Re: Have a question - Pariculate Sampling

[Guest guest]

Dr. Thrasher, could you say more about this sampling protocol, please? What

would particulate sampling include - bacteria, VOCs, endo/exotoxins? Would the

list be different if the water inrusion is from sewer water?

Thanks,

~Haley

" Jack Thrasher, Ph.D. " <toxicologist1@...> wrote:

Dr. Kong'u is quite correct. The other aspect that mold cultures do

not examine is the fine particulate matter (less than the size of hyphae and

spores). The studies in Poland by Gorny and those in the U.S by Brael and Straus

clearly demonsrate that the fine particulates contain many toxic compounds,

including mycotoxins. If you are going to do air sampling, then also consider

the fine (nanoparticulates) in the sampling protocol.

Jack D. Thrasher, Ph.D.

Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

www.drthrasher.org

toxicologist1@...

Off: 775-636-8513

Cell - 505-937-1150

Fax - 775-636-7403

L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

Trauma Specialist

sandracrawley@...

530-644-6035 - Off

775-309-3994 - Cell

This message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be considered

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(and any attachments) without my prior written consent is strictly prohibited

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Thank you in advance for your compliance.

[Guest guest]

Haley,

I'll let Dr Thrasher speak for himself and I don't mean to usurp him,

but if the water source is sewage then mold is the least of the

worries. The original study by Berry and Cole found typical sewage

contains over 80 agents (if I remember correctly) that include

INFECTIOUS bacteria, virus and blood-borne pathogens. Testing is

rarely necessary up front because removal can be assumed without

knowing the exact components of the sewage. Because the concern is

with infectious agents they must be killed. If dead they can't grow

inside your body. Cleaning and disinfecting is usually sufficient and

post remediation testing often is not needed. But mold is very

different because it is rarely infectious; the health concerns remain

whether dead or alive.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> Dr. Thrasher, could you say more about this sampling protocol, please? What

would particulate sampling include - bacteria, VOCs, endo/exotoxins? Would the

list be different if the water inrusion is from sewer water?

>

> Thanks,

>

> ~Haley

>

> " Jack Thrasher, Ph.D. " <toxicologist1@...> wrote:

> Dr. Kong'u is quite correct. The other aspect that mold cultures do

not examine is the fine particulate matter (less than the size of hyphae and

spores). The studies in Poland by Gorny and those in the U.S by Brael and Straus

clearly demonsrate that the fine particulates contain many toxic compounds,

including mycotoxins. If you are going to do air sampling, then also consider

the fine (nanoparticulates) in the sampling protocol.

> Jack D. Thrasher, Ph.D.

> Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

> www.drthrasher.org

> toxicologist1@...

> Off: 775-636-8513

> Cell - 505-937-1150

> Fax - 775-636-7403

>

> L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

> Trauma Specialist

> sandracrawley@...

> 530-644-6035 - Off

> 775-309-3994 - Cell

>

> This message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be considered

privileged and confidential. The forwarding or redistribution of this message

(and any attachments) without my prior written consent is strictly prohibited

and may violate privacy laws. Once the intended purpose of this message has been

served, please destroy the original message contents. If you have received this

message in error, please reply immediately to advise the sender of the

miscommunication and then delete the message and any copies you have printed.

Thank you in advance for your compliance.

>

>

[Guest guest]

The Mold I was exposed to was due to many toilet overflows for many

years and it was a highly used restroom by both employees and

Patients/Public in a Hospital. I bought a test kit from Pro-Lab and

will give it to my co-worker tomorrow. OSHA will not return my calls

since I discovered what made us all so sick. My Employer now says

there was no MOLD, AND if there was...it was caused by a plant or

something, BUT NOT WATER DAMAGE. Thats a bit scary about the type of

water content that caused the MOLD...really Bio-Hazard stuff!

> > Dr. Kong'u is quite correct. The other aspect that mold

cultures do not examine is the fine particulate matter (less than the

size of hyphae and spores). The studies in Poland by Gorny and those

in the U.S by Brael and Straus clearly demonsrate that the fine

particulates contain many toxic compounds, including mycotoxins. If

you are going to do air sampling, then also consider the fine

(nanoparticulates) in the sampling protocol.

> > Jack D. Thrasher, Ph.D.

> > Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

> > www.drthrasher.org

> > toxicologist1@...

> > Off: 775-636-8513

> > Cell - 505-937-1150

> > Fax - 775-636-7403

> >

> > L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

> > Trauma Specialist

> > sandracrawley@...

> > 530-644-6035 - Off

> > 775-309-3994 - Cell

> >

> > This message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be

considered privileged and confidential. The forwarding or

redistribution of this message (and any attachments) without my prior

written consent is strictly prohibited and may violate privacy laws.

Once the intended purpose of this message has been served, please

destroy the original message contents. If you have received this

message in error, please reply immediately to advise the sender of

the miscommunication and then delete the message and any copies you

have printed. Thank you in advance for your compliance.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Because you mentioned toilet overflows as the source of the water,

the following may be helpful.

