RE: (chart) Impacts and Deficits in NT/ASD Relationships

[Guest guest]

Thanks for posting this CJ. It may prove useful when I am trying to explain to my hubby what is going on and why I am feeling sad/frustrated, etc. This is very logical and concise so it would be easier for him to follow than me blathering on using emotional terms. Cheers,Deb From: aspires-relationships [mailto:aspires-relationships ] On Behalf Of CJSent: April-24-12 10:32 PMTo: shahmeran@...Subject: (chart) Impacts and Deficits in NT/ASD Relationships I recently came across this chart, and thought it might be useful to those who suffer from PTSD-like symptoms in their relationships with ASDs.I intentionally did not use the term " NT " because some ASD folks also experience these symptoms in relationships with ASD folks whose relationship skills are severely challenged.The informal syndromes referred to in the chart are not DSM sanctioned conditions, just labels used to describe a particular constellation of symptoms from which relationship partners sometimes suffer. The labels merely make it easier to talk about the topic, in the same way that some people use terms like " Cassandra " to describe a particular relationship phenomenon.The point being -- No matter how informal and unsanctioned by the APA such labels might be, the legitimacy of the experiences of those who suffer should not be dismissed.http://faaas.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Impacts-and-Deficits-in-NT-ASD-Relationships.pdfEnjoy (or not),~CJ

[Guest guest]

Thanks

for posting this CJ. It may prove useful when I am trying to

explain to my hubby what is going on and why I am feeling

sad/frustrated, etc. This is very logical and concise so it

would be easier for him to follow than me blathering on

using emotional terms.

Thanks, Deb. I'm glad it was useful to you. While the chart does

contain some generalities (as charts must in order to remain

concise), I found it useful in understanding how behaviors may be

perceived by others, regardless of one's intentions. Having been

married to a NT man who suffered from emotional deprivation due to

our mutual ignorance of (my) AS, I could totally relate.

I share a lot of links to resources within the AS community. Some I

agree with, some I don't. My objective is to get people thinking,

preferably beyond their comfort zones.

I recently shared this chart with another group for AS adults

(absolutely NO NTs allowed!) and found that the chart was extremely

triggering to this audience. At least for those who responded, as I

have no idea what the non-respondents thought.

The chart was met with the usual kneejerk "you must be anti-Aspie!"

and "who allowed NTs in this group anyway?" reactions from those who

regard any NT reference to Aspie social deficits as an 'attack'

against the entire AS community. Once the despised "Cassandra" and

"FAAAS" labels came out, minds slammed closed, making a discussion

of the pros/cons of the chart impossible.

Sigh.... I guess I need to be more careful about choosing my

audiences, huh?

Best,

~CJ

[Guest guest]

CJ,

Now that you're more attuned to what might trigger some of "us" to a broad-brush reaction to the chart -- which is pretty good, although I'm not surprised seeing that the Brits and the Auzzies are far ahead of us in their understanding of the clinical differences between and nuances varying levels of social communication [it used to be called speech pragmatics] -- how about continuing what you're doing, but adding a special caution to your audience, encouraging those who are in the reactive stages of self-identity to stifle their impulse to deny and denigrate those who bring discomfiting information, to hold their tongues until you're done out of courtesy to the rest of the audience?

Knee jerks don't always have a right to stop a conversation.

N. Meyer

-----Original Message----- From: CJ

I share a lot of links to resources within the AS community. Some I agree with, some I don't. My objective is to get people thinking, preferably beyond their comfort zones.I recently shared this chart with another group for AS adults (absolutely NO NTs allowed!) and found that the chart was extremely triggering to this audience. At least for those who responded, as I have no idea what the non-respondents thought.The chart was met with the usual kneejerk "you must be anti-Aspie!" and "who allowed NTs in this group anyway?" reactions from those who regard any NT reference to Aspie social deficits as an 'attack' against the entire AS community. Once the despised "Cassandra" and "FAAAS" labels came out, minds slammed closed, making a discussion of the pros/cons of the chart impossible.Sigh.... I guess I need to be more careful about choosing my audiences, huh? ;)Best,~CJ

[Guest guest]

