Re: education accommodations

[Guest guest]

Hi Andromeda,

Hopefully someone like Meyer who has worked extensively in vocational

counseling for AS adults (and in fact published a book, you can find it here:

http://www.amazon.com/Asperger-Syndrome-Employment-Workbook-Adults/dp/1853027960

) or K. who has had recent experience with returning to school, can help.

Congratulations on your return to school , wishing you every success!

- Helen

>

>

> I am going to be starting in September at a local community college, and

> have an appointment this week with a counselor at the Disability

> Center. Since I have never had accommodations, I'm not sure what to ask

> for which would be helpful. (Last time I was in college was 27 years

> ago, and no one knew about AS, NLD or anything else.) My biggest

> problems are handwriting, computer skills, group work, organization and

> time management.

>

> What accommodations could I ask for? What might be helpful?

>

> Thanks for any ideas.

>

> Andromeda

>

[Guest guest]

Congrats on getting to college, and I hope you enjoy the experience. How about asking for a scribe? This will help with the computer work and the handwriting, and give you a person who can write down the basic information for you to distil and cogitate over. People I know with AS who have had a scribe have benefited from it. Also ask to have regular meetings with the tutors, and make sure that they know you have AS - tell them yourself, as sometimes the right info doesnt get through to the right people. The other thing to note is to find out where the lecture rooms are and what type of rooms you will be in, in case of sensory issues or need to be near the door, window, or have regular breaks. Check out the lighting and the

noise. Good luck with it all! Judy From Judy Barrow To: aspires-relationships Sent: Sunday, 29 July 2012, 22:22 Subject:

education accommodations I am going to be starting in September at a local community college, and have an appointment this week with a counselor at the Disability Center. Since I have never had accommodations, I'm not sure what to ask for which would be helpful. (Last time I was in college was 27 years ago, and no one knew about AS, NLD or anything else.) My biggest problems are handwriting, computer skills, group work, organization and time management.What accommodations could I ask for? What might be helpful?Thanks for any ideas.Andromeda------------------------------------ "We each have our own way of living in the world, together we are like a symphony.Some are the melody, some are the rhythm, some are the harmony It all blends together, we are like a symphony, and each part is

crucial.We all contribute to the song of life." ...Sondra We might not always agree; but TOGETHER we will make a difference. ASPIRES is a closed, confidential, moderated list.Responsibility for posts to ASPIRES lies entirely with the original author. Do NOT post mail off-list without the author's permission. When in doubt, please refer to our list rules at: http://www.aspires-relationships.com/info_rules.htm ASPIRES ~ Climbing the mountain TOGETHER http://www.aspires-relationships.com/

[Guest guest]

Hi Andromeda.......

I am starting at UTC in three weeks - and received accommodations successfully

back in May while talking with the director of the Disability Resource Center.

Also because the DRC has the MoSAIC program (a program designed specifically for

students with ASD), I convinced the DRC's director to let me be part of MoSAIC

(http://www.utc.edu/Administration/DisabilityResourceCenter/mosaic.php).

I never had the opportunity to ask for accommodations the last time when I was

an undergrad about fifteen years ago. So this was my chance.

** - my comments

>

>

> I am going to be starting in September at a local community college, and

> have an appointment this week with a counselor at the Disability

> Center. Since I have never had accommodations, I'm not sure what to ask

> for which would be helpful. (Last time I was in college was 27 years

> ago, and no one knew about AS, NLD or anything else.)

>My biggest problems are handwriting,

** Might want to check with getting accommodations for the usage of a digital

voice recorder. Even though the Disability Resource Center allowed me usage of

a drv, I bought one myself to avoid taking a chance that one would not become

available. Or see if you can get accommodations for someone to take notes for

you in class or have someone from the office to take notes for you.

>computer skills,

** Are you taking a beginning computer class at the community college? If so,

you can ask the office to find out if you can get help for that class.

Definitely ask for help from your instructor if you are taking a beginning

computer class involving computer skills. I would say something along the lines

of that you haven't been in college for over 25 years and need help from the

office.. then see what the office can do for you.

