Re: Cassandra and Apollo (Maxine Aston) -Workshop feedback

March 3, 2012

What is FAAAS? Been meaning to ask for a while...~ "Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal."--Albert Camus Sent from my VZW BlackBerrySender: aspires-relationships Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2012 16:04:53 -0800To: <aspires-relationships >ReplyTo: aspires-relationships Subject: "Cassandra and Apollo" (Maxine Aston)-Workshop feedback Hi Becky: I am so glad you had a positive experience. I have always liked Maxine and it is no big secrete I defend the concept of Cassandra. I experienced that with my own family as my ex-spouse self-diagnosed after our son was diagnosed, and my family blamed me and I had nothing to do with Larry identifying with AS. He did that all on his own. It took 10 years with autism being in the media before my mother said, “Wow, they are saying what you were saying 10 years ago. I am sorry for what we said to you”. The professionals, well …they did not have a clue of adult AS back in those days and just addressed the behaviors as domestic violence and issues ofcontrol. I just sent an invite to join ASPIRES to a partner who just came back from Maxine’s workshop. I wonder if she was at the same work shop and what her experience was? Thanks for taking the time to report back to us. Cassandra has been a trigger for many in our community for a variety of reasons. I am so happy you took the time to share your experience with us and it was a healthy and positive one. As far as Tony Attwood, he wasthe key note speaker at several FAAAS conferences and they originally coined the phrase that has changed over time. Sleep tight as you deserve it! Best to you and your family.

March 3, 2012

Becky, thanks for the report, it sounds like you had a wonderful, positive seminar. I found inspiration in your message although I don't have an Aspie spouse, I have an adult Aspie son and love him deeply and try to see that he progresses well in the world in spite of all. Your phrase " can be like living with a terribly well meaning and accidental nuclear leakage." brought a wry smile to my lips. Bob

March 5, 2012

Hi Cheryl.

My situation is very clear cut and not part of my often mistaken AS perspective.

My wife reacted very badly to the realisation that I have AS. We've known for

about 18 months now and in that time I have beeen looking for ways to compensate

for my natural behaviour.

My wife has made it clear that I have to sort myself out on my own, because this

is my problem. She has no intention of working with me.

She has also stated very clearly that she still cares for me but she no longer

loves me and that we live in the same house only for the sake of our daughters.

It has also. Been made very clear by word of mouth and in writing that I must

not do anything to show any emotion or feelings that I have for her as this

" puts her under pressure " . (I do not understand the last and often made

statement.)

The outlook is not good. I sincerely hope that this account has no analogy with

your own situation.

I can however understand where your partner is coming from. When I had a

relationship, before realising about my AS, I could get very frustrated when

efforts to be close to my wife and show her support were rejected. It is

difficult fot NTs to understand their partner's needs and feelings from time to

time. I now know that my AS made it even more difficult for me to understand

when and what kind of support, if any, that my wife needed. More often than not

I would read the signs very wrong and feel as though the negetive reaction was

aimed at me because of something that I had done, which I now know was not

necessarly the case.

Best wishes

Steve

>

> Hi Steve,

>

> Interesting that you say you are not permitted to try to connect

> emotionally.

>

> My partner will say " you will not let me be there for you " and I respond

> that being there on any level is not my choice to make FOR him but his

> choice to make for himself.

>

> I would be very interested in a further description of your perspective to

> help me understand this difference better.

>

> Thanks!

>

> Cheryl - NT

March 5, 2012

Steve --

Wow … it's not only us Aspies who can be clueless! I've never met your wife, I'm

sure she has some good qualities, but I don't like her much.

First, how old are your daughters? If they're over 10 or so, they will see that

you and your wife are in a loveless marriage, and this won't make them feel

secure … worse, they may assume that's how *their* partnerships should be. A

divorce where you stay very involved with your girls may be better than your

current marriage for them.

The " puts her under pressure " probably means that when you are affectionate, she

feels guilt and resentment that she can't/doesn't want to reciprocate, so she

feels bad and " it's all your fault " . It isn't, this is her own problem (that you

could help her with if she let you).

Some ideas, adapted from the Married Man Sex Life blog by Athol Kay (which I

really, really like):

- ignore your wife. Be the best man you can be. Be an excellent father, get

yourself in shape, dress well, advance your career … in short, work on the

" check list " traits of an ideal husband/father.

- Have fun. Go out without your wife occasionally, go to concerts, etc.

