Re: Complete turn-around in relationship [First post]

[Guest guest]

Hiya Moana,

I would suggest something like having an 'A' card - like giving him a sport red

or yellow card. I used the 'teenager' example as well, for some of his moody

and defensive/aggressive behaviour - 'oh come on, grow up, you donut' and so on,

to be honest, I would recommend that you sit down with a glass of wine, a bit of

paper and a pen, and chat together about what you can say, as it needs to be

natural for you, so it comes easily, and it needs to be something that will

'break through' to his mind, when he's 'off again'! It's kind of a way of

having a time out card.

I am really glad that my contributions have been useful to you, feel free to ask

more questions, there's such a wealth of knowledge here!

> > > > >

> > > > > Hello all, and thank you for welcoming me into this community.

> > > > >

> > > > > I apologize for the wall of text! This is my first post and I have

something of a breakthrough to communicate to all of you.

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm a 28 year old woman, a literature student at the PhD level in

Montreal, Canada. I'm currently in a relationship with a 29 year old man, a

music & programming graduate at the Master's level. We have always discussed and

suspected that he might have Asperger's, but until this day he remains

undiagnosed.

> > > > >

> > > > > We've had difficult times. Constant arguing, frustration on both

parts. I should mention that my boyfriend is not so deeply affected in social

areas. He understands and uses sarcasm, and after a few drinks he seems

completely normal. This adds to the " Cassandra syndrome " in that the friends I'm

not as close to find that Asperger's is a quick diagnosis. " Your boyfriend is

perfectly normal, " they say, " he jokes around with me all the time " . Well, he's

not. He rarely ever looks me in the eye, he answers odd things when I use

expressions instead of very literal language ( " Would you like to do this for me "

vs. " Please do this for me " yields VERY different answers... " Hm, let me think,

no I don't think I would like that, no " ), etc. I won't embark on a thorough list

of his mannerisms as I'm sure most of you know them all too well already.

> > > > >

> > > > > Anyway, my point is, we had a serious falling out lately. I told him

to leave the house despite him having nowhere to go and little money. He had

been living at my place, out of necessity but also out of love, for a while. But

recently I had been very unhappy and communicating this to him constantly, with

little to no change at all on his part. Eventually I decided that if he hadn't

managed to become independent of me, it wasn't my responsibility to baby him and

keep him in my house if I felt like the relationship wasn't bringing me anything

good anymore. And so he left the house and spent nights in coffee shops and

youth hostels for some days. I felt terrible about it, but I had to remember I

wasn't responsible for him, or for the choices he made that led him to not be

able to care for himself properly.

> > > > >

> > > > > This led to a complete turnaround. We kept communicating, and he

accepted the Asperger's home-diagnosis in a way he hadn't before. He expressed

this as having to accept that his thought process was atypical, and to realize

that he wasn't going to function so long as he was angry at other people for not

functioning the way he does. His former obsession with work, which left me

feeling lonely and nagging for a substantial relationship, has mutated into an

awareness that programming all the time made him into a " number cruncher " and

not much else, whereas he is also a rather creative creature - with a bachelor's

in music playing cello, and a lifelong hobby of creating electronic music. He

realized that doing nothing but work left little space for inspiration, and that

his life would be more efficient if he kept certain times in his life for other

activities, from leisure to cooking and cleaning with me.

> > > > >

> > > > > He has moved back in, but this time it isn't because I feel bad for

him. It's because I enjoy his company again. He has stopped fighting me about

everything, has started really hearing me out and trying to understand when I

express my feelings and frustrations. Myself, I have also been trying to

communicate more clearly, with literal language, and I interpret his sometimes

odd behaviour less as signs of him not caring for me, and more as symptoms of a

neurological condition. It hasn't been that long, but I know once he puts his

mind to something, he isn't likely to just let go. He's very obstinate when

trying to resolve a problem.

> > > > >

> > > > > So, this is my story of hope. It wasn't a formal diagnosis that led us

here, but the acceptance on both our parts that he has Aspie-like traits, and

that I will never see things the way he does.

> > > > >

> > > > > I hope this can inspire some of you struggling with this in your

relationships!

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I wanted to take the opportunity to reply to you. I discussed this with my

husband over the weekend, to secure an accurate opinion on his part over your

translation of what happened between us. I feel the need to respond directly,

not because I have some sort of viscious mission, but simply because you

interpreted my words, and I want the accurate perspective to be put forward.