>group work,

** That's a tough one. A lot of (but not all) classes involve some sort of

group work element to it. I would address your concern with group work to the

office and see what say or recommend to you. If group work is a challenge

because of the overload of sensory stimulation coming from it, you may want to

address that to the office. Don't know if an instructor would allow you to do

an individual project in place of group work or a group project.

> organization

I am working with a good friend of mine, who has developed this wonderful

organization system for high school and college students with high functioning

autism/Aspergers and teaches her org system to others locally. I have been

doing what she has suggested in preparing for the upcoming semester, and I think

her organizational system will help me greatly. At the very least, her system

will reduce the amount of potential anxiety I could have been facing otherwise.

She is charging me $25 per hour, and it is well worth my paying my good friend

the money. Got through two sessions in one hour total the first time (because I

understand very well what she was saying), and she'll follow up with me at the

end of the first week of the semester. Gave me a list of the supplies I'll need

to buy for my classes. She developed her organizational system while she was an

undergraduate at a nearby private college through trial and error, then

perfected her system. I had her speak at my GCA Support Group meeting last year

about her system.

Emailed her to see if she will Skype with people who want to learn more about

her system and to work with them. I will report back on that.

You could ask for help with organization with the office, but no idea what they

will say or anything.

and

> time management.

** The office should be able to help you in that regard. They will give you a

sheet of paper with Monday-Sunday schedule and you will need to block out your

classes, work schedule (if you are working), and all that. For every hour of

class, you will need to study anywhere from two to three hours on average. Some

of my classes will take longer to do homework than some of my other classes.

It's really all about trying to figure out how long everything will take to get

done.

>

> What accommodations could I ask for? What might be helpful?

>

> Thanks for any ideas.

>

> Andromeda

>

What I got for all my classes at UTC

** Time and a half on tests (in case I ever need the extra time)

** Priority registration before everyone else, so I can be assured of getting

the classes I need before anyone else does (which relieves anxiety)

** Priority seating in front row for all my classes (decreases sensory overload,

besides my preference was to always sit in the front row anyway, regardless)

** Access to digital voice recorder or for someone who take notes(I bought a dvr

anyway)

What you might also want to ask

** Access to tutoring for computer help (or other classes)

Those are the ones that I can think right off the bat for now.

Hope this helps,

[Guest guest]

BTW, congrats on your acceptance to the community college. I wish you well,

> >

> >

> > I am going to be starting in September at a local community college, and

> > have an appointment this week with a counselor at the Disability

> > Center. Since I have never had accommodations, I'm not sure what to ask

> > for which would be helpful. (Last time I was in college was 27 years

> > ago, and no one knew about AS, NLD or anything else.)

>

> >My biggest problems are handwriting,

> ** Might want to check with getting accommodations for the usage of a digital

voice recorder. Even though the Disability Resource Center allowed me usage of

a drv, I bought one myself to avoid taking a chance that one would not become

available. Or see if you can get accommodations for someone to take notes for

you in class or have someone from the office to take notes for you.

>

> >computer skills,

> ** Are you taking a beginning computer class at the community college? If so,

you can ask the office to find out if you can get help for that class.

Definitely ask for help from your instructor if you are taking a beginning

computer class involving computer skills. I would say something along the lines

of that you haven't been in college for over 25 years and need help from the

office.. then see what the office can do for you.

>

> >group work,

> ** That's a tough one. A lot of (but not all) classes involve some sort of

group work element to it. I would address your concern with group work to the

office and see what say or recommend to you. If group work is a challenge

because of the overload of sensory stimulation coming from it, you may want to

address that to the office. Don't know if an instructor would allow you to do

an individual project in place of group work or a group project.

>

> > organization

> I am working with a good friend of mine, who has developed this wonderful

organization system for high school and college students with high functioning

autism/Aspergers and teaches her org system to others locally. I have been

doing what she has suggested in preparing for the upcoming semester, and I think

her organizational system will help me greatly. At the very least, her system

will reduce the amount of potential anxiety I could have been facing otherwise.

