Re: Can someone assist me with the work I am doing?

September 18, 2007

>

> Hi Caren,

>

> I remember doing the Work with someone years ago who had

experienced a horrific event that happened to a member of his

family. She said, The murder happened one time. But each time you go

over it in your mind it occurs again. Each time you relive the

suicide or think of ways it could have been prevented you bring it

back to life again. I realize it must be incredibly difficult to let

it go. Hopefully through the Work you will be able to do just that

and if you cannot bring peace to your sister, perhaps you will be

able to bring it to yourself.

>

> Vivian

Dear Caren,

Just to add on to what Vivian has said, also suggests that we

do not and actually can't " let go " of our thoughts. It is the

thoughts that let go of us, once we have come to accept and love

them for what they are, just thoughts, nothing we need to control,

but somethings so precious and enlightening to understand.

It's been helpful to hear her speak of thoughts as children,

sometimes troubled and misguided, who appear to us as they will, and

we become the loving parent who gently questions them until they

resolve and ebb away. But we don't need to force our thoughts to do

anything or try to control them, just meet them with love and

understanding. I think some of the other posts here are tremendously

helpful in seeing the purpose and potential beauty of these

thoughts, no matter how troubling.

This approach has helped me because no matter how I've tried

sometimes, I have not been able to let go of certain thoughts-- not

through concerted self-effort, meditation, awareness practice, etc.

I am still working on grasping the nondualistic perspective that

life does not happen to us, but for us; and also that we are being

thought rather than thinking these thoughts. Perhaps when we do not

own the thoughts but meet them and question them, there is space for

peace to arrive. Along with all the other emotions that may come,

such as sadness due to the loss of someone beloved, etc.

There is a wonderful video on YouTube with a man whose niece

died, I think the title is about his sister not being able to get

over the death. To see his love under the sadness was so helpful and

moving to me.

In solidarity,

Cori

September 18, 2007

pscyhiatrists and pscyhologists have the highest

suicide rate of any profession.. and its becuase

in my opinion it doesnt work..

though i know there are good ones out there.. too..

the book..

pscyhiatry ultimate betrayal.. might be interesting

to you or not.. -

Well she did her best.. we all do the best we can..

Her spirit is living on.. im sure.. my story i know..

She maybe watching over you and benefiting from your work..

And they say angels are always wanting to help us but if we

dont ask they cant because we all have free will.. ask for

her help.. when doing your work.. is my suggestion..

maybe she is helped by you and vice versa..

love, roslyn

-- In Loving-what-is , carenrago@... wrote:

>

> Dear ,

>

> Wow. Thank you to you and everyone who is helping me with this.

And especially thank you for being kind and gentle. I do want to

honor Sharon and I do want to know the truth. But I do feel like I

have a lot of work to do because I have lots and lots of angry, hurt,

confused, fearful, and panicky thoughts surrounding this. I have a

new notebook and plan to work a lot to work through all of this, even

if it takes my lifetime.

>

> I know this can't be true (Actually, I don't know. I'm confused.)

but there are so many complicating factors to all of this. One is

that at the time of her death, I had been in therapy for two years

dealing with, among other things, post traumatic stress disorder and

anxiety and depression stemming from severe bystander abuse. My

mother severely abused my oldest sister and she is brain damaged and

crippled as a result. We younger siblings were required to clap and

cheer as she was beated, tied up, etc., etc. I know that Sharon's

suicide was a direct result of this, or at least began the downhill

slide. She never got over the clapping and cheering part. So her

suicide started me back with some flashbacks and panic/anxiety. I do

believe her suicide was preventable. (That's why they have suicide

prevention hotlines, right? Because suicide is preventable.)

>

> Also, she was a prominent psychologist. I guess in my skewed

thoughts, I always thought she was somehow protected. She had access

to all the resources.

>

> Also, every mean thing I ever did to her as a child has come back to

haunt me. Would " this " or " that " have stopped the dominoes from

falling in this direction?

>

> O.K., enough. Please know I'm grateful for all of your help.

>

> Love,

> Caren

>

> -------------- Original message --------------

>

> Dear Caren,

>

> I feel touched by your request. Thank you for asking for support in

> what must be a very tough time...

>

> And I hear a lot of love coming from you.

>

> I hear you want to honor her, despite of all the confusion you are

> experiencing.

>

> And that you want to know the truth.

>

> I'd love to assist you with the work you are doing. You sound very

> brave.

>

> Love,

>

> Am 13.09.2007 um 17:17 schrieb adoptivemomx2:

>

> > Hello everyone,

> >

> > I am glad I found this group and I am glad I found Byron . I

> > am very new at this and was wondering if someone could assist me

> > with the place where I am stuck.

> >

> > In February, my identical twin sister, Sharon, committed suicide. I

> > have a lot of The Work to do surrounding this but I have worked

> > through " Sharon shouldn't have killed herself. " I've come to see

> > that she should have killed herself because that is reality, that is

> > what happened.

> > I see that her sacrifice has benefitted me becuause

> > it has led me to this self-examination which has brought me a

> > measure of peace.

> >

> > But what then comes up is a guilty feeling because her death is

> > benefitting me. I question why she couldn't have found " The Work "

> > before she killed herself because then she may not have done it.

> > This is linked into the fact that she was extremely unhappy and

> > hopeless. How do I know this? Happy, hopeful people don't murder

> > themselves. I am unable to find beauty in this.

> >

> > I can determine that this thought is not useful to me and drop it

> > but then it creeps back into my head. I am not sure what to do.

> >

> > Thank you in advance for your help.

> >

> > Kindly,

> > Caren

>

September 18, 2007

> > > But what then comes up is a guilty feeling because her death is

> > > benefitting me. I question why she couldn't have found " The

> Work "

> > > before she killed herself because then she may not have done it.

> >

> > Why, the Work would have made her happy and hopeful? Wishful

> thinking.

> It may have. I guess that is part of my problem. I see in terms of

> possibilities, not absolutes. So I think, " The Wok may have helped

> her and therefore she may be alive right now. "

You mentioned in another post of yours The butterfly effect..

You have tried to change. Interesting... You are at the same place.

Maybe a butterfly does not make a difference.

> > > This is linked into the fact that she was extremely unhappy and

> > > hopeless. How do I know this? Happy, hopeful people don't

> murder

> > > themselves. I am unable to find beauty in this.

> > You were living an ignorant life. Now you have to find beauty - by

> > force. How do you say that this benefits you?

> > Would you need the medicine if there was no disease?

> Where is the beauty. Can you see it????

I would say...

It is not you who is dead.

On another note-

I am just watching Nip/Tuck on TV and there is mention of " negative

space " . " The beauty of what's missing " ...Ofcourse that character who

believed in it had psychological disfunction .

> > > I can determine that this thought is not useful to me and drop

> it

> > > but then it creeps back into my head. I am not sure what to do.

> > You fight to drop it? Keep fighting- thoughts are more determinant

> > than your determination.

>

> I will keep fighting.

Oh no:) that's not what I mean- it is the " phrase experiment of that

moment " and now it seems that it is no go.(oh well). i mean rather

that you will keep fighting your thoughts till kingdom come because

you are in your thought.

nel

September 19, 2007

Dear Sharon,

Am 17.09.2007 um 17:41 schrieb adoptivemomx2:

>>>>> " Sharon shouldn't have killed herself. " I've come to see

>>>>> that she should have killed herself because that is reality,

>>>>> that is

>>>>> what happened.

>>>> Yes, it is.

>>>> Not accepting that is hard.

>>>> Eventually it is even impossible.

>>> This is so true. It still seems like it is the suicide that is

>>> so

>>> hard. Not my thoughts about it.

>> How many times did she try?

> She tried once and succeeded.

>> And how many times have you tried your way?

> At least a million times

>> So which one is harder?

> My way.

Looks like you got that one straight.

>>> But I know it has to be my thougths. I read where heard

>>> the

>>> news that she may have

>>> cancer, and she laughed. She sees the beauty in it and that

>>> it's " all good. " Does this mean she doesn't grieve or at least

>>> get

>>> sad?

>> I can see how she wouldn't.

>> What is there to grief but about lost opportunities?

>>

>> And how can I hope to enjoy my life in the future, if I cannot

>> even

>> cope with the one now?

>>

>> The only opportunity I can ever loose is the one I have now.

> I'm not fully enjoying life at all right now. I'm so sad all the

> time.

Yes. Write that down. Even if you don't do the work on it, now, it

can be interesting to look at it at another time.

To see what's left.

>>>>> I see that her sacrifice has benefitted me becuause

>>>>> it has led me to this self-examination which has brought me a

>>>>> measure of peace.

>>>> Well, she probably did it because it was the only way she knew

> to

>>>> get some peace.

>>>> That's why I would do it. To stop my thoughts.

>>> Yes, it stopped her thoughts. Actually, I don't know if that's

> true

>>> (another disturbing thought I need to work on.) Even before I

> heard

>>> of " The Work, " I would have glimpses happiness for Sharon taking

>>> control and doing what she wanted to do. This was something she

> did

>>> very much on her own terms.

>> Yes, it was.

>>

>> But we should not be happy for someone taking his own decisions.

> Not

>> if they are against our religion.

>>

>> So much for free will.

>>

>> We don't believe in the free will of others, only in our own. ;-)

> This is very true.

>

>> We don't say: " Hey, Bill is executing his free will " . We rather

>> say:

>> " What the heck is wrong with Bill? "

> I question her decision every day. I just want her back. I know

> it's futile.

So, imagine you get her back.

What then?

What is it you could do if you got her back that you can not do, now?

What is it you would experience? And find out where that comes from.

She's dead. Is that true?

And I am not suggesting that she is not dead.

Just where is the proof? How do you know, NOW, that she's dead? Apart

from memory (Do you even have memory as your proof? Did you see her

dead?)

When I did this work my proof was that I could not call him, meet him

and that I would never see him again. And I noticed that I felt for

friends whom I thought I would never see again the same grief. So I

questioned: " You won't ever see him again. - Is that true? " and " He

won't ever talk to you again " and " You need his advice, NOW " and I

found that these were not even true for me.

So look at that part where the grief is, and find your truth.

And also look at the difference between: " she's dead " and " she's

shopping " .

Because when my beloved left the room and are not on the phone, I

have no information whatsoever on their life status. For all I know

they could be dead, but I feel jolly, until I get notice. That's when

the thoughts start to kick in.

>>>> There's something about sacrifice... you know what it's like to

>>>> sacrifice something. You've been there, haven't you?

>>>> It is like giving something you hold dear and believing that you

>>>> won't ever get it back. Something you think you need.

>>>> And believing that you get something else in return. Something

>>>> that

>>>> is more valuable to you. But without really being convinced that

>>>> you

>>>> can do without the other.

>>>>

>>>> What your sister gave... seems to be something irreversibly

>>>> lost.

>>>> She gave her life.

>>>>

>>>> Who is sacrificing yours?

>>> I am sacrificing mine.

>> Good. You found the one responsible, now you can make her stop.

> I want to stop sacrficing mine.

Yes, I hear you.

You have just started. And you are doing a great job! :-)

>>> I know I've also " killed " her hundreds of

>>> times in my mind thinking about it. She suicided in a very

>>> violent

>>> manner and combined three methods to ensure her death.

>> Well, she was determined and successful.

> That used to be one of her good qualities ;-) haha.

;-)

>>> She was a

>>> pain psychologist and knew from being in the medical community

>>> that

>>> not all suicides are successful and can result in states of

>>> disability that some would consider worse than death. Especially

>>> if life was bad enough to kill yourself in the first place.

>>> Anyway,

>>> the image is disturbing to me. Almost like I can't get it out

>>> of my

>>> head. I don't want to sacrifice my life.

>> Of course not.

>> You don't have to. You've done it long enough.

>>>>> But what then comes up is a guilty feeling because her death is

>>>>> benefitting me.

>>>> What was it that you said, did or thought, that pushed her to do

>>>> it?

>>>> Can you find something?

>>> No, I can't find anything. Thank you for this.

>> Thank you for really looking.

>>>>> I question why she couldn't have found " The Work "

>>>>> before she killed herself because then she may not have done

>>>>> it.

>>>> That's a good one.

>>>>

>>>>> This is linked into the fact that she was extremely unhappy and

>>>>> hopeless.

>>>>

>>>>> How do I know this?

>>>> Yes, what is your proof? Before we can examine it, we must look

>>>> at

>>>> it. Best to write it down, so that we don't forget what it is we

>>>> are

>>>> examining. And to have something to get back to, if mind wanders

>>>> off.

>

> O.K. Here goes:

>

> " Sharon was extremely unhappy and hopeless. "

>

> Is it true? Yes.

>

> Can I really know it to be true? Here's where I get stuck. She

> said she was unhappy and she acted unhappy. It seems true.

So, she said she was unhappy and she acted unhappy.

Do you know any person that you've met in you whole life that never

looked unhappy and never acted unhappy?

You've got yourself a definition for Sharon: The unhappy one.

