Re: When do you start thinking about a NH? Carol/June.

[Guest guest]

Maybe Kaiser does things differently. Jim was never on Medicare before entering

the nh. I had him admitted by paramedics to ER, because he was highly

aggressive. They would ask him questions too and he would pull the " Show Time "

and answer things appropriately, but the paramedics knew me from so many visits

and they would ask what I wanted to do and I would say take him to ER. On the

day I decided to put Jim in a nh,I asked to speak to the social worker at the

hospital and told her I was ready to put Jim in a nh and she gave me a list of

nhs that provided doctors from Kaiser in our area and I visited all the nh and

selected my top three and the first two were booked and my third had a room for

him. They kept Jim with a sitter for 3 days in the hospital, because yes, 3 days

in the hospital is a rule, before they could transport him to a nh and they had

to watch that he was not aggressive before sending him to the nh. He was never

put on Medicare and didn't receive any

therapy or any intervenous drugs. I had seen an Elder Care Attorney for about a

year and a half who told me that nhs will not usually accept coming in with

Medicaid, they'd rather have pay out of pocket, so I paid for the first few

months and then I applied for Medicaid and began on that when it processed

through.

Kaiser has even kept Jim over a night or two when I needed respite when he was

living at home. They told me they could hold him an extra night before releasing

him. They were always very understanding and actually everytime Jim was in ER

they would ask if I wanted to put Jim in a facility. Nothing to do with

Medicare, usually a UTI or some kind of infection like Pneumonia that didn't

require therapy or an IV drug only antibiotics orally. They were always willing

to help me move him to a nh when I was ready.

My Elder Care Attorney told me when I was ready to put Jim in a nh, to follow

the guidelines he gave me and that is what I did and it all processed through.

I have also been told by others when one is on Medicaid that they can only go

home 18 days out of the year. Medicaid and the nh staff have all agreed that Jim

can go home every weekend.

Since I am the one that admitted Jim to the nh, I know he was not on Medicare.

I would have loved if he could have received physical therapy, since he was

losing his walking abilities at the nh.

There was a time several years back that Jim was in the hospital for two weeks

and they transported him to a Convalescent Home for another two weeks and that

was on Medicare, because he needed continued care with an IV. I was not ready to

leave him there at the time and when he was well he was released to go home. But

this time, since I am the one that admitted him to the nh, there was no Medicare

for therapy involved.........Jan

adhd5464 wrote:

Yep! You understand it completely! We weren't fully aware of all the

in's and out's and we had Millie transported by ambulance after 2 cop

cars, a fire truck and an ambulance were all parked in our yard.

Her psychiatrist ended up calling the sheriff and insisted that if

the ambulance would not take her, the deputy was to deliver Millie to

the hospital himself in the squad car.

Medics didn't want to take her because she knew she was in her yard,

the day of the week, and her name! This was the day she came after

us with a board and was threatening to kill all of us, and the

bastard dogs.

Had we tried to transport, she could have easily broken a wrist, hip,

or arm if we tried to force her into the car.

Other than that, Mrs.Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?

Carol

>

> > When Millie had a UTI and we needed some respite,

> > they put Millie in a nursing home for several weeks

> > to build her back up, but inside of three weeks they

> > could not find enough wrong with her to allow her to

> > stay and still get paid by Medicare. They pretty

> > much said she could not stay unless she were

> > bedbound.

> >

> > LewyBody was not enough of a dx to allow her to

> > stay. Incontinence, might have been enough, but not

> > Lewy Body alone.

> > Had she been on dialysis, or something, we miy

> > have had a chance.

> > Lewy Body Dementia, in, and of itself, was not

> > enough.

> >

> > Millie was just too functional. She was stronger

> > than most of the residents. Even though she was on

> > a dementia ward, they were doing nothing in our

> > favor to figure out a way for her to stay.

> >

> > She may not have needed enough services by the

> > home to make her a profitable candidate. She was too

> > fit to need physical threapy, and she did not need

> > speech therapy, and the occupational therapist

> > didn't see much she could work toimprove.

> >

> > Now, if we were lied to, I didn't know it, but if

> > I requested her to be put in a nursing home

> > tomorrow, we would probably be shoo-ed off to

> > assisted living.

> >

> > Just because a family is tired of dealing with the

> > LO, it doesn't merit a bed in Fort Myers. I suppose

> > we could convince a doctor she is too dangerous, too

> > violent, and then we might get some help, but

> > medicare, and then medicaid, beds are very hard to

> > come by in our community.

> >

> > If Emma ran into any of those roadblocks, I wanted

> > her to be prepared. If grandma were denied, it

> > would be devastating. I wanted Emma to be have a

> > smooth admission experience, if need be.

> >

> > I am sure every state has different rules.

> > Florida is such a huge retirement mecca, and with

> > all the touristy stuff, we become fairly jaded about

> > a lot of things.

> >

> > Remember, I am not long from my own father's

> > stroke and 5 1/2 weeks of industrial strength

> > caregiving.

> >

> > If no one has any problems anywhere else, then

> > it's all gravy. If they run into roadblocks, they

> > will know they are not alone.