>

> She is charging me $25 per hour, and it is well worth my paying my good friend

the money. Got through two sessions in one hour total the first time (because I

understand very well what she was saying), and she'll follow up with me at the

end of the first week of the semester. Gave me a list of the supplies I'll need

to buy for my classes. She developed her organizational system while she was an

undergraduate at a nearby private college through trial and error, then

perfected her system. I had her speak at my GCA Support Group meeting last year

about her system.

>

> Emailed her to see if she will Skype with people who want to learn more about

her system and to work with them. I will report back on that.

>

> You could ask for help with organization with the office, but no idea what

they will say or anything.

>

> and

> > time management.

> ** The office should be able to help you in that regard. They will give you a

sheet of paper with Monday-Sunday schedule and you will need to block out your

classes, work schedule (if you are working), and all that. For every hour of

class, you will need to study anywhere from two to three hours on average. Some

of my classes will take longer to do homework than some of my other classes.

It's really all about trying to figure out how long everything will take to get

done.

>

> >

> > What accommodations could I ask for? What might be helpful?

> >

> > Thanks for any ideas.

> >

> > Andromeda

> >

> What I got for all my classes at UTC

> ** Time and a half on tests (in case I ever need the extra time)

> ** Priority registration before everyone else, so I can be assured of getting

the classes I need before anyone else does (which relieves anxiety)

> ** Priority seating in front row for all my classes (decreases sensory

overload, besides my preference was to always sit in the front row anyway,

regardless)

> ** Access to digital voice recorder or for someone who take notes(I bought a

dvr anyway)

>

> What you might also want to ask

> ** Access to tutoring for computer help (or other classes)

>

> Those are the ones that I can think right off the bat for now.

>

> Hope this helps,

>

>

[Guest guest]

I've been through a fair bit of this with my daughter.

Basically, you figure out where you have triggers or weak spots, and see what

can be done to address those.

Some examples:

- extra time on tests

This is useful if you think slowly, have poor handwriting, or tend to get

distracted. It's a common accommodation.

- use of a computer on exams

This is trickier, but if you really can't write by hand, it can be dealt with.

Typically, you'd use one of the department's computers and be tested separately,

with someone watching to make sure you don't cheat.

- use of noise canceling headphones

If you can't tune out background noises. They will also be concerned with

cheating.

- receive copies of teacher's lecture notes

This is also a common request, but it assumes your teacher has notes! Another

option is to have an assigned note taker, or to be allowed to tape lectures.

- organization

you'll probably have to work out some system that works for you, though the

disability office should have suggestions.

You will want some documentation of your weaknesses -- professional psych

testing is best.

Good luck, both with your studies and with getting the accommodations you need.

--Liz

>

> I am going to be starting in September at a local community college, and

> have an appointment this week with a counselor at the Disability

> Center. Since I have never had accommodations, I'm not sure what to ask

> for which would be helpful. (Last time I was in college was 27 years

> ago, and no one knew about AS, NLD or anything else.) My biggest

> problems are handwriting, computer skills, group work, organization and

> time management.

>

> What accommodations could I ask for? What might be helpful?

>

> Thanks for any ideas.

>

> Andromeda

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> " We each have our own way of living in the world, together we are

like a symphony.

> Some are the melody, some are the rhythm, some are the harmony

> It all blends together, we are like a symphony, and each part is crucial.

> We all contribute to the song of life. "

> ...Sondra

>

> We might not always agree; but TOGETHER we will make a difference.

>

> ASPIRES is a closed, confidential, moderated list.

> Responsibility for posts to ASPIRES lies entirely with the original author.

> Do NOT post mail off-list without the author's permission.

> When in doubt, please refer to our list rules at:

> http://www.aspires-relationships.com/info_rules.htm

> ASPIRES ~ Climbing the mountain TOGETHER

> http://www.aspires-relationships.com

>

[Guest guest]

Good luck in college!

I'm taking notes on all this as well. I'm seriously considering going back for a

different degree, and this thread made me realize I can get accommodations now.

Maybe this time around won't be so crazy-making.

Would any of you by chance know if U-Dub has a disability office with autism

experience?