So her frequency of unhappyness may be of a certain level - the way

you perceive it. And can you absolutely know that she was unhappy all

the time you think she was unhappy?

Who were you, if you could not believe that she was happy ALL the

time you think of her being unhappy? Could you have been mistaken

only once, when you thought of her as being unhappy? Do you maybe

even know of one time?

How does THAT feel?

She's not unhappy now. And look how you see her, when you close your

eyes.

So ask yourself: who is better at being unhappy? Who is the master of

being unhappy? You're unhappy even after she's over with it.

Look at the laughing woman she could be, now. In your mind. In your

heart. How does that make you feel?

Look at the two women: the sad, crying, unhappy one. And the laughing

one, enjoying life.

Let her be happy, now.

>>>>> Happy, hopeful people don't murder themselves.

>>>> This is a fact. Something you know.

>>>> Sounds like a religion to me.

>>> I'm not certain what you mean by " religion. "

>> A religion is something I believe in, without having a proof.

>> If I do have a proof it becomes a fact.

>> And if I know it's not true, then it's a lie.

> I can't seem to get past this. It is true that happy, hopeful

> people don't kill themselves. I cannot conceive of a happy, hopeful

> person killing themselves.

Don't bother with proof for the opposite, yet.

Let's see... do you know a person that's been happy and hopeful all

her life?

How do you recognize a person that's happy and hopeful?

>> So far, none of my former so valuable proofs withstood inquiry.

>>> I guess my

>>> culture/American velues indoctrinated this into me,

>> Ok, so who would you be without their story?

> A less-stressed person who would nonetheless feel that I wasn't

> facing reality. I feel like I really can't see what is so clear to

> you that are enlightened.

So let's look at that story. What is it that was indoctrinated?

And I don't see myself as any more enlightened than you.

>>> but it sure

>>> makes sense. I don't know of anyone that was so utterly happy

>>> they

>>> killed themselves.

>> Ever heard of these suicide-massacres of some sects?

> They just think they are happy and hopeful. They are in fact

> brainwashed.

Well, lucky we have *you* to tell us the difference!

:-)

>>> And she acted unhappy most of her life.

>> It does make sense, that's why it is so convincing. And can you

>> really know that?

>> It's just inquiry. How would you live with her suicide, if you

>> knew

>> she did it out of happyness?

> Like a less-stressed liar. She wasn't happy. Am I frustrating you?

> I don't want to. I want to join you in the realm of acceptance.

No, I appreciate your honesty.

I'd like to see your answers to the above, before we go on, here.

>>>> You might have all evidence that that one is true.

>>>>

>>>> And who would you be without it, in this moment?

>>>> Who would you be living your life, what would your life look

>>>> like,

>>>> if

>>>> you could never believe it again.

>>> My life would be very different. I would be calm, less fearful.

>>> I

>>> would be happy for the good moments she did have and the good she

>>> did in the world.

>> Wouldn't that be much more like worshipping her? Doesn't it feel

>> much

>> better to appreciate her beauty?

> Yes. Much better.

I am going there, because I'd like to see whether it is about that

she's gone, or about her happyness.

>>>>> I am unable to find beauty in this.

>>>> As you know, that's because you argue with it.

>>> Is this really right? I can't see it. I'm working on it, I just

>>> can't see the beauty. Do you see the beauty in a suicide? (It's

>>> okay if you say yes.)

>> I see beauty in your love for your sister.

> Thank you. I am touched.

>> Can you?

> Yes, I see it.

Wonderful.

>> Now when you have the thought: she shouldn't have killed herself...

>> what about then?

> I see beauty in my love for her and I am overwhelmingly sad that she

> is gone.

And do you see a difference in this sadness to the other?

>> And it's ok if you don't. Just notice your answer.

>> About the suicide...

>> You say she was unhappy most of her life. How about the time

>> before

>> her suicide?

>> How was she? How did she live?

> She was pretty unhappy most of her life but she had lots of good

> times too, with friends and laughter.

Good. So what makes her life unhappy? A 60/40 ratio?

>> Can you acknowledge that for her death could have been the kinder

>> choice? Out of her perspective?

> Yes. I hope she is at peace. I am sure (?) that that is what she

> wanted.

As you said she was pretty determined. Doesn't look to me that she

was caught by surprise or chance.

Looks like her free will.

I think it's poweful.

>> As you say, she was very determined to get that right first-time.

>>

>> And I am not asking you to see any beauty in that act.

>>

>>>> Who would you be, thinking of your sister, if you could not

>>>> think

>>>> that she was unhappy and hopeless?

>>>> How would you see her?

>>> I would see her as happy and hopeful. And this is where I get

>>> completely stuck. She was unhappy. She said she was unhappy.

>>> She

>>> acted unhappy. I want to learn and I want to move past this but

>>> this is where I get stuck. I need to work on it.

>> On what do you want to work? That she was unhappy?

>>

>> Or maybe on your motive for her feeling better?

>>

>> Why do you want so much for her not to have lead an unhappy life?

>> Pretty hopeless, I'd say.

>> To make feel better yourself, isn't it?

> Yes. And I wanted it for her. It's empathy. I am sad that she hurt.

Turn that around.

Empathy doesn't hurt.

>> So, take the shortcut:

>> who's business is it, when you are unhappy?

>>

>> Can you find a moment, when you were unhappy, and you did not

>> want

>> anyone to change it?

>> Do you remember how it felt, when you experienced how people

>> around

>> you looked at you and got unhappy? Was it like you could read

>> their

>> thoughts, know what they were thinking? About you? How did that

>> feel?

> I wanted to wallow in my misery for a while.

Good to know.

You're like her.

>> Did any of that help?

> Yes, this all helps. Thank you.

You're welcome.

>> And who's business is her unhappyness?

> Hers. But if I saw someone bleeding, I would want to help them

> before they died. I know, I can't help them if they've already died.

Yes. And you can help them without suffering yourself. You know that.

You don't even have to believe that they hurt.

You can just help, because of love.

When the kid cries because it fell you don't panic. You know what to

do: you hold it, and embrace it, and hug it. You may even sing to

calm it. Because you know that there is no legitimate reason for it

to suffer.

And sometimes you forget that it's a kid that's crying.

You forget that it's the thoughts it's afraid of.

You forget that it doesn't have to suffer.

And you forget that these thoughts are not true for you.

That's when you suffer.

And call it compassion.

" look how much I care for you! I suffer when you suffer. I suffer

even more than you! That's because I love you. My pain proves my love

for you. I can not be happy, until you are. "

>>>> How would you remember her, if you could never ever believe

>>>> again

>>>> that she had one single moment in her life in which she was not

>>>> totally happy?

>>>> How would that feel?

>>> I would feel great

>> Good. Remember that feeling.

> I will.

>>> but she had a very sad existence. I feel like

>>> I'm trying to trick myself into not seeing the " real " reality.

>>> I'm

>>> not trying to be difficult.

>> You are doing great.

> Thank you.

>>> I want to let go of this. Thank you

>>> for helping me.

>> You're welcome.

>> No one is saying she didn't have a very sad existence. No one is

>> even

>> doubting it. So, don't try to trick yourself (which isn't possible

>> in

>> my experience).

>>

>> So look at the sad existence.

>>

>> Can you put it in numbers? How much of her life, according to

>> you,

>> was sad, and how much was happy? This is just to see if ALL her

>> life

>> was unhappy (a life, that you would like her to continue, when

>> you

>> believe that she shouldn't have killed herself, by the way).

> Thank you for this. She was 90% unhappy. I don't know why I would

> want her to continue that life. I guess death was a blessing to her.

Good to notice.

And we got a number down: she was 90/10 unhappy.

So can you absolutely know she was 90/10 unhappy? How would you feel

if she had been just a very little less unhappy, than you believe?

What if it was more?

And how much do you think you really know?

>>>>> I can determine that this thought

>>>> which one, exactly?

>>> That her suicide was preventable. That she could be alive right

>>> now.

>> She could be alive right now in your thoughts, as well. But I

>> hear

>> you prefer to believe the story that she killed herself

>> unnecessarily.

> You're right. I need to keep the good parts alive. She helped a

> lot of people in her practice and donated money to good causes. She

> wanted to dom good.

Good.

Turn that around.

>> I am not sure, but I'd say you save the " she killed herself - is

>> that

>> true? " for later.

> I will. Thanks.

>>>>> is not useful to me and drop it

>>>>> but then it creeps back into my head.

>>>> The thought comes to pass, not to stay. When it comes, and you

>>>> try

>>>> to

>>>> push it away, you'll notice some kind of pain.

>>>> That's a gentle reminder that your work is not yet done.

>>>>

>>>>> I am not sure what to do.

>>>> Is that true? ;-)

> I don't know but I will fill up a notbook trying to figure it

> out. : )

Very good! :-)

>>>> When was it, ever? Can you find that place?

> I will work on it.

>>>>> Thank you in advance for your help.

>>>> Thank you again for asking.

>>>>

>>> Love,

>>> Caren

>> you are being very brave. Thank you for that.

> Thank you. Off to my notebook...

you're welcome.

Good work.

Love,

September 20, 2007

Dear caren,

You wrote: " You fight to drop it? "

You can not " drop a thought " .

By " fighting to drop it " you only give it more energy and strengh.

By fighting to drop it, you are making it real and true.

What you resist will persist.

Your only choice is to understand the thought and once you understand

it, it will weaken and you will begin to perceive it differently.

I have not read any other emails on this subject, but I am assuming

that someone commited suicide and you have a story that they should

not have done that?? If that is the case, then you can do The Work

on " She should not have killed herself. "

Is that true?

Can you really know that that is true?

Can you know more than God?

My personal story is that everyone dies at the perfect time.

Whose business are you in when you are believing the story that " She

should not have killed herself. " ?

How does it make you feel when you believe that " She should not have

killed herself. " ?

Can you see a reason that you may wnat to drop this thought? And I

am not asking you to drop it.

Can you find a peaceful reason to argue with reality or " What Is " by

believing that thought?

Who would you be without that thought?

How would your life be different if you could never believe that

thought again?

Some possible turnarounds would be:

" She should have killed herself. " Is this as true or true than the

original thought?

" I should not kill myself with my thinking that " She should not have

killed herself. "

How many times did she commit suicide?

How many times have you hurt yourself with your thinking that " She

should not have killed herself. "

Ask yourself, " Did she kill herself? If the answer is yes, then any

believe that she should not have killed herself is " hopeless " . You

are arguing with reality and you lose and you lose and you lose.

Hope something is helpful here for you.

Blessings, Steve D.

> >

> > > But what then comes up is a guilty feeling because her death is

> > > benefitting me. I question why she couldn't have found " The

> Work "

> > > before she killed herself because then she may not have done

it.

> >

> > Why, the Work would have made her happy and hopeful? Wishful

> thinking.

>

> It may have. I guess that is part of my problem. I see in terms

of

> possibilities, not absolutes. So I think, " The Wok may have helped

> her and therefore she may be alive right now. "

>

> >

> > > This is linked into the fact that she was extremely unhappy and

> > > hopeless. How do I know this? Happy, hopeful people don't

> murder

> > > themselves. I am unable to find beauty in this.

> >

> > You were living an ignorant life. Now you have to find beauty - by

> > force. How do you say that this benefits you?

> > Would you need the medicine if there was no disease?

>

> Where is the beauty. Can you see it????

>

> >

> > > I can determine that this thought is not useful to me and drop

> it

> > > but then it creeps back into my head. I am not sure what to do.

> >

> > You fight to drop it? Keep fighting- thoughts are more determinant

> > than your determination.

>

> I will keep fighting.

> >

> > nel

> Love,

> Caren

> >

>

September 22, 2007

Just a quick note:

> Dear Vivian,

> Thank you for your help.

>

> It seems like sees beauty in some of the most awful things. I

> wonder what I am missing when I don't.

It seems like you see awe in the most beautiful things.

I wonder what you project onto them when you do.

That's what keeps you from seeing the beauty.

You are not missing anything. It's what you are adding that mixes up

the scenery.

> I do need to honor and

> accept Sharon's decision.

You see where it gets you, otherwise.

> When I think that thought it makes me feel less brokenhearted about

> it.

>

> If I accepted her decision

How could you not?

> I think I would feel sad for her pain that she endured but less

> scared and saddened about the act.

Oh, my! Now you even want to take her away her pain. Can't you leave

her anthing?

Even her final decision doesn't match up to your standards!

She did so well, can't you see that?

Love,

September 23, 2007

Dear Caren,

>>> " I see that her sacrifice has benefitted me becuause

>>> it has led me to this self-examination which has brought me a

>>> measure of peace. "

>> This sounds like the next belief to work on. This is clearly a

>> judgment statement rather then observation. Do you absolutely know

>> it's true she has sacrificed herself or is it your perception?

> No. I can't know that. Thank you for pointing this out.

If you want to do a work on it, I'd look for the simple judgement

here, like " Her suicide is helpful to me " .

It sure doesn't look to me like that, though. I don't hear you are

living a great life, full of happiness.

