let it happen. I will forever and always feel consumed by guilt

because of this. Sharon never resolved this for herself. My doc

says six-year-old children are not capable of making decisions

regarding this ...that the size and cognitive differences are too

great between adults and children...but I'm not there yet.

>

> > I know that Sharon's suicide was a direct result of this, or at

> > least began the downhill slide.

> I hear you don't know it was a direct result.

Like the butterfly who flaps his wing and a hurricaine results,

without this, a different chain of events would have resulted.

>

> > She never got over the clapping and cheering part.

> How can you tell if you " got over " that? What's your reference?

I've gotten over something if I can think about it without guilt or

sadness.

>

> > So her suicide started me back with some flashbacks and panic/

> > anxiety. I do believe her suicide was preventable.

> So... what's the line here? It was preventable, and if it was,

you

> should have done something about it?

Yes.

>

> And I hear your sister was a trained psychologist. She would have

> known who to ask for help, wouldn't she?

It is taboo in the industry to seek help. Those who seek help are

considered weaker ot " failures. "

>

> > (That's why they have suicide prevention hotlines, right?

Because

> > suicide is preventable.)

> They have these phone numbers you can call. You get someone to

talk

> with you. And you may not kill yourself. I don't know if they

have

> less suicides with these lines. And I think they do.

Statistically, suicide is preventable.

>

> > Also, she was a prominent psychologist. I guess in my skewed

> > thoughts, I always thought she was somehow protected. She had

> > access to all the resources.

> Yes, she had. And yet she did what she did.

>

Yes.

> > Also, every mean thing I ever did to her as a child has come

back

> > to haunt me. Would " this " or " that " have stopped the dominoes

from

> > falling in this direction?

> Do these one at a time. Write down these mean things.

I'm working on it. Thank you.

>

> Write your sister a letter of apology, and say how you would like

to

> count up for it.

I will. Good advice. Thank you.

>

> > O.K., enough. Please know I'm grateful for all of your help.

> I hear you.

>

> > Love,

> > Caren

> Love,

>

Love,

Caren

[Guest guest]

Hi Caren,

I remember doing the Work with someone years ago who had experienced a

horrific event that happened to a member of his family. She said, The murder

happened one time. But each time you go over it in your mind it occurs again.

Each time you relive the suicide or think of ways it could have been prevented

you bring it back to life again. I realize it must be incredibly difficult to

let it go. Hopefully through the Work you will be able to do just that and if

you cannot bring peace to your sister, perhaps you will be able to bring it to

yourself.

Vivian

Can someone assist me with the work I

am doing?

>

>

> Hello everyone,

>

> I am glad I found this group and I am glad I found Byron .

I

> am very new at this and was wondering if someone could assist me

> with the place where I am stuck.

>

> In February, my identical twin sister, Sharon, committed

suicide. I

> have a lot of The Work to do surrounding this but I have worked

> through " Sharon shouldn't have killed herself. " I've come to see

> that she should have killed herself because that is reality,

that is

> what happened. I see that her sacrifice has benefitted me

becuause

> it has led me to this self-examination which has brought me a

> measure of peace.

>

> But what then comes up is a guilty feeling because her death is

> benefitting me. I question why she couldn't have found " The

Work "

> before she killed herself because then she may not have done it.

> This is linked into the fact that she was extremely unhappy and

> hopeless. How do I know this? Happy, hopeful people don't murder

> themselves. I am unable to find beauty in this.

>

> I can determine that this thought is not useful to me and drop

it

> but then it creeps back into my head. I am not sure what to do.

>

> Thank you in advance for your help.

>

> Kindly,

> Caren

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Caren,

Am 17.09.2007 um 16:48 schrieb adoptivemomx2:

>

>>

>>>> But what then comes up is a guilty feeling because her death is

>>>> benefitting me

>>> Doesn't look from here as if her death is benefitting you.

>> Right, coming to think about that...

>>

>> you think you might be guilty of all the nice things you are

>> experiencing through what she did? What exactly was it you are

>> benefitting? I hear " shame " and " guilt " ... thoughts creeping

>> around

>> in your head, experiencing this feeling of not knowing what to

>> do...

>> So that's what peace sounds like, according to you?

>>

>> Oh well...

>>

>> Come again, what exactly are you guilty of?

