Re: Re: Social cues as an adult

[Guest guest]

gcaspiesinchatt wrote, in part:

<< In terms of behavior mod, I feel that people with AS can learn what it means to be in a relationship where both people are cherished and loved. Maybe it's not how society sees things, but I don't what care what society thinks of my best friend and me. When my time comes, do you think society is going to stop all of a sudden to salute the positive things I did to help create change and or to make a change in people's lives? Seriously not. My definition of success is to do the very best I could that day. That includes modifying my behavior. People and couples are looking for positive examples of others, espcially in the type of relationship where at least one person grew up with "special needs." >> I hope you'll forgive me for snipping so very much of your thoughtful post; I really appreciated all of your comments. The line that jumped out at me the most, though, was the first

sentence in this paragraph. Where you write "people with AS can learn what it means to be in a relationship where both people are cherished and loved" -- with my husband, who is at least border AS, I [almost] never doubt that he loves me and cherishes me, at least on an intellectual and deep emotional level. (The in-between gets muddy.) In our relationship, it's the difference between "where both people are cherished and loved" and "where both people *feel* cherished and loved." I feel hughly lonely. Often. I know intellectually that my borderline(?)-AS husband loves me, but sometimes it feels as if he loves the idea of me or me as the warmth in the bed next to him. So while I'm aware that he loves me intensely, I'm not always sure what that means to him. We're in counseling, finally, to try to bridge this gap. So back to the difference between "are cherished and

loved" and "feel cherished and loved." The behavior mod there *I need* would be for him to show through his speech and actions that he is connected, that he does care. For his interactions to communicate his emotions more. He doesn't know how to do that very well, or at least at all consistently. And if he's expecting any kind of an "negative" emotional emotion from me, even if it has absolutely nothing to with him, it's even harder for him. Any of us, all of us, can only do the best we can do that day. I think, though, that sometimes it's hard to acknowledge to ourselves what our best might be. In the case of my husband and me, where there's been "bad behavior" on both sides -- our potential "best" might be far better than I or he know or admit to ourselves, and we can and need to step up. Or maybe not. Maybe this is the best it gets. I find that

last thought really unnerving and depressing. pinot

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[Guest guest]

> I hope you'll forgive me for snipping so very much of your thoughtful

> post; I really appreciated all of your comments. The line that jumped

> out at me the most, though, was the first sentence in this paragraph.

> Where you write " people with AS can learn what it means to be in a

> relationship where both people are cherished and loved " -- with my

> husband, who is at least border AS, I [almost] never doubt that he loves

> me and cherishes me, at least on an intellectual and deep emotional

> level. (The in-between gets muddy.)

That's a very nice thought, and I wish it could always be true, but I

have to cast doubt on your assumption and reliance that the loving and

cherishing will always be there. It's a precious commodity that's quite

often lacking. Sadly I have to admit that it's lacking between myself

and my wife. I'd say neither of us really love or cherish each other;

we merely co-exist.

In our case we don't even get to the trying but not knowing how to do it

stage, we don't even want to make the effort to try.

So the way I see it, if you feel deep down that you are cherished and

loved but that your partner has difficulty expressing it in your terms,

you are still very lucky that you have that conviction, and you are

still way ahead of others such as ourselves.

[Guest guest]

Loved, lonely, and miserable isn't a great place to be, either. And comparisons are irrelevant, in my opinion. You deal with what you deal with. That's my spin on it, at least. pinot To:

aspires-relationships Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 7:40 AM Subject: Re: Re: Social cues as an adult

> I hope you'll forgive me for snipping so very much of your thoughtful

> post; I really appreciated all of your comments. The line that jumped

> out at me the most, though, was the first sentence in this paragraph.

> Where you write "people with AS can learn what it means to be in a

> relationship where both people are cherished and loved" -- with my

> husband, who is at least border AS, I [almost] never doubt that he loves

> me and cherishes me, at least on an intellectual and deep emotional

> level. (The in-between gets muddy.)

That's a very nice thought, and I wish it could always be true, but I

have to cast doubt on your assumption and reliance that the loving and

cherishing will always be there. It's a precious commodity that's quite

often lacking. Sadly I have to admit that it's lacking between myself

and my wife. I'd say neither of us really love or cherish each other;

we merely co-exist.

In our case we don't even get to the trying but not knowing how to do it

stage, we don't even want to make the effort to try.

So the way I see it, if you feel deep down that you are cherished and

loved but that your partner has difficulty expressing it in your terms,

you are still very lucky that you have that conviction, and you are

still way ahead of others such as ourselves.

