Re: A Question for the Professional Side

[Guest guest]

I think that you should tell them regardless of what they think. But a

few spore tests that

came back with one species does not tell thw whole story. There were

probably many other

molds there. Whenever you have a really bad situation there are many species.

Imagine a Pollock painting in which each color is a different

kind of mold, and

then you throw five or six darts at it, and record what is under what

the dart hit.

Spore testing is a fairly random process. In my case, I had lots of

tests done by

two different labs, and there were all sorts of results but one mold

came back quite a few times

among the others. Is that what you mean, or were they all " Chaetomium " only?

Did you do QPCR? By virtue of the fact that each QPCR works on a

larger sample of dust,

it has the ptential to be more of an broader and more specific picture

of a mold situation going

back several months or even years,

not just that one or several CFU that you took the bulk or tape lift

samples from.

Does that make sense?

Unfortunately, it wasn't available when I was in your situation.

You know that at least some of the samples should have been taken (and sent in)

by someone else. (because of chain of custody blah blah blah)

Or, alternatively, videotaped continuously during collection placement

into envelope, and mailing, IN ONE PASS, with timestamp,

if possible (assuming you live near a mailbox) That could save you

thousands of dollars that you might otherwise

have to spend to pay someone to do that.

If some were and some weren't, if they are telling a consistant

pattern, it matters less.

On Jan 8, 2008 11:32 PM, happyruiam <happyru@...> wrote:

> I have a Personal need to know what type of MOLD I was exposed to..

> which I have pretty much aquired the answer to, (many Chaetomium spores

> were identified)again on a personal level. My Question is, Is it viable

> info for MDs to know in regards to specific treatments for illness and

> also is it helpful for an Attorney to know?

>

[Guest guest]

The question you have asked is much more complex than it may seem - and it's not

quite clear what you are asking about 'viability.'

Yes, certain doctors will understand the significance of exposure to different

kinds of fungi and will then have a good idea of what to test you for and help

you with.

I realize I've written this to you before so I'll sound like a broken record:

most doctors will glaze over when you say mold and stop listening to you. Most

don't know Apergillus from a hole in the ground, for instance. You know those

old New Yorker cartoons about what your cat hears when you speak to him? It's

like that, only the doctors will be thinking 'crazy, crazy, nuts, insane.' Ask

anyone who's been on the list for any length of time - we've all been told

repeatedly that our symptoms are all in our heads.

So, YES, that information is very important to a doctor who knows what to do

with it. To the rest, it might as well be written on toilet paper. You don't

have to believe me now, you'll learn it yourself when you present lab work and

doctors look at you like they'd feel a little more comfortable if you were in a

straight jacket.

As far as being helpful to an attorney. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Excellent,

side-splitting question. If you can find an attorney who has a discernable

attention span, maybe. First, you gotta find someone who believes you and is

willing to take a financial risk on your story - this can be extremely

difficult, even with tons of pathology work. Then you have to cross your

fingers that this is a person who actually wants you to get something akin to

justice and who isn't hell-bent on a quick settlement that doesn't require

him/her to break a sweat with doing things like working up the case to make a

full argument.

Sure - get the data if you can afford the testing to figure all this stuff

out. Since you have sewer issues in your situation, remember to be testing for

bacterial endotoxins and other contaminants beyond the fungal... for whatever

reason, bacteria seems more 'real' to folks, it seems. You say 'mold' and

people think fairytales. I've been seeking answers of what to test for outside

of mold and I haven't gotten any clear direction.

I don't mean to be harsh - I'm afraid you'll sound like me before too long,

once you've cracked your head hard enough into enough walls to amplify whatever

issues neurotoxicity has previously started.

~Haley

happyruiam <happyru@...> wrote:

I have a Personal need to know what type of MOLD I was exposed to..

which I have pretty much aquired the answer to, (many Chaetomium spores

were identified)again on a personal level. My Question is, Is it viable

info for MDs to know in regards to specific treatments for illness and

also is it helpful for an Attorney to know?

[Guest guest]

This MOLD has made my brain a mess...sorry if I am on a repeating

mode. Thanks for the reply.

