Guest guest Posted December 17, 1999 Report Share Posted December 17, 1999 Jeff - actually there are many doctors out there who do support lower carb/higher protein. They are seeing the results and realizing that there is more than " one way to skin a cat " as the saying goes. Look at the facts - look at the results - and with a little thought you might realize that your " mayo " analogy was pretty stupid. Rebekah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 1999 Report Share Posted December 17, 1999 Jeff, I think it is a big error for an insulin user to advise a diet controlled individual. I've been on both sides, and read a lot of mail. the truth is you simply don't have the experience that a diet controlled person has, watching what various foods do to their sugars. The food pyramid simply doesn't work for diet controlled. Most have success limiting starches, which seem to be the principal sources of high and prolonged sugars. I trim the top and base from the pyramid, The fats and oils cause weight gain, the starches sugar. Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 1999 Report Share Posted December 17, 1999 I also was one of the non-believers when it came to the low carb woe as you are Jeff. However, after 4 years of meds and the ADA diet it was not working and the dr's answer was to always change the meds, he never considered altering the diet. They do not have all the answers nor do the CDE's where nutrition is concerned. I was referred to a dietition in the beginning (and I have seen her one other time)...she gave me a high carb, high fat diet and couldn't answer my questions about vegetarian choices I wanted to make in the beginning. I gave up on the vegetarian part but did continue with the ADA diet.I started changing the woe in November and my bg's have come down considerably...they are still not quite where I want them but I am working on it. This is the first time in my life I am not going crazy thinking about what I'm going to eat at my next snack or meal and don't miss the carbos and the high they produced. If I ever want to sleep my life away again, I will carbo load on the heavy starches. They are a very satisfactory " sleeping pill " .It is always hard to split with conventional wisdom but in this case it works and I will continue to use low carb as a " medical " aid in the fight to keep my bg's under control along with my glucophage (BTW, this last time when my bg's were out of control the dr added glucotrol to the list but with the change in eating it has not been necessary).Kandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 1999 Report Share Posted December 17, 1999 a few things in response to a low carb diet. i had been on an ada diet for a long time without success. many highs and many lows, and am now trying some low carbs by myself. my bs are more staple when i eat low carbs. i have followed the anderson diet, and whitakers high carb diet. dr. whitaker is now saying lower carbs. they worked somewhat. i had a dietitian do a low carb, and glyemic diet for me. she had my eating 120 carbs a day, and this was a veggie diet. i just wasted $250.00 going to her. my point is the many dietitian do not know how to do something like this. for the person that said primitive man didn't have bread, well the bible tells me there was manna, and also they ate a lot of raw food. doctors do not have a lot of knowledge about nutrition so we need to be good consumers. that all. ellen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 1999 Report Share Posted December 17, 1999 Jeff, How many hours of nutritional study do you think the doctors and CDE's that ARE advising low carb have? Why do you think the ones who don't are better than the ones who do? First of all I can tell you that the doctors from both groups got MAYBE 4 hours of nutrional instruction, yet they are the ones who have the final prescribing say , don't they? Happily, the patient has the absolute final say. All you have to do to see what high carbs do to your bg's is test. You have a meter, use it. (or your wife does) BTW , we aren't advocating NO carb here. We eat plenty of veggies and get the number of carbs our bodies need. We certainly don't need the hundreds and hundreds of grams that most people get in the normal American diet. Do you think this is the natural way for people to eat? Primitive people didn't have bread, cereals, or pasta or refined sugars. Look at the American population of today. Ever since the food pyramid way of thinking about food was introduced, we have all only gotted fatter and fatter. What's wrong with this picture? Low carb doesn't mean you have to eat high fats. You don't even have to eat high protein if you don't want to. Have you read Dr Bernstein's book? Just 25 or so years ago people didn't have meters at home... why? Oh it was available but the DOCTORS said humans weren't capable of controlling their blood sugars. As recently as 50 years ago, diabetes Type I was considered a death sentence. The people who did live had terrible complications. Guess what kind of diet they ate? ADA exchange. Their blood sugars were up and down all over the place. It's wonderful to have doctors to help