- The MMSL blog would suggest you do a little flirting, but for us Aspies,

that's probably too dangerous -- how much is " a little " , when the goal is to put

your wife on edge but not to have an affair.

The goal of the above is to increase your attractiveness and desirability. You

want your wife to think, " Oh, Steve's gotten a lot hotter, I'd better be nice or

someone else may take him from me. " And if she doesn't think this, it puts you

in a good position if you ever do say " I won't live this way any more. "

This is advanced social skills stuff, and Athol Kay explains it much better than

I can.

--Liz

wishing I had had a husband who wanted to work on our issues together

>

> Hi Cheryl.

>

> My situation is very clear cut and not part of my often mistaken AS

perspective. My wife reacted very badly to the realisation that I have AS. We've

known for about 18 months now and in that time I have beeen looking for ways to

compensate for my natural behaviour.

>

> My wife has made it clear that I have to sort myself out on my own, because

this is my problem. She has no intention of working with me.

>

> She has also stated very clearly that she still cares for me but she no longer

loves me and that we live in the same house only for the sake of our daughters.

It has also. Been made very clear by word of mouth and in writing that I must

not do anything to show any emotion or feelings that I have for her as this

" puts her under pressure " . (I do not understand the last and often made

statement.)

>

> The outlook is not good. I sincerely hope that this account has no analogy

with your own situation.

>

> I can however understand where your partner is coming from. When I had a

relationship, before realising about my AS, I could get very frustrated when

efforts to be close to my wife and show her support were rejected. It is

difficult fot NTs to understand their partner's needs and feelings from time to

time. I now know that my AS made it even more difficult for me to understand

when and what kind of support, if any, that my wife needed. More often than not

I would read the signs very wrong and feel as though the negetive reaction was

aimed at me because of something that I had done, which I now know was not

necessarly the case.

>

> Best wishes

>

> Steve

>

>>

>> Hi Steve,

>>

>> Interesting that you say you are not permitted to try to connect

>> emotionally.

>>

>> My partner will say " you will not let me be there for you " and I respond

>> that being there on any level is not my choice to make FOR him but his

>> choice to make for himself.

>>

>> I would be very interested in a further description of your perspective to

>> help me understand this difference better.

>>

>> Thanks!

>>

>> Cheryl - NT

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> " We each have our own way of living in the world, together we are

like a symphony.

> Some are the melody, some are the rhythm, some are the harmony

> It all blends together, we are like a symphony, and each part is crucial.

> We all contribute to the song of life. "

> ...Sondra

>

> We might not always agree; but TOGETHER we will make a difference.

>

> ASPIRES is a closed, confidential, moderated list.

> Responsibility for posts to ASPIRES lies entirely with the original author.

> Do NOT post mail off-list without the author's permission.

> When in doubt, please refer to our list rules at:

> http://www.aspires-relationships.com/info_rules.htm

> ASPIRES ~ Climbing the mountain TOGETHER

> http://www.aspires-relationships.com

>

March 5, 2012

Hi Steve,

I had written a longish reply the last time you spoke about your wife's

expressed thoughts on closeness, but it sat in my drafts box and I never posted

it. I might still post it, but would have to edit it. It's been a few months.

Based on what you had shared previously, back in the summer, I do not think that

the barriers to closeness between you and your wife is something you can " fix "

any more. It does not originate from any present failing you have, but rather,

ancient history. I speak from personal experience. I am sorry.

Trying to tease out what the reasons for this are, whether it's her menopause,

" Cassandra, " or whatever, based on what your wife has said, none of of that is

going to change the present day reality. When an AS spouse has told his NT wife

he no longer loves her, we often tell NT spouse that this seems pretty final,

and exploring the whole issue of how AS impacted on their relationship is moot

now, they need to rebuild their sense of self and a point where they can imagine

an independent future.

However, as is commonly the situation with some NT wives with children still at

home, I gather that at the age your children are at right now, separation is not

yet practical. Of course, you will continue to develop and reinforce a solid

relationship with your children. If I recall correctly, your youngest child has

AS, and you have a closer relationship with her since you understand her

challenges.

You are still their dad and always will be their only dad, and I know from your

previous posts that you have taken your role and responsibility very seriously,

which is far, far better than can be said for too many so- called " normal "

parents.

With the understanding you now have about AS (in previous posts it's clear you

are one bright guy and you really do " get " it) you are realizing you need to

continue to work on your own development, and it sounds like you are doing

admirably in becoming self aware. There's lots of hope for your future, if you

can imagine a changed one, but one that is still healthy for all of you.

Hope this helps,

Helen