> >

> > So, there's my take!

> >

> > Carol

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them

> > fast with Yahoo! Search.

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

______________________________________________________________________

______________

> Be a better friend, newshound, and

> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

>

Welcome to LBDcaregivers.

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

Sorry I haven't been responding much the last day or

two. I HAVE been reading all of your posts and advice

but I just didn't have anything good to say and was

starting to feel like I abuse all of your niceness

with my whining. ;-)

We have at least a temporary solution now, after a

fashion. I will be physically here 7am-3pm Sunday

thru Friday and will be on-call (as usual) the rest of

the time, an aid will be here 7:30am-2pm on Saturdays,

and that same aid will start doing overnights 11pm-7am

Sunday thru Thursday so Bob and I can sleep without

one ear open.

Mom and I talked about this when she came over on

Sunday to snipe at me but apparently we were having 2

different conversations. When I got down to business

making phone calls yesterday and got all of this set

up she got angry at me again because apparently I

wasn't doing what she wanted me to. I got a lot of

" someone to stay FIVE nights?? Thats too expensive!

Why would you do that? What about X, Y, Z??!! " All

stuff we had already discussed! Yes, an aid that much

is not cheap but its not like Grandma is destitute!

The woman has $25,000 in ONE checking account alone!

That doesn't take in her several savings accounts and

all her investments. AND the more we search the more

bank accounts we have found that she never told anyone

about. I don't think she's a millionaire but its

looking like she's damn close and there os still more

coming INTO her checking account each month than is

getting spent. I think we're doing ok with the money.

Not that I want to spend all her money away but if

thats what it takes to keep her at home like my mom is

so vehement about than thats what it takes! A few

hours after all this I got an email she sent to my

uncles filling them in on things and of course she

made it sound like it was all her idea and she did all

the work to make it happen and she is SOOOOOOOOOO

exhausted and stressed out. Cute how she jumps all

over me initially then realizes what I did was the

right thing and takes all the credit.

Jan, you are right that my mother " taking care " of my

step-dad doesn't involve all that much actual care.

The only " more work " than usual factor with him is

that he is on a low bacteria diet so they have to get

a little creative with the grocery shopping and he

can't eat leftovers if they've been around more than

24 hours so there has to be a " real " cooked dinner

every night. Otherwise he is pretty capable of taking

care of himself and except for a minor bit of

" chemo-brain " he is mentally very capable. Mostly

that just seems to effect his reading. He can't focus

enough to read a book so he watches a lot of TV

instead. He also can't leave the house to go out into

the big germy world just yet. So mostly her care of

him is just her worrying.

I need to get over my own need to protect her. She

doesn't handle emotional stress well and starts doing

stupid things (like drinking) when she has too much to

deal with. Thats why I am where I am. Having had to

" take care " of alcoholic parents when I was young

turned me into the caregiver I am and I can't seem to

shake that role when it comes to her. And now she

expects it of me.

Sorry I don't have more good things to say. I'm so

glad that I can keep telling all of you all of this

and I know you don't think I'm exaggerating or being

dramatic like my family seems to. I wish I could make

them understand they way you all do. But I suppose

the only way for me to do that would be for me to

leave and MAKE them try to do what I do. ;-)

Emma

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Be a better friend, newshound, and

know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

[Guest guest]

Good for you Emma. Good luck with the new arrangement.

Doris, daughter of Ramona, 78yrs old, first diagnosed with AD in Sep 2004, then

changed to LBD in March of 2005. Living independently with much support until

now. On waiting list for NH. Meds: Reminyl, Wellbutrin and Seroquel.

(Mississauga, Canada)

Re: When do you start thinking about a NH? Carol/June.

Hi all,

Sorry I haven't been responding much the last day or

two. I HAVE been reading all of your posts and advice

but I just didn't have anything good to say and was

starting to feel like I abuse all of your niceness

with my whining. ;-)

We have at least a temporary solution now, after a

fashion. I will be physically here 7am-3pm Sunday

thru Friday and will be on-call (as usual) the rest of

the time, an aid will be here 7:30am-2pm on Saturdays,

and that same aid will start doing overnights 11pm-7am

Sunday thru Thursday so Bob and I can sleep without

one ear open.

Mom and I talked about this when she came over on

Sunday to snipe at me but apparently we were having 2

different conversations. When I got down to business

making phone calls yesterday and got all of this set

up she got angry at me again because apparently I

wasn't doing what she wanted me to. I got a lot of

" someone to stay FIVE nights?? Thats too expensive!

Why would you do that? What about X, Y, Z??!! " All

stuff we had already discussed! Yes, an aid that much

is not cheap but its not like Grandma is destitute!

The woman has $25,000 in ONE checking account alone!

That doesn't take in her several savings accounts and

all her investments. AND the more we search the more

bank accounts we have found that she never told anyone

about. I don't think she's a millionaire but its

looking like she's damn close and there os still more

coming INTO her checking account each month than is

getting spent. I think we're doing ok with the money.