>> Why do you chose to see it this way?

> I don't know why I choose to see it this way. Maybe there is a part

> of me that wants to be punished.

" maybe " is slippery. Caren, you really want to be punished. Is that

really true?

> At conception, we were one cell.

> People talk about twins having the closest relatonship there is. We

> weren't even close enough to have her let me know her plans or give

> me an opportunity to help.

Well, that's how twin-life is supposed to be. That's the real thing.

For you. It's never what you hear someone say.

> I'm scared.

Yes. Can you get down from what?

Fear is a story of the future.

> We shared a bed until we

> were 7 and lived together until we were 20. And now I have to live

> the rest of my life without her.

Finally you get to do something on your own. You get to live.

Actually that's something very few people get to have.

> I'm just very sad. I get a good life and she didn't.

So let's blame ourselves.

You get a life full of being miserable, blaming yourself, sadness and

fear. As it is now.

I wonder: if that's the good life, ...?

As soon as an existence starts, it is already full and complete. No

one dies before his time.

Your sister even got to choose when and where. It's not that she

didn't see it coming.

But if it had been a car accident, for instance, your grief would

have been different, wouldn't it? You could still blame yourself for

not having got close enough to her, talked enough, seen her enough,

told her enough how much you loved her, etc. But it would have been

different.

That's the part to explore.

>> Why does her action have to be labeled?

> I guess I label all actions because it helps me try to make sense of

> things. I know...not working. : )

That's how mind works, it labels. Thoughts come up.

You just don't have to believe them.

>> I do not see how you benefited from her suicide, you are going

>> through

>> enormous pain, looking for ways to suffer, to understand her and

>> her

>> actions. Where is the benefit here? Are you referring to the fact

>> that

>> you have started self exploration process?

> Yes.

And what does that have to do with your sister?

>> As a person who once tried to commit suicide i can tell you

>> i wanted the easy way out as i didn't have the energy to deal

>> with

>> all the work and challenges in this life. So i actually can see

>> great

>> benefit in death.

> I'm sorry you went though that. I would like to think that Sharon

> is peaceful somewhere and having a good time and maybe is going to

> get another chance at life.

Yes. But you don't believe in that, do you?

So instead of worshipping a new belief, let's deal with the ones we

have, already.

And you would like for the universe to stop, move back a couple of

months, maybe to your childhood into a specific situation, so that

you could make a difference, that would turn the world and time a

much better place for everyone. For you, specifically. And it's ok to

see it that way and to believe what you do believe. Just get clear on

what price you want to pay for these beliefs.

> Maybe death will turn out to be a benefit for all of us.

Could be.

What is " death " , anyway?

>>> " But what then comes up is a guilty feeling because her death is

>>> benefitting me. I question why she couldn't have found " The

>>> Work "

>>> before she killed herself because then she may not have done

>>> it.

>>> This is linked into the fact that she was extremely unhappy and

>>> hopeless. How do I know this? Happy, hopeful people don't

>>> murder

>>> themselves. I am unable to find beauty in this. "

>> This whole paragraph also sound like something to question. Let me

>> ask

>> you another question. Why/how can you honor her choice? Clearly you

>> think she has made the wrong choice you think she should have found

>> " The Work " or something else and should have worked on her

>> unhappiness

>> so you wouldn't have to be left alone and wonder about why she did

>> it?

> Selfish, isn't it, to want to go back and change her actions to make

> myself feel better and not be left here alone?

That's what is commonly interpreted as " love " by some.

> I can honor her

> choice by thinking of her as being empowered and making a choice

> that she wanted.

Good. Can you? That would actually give her a life! Instead of being

something that must be controlled so that it makes the right decisions.

> But then a new thought creeps in. Before she did

> it, she wrecked her whole house and destroyed many things.

Looks like her choice, as well.

She didn't need these things anymore, anyway.

> She was

> clearly enraged. It's hard to honor her choice when it seems that

> she went kicking and screaming to her suicide.

That's not her, that's actually you.

> Still her choice, I

> know, but it wasn't a peaceful scene at all.

Because you are the instance we ask for what peace looks like.

She's kicking and screaming and throwing things around... that's

intense. She's really feeling herself! She is experiencing her body,

hearing her voice...

Most people actually take lots of drugs to get there.

She doesn't have to be careful what not to break, not to listen to a

concept of future. Just living in the moment, fully!

She is even wrecking her house! Lots of people become horrified only

at the thought that that could happen to their house.

It's a ritual. She is letting go of things. It's her way of packing.

And it does look different from yours.

So experience her last minutes the way you would want them: peaceful,

firm deciscion, even a ritual maybe. And ask yourself, if that's what

you would really want for her. In spite of her having preferred a

different way of leaving.

You think you can feel her pain. You can't. Never ever.

All the pain you get to experience is yours. And you don't have to

hurt physically to experience physical pain. But it's always your

pain. Her pain is not yours. It's hers.

If you want to experience this " my pain/your pain " thing a little

more: think of you getting the whole pain from both of you. She is

having a painless life. And here's the deal: No one will ever notice

that you took her pain, no one will ever know. You get to be full of

pain enough for two people's life. And there's no one to acknowledge,

or even notice or care for what you did.

Is that what you had in mind? Or was there a motive. Get clear on

your motives, because they are a tricky deal: you expect to get your

part, and if you don't, you blame the others.

>> Another thing i wanted to advise you is get help. This is a very

>> big

>> issue and you probably need someone to hear you, probably a

>> professional, especially since it's your identical twin. You're

>> going

>> through grief and many other issues, you would benefit greatly from

>> some counseling/facilitation.

> I had been seeing an excellent therapist for over two years alresdy

> at the time of Sharon's death. But just two months ago, my

> therapist moved out of state and comes back once a month to see me.

> She was stressing " practicing presence " at out last appointment

> which, after exploring my library, I came to find .

>

>> There are so many questions to ask

>> yourself and this can be a great opportunity to learn about

>> yourself.

>> If you go through this process alone, it's very hard not to get

>> dragged into self blame, judgment (of everybody involved),

>> accusations.

> I have been firmly planted in that very place.

Yes, you have lived that long enough, haven't you?

>> I honor and admire the work you are doing. I hope you find your

>> peace.

> Thank you, Rina, for all of this.

And thank you.

Love,

September 24, 2007

Dear Vivian,

Thank you for this. I have killed Sharon so many times in my mind. That

certainly wasn't my intent but I realize I have been doing it over and over and

over again. You have helped me.

My Best,

Caren

--------- Can someone assist me with the work I

am doing?

>

> Hello everyone,

>

> I am glad I found this group and I am glad I found Byron .

I

> am very new at this and was wondering if someone could assist me

> with the place where I am stuck.

>

> In February, my identical twin sister, Sharon, committed

suicide. I

> have a lot of The Work to do surrounding this but I have worked

> through " Sharon shouldn't have killed herself. " I've come to see

> that she should have killed herself because that is reality,

that is

> what happened. I see that her sacrifice has benefitted me

becuause

> it has led me to this self-examination which has brought me a

> measure of peace.

>

> But what then comes up is a guilty feeling because her death is

> benefitting me. I question why she couldn't have found " The

Work "

> before she killed herself because then she may not have done it.

> This is linked into the fact that she was extremely unhappy and

> hopeless. How do I know this? Happy, hopeful people don't murder

> themselves. I am unable to find beauty in this.

>

> I can determine that this thought is not useful to me and drop

it

> but then it creeps back into my head. I am not sure what to do.

>

> Thank you in advance for your help.

>

> Kindly,

> Caren

>

September 24, 2007

I'm so glad to help in a small way. It wasn't me, just me telling you what

has said many many times. We cause ourselves so very much pain and call it

something else. I called it mother and you called it suicide. The very same.

You are being absolutely tenacious in your search for health and well-being and

that will serve you well.

My husband really likes and respects Dr. Weil.

Vivian

Can someone assist me with the work I

am doing?

>

> Hello everyone,

>

> I am glad I found this group and I am glad I found Byron .

I

> am very new at this and was wondering if someone could assist me

> with the place where I am stuck.

>

> In February, my identical twin sister, Sharon, committed

suicide. I

> have a lot of The Work to do surrounding this but I have worked

> through " Sharon shouldn't have killed herself. " I've come to see

> that she should have killed herself because that is reality,

that is

> what happened. I see that her sacrifice has benefitted me

becuause

> it has led me to this self-examination which has brought me a

> measure of peace.

>

> But what then comes up is a guilty feeling because her death is

> benefitting me. I question why she couldn't have found " The

Work "

> before she killed herself because then she may not have done it.

> This is linked into the fact that she was extremely unhappy and

> hopeless. How do I know this? Happy, hopeful people don't murder

> themselves. I am unable to find beauty in this.

>

> I can determine that this thought is not useful to me and drop

it

> but then it creeps back into my head. I am not sure what to do.

>

> Thank you in advance for your help.

>

> Kindly,

> Caren

>

September 25, 2007

-------------- Original message --------------

Dear Caren,

>> Come again, what exactly are you guilty of?

> I'm not guilty of anything.

Good to know, isn't it?

It is good to know. I can feel myself changing. I feel more at peace even when

I wake up in the morning. That is when my feelings used to be the worst.

> And they are not peaceful thoughts. I

> am just so sad she's gone and I'm so sad she chose suicide. It

> would have been so much easier if she had died in a car accident.

Is that true?

It seems true to me. It is common, I understand, for those left by suicide to

have a more complicated time than with other deaths. A tragic accident is very

bad, but a self-inflicted death created a lot more feelings and thoughts to deal

with. A lot of " whys " that will never, never, ever be answered. At least I

know that it has been true for me. Also, if she had died of another cause, I

wouldn't have had the overwhelming feeling that I would (or should) also commit

suicide one day. They have found and named a suicide gene and learning about

that was devastating. The correlation of the second identical twin committing

suicide (even those identical twins separated at birth) is very high after one

twin commits suicide. I don't want to commit suicide but I do feel like I have

a ticking time bomb inside of me. I feel like one day I will do it, without

even wanting to, and inflict pain upon my children, husband and friends. This

thought is what wakes me up in the middle of the

night. So, yeah, it would have been easier to have her die in a different

manner.

> There are such taboos in our society around suicide.

Turn that around.

There are no taboos in our suicide around suicide. (???) Is that right?

I have taboos around suicide. Very true.

..

> I am angry. I do blame her. Her act led to a LOT of pain and

> sadness.

Yes. Don't try to hide your anger.

But I somehow feel like I'm not doing this work right because I do feel so many

bad feelings. I guess they will get less as I do more work. I do seem to have

a never-ending supply. ; )

> But than I feel like I am in la-la land...

oh, you are not asked to drop the thought.

Just notice what that would be like.

OK.

> not

> facing reality (or at least possibility). I am getting frustrated

> with myself that I cannot see this the way that will bring me peace.

Oh, you can, didn't you realize? It just isn't for long, because you

still hang on to that thought.

I see that. I wonder why I fight myself so much over this.

Love,

Caren

September 25, 2007

-------------- Original message --------------

> Yes, I would like to think that she would be happy for me doing this

> work. No, I cannot know that she wouldn't have committed suicide

> anyway even is she had found The Work. That is my fantasy because I

> am trying to go back and fix it and make it so that she didn't have

> to kill herself. I want to go back and make her not hurt and make

> it so that she could have enjoyed her life.

> I do know this is futile.

Good that you noticed.

Look, what is not futile: turn the above paragraph around and put

yourself where you mention her. See if other turnarounds fit, as well.

Okay. Here goes: I would like to think that I am happy for me doing this work.

I cannot know that she wouldn't have committed suicide if I had found the work.

This is my fanasy because I am trying to go back and fix it and make it so that

I didn't have to kill myself. I want to back and make me not hurt and make it

so that I can enjoy my life.

Huh. How bout that? ; )

> I do hope her pain has ceased.

And turn that one around, as well.

I do hope my pain has ceased.

Wow. Thank you. : ) : ) Weird.

> Thank you.

> Love,

> Caren

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September 26, 2007

Dear Roslyn,

Am 26.09.2007 um 06:49 schrieb mrcitrus6:

> alexander I didnt get this line.. -

>

>> Finally you get to do something on your own. You get to live.

>> Actually that's something very few people get to have.

> what does that mean.. we all are living our lives seemingly

> alone.. i know in reality we are all one..

> But as separate bodies.. seems to me we are all alone...

> well in illusion.. what did you mean?

I referred to " get to do something on your own: live " not to " be alone " .

Most people try to live other peoples lives and get to miss their own.

> thanks roslyn

Love,

> -- In Loving-what-is , wrote:

>>

>> Dear Caren,

>>

>>>>> " I see that her sacrifice has benefitted me becuause

>>>>> it has led me to this self-examination which has brought me a

>>>>> measure of peace. "

>>>> This sounds like the next belief to work on. This is clearly a

>>>> judgment statement rather then observation. Do you absolutely know

>>>> it's true she has sacrificed herself or is it your perception?

>>> No. I can't know that. Thank you for pointing this out.