> I'm not guilty of anything.

Good to know, isn't it?

> And they are not peaceful thoughts. I

> am just so sad she's gone and I'm so sad she chose suicide. It

> would have been so much easier if she had died in a car accident.

Is that true?

> There are such taboos in our society around suicide.

Turn that around.

>>> And if it has brought you to self-examination and a measure of

>>> peace, wouldn't that make your twin sister happy? She'd probably

>>> be

>>> glad to know that her death resulted in something positive at

>>> least

>>> for you and at least some of the time.

>> I don't think you need to replace your story with another one.

>> Yours is as good.

>>> Also, even if Sharon had found the Work, can you really know

>>> that

>>> she would not have committed suicide anyway? What do you get out

>>> of

>>> thinking, " If Sharon had found the Work she would not have

>>> committed suicide? "

>> Well, *I* get to blame her for what she did. I find a place to

>> express my anger towards what she did.

> I am angry. I do blame her. Her act led to a LOT of pain and

> sadness.

Yes. Don't try to hide your anger.

>>> What would your life be like if you dropped that thought?

> It would be peaceful.

good to know.

> But than I feel like I am in la-la land...

oh, you are not asked to drop the thought.

Just notice what that would be like.

> not

> facing reality (or at least possibility). I am getting frustrated

> with myself that I cannot see this the way that will bring me peace.

Oh, you can, didn't you realize? It just isn't for long, because you

still hang on to that thought.

Love,

[Guest guest]

Dear Caren,

Am 17.09.2007 um 16:42 schrieb adoptivemomx2:

> Dear Vivian,

>

> Thank you for helping.

>

> Yes, I would like to think that she would be happy for me doing this

> work. No, I cannot know that she wouldn't have committed suicide

> anyway even is she had found The Work. That is my fantasy because I

> am trying to go back and fix it and make it so that she didn't have

> to kill herself. I want to go back and make her not hurt and make

> it so that she could have enjoyed her life.

> I do know this is futile.

Good that you noticed.

Look, what is not futile: turn the above paragraph around and put

yourself where you mention her. See if other turnarounds fit, as well.

> It just seems to run on a loop over and over again. I know

> The Work can help me.

>

> I do hope her pain has ceased.

And turn that one around, as well.

> Thank you.

> Love,

> Caren

Love,

>

>

>>

>> But what then comes up is a guilty feeling because her death is

>> benefitting me

>>

>> Doesn't look from here as if her death is benefitting you. And if

> it has brought you to self-examination and a measure of peace,

> wouldn't that make your twin sister happy? She'd probably be glad to

> know that her death resulted in something positive at least for you

> and at least some of the time.

>>

>> Also, even if Sharon had found the Work, can you really know that

> she would not have committed suicide anyway? What do you get out of

> thinking, " If Sharon had found the Work she would not have committed

> suicide? " What would your life be like if you dropped that thought?

>>

>> I don't think it is necessary to find beauty in anything

> surrounding suicide. But perhaps her pain has ceased.

>>

>> I hope this helps a little.

>>

>> Vivian

>> Can someone assist me with the work I

> am doing?

>>

>>

>> Hello everyone,

>>

>> I am glad I found this group and I am glad I found Byron .

> I

>> am very new at this and was wondering if someone could assist me

>> with the place where I am stuck.

>>

>> In February, my identical twin sister, Sharon, committed

> suicide. I

>> have a lot of The Work to do surrounding this but I have worked

>> through " Sharon shouldn't have killed herself. " I've come to see

>> that she should have killed herself because that is reality,

> that is

>> what happened. I see that her sacrifice has benefitted me

> becuause

>> it has led me to this self-examination which has brought me a

>> measure of peace.

>>

>> But what then comes up is a guilty feeling because her death is

>> benefitting me. I question why she couldn't have found " The

> Work "

>> before she killed herself because then she may not have done it.

>> This is linked into the fact that she was extremely unhappy and

>> hopeless. How do I know this? Happy, hopeful people don't murder

>> themselves. I am unable to find beauty in this.

>>

>> I can determine that this thought is not useful to me and drop

> it

>> but then it creeps back into my head. I am not sure what to do.

>>

>> Thank you in advance for your help.

>>

>> Kindly,

>> Caren

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>