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much for your responses. I think that being honest and open with your girlfriend is hugely important. I'm glad to see that. From my knot hole -- I'd rather have my husband say something straight out (preferably with a modicum of tact) than have to fish around or guess at it. He'll act out (passive aggressive) or avoid people (including my daughter and me) instead of saying anything he thinks might be ill received. So, that's one of things we're working on in counseling -- him speaking up appropriately *and* me being better about accepting a negative from him. My usual response, honestly, is relief at not having to second guess him. I think he finds that surprising, that I *don't* get upset with him, which is making it easier in turn for him to speak

up. Baby steps is right, and I think we are making them. It's good for me to stop in my tracks and realize that. Sometimes, frankly, I do lose faith. We've been married almost 25 years now, and there's been a lot of "one step forward, two steps back." In the past, he's been able to hold onto a behavior change for maybe 6 to 8 months before it sapping too much energy out of him. Although when we had a life crisis and our daughter was ill, he kept it together for the entire time; we all did, we had to. In some ways, it was easier having a focus. But back to baby steps. This is our first time working with a psychologist. So maybe it can be different, if both of us want that, I think or at least hope so. Some days I despair; sometimes I'm gratified by "simple" things he does that shows how very hard, in that moment, he's trying.

I've never kept a journal of our relationship. I've been computer bound for so many years (I'm not inclined to journal on computer, I don't know why), and I haven't kept a journal since years ago, when I filled up spiral notebooks. Funny timing for your question. I just bought a lined journal (a step up from spiral notebooks!) to start writing things down again. Thanks again for you comments. I really appreciate them; you've given me a fair amount to think about. pinor To: aspires-relationships Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 7:48 AM Subject: Re: Social cues as an adult

** - my comments, K.

>

> I hope you'll forgive me for snipping so very much of your thoughtful post; I really appreciated all of your comments. The line that jumped out at me the most, though, was the first sentence in this paragraph. Where you write "people with AS can learn what it means to be in a relationship where both people are cherished and loved" -- with my husband, who is at least border AS, I [almost] never doubt that he loves me and cherishes me, at least on an intellectual and deep emotional level. (The in-between gets muddy.)

** Thanks, pinot, for your comments. I think when I said, "...where both people are cherished and loved".. I should have qualified that with the word, feel, before loved and cherished. That was the point I was trying to make. Anyone can learn what it means, intellectually, what it means to be loved and cherished. But, another to feel that.

Â

> I feel hughly lonely. Often. I know intellectually that my borderline(?)-AS husband loves me, but sometimes it feels as if he loves the idea of me or me as the warmth in the bed next to him. So while I'm aware that he loves me intensely, I'm not always sure what that means to him. We're in counseling, finally, to try to bridge this gap.

** Good to see that you both are getting professional help in this area of your lives. I am sorry to hear that you feel lonely as much as you do, but I am hopeful that things will improve in your relationship.

> So back to the difference between "are cherished and loved" and "feel cherished and loved." The behavior mod there *I need* would be for him to show through his speech and actions that he is connected, that he does care. For his interactions to communicate his emotions more. He doesn't know how to do that very well, or at least at all consistently. And if he's expecting any kind of an "negative" emotional emotion from me, even if it has absolutely nothing to with him, it's even harder for him.

** Yes. It's something my best friend and I work on as well. She has always told me to be honest with her, even if it's difficult for me to convey to her what it is that I wish to say.

> Any of us, all of us, can only do the best we can do that day. I think, though, that sometimes it's hard to acknowledge to ourselves what our best might be. In the case of my husband and me, where there's been "bad behavior" on both sides -- our potential "best" might be far better than I or he know or admit to ourselves, and we can and need to step up. Or maybe not. Maybe this is the best it gets.

> Â

> I find that last thought really unnerving and depressing.

> Â

> pinot

** Two steps forward, one back. Baby steps. It's easy in this world where everyone expects so much right away that we are all expected to improve by leaps and bounds just like that. However, it's all about making gradual (the key word) improvement. Things are not always going to be what we hope, each and every day. Have you thought about keeping a journal about your relationship, or have you done something like that previously? If you haven't, might be worth something to consider.

K.

[Guest guest]

Eyre wrote (1/16/2012):

[ snip ]

> Sadly I have to admit that it's lacking between myself

> and my wife. I'd say neither of us really love or cherish each other;

> we merely co-exist.

>

> In our case we don't even get to the trying but not knowing how to do it

> stage, we don't even want to make the effort to try.

[ snip ]

I hesitated a long while -- whether or not to ask: If it truly is so

bleak for the two of you, what's the point of staying together? Is

there some value in it I'm missing??

I'm thinking of the old /Burton flick " Who's afraid of Virginia

Woolf " . Is that the two of you?

-Bill ...AS, retired geneticist

--

WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

[Guest guest]

WD Loughman wrote:

>

> I hesitated a long while -- whether or not to ask: If it truly is so

> bleak for the two of you, what's the point of staying together? Is

> there some value in it I'm missing??

>

Unless I'm confusing with another member, I seem remember a

previous post where the pragmatics of a split were discussed. Something

about the financial costs involved, and perhaps even a citizenship issue.

Sometimes couples remain together because it's just too darn complicated

and expensive to do otherwise. Especially when the individuals involved

are older folks.

Best,

~CJ