>> If you want to do a work on it, I'd look for the simple judgement

>> here, like " Her suicide is helpful to me " .

>>

>> It sure doesn't look to me like that, though. I don't hear you are

>> living a great life, full of happiness.

>>

>>>> Why do you chose to see it this way?

>>> I don't know why I choose to see it this way. Maybe there is a part

>>> of me that wants to be punished.

>> " maybe " is slippery. Caren, you really want to be punished. Is that

>> really true?

>>

>>> At conception, we were one cell.

>>> People talk about twins having the closest relatonship there is. We

>>> weren't even close enough to have her let me know her plans or give

>>> me an opportunity to help.

>> Well, that's how twin-life is supposed to be. That's the real thing.

>> For you. It's never what you hear someone say.

>>

>>> I'm scared.

>> Yes. Can you get down from what?

>>

>> Fear is a story of the future.

>>

>>> We shared a bed until we

>>> were 7 and lived together until we were 20. And now I have to live

>>> the rest of my life without her.

>> Finally you get to do something on your own. You get to live.

>>

>> Actually that's something very few people get to have.

>>

>>> I'm just very sad. I get a good life and she didn't.

>> So let's blame ourselves.

>>

>> You get a life full of being miserable, blaming yourself, sadness and

>> fear. As it is now.

>>

>> I wonder: if that's the good life, ...?

>>

>> As soon as an existence starts, it is already full and complete. No

>> one dies before his time.

>>

>> Your sister even got to choose when and where. It's not that she

>> didn't see it coming.

>>

>> But if it had been a car accident, for instance, your grief would

>> have been different, wouldn't it? You could still blame yourself for

>> not having got close enough to her, talked enough, seen her enough,

>> told her enough how much you loved her, etc. But it would have been

>> different.

>>

>> That's the part to explore.

>>

>>>> Why does her action have to be labeled?

>>> I guess I label all actions because it helps me try to make sense of

>>> things. I know...not working. : )

>> That's how mind works, it labels. Thoughts come up.

>>

>> You just don't have to believe them.

>>

>>>> I do not see how you benefited from her suicide, you are going

>>>> through

>>>> enormous pain, looking for ways to suffer, to understand her and

>>>> her

>>>> actions. Where is the benefit here? Are you referring to the fact

>>>> that

>>>> you have started self exploration process?

>>> Yes.

>> And what does that have to do with your sister?

>>

>>>> As a person who once tried to commit suicide i can tell you

>>>> i wanted the easy way out as i didn't have the energy to deal

>>>> with

>>>> all the work and challenges in this life. So i actually can see

>>>> great

>>>> benefit in death.

>>> I'm sorry you went though that. I would like to think that Sharon

>>> is peaceful somewhere and having a good time and maybe is going to

>>> get another chance at life.

>> Yes. But you don't believe in that, do you?

>>

>> So instead of worshipping a new belief, let's deal with the ones we

>> have, already.

>>

>> And you would like for the universe to stop, move back a couple of

>> months, maybe to your childhood into a specific situation, so that

>> you could make a difference, that would turn the world and time a

>> much better place for everyone. For you, specifically. And it's ok to

>> see it that way and to believe what you do believe. Just get clear on

>> what price you want to pay for these beliefs.

>>

>>> Maybe death will turn out to be a benefit for all of us.

>> Could be.

>>

>> What is " death " , anyway?

>>

>>>>> " But what then comes up is a guilty feeling because her death is

>>>>> benefitting me. I question why she couldn't have found " The

>>>>> Work "

>>>>> before she killed herself because then she may not have done

>>>>> it.

>>>>> This is linked into the fact that she was extremely unhappy and

>>>>> hopeless. How do I know this? Happy, hopeful people don't

>>>>> murder

>>>>> themselves. I am unable to find beauty in this. "

>>>> This whole paragraph also sound like something to question. Let me

>>>> ask

>>>> you another question. Why/how can you honor her choice? Clearly you

>>>> think she has made the wrong choice you think she should have found

>>>> " The Work " or something else and should have worked on her

>>>> unhappiness

>>>> so you wouldn't have to be left alone and wonder about why she did

>>>> it?

>>> Selfish, isn't it, to want to go back and change her actions to make

>>> myself feel better and not be left here alone?

>> That's what is commonly interpreted as " love " by some.

>>

>>> I can honor her

>>> choice by thinking of her as being empowered and making a choice

>>> that she wanted.

>> Good. Can you? That would actually give her a life! Instead of being

>> something that must be controlled so that it makes the right

>> decisions.

>>

>>> But then a new thought creeps in. Before she did

>>> it, she wrecked her whole house and destroyed many things.

>> Looks like her choice, as well.

>>

>> She didn't need these things anymore, anyway.

>>

>>> She was

>>> clearly enraged. It's hard to honor her choice when it seems that

>>> she went kicking and screaming to her suicide.

>> That's not her, that's actually you.

>>

>>> Still her choice, I

>>> know, but it wasn't a peaceful scene at all.

>> Because you are the instance we ask for what peace looks like.

>>

>> She's kicking and screaming and throwing things around... that's

>> intense. She's really feeling herself! She is experiencing her body,

>> hearing her voice...

>>

>> Most people actually take lots of drugs to get there.

>>

>> She doesn't have to be careful what not to break, not to listen to a

>> concept of future. Just living in the moment, fully!

>>

>> She is even wrecking her house! Lots of people become horrified only

>> at the thought that that could happen to their house.

>>

>> It's a ritual. She is letting go of things. It's her way of packing.

>>

>> And it does look different from yours.

>>

>> So experience her last minutes the way you would want them: peaceful,

>> firm deciscion, even a ritual maybe. And ask yourself, if that's what

>> you would really want for her. In spite of her having preferred a

>> different way of leaving.

>>

>> You think you can feel her pain. You can't. Never ever.

>>

>> All the pain you get to experience is yours. And you don't have to

>> hurt physically to experience physical pain. But it's always your

>> pain. Her pain is not yours. It's hers.

>>

>> If you want to experience this " my pain/your pain " thing a little

>> more: think of you getting the whole pain from both of you. She is

>> having a painless life. And here's the deal: No one will ever notice

>> that you took her pain, no one will ever know. You get to be full of

>> pain enough for two people's life. And there's no one to acknowledge,

>> or even notice or care for what you did.

>> Is that what you had in mind? Or was there a motive. Get clear on

>> your motives, because they are a tricky deal: you expect to get your

>> part, and if you don't, you blame the others.

>>

>>>> Another thing i wanted to advise you is get help. This is a very

>>>> big

>>>> issue and you probably need someone to hear you, probably a

>>>> professional, especially since it's your identical twin. You're

>>>> going

>>>> through grief and many other issues, you would benefit greatly from

>>>> some counseling/facilitation.

>>> I had been seeing an excellent therapist for over two years alresdy

>>> at the time of Sharon's death. But just two months ago, my

>>> therapist moved out of state and comes back once a month to see me.

>>> She was stressing " practicing presence " at out last appointment

>>> which, after exploring my library, I came to find .

>>>

>>>> There are so many questions to ask

>>>> yourself and this can be a great opportunity to learn about

>>>> yourself.

>>>> If you go through this process alone, it's very hard not to get

>>>> dragged into self blame, judgment (of everybody involved),

>>>> accusations.

>>> I have been firmly planted in that very place.

>> Yes, you have lived that long enough, haven't you?

>>

>>>> I honor and admire the work you are doing. I hope you find your

>>>> peace.

>>> Thank you, Rina, for all of this.

>> And thank you.

>>

>> Love,

>>

September 27, 2007

Dear Caren,

> -------------- Original message --------------

>

> Dear Caren,

>

>>> Come again, what exactly are you guilty of?

>> I'm not guilty of anything.

> Good to know, isn't it?

> It is good to know. I can feel myself changing. I feel more at

> peace even when I wake up in the morning. That is when my feelings

> used to be the worst.

Glad to hear that.

>> And they are not peaceful thoughts. I

>> am just so sad she's gone and I'm so sad she chose suicide. It

>> would have been so much easier if she had died in a car accident.

> Is that true?

>

> It seems true to me.

What if you had to answer with " yes " or " no " ?

> It is common,...

Caren, did you ever care for what " common " is? If I hurt, I hurt.

Everyone in the world can be ok with it, no one could ever have

suffered from what I suffer, and still I do suffer. My work is about

me and NO ONE has anything to do with it.

It is your world you are exploring.

> ...I understand, for those left by suicide to have a more

> complicated time than with other deaths.

And yes, it is. The only difference being the thoughts we believe

around suicide.

> A tragic accident is very bad, but a self-inflicted death created a

> lot more feelings and thoughts to deal with. A lot of " whys " that

> will never, never, ever be answered.

The are not there to be answered, just to be noticed. That way you

get aware of your " why " s. And those " why " s I have trouble with are

usually the ones I don't come to from a position of curiosity.

> At least I know that it has been true for me.

Good, this is where you start answering the question.

> Also, if she had died of another cause, I wouldn't have had the

> overwhelming feeling that I would (or should) also commit suicide

> one day.

> They have found and named a suicide gene and learning about that

> was devastating. The correlation of the second identical twin

> committing suicide (even those identical twins separated at birth)

> is very high after one twin commits suicide. I don't want to

> commit suicide but I do feel like I have a ticking time bomb inside

> of me. I feel like one day I will do it, without even wanting to,

> and inflict pain upon my children, husband and friends. This

> thought is what wakes me up in the middle of the night. So, yeah,

> it would have been easier to have her die in a different manner.

Sweetheart, it's a thought. It's purpose is to be explored.

Fears are a story of the future. - It's exciting to investigate them.

They are so... intense.

You will commit suicide one day. - That's sort of the worst that can

happen, isn't it?

And can you absolutely know that that's true?

And what is the worst that will happen, next?

You read about a suicide-gene in some book. Someone told you. Who

would you be without HIS story? Kids are afraid of the boogeyman

(probably not - but you get the message?)

>>> There are such taboos in our society around suicide.

>> Turn that around.

> There are no taboos in our suicide around suicide. (???) Is that

> right?

I don't know. How could that be true? What comes to mind is that

there are lots of books, self-help groups,... around this issue?

Do you know any?

> I have taboos around suicide. Very true.

There it is. You are the one who has an issue with it. Who judges it

as a bad thing.

What society says is society's business.

>>> I am angry. I do blame her. Her act led to a LOT of pain and

>>> sadness.

>> Yes. Don't try to hide your anger.

> But I somehow feel like I'm not doing this work right because I do

> feel so many bad feelings. I guess they will get less as I do more

> work. I do seem to have a never-ending supply. ; )

How can a feeling be bad?

Pain is a gentle reminder that you are believing a thought that is

not true for you.

So hide your feeling away. It's like trying to shut off a warning sign.

But, don't worry: you can't.

>>> But than I feel like I am in la-la land...

>> oh, you are not asked to drop the thought.

>> Just notice what that would be like.

> OK.

>

>>> not

>>> facing reality (or at least possibility). I am getting frustrated

>>> with myself that I cannot see this the way that will bring me peace.

>> Oh, you can, didn't you realize? It just isn't for long, because you

>> still hang on to that thought.

> I see that. I wonder why I fight myself so much over this.

Sweetheart, you hold onto your world!

Because you know it needs protection. If you want to keep it, you

have to fight for it. And this is the price: depression, sadness,

anxiety, fear, etc.

So as long as you are willing to pay, you can keep it.

And if not, the universe vanishes and gets replaced with a kinder one.

Love,

September 27, 2007

Dear Caren,

>> -------------- Original message --------------

>>

>>> Yes, I would like to think that she would be happy for me doing this

>>> work. No, I cannot know that she wouldn't have committed suicide

>>> anyway even is she had found The Work. That is my fantasy because I

>>> am trying to go back and fix it and make it so that she didn't have

>>> to kill herself. I want to go back and make her not hurt and make

>>> it so that she could have enjoyed her life.

>>

>>> I do know this is futile.

>> Good that you noticed.

>>

>> Look, what is not futile: turn the above paragraph around and put

>> yourself where you mention her. See if other turnarounds fit, as

>> well.

> Okay. Here goes: I would like to think that I am happy for me

> doing this work. I cannot know that she wouldn't have committed

> suicide if I had found the work. This is my fanasy because I am

> trying to go back and fix it and make it so that I didn't have to

> kill myself. I want to back and make me not hurt and make it so

> that I can enjoy my life.

>

> Huh. How bout that? ; )

You tell me! ;-)

And the good one is: you don't have to go back. You can do it know.

It's always now.

>>> I do hope her pain has ceased.

>> And turn that one around, as well.

> I do hope my pain has ceased.

>

> Wow. Thank you. : ) : ) Weird.

You're welcome.

Love,

September 27, 2007

Am 26.09.2007 um 02:05 schrieb adoptivemomx2:

>

>> Dear Sharon,

> Caren here. Sharon is the dead one. haha. (I figure you're deep

> enough in my crap that I can tease you.)

Of course you can tease me. :-)

And I love your lightheartedness.