The leading document on sewage remediation is the ANSI-IICRC S500

Standard and Reference Guide for Professional Water Damage

Restoration. It categorizes water into Category 1, 2 and 3.

Category 1 water is potable water from sanitary sources. However,

once it leaves the exit point it might not remain " clean. " An example

relevant to your situation would be a leak from the water line to

the toilet tank, or the tank itself leaks or overflows.

Category 2 water " contains significant contamination and has the

potential to cause discomfort or sickness if contacted or consumed by

humans. " A relevant example in S500 is: " overflows from toilet bowls

on the room side of the trap with some urine but no feces. "

Category 3 water " is grossly contaminated and can contain pathogenic,

toxigenic or other harmful agents. " A relevant example is: " toilet

backflows that originate from beyond the toilet trap regardless of

visible content or color. "

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> The Mold I was exposed to was due to many toilet overflows for many

> years and it was a highly used restroom by both employees and

> Patients/Public in a Hospital. I bought a test kit from Pro-Lab and

> will give it to my co-worker tomorrow. OSHA will not return my calls

> since I discovered what made us all so sick. My Employer now says

> there was no MOLD, AND if there was...it was caused by a plant or

> something, BUT NOT WATER DAMAGE. Thats a bit scary about the type of

> water content that caused the MOLD...really Bio-Hazard stuff!

>

>

>

> > > Dr. Kong'u is quite correct. The other aspect that mold

> cultures do not examine is the fine particulate matter (less than the

> size of hyphae and spores). The studies in Poland by Gorny and those

> in the U.S by Brael and Straus clearly demonsrate that the fine

> particulates contain many toxic compounds, including mycotoxins. If

> you are going to do air sampling, then also consider the fine

> (nanoparticulates) in the sampling protocol.

> > > Jack D. Thrasher, Ph.D.

> > > Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

> > > www.drthrasher.org

> > > toxicologist1@...

> > > Off: 775-636-8513

> > > Cell - 505-937-1150

> > > Fax - 775-636-7403

> > >

> > > L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

> > > Trauma Specialist

> > > sandracrawley@...

> > > 530-644-6035 - Off

> > > 775-309-3994 - Cell

> > >

> > > This message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be

> considered privileged and confidential. The forwarding or

> redistribution of this message (and any attachments) without my prior

> written consent is strictly prohibited and may violate privacy laws.

> Once the intended purpose of this message has been served, please

> destroy the original message contents. If you have received this

> message in error, please reply immediately to advise the sender of

> the miscommunication and then delete the message and any copies you

> have printed. Thank you in advance for your compliance.

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

this just makes my poor head spin. is there a good list somewhere of

what should be tested for in a DMB? what is detected by dist bulk

samples, air testing, ect. I take it that if you were exposed to

carbon dioxide from a water heater that was not bented right, or got

monoxide poisoning from a uncapped sewer pope under the house and

these were repaired that nothing could be detected from them now,

what about in your body? long after the fact.

--- In , " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...>

wrote:

>

> Because you mentioned toilet overflows as the source of the water,

> the following may be helpful.

>

> The leading document on sewage remediation is the ANSI-IICRC S500

> Standard and Reference Guide for Professional Water Damage

> Restoration. It categorizes water into Category 1, 2 and 3.

>

> Category 1 water is potable water from sanitary sources. However,

> once it leaves the exit point it might not remain " clean. " An

example

> relevant to your situation would be a leak from the water line to

> the toilet tank, or the tank itself leaks or overflows.

>

> Category 2 water " contains significant contamination and has the

> potential to cause discomfort or sickness if contacted or consumed

by

> humans. " A relevant example in S500 is: " overflows from toilet

bowls

> on the room side of the trap with some urine but no feces. "

>

> Category 3 water " is grossly contaminated and can contain

pathogenic,

> toxigenic or other harmful agents. " A relevant example is: " toilet

> backflows that originate from beyond the toilet trap regardless of

> visible content or color. "

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the info Carl, and the 3rd would be mine and co-workers

case, with even still a few added particles of matter. The " infected "

exam room was used for minor surgery for ingrown and fungal nail

removals, woundcare debredements, cast and splint removals And

celebration pot-lucks.

--- In , " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...>

wrote:

>

> Because you mentioned toilet overflows as the source of the water,

> the following may be helpful.

>

> The leading document on sewage remediation is the ANSI-IICRC S500

> Standard and Reference Guide for Professional Water Damage

> Restoration. It categorizes water into Category 1, 2 and 3.

>

> Category 1 water is potable water from sanitary sources. However,

> once it leaves the exit point it might not remain " clean. " An

example

> relevant to your situation would be a leak from the water line to

> the toilet tank, or the tank itself leaks or overflows.

>

> Category 2 water " contains significant contamination and has the

> potential to cause discomfort or sickness if contacted or consumed

by

> humans. " A relevant example in S500 is: " overflows from toilet

bowls

> on the room side of the trap with some urine but no feces. "

>

> Category 3 water " is grossly contaminated and can contain

pathogenic,

> toxigenic or other harmful agents. " A relevant example is: " toilet

> backflows that originate from beyond the toilet trap regardless of

> visible content or color. "

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>