you with your health, but the bottom line is that its up to YOU to find what works for you. If everything the doctors said was accepted as gospel, we would still be drilling holes in our heads to let the bad spirits out. The Medical community HAS to have challenges in order to advance. I work in a hospital with many doctors and believe me, we talk about these things all the time. At my hospital, many of the doctors are following low carb themselves. Why? Because it works. And THAT is the bottom line. Meenie >I'm sorry, I just can't let this one go. Maybe the real answer is that the >docs/CDE's really do know more than you do. How many hours of nutritional >study do you think that your Dietitian CDE gets? Just where are you getting >your calories if you cut out carbs? Fat and Protein? And somehow you think >that this is smart? I hear by propose a new diet of nothing but mayo. Nope, >not on bread because that will be carbs but by the spoon. So dip you spoons >in that mayo jar and have at it. Clinic trials of the entire white creamy >food group will follow with horseradish and white gravy to be next in the >test. >Lets face it, you really don't know what you are talking about. Keep this >up and you will be asking for a modem hookup at your hospital stay in order >to send your ignorance. > >> >> >> >Sorry for this long reply, I am just amazed that the medical community >> still >> >does not at least present low carb as a viable option, for folks whose >> >numbers stay high, it makes me wonder why. What is in it for them to keep >> >people sick? >> >Isn't that a good question???? >> >Thanks for this opportunity to share my little story, >> >Jill >> >> Its a marvelous question, Jill and one I've been asking for a long time. >> Many docs aren't really interested until you turn up with some >complication >> for them to try and treat like neuropathy or kidney problems, or >> retinopathy. Who needs that? >> Or maybe its their training. Doctors get about 4 hours of nutritional >> training in their medical schooling... and all of that is about how >healthy >> the lovely food pyramid is. >> But there are more docs doing low carb now so the times they are >a-changin' >> >> Meenie > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 1999 Report Share Posted December 17, 1999 Ellen As a registered dietitian myself, I apologize for the lack of help you got from your dietitian. We are a conservative lot, I must tell you. Since being back at work, I have asked my fellow dietitians about low carbing. Even the CDE RD had no idea what I was talking about but all were interested in what you guys have been posting. We do want our patients to succeed in staying healthy. Some of us think the ADA (American DIETETIC Association) are a bunch of old fuddy duddies (can anyone guess where I stand on this?) and the more info you provide, the better for us.... and for the future patients we work with. Thank you... Gail From: ETyree5738@... a few things in response to a low carb diet. i had been on an ada diet for a long time without success. many highs and many lows, and am now trying some low carbs by myself. my bs are more staple when i eat low carbs. i have followed the anderson diet, and whitakers high carb diet. dr. whitaker is now saying lower carbs. they worked somewhat. i had a dietitian do a low carb, and glyemic diet for me. she had my eating 120 carbs a day, and this was a veggie diet. i just wasted $250.00 going to her. my point is the many dietitian do not know how to do something like this. for the person that said primitive man didn't have bread, well the bible tells me there was manna, and also they ate a lot of raw food. doctors do not have a lot of knowledge about nutrition so we need to be good consumers. that all. ellen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 1999 Report Share Posted December 17, 1999 Gail...some CDEs are up on it! When I went in last (with a chip on my shoulder, daring them to knock it off and a copy of Bernstein's Diabetes in my hand) they said he was a little extreme and suggested SugarBusters!. I bought a copy and tried it, but still too much carb for me. told me to *work out my own salvation* so to speak. And I have. Bernstein is more realistic for *me* but with insulin resistance, I still have not been able to take off the weight. Am gradually adding exercise back because I am still under the care of the Retinologist. Maybe the macular edema and bleeding will soon be completely under control and I can really get with it! *hugs* Toni Re: new mayo diet > Ellen > > As a registered dietitian myself, I apologize for the lack of help you > got from your dietitian. We are a conservative lot, I must tell you. > > Since being back at work, I have asked my fellow dietitians about low > carbing. Even the CDE RD had no idea what I was talking about but all > were interested in what you guys have been posting. We do want our > patients to succeed in staying healthy. Some of us think the ADA > (American DIETETIC Association) are a bunch of old fuddy duddies (can > anyone guess where I stand on this?) and the more info you provide, the > better for us.... and for the future patients we work with. > > Thank you... > Gail > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 1999 Report Share Posted December 17, 1999 Jeff, Since it is my MD who recommended a lower carb diet I can't say that your point of view is valid. As to how much nutrition is taken by by the MD/Dietician CDE. It is very little for either unless the dietician is a licensed dietician. Btw one of my good friends has for years recommended that I follow a lower carb diet but I was resistant as my doc at the time did not recommend it. SHE IS A LICENSED DIETICIAN. In fact she heads a large group of dieticians in our county. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 1999 Report Share Posted December 17, 1999 I'm new to diabetes and to learn more I've joined many (any I could find) list like this. What I've gleened from this is diabetes is a different diease for each person. You need to learn your body and what you can eat.I'm looking at the low carb diet but I can't handle the high fat of some on the plans. So I plan to eat and test and eat and test until I can figure out what is right for me. Your doctor and your dietitian can tell you what they believe the norm is but your body will tell you what is norm for you Well that's my 2cents worth. Lil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 1999 Report Share Posted December 18, 1999 Ah, a breath of fresh air. Way to go! Jeff recently wrote: > >I'm sorry, I just can't let this one go. Maybe the real answer is that the >docs/CDE's really do know more than you do... Impossible!? I love it, Kossart Peru, IL USA NMRA, LDSIG, OPSIG, BRHS, TP & W-HS LaSalle & Bureau County Model R.R. Club Chicago, Burlington & Quincy Model RR, Illinwek River Branch (H.O.-1969) " Serving Agriculture & Industry In The Illiniwek River Valley " -------------------------------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 1999 Report Share Posted December 18, 1999 Sam recently wrote us: >, about the knowledge of experts. I was in an electrical >engineering >class, the department head was teaching us a truth. I said >that is no >longer true prof, andd I gave an example the class recognized >and began >agreeing with me. The prof acknowledged to us that he was >teaching from >notes he took at MIT as a student. >We say a standard course is one where information passes from >the notes >of the prof to the notes of the student without passing >through the >brain of either. >Some of these truths take on a life of their own, like don't >eat sugar, >you'll be OK. I used the source of information that wasn't >lying, my >meter. I try to empower people to use their meter to >determine the >amount and type of foods they want by testing an hour after >eating. >I started at 150% of normal as a peak, and kept lowering it. >Beware the expert with ONLY book knowledge. Sam Sam, So basically, the medical community knows nothing, and we know everthing? We are not dealing with one _expert_ opinion here so even though you've made a point, I don't consider it valid to what I am saying. I am sure that if your lo-carb really works then you had better clue in the ADA 'cause apparently in yours and some of the other list members minds, they don't have a clue. Well I am sure they have looked at this and for whatever reason have not changed their way of thinking to the point of modifying their diet and recommendations. This all strikes me as somewhat analagous to the mindset of militia types who subscribe to a belief that the ENTIRE government is corrupt, etc., etc. - we can take over and do it better - hence my sarcistic query in a previous post as to the possibility of symbolic " black helicopters " appearing on this list. Before you, as others have done on this list, retreat to your fallback statement of: " I am only saying that lo-carb works for me " , let me say that I agree with that statement 100 per cent. If a magic wand waved over my head lowered my BG's consistantly I would mention it here, but not ad nauseum to where some would think that there really is no other way. However, I want to re-stress to others on this list, especially " newbies " , that lo-carbing is only ONE way of dealing with our problem; find what works for YOU - Probably adding doing so under a doctor's care would be prudent - but when you share it with the list, don't beat us over the head with it. Mention it and move on, if somone is interested they can then make inquiries for more specifics. This should apply to ANY list members control preference. Don't SAY your're already doing it, 'cause I don't see it happening, Please, give the rest of us a break and REALLY DO IT. If not, then the tediousness of this constant rehasing is driving me to seriously consider unsubscribing from this list. (Let's see if anyone will try and talk me out of it!) (just striving for some balance on the list) Kossart Peru, IL USA NMRA, LDSIG, OPSIG, BRHS, TP & W-HS LaSalle & Bureau County Model R.R. Club Chicago, Burlington & Quincy Model RR, Illinwek River Branch (H.O.