>> Yes. Write that down. Even if you don't do the work on it, now,

>> it can be interesting to look at it at another time.

>> To see what's left.

> Done.

>

>>> I question her decision every day. I just want her back. I know

>>> it's futile.

>> So, imagine you get her back.

>>

>> What then?

>>

>> What is it you could do if you got her back that you can not do,

>> now?

>> What is it you would experience? And find out where that comes

>> from.

> I would get to watch her feel good because she would have gotten

> help rather than end it all. Is this true. Could be true and maybe

> not.

So I hear a " maybe " . That leaves a door open. Enough to work with.

And watching her feeling good would give you some peace. And joy. And

you would feel good yourself.

It always gets back to you, you are the source and the sink.

So let's raise her from the dead, reverse time and put her into a

life with depression, fear, trauma, etc. So that - eventually - we

look at her once and when the thought: " she feels good, now " come we

can believe it.

Yes, that is indeed very selfish, but... it's also a very complicated

deviation to feel good.

Take the short cut. Turn your above sentence around and see if that's

whithin your reach. Or maybe just a little closer that what you think

you want.

>> She's dead. Is that true?

> Let's see. Several bottles of pills, alcohol, a gunshot to the head

> that almost completed the job, followed by drowning. Yeah, I'm

> pretty sure she's dead.

Great, you have evidence! Where is it, in front of you? How did you

ever get to see it?

>> And I am not suggesting that she is not dead.

>>

>> Just where is the proof? How do you know, NOW, that she's dead?

>> Apart

>> from memory (Do you even have memory as your proof? Did you see

>> her dead?)

> Proof? Her ashes are sitting on my bookshelf.

Sweetheart, there's a cup on your bookshelf.

And inside that cup lies Sharon.

Laughing, little, young, big, hard working, suffering, singing,

beautful Sharon.

Are you aware of how that sounds?

>> When I did this work my proof was that I could not call him, meet

>> him

>> and that I would never see him again. And I noticed that I felt

>> for

>> friends whom I thought I would never see again the same grief. So

>> I

>> questioned: " You won't ever see him again. - Is that true? "

>> and " He

>> won't ever talk to you again " and " You need his advice, NOW " and

>> I

>> found that these were not even true for me.

>>

>> So look at that part where the grief is, and find your truth.

>>

>> And also look at the difference between: " she's dead " and " she's

>> shopping " .

>>

>> Because when my beloved left the room and are not on the phone, I

>> have no information whatsoever on their life status. For all I

>> know

>> they could be dead, but I feel jolly, until I get notice. That's

>> when

>> the thoughts start to kick in.

> True. Very true. I am very grieved because I KNOW she killed

> herself. If I didn't know...things would be so much different. I

> wouldn't put all the judgements I have on her. I wouldn't be scared.

That's a huge one, girl.

Knowing... gives us security, importance and an ego.

And it's a stable position.

But it's also being stuck.

So as long as I like the position, everything is doodelydodely, I get

to be in Lala-land and an " I-don't-see-I-don't-hear " -attitude.

" Not knowing " is not " knowing " the opposite. It's an open position.

Judgeless, not taking parts until we get to hear the facts.

>>>>>> What your sister gave... seems to be something irreversibly

>>>>>> lost.

>>>>>> She gave her life.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Who is sacrificing yours?

>>>>> I am sacrificing mine.

>>>> Good. You found the one responsible, now you can make her stop.

>>> I want to stop sacrficing mine.

>> Yes, I hear you.

>> You have just started. And you are doing a great job! :-)

> Thank you. For everything (and your patience.)

You're so welcome.

>>>> O.K. Here goes:

>>>

>>> " Sharon was extremely unhappy and hopeless. "

>>>

>>> Is it true? Yes.

>>>

>>> Can I really know it to be true? Here's where I get stuck. She

>>> said she was unhappy and she acted unhappy. It seems true.

>> So, she said she was unhappy and she acted unhappy.

>>

>> Do you know any person that you've met in you whole life that

>> never

>> looked unhappy and never acted unhappy?

>>

>> You've got yourself a definition for Sharon: The unhappy one.

>> So her frequency of unhappyness may be of a certain level - the

>> way

>> you perceive it. And can you absolutely know that she was unhappy

>> all the time you think she was unhappy?

> No, I can't know that.

Ain't that just wonderful that life might be just a little better

than what we thought?

>> Who were you, if you could not believe that she was happy ALL the

>> time you think of her being unhappy? Could you have been mistaken

>> only once, when you thought of her as being unhappy? Do you maybe

>> even know of one time?

>> How does THAT feel?

> She had happy moments. I'm glad she had happy moments. I suppose I

> am just as capable of remembering her happy moments. But certainly

> she did not have enough happy moments for her to want to keep living.

Thing is: she had a full life.

And I can believe she hadn't. That way I get to teach the world how

not to have a full live, but to be dead and walking, instead.

>> She's not unhappy now. And look how you see her, when you close

>> your eyes.

> I hope she's not unhappy now. In my worst moments, I believe what

> the assholes say: That suicides spend eternity in hell.

They do that because they think it keeps them safe. It's a futile

protection for themselves.

That's neither about you or your sister, and the one thing it can't

do is harm you.

Isn't it wonderful how much we care for what people we want to

silence have to say?

Don't pretend that she's alive.

Let's time travel!

Remember: go back to where she was alive, and shopping. When you

close your eyes, back then, how do you see her?

How do you see her, now?

And where is the difference between SharonInYourMindBefore and

SharonInYourMindNow - apart from the thought that you think you know?

>> So ask yourself: who is better at being unhappy? Who is the master

>> of being unhappy? You're unhappy even after she's over with it.

> I am the QUEEN of being unhappy. I am the MASTER.

Hey! You found your devotion! ;-P

> Do I get a prize?

Of COURSE you do: hell on earth! Haven't you noticed? ;-)

What more could the queen of unhappiness wish for? ;-)

>> Look at the laughing woman she could be, now. In your mind. In

>> your

>> heart. How does that make you feel?

>>

>> Look at the two women: the sad, crying, unhappy one. And the

>> laughing

>> one, enjoying life.

>> Let her be happy, now.

> I have very happy moments.

Isn't that why you want sharon back in the first place?

> I have a very fulfilling family life. I

> am busy with my children and husband. The day after Sharon did

> this, I went to my daughter's school and volunteered for her

> Valentine's Day party, just as planned. The day after that, I took

> her to her Valentine's dance, just as planned. I haven't missed a

> day of anything since. No laying in bed, wallowing in misery. My

> children only saw me cry once.

>

> I do realize my thoughts about this is creating a pall over my life.

What is your motive for trying to hide your pain from your loved ones?

And how would you feel if you realized that one of them is trying to

hide his pain from you?

>>> I can't seem to get past this. It is true that happy, hopeful

>>> people don't kill themselves. I cannot conceive of a happy,

>>> hopeful

>>> person killing themselves.

>> Don't bother with proof for the opposite, yet.

>> Let's see... do you know a person that's been happy and hopeful

>> all her life?

> I do know people who aren't miserable.

>> How do you recognize a person that's happy and hopeful?

> They're the ones smiling. Or at least not in the process of killing

> themselves.

And never think of it.

hm... someone always smiling... weird!

Well, it's your reference, anyway: people who smile when you are

around don't kill themselves.

It IS a theory, and you can live along those lines.

Or you can explore further.

>>> So let's look at that story. What is it that was indoctrinated?

>> And I don't see myself as any more enlightened than you.

> Suicide is wrong. It is against God. It is unnatural. You go to

> hell if you do it.

Yeah, sure.

Does this sound as convincing to you as it sounds to me?

And haven't you realized you ARE already living in hell when you

believe that?

Caren... tell me something about death.

What does it look like?

>>>>> but it sure

>>>>> makes sense. I don't know of anyone that was so utterly happy

>>>>> they

>>>>> killed themselves.

>>>> Ever heard of these suicide-massacres of some sects?

>>> They just think they are happy and hopeful. They are in fact

>>> brainwashed.

>> Well, lucky we have *you* to tell us the difference!

>> :-)

> That's what I'm here for! Happy to help!

LOL!

>>>>> And she acted unhappy most of her life.

>>>> It does make sense, that's why it is so convincing. And can you

>>>> really know that?

>>>> It's just inquiry. How would you live with her suicide, if you

>>>> knew

>>>> she did it out of happyness?

>>> Like a less-stressed liar. She wasn't happy. Am I frustrating

>>> you?

>>> I don't want to. I want to join you in the realm of

>>> acceptance.

>> No, I appreciate your honesty.

>> I'd like to see your answers to the above, before we go on, here.

> Thank you for all of your time and energy and caring.

You're welcome.

And it feels like I'm receiving a lot.

>>> Yes. I hope she is at peace. I am sure (?) that that is what

>>> she

>>> wanted.

>> As you said she was pretty determined. Doesn't look to me that

>> she

>> was caught by surprise or chance.

>> Looks like her free will.

>> I think it's poweful.

> Yes, she accomplished what she set out to do. I can see the good in

> that. But it feels somehow perverted to say that. Here I go

> believing my thoughts again.

Oh, well! :-) Give it some time.

> ?

>>> Yes. And I wanted it for her. It's empathy. I am sad that she

>>> hurt.

>> Turn that around.

> I wanted that for me. I am sad that I hurt.

Isn't that at least as true?

>> Empathy doesn't hurt.

>

>>>> And who's business is her unhappyness?

>>> Hers. But if I saw someone bleeding, I would want to help them

>>> before they died. I know, I can't help them if they've already

>>> died.

>> Yes. And you can help them without suffering yourself. You know

>> that.

>> You don't even have to believe that they hurt.

>>

>> You can just help, because of love.

>>

>> When the kid cries because it fell you don't panic. You know what

>> to

>> do: you hold it, and embrace it, and hug it. You may even sing to

>> calm it. Because you know that there is no legitimate reason for

>> it

>> to suffer.

>>

>> And sometimes you forget that it's a kid that's crying.

>>

>> You forget that it's the thoughts it's afraid of.

>>

>> You forget that it doesn't have to suffer.

>>

>> And you forget that these thoughts are not true for you.

>>

>> That's when you suffer.

>>

>> And call it compassion.

>>

>> " look how much I care for you! I suffer when you suffer. I suffer

>> even more than you! That's because I love you. My pain proves my

>> love

>> for you. I can not be happy, until you are. "

> Yes. How can I possibly not make myself suffer when she suffered so

> much? My pain proves my love and sadness that she is not here.

> Skewed, isn't it.

Well... it's a little confusion: let's spread love! Hey guys, this is

what love looks like: I am so sad when you're sad, I hurt so much

when I think you do! I beg you: don't ever, ever hurt, or else I can

not be happy!

Fascinating viewpoint!

So... how do we teach love?

>>> She was 90% unhappy. I don't know why I would

>>> want her to continue that life. I guess death was a blessing to

>>> her.

>> Good to notice.

>>

>> And we got a number down: she was 90/10 unhappy.

>>

>> So can you absolutely know she was 90/10 unhappy? How would you

>> feel

>> if she had been just a very little less unhappy, than you believe?

>> What if it was more?

>>

>> And how much do you think you really know?

> I don't know anything for sure. I'm mostly guessing.

Of course! And when we believe our guesses and carve them in stone

that's naivety.

>>> She wanted to do good.

>> Good.

>> Turn that around.

> I want to do good.

That's wonderful of you!

Isn't it at least as true?

>> Good work.

> Thank you.

You're welcome.

Love,

September 27, 2007

> >> it's true she has sacrificed herself or is it your perception?

> > No. I can't know that. Thank you for pointing this out.

> If you want to do a work on it, I'd look for the simple judgement

> here, like " Her suicide is helpful to me " .

Her suicide has been helpful to me because I have met you all : ), I

have started looking at my life differently, I am taking better care

of myself.

>

> It sure doesn't look to me like that, though. I don't hear you

are

> living a great life, full of happiness.

It's compartmentalized: My life, full of happiness. Her suicide:

full of sadness. Though, I guess one leaks over into the other.

>

> >> Why do you chose to see it this way?

> > I don't know why I choose to see it this way. Maybe there is a

part

> > of me that wants to be punished.

> " maybe " is slippery. Caren, you really want to be punished. Is

that

> really true?

I don't really want to be punished. I feel like I am SUPPOSED to be

punished.

>

> > At conception, we were one cell.

> > People talk about twins having the closest relatonship there

is. We

> > weren't even close enough to have her let me know her plans or

give

> > me an opportunity to help.

> Well, that's how twin-life is supposed to be. That's the real

thing.

> For you. It's never what you hear someone say.

You're right. Twin life for me has been much diffrerent that

what " they " say.

>

> > I'm scared.

> Yes. Can you get down from what?

>

> Fear is a story of the future.

Yes, it is. I am scared of so many things. Nine have happened yet.

>

> > We shared a bed until we

> > were 7 and lived together until we were 20. And now I have to

live

> > the rest of my life without her.

> Finally you get to do something on your own. You get to live.