I can understand an AS audience being defensive about this sort of thing. Just so you know my husband quite liked it. Although he found having the first column confusing and sort of pointless or at the very least in the wrong place. Which led us to an interesting conversation about our different perspectives. So thanks again,Deb From: aspires-relationships [mailto:aspires-relationships ] On Behalf Of CJSent: April-30-12 10:46 PMTo: aspires-relationships Subject: Re: (chart) Impacts and Deficits in NT/ASD Relationships Thanks for posting this CJ. It may prove useful when I am trying to explain to my hubby what is going on and why I am feeling sad/frustrated, etc. This is very logical and concise so it would be easier for him to follow than me blathering on using emotional terms. Thanks, Deb. I'm glad it was useful to you. While the chart does contain some generalities (as charts must in order to remain concise), I found it useful in understanding how behaviors may be perceived by others, regardless of one's intentions. Having been married to a NT man who suffered from emotional deprivation due to our mutual ignorance of (my) AS, I could totally relate.I share a lot of links to resources within the AS community. Some I agree with, some I don't. My objective is to get people thinking, preferably beyond their comfort zones.I recently shared this chart with another group for AS adults (absolutely NO NTs allowed!) and found that the chart was extremely triggering to this audience. At least for those who responded, as I have no idea what the non-respondents thought.The chart was met with the usual kneejerk " you must be anti-Aspie! " and " who allowed NTs in this group anyway? " reactions from those who regard any NT reference to Aspie social deficits as an 'attack' against the entire AS community. Once the despised " Cassandra " and " FAAAS " labels came out, minds slammed closed, making a discussion of the pros/cons of the chart impossible.Sigh.... I guess I need to be more careful about choosing my audiences, huh? ;)Best,~CJ

[Guest guest]

 

Now that you're more attuned to what might trigger some of "us"

to a broad-brush reaction to the chart -- which is pretty good,

although I'm not surprised seeing that the Brits and the Auzzies

are far ahead of us in their understanding of the clinical

differences between and nuances varying levels of social

communication [it used to be called speech pragmatics] -- how

about continuing what you're doing, but adding a special caution

to your audience, encouraging those who are in the reactive

stages of self-identity to stifle their impulse to deny and

denigrate those who bring discomfiting information, to hold

their tongues until you're done out of courtesy to the rest of

the audience?

Knee jerks don't always have a right to stop a conversation.

Oh, ... if only it was that easy.  Sigh....

I've tried that approach.  And while it works with the more rational

folks, the noisy few who tend to see NT Aspie-blaming bullies under

every rock seem to be unreachable.  Once their amygdala fires in

response to a perceived 'attack', there seems to be no reasoning

with them.  They are off to the races, critical thinking skills

abandoned in the rear view mirror.

In the situation to which I referred, several noisy folks continued

to deny and denigrate the experiences of anyone who found value in

this so-called Aspie-hating chart, all the while claiming that their

own experiences had been denigrated and denied.  Talk about a double

standard.

I tried to unravel any miscommunications by emphasizing that I saw

the value of the chart in shades of gray and that it had been

helpful to me in my own relationships with both NT and AS partners. 

In response, I was accused of assuming that they were not able to

see the world in shades of gray!  The more "I" statements I made,

the more assumptions of intended insult I provoked.

Finally, I removed myself from the discussion, as there was no point

in continuing.  Once the CADD and FAAAS labels were out of the

bottle, minds were already made up, and that was that.  Sad really,

as all the defensiveness and name-calling effectively shut down the

discussion for everyone, as others felt too intimidated to offer

their well-reasoned input.

It's amazing what uproar 3 (mostly 2) defensive individuals can

provoke, especially when they all feel compelled to get in the last

word.  Sigh.

Best,

~CJ

[Guest guest]

CJ,

Take heart. For every knee jerk reaction there's probably at least 50 more who

are nodding in silent agreement. My philosophy has always been if the shoe fits,

wear it, and if not, then don't buy the shoe. But there will always be those who

don't even want you to see the shoe. Ignore 'em. Thanks for sharing the

information you do.

- Helen

> > Knee jerks don't always have a right to stop a conversation.

<snipped>

> Oh, ... if only it was that easy. Sigh....

<snipped>

[Guest guest]

> CJ,

> Take heart. For every knee jerk reaction there's probably at least 50 more who

are nodding in silent agreement. My philosophy has always been if the shoe fits,

wear it, and if not, then don't buy the shoe. But there will always be those who

don't even want you to see the shoe. Ignore 'em. Thanks for sharing the

information you do.

> - Helen

>

Oh, Helen... thank you for the validation. And what you say about the

shoe is very wise.

I do understand that most people don't reply to posts. They mostly

read, either because they don't have the time to respond, they don't

feel strongly either way about the topic, or what they think has already

been said by others.

As I said earlier, I just need to select my audiences more carefully.

It can be hard in the AS community, as there are so many people who feel

persecuted by one thing or another. In advocating for themselves, some

have become very defensive and often see enemies lurking under every

bush. This reactionary minority doesn't seem to understand how to

disagree without being disagreeable themselves.

And because most groups don't have hands-on leadership that nips these

sort of problems in the bud, potentially great topics can get derailed

by a noisy few. This ultimately impacts the quality of groups, as

people either feel too intimidated to contribute, or they simply join

other groups where people are more likely to agree to disagree instead

of calling each other names.

Best,

~CJ