> I have a Personal need to know what type of MOLD I was

exposed to..

> which I have pretty much aquired the answer to, (many Chaetomium

spores

> were identified)again on a personal level. My Question is, Is it

viable

> info for MDs to know in regards to specific treatments for illness

and

> also is it helpful for an Attorney to know?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It was only Chaetomium, with many sopres identified. If the wall was

opened up I'm sure it would paint a different picture. What is QPCR?

CFU?

>

> > I have a Personal need to know what type of MOLD I was exposed

to..

> > which I have pretty much aquired the answer to, (many Chaetomium

spores

> > were identified)again on a personal level. My Question is, Is it

viable

> > info for MDs to know in regards to specific treatments for

illness and

> > also is it helpful for an Attorney to know?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I enjoyed reading your post. By any chance, are you a Lawyer?

[Guest guest]

LiveSimply,

What a great word picture for mold sampling!

Imagine a Pollock painting in which each color is a different kind

of mold, and then you throw five or six darts at it, and record what is

under what the dart hit.

Do I have your permission to " steal " it? I'll give you credit, of

course.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

[Guest guest]

I don't know how true this is, but guy who tested my house told me

Trichoderma (Found in my van & condo) were concerning to him b/c it

doesn't usually exist w/o Chaetonium & Stachy, which are both highly

toxic. Just a FYI, if it is in fact true, then you may have Stachy

too, if you found Chaetonium.

Hugs, Cheryl

PS I know the Tricho made my brain like scrambled egs, too!

[Guest guest]

Did he give a reason or just say they usually co-exist? I'd be

interested in his reasoning because I don't find this to be true in

Colorado.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> I don't know how true this is, but guy who tested my house told me

> Trichoderma (Found in my van & condo) were concerning to him b/c it

> doesn't usually exist w/o Chaetonium & Stachy, which are both highly

> toxic. Just a FYI, if it is in fact true, then you may have Stachy

> too, if you found Chaetonium.

> Hugs, Cheryl

>

> PS I know the Tricho made my brain like scrambled egs, too!

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Cheryl: When Trichoderma Sp. is found, it is often observed as colonizing in

showers and other areas of high water concentration. Externally, this fungus is

commonly found in dead trees, pine needles, paper, soil and unglazed ceramics.

It is observed as producing antibiotics that are toxic to humans and is a known

allergen to animals and humans. This fungus is easily recognized by its fast

growing, quickly spreading white, green or yellow colonies. It is one of the

most widely spread soil fungi and is frequently isolated from varied

geographical locations. It colonizes on dead leaves, fallen timber, compost

heaps and on activated sludge. With other fungi such as Stachybotrys and

Fusarium, Trichoderma species are highly aggressive. They have the ability to

kill other fungi with their mycotoxins and then consume them using a combination

of enzymes. Because Trichoderma degrades cellulose, it is often found in water

or moisture damaged buildings. The Trichoderma species produces the following

mycotoxins: Tricothecenes and cyclic peptides, gliotoxin, isocyanides,

trichodermin, and trichotoxin A.

Hope this assists in answering your concerns as to this particular mold species.

Doug Haney

@...: grimes@...: Thu, 10 Jan 2008

18:53:36 -0700Subject: Re: [] Re: A Question for the Professional

Side

Did he give a reason or just say they usually co-exist? I'd be interested in his

reasoning because I don't find this to be true in Colorado.Carl GrimesHealthy

Habitats LLC-----> I don't know how true this is, but guy who tested my house

told me > Trichoderma (Found in my van & condo) were concerning to him b/c it >

doesn't usually exist w/o Chaetonium & Stachy, which are both highly > toxic.

Just a FYI, if it is in fact true, then you may have Stachy > too, if you found

Chaetonium.> Hugs, Cheryl> > PS I know the Tricho made my brain like scrambled

egs, too! > > > > FAIR USE NOTICE:> > >

[Guest guest]

No reasoning; just scared the pants off me when he said that cause I

was a mess physically & mentally while livng in condo & boys & I get

very nauseous in car when heat's on & we have to turn off heat & open

all windows(freeze our butts off) to get the smell out.