Not that I want to spend all her money away but if

thats what it takes to keep her at home like my mom is

so vehement about than thats what it takes! A few

hours after all this I got an email she sent to my

uncles filling them in on things and of course she

made it sound like it was all her idea and she did all

the work to make it happen and she is SOOOOOOOOOO

exhausted and stressed out. Cute how she jumps all

over me initially then realizes what I did was the

right thing and takes all the credit.

Jan, you are right that my mother " taking care " of my

step-dad doesn't involve all that much actual care.

The only " more work " than usual factor with him is

that he is on a low bacteria diet so they have to get

a little creative with the grocery shopping and he

can't eat leftovers if they've been around more than

24 hours so there has to be a " real " cooked dinner

every night. Otherwise he is pretty capable of taking

care of himself and except for a minor bit of

" chemo-brain " he is mentally very capable. Mostly

that just seems to effect his reading. He can't focus

enough to read a book so he watches a lot of TV

instead. He also can't leave the house to go out into

the big germy world just yet. So mostly her care of

him is just her worrying.

I need to get over my own need to protect her. She

doesn't handle emotional stress well and starts doing

stupid things (like drinking) when she has too much to

deal with. Thats why I am where I am. Having had to

" take care " of alcoholic parents when I was young

turned me into the caregiver I am and I can't seem to

shake that role when it comes to her. And now she

expects it of me.

Sorry I don't have more good things to say. I'm so

glad that I can keep telling all of you all of this

and I know you don't think I'm exaggerating or being

dramatic like my family seems to. I wish I could make

them understand they way you all do. But I suppose

the only way for me to do that would be for me to

leave and MAKE them try to do what I do. ;-)

Emma

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

Be a better friend, newshound, and

know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile. yahoo.com/

;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ

[Guest guest]

Yeah, and I bet if they had to do what you do, they would put grandma in a nh!

Good planning. Glad you took the reins and did what you needed to do for you

and grandpa before things got worse.

Money should be coming out of that account anyway in case she does have to go to

a nh eventually. There needs to be some money set aside for stuff that they

don't even know yet.

Happy New Year and get some rest.

Hugs,

Donna R

Caregave for Mom (after I brought her from WI to MI) for 3 years and 4th year in

a nh.

She was almost 89 when she died in '02. No dx other than mine.

Re: Re: When do you start thinking about a NH?

Carol/June.

Good for you Emma. Good luck with the new arrangement.

Doris, daughter of Ramona, 78yrs old, first diagnosed with AD in Sep 2004, then

changed to LBD in March of 2005. Living independently with much support until

now. On waiting list for NH. Meds: Reminyl, Wellbutrin and Seroquel.

(Mississauga, Canada)

Re: When do you start thinking about a NH? Carol/June.

Hi all,

Sorry I haven't been responding much the last day or

two. I HAVE been reading all of your posts and advice

but I just didn't have anything good to say and was

starting to feel like I abuse all of your niceness

with my whining. ;-)

We have at least a temporary solution now, after a

fashion. I will be physically here 7am-3pm Sunday

thru Friday and will be on-call (as usual) the rest of

the time, an aid will be here 7:30am-2pm on Saturdays,

and that same aid will start doing overnights 11pm-7am

Sunday thru Thursday so Bob and I can sleep without

one ear open.

Mom and I talked about this when she came over on

Sunday to snipe at me but apparently we were having 2

different conversations. When I got down to business

making phone calls yesterday and got all of this set

up she got angry at me again because apparently I

wasn't doing what she wanted me to. I got a lot of

" someone to stay FIVE nights?? Thats too expensive!

Why would you do that? What about X, Y, Z??!! " All

stuff we had already discussed! Yes, an aid that much

is not cheap but its not like Grandma is destitute!

The woman has $25,000 in ONE checking account alone!

That doesn't take in her several savings accounts and

all her investments. AND the more we search the more

bank accounts we have found that she never told anyone

about. I don't think she's a millionaire but its

looking like she's damn close and there os still more

coming INTO her checking account each month than is

getting spent. I think we're doing ok with the money.

Not that I want to spend all her money away but if

thats what it takes to keep her at home like my mom is

so vehement about than thats what it takes! A few

hours after all this I got an email she sent to my

uncles filling them in on things and of course she

made it sound like it was all her idea and she did all

the work to make it happen and she is SOOOOOOOOOO

exhausted and stressed out. Cute how she jumps all

over me initially then realizes what I did was the

right thing and takes all the credit.

Jan, you are right that my mother " taking care " of my

step-dad doesn't involve all that much actual care.

The only " more work " than usual factor with him is

that he is on a low bacteria diet so they have to get

a little creative with the grocery shopping and he

can't eat leftovers if they've been around more than

24 hours so there has to be a " real " cooked dinner

every night. Otherwise he is pretty capable of taking

care of himself and except for a minor bit of

" chemo-brain " he is mentally very capable. Mostly

that just seems to effect his reading. He can't focus

enough to read a book so he watches a lot of TV

instead. He also can't leave the house to go out into

the big germy world just yet. So mostly her care of

him is just her worrying.