1) You yourself coin the term bad Aspie behaviour - I certainly did not state

that the behaviour was bad, or make a judgement. It's simply behaviour that

does or doesn't work in our relationship. I feel that labelling things as good

or bad is devisive in the realms of disabilities and relationships in general.

2)I believe that you have somewhat over applied logic to my personal situation.

My husband also feels the same about this.

3)[REWRITE]We went through something similar last year, and found that it was

very helpful to our relationship how much my husband could change the way he

responded to things once he understood the detail and priorities of what I was

asking him to do, and once he focussed on them.

**This is over simplified and actually belittling the significance of what

happened.

" The keys there are understanding and focussing. He had thought for

quite a long time, more or less since we got to know each other, that

the relationship was working fine so there was no need to make any

special new effort to change anything with the way we were interacting. "

** My husband was in no doubt that our relationship was deteriorating badly as

we had had many discussions, many arguments, and many upsets leading up to the

final throwing out. I had told him clearly that I would be looking at divorce

if things didn't work out, because like Moana, I was desperately unhappy, with

the situation, and had to make the heart breaking decisions around rebuilding my

life independently of him.

" It was a very big wakeup call shock to him when I threw him out, and

it put him into a kind of survival mode where he re-assessed all his

basic living priorities. Despite his normal testosterone and male

hormone levels, intimacy hadn't come naturally to him with me, and he

didn't feel that forcing or trying to fake such things would be honest

or make much sense. He was able to get some release out of porn since

it didn't require any pretence on his part.[/REWRITE] "

** This appears to be over justifying the use of porn, merely as a tool. My

husband says that he was aware of the wrongness of his addiction to porn, which

he had resorted to, despite discussions about trying to reinvent our intimacy, a

great deal of effort on my part to make myself more appealing, trying to make it

more aspie friendly, and so on. He had become addicted to porn, and felt

terribly guilty about it, and he was spent, so he literally had noting to give

in sexual terms. It's also worth noting that he had previously had no problems

with sexual relations prior, but because I had had a nervous breakdown 3 years

ago, there had been a great deal of stress which had affected both of our

abilities for maintaining intimacy. And here is the nub of the thing - it's

about tenderness, care and intimacy, not about a flat sexual interaction.

Basically, my husband was abundantly aware that our relationship was in the mire

and failing. There was no false illusion. However, due to his aspergers, he

lacked the ability to generate alternative solutions, as he could not empathise

with me, and didn't have the social imagination to cope with quite a complex

situation. So instead, he did what he had previously done, disengaged with the

home life, shut down and waited for it to pass, without doing anything, because

he simply didn't understand what he needed to do. He wanted to do something,

but at that time, I was unable to convey what I needed, as I didn't understand

about aspergers either. This led to a crisis where I kicked him out.

This did provide motivation for him, initially, however, since then,we have

worked on maintaining the motivation through other channels.

This involves him needing positive feedback, that he is doing the right thing,

and me learning to communicate that feedback in a positive way. Also, I have

learned to change my expectations. I know I am never going to have the kind of

relationship where he intuitively knows I need a hug or massage, and he's never

going to share knowing glances, and finish my sentences. But note, I haven't

lowered my expectations, I just have changed them. I have been clear with him

that we both deserve respect and to be taken seriously. Whereas he had tended

to take me for granted and simply not listen to me. I have had to assert my

expectations around being heard and respected. That things that are important

to me, may not be to him and vice versa, but that we both need to respect

eachother. Also, it's down to him to motivate himself to some extent if he

wants us to stay together, just the same rules apply to me.

I believe, , that you and I are coming from vastly different perspectives,

and I appreciate from your postings that you do not seem to have or recognise

the encouragement and reward for making effort, and perceive that this must come

externally and be awarded, like getting a gold star for your homework, or a

medal of recognition for effort. I beleive that the ultimate reward for the

activities is being in a positive relationship that is content, secure and

reasonably happy and stress free, on a day to day basis. Somewhere to both feel

safe and appreciated. (In my case, Jon and I substitute for the other's

weaknesses. Effectively I manage Jon's life, and help him with his

interactions, and develop his social life. He helps me manage my condition be

developing some routines, planning and applied thinking about situations.)

If that is not happening, is it the right relationship, with the right person?