-1969) " Serving Agriculture & Industry In The Illiniwek River Valley " -------------------------------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 1999 Report Share Posted December 19, 1999 No, it is not a good diet for diabetics. Folks with higher sugars are already risking damage to the kidneys, why add too it? Pretty simple logic if you ask me. So in return I would say that you should look at the facts and studies that have already been done on diabetic diets, the results are in my favor. These are FACTS, not word of mouth medical advice or someone looking for yet another silver bullet. Backed with years of continued research all with the same results. Don't get me wrong. My wife's department does teach carb counting and IMO, that is the best way to measure insulin needs but to replace carbs with fat and protein is going the wrong way. Side note: I love the way you spell your name, you don't see that very often. That is how we spell our daughters name. > > Jeff - actually there are many doctors out there who do support lower > carb/higher protein. They are seeing the results and realizing that there is > more than " one way to skin a cat " as the saying goes. Look at the facts - > look at the results - and with a little thought you might realize that your > " mayo " analogy was pretty stupid. > Rebekah > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 1999 Report Share Posted December 19, 1999 Jeff - Actually I am following my doctors advice - he is wonderful doctor, many believe him to be the best in our town, and he has practiced for many many years and worked with many many diabetics. I was practically house bound from Hepatitis C and other medical problems which had escalated for years and I finally went to him and learned I was diabetic too and followed his advice, although he did tell me about the ADA and how some people that works for and others need a different route - in the last year I have started working again - been on numerous vacations - driven my self to vacation places hours away - something that I had not been able to do for years - just finished (well I keep saying " finished " but...) Christmas shopping like crazy - up and down the malls - something I have not done in years and years and generally had a basic miracle of a last year so...bad for me? I don't think so - what I was doing before was bad and when I tried the ADA it didn't get the BG down to a reasonable rate and I did not want to take more medicine since my liver is already wacko - people who know me can hardly believe it when they hear and see all that I am now doing... at 38 I have been...reborn. Rebekah P.S. In a message dated 12/18/99 5:12:50 PM Pacific Standard Time, webmaster@... writes: << Side note: I love the way you spell your name, you don't see that very often. That is how we spell our daughters name. >> My mom picked this spelling out of the Bible - and you are right - you hardly do ever see it any more. But I have seen a couple of little girls lately with that spelling, how old is your daughter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 1999 Report Share Posted December 19, 1999 > > > Jeff, > Since it is my MD who recommended a lower carb diet I can't say that your > point of view is valid. As to how much nutrition is taken by by the > MD/Dietician CDE. It is very little for either unless the dietician is a > licensed dietician. A Dietician CDE requires a lot of study in order to achieve that status. Is your MD an endo or a GP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 1999 Report Share Posted December 19, 1999 Sam, I am not advising anyone on a diet; insulin user or not but stating that this no carb diet can be very dangerous. Ok, so you have read email but it doesn't appear that you have the educational background or certifications to make statements like, > The food pyramid simply doesn't work for diet controlled. while my information is coming from a team of CDE's with years of experience in dealing with situations like this on a daily basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 1999 Report Share Posted December 19, 1999 Jeff...If I may jump in here with about 2 cents worth? My endo is a respected researchist and is called a diabetologist. She has a CDE on duty at all times in her office. Both of them told me, when I went in armed with Bernstein and ready for a fight, that there is a trend away from the Pyramid as we now know it among doctors who are bothering to do research. They did say, however that Bernstein is too strict, and recommended SugarBusters! ....However, there were too many carbs for me. They advised me to use my meter, slide my insulin intake according to food intake, and make adjustments in both according to what kept me in the best control. My A1C is 6.2...down from 13.9 while under the care of Dr. Quack and using max dosage of triple oral meds. (I know you don't know this, but so many do that I feel I am boring everyone!) I think your misunderstanding is that the WOE is NOT NO carb, but low carb. There is a difference. No carb causes Ketosis (not to be confused with Keto-acidosis). I am insulin resistant and I can't handle those carbs because they cause my insulin needs to rise, thus, more weight gain. With little or no bread, potatoes, rice, or pasta and only limes, lemons, and berries for fruit, I do great. I experimented with adding more carbs