I need to get over my own need to protect her. She

doesn't handle emotional stress well and starts doing

stupid things (like drinking) when she has too much to

deal with. Thats why I am where I am. Having had to

" take care " of alcoholic parents when I was young

turned me into the caregiver I am and I can't seem to

shake that role when it comes to her. And now she

expects it of me.

Sorry I don't have more good things to say. I'm so

glad that I can keep telling all of you all of this

and I know you don't think I'm exaggerating or being

dramatic like my family seems to. I wish I could make

them understand they way you all do. But I suppose

the only way for me to do that would be for me to

leave and MAKE them try to do what I do. ;-)

Emma

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

Be a better friend, newshound, and

know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile. yahoo.com/

;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ

[Guest guest]

Emma,

Sounds like you have made significant headway with

your mom! So what if she takes the credit, at least

the deed is done. Hope it all works out for you.

lisa

Engles

SEIU-UHW Shop Steward

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Looking for last minute shopping deals?

Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

[Guest guest]

Jan, evidently Kaiser was paying his primary costs

instead of Medicare. The Medicare rules I was writing

about are federal, I'm sure, and you can't put them in

a hospital with Medicare being the primary carrier

without a very good reason, nor can they go into the

NH on Medicare for the reasons I stated previously.

If they do, improvement has to be made in the area in

which they are put in the NH within the 20 days

Medicare allows for 80 percent pay. If they don't

improve, as my husband didn't, then you go on private

pay or Medicaid if you have that established. His

first 20 days were fully paid by Medicare and BCBS,

our secondary carrier, but the next 80 days (of the

100 MC allows) were private pay with no secondary

coverage because Medicare didn't approve. After I got

him approved for Medicaid, they did make it

retroactive, so I only had to pay the share we were

assessed by Medicaid instead of the full $157 a day.

So, I would guess that your insurance company coverage

was the reason Medicare wasn't used. Apparently, they

must have the same 3-day hospital rule as Medicare,

though, if they kept him 3 days. Are you sure that

Medicare didn't pay that?

S--- Janet Colello wrote:

> Maybe Kaiser does things differently. Jim was never

> on Medicare before entering the nh. I had him

> admitted by paramedics to ER, because he was highly

> aggressive. They would ask him questions too and he

> would pull the " Show Time " and answer things

> appropriately, but the paramedics knew me from so

> many visits and they would ask what I wanted to do

> and I would say take him to ER. On the day I

> decided to put Jim in a nh,I asked to speak to the

> social worker at the hospital and told her I was

> ready to put Jim in a nh and she gave me a list of

> nhs that provided doctors from Kaiser in our area

> and I visited all the nh and selected my top three

> and the first two were booked and my third had a

> room for him. They kept Jim with a sitter for 3 days

> in the hospital, because yes, 3 days in the hospital

> is a rule, before they could transport him to a nh

> and they had to watch that he was not aggressive

> before sending him to the nh. He was never put on

> Medicare and didn't receive any

> therapy or any intervenous drugs. I had seen an

> Elder Care Attorney for about a year and a half who

> told me that nhs will not usually accept coming in

> with Medicaid, they'd rather have pay out of pocket,

> so I paid for the first few months and then I

> applied for Medicaid and began on that when it

> processed through.

> Kaiser has even kept Jim over a night or two when

> I needed respite when he was living at home. They

> told me they could hold him an extra night before

> releasing him. They were always very understanding

> and actually everytime Jim was in ER they would ask

> if I wanted to put Jim in a facility. Nothing to do

> with Medicare, usually a UTI or some kind of

> infection like Pneumonia that didn't require therapy

> or an IV drug only antibiotics orally. They were

> always willing to help me move him to a nh when I

> was ready.

> My Elder Care Attorney told me when I was ready

> to put Jim in a nh, to follow the guidelines he gave

> me and that is what I did and it all processed

> through.

> I have also been told by others when one is on

> Medicaid that they can only go home 18 days out of

> the year. Medicaid and the nh staff have all agreed

> that Jim can go home every weekend.

> Since I am the one that admitted Jim to the nh, I

> know he was not on Medicare. I would have loved if

> he could have received physical therapy, since he

> was losing his walking abilities at the nh.

> There was a time several years back that Jim was

> in the hospital for two weeks and they transported

> him to a Convalescent Home for another two weeks and

> that was on Medicare, because he needed continued

> care with an IV. I was not ready to leave him there

> at the time and when he was well he was released to

> go home. But this time, since I am the one that

> admitted him to the nh, there was no Medicare for

> therapy involved.........Jan

>

>

> adhd5464 wrote:

> Yep! You understand it completely! We weren't

> fully aware of all the

> in's and out's and we had Millie transported by

> ambulance after 2 cop

> cars, a fire truck and an ambulance were all parked

> in our yard.

>

> Her psychiatrist ended up calling the sheriff and

> insisted that if

> the ambulance would not take her, the deputy was to

> deliver Millie to

> the hospital himself in the squad car.

>

> Medics didn't want to take her because she knew she

> was in her yard,

> the day of the week, and her name! This was the day

> she came after

> us with a board and was threatening to kill all of

> us, and the

> bastard dogs.

>

> Had we tried to transport, she could have easily

> broken a wrist, hip,

> or arm if we tried to force her into the car.