Like I said, don't know how true it is; yes he did say they co-exist &

Tricho came back Too numerous to count from both areas. Then again, my

house was tested many weeks ago & I still don't have results back yet.

I don't know what to believe any more, but thank you for your input; it

makes me feel a little better that you don't find that to be true.

Cheryl

[Guest guest]

Thanks Doug, that does help. The condo & van had yellow, black, green

spots everywhere & the wood furniture was degrading before my eyes.

The carpet had big white, black, yellow spots all over it. Carpet was

replaced, but new carpet already showing oily looking spots. It's hard

for me cause my husband doesn't think mold makes people sick, but I'm

seeing our belongings getting ruined despite my attempts to clean,

dust, etc. endlessly.

Cheryl

[Guest guest]

Cheryl: This post is specifically directed to your husband. I will not beat

around the bush as an environmental health researcher. I detest those who have

never bothered to even pick up a book who make the claim that, " Molds can't make

you sick! " How incredibly ignorant to do that sort of thing. Make that kind of

stupid statement to a medical doctor who has worked with Cancer or AIDS

surgeries over the past 35 years (I.E., having consistently observed tissue

colonization or organ rot based upon systemic fungal infections), or a scientist

involved in Medical Mycology related to the new frontier of medicine in the

" Molecular Sciences " , or environmental scientists who travel the world examining

the microbes first-hand, and realize how utterly stupid that sort of thought

process is in today's world. Is it worth all those medical bills, personal

frustrations, and health and safety of yourself and your family to carry your

personal beliefs about exposures to pathogenic microfungi species without

reading the science that is literally screaming otherwise?

I would be glad to debate the issues with you, because my thoughts were just as

" far left " as yours before I began studying these critically important sciences

concerning the characteristics and world of pathogenic microfungi.

Doug Haney

EnviroHealth Research & Consulting, Inc.

Email: _Haney52@...

@...: sunbum256@...: Fri, 11 Jan 2008

14:31:29 +0000Subject: [] Re: A Question for the Professional Side

Thanks Doug, that does help. The condo & van had yellow, black, green spots

everywhere & the wood furniture was degrading before my eyes. The carpet had big

white, black, yellow spots all over it. Carpet was replaced, but new carpet

already showing oily looking spots. It's hard for me cause my husband doesn't

think mold makes people sick, but I'm seeing our belongings getting ruined

despite my attempts to clean, dust, etc. endlessly.Cheryl

_________________________________________________________________

Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.

http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008

[Guest guest]

Cheryl,

I'm very sorry to hear that your husband thinks along this line, but

he is not the only one. There are many of us who have relatives,

friends and immediate family that think along these same lines

because it hasn't struck them yet. When it does, they still won't

listen. I have seen this many times and many still just roll their

eyes THEY JUST DON'T GET IT. If you would like I would be more than

happy to speak to your husband, I've done this many times, maybe we

can at least get the wheels turning and he'll start thinking

logically before some more tragic happens.

KC

>

>

> Cheryl: This post is specifically directed to your husband. I will

not beat around the bush as an environmental health researcher. I

detest those who have never bothered to even pick up a book who make

the claim that, " Molds can't make you sick! " How incredibly ignorant

to do that sort of thing. Make that kind of stupid statement to a

medical doctor who has worked with Cancer or AIDS surgeries over the

past 35 years (I.E., having consistently observed tissue

colonization or organ rot based upon systemic fungal infections), or

a scientist involved in Medical Mycology related to the new frontier

of medicine in the " Molecular Sciences " , or environmental scientists

who travel the world examining the microbes first-hand, and realize

how utterly stupid that sort of thought process is in today's world.

Is it worth all those medical bills, personal frustrations, and

health and safety of yourself and your family to carry your personal

beliefs about exposures to pathogenic microfungi species without

reading the science that is literally screaming otherwise?

>

> I would be glad to debate the issues with you, because my thoughts

were just as " far left " as yours before I began studying these

critically important sciences concerning the characteristics and

world of pathogenic microfungi.

>

> Doug Haney

> EnviroHealth Research & Consulting, Inc.