Are both partners contributing properly, without caveats or additional

expectations? This applies to all relationships, all personalities across the

board, regardless of disabilities or tendencies.

Take Care,

Becky

>

> > Gotta agree with Helen here.

> >

> > Logic does not secure or sustain a committed relationship. Love does.

>

> , Helen,

>

> Yes, I can agree with you both that love and respect are the

> momentum elements that should keep a relationship going, and I'll add

> that that becomes particularly significant when the road is uphill.

>

> Aspie logic and rationality, though, are like kind of mountainous

> terrain that can introduce uphill gradients for NTs, especially when an

> NT's emotions are dominant.

>

> Love is such a subjective concept and for me personally it's quite a

> difficult one, but I'm pretty sure it's not an inexhaustible element

> that can be relied upon to provide the necessary momentum forever. It's

> more like a fire. It needs to be tended and fed every so often, and it

> can quite easily be extinguished with a bucket of cold water!

>

> > Love involves a level of non-self-referential blind trust, and if both

partners are not on board with this notion, there's ultimately nothing in it for

the partner experiencing constant deprivation.

>

> OK, but I'd argue that having to resort repetitively to blind trust and

> do things for your partner that you don't particularly like or don't

> understand, is like going uphill; it slowly uses up the available

> momentum and will eventually become exhausted unless some perceived

> benefit for the individual comes out of it. Could be lucky and come to

> a downhill stretch for a while, but basically in the longer run the

> fire needs to be restoked or new energy put in somehow.

>

> > Long-term relationships, such as family relationships, thrive on commitment

and a sense of duty to others that has a logical component to it, but only as " a

starter.

>

> Yes, absolutely agreed. That sense of duty is like a length of rope.

> It can only be extended so far, and then it reaches its limit.

>

> " It's like what's environmentally necessary to keep a sour-dough

> starter alive when making French bread. Kill the spark, and there goes

> the batch AND one's claim to the product.

>

> To my mind. the fire of love needs more than just a simple spark to

> maintain it. It needs to be refuelled and it needs to be protected from

> the rain.

>

> Just a few thoughts, anyway.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

What you say is reasonable, and I am reminded of a quote by Albert Einstein that

goes like this: " Women marry men hoping they will change. Men marry women hoping

they will not. So each is inevitably disappointed. " LOL. What I was talking

about though is bit different - an extremely unequal relationship where one

person does all the giving and accommodating, rarely to see it reciprocated in

kind, or otherwise. Through the lens of time I have come to realize that AS

alone doesn't explain that though; there are a whole combination of factors -

both his and hers - that combine to make a perfect storm.

- Helen

> >

> >

> >

> > I second your point. I can get very frustrated when I reason through things

and act on best intentions only for things to turn to mush. Particularly when I

don't understand why.

>

> Hi Steve,

> This is exactly how the other partner often feels too! You really can't

> under estimate the impact that this kind of miscommunication has. If

> everything they tried over the years to have a better communication and

> intimacy fails, if they feel they are never really listened to unless it

> suits their partner because their partner wants something, it becomes

> very damaging to their self esteem.

>

> Since the problems sometimes only seem to manifest themselves in the

> home and no one else seems to have a problem with their partner (because

> the partner has really compartmentalized his private and work life) they

> start to doubt their own sanity and think they are the ones with the

> problem (hence the unofficial " CADD " label.)

>

> They start to think, " If the most significant person in my life doesn't

> hear me, maybe I'm the one who is off base, and I what I want or need

> doesn't matter .. I don't matter ... "

>

> Over time, this low self perception spills out into their interactions

> with just about everyone else they come into contact with, so it may be

> damaging to them socially and professionally as well. They may become

> people pleasers, never expecting anything in return, because that's how

> they perceive themselves now, they have value only if what they do makes

> others happy with them. They will continue to do this until they are

> sucked dry.

>

> Though some may believe they are acting in their partner's " best

> interest " if they are just doing what *they* feel is right and not

> specifically what their partner asked, it will just make the partner

> feel disregarded again. They should be honest at the outset and say

> (without anger) " I'm sorry, I don't know what you want, please help me

> to figure this out " and be prepared to really *listen* and make a

> *sustained effort* to meet those needs. Unfortunately, trying to do this

> retroactively after so many lost years may be like closing the barn

> doors after the horses got out.

>

> - Helen

>