>

> Other than that, Mrs.Lincoln, how did you enjoy the

> play?

>

> Carol

>

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> > > When Millie had a UTI and we needed some

> respite,

> > > they put Millie in a nursing home for several

> weeks

> > > to build her back up, but inside of three weeks

> they

> > > could not find enough wrong with her to allow

> her to

> > > stay and still get paid by Medicare. They pretty

> > > much said she could not stay unless she were

> > > bedbound.

> > >

> > > LewyBody was not enough of a dx to allow her to

> > > stay. Incontinence, might have been enough, but

> not

>

=== message truncated ===

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Looking for last minute shopping deals?

Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

[Guest guest]

Hi June,

Yes, I am sure that Medicare did not pay for Jim's stay in the nh at first.

From day one I paid out of pocket until Medicaid kicked in. You are right,

Kaiser does pay for Jim's primary costs instead of Medicare/Medicaid. They pick

up all of his medications too. It is 0 payments for Jim's medications and no

copayments and 0 payments for hospital stays. That is why I was so confused why

you and Carol were saying that Medicare rules played a part in getting your LO

in a nh. The only time that happened for Jim is when Kaiser transported him from

a hospital stay to a Convalescent Home for continued treatment of an IV. Kaiser

has different rules, but they did the 3 day stay in the hospital with a sitter

in Jim's room all three days, because I admitted him to ER when he was highly

aggressive and requested to the Social Worker to admit him to a nh and then he

had to stay the 3 days with a sitter in his room that was a Kaiser sitter to

make sure he was not aggressive before

admitting him to a nh.

Unless someone is on Kaiser, I see I am misleading everyone.

Thanks so much, now I see the difference. I'm glad you cleared that up.

It was not difficult for me at all to admit Jim to the nh when I was ready.

It is too bad it is not like that for everyone who wants to admit a LO to a nh

when they feel they can no longer handle it. Because of Kaiser, it is also why

I can have Jim home for the weekends. I hear from so many about there are 18

days a year that a LO can go home for a visit. It makes so much more sense to me

that a LO can go home on weekends if it is possible for them to do so. I know it

lifts Jim's spirits to be home and gives him something to look forward to each

week. It seems so much more humane and the CNAs love it, it's one less person to

take care of at the nh for them on those days. They are on overload. It works

for me with the respite inbetween the days that Jim comes home. It's an all

around winner. I was thinking this worked for everyone, but now I see the

Insurance Coverage is different than most.

Thanks June.

June Christensen wrote:

Jan, evidently Kaiser was paying his primary costs

instead of Medicare. The Medicare rules I was writing

about are federal, I'm sure, and you can't put them in

a hospital with Medicare being the primary carrier

without a very good reason, nor can they go into the

NH on Medicare for the reasons I stated previously.

If they do, improvement has to be made in the area in

which they are put in the NH within the 20 days

Medicare allows for 80 percent pay. If they don't

improve, as my husband didn't, then you go on private

pay or Medicaid if you have that established. His

first 20 days were fully paid by Medicare and BCBS,

our secondary carrier, but the next 80 days (of the

100 MC allows) were private pay with no secondary

coverage because Medicare didn't approve. After I got

him approved for Medicaid, they did make it

retroactive, so I only had to pay the share we were

assessed by Medicaid instead of the full $157 a day.

So, I would guess that your insurance company coverage

was the reason Medicare wasn't used. Apparently, they

must have the same 3-day hospital rule as Medicare,

though, if they kept him 3 days. Are you sure that

Medicare didn't pay that?

S--- Janet Colello wrote:

> Maybe Kaiser does things differently. Jim was never

> on Medicare before entering the nh. I had him

> admitted by paramedics to ER, because he was highly

> aggressive. They would ask him questions too and he

> would pull the " Show Time " and answer things

> appropriately, but the paramedics knew me from so

> many visits and they would ask what I wanted to do

> and I would say take him to ER. On the day I

> decided to put Jim in a nh,I asked to speak to the

> social worker at the hospital and told her I was

> ready to put Jim in a nh and she gave me a list of

> nhs that provided doctors from Kaiser in our area

> and I visited all the nh and selected my top three

> and the first two were booked and my third had a

> room for him. They kept Jim with a sitter for 3 days

> in the hospital, because yes, 3 days in the hospital

> is a rule, before they could transport him to a nh

> and they had to watch that he was not aggressive

> before sending him to the nh. He was never put on

> Medicare and didn't receive any

> therapy or any intervenous drugs. I had seen an

> Elder Care Attorney for about a year and a half who

> told me that nhs will not usually accept coming in

> with Medicaid, they'd rather have pay out of pocket,

> so I paid for the first few months and then I

> applied for Medicaid and began on that when it

> processed through.

> Kaiser has even kept Jim over a night or two when

> I needed respite when he was living at home. They

> told me they could hold him an extra night before

> releasing him. They were always very understanding

> and actually everytime Jim was in ER they would ask

> if I wanted to put Jim in a facility. Nothing to do

> with Medicare, usually a UTI or some kind of

> infection like Pneumonia that didn't require therapy

> or an IV drug only antibiotics orally. They were

> always willing to help me move him to a nh when I

> was ready.