>

> Actually that's something very few people get to have.

I do get to live. I guess I am free of the comparisons twins get

much of the time.

>

> > I'm just very sad. I get a good life and she didn't.

> So let's blame ourselves.

Can't I blame someone????

>

> You get a life full of being miserable, blaming yourself, sadness

and

> fear. As it is now.

>

> I wonder: if that's the good life, ...?

I get the opportunity to do something about it. You all are

teaching me how.

>

> As soon as an existence starts, it is already full and complete.

No

> one dies before his time.

No, I guess not. It was her time.

>

> Your sister even got to choose when and where. It's not that she

> didn't see it coming.

No, she saw it coming. She had bought the gun a year earlier.

>

> But if it had been a car accident, for instance, your grief would

> have been different, wouldn't it? You could still blame yourself

for

> not having got close enough to her, talked enough, seen her

enough,

> told her enough how much you loved her, etc. But it would have

been

> different.

>

> That's the part to explore.

Yes, all of those things. I would have probably tortured myself.

But I would have known WHY she died and I would have had someone or

something to blame. The screaming child in me wants that.

>

> >> Why does her action have to be labeled?

> > I guess I label all actions because it helps me try to make

sense of

> > things. I know...not working. : )

> That's how mind works, it labels. Thoughts come up.

>

> You just don't have to believe them.

I am seeing that. What a blessing.

>

> >> I do not see how you benefited from her suicide, you are going

> >> through

> >> enormous pain, looking for ways to suffer, to understand her

and

> >> her

> >> actions. Where is the benefit here? Are you referring to the

fact

> >> that

> >> you have started self exploration process?

> > Yes.

> And what does that have to do with your sister?

I wouldn't have started down this road if she hadn't killed

herself. Is that true> Maybe I would have found it anyway. There

is no way for me to know. Huh. Look at me go!

>

> >> As a person who once tried to commit suicide i can tell you

> >> i wanted the easy way out as i didn't have the energy to deal

> >> with

> >> all the work and challenges in this life. So i actually can see

> >> great

> >> benefit in death.

> > I'm sorry you went though that. I would like to think that

Sharon

> > is peaceful somewhere and having a good time and maybe is going

to

> > get another chance at life.

> Yes. But you don't believe in that, do you?

I believe out souls/energy never dies.

>

> So instead of worshipping a new belief, let's deal with the ones

we

> have, already.

>

> And you would like for the universe to stop, move back a couple

of

> months, maybe to your childhood into a specific situation, so

that

> you could make a difference, that would turn the world and time a

> much better place for everyone. For you, specifically. And it's ok

to

> see it that way and to believe what you do believe. Just get clear

on

> what price you want to pay for these beliefs.

Yes, a big price. A very big price.

>

> > Maybe death will turn out to be a benefit for all of us.

> Could be.

>

> What is " death " , anyway?

I have thought and read about this so much since her death. I think

we continue in some form after our bodies die.

>

> >>> " But what then comes up is a guilty feeling because her death

is

> >>> benefitting me. I question why she couldn't have found " The

> >>> Work "

> >>> before she killed herself because then she may not have done

> >>> it.

> >>> This is linked into the fact that she was extremely unhappy and

> >>> hopeless. How do I know this? Happy, hopeful people don't

> >>> murder

> >>> themselves. I am unable to find beauty in this. "

> >> This whole paragraph also sound like something to question. Let

me

> >> ask

> >> you another question. Why/how can you honor her choice? Clearly

you

> >> think she has made the wrong choice you think she should have

found

> >> " The Work " or something else and should have worked on her

> >> unhappiness

> >> so you wouldn't have to be left alone and wonder about why she

did

> >> it?

> > Selfish, isn't it, to want to go back and change her actions to

make

> > myself feel better and not be left here alone?

> That's what is commonly interpreted as " love " by some.

Yes.

>

> > I can honor her

> > choice by thinking of her as being empowered and making a choice

> > that she wanted.

> Good. Can you? That would actually give her a life! Instead of

being

> something that must be controlled so that it makes the right

decisions.

Yes. She made the decision. It was not my decision to make, no

matter how badly I want a different outcome.

>

> > But then a new thought creeps in. Before she did

> > it, she wrecked her whole house and destroyed many things.

> Looks like her choice, as well.

Yes.

>

> She didn't need these things anymore, anyway.

No, she didn't

>

> > She was

> > clearly enraged. It's hard to honor her choice when it seems

that

> > she went kicking and screaming to her suicide.

> That's not her, that's actually you.

Yes, it is me.

>

> > Still her choice, I

> > know, but it wasn't a peaceful scene at all.

> Because you are the instance we ask for what peace looks like.

>

> She's kicking and screaming and throwing things around... that's

> intense. She's really feeling herself! She is experiencing her

body,

> hearing her voice...

>

> Most people actually take lots of drugs to get there.

She was very " alive " when she did that, wasn't she?

>

> She doesn't have to be careful what not to break, not to listen to

a

> concept of future. Just living in the moment, fully!

>

> She is even wrecking her house! Lots of people become horrified

only

> at the thought that that could happen to their house.

>

> It's a ritual. She is letting go of things. It's her way of

packing.

I just picture that so full of pain. I wish she hadn't been in pain.

>

> And it does look different from yours.

Very different.

>

> So experience her last minutes the way you would want them:

peaceful,

> firm deciscion, even a ritual maybe. And ask yourself, if that's

what

> you would really want for her. In spite of her having preferred a

> different way of leaving.

Yes, I would want that for her. What a great reframe. I would have

wanted her to be sure before she did something like that. No doubt

that she was sure.

>

> You think you can feel her pain. You can't. Never ever.

>

> All the pain you get to experience is yours. And you don't have

to

> hurt physically to experience physical pain. But it's always your

> pain. Her pain is not yours. It's hers.

So I am feeling my pain.

>

> If you want to experience this " my pain/your pain " thing a little

> more: think of you getting the whole pain from both of you. She

is

> having a painless life. And here's the deal: No one will ever

notice

> that you took her pain, no one will ever know. You get to be full

of

> pain enough for two people's life. And there's no one to

acknowledge,

> or even notice or care for what you did.

> Is that what you had in mind? Or was there a motive. Get clear on

> your motives, because they are a tricky deal: you expect to get

your

> part, and if you don't, you blame the others.

This will take me a while. I'm not sure I can articulate my

thoughts about this, yet.

>

> >> Another thing i wanted to advise you is get help. This is a very

> >> big

> >> issue and you probably need someone to hear you, probably a

> >> professional, especially since it's your identical twin. You're

> >> going

> >> through grief and many other issues, you would benefit greatly

from

> >> some counseling/facilitation.

> > I had been seeing an excellent therapist for over two years

alresdy

> > at the time of Sharon's death. But just two months ago, my

> > therapist moved out of state and comes back once a month to see

me.

> > She was stressing " practicing presence " at out last appointment

> > which, after exploring my library, I came to find .

> >

> >> There are so many questions to ask

> >> yourself and this can be a great opportunity to learn about

> >> yourself.

> >> If you go through this process alone, it's very hard not to get

> >> dragged into self blame, judgment (of everybody involved),

> >> accusations.

> > I have been firmly planted in that very place.

> Yes, you have lived that long enough, haven't you?

I thnk maybe I have.

>

> >> I honor and admire the work you are doing. I hope you find your

> >> peace.

> > Thank you, Rina, for all of this.

> And thank you.

Thank you.

>

> Love,

>

Love,

Caren

>

September 28, 2007

Dear Caren,

Am 28.09.2007 um 01:47 schrieb adoptivemomx2:

>>>> it's true she has sacrificed herself or is it your perception?

>>> No. I can't know that. Thank you for pointing this out.

>> If you want to do a work on it, I'd look for the simple judgement

>> here, like " Her suicide is helpful to me " .

> Her suicide has been helpful to me because I have met you all : ), I

> have started looking at my life differently, I am taking better care

> of myself.

As long as there is no stress about it, it sounds fine! ;-)

>> It sure doesn't look to me like that, though. I don't hear you

>> are living a great life, full of happiness.

> It's compartmentalized: My life, full of happiness. Her suicide:

> full of sadness. Though, I guess one leaks over into the other.

We are talking about the life you have because of her suicide.

And that's where I only hear the sadness kick in.

>>>> Why do you chose to see it this way?

>>> I don't know why I choose to see it this way. Maybe there is a

>>> part of me that wants to be punished.

>> " maybe " is slippery. Caren, you really want to be punished. Is

>> that really true?

> I don't really want to be punished. I feel like I am SUPPOSED to be

> punished.

But you didn't choose to se it that way because you feel like you are

supposed to be punished, is it?

And then you get absolution, aka peace?

Is it like repenting sins?

>>> At conception, we were one cell.

>>> People talk about twins having the closest relatonship there

>>> is. We

>>> weren't even close enough to have her let me know her plans or

>>> give

>>> me an opportunity to help.

>> Well, that's how twin-life is supposed to be. That's the real

>> thing.

>> For you. It's never what you hear someone say.

> You're right. Twin life for me has been much diffrerent that

> what " they " say.

So maybe you have experienced other things different, as well.

What you know and have experienced is something no one else can know

or experience.

Because everyone is different.

And everything changes.

Just the thoughts keep the same.

>>> I'm scared.

>> Yes. Can you get down from what?

>> Fear is a story of the future.

> Yes, it is. I am scared of so many things. Nine have happened yet.

Nine or none?

>>> We shared a bed until we

>>> were 7 and lived together until we were 20. And now I have to

>>> live the rest of my life without her.

>> Finally you get to do something on your own. You get to live.

>> Actually that's something very few people get to have.

> I do get to live. I guess I am free of the comparisons twins get

> much of the time.

You are free of the comparisons you get from yourself much of the time.

>>> I'm just very sad. I get a good life and she didn't.

>> So let's blame ourselves.

> Can't I blame someone????

Sure you can. You have a life-long experience with that!

And if you want some peace, you know what to work on.

>> You get a life full of being miserable, blaming yourself, sadness

>> and fear. As it is now.

>> I wonder: if that's the good life, ...?

> I get the opportunity to do something about it. You all are

> teaching me how.

I'd rather see how you teach us. You are the one who went through all

these experiences for us.

>> As soon as an existence starts, it is already full and complete.

>> No one dies before his time.

> No, I guess not. It was her time.

And she knew that.

You have a smart sister.

>> Your sister even got to choose when and where. It's not that she

>> didn't see it coming.

> No, she saw it coming. She had bought the gun a year earlier.

What a way to go! Already knowing ahead of time.

How would you rather have it: decide for yourself when your time has

come, or let someone else decide for you?

>> But if it had been a car accident, for instance, your grief would

>> have been different, wouldn't it? You could still blame yourself

>> for not having got close enough to her, talked enough, seen her

>> enough,

>> told her enough how much you loved her, etc. But it would have

>> been different.

>> That's the part to explore.

> Yes, all of those things. I would have probably tortured myself.

> But I would have known WHY she died and I would have had someone or

> something to blame. The screaming child in me wants that.

Oh, you DO know why she died: Pills in her stomach, a bullet in her

brain and water in her lungs.

You also know why she chose to die: because of her bad conscience and

everything she couldn't get over. Because of the clapping and the

crippling, the beating in her memory and her guilt.

She believed her thoughts.

And she found three ways to stop them.

>>>> Why does her action have to be labeled?

>>> I guess I label all actions because it helps me try to make

>>> sense of things. I know...not working.

>> That's how mind works, it labels. Thoughts come up.

>> You just don't have to believe them.

> I am seeing that. What a blessing.

>>>> I do not see how you benefited from her suicide, you are going

>>>> through

>>>> enormous pain, looking for ways to suffer, to understand her

>>>> and her

>>>> actions. Where is the benefit here? Are you referring to the

>>>> fact that you have started self exploration process?

>>> Yes.

>> And what does that have to do with your sister?

> I wouldn't have started down this road if she hadn't killed

> herself. Is that true>

Good!

> Maybe I would have found it anyway. There

> is no way for me to know. Huh. Look at me go!

Excellent! :-)

And it's ok to doubt. Take baby-steps. It's what everybody does.

As long as you stay with a " but " your work is not done. And you get

to undo your thought, again.

And here's a promise: Once there is no " but " anymore, your work is done.

>>>> As a person who once tried to commit suicide i can tell you

>>>> i wanted the easy way out as i didn't have the energy to deal

>>>> with

>>>> all the work and challenges in this life. So i actually can see

>>>> great

>>>> benefit in death.

>>> I'm sorry you went though that. I would like to think that

>>> Sharon

>>> is peaceful somewhere and having a good time and maybe is going

>>> to

>>> get another chance at life.

>> Yes. But you don't believe in that, do you?

> I believe out souls/energy never dies.

So... Sharon is dead - is that true?

>> So instead of worshipping a new belief, let's deal with the ones

>> we have, already.