Cheers,

>

> >

> > I am going to be starting in September at a local community college, and

> > have an appointment this week with a counselor at the Disability

> > Center. Since I have never had accommodations, I'm not sure what to ask

> > for which would be helpful. (Last time I was in college was 27 years

> > ago, and no one knew about AS, NLD or anything else.) My biggest

> > problems are handwriting, computer skills, group work, organization and

> > time management.

> >

> > What accommodations could I ask for? What might be helpful?

> >

> > Thanks for any ideas.

> >

> > Andromeda

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > " We each have our own way of living in the world, together we

are like a symphony.

> > Some are the melody, some are the rhythm, some are the harmony

> > It all blends together, we are like a symphony, and each part is crucial.

> > We all contribute to the song of life. "

> > ...Sondra

> >

> > We might not always agree; but TOGETHER we will make a difference.

> >

> > ASPIRES is a closed, confidential, moderated list.

> > Responsibility for posts to ASPIRES lies entirely with the original author.

> > Do NOT post mail off-list without the author's permission.

> > When in doubt, please refer to our list rules at:

> > http://www.aspires-relationships.com/info_rules.htm

> > ASPIRES ~ Climbing the mountain TOGETHER

> > http://www.aspires-relationships.com

> >

[Guest guest]

I can't speak for UW. UW has the Autism Center -

http://depts.washington.edu/uwautism/index.php. UW's Disability Services Office

is at http://www.washington.edu/admin/dso/. Should be good starting points for

you. I googled online.

I am going back for a different degree. First bachelor's degree was in

financial counseling and planning at Purdue. This one will be in accounting.

>I'm seriously considering going back for a different degree, and this thread

made me realize I can get accommodations now. Maybe this time around won't be so

crazy-making.

>

> Would any of you by chance know if U-Dub has a disability office with autism

experience?

>

> Cheers,

>

>

[Guest guest]

