As I suspected

[Guest guest]

Well guys, I got my report, complete w/pictures. Ofcourse, my husband

wants to debate it with me & it's like a 60 pg. report!. I sent him

the posts that were directed to him...that went over like a lead

balloon. For the safety of myself & my children, I'm afaraid I'm going

to have to ask him to leave. I HAVE to get this place remediated & I

no longer wish to debate whether or not what we have is detrimental to

our health or not; I've been sick since living here & feel better when

out of the house, to me, it's a no-brainer, but then again, I think he

lost his brain along the way...sorry..I'm a bit emotional over all this

since I've been trying to prove it for 2 yrs. Now it's in pictures &

black & white & he's still arguing with me...it's not worth my health

any longer; I've suffered enough. Thank you all for your support,

encouragement & information that you've shared.

Hugs & Health to all!

Cheryl

[Guest guest]

Cheryl, glad you got the results but sorry your husband still doubts the danger.

Most of us on Sickbuildings have dealt with that same doubt from our own family

members and doctors. You are doing the right thing by putting your health and

your children's health first. We will be thinking about you as you move forward

with your plans. Stay strong!

[] As I suspected

Well guys, I got my report, complete w/pictures. Ofcourse, my husband

wants to debate it with me & it's like a 60 pg. report!. I sent him

the posts that were directed to him...that went over like a lead

balloon. For the safety of myself & my children, I'm afaraid I'm going

to have to ask him to leave. I HAVE to get this place remediated & I

no longer wish to debate whether or not what we have is detrimental to

our health or not; I've been sick since living here & feel better when

out of the house, to me, it's a no-brainer, but then again, I think he

lost his brain along the way...sorry. .I'm a bit emotional over all this

since I've been trying to prove it for 2 yrs. Now it's in pictures &

black & white & he's still arguing with me...it's not worth my health

any longer; I've suffered enough. Thank you all for your support,

encouragement & information that you've shared.

Hugs & Health to all!

Cheryl

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

http://www./r/hs

[Guest guest]

cHERYL,

If you seriously are going to have the house remediated, please don't

hurry back in there to live. Seriously. I did that after three days

and I'm paying for it. Especially for the kids. Six months would be

best.

[Guest guest]

BE CAREFUL, Bad, botched remediations FREQUENTLY make things far worse

than they were before they were attempted.

Carl once told me that a very large percentage of his work comes from

clients who have already had 'remediations' done on their houses and

these were done badly.

Mold needs to be removed but it needs to be done with care, using

containment which is basically extreme care to avoid contaminating

everything.

Do more extensive testing before the remediation, and then after in

order to get a comparison. I would use several testing methods, the

same ones for both pre and post. Try to use a method that averages out

the mold.

On Jan 16, 2008 12:41 PM, llaci2003 <jjaksic@...> wrote:

>

[Guest guest]

--- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...>

wrote:

>

> BE CAREFUL, Bad, botched remediations FREQUENTLY make things far worse

> than they were before they were attempted.

Thank you so much for this info...I will research & make the most

informed decision I can on getting this house remediated!

Thnx for sharing this!

Hugs, Cheryl

[Guest guest]

Carl,

Could you elaborate on this subject ... so it may be presented to

those that are skeptical (spouses). Thanks!

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Another option would be to move and simply disclose what you know about your

current house.

Either rent a relatively new home with no mold or buy one. Not an easy

option but the remediation thing scares me. Especially if your house is old.

could be a can of worms.

My results in this new home are mixed. Much better than in nc where I lived

in a home made truck camper by a very moldy old house. The symptoms here

seem to be quite different. A lot of burning and cognitive difficulty. It's

much better now that we can open the windows. Heat doesn't seem to be much

worse than with the windows open. The ac I could not tolerate. Drove me out

on the porch.

I'm breaking up my time in the house now by sleeping in the car. (took the

passenger seat out) which seems to help a lot!

Sure do miss the good ole days when I lived underneath a carport behind my

home.

On Jan 18, 2008 9:57 AM, Cheryl <sunbum256@...> wrote:

>

> >

> > BE CAREFUL, Bad, botched remediations FREQUENTLY make things far worse

> > than they were before they were attempted.