> My Elder Care Attorney told me when I was ready

> to put Jim in a nh, to follow the guidelines he gave

> me and that is what I did and it all processed

> through.

> I have also been told by others when one is on

> Medicaid that they can only go home 18 days out of

> the year. Medicaid and the nh staff have all agreed

> that Jim can go home every weekend.

> Since I am the one that admitted Jim to the nh, I

> know he was not on Medicare. I would have loved if

> he could have received physical therapy, since he

> was losing his walking abilities at the nh.

> There was a time several years back that Jim was

> in the hospital for two weeks and they transported

> him to a Convalescent Home for another two weeks and

> that was on Medicare, because he needed continued

> care with an IV. I was not ready to leave him there

> at the time and when he was well he was released to

> go home. But this time, since I am the one that

> admitted him to the nh, there was no Medicare for

> therapy involved.........Jan

>

>

> adhd5464 wrote:

> Yep! You understand it completely! We weren't

> fully aware of all the

> in's and out's and we had Millie transported by

> ambulance after 2 cop

> cars, a fire truck and an ambulance were all parked

> in our yard.

>

> Her psychiatrist ended up calling the sheriff and

> insisted that if

> the ambulance would not take her, the deputy was to

> deliver Millie to

> the hospital himself in the squad car.

>

> Medics didn't want to take her because she knew she

> was in her yard,

> the day of the week, and her name! This was the day

> she came after

> us with a board and was threatening to kill all of

> us, and the

> bastard dogs.

>

> Had we tried to transport, she could have easily

> broken a wrist, hip,

> or arm if we tried to force her into the car.

>

> Other than that, Mrs.Lincoln, how did you enjoy the

> play?

>

> Carol

>

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> > > When Millie had a UTI and we needed some

> respite,

> > > they put Millie in a nursing home for several

> weeks

> > > to build her back up, but inside of three weeks

> they

> > > could not find enough wrong with her to allow

> her to

> > > stay and still get paid by Medicare. They pretty

> > > much said she could not stay unless she were

> > > bedbound.

> > >

> > > LewyBody was not enough of a dx to allow her to

> > > stay. Incontinence, might have been enough, but

> not

>

=== message truncated ===

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Looking for last minute shopping deals?

Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

Welcome to LBDcaregivers.

[Guest guest]

emma -- sooooo happy to hear of a plan -- hope it works well!!!

xo

anna

Re: When do you start thinking about a NH? Carol/June.

Hi all,

Sorry I haven't been responding much the last day or

two. I HAVE been reading all of your posts and advice

but I just didn't have anything good to say and was

starting to feel like I abuse all of your niceness

with my whining. ;-)

We have at least a temporary solution now, after a

fashion. I will be physically here 7am-3pm Sunday

thru Friday and will be on-call (as usual) the rest of

the time, an aid will be here 7:30am-2pm on Saturdays,

and that same aid will start doing overnights 11pm-7am

Sunday thru Thursday so Bob and I can sleep without

one ear open.

Mom and I talked about this when she came over on

Sunday to snipe at me but apparently we were having 2

different conversations. When I got down to business

making phone calls yesterday and got all of this set

up she got angry at me again because apparently I

wasn't doing what she wanted me to. I got a lot of

" someone to stay FIVE nights?? Thats too expensive!

Why would you do that? What about X, Y, Z??!! " All

stuff we had already discussed! Yes, an aid that much

is not cheap but its not like Grandma is destitute!

The woman has $25,000 in ONE checking account alone!

That doesn't take in her several savings accounts and

all her investments. AND the more we search the more

bank accounts we have found that she never told anyone

about. I don't think she's a millionaire but its

looking like she's damn close and there os still more

coming INTO her checking account each month than is

getting spent. I think we're doing ok with the money.

Not that I want to spend all her money away but if

thats what it takes to keep her at home like my mom is

so vehement about than thats what it takes! A few

hours after all this I got an email she sent to my

uncles filling them in on things and of course she

made it sound like it was all her idea and she did all

the work to make it happen and she is SOOOOOOOOOO

exhausted and stressed out. Cute how she jumps all

over me initially then realizes what I did was the

right thing and takes all the credit.

Jan, you are right that my mother " taking care " of my

step-dad doesn't involve all that much actual care.

The only " more work " than usual factor with him is

that he is on a low bacteria diet so they have to get

a little creative with the grocery shopping and he

can't eat leftovers if they've been around more than

24 hours so there has to be a " real " cooked dinner

every night. Otherwise he is pretty capable of taking

care of himself and except for a minor bit of

" chemo-brain " he is mentally very capable. Mostly

that just seems to effect his reading. He can't focus

enough to read a book so he watches a lot of TV

instead. He also can't leave the house to go out into

the big germy world just yet. So mostly her care of

him is just her worrying.

I need to get over my own need to protect her. She

doesn't handle emotional stress well and starts doing

stupid things (like drinking) when she has too much to

deal with. Thats why I am where I am. Having had to

" take care " of alcoholic parents when I was young

turned me into the caregiver I am and I can't seem to

shake that role when it comes to her. And now she

expects it of me.