, I've reviewed folks' responses to your questions and am in agreement with most of them. There are a few things about a return to post-secondary education that haven't been mentioned, but are very important to consider. [This post isn't going to be a detail by detail list of "things to do." That's pretty much a customized process, as you're beginning to recognize.] 1. It's helpful to get early, clear focus on what you want your additional education to accomplish. We've all seen how expensive education can be, and that it involves more than a mere investment in time. It's also more than a "money thing," especially for mature adults. Unless you're lucky enough to be independently wealthy, and even if you are, you can't expect exposure to the academic setting to work its own magic. Your maturity alone will allow you to have a greater sense of what works for you, and what you need -- right off the bat -- to work for you. If you're interested in career training, look at all aspects of how successful folks in that career derived their training. Some of them may not have relied upon formal post-secondary education at all, but a combination of luck, internships, paying or non-paying apprenticeships, shadowing, and other kinds of low cost (in terms of money, not necessarily time) investments that turn out a much better rounded competitor. And that's just it: you'll be in a competitive market unless you're carving out a completely new niche or addressing an unaddressed need that you can actually document with numbers and other "believable elements" to your ideas that you can share and enthuse others with in the hopes of securing their support (of all kinds). The metrics used by persons selling themselves as new merchandise in the employment market are measureable, usually numbers driven, and objective. They are numbers and outcomes that are independently verifiable and that have "gravitas." If not, they're just mouthing smoke and mirrors sold to them by people who've found their place in the desperation market feeding on others who are willing to try just anything to change their current circumstances. 2. As far as specific accommodations you request: while there are a number of them widely recognized by ADA officers at post-secondary institutions, the real objective to attaining accommodations is that the accommodation actually delivers what you need. In order to determine what you need, it might be helpful to look at how you learn, and you can start by looking at how you learned -- or didn't -- the last time you tried formal education. There are all kinds of tests and measures that have been developed over the last 15 years that simply didn't exist when you were last in school, and they have varying degrees of validity in identifying adult specific learning disabilities. There's every reason to believe that mature adults do, indeed, learn differently than kids, late adolescents, and young adults. The processes chosen by "learning adults" are often quite different than those used by younger individuals because they are based upon more mature adults' experiences in life roles, not just in the formal education classroom setting commonly visited right after high school, or even after a short stint in the military service or a church's formal religious missionary programs that send their members out into the community, and often out of the country. So, try to find out whether your institution has people qualified to conduct adult specific learning disabilities testing, and use any opportunity you're told about to be tested and have your own concerns, whether bad or good, confirmed by persons truly disinterested in the outcome. For adults, specific learning disability testing should also identify how the individual learns and outlines their learning strengths, not just their deficits. Having a strength-based assessment allows the adult to make intelligent choices based on what they know that already works. Having a strength-based assessment that you can carry around with you provides you with a reminder of your strengths and abilities outside of the community college, and can be of value to anyone else working with you in the future. Many so-called learning disability specialists have become "whores to the institution they serve" rather than servants of the people who seek help from them to know more about their challenges and strengths as learners. K-12 schools – the average source for community college bound young-adults -- are infamous breeding grounds for industrial-strength denial and smoke and mirrors that's self-serving. In other words, many so-called educational experts are hired to tell the school systems that the institutions are just fine, and that the problem is so individual with the persons they're testing that it's all on the individual, and never on the institution, to change. This is morally indefensible, and you must be aware that this is a built-in conflict of interest with many learning disability specialists who work for or are highly dependent upon testing referrals from, educational institutions. While you may not feel a drain in the pocketbook, you also may not be getting information of unique, personal value unless you're willing to approach such testing and evaluation with a critical eye, and listen for feedback from others who know you well and respect you as and independent, mature adult. If you have doubts about how you learn, you’ll be getting feedback from people who’ve known you for awhile. This kind of “social, subjective confirmation†is likely to be more useful and something you’ll return to time after time much more often than the results of one-time testing, even testing and an evaluation done by an experienced and supportive testing and measures expert. 3. Post-secondary education "should" provide you with critical thinking skills if you don't have them already. It shouldn't be about rote memorization of facts, a process that renders you almost instantaneously obsolete in the world of changing factual knowledge. If your area of adult self-support interest is only indirectly benefitted from certain coursework or programs, consider going for an independent major, or self-designed, faculty-supervised alternative curriculum or degree, or an interdepartmental or multi-departmental degree that isn't "terminal." This means that there should be room "with the results" to continue your education or post-graduate experience in the field you've designed or carved out for yourself. If not, ask yourself why not, and I'm pretty sure you'd be shocked with what you learn. That’s because many post-secondary but easily accessible educational institutions offer coursework or majors that’s truly “dead ended.†Many adults are going on alternative routes to learning because they can't afford full-time school OR because they realize that real-world testing what they have recently learned is critical in determining the VALUE of what they've just learned in a non-institutional setting. Good schools are accommodating students requesting mid-course administrative leaves them because they schools recognize that they're producing many unemployable graduates using old tried-and-not-true-anymore methods, and the press of the current educational crisis in post-secondary education has caught them with their pants down “on stage.