>

> Thank you so much for this info...I will research & make the most

> informed decision I can on getting this house remediated!

> Thnx for sharing this!

> Hugs, Cheryl

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

Its not so simple. Bluntly, renting is a nightmare for moldies unless

you are rich enough to deal with the consequences of making the wrong

decision which may mean having to move and then pay rent on two places

and then try to get deposit back from LL.

Poor people are in a TERRIBLE situation because the predatory

landlords, the same ones that don't maintain their buildings, SEEK

THEM OUT because they KNOW that poor people will have trouble

asserting their (few) rights.

Its a jungle out there and its getting worse, not better because the

ECONOMIC SITUATION FOR POOR PEOPLE IS GETTING WORSE.

Really, this is a hell for many of us because what little morals and

restraints that existed on this kind of thing a few years ago seem to

be fewer and fewer in this land.

The free-marketeers believe in the " magic of the marketplace " to sort

everything out, which is basically the honor system. They are

depending on landlords and sellers to self-police, like you said, to

disclose situations.

Is that really realistic? Or smart?

[Guest guest]

Cheryl,

With something so important, its a difficult decision what to do. TRY

TO GET A REMEDIATOR WHO COMES HIGHLY RECOMMENDED.

This list is a support list. There are only a few people here who

really know a lot about remediation. We have two members who are real

life experts in this, Carl and Jeff. (I am definitely NOT even an

amateur pro)

I basically am also scared of a significant percentage of remediators

because its been my experience that a significant percentage of them

are fundamentally ill-suited to what they represent themselves as

being able to do. There's a fundamental problem, if you hadn't

noticed, with mold remediation in that by the time someone is sick and

they realize that they are sick from mold, that building is going to

need to be thoroughly cleaned of mold to be habitable to them, and

this level of remediation is something that takes a dedicated

professional, not a fly by night contractor who gets most of his

business from real estate agents or employers fearing lawsuits and who

doesn't understand mold illness because they have not had it

themselves. Carl and Jeff are unique in that they are primarily

home-healers and they DO deal with people like us all the time. They

have also BEEN us.

They might be able to read between a very few lines, but like the rest

of us, we don't know so many important things that would be needed

even under the best of conditions to REALLY give you guidance about

something so important.

Or what your financial situation is. (Some people just throw money at

a problem, which even then often doesn't work, if they just do what

people tell them to do to get their money..) Whenever you HIRE

anybody you are taking a risk. Sometimes, its better to take the time

to TRAIN YOURSELF and DO THINGS YOURSELF.

But, of course, in this case, that COULD also be dangerous. Some

people can handle it, others cant. Some think they can, but they cant,

some can but they think they cant.. (sigh)

How big is the problem? There are MAJOR mold problems - for example,

problems involving houses that stood in water - often super major,

often not cost effective. Replacement sometimes is the best option.

i.e. tearing down.. Other situations, its an afternoons work to

replace some moldy sheetrock, with a few days of aggressive cleaning

of belongings with fans in windows and plastic containment. Some

buildings are basically dry, maybe need some deferred maintainance,

but not major work, others are MISTAKES that were built wrong, in the

wrong place, from the beginning. There is everything in between.

Construction materials that were used make a huge difference. Some

materials can get wet and not get moldy, others... no.. Ventilation

has a lot to do with this.. a wet area, say a roof leaks or a pipe

bursts, can sometimes look bad, but be caught and dried out and not

have any mold damage. Ive seen the aftermath of floods and people who

live in flood plains get good at this. They use shop vacs, fans, space

heaters, dehumidifiers. There is actually a two or three day window

that is basically enough time to completely dry out almost any

situation. People just run a saw along the bottom of the walls (with

the power turned off of course) and strip off the worst of the

sheetrock, (the very bottom few inches, usually) dry the insides out

with propane-driven space heaters, in a vortex then patch up. If its

done right away, no mold at all.

(is this right, Carl, Jeff?)

But if the owners are out of town, and don't realize..

Really, there are a lot of variables.

You know, there are people here who know a LOT more than me. Why don't

you post a lot more detail, even pictures if you can (to a photo

sharing site) The more info people have the more they could help,

PERHAPS.