lately and even having an occasional slice of rye bread. My bgs soared into the 200s! I'm backing off again. Honestly, Jeff, anyone who knows me (and Sam, for that matter) will tell you that both of fought for the ADA Pyramid for the longest time. We were hard to convince. Try it! It can't hurt unless, like you commented...you already have kidney disease. Susie convinced me and Tarcisio (in Brazil) made a believer out of Sam. Also, seeing is believing! Sorry! Much more than 2 cents! I tend to get wordy! *hugs* Toni Re: new mayo diet > > > Sam, I am not advising anyone on a diet; insulin user or not but stating > that this no carb diet can be very dangerous. > Ok, so you have read email but it doesn't appear that you have the > educational background or certifications to make statements like, > > > The food pyramid simply doesn't work for diet controlled. > > while my information is coming from a team of CDE's with years of experience > in dealing with situations like this on a daily basis. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 1999 Report Share Posted December 20, 1999 Ok, let me jump in here with an observation and a question. First, my diabetes is complicated by my long term prednisone use. I was taught the ADA substitution, and it has worked reasonably well for me. By eating less, more often, I was able to stop the binging that I was doing before. By forcing myself to eliminate something else if I were to have a cookie, I took an active part in controlling my diet, without feeling deprived. Other attempts at dieting failed miserably because they were too rigid, and made me feel deprived. I could not adopt them as a lifestyle change. Despite taking insulin and prednisone, I've been able to loose 20 pounds in about 4 months. My docs are thrilled, because most are not able to lose weight while on prednisone. Oh...and my bg's are consistently between 80 and 110 before meals and snacks (every 3 hrs). I've not looked at either Bernstein or SugarBusters because they sound too restrictive. I love fruits, but cringe at many veggies, though I do like salads. When I eat red meat, I feel really sluggish. Does it make sense for me to try to incorporate some of the low carb thinking into my diet? What would I gain? Would I be more likely to fall off the diet?? Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 1999 Report Share Posted December 20, 1999 Don, sounds wonderful, any cortisone drives sugars up, I think you have done well, and I sometimes substitute a chocolate square for some carb. Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 1999 Report Share Posted December 20, 1999 Hi Don, It sounds like you're doing wonderfully particularly since you're on the prednisone!! The only other thing I would do if I were you, would be to check my bg occassionally 1 1/2 - 2 hours after eating to see what kind of spikes I was getting from what I was eating. Since you are within " normal " bg range within 3 hours, I'd say - don't change a thing!! Meenie <snip> > my bg's are consistently between >80 and 110 before meals and snacks (every 3 hrs). <snip> >Does it make sense for >me to try to incorporate some of the low carb thinking into my diet? What >would I gain? Would I be more likely to fall off the diet?? > >Don > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 1999 Report Share Posted December 20, 1999 >No, it is not a good diet for diabetics. Folks with higher sugars are >already risking damage to the kidneys, why add too it? Pretty simple logic >if you ask me. Really? It seems more like simple logic to me that since it LOWERS the bg's you reduce that risk. >So in return I would say that you should look at the facts I find it interesting that you don't see the lowered blood glucose and the resultant lessening of distress on kidneys (and heart, and eyes, and circulatory system) as a fact and something to be considered. >and studies that have already been done on diabetic diets, the results are >in my favor. Where are the studies on low carb diets? The medical community has disregarded it to the extent that studies are only just beginning. The RD's talk about low carb and almost everything they tell you is wrong, so how much validity can we attribute to anything they say? They say on a low carb diet you only lose water weight. How in the heck can you say someone who has lost over 100 lbs has lost only water? That is outrageous and ridiculous. They say on a low carb diet your cholesterol will rise significantly because of the high fat content of the meat, but the fact is that people on low carb see their cholesterol lower dramatically - don't believe it? Go over to the Atkins_Support_List@onelist and ask them. Several of them have been on low carb over 2 years, and have lose significant amounts of weight and have their md's lab tests to prove the dramatic changes in their cholesterol/trigliceride counts. They say that 80% of people on a low carb diet regain the weight. guess what - they don't mention that 80% of people on low fat diets regain the weight. Anyone who uses a diet and then expects to return to their old way of eating is going to regain the weight. That isn't the fault of the diet. They