>>

>> And you would like for the universe to stop, move back a couple

>> of

>> months, maybe to your childhood into a specific situation, so

>> that

>> you could make a difference, that would turn the world and time a

>> much better place for everyone. For you, specifically. And it's ok

>> to

>> see it that way and to believe what you do believe. Just get clear

>> on

>> what price you want to pay for these beliefs.

> Yes, a big price. A very big price.

Looks like you ran out of credit! ,-)

>>> Maybe death will turn out to be a benefit for all of us.

>> Could be.

>> What is " death " , anyway?

> I have thought and read about this so much since her death. I think

> we continue in some form after our bodies die.

So that is your story.

>>>>> " But what then comes up is a guilty feeling because her death

>>>>> is

>>>>> benefitting me. I question why she couldn't have found " The

>>>>> Work "

>>>>> before she killed herself because then she may not have done

>>>>> it.

>>>>> This is linked into the fact that she was extremely unhappy and

>>>>> hopeless. How do I know this? Happy, hopeful people don't

>>>>> murder

>>>>> themselves. I am unable to find beauty in this. "

>>>> This whole paragraph also sound like something to question. Let

>>>> me ask

>>>> you another question. Why/how can you honor her choice? Clearly

>>>> you

>>>> think she has made the wrong choice you think she should have

>>>> found

>>>> " The Work " or something else and should have worked on her

>>>> unhappiness

>>>> so you wouldn't have to be left alone and wonder about why she

>>>> did it?

>>> Selfish, isn't it, to want to go back and change her actions to

>>> make

>>> myself feel better and not be left here alone?

>> That's what is commonly interpreted as " love " by some.

> Yes.

>>> I can honor her

>>> choice by thinking of her as being empowered and making a choice

>>> that she wanted.

>> Good. Can you? That would actually give her a life! Instead of

>> being

>> something that must be controlled so that it makes the right

>> decisions.

> Yes. She made the decision. It was not my decision to make, no

> matter how badly I want a different outcome.

And if you want a different outcome:

" I should save her life " - because you still want her to live, don't

you?

Turn it around.

>>> But then a new thought creeps in. Before she did

>>> it, she wrecked her whole house and destroyed many things.

>> Looks like her choice, as well.

> Yes.

>> She didn't need these things anymore, anyway.

> No, she didn't

>>> She was

>>> clearly enraged. It's hard to honor her choice when it seems

>>> that

>>> she went kicking and screaming to her suicide.

>> That's not her, that's actually you.

> Yes, it is me.

>>> Still her choice, I

>>> know, but it wasn't a peaceful scene at all.

>> Because you are the instance we ask for what peace looks like.

>>

>> She's kicking and screaming and throwing things around... that's

>> intense. She's really feeling herself! She is experiencing her

>> body,

>> hearing her voice...

>>

>> Most people actually take lots of drugs to get there.

> She was very " alive " when she did that, wasn't she?

Yes, it's good to see that.

What a party!

>> She doesn't have to be careful what not to break, not to listen to

>> a concept of future. Just living in the moment, fully!

>>

>> She is even wrecking her house! Lots of people become horrified

>> only at the thought that that could happen to their house.

>>

>> It's a ritual. She is letting go of things. It's her way of

>> packing.

> I just picture that so full of pain. I wish she hadn't been in pain.

That's you who is in pain.

Become our teacher by healing yourself.

>> And it does look different from yours.

> Very different.

>> So experience her last minutes the way you would want them:

>> peaceful,

>> firm deciscion, even a ritual maybe. And ask yourself, if that's

>> what

>> you would really want for her. In spite of her having preferred a

>> different way of leaving.

> Yes, I would want that for her. What a great reframe. I would have

> wanted her to be sure before she did something like that. No doubt

> that she was sure.

>> You think you can feel her pain. You can't. Never ever.

>>

>> All the pain you get to experience is yours. And you don't have

>> to

>> hurt physically to experience physical pain. But it's always your

>> pain. Her pain is not yours. It's hers.

> So I am feeling my pain.

Absolutely.

>> If you want to experience this " my pain/your pain " thing a little

>> more: think of you getting the whole pain from both of you. She

>> is

>> having a painless life. And here's the deal: No one will ever

>> notice

>> that you took her pain, no one will ever know. You get to be full

>> of

>> pain enough for two people's life. And there's no one to

>> acknowledge,

>> or even notice or care for what you did.

>> Is that what you had in mind? Or was there a motive. Get clear on

>> your motives, because they are a tricky deal: you expect to get

>> your

>> part, and if you don't, you blame the others.

> This will take me a while. I'm not sure I can articulate my

> thoughts about this, yet.

Take your time. You have the rest of your life left for that.

>>>> Another thing i wanted to advise you is get help. This is a very

>>>> big

>>>> issue and you probably need someone to hear you, probably a

>>>> professional, especially since it's your identical twin. You're

>>>> going

>>>> through grief and many other issues, you would benefit greatly

>>>> from

>>>> some counseling/facilitation.

>>> I had been seeing an excellent therapist for over two years

>>> alresdy

>>> at the time of Sharon's death. But just two months ago, my

>>> therapist moved out of state and comes back once a month to see

>>> me.

>>> She was stressing " practicing presence " at out last appointment

>>> which, after exploring my library, I came to find .

>>>

>>>> There are so many questions to ask

>>>> yourself and this can be a great opportunity to learn about

>>>> yourself.

>>>> If you go through this process alone, it's very hard not to get

>>>> dragged into self blame, judgment (of everybody involved),

>>>> accusations.

>>> I have been firmly planted in that very place.

>> Yes, you have lived that long enough, haven't you?

> I think maybe I have.

I'd leave away the " I think " and the " maybe " .

Love,

September 29, 2007

Dear ,

> >> And they are not peaceful thoughts. I

> >> am just so sad she's gone and I'm so sad she chose suicide. It

> >> would have been so much easier if she had died in a car

accident.

> > Is that true?

> >

> > It seems true to me.

> What if you had to answer with " yes " or " no " ?

Yes, it would have been easier to deal with if she had dies in a car

accident rather than by suicide. Definitely. But I might not have

gone looking like I did to find help.

>

> > It is common,...

> Caren, did you ever care for what " common " is? If I hurt, I hurt.

> Everyone in the world can be ok with it, no one could ever have

> suffered from what I suffer, and still I do suffer. My work is

about

> me and NO ONE has anything to do with it.

>

> It is your world you are exploring.

>

> > ...I understand, for those left by suicide to have a more

> > complicated time than with other deaths.

> And yes, it is. The only difference being the thoughts we believe

> around suicide.

Yes, There are many more thoughts to work through.

>

> > A tragic accident is very bad, but a self-inflicted death

created a

> > lot more feelings and thoughts to deal with. A lot of " whys "

that

> > will never, never, ever be answered.

> The are not there to be answered, just to be noticed. That way

you

> get aware of your " why " s. And those " why " s I have trouble with

are

> usually the ones I don't come to from a position of curiosity.

You're very right. I am not looking at the " why " s froma position of

curiosity. I am looking at it from a demanding child's

perspective. And " don't know " has not been acceptable. I used to

think I NEEDED to know why she killed herself. Now I don't think I

need to know. The reason I say " I think " is because I wonder if

this feeling of not needing to know is going to fade away.

>

> > At least I know that it has been true for me.

> Good, this is where you start answering the question.

>

> > Also, if she had died of another cause, I wouldn't have had the

> > overwhelming feeling that I would (or should) also commit

suicide

> > one day.

> > They have found and named a suicide gene and learning about

that

> > was devastating. The correlation of the second identical twin

> > committing suicide (even those identical twins separated at

birth)

> > is very high after one twin commits suicide. I don't want to

> > commit suicide but I do feel like I have a ticking time bomb

inside

> > of me. I feel like one day I will do it, without even wanting

to,

> > and inflict pain upon my children, husband and friends. This

> > thought is what wakes me up in the middle of the night. So,

yeah,

> > it would have been easier to have her die in a different manner.

> Sweetheart, it's a thought. It's purpose is to be explored.

>

> Fears are a story of the future. - It's exciting to investigate

them.

> They are so... intense.

>

> You will commit suicide one day. - That's sort of the worst that

can

> happen, isn't it?

> And can you absolutely know that that's true?

>

> And what is the worst that will happen, next?

That fear is not with me now. I'm not sure where it went but I'm

not so scared anymore. I think I am just not believing every

thought that passes through my head anymore. : )

>

> You read about a suicide-gene in some book. Someone told you. Who

> would you be without HIS story? Kids are afraid of the boogeyman

> (probably not - but you get the message?)

Just because it is genetic doesn't mean I will do it. I never

wanted to do it before her suicide.

>

> >>> There are such taboos in our society around suicide.

> >> Turn that around.

> > There are no taboos in our suicide around suicide. (???) Is

that

> > right?

> I don't know. How could that be true? What comes to mind is that

> there are lots of books, self-help groups,... around this issue?

> Do you know any?

Yes, lots of self-help groups and books. Still, people don't like

to talk about it. It makes people uncomfortable.

>

> > I have taboos around suicide. Very true.

> There it is. You are the one who has an issue with it. Who judges

it

> as a bad thing.

>

> What society says is society's business.

True.

>

> >>> I am angry. I do blame her. Her act led to a LOT of pain and

> >>> sadness.

> >> Yes. Don't try to hide your anger.

> > But I somehow feel like I'm not doing this work right because I

do

> > feel so many bad feelings. I guess they will get less as I do

more

> > work. I do seem to have a never-ending supply. ; )

> How can a feeling be bad?

It makes me feel bad.

>

> Pain is a gentle reminder that you are believing a thought that

is

> not true for you.

>

> So hide your feeling away. It's like trying to shut off a warning

sign.

>

> But, don't worry: you can't.

>

> >>> But than I feel like I am in la-la land...

> >> oh, you are not asked to drop the thought.

> >> Just notice what that would be like.

> > OK.

> >

> >>> not

> >>> facing reality (or at least possibility). I am getting

frustrated

> >>> with myself that I cannot see this the way that will bring me

peace.

> >> Oh, you can, didn't you realize? It just isn't for long,

because you

> >> still hang on to that thought.

> > I see that. I wonder why I fight myself so much over this.

> Sweetheart, you hold onto your world!

>

> Because you know it needs protection. If you want to keep it, you

> have to fight for it. And this is the price: depression, sadness,

> anxiety, fear, etc.

Very true.

>

> So as long as you are willing to pay, you can keep it.

>

> And if not, the universe vanishes and gets replaced with a kinder

one.

It's happening!!!

>

> Love,

>

Love,

Caren

>

September 30, 2007

Dear Carol,

>>>> And they are not peaceful thoughts. I

>>>> am just so sad she's gone and I'm so sad she chose suicide. It

>>>> would have been so much easier if she had died in a car

>>>> accident.

>>> Is that true?

>>> It seems true to me.

>> What if you had to answer with " yes " or " no " ?

> Yes, it would have been easier to deal with if she had dies in a car

> accident rather than by suicide. Definitely. But I might not have

> gone looking like I did to find help.

So, overall, what would you say: She should not have commited suicide.

Is that true?

Pleas answer with " yes " or " no " . And take your time, this is a tought

one.

>>> It is common,...

>> Caren, did you ever care for what " common " is? If I hurt, I hurt.

>> Everyone in the world can be ok with it, no one could ever have

>> suffered from what I suffer, and still I do suffer. My work is

>> about me and NO ONE has anything to do with it.

>> It is your world you are exploring.

>>> ...I understand, for those left by suicide to have a more

>>> complicated time than with other deaths.

>> And yes, it is. The only difference being the thoughts we believe

>> around suicide.

> Yes, There are many more thoughts to work through.

And: one at a time.

This is where we start: here and now.

It's always a beginning.

>>> A tragic accident is very bad, but a self-inflicted death

>>> created a

>>> lot more feelings and thoughts to deal with. A lot of " whys "

>>> that

>>> will never, never, ever be answered.

>> The are not there to be answered, just to be noticed. That way

>> you

>> get aware of your " why " s. And those " why " s I have trouble with

>> are

>> usually the ones I don't come to from a position of curiosity.

> You're very right. I am not looking at the " why " s froma position of

> curiosity. I am looking at it from a demanding child's

> perspective. And " don't know " has not been acceptable. I used to

> think I NEEDED to know why she killed herself. Now I don't think I

> need to know. The reason I say " I think " is because I wonder if

> this feeling of not needing to know is going to fade away.

What is going to happen has no importance to me. Let me get this

straight, NOW.

If I can deal with the problems I have now, that's good enough for me.

>>> At least I know that it has been true for me.

>> Good, this is where you start answering the question.

>>> Also, if she had died of another cause, I wouldn't have had the

>>> overwhelming feeling that I would (or should) also commit

>>> suicide

>>> one day.

>>> They have found and named a suicide gene and learning about

>>> that

>>> was devastating. The correlation of the second identical twin

>>> committing suicide (even those identical twins separated at

>>> birth)

>>> is very high after one twin commits suicide. I don't want to

>>> commit suicide but I do feel like I have a ticking time bomb

>>> inside

>>> of me. I feel like one day I will do it, without even wanting

>>> to,

>>> and inflict pain upon my children, husband and friends. This

>>> thought is what wakes me up in the middle of the night. So,

>>> yeah,

>>> it would have been easier to have her die in a different manner.