Of course, nobody could scope out the situation solely from pictures

and description or even one or two bulk spore tests, (except to say

that there was a mold problem from the more obvious of results)

For example, one or two or even more spore tests that show little or

no mold really don't mean much. They shouldn't be used to show that.

Why? How do we know where they were taken is part of it.

Bla bla bla..

[Guest guest]

I need some place to go when my house is being worked on. All my

family lives way, way out of town. I could stay with friends but feel

really need some place where I feel I can come and go freely on my own

schedule, so considering a camper that I can use when I can't be at

home. New Airstreams are too expensive for this temporary use but I

figure a new 'any brand' of camper might be better than a used top of

the line, since the air conditioner would not have been run before.

I figure if I don't use the air conditioner, new camper, even if a

cheaper brand would be okay...as far as mold and other microbes. I'm

not chemically sensivitive, at least not yet. I lived in a temporary

apt w hardwood floors but in very old building and wasn't really good

for me, so thinking new 'something' might be better for me.

Is there anything in a new camper that I should be wary of? Like, do

they contain particle board? I almost always see mold on particle

board if it has had any exposure to outdoors.

--- In , " robert christ " <antares4141@...>

wrote:

>

> Another option would be to move and simply disclose what you know

about your

> current house.

> Either rent a relatively new home with no mold or buy one. Not an easy

> option

[Guest guest]

A 'post script' to my own post. Thought I would report on my

temporary apt, which tested okay for mold BUT had a very bad odor,

that I didn't notice until it was empty and I was to move in. What

happened was when I looked at apt people who were living there were

***COOKING, so odor wasn't apparent (not deliberately of course), but

something to think about. There was odor in basement that I ignored

because I was so happy to find a place that didn't appear to be

moldy, but bldg in general smelled like a few dead rodents must be in

walls or something. I cleaned it up real well and never did test

badly for mold but place had an odor even after it was cleaned

thoroughly, so it can be difficult to spot a good place.

One apartment complex that I kept passing, looked so nice, and in

nice location, that I kept wishing there would be an apartment there,

but never had a rent sign out, so I went up and asked a resident if

there were any vacancies and he said they were just about to put a

sign up and got someone to show me empty apartment. Oh, peeee-uuuu,

that place smelled worse than any place I looked at. I tried to hold

my breath. Lady who showed it to me said she was very sick and she

lived across the hallway. I should have given her info on a book or

two about indoor air quality but I was in such a hurry to leave. I

regretted not thinking about that, but gated community and just got

in because someone was tinkering around on his car outside. It was

so bad, I even wondered if previous renter was still alive.

Anyway, it's really tough to find some place once you have become

sick with this stuff. Considering sleeping in my car in my own

garage which is outside house envelope but cramped to sleep in, and

would have to run back and forth into house for everything but

sleeping so was thinking a camper would be better. Anyone bought a

new camper and did okay? I figure I could always sell it and get

pretty much money back, maybe easier to sell a camper than a house

now a days.

I'm okay right now because house tests good and smells very fresh in

the midst of winter but time flies so I have to come up with some

options. Thanks for any ideas.

>

> I need some place to go when my house is being worked on. All my

> family lives way, way out of town. I could stay with friends but

feel

>

[Guest guest]

Barb,

Watch out for formaldeyde. Try to get a no-VOC trailer if such a thing exists.

Those trailers use TONS of plastic now and yes, they use particle board, more of

it than anbody would want. Here in the US its still legal. What I

would do is try to find a shared

room in a well-maintained household, and put most of yur stuff in

double-wrapped plastic bags in

locking, clean storage.

Check the contractor out well because it will be very important that

they try to not cut corners even if

things are discovered that push the schedule out. I'd also invest in a

motion-triggered DVR and at least four cameras so

you could see what was going on when you were not there. (and keep a

tab on hours ACTUALLY worked)

This is VERY common in construction now, its standard.

So I would go with single rented room in shared, well maintained

household with older single folks.