put you on an ADA exchange diet and then if your bg's go up, they put you on a pill. When they continue to go up, they add another pill. Then another, Then insulin. Then they treat you for the complications that arise. Don't tell me this doesn't happen , I work in a hospital and I see it day in and day out . I also see the RD's look at a patient's chart and say " the bg is 168? Well, thats ok, since they're diabetic " . That is NOT ok. These are FACTS, not word of mouth medical advice or someone >looking for yet another silver bullet. If I were looking for a silver bullet, I would have accepted what the " experts " told me and gone along with their higher bg's/ more medicine routine - but I saw their other patients coming into the hospital da;y after day and decided I wanted something better. I happen to know there is NO silver bullet - no pill will counteract the effects if I don't have the sense to see what is happening to myself and take action. Backed with years of continued >research all with the same results. Then why are the people who are listening to them continually in the hospital with ever worsening complications? Meenie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 1999 Report Share Posted December 20, 1999 Can I make a suggestion? Can we agree to disagree on low carb versus ADA? As has been pointed out here before, do what works for you and what can keep your bg's within a specific range. Meenie you are right; I have only seen one person whose lipids increased after following a low carb (but high protein) diet. Most have seen a rather dramatic decrease in lipids (especially triglycerides) with the weight loss. And whatever diet works to lower blood glucoses will slow down the progression of nephropathy, neuropathy, retinopathy, heart disease, etc. facing so many diabetics. Since this is a LIFELONG struggle (which I don't have to tell you guys about since you face it everyday), a diet you can live with and which meets your individual needs, lifestyle, goals, etc. is one that will not only help you get the weight off but keep it off as the years go by. Gail (the RD) >No, it is not a good diet for diabetics. Folks with higher sugars are >already risking damage to the kidneys, why add too it? Pretty simple logic >if you ask me. Really? It seems more like simple logic to me that since it LOWERS the bg's you reduce that risk. >So in return I would say that you should look at the facts I find it interesting that you don't see the lowered blood glucose and the resultant lessening of distress on kidneys (and heart, and eyes, and circulatory system) as a fact and something to be considered. >and studies that have already been done on diabetic diets, the results are >in my favor. Where are the studies on low carb diets? The medical community has disregarded it to the extent that studies are only just beginning. The RD's talk about low carb and almost everything they tell you is wrong, so how much validity can we attribute to anything they say? They say on a low carb diet you only lose water weight. How in the heck can you say someone who has lost over 100 lbs has lost only water? That is outrageous and ridiculous. They say on a low carb diet your cholesterol will rise significantly because of the high fat content of the meat, but the fact is that people on low carb see their cholesterol lower dramatically - don't believe it? Go over to the Atkins_Support_List@onelist and ask them. Several of them have been on low carb over 2 years, and have lose significant amounts of weight and have their md's lab tests to prove the dramatic changes in their cholesterol/trigliceride counts. They say that 80% of people on a low carb diet regain the weight. guess what - they don't mention that 80% of people on low fat diets regain the weight. Anyone who uses a diet and then expects to return to their old way of eating is going to regain the weight. That isn't the fault of the diet. They put you on an ADA exchange diet and then if your bg's go up, they put you on a pill. When they continue to go up, they add another pill. Then another, Then insulin. Then they treat you for the complications that arise. Don't tell me this doesn't happen , I work in a hospital and I see it day in and day out . I also see the RD's look at a patient's chart and say " the bg is 168? Well, thats ok, since they're diabetic " . That is NOT ok. These are FACTS, not word of mouth medical advice or someone >looking for yet another silver bullet. If I were looking for a silver bullet, I would have accepted what the " experts " told me and gone along with their higher bg's/ more medicine routine - but I saw their other patients coming into the hospital da;y after day and decided I wanted something better. I happen to know there is NO silver bullet - no pill will counteract the effects if I don't have the sense to see what is happening to myself and take action. Backed with years of continued >research all with the same results. Then why are the people who are listening to them continually in the hospital with ever worsening complications? Meenie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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