Sorry I don't have more good things to say. I'm so

glad that I can keep telling all of you all of this

and I know you don't think I'm exaggerating or being

dramatic like my family seems to. I wish I could make

them understand they way you all do. But I suppose

the only way for me to do that would be for me to

leave and MAKE them try to do what I do. ;-)

Emma

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

Be a better friend, newshound, and

know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile. yahoo.com/

;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Looking for last minute shopping deals?

Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

[Guest guest]

So, then if they are paying for his meds, he doesn't

have to join the Medicare D, right? Although, if he

is on Medicaid, that would pay all his meds, too.

I was curious why Kaiser is his primary carrier? Was

that insurance through his workplace and could

continue after he retired? I took early retirement

from my place of work (at 62), and was able to keep

the school district insurance until 65, when they make

you go to Medicare as primary, and then you can pick

up their insurance (BCBS) as the secondary or select

any other company you want or use nothing at all for

secondary. It costs me somewhere around $200 plus a

month for Medicare and the secondary, but I haven't

paid any medical bills except deductibles since I went

on Medicare. Darrell didn't have to, either, and the

last time I figured up his bills, it was near $100,000

for medical care only - that didn't count anything for

his NH costs. I am still getting bills for some of

his expenses - they show paid, but boy, are they

really behind. And, I'm still getting a credit

balance on the NH bill, but they haven't paid it yet.

I guess I'll have to call them again. I'm sure they

will do everything they can not to pay it, but it sure

wasn't that way when I owed them.

Oh, the medical system!!! And, I'm afraid it will

just get worse as more and more people are on MCare

and MCaid.

--- Janet Colello wrote:

> Hi June,

> Yes, I am sure that Medicare did not pay for Jim's

> stay in the nh at first. From day one I paid out of

> pocket until Medicaid kicked in. You are right,

> Kaiser does pay for Jim's primary costs instead of

> Medicare/Medicaid. They pick up all of his

> medications too. It is 0 payments for Jim's

> medications and no copayments and 0 payments for

> hospital stays. That is why I was so confused why

> you and Carol were saying that Medicare rules played

> a part in getting your LO in a nh. The only time

> that happened for Jim is when Kaiser transported him

> from a hospital stay to a Convalescent Home for

> continued treatment of an IV. Kaiser has different

> rules, but they did the 3 day stay in the hospital

> with a sitter in Jim's room all three days, because

> I admitted him to ER when he was highly aggressive

> and requested to the Social Worker to admit him to a

> nh and then he had to stay the 3 days with a sitter

> in his room that was a Kaiser sitter to make sure he

> was not aggressive before

> admitting him to a nh.

> Unless someone is on Kaiser, I see I am misleading

> everyone.

> Thanks so much, now I see the difference. I'm glad

> you cleared that up.

> It was not difficult for me at all to admit Jim to

> the nh when I was ready.

> It is too bad it is not like that for everyone who

> wants to admit a LO to a nh when they feel they can

> no longer handle it. Because of Kaiser, it is also

> why I can have Jim home for the weekends. I hear

> from so many about there are 18 days a year that a

> LO can go home for a visit. It makes so much more

> sense to me that a LO can go home on weekends if it

> is possible for them to do so. I know it lifts Jim's

> spirits to be home and gives him something to look

> forward to each week. It seems so much more humane

> and the CNAs love it, it's one less person to take

> care of at the nh for them on those days. They are

> on overload. It works for me with the respite

> inbetween the days that Jim comes home. It's an all

> around winner. I was thinking this worked for

> everyone, but now I see the Insurance Coverage is

> different than most.

> Thanks June.

>

>

>

>

>

> June Christensen wrote:

> Jan, evidently Kaiser was paying his primary costs

> instead of Medicare. The Medicare rules I was

> writing

> about are federal, I'm sure, and you can't put them

> in

> a hospital with Medicare being the primary carrier

> without a very good reason, nor can they go into the

> NH on Medicare for the reasons I stated previously.

> If they do, improvement has to be made in the area

> in

> which they are put in the NH within the 20 days

> Medicare allows for 80 percent pay. If they don't

> improve, as my husband didn't, then you go on

> private

> pay or Medicaid if you have that established. His

> first 20 days were fully paid by Medicare and BCBS,

> our secondary carrier, but the next 80 days (of the

> 100 MC allows) were private pay with no secondary

> coverage because Medicare didn't approve. After I

> got

> him approved for Medicaid, they did make it

> retroactive, so I only had to pay the share we were

> assessed by Medicaid instead of the full $157 a day.

> So, I would guess that your insurance company

> coverage

> was the reason Medicare wasn't used. Apparently,

> they

> must have the same 3-day hospital rule as Medicare,

> though, if they kept him 3 days. Are you sure that

> Medicare didn't pay that?