A trailer seems like it might be asking for trouble if you did not

have a good sized window of time ahead

of time to air it out. (time when the temperature was pretty warm

which helps 'liberate' the plasticizers, formaldehyde)

To be honest I don't think that stuff is a problem in houses so much

IF YOU HAVE CONTINUOUS VENTILATION.

But in a trailer, you can't leave a window cracked open, people would

break in. Plus,

Ohio has very cold winters, and hot summers.

Are there any " green " low VOC brands of RVs or trailers that are not

obscenely expensive?

On Jan 18, 2008 9:31 PM, barb1283 <barb1283@...> wrote:

>

> I need some place to go when my house is being worked on. All my

> family lives way, way out of town. I could stay with friends but feel

> really need some place where I feel I can come and go freely on my own

> schedule, so considering a camper that I can use when I can't be at

> home. New Airstreams are too expensive for this temporary use but I

> figure a new 'any brand' of camper might be better than a used top of

> the line, since the air conditioner would not have been run before.

> I figure if I don't use the air conditioner, new camper, even if a

> cheaper brand would be okay...as far as mold and other microbes. I'm

> not chemically sensivitive, at least not yet. I lived in a temporary

[Guest guest]

It is SO hard to find an apartment that isn't smelly. Often, when

tenants move, they repaint apartments which makes them smell like

paint and also conveniently masks any other smells.

As they say, " Caveat emptor "

(Latin for Let the buyer BEWARE)

[Guest guest]

What about renting a camper or RV?

Judy

[] Re: As I suspected

>

> I need some place to go when my house is being worked on. All my

> family lives way, way out of town. I could stay with friends but

feel

>

[Guest guest]

>

>Is that really realistic? Or smart?

I understand the dilemma with poor people Live, I also understand the

dilemma with ill people that can't work and how it locks them into the exact

vicious circle your post points out.

I sympathize for you and people in your predicament. It really isn't fair.

At some point I'm going to be holding your hand. Not a day goes by that I

don't think about this.

I am just putting out some options. Ones I wished I would of seriously

considered early on in my illness.

I am aware that if you don't have the funds this may not be viable.

But the same thing holds true about remediation.

There are many variables also that I can't go into such as the level of

sensitivity of the occupants and the degree of the problem with the

structure.

I wish their were a simple answer but their isn't. These options need to be

considered carefully and unfortunately the last person that should be

considering them is the person sick and reacting to this mold.

Rarely do we make the right ones.

That's why I push so hard for recognition and understanding of this disease,

than authority's couldn't turn their backs on us. It's funny how people

always seem to do the right thing when they know someone is looking over

their shoulder.

On Jan 18, 2008 7:27 PM, LiveSimply <quackadillian@...> wrote:

> Dear ,

>

> Its not so simple. Bluntly, renting is a nightmare for moldies unless

> you are rich enough to deal with the consequences of making the wrong

> decision which may mean having to move and then pay rent on two places

> and then try to get deposit back from LL.

>

> Poor people are in a TERRIBLE situation because the predatory

> landlords, the same ones that don't maintain their buildings, SEEK

> THEM OUT because they KNOW that poor people will have trouble

> asserting their (few) rights.

>

> Its a jungle out there and its getting worse, not better because the

> ECONOMIC SITUATION FOR POOR PEOPLE IS GETTING WORSE.

>

> Really, this is a hell for many of us because what little morals and

> restraints that existed on this kind of thing a few years ago seem to

> be fewer and fewer in this land.

>

> The free-marketeers believe in the " magic of the marketplace " to sort

> everything out, which is basically the honor system. They are

> depending on landlords and sellers to self-police, like you said, to

> disclose situations.

>

> Is that really realistic? Or smart?

>

>

[Guest guest]

If you have the time to wait, do what was mentioned and ask Carl and

Jeff for their expertise. Even if you have to move out and then make

the decision; still better to do it that way.

In my case, I was so severely incapacitated and asthmatic from the

inhalation of mold that I had to leave my home within 24 hours of the

occurrence. So we just went to the Yellow Pages and had them come out

and test and do the remediation.

[Guest guest]

People think nothing about " lying through their teeth " these days.