†This means that with adequate foresight and planning, you could customize your educational experience to include learning in non-traditional forums, such as out-of-classroom work,research or project work, and scheduled breaks that take you out of the post-secondary setting as a part of your educational plan, independent reading (the British model), apprenticeships and mentoring arrangements with periodic assessments by experts in the field of what you've learned. If the institution you're interested in allows other scholars in the field of your interest to assess your subject mastery, this really means "they're over the hump" and worthwhile spending time in or at. In other words, you're going for subject mastery, not "method mastery," or professor-pleasing behavior." If you encounter professors or whole departments insistent on people in their program "going through the paces," ask yourself if what they're demanding of their mature adult students will actually produce the results you are looking for, not merely the results they report, or think they're reporting. A lot of that is smoke and mirrors and self-serving half truths. 4. On Disability-related Accommodations. Some disability-related educational accommodations for adult learners at post-secondary settings are formulaic and commonly found on accommodations short-lists, such as note takers, a sensory friendly site, voice recorders, and extended time on tests. These aren't necessarily "universal" accommodations. Some universal accommodations have been around for a while, and they're usually proposed as being of benefit to anyone, not just a person with a permanently disabling condition. Crutches, canes, and personal mobility assistance devices are often mentioned as being of benefit to anyone experiencing a temporary physical disability, and since accidents and temporary disabilities are a common phenomenon, the value of such an accommodation is more readily apparent. What isn't apparent, however, are accommodations for the way people think, express themselves, receive information, or remember and associate and solve problems with correct outcomes using morally acceptable alternative means. That's the stuff now measureable with some adult specific learning disability tests and measures. As I've suggested above, these items weren't even on the drawing boards of educational psychologists ten or fifteen years ago.. Ultimately, the reasonableness of accommodations are measured as they apply to a particular individual and that individual's unique circumstances. That's why outcomes in disability rights law suits are always characterized by cautionary language when they're being assessed in future lawsuits as precedent-setting. For employment accommodations, there are the "undue burden" and "universal applicability" concepts. Undue burden applies to quantifiable costs to the institution applied in a balancing test of individual rights versus institutional identity criteria, not an absolute cost metric. For an accommodation, the disabled students advisor may come up with "one-size-fits-all-alternative-learners" traps. Accommodations CAN be individualized providing they also pass the undue burden sniff test, but remember that BOTH SIDES figure into this calculus, not just the school. Determine whether the material being tested could be taught a different way, or whether the testing itself tests subject mastery rather than "method mastery." Worse yet, borrowing a phrase from special education, testing may merely test the disability, not primarily what one learns or how one learns. Unless you're learning particular step-by-step or "prove your step" techniques, if YOU demand subject mastery assessment at the end of your coursework or research, it will be hard for the institution to deny you alternative methods of proving that you have mastered the subject matter. If they always come up with "that's the way we've always done it," think about going elsewhere. You don't have time to waste cow-towing to a medieval institution’s out of date, disconnected-with-reality training model. "Method" always involves training, but not always education. If like an animal you need "training," then ask yourself, "How easy it will be for me to generalize this training into real-life situational survival?" If you can't come up with good answers for yourself this far into your adulthood, you don't have the time the professor experts in "training" expect many of their younger students to learn about this mistaken approach to life-time learning. You've already burned a good length of that candle already, so don't get sucked into "the wait and see" game. You don't have time for it.At one time it was possible for community colleges to insist on cutting corners in education by using group instruction and group assignments primarily because the colleges offered a low-cost post-secondary setting for adults. That’s not true any more. CC’s have become higher-educational ghettos for all kinds of adults with physical and learning disabilities Students are getting themselves permanently in hock for tens of thousands of dollars, even at community colleges because of tuition hikes, and prevalence of non-dischargeable student loans. They may not truly offer “an educational good deal.†Remember, that if you focus on subject mastery rather than how the material is taught, a truly responsible and reasonable adult educator should be willing to consider your mastery of the topic more important than their self-interest in "knowing how to teach." After all, instructors are not experts in how you learn. You are.And there may be ways – GASP –of taking coursework on-line, or on distance learning, or searching for private colleges or even carefully researched on-the-job training set-ups that grant credit for life-experience that are truly more flexible, cost-beneficial, and controllable than in-person large-class settings. Community colleges aren’t the only game in town any more, and if you use some of the criteria I’ve alluded to above in determining the real value of what you’re seeking, you may choose another route to attain an outcome where you’re more in control right from the “git go.†One last thing I’d say, and that’s if you’ve found the executive function organizing techniques for work and time management of your friend to be helpful, in a well-designed disabled students set up at a community college they might be able to compensate you or directly contract with your “helper.†CC’s do arrange paid-for tutor time, or grant-related payment could apply directly to that expense in any student financial plan. That, too, may be considered an acceptable and already-proven workaround for you. Good luck. N. Meyer education accommodations I am going to be starting in September at a local community college, and have an appointment this week with a counselor at the Disability Center. Since I have never had accommodations, I'm not sure what to ask for which would be helpful. (Last time I was in college was 27 years ago, and no one knew about AS, NLD or anything else.) My biggest problems are handwriting, computer skills, group work, organization and time management. What accommodations could I ask for? What might be helpful? Thanks for any ideas. Andromeda