> Email: _Haney52@...

>

>

> @...: sunbum256@...: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:31:29

+0000Subject: [] Re: A Question for the Professional

Side

>

>

>

>

> Thanks Doug, that does help. The condo & van had yellow, black,

green spots everywhere & the wood furniture was degrading before my

eyes. The carpet had big white, black, yellow spots all over it.

Carpet was replaced, but new carpet already showing oily looking

spots. It's hard for me cause my husband doesn't think mold makes

people sick, but I'm seeing our belongings getting ruined despite my

attempts to clean, dust, etc. endlessly.Cheryl

>

>

>

>

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.

> http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?

ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think what you mean would the doctor know how to treat you if he knew

which mold you were exposed to, and answer is he SHOULD, but not many

doctors know how to treat for mold exposure, but back to what others

have said, you really don't know from one test. Many different things,

temperature, humidity, what is going on outside, if certain doors are

open or closed, etc that affect direction of air currents you don't

know from one sample. Mold is expensive to investigate and treat and

solve, if you can solve it. Anyway, you could have gotten all those

from one air current coming going past something in house and on

another test air current could be coming from somewhere else and pick

up other things. Direction of wind outside will affect too.

If you live there now, or work there now, you may want to target tests

for specific times like when you don't feel well, or when you are

having a bad day.

>

> I have a Personal need to know what type of MOLD I was exposed to..

> which I have pretty much aquired the answer to, (many Chaetomium

spores

> were identified)again on a personal level. My Question is, Is it

viable

> info for MDs to know in regards to specific treatments for illness

and

> also is it helpful for an Attorney to know?

>

[Guest guest]

Cheryl: When an Ostrich gets frightened and does not take the opportunity to

investigate the source of fear, the animal hides its head in the ground.

Unfortunately for the Ostrich, the obvious picture is that the world sees is the

anatomy that is highly visible. The world then scoffs at the poor dumb animal.

What part of your husband's anatomy is the rest of the world looking at? Like

both Doug and KC have stated, the indoor environment created by microbial growth

(bacteria and molds) along with their by-products (mycotoxins, endotoxins,

glucans, etc.) is unhealthy and deadly. I am currently involved in a situation

in Bermuda Police Buildings. They have had officers die, others with bleeding

brain aneurisms, some with polycystic kidneys, a host of officers developing

asthma and other health problems. I have reviewed the photos of the buildings

along with a Certified Industrial Examiner. We recommend that nonone go into

the buildings without full protective clothing and a respirator. The Police

Commissioner discovered mold in his office and immediatly vacated. However, he

insisteies that the police personnel continue to work in the contaminated

facility. Guess what part of his anatomy was exposed to the Bermuda Press and

what the Press did with it. Shame, Shame on him. Jack D. Thrasher, Ph.D.

P.S. Take your husband to www.moldenvironment.com and look at the postings that

Darlene and I are doing regarding human health of microbial growth. Make sure

is eyes, not his butt, is facing the video screen. So far we have posted

several articles on the health effects of endotoxins and glucans along with a

few others. This weekend we will be posting papers on the detection of

myctoxins in indoor microbial infested buildings. Next will be a section on

gram positive and negative bacteria along with their toxins.

[Guest guest]

please, let's not say that doctors dont know because they do. I have

a brain injury and still have managed to trace fungal infextions

thoughout the body. let's not make excuses for and start demanding

that they do what they get paid so well to do. thats diagnoseing

illnesses and treating them. believe me, they know what fungi does.

> >

> > I have a Personal need to know what type of MOLD I was exposed

to..

> > which I have pretty much aquired the answer to, (many Chaetomium

> spores

> > were identified)again on a personal level. My Question is, Is it

> viable

> > info for MDs to know in regards to specific treatments for

illness

> and

> > also is it helpful for an Attorney to know?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

and let's not forget that we are a small minority of the population

who have allergic reactions to " mold " - so they say....

why should doctors bother to learn how to help us or what tests to

run...our insurance companies aren't willing to pay for the tests...

[Guest guest]

Doug, How can I email your post to him?