[Guest guest]

Barb,

Please don't buy a conventional travel trailer, or a camper!

http://geocities.com/antares4141/moldpics/trailers.html

You have read about my horror story. They use a material called " luan " and

often lots of glue. Really depends on the type of construction. Mine had the

mold in it before I ever took it off of the lot. And those that didn't (if

any) I am sure do soon after they are because the construction is so cheap.

I know this isn't an option for many but I wouldn't sleep in a car in a

garage it kind of defeats the purpose.

If you decide to do it usually their are only four bolts holding in the

passenger seat (bucket seats that is) If you have bucket's take out the

passenger side. If you have bench of course this isn't an option. I've done

this in my subaru legacy and it actually isn't too bad. I can stretch my

legs out all the way and I open the windows to get fresh air. I also took

the carpet out because even if you only had rain one time that's enough to

harbor mold in the padding. The resale value of it isn't too high anymore I

wouldn't suggest doing this to a late model car unless you are really

desperate.

Their is a new design in the trailer industry I think is going to take off.

They claim it's free of wood and formaldahyde which I find quite hard to

believe becuase it's made out of some type of plastic. It almost undoubtably

has to be gassing something. But the good thing is it's leak resistant and

uses no celulose materials in the construction so it should be mold free. I

am going to watch these closly they might be a viable option.

Check out the link:

http://www.roamingtimes.com/a/articles/pilgrim-first-all-composite-rv-2.asp

Stay away from conventional rv's though!

[Guest guest]

Thanks Judy. Interesting idea that I will check out. Since air

conditioner would have been run in a used camper, I would suspect mold

spores sprayed out from that into camper. However I don't have much

trouble tolerating my car that has a ten year old air conditioner, but

the difference might be that there is nothing much in a car to grow

mold, such as drywall or particle board. However, it's worth checking

out. Perhaps if camper is almost new, just not using the air/heater

unit in camper would work out.

--- In , " judith parker " <jparkeris@...>

wrote:

>

> What about renting a camper or RV?

>

> Judy

>

[Guest guest]

In , " barb1283 " <barb1283@> wrote:

I need some place to go when my house is being worked on. All my

family lives way, way out of town. I could stay with friends but

feel

Barb, It's very isolating being away from friends & family, esp. in

times of need. Wow, it's been so long now...I wouldn't know what to

do if my place didn't smell, have fibers & dust everywhere & have a

neg. test; It would be SOOOO nice to not have to clean all the

time!! I wonder if I will have to do move during remediation: I'll

be in same boat as you, although, my husband seems to think it's

something he can do on his own. BIG mistake: put new fridge, oven &

DW in holes that had walls w/black sposts all over them...I tried to

warn him, but it fell on deaf ears. In fact he hasn't even read the

inspection, let alone, look at the pictures; I don't understand it.

I wish you well finding a place to stay, while your place is being

cleaned!!

Hugs,

Cheryl

[Guest guest]

--- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...>

wrote:

>

> It is SO hard to find an apartment that isn't smelly. Often, when

> tenants move, they repaint apartments which makes them smell like

> paint and also conveniently masks any other smells.

Live, This is SO true; new carpet & paint can cover a multitude of

sins, temporarily!

Hugs, Cheryl

[Guest guest]

Cheryl,

" Wow, it's been so long now...I wouldn't know what to

do if my place didn't smell, have fibers & dust everywhere & have a

neg. test; It would be SOOOO nice to not have to clean all the

time!! "

You will be so energetic, you'll see. Good luck.

[Guest guest]

I was a do-it-yourselfer but after falling off a ladder, inhaling

leaded paint and mold, I hire people now even if they are just do labor

and I pay them by the hour.

I'm safe at home for the winter, but by springtime, I have to get

repairs started, so hopefully by then I will have the plan. It's just

around the corner.

>

>my husband seems to think it's

> something he can do on his own. BIG mistake: put new fridge, oven &

> DW in holes that had walls w/black sposts all over them...I tried to

> warn him, but it fell on deaf ears. In fact he hasn't even read the

> inspection, let alone, look at the pictures; I don't understand it.

> I wish you well finding a place to stay, while your place is being

> cleaned!!

> Hugs,

> Cheryl

>