>> Sweetheart, it's a thought. It's purpose is to be explored.

>> Fears are a story of the future. - It's exciting to investigate

>> them.

>> They are so... intense.

>> You will commit suicide one day. - That's sort of the worst that

>> can

>> happen, isn't it?

>> And can you absolutely know that that's true?

>> And what is the worst that will happen, next?

> That fear is not with me now.

Good.

> I'm not sure where it went but I'm

> not so scared anymore. I think I am just not believing every

> thought that passes through my head anymore. : )

Great!

>> You read about a suicide-gene in some book. Someone told you. Who

>> would you be without HIS story? Kids are afraid of the boogeyman

>> (probably not - but you get the message?)

> Just because it is genetic doesn't mean I will do it. I never

> wanted to do it before her suicide.

Exactly.

So if someone tells you: " oh, that's horrible, that means that you

are at risk to do it as well. " you can say: " Interesting. I thought

so, too and I don't feels as if I was at risk, right now. "

>>>>> There are such taboos in our society around suicide.

>>>> Turn that around.

>>> There are no taboos in our suicide around suicide. (???) Is

>>> that

>>> right?

>> I don't know. How could that be true? What comes to mind is that

>> there are lots of books, self-help groups,... around this issue?

>> Do you know any?

> Yes, lots of self-help groups and books. Still, people don't like

> to talk about it. It makes people uncomfortable.

Looks different to me: some people are sometimes uncomfortable about

it, and some even tell you how to deal with it.

And at least one even has the courage and come forward and ask for

help AND really work on it.

You may be a pioneer who shows everebody how to get clear around this!

>>> I have taboos around suicide. Very true.

>> There it is. You are the one who has an issue with it. Who judges

>> it

>> as a bad thing.

>> What society says is society's business.

> True.

>>>>> I am angry. I do blame her. Her act led to a LOT of pain and

>>>>> sadness.

>>>> Yes. Don't try to hide your anger.

>>> But I somehow feel like I'm not doing this work right because I

>>> do

>>> feel so many bad feelings. I guess they will get less as I do

>>> more

>>> work. I do seem to have a never-ending supply. ; )

>> How can a feeling be bad?

> It makes me feel bad.

Yes, when you think you shouldn't have it.

I learned that even pain isn't as bad if I don't believe that it'll

last.

The worst thing is: I am in pain and I believe: this will never be over!

And I found out I was wrong.

EVERY TIME so far.

>> Pain is a gentle reminder that you are believing a thought that

>> is not true for you.

>> So hide your feeling away. It's like trying to shut off a warning

>> sign.

>> But, don't worry: you can't.

>>>>> But than I feel like I am in la-la land...

>>>> oh, you are not asked to drop the thought.

>>>> Just notice what that would be like.

>>> OK.

>>>>> not

>>>>> facing reality (or at least possibility). I am getting

>>>>> frustrated

>>>>> with myself that I cannot see this the way that will bring me

>>>>> peace.

>>>> Oh, you can, didn't you realize? It just isn't for long,

>>>> because you

>>>> still hang on to that thought.

>>> I see that. I wonder why I fight myself so much over this.

>> Sweetheart, you hold onto your world!

>> Because you know it needs protection. If you want to keep it, you

>> have to fight for it. And this is the price: depression, sadness,

>> anxiety, fear, etc.

> Very true.

>> So as long as you are willing to pay, you can keep it.

>> And if not, the universe vanishes and gets replaced with a kinder

>> one.

> It's happening!!!

That is so good to hear!

Love,

September 30, 2007

oh thanks now that makes sense.. i do try to live other

peoples lives.. like my kids should do blah blah..

and miss my own life.. so true..

my kids dont listen anyway..

i know i should do what i think they should..

thanks roslyn

-- In Loving-what-is , wrote:

>

> Dear Roslyn,

>

> Am 26.09.2007 um 06:49 schrieb mrcitrus6:

>

> > alexander I didnt get this line.. -

> >

> >> Finally you get to do something on your own. You get to live.

> >> Actually that's something very few people get to have.

> > what does that mean.. we all are living our lives seemingly

> > alone.. i know in reality we are all one..

> > But as separate bodies.. seems to me we are all alone...

> > well in illusion.. what did you mean?

> I referred to " get to do something on your own: live " not to " be alone " .

> Most people try to live other peoples lives and get to miss their own.

>

> > thanks roslyn

> Love,

>

> > -- In Loving-what-is , <olli_26@> wrote:

> >>

> >> Dear Caren,

> >>

> >>>>> " I see that her sacrifice has benefitted me becuause

> >>>>> it has led me to this self-examination which has brought me a

> >>>>> measure of peace. "

> >>>> This sounds like the next belief to work on. This is clearly a

> >>>> judgment statement rather then observation. Do you absolutely know

> >>>> it's true she has sacrificed herself or is it your perception?

> >>> No. I can't know that. Thank you for pointing this out.

> >> If you want to do a work on it, I'd look for the simple judgement

> >> here, like " Her suicide is helpful to me " .

> >>

> >> It sure doesn't look to me like that, though. I don't hear you are

> >> living a great life, full of happiness.

> >>

> >>>> Why do you chose to see it this way?

> >>> I don't know why I choose to see it this way. Maybe there is a part

> >>> of me that wants to be punished.

> >> " maybe " is slippery. Caren, you really want to be punished. Is that

> >> really true?

> >>

> >>> At conception, we were one cell.

> >>> People talk about twins having the closest relatonship there is. We

> >>> weren't even close enough to have her let me know her plans or give

> >>> me an opportunity to help.

> >> Well, that's how twin-life is supposed to be. That's the real thing.

> >> For you. It's never what you hear someone say.

> >>

> >>> I'm scared.

> >> Yes. Can you get down from what?

> >>

> >> Fear is a story of the future.

> >>

> >>> We shared a bed until we

> >>> were 7 and lived together until we were 20. And now I have to live

> >>> the rest of my life without her.

> >> Finally you get to do something on your own. You get to live.

> >>

> >> Actually that's something very few people get to have.

> >>

> >>> I'm just very sad. I get a good life and she didn't.

> >> So let's blame ourselves.

> >>

> >> You get a life full of being miserable, blaming yourself, sadness and

> >> fear. As it is now.

> >>

> >> I wonder: if that's the good life, ...?

> >>

> >> As soon as an existence starts, it is already full and complete. No

> >> one dies before his time.

> >>

> >> Your sister even got to choose when and where. It's not that she

> >> didn't see it coming.

> >>

> >> But if it had been a car accident, for instance, your grief would

> >> have been different, wouldn't it? You could still blame yourself for

> >> not having got close enough to her, talked enough, seen her enough,

> >> told her enough how much you loved her, etc. But it would have been

> >> different.

> >>

> >> That's the part to explore.

> >>

> >>>> Why does her action have to be labeled?

> >>> I guess I label all actions because it helps me try to make sense of

> >>> things. I know...not working. : )

> >> That's how mind works, it labels. Thoughts come up.

> >>

> >> You just don't have to believe them.

> >>

> >>>> I do not see how you benefited from her suicide, you are going

> >>>> through

> >>>> enormous pain, looking for ways to suffer, to understand her and

> >>>> her

> >>>> actions. Where is the benefit here? Are you referring to the fact

> >>>> that

> >>>> you have started self exploration process?

> >>> Yes.

> >> And what does that have to do with your sister?

> >>

> >>>> As a person who once tried to commit suicide i can tell you

> >>>> i wanted the easy way out as i didn't have the energy to deal

> >>>> with

> >>>> all the work and challenges in this life. So i actually can see

> >>>> great

> >>>> benefit in death.

> >>> I'm sorry you went though that. I would like to think that Sharon

> >>> is peaceful somewhere and having a good time and maybe is going to

> >>> get another chance at life.

> >> Yes. But you don't believe in that, do you?

> >>

> >> So instead of worshipping a new belief, let's deal with the ones we

> >> have, already.

> >>

> >> And you would like for the universe to stop, move back a couple of

> >> months, maybe to your childhood into a specific situation, so that

> >> you could make a difference, that would turn the world and time a

> >> much better place for everyone. For you, specifically. And it's ok to

> >> see it that way and to believe what you do believe. Just get clear on

> >> what price you want to pay for these beliefs.

> >>

> >>> Maybe death will turn out to be a benefit for all of us.

> >> Could be.

> >>

> >> What is " death " , anyway?

> >>

> >>>>> " But what then comes up is a guilty feeling because her death is

> >>>>> benefitting me. I question why she couldn't have found " The

> >>>>> Work "

> >>>>> before she killed herself because then she may not have done

> >>>>> it.

> >>>>> This is linked into the fact that she was extremely unhappy and

> >>>>> hopeless. How do I know this? Happy, hopeful people don't

> >>>>> murder

> >>>>> themselves. I am unable to find beauty in this. "

> >>>> This whole paragraph also sound like something to question. Let me

> >>>> ask

> >>>> you another question. Why/how can you honor her choice? Clearly you

> >>>> think she has made the wrong choice you think she should have found

> >>>> " The Work " or something else and should have worked on her

> >>>> unhappiness

> >>>> so you wouldn't have to be left alone and wonder about why she did

> >>>> it?

> >>> Selfish, isn't it, to want to go back and change her actions to make

> >>> myself feel better and not be left here alone?

> >> That's what is commonly interpreted as " love " by some.

> >>

> >>> I can honor her

> >>> choice by thinking of her as being empowered and making a choice

> >>> that she wanted.

> >> Good. Can you? That would actually give her a life! Instead of being

> >> something that must be controlled so that it makes the right

> >> decisions.

> >>

> >>> But then a new thought creeps in. Before she did

> >>> it, she wrecked her whole house and destroyed many things.

> >> Looks like her choice, as well.

> >>

> >> She didn't need these things anymore, anyway.

> >>

> >>> She was

> >>> clearly enraged. It's hard to honor her choice when it seems that

> >>> she went kicking and screaming to her suicide.

> >> That's not her, that's actually you.

> >>

> >>> Still her choice, I

> >>> know, but it wasn't a peaceful scene at all.

> >> Because you are the instance we ask for what peace looks like.

> >>

> >> She's kicking and screaming and throwing things around... that's

> >> intense. She's really feeling herself! She is experiencing her body,

> >> hearing her voice...

> >>

> >> Most people actually take lots of drugs to get there.

> >>

> >> She doesn't have to be careful what not to break, not to listen to a

> >> concept of future. Just living in the moment, fully!

> >>

> >> She is even wrecking her house! Lots of people become horrified only

> >> at the thought that that could happen to their house.

> >>

> >> It's a ritual. She is letting go of things. It's her way of packing.

> >>

> >> And it does look different from yours.

> >>

> >> So experience her last minutes the way you would want them: peaceful,

> >> firm deciscion, even a ritual maybe. And ask yourself, if that's what

> >> you would really want for her. In spite of her having preferred a

> >> different way of leaving.

> >>

> >> You think you can feel her pain. You can't. Never ever.

> >>

> >> All the pain you get to experience is yours. And you don't have to

> >> hurt physically to experience physical pain. But it's always your

> >> pain. Her pain is not yours. It's hers.

> >>

> >> If you want to experience this " my pain/your pain " thing a little

> >> more: think of you getting the whole pain from both of you. She is

> >> having a painless life. And here's the deal: No one will ever notice

> >> that you took her pain, no one will ever know. You get to be full of

> >> pain enough for two people's life. And there's no one to acknowledge,

> >> or even notice or care for what you did.

> >> Is that what you had in mind? Or was there a motive. Get clear on

> >> your motives, because they are a tricky deal: you expect to get your

> >> part, and if you don't, you blame the others.

> >>

> >>>> Another thing i wanted to advise you is get help. This is a very

> >>>> big

> >>>> issue and you probably need someone to hear you, probably a

> >>>> professional, especially since it's your identical twin. You're

> >>>> going

> >>>> through grief and many other issues, you would benefit greatly from

> >>>> some counseling/facilitation.

> >>> I had been seeing an excellent therapist for over two years alresdy

> >>> at the time of Sharon's death. But just two months ago, my

> >>> therapist moved out of state and comes back once a month to see me.

> >>> She was stressing " practicing presence " at out last appointment

> >>> which, after exploring my library, I came to find .

> >>>

> >>>> There are so many questions to ask

> >>>> yourself and this can be a great opportunity to learn about

> >>>> yourself.

> >>>> If you go through this process alone, it's very hard not to get

> >>>> dragged into self blame, judgment (of everybody involved),

> >>>> accusations.

> >>> I have been firmly planted in that very place.

> >> Yes, you have lived that long enough, haven't you?

> >>

> >>>> I honor and admire the work you are doing. I hope you find your

> >>>> peace.

> >>> Thank you, Rina, for all of this.

> >> And thank you.

> >>

> >> Love,

> >>

>

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