Thank you!

Cheryl

[Guest guest]

Yes, this is EXACTLY how it has been. But this story is still unfolding and I

believe we are making progress...

I share the collective frustration of this having watched a guy die because

the ONLY thing his doctors said was wrong from the mold was his developing

asthma. He also developed fungal skin sores, a seizure disorder, Morgellon's

disease, and a vast array of GI and neuro problems. When his mother found him

dead in his bed just two days after he'd seen his primary care doc - the doctor

is a lovely woman with osteopathic training, really cares about that family,

just has been totally unschooled in mycotoxin issues, unfortunately, had no clue

he was about to drop dead suddenly. His mother and I KNEW in our hearts and

guts that mold killed him. The Coroner's office said he died of coronary issues

and that he had 'no evidence of mold.' (Um, they did ZERO testing for mold

issues - either fungal or toxic.) Took us several months to put the clues

together, and we did guess correctly what took him. Then it took us hundreds

and hundreds (literally) of emails to find a lab that

could test for it (I hadn't found KC's group yet!). So, please believe me when

I say I share the feeling - I have my own health issues and between mine and

his, I could scream for days about this.

That said, we ARE seeing progress - there's an actual task force in New York

state looking at this (even if California is still avoiding the law on their

books about looking at health issues of mold), and thanks to our Mistress

Advocator and her Networking Nimbleness, we're gonna have an actual U.S. Senate

hearing this year about the chenanigans that have kept us silent and doctors

ignorant.

2008 is a NEW year as of yet, and I believe it's one in which we will see a

LOT of progress.

OOOOOOH - and I forgot... there IS another force out there that will likely

come into play more and more. We all know that the insurance industry has kept

a mighty tight lid on doctors knowing about the full spectrum of health effects,

but an even more monied industry has figured out how to make proffits off of

mold victims, and when THEY start telling doctors to look for problems, they're

gonna get SEEN. Am not sure what kind of drugs they are exactly, but BIG PHARMA

has some new drugs they want to sell, and the power of their machine is likely

to trump the strength of the insurance folks - at least that's where I'd put my

money. (Please don't mistake this for my thinking this is a panacea - it ain't,

but it's gonna help a few of us and it's gonna get our issues identified

better.)

I really believe that this year will be a banner year for us in this fight.

And if it's not '08, then it will be '09. It's coming SOOOON. Keep the faith

and do what you need to get and stay healthy.

~Haley

P.S. Am entirely kidding when I say this: after several years of struggling

with toxic effects, I think I have finally developed allergies to mold

issues...lol.

llaci2003 <jjaksic@...> wrote:

and let's not forget that we are a small minority of the population

who have allergic reactions to " mold " - so they say....

why should doctors bother to learn how to help us or what tests to

run...our insurance companies aren't willing to pay for the tests...

[Guest guest]

Cheryl: I would suggest that if it cannot be simply " forwarded " using his email

address, that you print a copy and mail it to him. Hope that assists you.

This is the best I can offer off hand.

God Bless and take care.

Doug Haney

@...: sunbum256@...: Sun, 13 Jan 2008

04:49:04 +0000Subject: [] Re: A Question for the Professional Side

Doug, How can I email your post to him?Thank you!Cheryl

_________________________________________________________________

Make distant family not so distant with Windows Vista® + Windows Live™.

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[Guest guest]

you can also hit reply on the post than highlight and cut, than paste

to a wird pad or go to your w-mail and compose than paste it in a e-

mail.

>

> Cheryl: I would suggest that if it cannot be simply " forwarded "

using his email address, that you print a copy and mail it to him.

Hope that assists you.

>

> This is the best I can offer off hand.

>

> God Bless and take care.

>

> Doug Haney

>

>

> @...: sunbum256@...: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 04:49:04

+0000Subject: [] Re: A Question for the Professional Side

>

>

>

>

> Doug, How can I email your post to him?Thank you!Cheryl

>

>

>

>

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Make distant family not so distant with Windows Vista® + Windows

Live™.

> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/digitallife/keepintouch.mspx?

ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_VideoChat_distantfamily_012008

>

>