>

>

> S--- Janet Colello wrote:

>

> > Maybe Kaiser does things differently. Jim was

> never

> > on Medicare before entering the nh. I had him

> > admitted by paramedics to ER, because he was

> highly

> > aggressive. They would ask him questions too and

> he

> > would pull the " Show Time " and answer things

> > appropriately, but the paramedics knew me from so

> > many visits and they would ask what I wanted to do

> > and I would say take him to ER. On the day I

> > decided to put Jim in a nh,I asked to speak to the

> > social worker at the hospital and told her I was

> > ready to put Jim in a nh and she gave me a list of

> > nhs that provided doctors from Kaiser in our area

> > and I visited all the nh and selected my top three

> > and the first two were booked and my third had a

> > room for him. They kept Jim with a sitter for 3

> days

> > in the hospital, because yes, 3 days in the

> hospital

> > is a rule, before they could transport him to a nh

> > and they had to watch that he was not aggressive

> > before sending him to the nh. He was never put on

> > Medicare and didn't receive any

> > therapy or any intervenous drugs. I had seen an

> > Elder Care Attorney for about a year and a half

> who

> > told me that nhs will not usually accept coming in

> > with Medicaid, they'd rather have pay out of

> pocket,

> > so I paid for the first few months and then I

> > applied for Medicaid and began on that when it

> > processed through.

> > Kaiser has even kept Jim over a night or two when

> > I needed respite when he was living at home. They

> > told me they could hold him an extra night before

> > releasing him. They were always very understanding

> > and actually everytime Jim was in ER they would

> ask

> > if I wanted to put Jim in a facility. Nothing to

> do

> > with Medicare, usually a UTI or some kind of

> > infection like Pneumonia that didn't require

> therapy

> > or an IV drug only antibiotics orally. They were

> > always willing to help me move him to a nh when I

> > was ready.

> > My Elder Care Attorney told me when I was ready

> > to put Jim in a nh, to follow the guidelines he

> gave

> > me and that is what I did and it all processed

> > through.

> > I have also been told by others when one is on

> > Medicaid that they can only go home 18 days out of

> > the year. Medicaid and the nh staff have all

> agreed

> > that Jim can go home every weekend.

> > Since I am the one that admitted Jim to the nh, I

> > know he was not on Medicare. I would have loved if

> > he could have received physical therapy, since he

> > was losing his walking abilities at the nh.

> > There was a time several years back that Jim was

> > in the hospital for two weeks and they transported

> > him to a Convalescent Home for another two weeks

> and

> > that was on Medicare, because he needed continued

> > care with an IV. I was not ready to leave him

> there

> > at the time and when he was well he was released

> to

> > go home. But this time, since I am the one that

> > admitted him to the nh, there was no Medicare for

> > therapy involved.........Jan

> >

> >

> > adhd5464 wrote:

> > Yep! You understand it completely! We weren't

> > fully aware of all the

> > in's and out's and we had Millie transported by

> > ambulance after 2 cop

> > cars, a fire truck and an ambulance were all

> parked

> > in our yard.

> >

> > Her psychiatrist ended up calling the sheriff and

> > insisted that if

> > the ambulance would not take her, the deputy was

> to

> > deliver Millie to

> > the hospital himself in the squad car.

> >

> > Medics didn't want to take her because she knew

> she

> > was in her yard,

> > the day of the week, and her name! This was the

> day

> > she came after

> > us with a board and was threatening to kill all of

> > us, and the

> > bastard dogs.

> >

> > Had we tried to transport, she could have easily

> > broken a wrist, hip,

> > or arm if we tried to force her into the car.

> >

> > Other than that, Mrs.Lincoln, how did you enjoy

> the

> > play?

> >

> > Carol

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

=== message truncated ===

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.

http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

[Guest guest]

<snip> We have at least a temporary solution now, after a

> fashion. I will be physically here 7am-3pm Sunday

> thru Friday and will be on-call (as usual) the rest of

> the time, an aid will be here 7:30am-2pm on Saturdays,

> and that same aid will start doing overnights 11pm-7am

> Sunday thru Thursday so Bob and I can sleep without

> one ear open. <snip>

Wonderful news! So glad to hear that you're getting some help that you

need!!

[Guest guest]

Carol, we had so many episodes like what you

described, mom even grunted at the cats and was

calling them pigs.

She also, put pillows and rugs at the botom of all the

bedroom doors and then tried to start the house on

fire " to stop the government from taking it and to

stop the little people that live in the basement from

hurting us " . She also stood in a darkened corner one

night and when my brother walked through the house to

check on her, she tried to hit him over the head with

(of all things) a statue of St ! She threw

a pillow right in front of his feet as he walked by to

trip him.

That was NOT my mom, she was in a whole other place

then - we had no idea who this person was and had the

fire and police at the house a number of times.

I do have a question about her being on private pay

now in the NH, we are paying her real estate taxes out

of her accounts, but that is a a frozen rate and a

senior discount. I am afraid that we need to come

forward and possibly sell the house now. Does anyone

know? I have an appointment with a geriatric atty

next Tuesday - any suggestions on how I can prepare

with the proper questions?

Thanks everyone and God Bless.

-

Daughter of Clarice

LYB & TTFN!

-Cyn'

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Be a better friend, newshound, and

know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